0:00

How

0:00

well do you really know the people in your life?

0:02

Do you think you know your spouse, so romantic

0:04

partner, your parents, siblings,

0:07

friends? We would like to think we

0:09

know almost everything about our friends and loved ones,

0:11

but everyone. No matter how transparent they

0:13

may appear, they almost always seem to

0:15

keep at least some part of themselves private.

0:18

Maybe something real trivial. Real small. Maybe

0:20

they spend a bit more shopping than they let on.

0:23

Maybe while claiming to be on a diet, they

0:25

cheat a bit more than let anyone know about.

0:27

Maybe they get a little Botox and don't tell anyone

0:29

or a little vitamin t, testosterone,

0:32

if you don't know, but solely credit their workout

0:34

habits for their muscle gains. Maybe they sneak

0:36

in a little porn or little more porn than they

0:38

admit to or they have a pill habit

0:40

they don't tell anyone about or maybe something

0:43

a bit bigger like

0:43

an affair. Or

0:45

numerous affairs, or maybe they steal

0:47

from work or shoplift when they're not at work or

0:49

hide money from their spouse and some kind of secret

0:51

account, or perhaps it's a lot bigger

0:53

Maybe they are living an entirely separate

0:56

life with an entirely separate family lived

0:58

out under a totally different name,

1:00

or maybe They

1:01

fucking kill people. A

1:03

lot of people. Julie Baimeister

1:05

thought she knew her husband, Herb. At least

1:07

that's what she claimed. You'd think she would.

1:09

They were married almost twenty five years. As

1:12

far as Julie was concerned, her husband was a family

1:14

man, a devoted father and hard worker,

1:16

Sure there were a few things that were off about

1:18

him, get his quirks, maybe more than

1:20

most, and their marriage had problems

1:23

for sure more than most. But I Herb

1:25

was eccentric. Always was. He'd exhibited

1:28

strange behavior throughout his life.

1:30

There was that time he thought it would be funny

1:32

to put a dead crow on his teacher's desk. But

1:34

no one else agreed. Part of series

1:36

of incidents that would cause Herb School to pressure

1:38

his parents to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist,

1:40

which they did. And there was a time when

1:42

Herb would be committed to a psychiatric hospital

1:44

for two months by his father early in his marriage,

1:47

but would never tell Julie why. And

1:49

the time where he likely urinated

1:51

on his boss's desk. Perhaps

1:53

the strangest incident of all Herb told Julie and

1:55

the kids that some human bones, his son found in

1:57

their yard, including a human skull with

1:59

the remains of a cadaver once used by his

2:02

anesthesiologist father. But

2:04

then I wouldn't tell them why he had just, you

2:06

know, apparently dumped them out in the lawn

2:08

under a tree. And there was Julie

2:10

and Herb's sex life or lack of

2:12

a sex life. They rarely had any

2:14

romantic intimacy Like she could count a number

2:16

of times the two of them had sex on

2:18

two hands barely needing the second

2:20

hand during their almost twenty five

2:22

years of marriage. And Herb often stayed

2:24

home alone for long periods of time

2:26

while she and their children went on vacation. Looking

2:29

back, there was actually a lot of red flags. Something

2:31

was off with her bowmeister. But

2:33

Julie didn't want to see them. How

2:35

many of us are guilty of the exact same thing?

2:37

Overlooking what we don't want to accept, what

2:39

we don't want to find out. Despite all the

2:41

signs that Herbert was more than a

2:43

little different, his wife Julie said that she was

2:45

still extremely shocked and devastated when she

2:47

learned her husband was suspected of the murders

2:49

of several gay men in Indianapolis. How

2:52

could the man she knew was a loving and gentle

2:54

father possibly be a killer?

2:56

Although never convicted of any murders, herbaumizer

2:59

is to expect of killing over thirty

3:01

poison men. Human bones are still

3:03

turning up on his former property today over

3:05

twenty five years after his death. Herb

3:07

is believed to be responsible not just for the

3:09

piles and piles of bones found on his estate, but

3:11

also for the strangulation of numerous additional

3:14

men and boys found near Interstate seventy

3:16

between Indiana and Ohio. We'll

3:18

never know for sure how many people herb killed

3:20

or why he killed his victims because he

3:22

was never put on trial. Her would end

3:24

his own life before he could ever face justice.

3:27

Who the hell was her Baummeister? This

3:29

week, we'll discuss the life and suspected crimes

3:31

of Herb The bodies found on Fox

3:34

hollow farm, and in a little different twist

3:36

than normal, we'll look into some claims

3:38

that all the murders her very likely committed

3:40

at Fox hollow farm left

3:42

his former property extremely haunted.

3:45

Paranormal witness on sci fi and ghost adventures

3:47

on Discovery Plus, just a few of the shows

3:49

that have sent teams of ghosthunters to invest to gate

3:51

some supposed sightings of and encounters with

3:54

some really disturbing entities. All

3:56

this and more on today's blend of true crime

3:58

and the supernatural edition.

3:59

Of

4:01

Time Suck. This

4:02

is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to

4:04

Time Suck.

4:07

You're listening. To time.

4:09

So

4:18

Happy Monday, meet, Zach. Welcome to

4:20

the cult of curious. Welcome back.

4:22

I'm theiacom as a Suck master, CDA

4:25

prophet. Killer Christ wire,

4:27

and you are listening to Time Suck. Hale

4:29

Nimrod, Hale Saffina, praise good boy bojangles

4:31

and help sing away these gray dreary

4:34

Northwest winter days. Triple m.

4:37

Taping this episode just before my Minneapolis stand

4:39

up special taping on December tenth. Thanks

4:41

to everyone for quickly scooping up to just

4:43

release tickets. Man, I

4:45

am hoping I feel good about that recording by

4:47

the time this episode drops. Don't wanna feel

4:49

at least ninety percent recovered from the flu.

4:51

Feeling eighty five percent back today.

4:53

Sorry for my shitty voice last week. I'm I'm hopeful

4:55

it'll hold up today. Just added

4:57

a couple of things real quick. Real quick, actually, then we'll

4:59

jump right in. Just added two shows to the Bernadette

5:02

down, twenty twenty three theater tour, added

5:04

second shows in Sacramento on February tenth

5:06

in Philadelphia on March twenty fifth. So

5:08

fun. More meet and greet packages

5:10

available now in those markets. Tickets should be

5:12

on sale by the time you hear this. You can go to

5:14

dankamas dot tv for any and all tour tickets.

5:17

No new merch for the rest of December trying to move

5:19

what we already have because we have so much good

5:21

stuff. Bad magic merch dot com if you

5:23

haven't been there or haven't

5:24

been there recently. And now

5:25

before we jump into today's story, just a

5:27

quick update on our December charity, which was

5:30

the bad magic giving tree so thankful.

5:32

We were able to help a little over fifty families

5:34

have a special holiday season. The

5:36

Patreon donation towards the giving tree totaled

5:38

fourteen thousand five hundred and thirteen dollars, bunch of

5:40

you added another ten thousand thirty four

5:42

dollars, then Lynch and I kicked in an extra

5:45

thirteen thousand to make sure that fifty three

5:47

families. Of a hundred and twenty five

5:49

total kids will have a magical holiday

5:51

season. So thank you and hale

5:53

fucking nimrut. Also

5:55

able to donate another sixteen hundred twelve dollars

5:57

to our scholarships fund, which will be activated

5:59

this next year. So good shit. A

6:01

lot of good shit. And now let's get

6:03

into the batship of Herbert Baummeister,

6:06

a lesser known but possibly incredibly

6:09

prolific. American serial

6:11

killer.

6:16

Herbert Richard

6:18

Baumeister. Oh, fuck yeah.

6:20

Getting today's dick out of the way, right out of the

6:22

gate, but today's episode. Was

6:25

a businessman, man suspected

6:27

serial killer were supposed to say suspected

6:30

because herb died suicide before he

6:32

was found guilty of any murders. But

6:35

this motherfucker did it. He was for

6:37

sure a serial. Can I get the fuck out of here? The only

6:39

question is how many people he killed before he took

6:41

himself out? At the time of

6:43

his death, old Herbig Dick Meister lived

6:45

in Westfield Indiana and outer northern

6:47

suburb of Indianapolis. While around fifty

6:49

thousand people live in the rapidly growing area

6:51

now, only between three and four thousand

6:54

lived there when Herb was burying bodies

6:56

out in his large rural property where

6:58

his kids played. Herbert was

7:00

under investigation for the disappearances of numerous

7:02

men in the early nineties when he died. A good portion of

7:04

his victims were last seen at various gay bars he

7:06

frequented in downtown Indianapolis

7:09

on the sly his double life. Most

7:11

of the rest were sex workers, all were

7:13

men and boys. The police have now discovered

7:15

the remains of at least twenty five

7:17

people on the Baumaister property, Fox

7:19

Sullivan. Only eight

7:21

have been positively identified so far.

7:24

Been challenging to identify any of them

7:26

herb certainly hasn't helped. On

7:28

July third nineteen ninety six, forty nine year

7:30

old Herb Baumeister took a lot of secrets to

7:32

his grave when he shot himself in the head in

7:35

Pinery provincial Park, Grand

7:37

Bend, Ontario, and Canada after fleeing being

7:39

investigated here in the states. Her

7:41

left behind a suicide note where he explained that he was

7:43

ending his life because of his failed marriage, and

7:45

his failed business. Never confessed

7:47

to any of the murders. Only after his death

7:49

was heard pretty positively linked to not just

7:51

the victims whose bodies turned up on his property.

7:53

But also a a different series of murders

7:56

that occurred along interstate seventy to nineteen

7:58

eighties and early nineties. From

8:00

nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety one, the bodies twelve

8:02

men were found in Indiana and Western Ohio,

8:05

victims dumped in rural areas, most of

8:07

them found naked or undressed to

8:09

some degree and had been strangled.

8:11

All went missing from within a few blocks of an

8:13

area frequented by gays in Indianapolis. Nine

8:16

of these men thought to be connected to Herb.

8:18

One eyewitness identified her bowelmeister as the man

8:21

who left a bar in nineteen eighty three with victim

8:23

Michael Riley. Riley found strangled

8:25

and unclothes similar to many of

8:27

the other expected Dick Meister,

8:29

i seventy strangler victims. Very

8:32

suspiciously, these murders stopped within

8:34

months, within weeks, of her

8:36

buying the sprawling eighteen acre Fox

8:38

Sullivan property in Westfield. Sure

8:40

seems like as soon as Herb had the space to

8:42

start hiding bodies on his own property.

8:44

Instead of leaving them, in various

8:46

places off of the interstate, he did

8:48

exactly that. So

8:50

who was her bowmeister? For those,

8:52

he didn't. Very likely

8:54

murder. Courtney Hardwick from in

8:56

magazine writes. His community,

8:58

Herb Baumeister, was a straight laced business

9:00

owning family man living on his eighteen acre

9:02

estate, Fox Hollow Farms, in

9:04

Westfield, Indiana. He married his wife,

9:06

Julie, right out of college, and

9:08

they had three kids together. But there was

9:10

another side to him he kept hidden. Balmeister

9:13

would often visit gay bars in Indianapolis about

9:15

a forty minute drive from where he lived.

9:17

His wife, Julie Balmeister, would say that Herb

9:19

was an upstanding citizen and a good father,

9:21

although he was distant. And

9:23

she is downplaying how fucking weird he

9:25

was when she says that. Julie said she

9:27

didn't know that her was involved in the gay

9:30

nightlife scene. Indianapolis

9:32

monthly wrote in their September two

9:34

thousand two edition. Balmeister

9:36

contemplates that maybe she was the first victim

9:38

in her husband's sinister plan. Maybe he

9:40

selected her as the perfect wife, a naive

9:42

Indiana girl who still believed in the

9:44

notion that you grow up, fall in love and

9:46

live happily ever after. She

9:48

and the children were the model citizens Herb needed to

9:50

hide behind while living his secret life and committing

9:52

what was nearly the perfect crime

9:54

again and again

9:56

and again.

9:57

Julie certainly was naive

10:00

as you will soon find out. Now

10:02

if you wanna get a feel for your

10:04

self or who Herb was, he randomly was interviewed

10:06

by local news crew from Wish

10:08

TV in Indianapolis in his updated

10:10

clip or I'm sorry, not updated, undated.

10:13

Undated clip. Taking some time during the

10:15

last few years of Herb's life, he talks about a dead

10:17

raccoon along the road near his home.

10:19

Local residents were upset about the raccoon

10:21

being painted over by a county paint truck.

10:23

Not moved aside like it should have

10:25

been. Well, let's let's actually

10:27

listen to herb so

10:29

we can hear this killer's

10:31

voice but ride by striping,

10:33

you know, or whatever. Her

10:36

bowmeister of caramel saw it

10:38

all. I said to my son, there's gonna

10:40

hit that

10:40

raccoon with this brake gun and sure enough.

10:42

They just strived right over its face and neck. You

10:44

know, it didn't even move, but, you know, no effort

10:46

to, you know, get it out of the way. To

10:49

have never pulled right with me, so I

10:51

took a shot of the thing. A raccoon

10:53

which met its demise on the

10:55

yellow line became one with

10:57

the paint. The raccoon

10:59

has since been removed. This

11:01

is all that's left. This was

11:04

just, you know, a a painter should have

11:06

had a chalk light drawn around his career

11:08

by state officials. There was no excuse for

11:10

that. I mean, the poor thing deserved better faith

11:12

than that. So, I

11:13

mean, he seems exceptionally normal to

11:15

me here. Pleasant even.

11:18

Even knowing what I know about him and watching

11:20

that clip, he seems so fucking likable.

11:22

Can use my neighbor with his, you know, his personality,

11:25

he's displaying there. I'd like

11:27

him. I think it was pretty funny that he

11:29

took a poll. Alright? Of that dead

11:31

raccoon. I watched this clip over

11:33

and over repeating the beginning,

11:35

especially studying his eyes, his facial

11:37

expressions, vocal inflections,

11:39

just looking for some kind of moment of, like,

11:41

right

11:42

there, that's

11:43

where the evil was. You you can see it.

11:45

You

11:45

can hear it. No, you

11:47

can't.

11:47

To mean nothing about him in this

11:50

clip seems off for unusual. And by

11:52

the time he recorded that clip, he likely

11:54

had killed over two dozen

11:55

men. That's so fucking scary. Like, we

11:57

really don't know who these

11:59

monsters are. We we wanna tell ourselves

12:01

that if we listen to enough podcasts

12:03

or read enough books and watch enough

12:05

documentaries about these motherfuckers that,

12:07

you know, we can kind of like familiarize

12:09

ourselves with a little red flags,

12:11

little little ticks that would that would, you know,

12:13

reveal their natures to us. But,

12:16

you know, a quick glance

12:18

with some of these bastards, there's just

12:20

there's just no warning signs. I

12:22

don't think at all.

12:24

After he died, another Wish TV reporter spoke

12:26

with Randy Hartley. A former

12:28

coworker of hers from his days at the Bureau of Motor

12:30

Vehicles, one of the many people prized shocked to find

12:32

out he was a serial killer. Harley felt

12:34

like he was just a regular dude. Said he was

12:36

the he was just a major prankster. And

12:38

with that in mind, he just made anything for

12:40

a laugh. He would do. But on the other side, he

12:42

was still pretty compassionate too. He didn't wanna

12:44

take him too far, you know, or he didn't wanna take

12:46

things too far to extremes to hurt anybody.

12:48

Again, just, you know, it seemed like a like a

12:50

fun dude to hang with. Alan

12:52

Fishburne, another coworker, former

12:54

coworker interviewed said I was shocked because no one

12:56

had heard for the past fifteen, sixteen years.

12:58

I I found him, you know, as a spontaneous

13:01

doing any type of thing person within

13:03

certain reasons. Even the cops were looking

13:05

into him for some murders right at the end of his life, no one in the

13:07

general public outside of one guy who led the police

13:09

to Herb and a private investigator he spoke

13:11

with seemed to think this guy had anything to

13:13

do with these murders. Part of what helped

13:15

him avoid public scrutiny was

13:17

the fact that the killings he committed got

13:19

almost no press. Because the

13:21

murder victims were young gay men being

13:23

killed in conservative area in the nineties. They

13:25

just didn't, I don't think, on some of

13:27

them in the eighties, receive as much media

13:29

attention or sympathy as, you know, say

13:31

women would have likely received. Joseph

13:34

Garringer Writing for Crime Library dot com in a

13:36

post titled Her Baumeister

13:38

Skeletons Beyond The Closet

13:39

Speaks to the same. During the

13:41

first several years of the nineteen nineties, these

13:43

citizens in and around Indianapolis, Indiana might

13:46

have stumbled on a very brief article

13:48

in the local newspapers about how certain

13:50

young men were disappearing from the streets of their

13:52

town never to be seen again. In each

13:54

case, the episodes mirrored each other. Only

13:56

the names changed. But the

13:58

articles grew no larger nor

13:59

attracted much attention. All the prodigal

14:02

sons were gay or suspected of lenient in

14:04

that sexual direction Being gay, they were

14:06

a a coming and yet steadily

14:08

outcast breed of citizens in a very conservative

14:10

bible belt, even the officials

14:12

remained lethargic. Common belief was that the

14:14

victims might simply have gone on to other

14:16

larger more glitzy towns like San Francisco or New

14:18

York, where homosexuality was not

14:20

considered way word at all. only

14:22

victims here thought the police were the

14:24

families these young men abandoned without a

14:26

goodbye. First person to

14:28

suspect, that the missing men were actually

14:30

murdered was a private detective

14:33

named Virgil Vandegrift. Virgil

14:35

seems to have a long since retired now, you get

14:37

a website all in investigations

14:40

dot com. That's no longer

14:42

up and working. Great

14:44

PI name. By the way, you kidding

14:46

me, Virgil Van degrift. Name's

14:49

Virgil Van degrift. Someone who

14:51

doesn't want to be found needs finding. If

14:53

there's a secret that needs to be told,

14:56

darkness, you want brought out into the

14:58

light. Or you have a name that needs a

15:00

face. Well friend, you've come to the

15:02

right place. Virgil Vandegrift

15:04

is all in. Virgil

15:07

was the first investigator to think Balmeister

15:09

was a serial He told Joseph Gerenger he fit

15:11

all the components of a serial killer among them

15:13

the ability to keep his crimes and control and

15:15

silent under an everyday nonchalance.

15:18

was a business owner who store many towns

15:20

people frequented. My own office was only

15:22

a mile and a half away from his place. I

15:24

never met him from what I understand. He wasn't the type

15:26

of guy you'd at first suspect of being a sexual

15:28

psychopath. The danger

15:30

signals are always there in people of

15:32

Valmeister's caliber, trouble is the

15:34

public ignores them. In

15:37

Balmeister's case, even his wife ignored them,

15:40

lethargy. It's the serial

15:42

killer's greatest strength. I

15:44

like Virgil's last statement there. Right? Lethargy, it's

15:46

a serial killer's greatest strength. Man,

15:48

how many people keep getting away with stuff like

15:50

that? Because most of us don't wanna take the time to

15:52

really look into them. Right? Even when they do give us some red

15:54

flags. Like, let's say you don't have any concrete proof

15:56

that your partner is a fucking serial killer, but you do

15:58

have an inkling that something

15:59

isn't right. That certain

16:00

signs do seem to maybe

16:03

point to them possibly

16:05

being the killer, but also you

16:07

love them and your life was intertwined with

16:09

them. Really fuck up your whole world if

16:11

they truly were a serial killer, which doesn't give

16:13

you a lot of incentive to put a lot of

16:15

work into looking into that. Because once you

16:17

see it, you can't unsee it. But if you just

16:19

don't look, then if they get caught later, you

16:21

can kind of give yourself a pass morally and

16:23

still feel or at least vain, feeling

16:25

being shocked. And you need to say

16:27

a coworker or a neighbor or something seems like

16:29

they they might be up to something. So many of us are

16:31

just so damn busy. Or at least we tell

16:33

ourselves we're too busy to deal with it. Right? Are you really

16:35

gonna take the time to put in the work scene if they might

16:37

truly be a serial killer, or you're gonna go

16:39

back to watching your TV show or reading your book

16:41

or working your second job, raising your kids,

16:43

etcetera. Right? I don't I don't really have

16:45

much background context

16:47

other than what I've just said now. I feel like I need to

16:49

lay out before we get into the timeline.

16:52

It was the eighties and early nineties. It

16:54

was Indianapolis. plus Life

16:56

was pretty

16:57

normal, pretty good in

16:58

India actually. Reggie Miller

17:00

was light and shit up from behind the three point

17:02

line for the Pacers and annoying the fuck out of most other

17:04

NBA all stars with its constant

17:06

obnoxious trash talk. By leveraging

17:08

Miller. The

17:09

big circle center mall was being built downtown

17:11

local radio station Bob and Tom.

17:13

We're cementing themselves as one of America's most beloved morning

17:15

shows soon to be syndicated around the nation.

17:18

The Baltimore cults had just moved to Indy

17:20

and brought NFL life to Indiana,

17:22

and a feeling that Indianapolis was truly a

17:24

major American city. Holefame

17:26

running back. Eric Dickerson was one of the best

17:28

backs of all time earning three of his

17:31

probles, trips to the probles, when

17:33

when he was in Indy. And of course, the Indy five

17:35

hundred builders, the greatest spectacle in racing, was

17:37

being held every year as it has been since

17:39

nineteen eleven. Vroom vroom

17:41

motherfucker. After years of planning and construction,

17:43

the fifty two story bank one center

17:45

opened in September of nineteen ninety, given

17:47

the city a much bigger cosmopolitan feel,

17:49

In nineteen ninety, Indianapolis hosted arguably the best

17:52

concert lineup in America that year at

17:54

the Who's Your Dome on April

17:56

seventh, Farm Aid four. Guns

17:57

and Roses, Bonny Rake, John Cooper Mellon

17:59

Camp, Garth Brooks, Allen Jackson, Eldon

18:02

John, William Nelson, Crosby stills,

18:04

National Young, Bruce Hornsby,

18:06

John Denver, analysts goes on and

18:08

on. Life was good. The area was

18:10

growing. The economy was

18:12

booming. The crimes of Herbalbalances

18:14

did not lead to the city or even

18:16

any of its many neighborhoods and to

18:18

live in fear. His crimes were not even

18:20

front page news until after he

18:22

died. They had largely, sadly, gone unnoticed,

18:24

but we're gonna notice them today. Let's

18:26

uncover these crimes and the life of her

18:28

bowmeister in today's time sack timeline

18:31

before digging into the haunted legacy

18:33

of Foxholder Farms after

18:35

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And now it's truly time

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suck time. Shrap

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on those boots

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soldier. We're marching down a

24:12

time suck timeline. Quick

24:16

note

24:18

on today's info, It's garbage.

24:20

You probably shouldn't listen to podcasts because you're not gonna be able to

24:22

rely on anything I fucking tell you.

24:24

No. That's not true. No.dates

24:26

from one source to the next are very inconsistent

24:28

with all dirty Dick Meister's

24:30

dirty deeds. We went with the dates that were

24:32

the most consistent across numerous sources.

24:35

Or the most recent. Some of the information regarding his victims

24:37

also varied quite a bit, especially since he was

24:39

never tried, you know, in court. Again, we went

24:41

with the info that seemed the most reliable

24:44

consistent for the body count totals. You'll

24:46

notice that the totals I give

24:48

will differ from most sources on

24:50

the Internet. Well, I they're different because

24:52

there's been a string of new local news

24:54

articles and local news reports coming out of

24:56

Indianapolis just this past week

24:58

when still more remains.

25:00

Were uncovered on his old property. And the very recently

25:02

updated totals they presented seem like the most

25:04

accurate information to me. And that's what I'm that's what

25:06

I'm sharing with you. So here we

25:09

go. Herbert Richard Baummeister.

25:12

Born April seventh nineteen forty seven, all

25:14

the sources seemed to agree on that.

25:16

According to Geringer's article, Herbert was born

25:18

in the but Parkington neighborhood of

25:20

Indianapolis? Indianapolis has a million

25:22

different neighborhoods, all named

25:24

neighborhoods. The neighborhood's name comes from a combination

25:26

of Butler from Butler University. Which has

25:28

its campus in the neighborhood and for the name of

25:30

the famous writer, Booth Tarkington,

25:32

who lived in the neighborhood for twenty three years in

25:34

his country estate and tell his death in nineteen

25:36

forty six. I'd actually never heard of

25:38

booth tarkington. But he

25:40

is one of the only four novelists to win the

25:42

Pulitzer prize for fiction more than once along

25:44

with William Faulkner, John updike,

25:46

and Colson Whitehead. I've heard of at least two of those guys.

25:48

He was best known for the Magnificent

25:50

Ambrisons and Alice Adams.

25:53

Didn't read him. His remains now rest in

25:55

the pretty bad ass look in Tarkington Jamieson

25:58

Mausoleum at Crown Hill cemetery

25:59

in Indianapolis. This

26:01

neighborhood began as a farming settlement in the eighteen forties near what

26:03

is now the intersection of thirty eighth Street and

26:05

Illinois Street called Mapleton.

26:08

Connected to India, a railway system in the in the

26:10

eighteen sixties used to be a fucking shit ton

26:12

of Maple trees in the area. When Herb

26:14

was born there, the neighborhood was very

26:16

upper middle class.

26:18

Some wealthy. People live in there as well,

26:20

very nice neighborhood. It still seems

26:22

very nice. At some point in Herbert's childhood, the

26:24

Baumacher family eventually moved to

26:27

Washington township. One of nine townships

26:29

of Marion County in Indiana located

26:31

entirely within the boundaries of Indianapolis, comprising

26:33

a good chunk of the northern central area

26:35

of the city. The

26:38

popular broad ripple area of the city is

26:40

located within it. Used to be a comedy club

26:42

there called crackers that I played so

26:44

many times. Fun area. A lot

26:46

of good memories from broad ripple. Especially since

26:48

Herb, never even killed me one time

26:50

there. That helped me have a good time for

26:52

sure. He was he was dead by the

26:54

time went not far from Butler

26:56

University, just a little north of the Butler tarkington

26:58

neighborhood. So the family didn't move far and always lived

27:00

in a nice area when Herbert was

27:02

growing up. Herb's parents were doctor

27:04

Herbert Ebaldmeister and Elizabeth

27:06

Baldmeister. Herbert's

27:08

senior was I guess he wasn't really, I mean, a

27:10

college senior for differentiation, but they're different

27:13

middle names. He was anesthesiologist who

27:15

graduated with his undergraduate

27:17

degree from ValParezo University,

27:20

Valpo Baby. In

27:22

Northwest Indiana, near Chicago, and then in nineteen

27:24

fifty, graduated from the Indiana University

27:26

School of Medicine, which is in downtown Indianapolis,

27:28

which is how the bowmeister's ended up,

27:30

where her grew up. As mom Elizabeth,

27:32

we stay at home mom and really focus on making sure she

27:34

raised a prolific nearly undetectable

27:36

serial killer. Her other kids wouldn't take to

27:38

her lessons, but Herb was a good student and paid

27:41

attention. I don't know anything about

27:42

Elizabeth. Sources are pretty quiet

27:43

about who she was. Extending

27:46

his schooling, Herb senior would

27:48

serve in the army during World War two.

27:50

No idea what he did in the service. After finishing

27:52

medical school, Herb's senior worked as an

27:54

an anesthesiologist at Winona Memorial

27:56

Hospital from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty

27:59

five. That hospital

27:59

was demolished in two thousand eleven after sitting

28:02

vacant since two thousand four. Herb senior

28:04

also worked at Methodist Hospital just outside of

28:06

downtown Indy. From nineteen fifty seven to

28:08

nineteen sixty eight.

28:10

Dude made real good money. Today, the average

28:12

anesthesiologist in the US makes between three hundred and

28:14

ten thousand and five hundred and twenty

28:16

thousand a year. On average,

28:18

averaging in the four hundred

28:20

k range. The Balmeister family grew up

28:22

upper middle class, if not outright rich.

28:25

Her was the oldest of four kids, his sister Barbara, born

28:27

in nineteen forty eight, younger brother Brad, born

28:29

in nineteen fifty four, and another brother

28:32

Richard, another dick, born

28:35

in nineteen fifty six, quite a bit of

28:37

dick in the suck today. It's a very

28:39

dick heavy suck, which is great because you can

28:41

never have enough dick. Herb's

28:43

wife Julie later told people magazine that Herb grew

28:45

up in a beaver, cleaver kind of home in

28:48

Indianapolis. Herb was a normal child, but he did begin

28:50

showing signs of some anti social behavior by adolescence.

28:53

Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of concrete

28:55

examples of this antisocial behavior. I'll go

28:57

over some in a bit, but

28:59

mostly it's just sources describing young

29:01

herbicides. Weird, strange,

29:04

eccentric, you know? Anti

29:06

social loner, not popular, etcetera.

29:08

Dick Meister was always it

29:11

seems a bit

29:11

different. They also have no

29:12

details from his time in grade school or junior

29:14

high. His family pretty tight lipped about his life after he

29:16

shot himself in the head. Following the

29:19

police beginning to look into arresting him for being

29:21

a serial killer. And then because he was

29:23

never formally charged, never proven in court to have been

29:25

a serial killer, no one close to him seemed

29:27

real interested. In speaking to journalist in

29:29

regards to a book or an article about him,

29:31

you know, being a killer. Living his secret

29:33

life.

29:33

Which I get. Nineteen sixty

29:35

one, Herbert attended high school at North Central High in

29:37

Washington Township, North of Broad Ripple. It's a pretty

29:39

new school at that time. It opened in nineteen fifty

29:42

three. Herbert's

29:43

herbert do

29:44

wonder if he went by Herbert. I've never

29:46

met at

29:47

Herbert. I've met people who

29:48

call themselves Herb, but not Herbert participated

29:51

in the biology, geology, government, international

29:54

relations and chest clumps. And he also like

29:56

most kids said, some weird shit.

29:58

Maybe weirder than average since he was blatantly

30:00

mentally ill. As

30:02

I'll go over soon. Herb's friend recalled

30:04

that he used to, quote, ponder

30:06

what it would be like to

30:08

taste human urine. Drinking that hot

30:10

fresh apple cider. If that's the

30:12

main thing an old friend remembered about him,

30:15

I wonder if he pondered about that

30:17

a lot. Right? Like a

30:19

defining aspect of his personality. What's

30:21

going on? Herb? Just

30:23

pondering pondering. What are you pondering about?

30:25

Pondering about what peat tastes

30:28

like. again Again, I just can't stop

30:30

pounding on it. Is it

30:32

bitter, sweet,

30:33

sour? It's

30:34

almost all I think about. What

30:37

does pee taste like? Does it differ from person to

30:39

person day to day meal to meal?

30:41

Does lady piss taste different than boy piss?

30:43

Does black piss taste different than white piss? So

30:45

much piss? So little time.

30:47

While also in high school, it seems that Herb found

30:49

a dead crow on the road one day,

30:51

and put it on his teacher's desk when she wasn't looking.

30:54

And instead of everyone laughing, it's such a funny

30:56

joke, everyone was

30:58

disturbed. More of a

31:00

dude. What the fuck kind of reaction

31:02

as opposed to, oh, good one Herbert. Yeah.

31:04

You really got her. Sometime around

31:06

this incident, Herb's father took him in for some psychological

31:09

testing. Apparently, this was

31:10

not an isolated incident. And he

31:12

wasn't just acting up at school, he was acting up at

31:14

home, had his son examined because

31:16

he was quote irresponsible and often combative.

31:18

Herb was diagnosed with

31:21

schizophrenia with possibly more than

31:23

one personality. And that is not

31:25

a light mental illness diagnosis.

31:27

Bummer, no one in his family was really willing to talk

31:29

about what the fuck Herb was up to as a kid because I feel

31:31

like there was a lot of juicy stories. I

31:34

would be shocked if there were not

31:36

family tales about him, you know, torturing pets or,

31:38

I don't know, molesting a neighbor kid like

31:40

serious shit. no

31:42

further documentation of his mental health struggles while

31:44

growing up outside of this, not until

31:46

we get to young adulthood. Herb's

31:48

friend Bill Donovan recalled that Herb didn't fit

31:50

in during high school Partially because he

31:52

preferred books to sports. Quote, he

31:54

just didn't blend in. He wasn't a

31:56

basketball obsessed Hoosier. Donovan

31:59

also said that Herb didn't date anyone. This is

32:01

probably because he was a closeted

32:03

homosexual. And that is for sure gonna

32:05

fuck up your dating life a bit in a conservative

32:07

city in the early nineteen sixties. Also, maybe he

32:09

was still piss obsessed. Maybe that

32:11

maybe that added to his dating

32:13

woes. Hey, Susie. Wanna

32:15

grab a mauled after school on Friday?

32:17

Oh sure Herbert. That'd be swell. And then

32:19

maybe we can go catch a movie. I'd love

32:21

to Herbert.

32:22

And then maybe we could

32:23

drive that spot and Broadway, we're,

32:26

you know, people park their cars and

32:28

yeah. Herbert? Well,

32:31

I'm embarrassed to ask. Herbert,

32:33

I'd love to park and make out with you if that's what you're

32:35

asking. Oh, great, Susan. That's just

32:37

grand. But that's not really what I was hoping

32:39

for. I was hoping we could piss each other's

32:41

mouths and talk about what it tastes

32:43

like. And then you could put on strap on and pegme

32:45

to pretend to be biff in the football team.

32:47

I don't know.

32:49

Nineteen sixty five after graduating high school, Herb

32:51

studied at Indiana University one semester

32:53

in Bloomington. Little over an hour's Little over

32:55

an hour's drive from where he went to high school. Herb

32:58

chose anatomy. As his major Indiana university,

33:00

some sources say he was pressured by his father

33:02

to do so, to follow him to the medical

33:05

field, but that young Herbert didn't want

33:07

to. From nineteen sixty five to nineteen

33:09

seventy, he attended school sporadically. Sometimes

33:11

for a full academic year, just a semester,

33:13

sometimes to take an entire year

33:15

off. And again, I feel like there's a lot

33:17

of stories from this time in his life that no

33:19

one talked about. From nineteen sixty

33:22

six, nineteen sixty seven, while taking some time away

33:24

from school, Herbert worked as a copy

33:26

clerk in classified advertising at the

33:28

Indianapolis Star and

33:30

Indianapolis News. Adding evidence to claims that

33:32

Herbert was eccentric. Herb's coworkers there

33:34

one of his coworkers there.

33:36

Gary Donna, former Ad rep for

33:38

the Indianapolis star, Recall the time when they were planning to go to a football scrimmage

33:40

at Indiana University, excuse

33:43

me, and Herb offered to drive everyone in

33:45

his hearse. Seems

33:47

like the kind of thing that someone legitimately

33:49

cool, but eccentric could pull off

33:51

as a joke, or something that

33:53

someone genuinely creepy would do. Donna said

33:55

Herb was eager to please, but eccentric. He

33:58

told People Magazine, I remember friends saying,

33:59

what's the deal with this guy? And I just

34:02

said, well, Herb's just

34:04

Herb. Sounds like he was creepy. They're

34:06

asking what his deal was. And he had to say, well, Herb's just Herb.

34:08

Gary Donna also thought that Herb was sensitive

34:10

about the way his superiors viewed him. Allegedly

34:13

Herb got the job of the paper because his dad was well respected

34:15

in the community and pulled some strings. And

34:17

it bothered him to have others think that he was only

34:19

working there because his dad got in

34:22

the job. Also, Gary Donna.

34:24

That's an odd name. Right? I

34:26

mean, male first name, female, first

34:29

name

34:29

for last name. You you just don't come

34:31

across a lot of Gary Donnas or, like, Larry Michelle's or

34:33

Roger Janets very often.

34:36

In nineteen sixty eight, that I you heard about

34:39

his future wife Juliana, Julie Sater. Through a mutual

34:41

friend, they were attracted to each other because they both shared

34:44

the same conservative values, or at

34:46

least Julie did genuinely and her

34:48

pretended to.

34:50

Julie said they met in nineteen sixty eight at the Rose Bowl in

34:53

Pasadena, California where IU was

34:55

playing that year. Julie said about

34:57

meeting Herb, he was nice, fun

34:59

to be with and good looking. We both liked

35:02

cars, and we were both young

35:04

Republicans. Joey said in her interview with

35:06

A and E investigative reports that she

35:08

and Herb never ever engaged in any

35:10

of the drug use in nineteen sixties. She

35:12

and Herb spent their time driving

35:14

around, maybe getting a coke

35:16

here there. What

35:18

a couple of fucking nuts. Best time to

35:20

do drugs in American history? These two

35:22

are occasionally having a soda. Oh,

35:25

living on the edge. I

35:27

bet sometimes they even had

35:30

milkshakes. Like on Friday nights, you

35:32

know, when they when they, you know, could risk all

35:34

that extra sugar and not worry about it affecting, you

35:36

know, classes the next day. I

35:38

also like that she said they like cars,

35:40

not sports cars, not antique cars,

35:42

expensive cars, European cars, just cars. I know

35:44

I'm nitpicking here, and she probably was just

35:46

speaking quickly. But adding that to

35:48

the occasionally driving around and getting a soda, they just

35:50

seem so fucking boring.

35:52

Highly doubt he was driving around in that hearse, thought

35:54

she would have mentioned that. seen interviews with Julie and

35:56

combined with what I've learned about her in various

35:58

articles as well, she

35:59

does seem like the perfect wife for a serial killer. She

36:02

just seems like

36:02

this incredibly subservient step

36:05

forward wife kind of

36:06

personality. Yeah. Julie,

36:08

at seven AM, where's my coffee? Oh,

36:10

sorry, dear. Coming right away to

36:12

you. We're out of beans and I had to run down of the

36:15

pantry. I won't let it happen again. And

36:17

my eggs Julie over

36:20

medium? These yolks are hard. Oh, goodness,

36:22

Herbert. You poor thing. I'll make you two

36:24

new eggs at once. I must have gotten distracted

36:26

because of the coffee beans. It's quite

36:28

alright. Yeah. alright No, it's

36:30

not, but I'll make it alright, Herbert. What a

36:32

terrible start to your day I'm giving

36:34

you? Julie said about the relationship. I think we

36:36

had very family

36:38

oriented values. We didn't have candlelight dinners and we didn't run off

36:40

on romantic weekends together.

36:42

We were much more about

36:44

family love.

36:46

Sure, Herbert. Never brought flowers home for me

36:48

or or ever told me I was pretty or ever

36:50

passionately kiss me or pulled my hair back

36:52

and sucked me to my thighs quiver.

36:54

We didn't have that kind of love. We had a better kind. The kind

36:56

we both enjoy sitting in the same room and

36:58

watching the price of right together and sleeping

37:01

in separate rooms later. November

37:04

nineteen seventy one, twenty four year old Her

37:06

Baumeister marries Julie Sater. Julie

37:08

was also likely twenty four. Can't

37:11

find birth date for her, but in an Indianapolis

37:13

newspaper article for nineteen ninety six, she's

37:15

listed as being forty nine years old four

37:17

months after Herb died when he was forty

37:19

nine years old. These two are going to

37:21

have three children together, their daughter, Marie aka Mary

37:24

born in nineteen seventy nine, their son, Eric

37:26

born in eight nineteen

37:28

eighty one, and their daughter

37:30

Emily born in nineteen eighty four.

37:32

And it is a

37:34

fucking miracle that they had

37:36

three kids. This blows me away.

37:38

Julie would say later that in twenty

37:40

five, just like like weeks away from twenty

37:42

five years of marriage, that she

37:44

and Herb had

37:46

sex exactly Six times

37:49

holy total, less

37:51

than once

37:52

every two years. That is insane. If

37:54

true. And I don't know why would she like why she would lie

37:56

about that. Herbert, hot damn, was he

37:59

a shooter? Fucks his wife

38:00

six times, has three kids.

38:03

Man, a couple of fertile turtles, dude had

38:05

a baby cannon for a dick.

38:08

Also feels like Julie is

38:09

a settler. Right, really settling here. Can you imagine being cool

38:11

marrying someone so not into you

38:14

sexually? That they only fuck you

38:16

six times

38:18

in twenty five years. And they got married young.

38:21

It should've

38:21

fucked more than six

38:23

times in honeymoon. Doesn't

38:25

seem like Julie set her

38:26

sights really high for what she wanted in life.

38:28

Passionate love? No, not for me. I'll

38:30

take a guy who wants to sometimes drink a soda

38:32

and almost never fuck me.

38:34

As long as my parents have proved me as a good

38:36

steady job, who cares? Living the dream. Living the sad sleepwalking through life existing instead

38:38

of living dream. On their book about

38:40

Baimeister, where the bodies are buried.

38:44

Authors Fannie Weinstein and Melinda Wilson wrote that Julie also literally

38:46

never saw Herb naked, like

38:48

not one time ever during

38:51

their

38:51

entire marriage.

38:53

That's so

38:53

weird to me. They got married in

38:55

nineteen seventy one, not fucking sixteen

38:57

seventy one. Julie said Herb

39:00

dressed in the bathroom, and when it came time to go

39:02

to bed, he would always put on

39:04

pajamas before slipping between the sheets. Dear god.

39:05

I do not understand her neither

39:07

does that, Lucaina.

39:09

I mean, I understand him. Herb is a gay

39:12

sociopath who wanted the beard to look

39:14

straight to make mommy and daddy happy and he found

39:16

one. But her,

39:17

how fucking

39:18

sad? I don't know.

39:19

Maybe she was also gay, and he was

39:21

Herbert, Beard. Right? It's possible that they were both

39:23

repressing their true sexual natures. And their

39:26

relationship was convenient in a in a scam and you

39:28

know, kind of from both

39:30

sides. Julie told people magazine that she and Herb

39:32

didn't have many friends and showered their

39:34

attention their attention on the tiller on

39:36

their children. I still

39:36

can't believe they had three kids with such a little fucking. Makes

39:38

no sense. Julie said that

39:39

Herb was a dedicated father and was involved in their

39:42

children's lives. He chose

39:44

their preschool. Helped buy gifts

39:46

for them and helped make their

39:48

lunches. She said, we did everything together. He

39:49

would push the mower and I would trim

39:52

the bushes. Mosey, I would trim my own bush. And diddle it, of

39:54

course, God knows Herbert wasn't gonna touch it. He hated

39:56

pussy. He could only get hard enough to put it

39:58

in my pussy if I spoke in a deep voice and begged him

39:59

to fuck my

40:02

man butt. I may have

40:03

added that last part. In early nineteen

40:05

seventy two, Herb now attends Butler

40:07

University for one semester. Herb's

40:09

bureau of motor vehicle's application later will state

40:12

that he graduated from Butler with a degree in

40:14

so zoology. Why

40:16

zoology sources do not say? He

40:18

would never end up working with animals, so much mystery with Dick Meister. And

40:20

he also lied about graduating. He never

40:23

graduated. Never had a degree.

40:26

Late nineteen seventy two, Herb gets job as a temporary

40:28

clerk typist at the bureau of motor vehicles. He'll

40:30

work there with, for the next thirteen years, eventually,

40:32

will earn up to thirty thousand four

40:35

hundred and seventy two dollars a year, and as a program director of their

40:37

cash and audit department. In nineteen

40:39

eighty five, when he is making over

40:41

thirty thousand dollars a year, would

40:43

equate to around eighty thousand dollars a year

40:45

today. While Herb is working there in the nineteen

40:47

seventies, Julie is working as a high

40:49

school English teacher. Julie like or excuse me, just like with the

40:51

newspaper, it seems like Herb was hired at the Bureau of

40:54

Motor Vehicles, thanks to his father.

40:56

It sounds like Herb was a

40:58

fucking mess.

41:00

Who was unable to get a job on his own.

41:02

Sometime right around getting his job just weeks or months into

41:04

his marriage, Herb, who was a mess,

41:07

became very depressed and then in nineteen seventy two, either shortly

41:09

before or after he got this job, I'm guessing maybe in between

41:12

graduating from well, not graduating.

41:14

In between being done with Butler and and

41:16

getting his

41:18

job, Herb's father had him involuntarily committed

41:20

to a psychiatric hospital

41:22

for sixty days. Julie said

41:24

that she was in favor of this,

41:27

but she will later say that she didn't know exactly why

41:29

he was put in or what he worked on while

41:31

he was committed. She later just said that

41:33

her was hurting and

41:36

needing help. So why was he hurting? Because he knew he was gay

41:38

and had just gotten married to a

41:40

woman? Timing seems to indicate that may have been

41:42

a possibility. Her

41:44

was diagnosed this time with obsessive compulsive personality

41:46

disorder instead of schizophrenia. Julie

41:48

knew he was hospitalized, obviously, but wouldn't

41:50

learn about his actual diagnosis until

41:54

after his death. Now, for this hospitalization, there was no talk of him getting

41:56

any therapy, so I doubt he dealt with his

41:58

shit like he should have. Just

42:00

pushed whatever he was struggling with down,

42:02

down, down, And then later,

42:04

sometimes that shit would come up, up, up, and

42:06

maybe someone would die.

42:07

By the late seventies, Julie quits her job

42:09

as a high school English teacher to focus

42:11

on building her family after the birth

42:13

of their first child, daughter Mary in nineteen seventy nine. From

42:15

the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, we get a few more

42:18

insights into

42:20

Herb's inconsistent personality. Susan Pierce,

42:22

Herb subordinate there, said he was an excellent

42:25

boss, but meticulous. According

42:27

to Weinstein in Wilson's book, other people who have worked with

42:30

did not think he was excellent, but

42:32

rather unstable. The author

42:34

said he often began ranting and raving

42:37

fellow employees for no apparent reason. Yeah,

42:39

because he's fucking mentally ill. Some of

42:41

Herb's coworkers also said that he was a

42:43

perfectionist given to sudden

42:46

unprovoked rages. The way Herb is described varies a lot from person to person.

42:48

Many people knew him as a business owner and devoted

42:50

family man, but the police say that he was

42:52

hot headed,

42:54

a boaster who was always trying to impress others. Some described

42:56

him as eccentric, others said

42:58

he was quiet and kept himself.

43:01

Still others described him as Gregarious,

43:03

a kind very social person who went

43:05

out of his way to help others.

43:07

The Indianapolis star wrote Even when

43:09

he died, Baumeister's life was one of

43:12

opposites. He lived on an expensive piece of property in

43:14

Westfield. Oh, yeah. They said in that

43:16

interview, they said Carmel is where he lived the

43:18

local news. Reported their

43:20

head wrong. He was not in Carlo. He was

43:22

in Westfield, which is close. But

43:24

anyway, even when he died, Baumeister's life was one

43:26

of opposites. He lived on an expensive piece of property in Westfield and sent his three

43:28

children to private schools, but he also ran a

43:30

thrift store business that was in financial trouble and

43:32

recently filed for chapter eleven

43:34

bankruptcy protection. Hamilton County

43:36

Sheriff's Sergeant Ken Wizman

43:38

told the Indianapolis star one person was sporadic,

43:40

hot headed, and would go off for

43:42

no apparent reason on tangents.

43:44

He tried to impress people, wanted to make them think he was more important than he was, even when

43:46

his business was going downhill. The other mister

43:49

Baimeister was the family man who wanted to supply the best

43:51

for his family that he possibly could.

43:54

Some people describe Herb's dressings simply, said he didn't

43:56

talk about his family much, others said he wore

43:58

three hundred dollar shoes, was doting to his

44:00

family, and meticulous about his appearance.

44:04

Stude was all over the fucking place. I'm not really surprised

44:06

though. Right? Again, he struggled with serious mental health

44:08

problems. And on top of that, lived an extreme

44:10

double life for most of his adult

44:14

life. While a lot of people describe Herb as quiet and professional, the this is

44:16

also the guy who once sent Christmas

44:18

cards of himself and another man dressed and dragged

44:20

as a joke that apparently

44:22

his coworkers did not

44:24

understand or find funny.

44:26

I have

44:26

to wonder if he was also bipolar. And

44:28

as I

44:29

mentioned up top, he once pissed

44:31

on his boss's desk

44:33

That's pretty extreme. Weinstein

44:35

and Wilson wrote it was no secret around the

44:37

office who the culprit was. Still, Herb somehow managed

44:39

to avoid being fired until he

44:42

urinated on a letter addressed to the

44:44

governor of Indiana. And you know

44:46

what? That tracks actually. The

44:48

kid who pondered a lot about piss tasted

44:50

how piss tasted right now pisses on a boss desk

44:52

and then pisses on a letter to the governor. Heard was all over the

44:54

place except when it came to piss. He

44:56

was consistently deviant, where piss was

45:00

concerned. Also, he got fired at nineteen eighty five the year following the birth of his

45:02

first excuse me, third child.

45:04

His wife has not worked for years.

45:07

At this point, he's the breadwinner. He

45:09

makes a solid living, but he's not making crazy money.

45:11

Unless he had outside of help, no way they're saving all kinds of

45:13

money. And I'm guessing pretty dependent on Herb's Paychex

45:15

to pay the bills every month. And then this dude

45:17

goes and gets fired for pissing on a

45:20

letter to the governor after pissing on his

45:22

boss's desk. That's

45:24

fucking reckless and beyond embarrassing.

45:27

There's no way he told his wife why he really got

45:29

fired. Was there? How was your day,

45:31

honey? Not great, Jules. My boss, man,

45:33

did he completely overreact? Oh,

45:35

no dear. I'm so sorry, what

45:37

happened?

45:37

Oh, well, he he walked in on

45:39

me, pissed on a letter to the governor because

45:41

someone pissed on his desk, recently, he's

45:43

very sensitive to piss and totally fired

45:46

me. Oh, it's terrible to hear. Oh, well, I don't

45:48

wanna work at a place where they're so repressive

45:50

about piss anyway. Met no one there even

45:52

ever ponders about what pissed tastes like. They're so

45:54

anti urine. After

45:56

Herb was fired from the bureau, he got a job at

45:58

a thrift store. Which will soon inspire

45:59

him to start his own thrift store business.

46:02

That seems like a

46:02

super random turn to Vince. Right?

46:04

BMV to thrift

46:07

shop clerk. I know that thrift stores don't pay much now. How did a father of three

46:10

pay the family's bills on thrift store

46:12

money? I feel like after going over these notes

46:14

several times before recording this and reading and watching everything I

46:16

could find on

46:18

Trying to understand his life and make sense of a lot of inconsistent

46:20

sources. I feel like his dad probably was supplementing

46:22

his income for a long time for most of

46:26

his Some kind of outside assistance, feels like it

46:28

went on. And again, I feel like the family

46:30

has so many stories they haven't shared about

46:32

this guy. His wife Julie was a

46:34

member of the Indianapolis Junior League when he

46:36

starts working the thrift store and dreams of owning the

46:38

thrift store business. The Indianapolis

46:40

Junior League described on their website now as an organization of

46:42

women committed to promoting volunteerism,

46:44

developing the potential of women, and

46:46

improving the community through the effective action

46:48

and leadership trained volunteers who

46:50

purpose is exclusively educational and

46:52

charitable. And she bought into Herb's

46:54

thrift store dream and thought it would be a great way

46:56

they could help contribute to the Indianapolis

46:58

Children's Bureau. That organization

47:00

recently changed their name to Fireflies Children

47:02

and Family Alliance in Indy. According

47:04

to their website, Fireflies focused on

47:06

child abuse prevention, family preservation and

47:08

re reunification. Use placement

47:11

and recovery services. So it

47:13

sounds like they're wonderful people. Doing

47:15

great shit around this time. And they were. Her was also

47:17

very, very likely a monster at this time starting

47:19

to do horrible shit

47:22

as well. Actually, he may have been

47:24

doing sponsorship for about five years by this point.

47:26

Let's back up a bit. In the early

47:28

eighties, men started turning up

47:30

dead along i seventy between

47:32

Indiana and Ohio. And a lot of

47:34

investigators now feel confident that her bowel

47:36

moisture was murdering. A task force

47:38

would eventually be assembled to solve these murders and they

47:40

would dubbed the killer the i

47:42

seventy strangler. After Herb died, looking into his credit card transactions

47:44

and travel history corroborated by

47:46

Julie and others, all of

47:48

his travels will

47:50

match perfectly. With the following

47:52

murders. On June sixteenth

47:54

nineteen eighty, less than a year after the birth of Herb's first

47:56

child, fifteen year old Michael Petrie.

47:59

Was

47:59

found naked in a

47:59

rural area of Hamilton County, Indiana.

48:01

Michael was

48:02

a sex worker, spent a lot of time at gay bars

48:04

in downtown Indianapolis, bars that

48:06

Herb, investigators would also later uncover all

48:08

so spent a lot of cause death was undetermined

48:10

and while the corner would rule out strangulation, some

48:12

think the corner got it wrong.

48:16

Michael, I missed on June seventh. On June tenth,

48:18

he would be seen in a parked car with a man on

48:20

Market Street at College Avenue.

48:22

June eleventh was seen at

48:24

the Monument Circle in downtown Indianapolis, and then

48:26

his death would barely make the

48:27

news. Two months later, August

48:29

eighth

48:30

nineteen eighty one, twenty five year old Gary d

48:32

Davis. Found dead in his home in

48:34

Meriden Woods, or excuse me, Meridian

48:36

Woods. Gary had definitely been strangled, also

48:38

found naked, and he'd been tied up.

48:40

tied Shortly before he was killed

48:41

shortly before he was killed, Gary told somebody was going

48:44

to the airport to pick up a friend that he'd

48:46

recently had an argument with.

48:48

Following summer, June first nineteen eighty two, twenty

48:50

seven year old Dennis a

48:52

branch was found dead in a

48:54

ditch in the ninety four hundred block

48:56

of River Road in Marion County. Last

48:58

scene get into a car in front of the downtown library, which was

49:01

a known pickup spot for sex workers at that time.

49:03

Kazander undetermined, was

49:06

found naked. An

49:08

unidentified man was found the following month July

49:10

twentieth nineteen eighty two in Dart County, Ohio. He

49:12

was estimated to be between twenty

49:14

and thirty years old. His cause of death, unknown at

49:16

the time. The article that

49:18

references his death gave almost no

49:20

details. Twenty two year old

49:22

Maurice Taylor found out the very next day, July twenty

49:24

first nineteen eighty two in

49:26

Weisel Creek. Back in Weisel Creek with a great creek name. In Hamilton

49:28

County, Indiana. Go fishing in

49:30

Weisel Creek. Maurice was found in six

49:32

inches of water. He was missing a

49:34

short corner suspected he was strangled but

49:36

couldn't declare an official cause of

49:38

death. Maurice was homeless left in the

49:40

boiler room of an apartment building in

49:42

Indy. The building manager said Maurice was a little weak

49:44

in the mind. We let him stay here

49:46

because the owner didn't want him to freeze. He

49:48

lived here for two years if you can call that

49:50

lady poor back and

49:52

poor bastard. Maynard tried to give him a job removing roofing shingles, but they had to

49:54

constantly monitor him because he would tear the wood and nails

49:56

off of the roof.

49:58

Maurice visited his mom on Sundays who lived with the

49:59

one named

50:02

Jane Wall Jane once tried to give Marie Slippers and sneakers, she only took

50:04

the slippers, told her to return the sneakers and

50:06

give the money to his mom. Marie

50:08

was friendly, never

50:10

made trouble. He'd leave for days at a time,

50:12

but he always came back, you know, until he

50:13

didn't. Reese also a known sex

50:14

worker in downtown Indianapolis.

50:17

According to Josh Thomas, former publisher of gay beat

50:19

magazine who wrote about the i seventy murders in

50:21

nineteen ninety, Maurice was not identified for eight months

50:24

because no one reported a missing.

50:25

Marie's mother was in a mental

50:28

institution hospital when he went missing and wasn't able

50:30

to report him until she

50:32

was discharged. This poor family sounds like they had a lot more shit to deal with than

50:34

the than most of the rest of us

50:36

ever will. Fourteen year old

50:38

Delvoy Baker,

50:40

the youngest only black i

50:42

seventy strangler victim was found in a ditch near a

50:44

river in Hamilton County on

50:46

October third nineteen eighty two. He was

50:48

found partially unclosed. have

50:50

marks on his neck, but according to detective

50:52

Jim Ryan Barger, that force

50:54

would not have strangled him, but some others

50:56

disagree. Delvoy was only an

50:58

eighth grader. Delboy was very

51:00

involved in his church as a young child, his adoptive

51:02

mother, Perley Townsend, said

51:04

whenever Delboy did something wrong, he'd start

51:06

crying and asked me to pray

51:08

for him. Delvoy not only lived a short life, he lived a damn hard Some

51:10

people man, hands that they are dealt to

51:12

start their lives off are just so fucking

51:16

tragic. He was one of five

51:18

kids, but his mom didn't wanna keep custody of

51:20

him. So Pearly Townsend took him when he was

51:22

a toddler. Delvoy had worked to paper route, but

51:24

he liked to spend more than he saved. What doesn't?

51:26

His adopted mom told him not

51:28

to spend money on nonsense, so this good

51:30

kid started bringing home groceries. Said

51:33

Delvoy with two trusted strangers and we get into someone's car without hesitation. Just try to warn

51:35

him saying Delvoy, you can't do that. People will

51:37

do nasty things to

51:40

you. And then

51:40

unfortunately, that's exactly what would happen. Neville had left home at four PM

51:43

on

51:43

October first. His parents said he was riding his bike to the

51:45

city center on the night he

51:48

disappeared called him at ten thirty, he said he'd be home late because he was going to the movies. His parents

51:50

were worried because they knew he didn't have money with

51:52

him. What his parents did not know

51:54

was the devil boy in friend

51:56

had been going to gay bars for three months. The friend reported he and Delvoy did

51:59

sex work and charged twenty to twenty three

52:01

dollars. That's a random very specific

52:03

total per night.

52:05

Fucking, again, this kid is an eighth grade. On

52:08

October second, nineteen eighty two Delvoy and his

52:10

sixteen year old friend went in front of the central library,

52:12

where again, male sex workers were known to

52:14

frequent and find clients.

52:16

Delvoy was seen get into a blue van,

52:18

a university park. The driver was a white

52:20

man approximately thirty years old with a

52:23

bushy mustache. Her was thirty five at that time, but did look

52:25

younger than he was. No word on whether or

52:27

not he had a mustache, but it was

52:29

nineteen eighty two. And he was a

52:31

thirty five year old white dude to frequent hit gay bars. So, ah, it's pretty good. He was rocking

52:33

a sweet stash. Also in

52:36

nineteen eighty two, an officer

52:38

task force

52:40

eight officer task force was created by the Indianapolis police department to

52:42

investigate this series of murders, all

52:44

of which occurred not far from i seventy law enforcement

52:46

right began now talking about the i

52:50

seventy strangler. But hasn't seen these killings ever warranted any front page

52:52

news. Following spring, May

52:54

twenty eight, nineteen eighty three, twenty two year old

52:56

Michael Andrew

52:58

Reilly. Goes missing after going to the Vogue Theatre, a nightclub in the broad

53:00

ripple neighborhood of Indy. That comic club

53:02

used to play at called Crackers, right

53:04

next door to the Vogue. And

53:07

I always thought the Vogue would be a cooler venue to play because

53:09

it was cooler. Intimate

53:12

venue, nine hundred person capacity rock

53:14

club. Lot of cool bands that played there over

53:16

the years. The red hot chili peppers played their back in nineteen eighty seven. That would have been fucking

53:18

great show. Johnny Cash played their

53:20

in nineteen ninety five, Snoop Dog, White Strides,

53:22

Willing Ellison, all kinds of x.

53:26

Cannibal Korps just played there last week. And one

53:28

of my old favorites, g Love, and the special

53:30

sauce. Actually, I think it's just g Love,

53:32

though. Sometimes he works solo,

53:34

sometimes he's got the trio. He's gonna

53:36

be there in January. Anyway, back in nineteen

53:38

eighty three, Michael was last seen leaving the vogue

53:40

with an unknown man a week later on June fifth.

53:43

Michael's body found in a drainage ditch in Hancock

53:45

County, naked from the waste up, cause

53:47

of death, strangulation. Perpetrator most

53:49

likely use a towel

53:51

or something similar. On June eighth nineteen eighty three, investigators determined that

53:53

Micah was dead for four to seven days before he was

53:56

found, coroner Charles

53:58

Gliedwell said Something unknown was

53:59

taken and wrapped around his neck until he

54:02

died. Michael was dating a forty year

54:04

old woman at the time of his death. He worked as a

54:06

vending machine

54:08

route Every specific

54:08

job. Police said Michael was probably

54:10

off

54:10

on a holiday when he went missing, but his mother

54:12

didn't believe that because his car, motorcycle, and

54:14

checkbook were still at home.

54:17

Also in December of nineteen eighty three, the FBI

54:19

now joins the investigation into trying to find

54:21

the i seventy strangler. June

54:23

twelve nineteen eighty three, the Indianapolis star

54:25

reports that the BI determined that two men are responsible for at least

54:27

eight murders in the past three years. One

54:30

suspect who stabbed at least four men to death men I did

54:32

not mention was thought to be

54:34

white, twenty to thirty years old, working a low

54:36

skilled labor job, a fan of military

54:38

paraphernalia, and leading a healthy

54:40

lifestyle. The

54:42

other killer whose victims, I did just go over, not all of them

54:44

originally assigned to this killer back in the summer of nineteen

54:46

eighty three, described as white,

54:48

approximately forty five

54:50

years old,

54:51

Overweight, worked a

54:52

high paying job, respected by

54:54

his community, thought to maybe be

54:56

married, but had no intimacy with his

54:59

wife. He was suspected of killing partially over the shame

55:01

and guilt he felt because of his attraction

55:03

to men and boys. This suspect now thought

55:05

to be her Baummeister. ProFound

55:07

not not too far off from the

55:09

truth.

55:09

Fucking nailed that no intimacy part

55:12

six times. Twenty

55:14

five years. On July six nineteen eighty three, a now seventeen member task

55:16

force of Central Indiana police agencies

55:18

begins reviewing their reports of

55:20

over eight cases of murdered men since

55:22

nineteen eighty. One of their goals

55:24

was also to improve contacts with the

55:26

Indianapolis gay community. They set up

55:28

a phone hotline to receive

55:30

future tips, Jumping ahead

55:32

two years now, right around the time herbert gets

55:34

fired from the BMV for causing some piss

55:36

problems. On May ninth nineteen eighty five, the

55:38

body of seventeen year old Eric Rodiger found

55:41

in a creek bed east of Lewisburg, Ohio,

55:43

been missing for two days. When this is last saw

55:45

Eric at a bus stop, except to ride, instead of getting

55:47

on the bus, he had been strangled

55:49

with a rope. Eric was also missing his shirt like several

55:51

of the other victims. Unlike the other victims, at least what was published

55:53

about them, he had definitively been

55:56

sexually assaulted. At

55:58

at the time of his death, Eric was trying to get a summer job, but then never showed up

56:00

to his three interviews on May seventh. He's one

56:02

of four children described as a good

56:05

kid, fun to be around, Eric's

56:07

father said that he wasn't gay, but he did attract

56:09

some very strange people. I also said he

56:12

didn't approve of Eric's friends and said I wouldn't be

56:14

surprised anything they might do to pick up money

56:16

for drugs. So maybe as the phrase goes, maybe he was for

56:18

pay. Eric's sister said he was, quote,

56:20

troubled and confused and died before he could

56:22

get help.

56:24

A PREBEL County, Ohio investigator in the corner, Dave

56:26

Lindloff now becomes involved in the i

56:28

seventy case. Over the next five years, three more victims

56:30

will be found in PREBEL County near

56:34

i seventy. On July thirtieth nineteen

56:36

eighty five, Warner Brothers Records

56:38

releases the hit single No

56:42

looking back.

57:06

okay

57:10

well

57:18

no

57:22

Yeah. That

57:26

was my grandmother,

57:27

fucking McDonald, rejoice for it

57:29

to triple m. pretty troubling Forgot

57:32

about that one. Such a good track.

57:33

Now, what did that her what did

57:34

that have to do with her bowmeister? Who

57:36

fucking cares? It was

57:38

fun?

57:39

That could hurt

57:40

now. September third nineteen eighty five,

57:42

Herbert gets into a little trouble with Johnny Law. He

57:44

got charged with drinking his own piss

57:47

in public, misdemeanor, You can drink it at home, but you

57:49

can't drink it out around town. He was almost charged with a felony because they caught him drinking it

57:52

from the source, but his daddy stepped in, got the

57:54

charges reduced. Herbert

57:56

had figured out that if you could, you know, figure out how

57:58

to pee and pee hard, while

58:00

you had a boner, you could shoot

58:02

it right into your mouth. He called it

58:04

taking a shot of that wood sider. That never

58:07

happened that I approved for. I'll calm down for

58:09

a bit and refocus on our

58:11

promise. Now he committed a hit and run while drinking

58:13

and driving? Drinking alcohol, not piss.

58:15

As far as I know, he'll not get into

58:17

any serious trouble though. So I wonder

58:19

if daddy stepped in again.

58:22

Six months later, March twenty seventh, nineteen eighty

58:24

six, a warrant is filed for her biomarker's arrest

58:26

now on charges of auto theft and conspiracy to

58:28

commit theft. Which I knew more about

58:30

this, Dick Myster after a one day trial

58:32

will be found not guilty of these

58:34

crimes. Later in nineteen ninety six on

58:36

August seventeenth, Twenty nine year old his creek

58:38

bed near Eton, Ohio. Ewing's a few

58:40

miles south of i seventy. Three boys out

58:42

jog and found his body Michael had been strangled

58:46

with rope Michael Glen grew up in Kansas City and Indianapolis.

58:48

He was his parent's only child,

58:50

served two years in National Guard, worked his labor and

58:52

lived in a trailer park

58:54

in Indianapolis. Since he didn't live his

58:56

parents, no one knows the exact day he went

58:58

missing. His mom last heard from him

59:00

in early May of nineteen eighty six when he

59:02

sent her a mother's day card and

59:04

his body wouldn't be the nineteen nine. On

59:06

November twelfth, excuse me, nineteen

59:08

eighty six, Herb's father, doctor

59:11

Herbert Ebaummeister, dies at

59:13

the age of sixty six in the hospital. His obituary does

59:16

not list an official cause of death.

59:18

Does say he was a member of Pilgrim

59:20

Lutheran Church the American Medical Association, the Indiana Medical

59:22

Association, the American County Medical

59:24

Association. Fuck in every medical

59:26

association he could fill out an

59:28

application for. And the

59:30

International Research Society of

59:32

Anesthesiologists. Also, once the

59:34

president of the Indianapolis

59:36

Society of Anesthesiologists guy like

59:38

joining clubs. There

59:40

was also request for donations to be made to

59:42

the IU Foundation for Heart Research and is

59:44

obituary, so I'm guessing he died of heart attack.

59:47

What's Herbert gonna do now with Daddy not around to help him

59:49

get more jobs and totally

59:52

speculating, but I feel like Kirby was daddy's

59:54

problem child gonna do when

59:56

Daddy's not around to help get him out of trouble.

59:58

On October fifteenth nineteen eighty seven, twenty one

59:59

year old James Robbins goes missing after leaving

1:00:02

his mom's Indianapolis home around

1:00:04

ten PM, He walked to the south

1:00:06

side of the city. On October

1:00:08

seventeenth James was found naked with strangulation

1:00:10

marks in a drainage ditch in Shelby

1:00:12

County, Indiana

1:00:14

near Gwynnville. A group of

1:00:16

people preparing to play, quote, war

1:00:18

games, found his body,

1:00:20

holy shit. He imagined

1:00:22

going to play some war games in woods and

1:00:24

coming across fucking dead body? Hey, time out, gosh. Time out. Who

1:00:26

wasn't paid attention when we

1:00:28

clearly went over the rules? I

1:00:31

clearly said, there would be

1:00:33

no actual killing. War,

1:00:36

games, guys, games.

1:00:38

And what the

1:00:38

fuck is going on with the raping? When

1:00:41

some of you agreed to role plays, Japanese soldiers fired one or

1:00:43

two, I did not think you would get

1:00:45

that into character.

1:00:47

Take it. Come on. I'll

1:00:48

call back to a few weeks ago. This

1:00:50

case was linked to numerous other

1:00:53

i seventy strangler kilns.

1:00:54

In nineteen eighty eight now, Herb and Julie found open

1:00:57

their first Save A Lot

1:00:59

thrift store in Indianapolis. That

1:01:02

year, Herb and Julie started thrift management incorporated a

1:01:04

for profit organization which operated their

1:01:07

Save A Lot thrift stores. How

1:01:09

did they get the money?

1:01:10

For this with Herb working

1:01:11

at thrift store and Julie not

1:01:13

working? Well Herb and Julie borrowed four thousand dollars

1:01:15

from Herb's mom Elizabeth to start

1:01:18

the business, That makes

1:01:20

a bit of sense, but four thousand dollars? Don't

1:01:22

put a fucking bet. That's all it took. Four

1:01:24

grand must have went a lot farther in

1:01:26

nineteen eighty eight than it does now. And it did,

1:01:28

nineteen eighty eight, the median

1:01:29

home price in the US was about a hundred and ten thousand. Now

1:01:31

it's about four hundred and twenty eight thousand, which

1:01:34

is insane.

1:01:36

I guess maybe four thousand dollars could be enough to get you started on a on a lease

1:01:38

for a thrift store business. Still seems

1:01:40

like a tiny amount to start a business though.

1:01:43

Gillian Herb would eventually own three

1:01:46

stores. Save a lot would

1:01:48

sell secondhand clothing and for a time

1:01:50

would donate fifty thousand dollars

1:01:52

annually to children's bureau of Indianapolis. So

1:01:54

they did some good. Save a lot had a

1:01:56

contract with the children's bureau

1:01:58

of Indianapolis. I mean, they had a

1:01:59

lot of incentive to raise money for them because the inventory at Save A Lot belonged

1:02:02

to the Children's Bureau. And then they would

1:02:04

receive a percentage of the proceeds when it

1:02:06

was sold. People would give

1:02:08

clothing to the children's bureau, and then Herb and his wife

1:02:10

Julie would sell it in her Save A Lot

1:02:12

store. It was very popular store Herb

1:02:14

and Julie earned fifty thousand

1:02:16

dollars in their first year of business, which was almost

1:02:18

double the median household income in the

1:02:20

US back at that time. Obviously, that's changed

1:02:22

a lot now. One former employee said that Herb and Julie considered it upscale

1:02:24

thrift store. SableOut even won an

1:02:26

Indianapolis Monthly Magazine

1:02:27

Award in nineteen ninety two for best place

1:02:29

to buy used jeans.

1:02:32

Herba

1:02:32

described as being a very nontraditional boss here. He

1:02:35

often asked one he often asked

1:02:37

employees to drink beer with him. It'd

1:02:39

save a lot during business hours.

1:02:42

Also, almost exclusively according to some old local news footage I

1:02:44

watched, hired teenage boys or young men in

1:02:46

the twenties. And for some reason, often

1:02:49

called his place Waco. As

1:02:51

in the cold compound, which is a little weird.

1:02:53

Also according to an Indian newspaper article,

1:02:55

Herb's behavior changed his new business. When he

1:02:57

worked at the bureau, right? He's working at the for

1:03:00

the government. He talked about his wife

1:03:02

and kids a lot, even brought the kids to work,

1:03:04

but save a lot. He suddenly stopped talking about his

1:03:06

personal life. And employees noticed that he

1:03:08

starts leaving for hours at a time during the day

1:03:10

to do god knows what. Seems like he

1:03:12

maybe really begins to kinda double down on

1:03:14

his double life now. Something that

1:03:16

Julie did not seem psychologically equipped

1:03:18

to question or put a

1:03:20

stop to. John Edloff, the Baumeister's lawyer, said

1:03:22

in this book about Herb, where the

1:03:24

bodies are buried, published in nineteen ninety eight.

1:03:26

Herb called the shots, and Julie always went along

1:03:28

for the ride. Whenever they disagreed

1:03:30

about what should be done with respect to a particular

1:03:32

matter, Herb would basically take over the

1:03:34

conversation. He'd say Julie, that's not what we're gonna

1:03:36

do. And then Julie deferred

1:03:38

to Herb, even if she wasn't very happy about it. so

1:03:40

subservient. It's a

1:03:40

long for Herb's ride.

1:03:42

The

1:03:43

business was successful at first, but things will

1:03:45

quickly go downhill after a few

1:03:48

years. Gilly said the work in long hours, parenting and financial troubles would lead to kind

1:03:50

of burnout. Meanwhile, bodies

1:03:52

young men keep turning up that will later be

1:03:54

attributed to Herb's likely victim count.

1:03:57

In May of nineteen ninety nine, John Paul Talbot found strangled

1:03:59

near a stream and defines County

1:04:02

Ohio. This body quite a ways from

1:04:03

my seventy, but the task force

1:04:05

still included. sources on whether or not the

1:04:07

body was clothed. August twelfth nineteen eighty nine, the body of

1:04:09

twenty six year old Steven L Elliott found in a

1:04:11

rural area of Pueblo County,

1:04:13

Ohio near i seventy, Stephen had been wearing his

1:04:16

underwear only and strangled most likely

1:04:18

with a rope. Stephen's

1:04:20

father expressed his appointment, With his son's

1:04:22

sexuality in a nineteen ninety six, Indianapolis star

1:04:24

article saying it wasn't supposed to

1:04:26

be made public, even some of our family didn't

1:04:28

know what he was. He said he

1:04:30

refused to forgive Steven for being

1:04:32

gay. Damn.

1:04:34

Steven was upset by his father's rejection

1:04:36

and once told him I don't know why you won't accept

1:04:38

me for who I am. Get new

1:04:40

shit, man. If you have kids

1:04:42

and are lucky enough to have them fucking

1:04:44

love you at all, just be happy about that.

1:04:47

Whether they want to come with someone

1:04:49

with the same equipment they have or different equipment,

1:04:51

what does it really fucking matter? Right?

1:04:53

Just hope that they're healthy and

1:04:55

happy. The body of thirty two year old Clay

1:04:57

Boatman was founded two days later August fourteenth nineteen

1:04:59

ninety by Children's Place in Sugar Run

1:05:01

Creek near Eton,

1:05:03

Ohio. strangled manually. Place car was found abandoned

1:05:06

in our place. The

1:05:08

parking lot of our place, a popular gay bar in

1:05:10

Indianapolis that

1:05:12

you know, her would go to a lot. Clay was described as an LPN

1:05:14

who had a drinking problem. One source, he was fascinated

1:05:16

by the nineteen eighty six case of a local teenage sex

1:05:18

worker who was the victim of a serial killer.

1:05:21

And told his friends that if that happened to him, he would not want

1:05:23

to leave anything distasteful behind for his mother

1:05:25

to find. Was mom died the year

1:05:27

before he did? Clay's family knew

1:05:29

he was gay and accepted it, quote, as best they

1:05:32

could. Oh, this nineties

1:05:34

time. Clay appeared laid back and calm, but it

1:05:36

was an anxious person. He was Karen and Compassionate, wanted

1:05:38

to be in a lasting relationship. Clay was

1:05:40

a nurse and worked at an Indianapolis Nursing Home.

1:05:42

Clay's mom died. He got serious about dealing with his

1:05:44

drug and alcohol abuse, wanted to go back to

1:05:47

school, become a registered nurse, but it

1:05:49

seems like a herb robbed him of

1:05:51

that opportunity. September twelfth

1:05:54

nineteen ninety, nineteen year old Thomas Klevinger's body

1:05:56

is now found on an abandoned railroad bed near Greenville in Dart County,

1:05:58

Ohio, Thomas strongly suspected

1:06:00

to have been a sex worker, last seen in

1:06:02

downtown Indianapolis.

1:06:04

Article about him said that Thomas grew up in a lower class area of Minneapolis had severe

1:06:06

behavioral problems. Then when he was with a

1:06:08

freshman in high school, he pulled a knife

1:06:11

on his vice principal, Thomas's sister,

1:06:13

Paula, was hit by a car when he was just six years old, Thomas saw it happen, and

1:06:15

his mom suspected he blamed

1:06:17

himself for it. Toward

1:06:19

end of was trying to change. He started attending AA

1:06:22

meetings, asked his girlfriend to teach him how to

1:06:24

read, wanted to go back to high school and get

1:06:26

a job. But, you

1:06:28

know, Herb fucked that up. February of

1:06:30

nineteen ninety one for reasons kept private, Herb

1:06:32

moves out and files for divorce. But

1:06:34

then he and Julie managed to reconcile

1:06:36

their marriage oh, lucky Julie. Wonder what the problem was

1:06:38

wonder if Julie was upset because she kept finding

1:06:40

dust in the panties from her pussy

1:06:42

never getting

1:06:44

any action. Or maybe she had the

1:06:46

audacity demanded Herb Fucker for seventh time. And he was like, absolutely not.

1:06:48

October seventh nineteen ninety one, the

1:06:50

body of the last i seventy stringer victim

1:06:54

is found. Forty two year old or

1:06:56

excuse me, forty two year old Otto. Gary Becker's remains. We're

1:06:58

found in a ditch next to a gravel road

1:06:59

in Henry

1:07:02

County, Indiana. Just a few weeks

1:07:04

later, November of nineteen ninety one, Herb and the

1:07:06

family moved to Westfield, Indiana onto that

1:07:08

eighteen acre property called Fox

1:07:10

Hollow Farms. And now going forward bodies will not keep turning up that will later be attributed

1:07:12

to her bow mice who instead they'll go missing,

1:07:14

and then later they'll be found on the now

1:07:16

reportedly very

1:07:18

haunted. Fox hollow. Sometimes it's called farm. Sometimes source it's called farm.

1:07:21

Fox hollow farm was worth a

1:07:23

million dollars back in nineteen ninety

1:07:26

six. And it seems like they made enough money to buy it fucking

1:07:28

trips or cash. That's impressive. According

1:07:30

to The New York

1:07:31

Times, the Westfield area

1:07:32

was considered so safe

1:07:35

children could leave their bicycles unlocked even outside

1:07:37

the county jailhouse.

1:07:40

What funny detail about

1:07:42

the jailhouse? Actually,

1:07:42

wouldn't wouldn't, you know or

1:07:44

where

1:07:45

excuse me, would

1:07:46

that many people just leaving jail?

1:07:48

Just a jail anywhere.

1:07:51

Immediately steal the bike in

1:07:53

front of the jail and all of

1:07:55

its security cameras? I

1:07:56

don't feel like that makes one area more

1:07:58

say it's another, if that's I don't know.

1:07:59

Maybe I'm wrong. Fox Hilla Farm is a thousand

1:08:02

square foot tutor mini mansion.

1:08:04

Eleven thousand square feet.

1:08:08

It's fucking huge. That was eighteen acres. It wasn't quite that big

1:08:10

when Herb lived there. It wasn't the square footage, but it

1:08:12

was it was still very very large. It's been

1:08:15

remodeled a few times since. Fox

1:08:17

Allo Farm had at the time where

1:08:19

Herb lived there four bedrooms, indoor pool, two libraries, five car and custom features

1:08:22

like stained glass windows. Fox

1:08:25

AlloFarms was not the fresh start that I guess Julie and Herb were hoping for.

1:08:27

They grew more distance. What little

1:08:29

sex they'd once had and

1:08:32

so little.

1:08:32

little succeed once had so that

1:08:34

That

1:08:34

was all over now. At some point, living here, they began

1:08:37

to sleep in different rooms. They now own

1:08:39

a business together and manage raising

1:08:41

kids together and that's about it. Each summer while living

1:08:43

there, Julie will leave town for a vacation. She'll

1:08:45

take the kids to a condo owned by

1:08:47

Herb's mom Elizabeth on

1:08:50

Lake Woolsey. Or Wawosi. I have

1:08:52

a pronunciation guide for that later. So don't hold me

1:08:54

to that pronunciation, but I'll get it right here in

1:08:56

a bit when it comes up again. I do

1:08:59

remember that. She might have, you know, begun, you know,

1:09:01

for more than a month, sometimes, like, two months plus

1:09:03

at a time, and her would

1:09:06

stay home. While she's away, he'll work save a lot during

1:09:08

the day and at night he'll go to different

1:09:10

day bars around Minneapolis under an alias of

1:09:14

Dick Herb. I wish. It sounds like some kind of

1:09:16

seasoning. It tastes like dick. I mean, I put a little

1:09:18

of this on your on your chicken. Try it out.

1:09:21

Dick Herb. What's

1:09:22

the taste like? Tastes like a crusty old

1:09:24

dick is silly goods? No.

1:09:26

His alias was Brian Smart.

1:09:28

Nineteen ninety two thrift

1:09:30

store royalty, Herb and Julie. Open their

1:09:32

second Save A Lot store. One former employee notices

1:09:34

that by the summer of nineteen ninety three, Herb starts disappearing for longer periods

1:09:37

of time on

1:09:39

a regular basis. Also often difficult to

1:09:41

reach him by mobile phone. You'll say his battery is low. When he's not selling vintage concert tees

1:09:43

and bell bottoms, he's busy picking up poor guys

1:09:46

downtown, taking him back to Fox on the

1:09:48

farm, and

1:09:50

doing god knows what to them. On August

1:09:52

ninth nineteen ninety two, Herb's brother Richard

1:09:55

is found dead floating in a hot

1:09:57

tub at an apartment complex in Texas.

1:09:59

His cause of

1:09:59

death, his rule is

1:09:59

accidental drowning. Years later, investigators

1:10:01

will wonder if Herb

1:10:04

killed him. Credit

1:10:06

card receipts other travel records do put him in the area when

1:10:08

his brother died. Did he tell

1:10:10

Richard something he shouldn't have? Right? Did

1:10:12

Richard find out something and try to hold

1:10:14

it over his brother? was suspicious. On May twenty

1:10:17

eighth nineteen ninety three, twenty year old

1:10:19

Johnny l Baier is reported missing.

1:10:21

His body will turn up

1:10:23

on Fox telephone. Two

1:10:25

months later, July nineteen ninety three, two men reported missing thirty one year old Jeffrey Jones and twenty year

1:10:27

old Richard Hamilton. Another

1:10:32

dick, Fucking cancel a rocket

1:10:34

and stuff that hit the dick. Jeffrey Allen Jones. When missing on July six nineteen ninety three, he was

1:10:36

last seen walk out of

1:10:38

a Salvation Army Rehab Center, Richard

1:10:42

d Hamilton. I I would love it if

1:10:44

his middle name is Dick. Richard Dick Hamilton.

1:10:46

I went missing on July thirty first

1:10:48

nineteen ninety three. Richard Hamilton was last seen

1:10:50

get leaving his apartment two AM to go get some cigarettes. Both of their remains will turn in Westfield. there

1:10:54

remains will turn up and west On

1:10:56

August sixth nineteen ninety three, twenty seven year old Allen Lee

1:10:59

Livingston, last seen getting into a white vehicle in downtown Indy, never seen

1:11:03

again. While suspected of being one of Herb's victims, his remains yet to be found. Also

1:11:05

on August six nineteen ninety three, thirty one

1:11:07

year old Manuel m Rosendes

1:11:10

went missing in Indiana man

1:11:13

or man well, excuse me, man well, Rosendes went to

1:11:15

a nightclub when it was time to

1:11:17

leave, his friends

1:11:19

couldn't find him. Some of his bones

1:11:21

will later be found on Fox hollow farm. And nineteen ninety four, according to one source, it

1:11:23

is not less the exact

1:11:26

date, Herb is arrested for

1:11:28

drinking and driving in Rochester, Indiana, since the three days and

1:11:30

one year's worth probation. Wonder if he had someone in the passenger

1:11:33

seat who would have died had he not

1:11:35

been pulled over that

1:11:36

time?

1:11:38

On April first,

1:11:38

nineteen ninety four, twenty six year old Steven Hale reported

1:11:41

missing. And by the way, this is not a complete

1:11:43

list. So many people went missing. These are

1:11:45

the most kind of These are these are

1:11:47

the example the the people who are most definitively, excuse me, tied to Herb. Stevens remains

1:11:49

also later found

1:11:51

on Herb's farm.

1:11:52

remains also later found on herb's

1:11:54

far June sixth nineteen ninety four, twenty eight year old

1:11:56

Alan Wayne Broussard, last seen leaving an

1:11:58

Indianapolis gay bar, yet another man whose

1:12:01

remains will turn up on the

1:12:03

old horse farm in Westfield.

1:12:04

Later in June of nineteen ninety

1:12:07

four, Alan Broussard's mother approaches private investigator Virgil all in deGriff, for

1:12:10

help.

1:12:11

for help Glad Virgil's

1:12:12

back. Once Verdell

1:12:14

takes his case, he is, of course, all fucking in. Van Grip initially assumed that, like, many cases, Alan

1:12:19

was run away. Let's get to

1:12:21

know a bit more about our old

1:12:23

buddy Virgil. He was once a sheriff, the

1:12:25

sheriff of Marion County, started a PI firm

1:12:28

in Indianapolis, sixty two working part

1:12:30

time until his retirement in nineteen eighty nine, then he went full time into PI work. A lot of people

1:12:32

would come to Van Riff with missing persons'

1:12:34

cases because of how they were handled by

1:12:36

the city. For

1:12:39

a person to be considered missing in Indianapolis, they had to be

1:12:41

missing for twenty four hours. And then the case

1:12:43

would go to a detective. If the

1:12:45

detective could not find them

1:12:47

in thirty days, then case would go to the

1:12:49

missing persons bureau, where it would take god knows how long for any actual

1:12:51

investigating to be done there. People

1:12:54

came to Van Driff because

1:12:56

you know, they didn't wanna deal

1:12:58

with all that half in bullshit. Alan was described as a heavy drinker. He

1:13:01

was gay, last

1:13:03

seen leaving brothers another

1:13:05

downtown in the gay bar. Van Nueriv quickly put posters up throughout the city, especially downtown. And in doing

1:13:07

so, Van Nueriv soon learned that Allan far

1:13:09

from the only missing gay man in

1:13:12

the city. On

1:13:15

July twenty second nineteen ninety four, another local gay man,

1:13:17

thirty four year old, Roger Allen Goodlett, goes

1:13:19

missing from downtown India, another man

1:13:21

whose remains would end up

1:13:23

on the farm. Roger's mother, Catherine,

1:13:25

O'Raho, said that they'd spent the day together. Roger helped her build

1:13:27

a bench. They talked and played with Roger's new

1:13:30

cats, that evening, Roger got dressed, left to

1:13:32

go, get bus

1:13:35

this was the last time she saw him. Rogers friend,

1:13:37

Rick Rigny, weird name, said that

1:13:39

her friend saw

1:13:40

Roger get into a

1:13:42

car. He was hitchhiking downtown. Catherine reported him missing the twenty third,

1:13:44

but the department had to wait. Speaking of weird names

1:13:46

real quick, just today when I was getting lunch,

1:13:48

the waitress looked at my

1:13:51

credit card and was Daniel b

1:13:53

Cummins? She's like, is that actually your name? And I was like, yep. And she's

1:13:55

like, that's a funny name. So

1:13:58

I get

1:13:59

it too. Catherine

1:14:01

O'Raho reported Roger Mission on July eighth or July twenty eighth nineteen ninety four. According to Roger's mother, the

1:14:04

poor dude, had brain damage and was more like a

1:14:06

fifteen year old rather than a man in his

1:14:08

thirties.

1:14:11

Roger's family believed he had autism. His mother said Roger was

1:14:13

a special soul. He loved the movie

1:14:15

Poseidon Adventure. He had it completely

1:14:18

memorized obsessively watching it over and

1:14:20

over. Knew all the parts and

1:14:22

could recite any of the characters. Not medically diagnosed, but the family feels he was autistic, high functioning. As

1:14:24

we explained a lot about

1:14:26

his quirky but lovable personality, Roger

1:14:30

could recite joke after joke, and he and

1:14:32

I had contests to see you could tell the most

1:14:34

and I miss his happy face. Roger graduated

1:14:37

from cardinal, Ritten or High. In nineteen seventy

1:14:39

eight, then attended Vincent University and the

1:14:41

Pontiac Business Institute. He was a member

1:14:43

of a local Lutheran

1:14:45

Church Sources do not say when the

1:14:47

brain damage came into play. Rogers remains were

1:14:49

eventually identified in September ninth nineteen ninety six.

1:14:52

Time had time of

1:14:54

death and cause of death, unknown. Roger's mother also came to Van deGriff because she didn't wanna

1:14:56

wait, you know,

1:14:59

the thirty days. Rander Grove said

1:15:01

that listening to her story felt like a repeat of these sessions he had had with

1:15:03

Alan Brossard's mother, the face of these men,

1:15:06

too close to ignore he

1:15:08

said. Vandegrift

1:15:10

and another local investigator, Bill Hisley, now

1:15:12

went to different gay bars in the city to see what

1:15:14

else they could find out, but the owners and

1:15:16

customers seemed reluctant to talk to them. They did

1:15:18

manage to learn that Roger Goodlett had left a bar called

1:15:21

our place with a man in a light blue car

1:15:23

in an Ohio license plate. That plate,

1:15:25

the state it comes from

1:15:27

interesting detail. It'll Show

1:15:28

up again later in a bit. Vandegrift

1:15:30

told the police what he knew but said they seemed disinterested. In

1:15:32

August of nineteen ninety four, Vandegrift

1:15:34

is now approached by a man named Tony

1:15:36

Harris Oh,

1:15:38

Tony, what a character? Tony knew Roger

1:15:40

Goodlett, and he tried to tell the police in the FBI

1:15:42

what happened, but no one seemed to believe him.

1:15:45

Over several visits, Tony will give his story

1:15:47

to Vandegrift. This will go a long ways to catching

1:15:47

Herb. Tony believed that a man named

1:15:50

Brian

1:15:50

Smart had killed Roger Goodlett. Yep.

1:15:53

That alias that Herb went by.

1:15:55

Tony said that he went to Brian Smart's home, and

1:15:57

they both engage in some

1:15:59

erotic asphyxiation. This makes zero fucking sense

1:16:01

to me, but according to one

1:16:03

source, in magazine, in

1:16:05

magazine dot c a. Tony said that Brian talked about how he had killed people and didn't think

1:16:07

he would be caught because he'd

1:16:09

been getting away with it

1:16:12

for years. So

1:16:14

these victims are mostly men who frequent in local gay bars

1:16:16

in the eighties and nineties, and some of them had

1:16:18

a high risk lifestyle. What the fuck? I

1:16:21

question this. Because Tony still fucks around with

1:16:23

his guy after he supposedly hears this. And they still have, you know, Radhika's fixation. He

1:16:25

still lets us do choke

1:16:27

him during sex. I

1:16:30

mean,

1:16:30

some people like to live dangerously. Goddamn. Why

1:16:33

would a, Herb tell

1:16:34

him this and then not kill

1:16:36

him? And b, why would he

1:16:38

still fuck this guy after

1:16:40

hearing this? I don't

1:16:40

know. I guess

1:16:41

the answer to a could be because Herb was fucking crazy and

1:16:43

the answer to b could be because

1:16:46

Tony is also fucking

1:16:48

crazy. This is so wild

1:16:50

of truth. Can you imagine going on date some or going fuck Right? nineteen of a tender

1:16:52

are you going to fuck right the nice nannies equivalent

1:16:54

of a tinder hook up hookup. And then

1:16:57

they start talking about having murdered people. How

1:16:59

does that even come up when

1:17:00

you're just hanging out with somebody

1:17:02

you're

1:17:02

trying to hook up with?

1:17:05

Can I get you something

1:17:07

to drink? Sure. Do you have some Tangerine? I'd love a GT. Oh,

1:17:12

damn. Know what? Some guy had over the

1:17:14

last week drank my tonic right before I killed him. You okay with soda or orange juice?

1:17:16

Sure. Yeah. No

1:17:19

orange juice is my hey, what

1:17:21

did you say right before the orange juice option? No. I

1:17:23

don't remember. You wanna go hop in the pool? Oh, yeah. That sounds great. yeah

1:17:26

sounds great Oh, the water is so nice and clean. I just had a drain and refilled a

1:17:28

few weeks ago for Kilma's pineapple. You need some shorts

1:17:30

or are you okay with skinny dipping? No.

1:17:34

It's a skinny dipping. Hey,

1:17:36

what do you say just a bit

1:17:38

before that though? Tony had met Brian at the 501 Club.

1:17:41

Another gay bar

1:17:44

in Indianapolis, he'd see the man before, but they

1:17:46

had not spoken with each other. Tony noticed that the guy was looking at Roger's missing persons poster, and Tony said,

1:17:48

quote, I

1:17:51

just had a feeling by the way he was captivated by that poster that

1:17:53

he was the man who killed my

1:17:55

friend Roger, something

1:17:58

in his eyes. Okay. Then why would

1:17:59

the fuck would you

1:17:59

go go to his place to

1:18:02

hook up later then? Tony's

1:18:03

crazy. Tony said he introduced

1:18:05

himself to the man after having

1:18:08

this feeling. Who said he was Brian

1:18:10

Smart, a landscape artist from Ohio who lived in a house outside of town, he was prepping for the new owners. He invited

1:18:12

Tony over to his house to

1:18:14

ponder over what human pissed tasted like.

1:18:18

Or for a cocktail in a swim. Brian's

1:18:20

car had an Ohio license plate. Is

1:18:22

this so strange to me also why

1:18:24

was her driving a car was an Ohio

1:18:27

license plate? Did he have an entirely different identity his wife

1:18:29

and kids didn't know about, including

1:18:31

an Ohio address? Later records will

1:18:33

show he did travel to

1:18:35

Ohio a lot nothing's ever said about him

1:18:37

actually having an address there. Again, I feel like Herb had so many

1:18:40

secrets. Anyway, these two guys

1:18:42

leave the city, travel to the

1:18:44

suburbs, into the wealthy

1:18:46

area of Westfield. They finally come to a sign atop a landscape stone embankment where Tony could read the word

1:18:52

farm They walk into Brian's unlit mansion

1:18:54

through the garage. Brian leaves Tony to a stairwell, said he had electricity in the basement,

1:18:56

there was a large wreck room

1:18:58

downstairs connected to an indoor pool,

1:19:01

which does match Herb's actual house of the time.

1:19:03

Tony notices it it is very cluttered that also there

1:19:08

are a

1:19:10

lot of mannequins around the room.

1:19:12

Fucking

1:19:12

mannequins? Brian told him,

1:19:14

I

1:19:14

get lonely down here and

1:19:16

they give me company.

1:19:18

That is like something that an over

1:19:20

the top caricature of a serial killer says

1:19:22

in a movie. Don't mind

1:19:23

my friends. They just keep

1:19:26

a company. Hey, can I tell you oh, can I tell you secret?

1:19:28

Sometimes I hear

1:19:29

them talk to me. Let's go

1:19:31

fucking the pool. Fuck me. Let's

1:19:33

go fuck me in the pool. In front of

1:19:35

my mannequins. Tony refused to accept a

1:19:38

drink

1:19:38

from Brian. Would you notice

1:19:40

seemed to upset him?

1:19:42

Guessing that drink was loaded with roofies? Brian

1:19:44

excused himself, and when he comes

1:19:46

back, he seems looser, less timid gabbier.

1:19:49

Tony suspects that Brian had done some

1:19:51

drugs while he was gone. These two men,

1:19:53

now take off, you know, they're close and begin swimming around the pool

1:19:55

in front of the fucking mannequins, talking

1:19:57

for a while and then

1:19:59

Brian tells Tony I

1:20:02

just

1:20:02

learned this really neat trick and

1:20:04

he picks up a hose and says, if you choke

1:20:06

someone with it while you're having sex, it feels really great.

1:20:08

You get a really great rush. You just wanna

1:20:10

pinch these two veins and it's such a great buzz.

1:20:12

You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them. Their

1:20:14

lips change color. That's how you can tell it's working.

1:20:17

Tony now becomes pretty nervous

1:20:20

and scared he said. Yeah. Especially

1:20:21

if earlier in

1:20:23

the evening, right? Brian had

1:20:25

told Tony you've been fucking killing

1:20:27

people. Which I do not

1:20:27

think happened. Right? I don't think the following would occur

1:20:29

if that did happen. But, again, who the fuck knows?

1:20:31

People are crazy. Brian now asked Tony to

1:20:33

wrap those the wrap that hoser

1:20:35

on his neck. Tony was too

1:20:37

afraid. So Brian does it. Right? So Tony knows it. Let let Tony wrap the hose around Brian's

1:20:39

neck, and then Brian

1:20:42

masturbates while Tony chokes

1:20:44

him. Weinstein and Wilson

1:20:46

would write in their book. The only way to find out how these particular sex games ended Tony reasoned

1:20:48

was to take it all

1:20:50

the way with this guy. Okay.

1:20:55

Tony now puts his hands on

1:20:57

Brian's neck and lays down and Brian

1:20:59

ties the hose around. Tony's throat to

1:21:01

this absurd. Again, toes Tony supposedly thinks this

1:21:04

guy is a killer, a killer who killed his friend, and

1:21:06

now he's letting his motherfucker tie a host around his neck.

1:21:08

In a pool, Started by mannequins. If we knew Tony had done this

1:21:10

and then Tony died, it'll be very hard to feel sorry for

1:21:13

him. Right? It

1:21:15

would feel less he was

1:21:17

the murder victim of a serial killer and more

1:21:19

like he had kind of killed himself through some kind of Darwin says he pretended

1:21:23

to go unconscious, And when he

1:21:25

did, the brine eased up on the pressure, then whispered his name by Tony. Tony. Tony still

1:21:27

didn't his eyes. So now, Brian begins shaking

1:21:30

him roughly when Tony then opens his

1:21:32

eyes. And

1:21:34

smiles, Brian says, she scared the shit out of

1:21:36

me. You know you can die doing

1:21:38

this. And then Creeply says, there have

1:21:42

been accidents. Tony says he now confronts him. Is

1:21:44

that what happened to Roger Goodlett? Was

1:21:46

he one of your accidents? Were there others?

1:21:49

And Brian doesn't answer. He just stares

1:21:51

at Tony, seeming not to understand it first, but then,

1:21:53

smiles a creepy smile. And then Brian's speech started to

1:21:55

slurry, fell asleep. Brian

1:21:59

okay a good

1:21:59

aka Herb. What's he doing here? How many men did

1:22:01

he just fuck

1:22:02

around with? And how many did he kill? What

1:22:04

was a trigger that made

1:22:06

him murder some, but not others? Tony now

1:22:08

decides to walk around the house while

1:22:10

Brian slash Herb sleeps. He didn't believe Herb story about this job. He finds

1:22:13

children's toys, women's clothing, and

1:22:15

rooms of the house, Tony

1:22:18

comes back downstairs, starts going to Brian's pants for his

1:22:20

wallet, wants to look at his ID to get his real name

1:22:22

to report him to the police, but then Brian wakes

1:22:24

up before Tony can find it. Now Tony convinces Brian

1:22:26

to drive him back to town. Tony, hey, you're

1:22:28

a good sport. You really know how to

1:22:30

play. The fuck is going on here. Now,

1:22:32

Brian asked Tony to meet him at the 501

1:22:35

club the next week. Tony

1:22:37

couldn't tell Vanigrip exactly where Brian lived, but he believed it was either Westfield or Carmel. Also wasn't able to

1:22:40

give Vanigrip a detailed description of the house

1:22:42

at least on the outside. It was too

1:22:44

dark. Vangriff

1:22:47

now has one of his employees wait outside the bar and the night Tony's supposed

1:22:49

to be Brian. The employee watches every driver who comes

1:22:51

to the bar, but none

1:22:53

of them matched the description

1:22:56

Tony gave. The bar closed and Brian never showed up.

1:22:58

Instead of giving up, you know, on what seemed to have maybe been a dead end, fucking

1:23:01

all in vanda griff in,

1:23:04

van degrift, Thanks Tony Harris, the detective Mary Wilson,

1:23:06

the Indianapolis PD now. Wilson previously worked in the sex crimes division now worked in missing persons.

1:23:08

Vanguard felt like

1:23:11

Wilson would take Tony seriously, Wilson was

1:23:13

a lead investigator on the Jeff Jones missing person's case. He was also looking at twenty year

1:23:15

old Richard Hamilton, twenty

1:23:18

one year old Johnny

1:23:20

Bear, twenty eight year old Alan

1:23:22

Livingston, and other missing gay men from the early nineties. All of them I named are suspected Bauma's true victim.

1:23:24

I didn't mention Alan earlier because his remains have still

1:23:26

not been found from what I can tell.

1:23:31

Tony told Mary what happened with Brian Smart and they

1:23:33

drove around the suburbs north of Indianapolis

1:23:35

looking for Brian's house, but couldn't

1:23:37

find it. Mary, still believing

1:23:39

crazy as Tony? Now sends plainclothes

1:23:41

officers to the 501 club, diversity, hour place, and other gay bars in

1:23:43

downtown India. She asked Tony to get Brian's plate number

1:23:45

if you ever saw him again at one of

1:23:48

these bars. Meanwhile,

1:23:51

Vandegrift continues looking into other disappearances. He

1:23:53

told author Joseph Gerenger, my client

1:23:55

had paid me what they could

1:23:57

afford to investigate the disappearances

1:23:59

of their sons. And even though the in Indianapolis police

1:24:01

had taken up the case now, I felt like I just couldn't drop it in their laps and walk

1:24:03

away. The money I was paid had long been used

1:24:05

up on equipment and man's salary, but that

1:24:08

didn't matter. I

1:24:10

feel like I'm on to something. Well,

1:24:12

that's my nature. Hey, I knew we were talking murder here. The existence

1:24:14

of what I smelled as a serial killer. Oh, fucking in.

1:24:19

Bill Hiseley, former state trooper sent to the search the search the suburbs for

1:24:22

Van de Griff. Bill ended up at the driveway

1:24:25

of Fox

1:24:28

Hollow Farms. And the estate matches Tony's description.

1:24:30

Nobody's home, so Bill sneaks around a bit,

1:24:32

peaks into the window,

1:24:35

sees that indoor pool. Later finds out

1:24:37

that the property belonged to the Balmeister family, Van Graff now has aerial photos taken to

1:24:39

the property, but when Tony looks at the pictures, he doesn't think

1:24:43

it's the right house. the is short. it. Damn it, Crazy,

1:24:45

Tony. Bill must not have seen those

1:24:47

mannequins. Maybe Herbert only brought

1:24:50

them out for special occasions.

1:24:52

In late nineteen ninety four, Herb's middle

1:24:54

child thirteen year old Eric finds human bones including a fucking skull in

1:24:57

the backyard of his

1:24:59

house. Right? Fox Sullivan. Leads

1:25:01

his mom Julie to a cluster of bones under some fallen leaves, then

1:25:03

Julie asks her what the hell is going on. She's out there she called

1:25:05

the police, but he talks her

1:25:07

out of it. He reassures

1:25:10

his family. The bones are

1:25:12

just bones from a med school

1:25:14

cadaver. Once owned by my daddy,

1:25:17

but does not explain how they

1:25:19

got in his backyard. Jesus

1:25:21

Christ. Herb, what

1:25:21

are these bones doing here?

1:25:23

Oh, those bones, those are

1:25:26

bones from my dad's. Cud Divers from med school.

1:25:33

That he gave them to me and I

1:25:35

forgot to mention it. The wire that is piled up under a

1:25:37

tree in her yard.

1:25:39

Well, let me well

1:25:42

let me answer your question

1:25:44

with another question. Have

1:25:46

you ever wondered what human

1:25:49

urine tastes like? Ever pondered that.

1:25:51

I bet it's sour, but I still don't know. Come on.

1:25:53

It's cold out. Let's go inside and discuss. I also

1:25:55

wanna show you some more mannequin at

1:25:57

your spot. Several days later, Julie notices

1:25:59

now that the bones are gone and assumes that an

1:26:01

animal has carried them off. She would tell people magazine

1:26:03

in December of nineteen ninety six, it wasn't like

1:26:05

I was sitting at home with nothing else to

1:26:08

Uh-huh. But you

1:26:08

were thinking at least a

1:26:09

little bit about the human fucking skull.

1:26:12

Your husband told you belong to one of

1:26:14

his dad's cadavers that he just I

1:26:16

don't know. Tossed

1:26:18

out in the yard. And then, you know, after showing herb the bones, they just magically disappeared. And he didn't want

1:26:20

you to talk

1:26:22

to the police. And

1:26:25

you think animals did that. And you didn't pursue

1:26:27

the further because didn't have enough to think more it. Isn't what you're saying now

1:26:30

we're saying here here? It's pretty

1:26:32

hard not to just think sometimes that

1:26:34

Julie is a fucking idiot. By the end

1:26:36

of nineteen ninety four, Save A Lot

1:26:39

was not doing well financially. Hard

1:26:41

to run a business when you're drinking with the employees at

1:26:43

work and killing people all the time. When you should be, you know, I don't know, selling second hand

1:26:47

jeans to them. Herb and Julie's marriage is at

1:26:49

an all time low, which is saying a lot. They're fighting stressed out from financial trouble.

1:26:52

Julie threatens to divorce Herb,

1:26:54

but doesn't go through with it.

1:26:57

Herb now becomes noticeably angrier. He becomes a lot more demanding of his employees, fires though.

1:26:59

He don't do exactly what he wants. He's still disappearing for hours at

1:27:01

a time, but now he's coming back

1:27:04

more often smelling

1:27:06

like alcohol. Save a lot was once known for

1:27:09

being very clean and tidy. Now the stores are getting

1:27:11

dirtier and dirtier. One employee said, everywhere

1:27:13

you look, there were mountains of garbage bags. It

1:27:15

was like working in the garbage heap. March thirty first nineteen

1:27:17

ninety five, forty six year old Michael

1:27:19

Frederick Kern goes

1:27:22

missing. Mike is reporting missing when he doesn't show up for work

1:27:24

at a factory. He is Herb's last known

1:27:26

victim. His bones also being found later

1:27:29

on the farm. Suspected victim, but, you know,

1:27:31

Come on. Her fucking kill him. June of nineteen ninety five,

1:27:33

in the midst of all this chaos, the Balmizers

1:27:35

opened a third Save A

1:27:37

Lot Store in Castleton. Also, they'll close their

1:27:39

first store on Arlington Avenue. So still

1:27:42

down to two. August eighth nineteen

1:27:44

ninety five, thirty four year old local gay

1:27:46

men, Jerry Williams Comer, last seen in downtown

1:27:48

Indiana list, never seen again. Jerry's partner Roy

1:27:50

Comer hadn't heard from him since August eighth. Jerry's car was found

1:27:52

at the Castleton Square Mall after

1:27:54

his disappearance, not a known victim.

1:27:58

His remains have yet to be found, but many

1:28:00

think Herb also killed him, which is

1:28:02

why I'm talking about him now. August twenty

1:28:04

ninth nineteen ninety five, Tony Harris finally sees

1:28:06

Brian smart again. At the Varsi land. Fuck yeah.

1:28:08

Find him sitting at the bar between

1:28:10

two mannequins talking about some piss,

1:28:13

or sit by himself. Had a drink. I

1:28:15

spoke with Brian and got his license plate number when

1:28:17

he left. Brian was driving a pickup truck that

1:28:19

day is plate number

1:28:21

752378 Authorities will quickly

1:28:23

determine is, you know, that is

1:28:26

registered to Herbert, Richard Baumeister

1:28:29

of Foxtel Farms Westfield, Indiana.

1:28:31

Finally, the walls are closing on this prick. After I don't know, I have a whole

1:28:33

bunch of meetings over how they're gonna, I guess, pursue him

1:28:35

or something. Over two months

1:28:37

later, on November first nineteen

1:28:40

ninety five, of Mary Wilson and lieutenant Thomas

1:28:42

Green speak to her about his Save A Lot store. One of them informed him that he is a suspect in

1:28:44

the disappearances of numerous

1:28:46

young gay men in Indianapolis.

1:28:49

Herbed denies ever going to these gay bars, and the detective tell him, well, his car has

1:28:51

been definitively identified as being there. And then her becomes visibly upset, says

1:28:54

no one's family knows he goes to these

1:28:56

bar. And

1:28:59

he now refuses to allow the police to search his property and tells him that he

1:29:02

will not speak with them going forward, they can communicate

1:29:04

to his lawyer. Detective Wilson now

1:29:06

decides to talk to his wife,

1:29:08

Julie, she refuses to

1:29:10

allow them to search the property. Her bed told her that the police were coming by and to not allow them to search the

1:29:12

property. And she did what

1:29:14

Herb says because, you know, That's

1:29:19

who Julie was. Julie told people magazine the police came to

1:29:21

me and said we are investigating your husband in

1:29:23

relation to homosexual homicide. I

1:29:26

remember saying to them, Can

1:29:27

you tell me what homosexual homicide is? I picture

1:29:29

Julie actually asking questions

1:29:30

as dumb as, what's a

1:29:34

homosexual? Julie did then confront Herb about

1:29:36

what the police told her, but

1:29:38

he dismissed everything and classic Julie. She

1:29:40

didn't

1:29:40

bring it up again. Alright?

1:29:42

Herb just told

1:29:43

her he was being victimized by disgruntled thrift

1:29:45

store employee and to keep the police off

1:29:47

the state and that is

1:29:49

that. Julie said that she was self preoccupied with her eighteen hour days at their two Save A

1:29:51

Lot thrift stores and taking care of the family that she didn't discuss the homicide

1:29:54

issue with her husband

1:29:56

again. Oh, yeah. That's it.

1:29:58

Too busy with work to find time to talk to your spouse about why the police think a

1:30:00

fucking

1:30:04

serial killer. That makes sense?

1:30:05

That adds up. Julie said she had no clue

1:30:07

zero zip

1:30:08

that her went to gay

1:30:10

bars and had sex with her

1:30:12

men. Who

1:30:14

do you think he was fucking Julie?

1:30:16

He's clearly not knocking your pussy out. Come on. Might might

1:30:18

wanna wonder what he's

1:30:19