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This is The Guardian. Today,

0:08

the story of a mum who gets the worst

0:10

phone call imaginable. And

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The day started as normal

1:00

as anything. My older daughter

1:03

is a former ski racer and

1:05

my younger son was competing

1:08

in a snowboarding event a few hours

1:10

away. And since my daughter is

1:12

a former racer, she thought, well, it'd be fun just

1:14

to jump in and join. So I just

1:16

told her to be safe.

1:18

Jennifer DeStefano lives in the US state

1:21

of Arizona. She's a mother of four, including

1:23

a 15-year-old called Brianna, or Bri.

1:27

I was down in the valley, it's a few hours south,

1:30

and all of a sudden I got a call from

1:32

an unknown number as I'm gathering my things,

1:34

getting out of my car in the parking lot.

1:36

Originally,

1:38

I was going to ignore it because I was trying to get

1:41

in to go meet my other daughter. And

1:43

the thought crossed my mind, well, I should answer

1:45

it because an unknown number is oftentimes

1:48

in a hospital or police or something like that. So

1:51

I decided to answer it as I had locked my

1:53

car and I was walking through the parking lot. And

1:55

it was my daughter, Brianna, crying

1:58

and sobbing, saying, I

2:00

messed up. So at

2:02

that point I was like, okay, wait, what's going on?

2:05

That's extreme. What happened? And

2:07

then all of a sudden she says, mom, these bad men have me.

2:09

Help me, help me, help me. And then the

2:12

phone gets pulled from her as her

2:14

voice fades off. And then that's when she

2:16

starts screaming, mom, please help me. Plead

2:18

in the background. And this man takes

2:21

over the phone and he says, listen here, I have

2:23

your daughter. You call the police,

2:25

you call anybody. I'm going to pop her stomach

2:28

so full of drugs. I'm going to have my way with her

2:29

and drop her in Mexico and you're never going to see her again.

2:36

Artificial intelligence has incredible

2:38

potential to change the way people communicate

2:41

and to help them do terrible things.

2:44

Today is the story of the latter and

2:47

how to protect yourself against that threat.

2:56

From The Guardian, I'm Michael Safi. Today

2:58

in focus, the era of AI scams

3:01

is already here. Are you ready?

3:10

So, Jennifer, what did you think as

3:12

you were given that terrible threat over

3:14

the phone? In that moment, the

3:16

way you feel is just sheer terror. And

3:19

I started screaming for help. One mom ran

3:21

outside and called 911. 911, do you

3:23

need police, fire or medical? 911, police.

3:26

I want to talk to my daughter. A mother just came

3:29

in, she received a phone call from

3:31

someone who has her daughter. Her

3:34

daughter, like I came out around the phone saying she wants

3:36

a million dollars.

3:37

He won't let her talk to her daughter. He's got her daughter.

3:40

The man was making all these threats, vulgar

3:42

threats. So I started

3:45

screaming at my daughter to call her dad,

3:47

call her brother. I'm trying to text my older

3:49

son. Help me, we've got to find

3:52

Bree. Something happened to her. Someone's kidnapped

3:54

her. As the man's making all these

3:56

threats, he then starts demanding

3:58

a ransom. And he wants originally...

3:59

million dollars, which that's

4:02

not possible. Are we

4:04

going to do this or are we not? Are you going to get me the money

4:06

or are we not? So he at

4:08

that point was demanding $50,000. They were demanding that

4:11

they were going to pick me up in a white van, that they're

4:13

going to put a bag over my head, I better have all $50,000

4:15

in cash. And they were going

4:17

to transport me to my daughter. And if I didn't have

4:19

all the cash, then we were both dead.

4:22

At that point, the mom

4:24

who had stepped outside to call 911 came

4:26

in and she said to me that 911 tipped

4:29

her off that there's a scam going around where

4:32

they can take someone's voice, they can do anything

4:34

with it. Okay, so that is

4:36

a very popular scam. This

4:39

is what they do to try and scare people to give them money.

4:41

I need somebody to try and get ahold of her daughter. Do you have

4:43

a phone number? I can get ahold of her daughter. Call

4:46

Brie. Call Brie. No, I'm not going to doubt. Okay, get

4:48

ahold of Brie. We need to see if she can get ahold of Brie. This is

4:50

a common sense. Okay, okay.

4:53

I didn't believe her. I was like, no, it's not just her

4:55

voice. It wasn't her voice recording. I had an

4:57

interaction. It was a conversation. She

4:59

was crying. She was sobbing at me. It was her.

5:01

Okay, do they have her on the phone?

5:04

No, no, Brie. Did they get Brie

5:06

on the phone? No, they can't get Brie

5:08

on the phone. There's a recording of her voice, but

5:11

that's it. Okay, what's her phone number? Can

5:13

you give me Brie's phone number?

5:17

Then the other mom finally was able to get my

5:20

husband on the phone and he went

5:22

running through the place where he was at with

5:24

my older daughter and was able to find my

5:27

older daughter safely resting in bed.

5:29

She has no idea what's going on. And

5:32

then all of a sudden the other mom comes to

5:34

me, she's like, look, your daughter's safe. She's with your husband.

5:37

They found her. Okay. And she's okay.

5:39

And she's okay? Yeah.

5:41

Okay. This is something that they're popular to do.

5:43

They try and scare people and it works as

5:46

long as Brie's okay. And I still

5:48

was so sure

5:51

of my daughter's voice and I had spoken to her. I was

5:53

like, I couldn't wrap my head

5:55

around. I'm like, I need to talk to my daughter. I need to really

5:57

validate who I'm talking to and who's

5:59

really real. I kept asking

6:02

her over and over again, are you sure? Are

6:04

you sure you were safe? Are you sure this is the real

6:06

Brianna? Who's the real Brianna? I'm not

6:08

really sure who I've even been speaking to, but

6:11

after a couple of interchanges and I

6:13

was confident it was her. We already

6:15

reported you to the police

6:17

and then hang up.

6:18

Okay. Thank you. Thank

6:21

you very much. You're welcome. Have a good night. Okay.

6:25

At that point I hung up with them. I literally

6:30

then just collapsed the floor, started

6:32

sobbing, trying to process everything

6:34

that just happened. I mean, you've got the fear that

6:37

then turns into relief, but then you're

6:39

trying to process what did just happen.

6:41

Do they know where I am? Because they're

6:43

making threats to come get me. Do they know where she

6:46

is? And

6:47

then I was furious. Then

6:49

my fear turned into fury that

6:51

this is the lowest of the low money scam

6:53

I've ever heard of in my entire life. That's

6:56

what's crazy. Like they're stealing an

6:58

identity. It's not just a voice. It's

7:00

an identity. It's the way they talk. It's the

7:02

way they respond. It's their mannerisms,

7:05

the way they cry, the way they saw, the way they look,

7:07

they can do video, right? So

7:10

it is really a stolen identity and they're

7:12

using that identity for

7:14

evil.

7:25

Oliver Devane, you're a senior researcher at the

7:28

computer security company McAfee. We've

7:30

just been hearing about the absolutely shocking

7:33

AI scam that Jennifer DiStefano

7:35

was subjected to.

7:36

How does the technology in that scam

7:39

work? So how it works is

7:41

you first need to get a original audio

7:43

clip of someone speaking. And once you

7:45

have that, you can either make use of software

7:48

that's on your local box, or you can upload

7:50

it to a service provider where you

7:52

basically upload the audio and it will then

7:55

generate a synthetic clone that

7:57

sounds just like the original.

7:59

I mean, that same really simple but also

8:02

pretty incredible technology. The

8:04

people who invented the ability

8:06

to do this, what did they have in mind that

8:09

it would be used for? I

8:10

mean there would be lots of use cases

8:12

for this technology. I'm sure that none of them

8:15

would have created it for scammers. So

8:17

one of them would be, you

8:18

know, if someone's not necessarily comfortable speaking

8:21

at public events or even on the phone, they'd

8:24

be able to generate a voice clone of

8:26

themselves. They'd be able to communicate with

8:28

their friends and loved ones. Another use

8:30

case would be if someone is ill, it's

8:33

imagine if someone has throat cancer and they

8:35

may potentially lose the ability to speak,

8:37

well they'd be able to use this technology to clone

8:39

their voice

8:40

so that in years to come they'd still be able to communicate

8:43

with their friends using their original voice. I

8:46

mean all of that sounds really promising,

8:48

a really great use of this technology but it's

8:51

also so far away from the way it's being

8:53

used in Jennifer's case. One

8:56

of the things that she was wondering is where

8:58

they got the samples of Brianna's voice

9:00

because she's not a celebrity,

9:02

she's not someone who,

9:04

for example, hosts a podcast whose voice would

9:07

be kind of out there. She's just a kid

9:09

growing up in the suburbs. She did a radio

9:11

interview, she's done some sports interviews,

9:14

she has 32 followers on TikTok, it's very private,

9:17

it's dancing, it's not vocalisation,

9:20

there's no crying, there's no sobbing, she's not even talking.

9:23

So where they got the crying and sobbing, where they

9:25

tracked her mannerisms and the way she,

9:27

her personality profile, if you will,

9:29

that's what's baffling to me. So really

9:32

that's where it starts to become scary.

9:34

So where would they have gotten

9:37

her voice samples from? So Jennifer

9:39

did say that her daughter did have a social media account,

9:42

albeit you know there wasn't many followers

9:44

but people would still be able to access and view

9:47

those postings. There was also a talk there

9:49

of radio interviews which would be

9:52

kind of like a perfect source.

9:54

Most people use social media these days

9:56

and you know people are pretty comfortable uploading

9:59

a very short video. on TikTok or

10:01

Instagram for example and that's

10:03

kind of all they need. You don't need a

10:05

very long audio clip for someone,

10:08

you could have a 30 second clip that you

10:10

could take from a video

10:11

and then use one of these services to actually clone

10:14

the voice. And also, once

10:16

you generate the voice, you are able to alter

10:19

it and change the speed and change the tone

10:21

of the audio that has been generated so you can

10:23

make it appear that people are either

10:26

happy or in distress potentially.

10:29

What's interesting too about this story is

10:31

that they happen to call Jennifer at a time

10:33

when Brianna was away, when she wasn't

10:36

just in the next room. You know, Jennifer couldn't walk

10:38

into the living room and say, no, Brianna's here, she hasn't

10:40

been kidnapped. Do you often see

10:43

that these scams are obviously

10:45

very technologically sophisticated but they also

10:48

seem to have this kind of social element where

10:50

the scammer has researched

10:53

an aspect of your life. They know a little bit

10:55

about your whereabouts, your interests, all

10:57

these things that help to make it sound more

10:59

authentic.

11:00

For sure. And I think this is where the

11:02

social media aspect comes into play. So

11:05

let's imagine a scenario where I'm on holiday

11:07

in the south of France and I am going out

11:10

to a restaurant for dinner. So I could post

11:12

that, hey, I'm going out to this lovely

11:14

restaurant. What a scammer could do is he

11:17

could actually see that post occur and

11:19

then say an hour later, he'd be able to message

11:21

someone and say, hey, I was at this restaurant

11:24

and I damaged my phone so I'm not able

11:26

to contact you, but you know,

11:28

something bad's happened and I need help. And

11:31

because he would be using the information

11:33

that I've posted on social media, it's much

11:35

more believable because if my friends are following me,

11:37

they will know that I actually went to

11:39

that restaurant and I was there. So it just

11:42

kind of adds that extra layer

11:44

of truthfulness to the actual scam.

11:55

Obviously, online

11:57

scams are nothing new, but there does

11:59

seem to be some something particularly insidious

12:02

and invasive about the way this technology

12:04

is used. How widespread

12:07

do we think these kinds of voice

12:09

powered AI scams are?

12:12

They are fairly widespread. So McAfee released

12:14

a report earlier this year, and in that we

12:16

did a survey across the globe. And

12:18

from that survey, we identified around

12:21

one in four British people

12:23

have experienced or know someone who

12:25

has received an AI voice clone scam. One

12:27

in four? Yeah, which is

12:29

a very high number. But what this illustrates

12:33

is that it is increasing, but

12:35

also I would say that

12:37

these types of scams are underreported.

12:40

Because unfortunately,

12:42

when people fall victim to these types of scams,

12:44

they don't tend to tell anyone, they tend

12:46

to feel

12:47

a little bit embarrassed that they

12:49

have fallen victim to it and they fell for it.

12:52

But actually, there is nothing to be embarrassed

12:54

about. And they are very convincing.

12:57

And I would urge anyone listening to this now,

13:00

if you have fallen victim to this, then please

13:02

report it to the authorities. Go to action

13:04

forward and let them know what happened so

13:07

that the police can investigate it.

13:09

What's really surprising is how

13:11

accessible this kind of technology is already.

13:14

We found some software on the internet that claims

13:17

to be able to simulate people's voices and we

13:19

fed my own into it and here was

13:21

the result.

13:23

Want to get rich quick? Invest now in

13:25

Michael Saficoin, the hottest cryptocurrency

13:28

on the market. Don't wait, you won't regret it.

13:30

I think that sounds nothing like me for the record.

13:33

I definitely should not be replaced

13:35

by AI anytime soon, but it is

13:37

pretty shocking how easy that was to

13:39

get. It cost us a dollar and we had to tick a box

13:41

promising that we wouldn't use the voice clone

13:43

for anything illegal, fraudulent or harmful.

13:46

And once we had ticked that box, we had full access

13:49

to the technology. So given

13:51

how easy this is to get, what

13:54

are the other ways that people are using

13:56

this kind of software to scam

13:59

people to steal their money?

14:00

We have definitely seen the use of AI voice

14:02

clones as well as deep fake videos being used

14:05

for investment scams. And there was even

14:07

a case recently where Martin Lewis

14:09

was being used to advertise a crypto

14:11

investment scam. The money expert,

14:13

I mean, someone people really trust. Yes, exactly.

14:17

Elon Musk presented his new project in

14:19

which he has already invested more than $3 billion.

14:22

Musk's new project opens up great investment

14:24

opportunities.

14:25

Gosh, Martin, I mean, that is terrifying,

14:27

isn't it? It looks like you.

14:29

It sounds like you.

14:32

Yeah, I'm even wearing I think the same shirt that

14:34

I'm wearing today when the image has been taken from

14:36

this is a deep fake. This is still only early

14:38

stages of the technology and they are only

14:41

going to get better.

14:42

So in that case, it was Martin Lewis. We've also

14:45

seen Elon Musk being used a lot, especially

14:47

around crypto investment scams.

14:49

The other thing that strikes me about this is

14:52

in relative terms, we're in the infancy of

14:54

AI. This technology is only

14:57

going to get better at an exponential

14:59

rate over the next few years. Like

15:02

in the same way, are the scams going to get

15:04

more sophisticated?

15:05

What we believe is going to happen is the scams are going

15:07

to become more personalized. So deep

15:10

down, the scams tend to remain

15:12

the same. So even the AI voice

15:15

clone is just kind of a variation of the Hey, Mum

15:17

scam that's been around for a while. That's

15:19

the scam where you might get a text from someone saying, Hey,

15:22

Mum, I need some money urgently. Please send

15:24

it to this account.

15:25

Exactly that. Yeah, exactly.

15:28

So what they're doing is they're using the technology to

15:30

make it more personalized and make it seem more believable.

15:33

But the actual fundamentals of the scam

15:35

remain the same.

15:39

Coming up, why when Jennifer went

15:41

to the police,

15:42

they said there wasn't much they could do.

15:53

So you're driving to work, biking to a friend's

15:55

place or on the way to your next vacation.

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the go.

16:23

Jennifer, what happened in the days

16:26

after that call? Did you try to follow

16:28

it up with the police?

16:30

When I called the police and reported what had happened,

16:33

she had said that there

16:35

was nothing they could do because no

16:37

one had been kidnapped, no money had been transferred.

16:40

So therefore it was a

16:42

prank call, unfortunately, and no crime had been committed.

16:45

It was a prank call, like this threat

16:47

that your daughter had been kidnapped,

16:49

she could be harmed, they wanted at one stage a million

16:51

dollars. It was a prank.

16:54

It was a prank call. I said to

16:56

her, I understand there's these AI calls and they're

16:58

trying to scam money. However, they were trying to

17:00

make arrangements to come physically pick me up.

17:03

And isn't there something that can be done?

17:05

And it was no, sorry, I'm

17:07

sure you're not in harm's way. She's like, all I

17:10

can offer you is I can have a police officer call

17:12

you from an unknown number, which

17:14

was the number that I had answered

17:16

to begin with. So she had offered

17:19

to have a police officer call me just to

17:21

reassure me that I'm probably

17:23

safe. And I said, yes.

17:26

However, I missed that unknown call. I

17:29

was in the shower when they attempted to call

17:31

an hour later and then I never got another

17:33

call back.

17:35

From the tone of the police officer

17:37

on your 911 call, it sounded

17:39

like this is actually a pretty common scam

17:41

that they see. Have you spoken

17:43

to anyone else who's been the victim of it?

17:46

Yeah. So we have an online bulletin board,

17:48

it's called Nextdoor. So it's

17:50

just neighbours within the geographical region.

17:52

So I put it out as the community

17:55

message board and then I had hundreds of

17:57

responses, hundreds. So many people

17:59

came forward with.

17:59

this happened to my father, this happened

18:02

to me, this happened to my mother, this happened to my friend.

18:05

One literally was halfway driving down to Mexico

18:07

with a bag of cash to go meet somebody.

18:09

Someone else showed up at their door. And

18:13

the stories went so far and wide and

18:16

I was shocked. I was so baffled that this

18:18

has been going on and to the point where people are making

18:20

human contact with these perpetrators.

18:23

There was one mom in our studio whose cousin

18:25

had this happened to and it showed up as a call from

18:28

her daughter's phone. So it was her daughter's face,

18:29

her daughter's number. She had no

18:32

doubt because it was her daughter calling her as

18:34

well as her daughter's voice. She transferred

18:36

the money, it dead ended to Mexico

18:38

and then it was well announced in international affair and that's

18:41

nothing more that can be done.

18:43

The The

18:48

The

18:50

Oliver, we've just heard from Jennifer that despite

18:53

the completely terrifying ordeal

18:55

that she went through, the police treated

18:57

what had happened to her as nothing

18:59

more than a prank phone call. And in

19:01

the months since, Jennifer has fought

19:04

to have this crime taken more seriously.

19:06

She recently testified in front of the US

19:08

Congress.

19:09

It was my daughter's voice. It was her cries.

19:12

It was her sobs. It was the way she spoke.

19:14

I will never be able to shake that voice and

19:16

the desperate cries for help out of my mind. The

19:19

longer this form of terror remains unpunishable, the

19:22

farther and more egregious it will become. There

19:24

is no limit to the depth of evil AI can

19:26

enable. But

19:28

given how difficult this crime

19:30

seems to be for police to investigate, is

19:33

it something that we as individuals need

19:35

to figure out how to protect ourselves from?

19:38

And if so, how do we do that?

19:41

So usually how these scams would happen is they

19:43

would contact you from a new number. So

19:46

if you receive any communication from a

19:48

new number claiming to be someone you already

19:50

know,

19:51

then we would advise you to try and contact

19:53

that person on the number that you have associated

19:55

with them. So that would be the first warning

19:57

sign. And something else.

19:59

out for is when they try to raise urgency

20:02

and they try to make you act quickly without

20:04

really having time to think

20:06

and send them money without giving it

20:08

too much thought because if you were to step

20:11

back and wait a few minutes and think about

20:13

it you would probably start to realize that you know this

20:15

is very suspicious and this is more than

20:17

likely a scam

20:18

but the fundamental of the scam

20:20

will be the same so if you're aware of the warning

20:22

signs and you know the things to look out for

20:25

then you should be able to protect yourself against

20:27

them.

20:28

So what are those warning signs? So

20:30

there are four things that we would recommend.

20:32

So the first one would be to create a codeword.

20:35

So this codeword you would create

20:38

with your family and friends and if there

20:40

ever is an emergency then you would

20:42

use that codeword to let the person who you're calling

20:44

know that it is legitimately you.

20:46

Okay codeword what next? So

20:48

the second thing we would recommend is to question the source.

20:51

So as I mentioned earlier if you receive a

20:53

message or a phone call from an unknown

20:55

number you should be a little bit suspicious if

20:57

they're claiming to be someone you know you

20:59

know and if you're not able to verify that. Even

21:02

if they sound like someone you know. Even

21:04

if they sound like someone you know. So

21:06

if you if you receive a call from an unknown number

21:08

and they claim to be let's say your brother then

21:11

you know we would advise to

21:13

not interact with that person and actually

21:15

try to contact your brother via the usual

21:17

method so you would call him on his usual number.

21:19

The third thing we would

21:21

advise is to kind of think before you share. So this

21:24

is around social media. So

21:26

as I mentioned I mean if I'm on a holiday

21:29

and if I'm constantly posting say like

21:31

hourly updates of what I'm doing where I'm

21:33

at then that provides information to the scammer

21:35

that they can use you know to scam your

21:38

friends. And you know you can

21:40

still let everyone know what an amazing time you had

21:42

and everything you did

21:43

but maybe wait a few days to

21:45

actually let them know. Interesting and what's

21:47

the last one? And the last one we

21:49

would recommend is to use a identity theft

21:52

protection service and what this would

21:54

do is it would monitor your personal details online.

21:56

So if they do become available say on the dark web

21:58

then they'll

21:59

let me know. you know that this has happened and I'll provide

22:01

you steps to take in order to

22:04

protect yourself. Okay. So these are services

22:06

that are constantly scanning Dark

22:08

Web, scanning the internet for any time that

22:10

your personal information pops up.

22:12

Exactly that. Yeah. And

22:14

do you in your own life, I mean, implement all

22:17

of these security measures, the code words,

22:19

the questioning, all of these things? Yes,

22:21

I do. So, yeah. So earlier this year,

22:24

I set up a codeword with my family, not

22:26

my Sunday, he's a little bit too young, but when he's older,

22:29

I will for sure set one up with

22:31

him. All right. I hope you never have to use it.

22:33

Yeah, fingers crossed. Jennifer,

22:44

finally, has

22:45

this changed the way that

22:47

you and your family live your lives,

22:50

communicate with each other? What's been the

22:52

legacy of this completely

22:54

terrifying incident?

22:56

My daughters are definitely more aware

22:59

now after this event, my

23:01

older daughter now is concerned, you know, someone following

23:03

me, someone tracking me, are they coming after my siblings?

23:06

Are they coming after me personally? And

23:08

unfortunately, now you kind of, you

23:11

have to teach your children and your loved ones, you

23:13

can't trust everything you hear, you can't trust everything

23:16

you see. This is uncharted

23:19

waters. So you're trying to navigate

23:21

an unknown that's so hard

23:23

and nearly impossible because you can't navigate

23:25

what you don't know. That's

23:26

scary. Jennifer, thank

23:29

you so much for sharing your story. Thank

23:31

you so much for having me. Thanks for the global

23:33

awareness, too. That's the only way we're all going to get ahead

23:35

of it is if we all come together on it.

23:39

That was Jennifer DiStefano who wrote about

23:41

her story for The Guardian. You can find it at our

23:44

website. Thanks also to Oliver

23:46

Devane who researches these security

23:48

threats for the digital security company McAfee.

23:51

Before we go on this week's Science Weekly, Madeline

23:54

Finlay speaks to The Guardian's technology reporter,

23:56

Hibag Farah, about world coin, a

23:58

new cryptocurrency offering users tokens

24:00

in exchange for a scan of their eyeballs. Hebagh

24:03

explains what the motives behind the company are,

24:06

why they think we all need to become verified humans,

24:09

and how governments have responded to the project.

24:11

And that is it for today. This episode was

24:13

produced by Tom Glasser and Eli Block. Sound

24:16

designs by Rudy Zagadlo. The executive

24:18

producers were Homer Kalili and Sami Kent,

24:21

and we'll be back tomorrow.

24:29

This is The Guardian.

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