0:02

I mean, like you

0:02

said, our bodies specifically

0:05

our feet and legs are our most

0:05

important tool in our toolbox

0:09

and thinking about your body is

0:09

even more important than that.

0:12

It's what's actually allowing

0:12

you to do all this. And so

0:14

taking care of your body is so

0:14

very important. And oftentimes

0:18

you have to do that to the

0:18

detriment of progress. But it's,

0:22

you know, if you don't, then

0:22

there'll be no progress.

0:26

Following is an

0:26

interview with Chris Carter,

0:28

American born and Kenyan, raised

0:28

son of missionaries, artist,

0:34

filmmaker, masters of

0:34

Intercultural Studies student

0:39

and Triple Crown through hiker,

0:39

the ultimate Nomad, he's talking

0:43

about the most important tools

0:43

of his or any human beings

0:47

trade. I'm Thom Pollard. This is

0:47

tools for nomads, where you meet

0:52

inspiring, insightful,

0:52

passionate individuals, nomads

0:57

like me, who are driven by their

0:57

creativity, and an insatiable

1:02

desire and curiosity to reveal

1:02

the answers to life's big

1:07

questions. Wherever you're

1:07

listening, please be sure to

1:11

subscribe, give us a rating and

1:11

a review. The YouTube version of

1:16

this interview will be on our

1:16

YouTube page in one week's time,

1:20

please find us there too. And

1:20

subscribe and let us know what

1:25

you think. I met Chris Carter

1:25

after stumbling across a film of

1:30

his on YouTube called to measure

1:30

a mile about his Pacific Crest

1:36

Trail through hike. What amazed

1:36

me and prompted me to reach out

1:41

to Chris Was that his film

1:41

wasn't so much about the arduous

1:46

physical demands of a 2600 mile

1:46

hike, but about the spiritual

1:52

trials and tribulations of a

1:52

human being. To measure a mile

1:56

is like a poem in beautiful

1:56

living color, where the

2:00

protagonist goes into the church

2:00

of nature on a vision quest. To

2:05

date the film has over 561,000

2:05

views and counting. Chris was

2:13

raised in Kenya. He's the son of

2:13

missionaries. He's an artist and

2:18

community development worker

2:18

currently living and working and

2:22

studying in Chattanooga,

2:22

Tennessee, growing up in Kenya,

2:27

East Africa, where his parents

2:27

work in the medical field. Chris

2:31

was exposed from a young age to

2:31

a wild and Spartan lifestyle

2:36

with the Maasai and Kikuyu

2:36

people that they lived amongst.

2:41

From month long dirt bike trips

2:41

through the bush of East Africa,

2:45

sleeping in trees to escape

2:45

packs of hungry hyenas, to

2:50

primitive hunting trips with

2:50

Maasai warriors. Chris was

2:54

constantly in search of unique

2:54

and radical adventures, and

2:59

truly learned how to live like a

2:59

nomad. He is the ultimate

3:04

definition of that word. And

3:04

five years younger than half my

3:08

age, I discovered a mature and

3:08

wise soul beyond his years.

3:13

Chris now lives and works in

3:13

Chattanooga, Tennessee, going to

3:17

grad school, pursuing his

3:17

master's in intercultural

3:21

studies at Fuller Seminary, his

3:21

artwork and pencil drawings of

3:25

giraffes and elephants look more

3:25

like a photograph than a

3:29

drawing. He's a long distance

3:29

trail runner, a rock climber in

3:34

the United States. He's

3:34

completed the Triple Crown of

3:37

thru hikes, more than 10,000

3:37

miles of thru hiking, the John

3:42

Muir Trail, the Pacific Crest

3:42

Trail, Continental Divide Trail,

3:46

and the Appalachian Trail during

3:46

a zero day hike, as they call it

3:51

when they don't go anywhere.

3:51

Chris known as rad on the trail

3:56

and his trail partner Wow.

3:56

Stopped at our house where I

4:00

interviewed him about the life

4:00

of a nomad. He speaks fluent

4:04

Swahili, but we spoke for the

4:04

purposes of this podcast in

4:09

English. He's a nomad in the

4:09

truest sense. The road is his

4:14

home. He knows how to pack

4:14

light, light and even lighter,

4:19

so very light that he actually

4:19

borrows clothes in order to do

4:23

his laundry. He understands how

4:23

to endure a world of physical,

4:27

mental and emotional pain in the

4:27

name of reaching his goal while

4:32

conveying the most positive,

4:32

affirming and kind mindset of

4:37

any I've yet to meet. Chris,

4:37

like other thru hikers shortens

4:43

the names of the Pacific Crest

4:43

Trail, Continental Divide Trail

4:47

and Appalachian Trail to PCT

4:47

CDT, and at here's Chris Carter

4:54

of Chattanooga, Tennessee from

4:54

my home in New Hampshire.

5:00

Have you had a you had not the

5:00

kind of upbringing that someone

5:05

like myself had who grew up in

5:05

you know, rural Barb's you know,

5:09

suburb and I suppose America,

5:09

and you were brought up in

5:15

Kenya. And so your experience

5:15

might be different than some

5:20

American kid or European kid

5:20

growing up who just wants to get

5:23

out of the house from mom and

5:23

dad or see what you know, see

5:26

what the trail might have to

5:26

bring? So, could you tell me a

5:31

little bit about your experience

5:31

growing up, because it's truly a

5:34

fascinating upbringing, that it

5:34

to me is one of the most

5:37

interesting aspects of your

5:37

story. A lot of ways.

5:41

Yeah. So I was

5:41

born in America, but we moved to

5:45

Kenya when I was, I think seven

5:45

years old. And so I was very

5:49

young, I don't remember much

5:49

about America beforehand. And my

5:52

parents were missionaries. My

5:52

dad was a nurse and worked at

5:57

our, an international school

5:57

there and also at a hospital. My

6:00

mom was a teacher. And so yeah,

6:00

it was, you know, from a young

6:05

age, that was my home, Kenya was

6:05

my home, I didn't really, it

6:09

didn't really register to me

6:09

much that I was American, per

6:13

se, are that America was my

6:13

identity. You know, my friends

6:16

were Kenyan, along with other

6:16

missionary kids from all over

6:19

the world. We were at an

6:19

international school. So it was,

6:22

you know, not just America,

6:22

there was Australians, you know,

6:26

New Zealand and Korea and all

6:26

over the UK. And it was this

6:30

beautiful kind of conglomeration

6:30

of different perspectives and

6:34

worldviews all set within this

6:34

African context in a very rural

6:38

kind of village setting in one

6:38

respect. And so it was it was

6:43

incredible to get this from a

6:43

young age, a broader perspective

6:48

on the world, I think. But it

6:48

did make coming to America a bit

6:53

of a challenge with the

6:53

transition, because I look more

6:56

American than most Americans

6:56

have blond hair, blue eyes and

7:00

pale skin. And so someone

7:00

doesn't look at me. And they're

7:02

like, oh, he doesn't know what a

7:02

hashtag is, or how to do this,

7:05

like you do, they just assume

7:05

that I know, American culture.

7:09

And so a lot of times were

7:09

labeled as hidden immigrants,

7:11

because we grew up overseas,

7:11

and, you know, I speak Swahili,

7:15

I understand the culture of

7:15

Kenya really well, and almost

7:17

like Kenya still feels like home

7:17

to me. But I'm not Kenyan. I'm

7:22

American, you know. And so but

7:22

that background is, has

7:27

influenced most of the decisions

7:27

I've made in life, from my

7:31

education to the things that I

7:31

do like these thru hikes. You

7:36

know, I was just exposed from a

7:36

young age to this absolutely

7:41

beautiful and wild way of

7:41

outdoor living, because that's

7:44

just kind of the way of life out

7:44

there. You know, the notion of

7:47

like an indoor zine and

7:47

outdoorsy person is not

7:50

something that I had had a lot

7:50

of experience with in Africa.

7:53

Everyone's just kind of an

7:53

outdoorsy person. By necessity.

7:56

They're either agrarian farmers,

7:56

or they're pastoralists, hurting

7:59

camels, and cows and goats. And

7:59

that's just their way of life.

8:03

They're outside most of the

8:03

time. And so this notion that,

8:06

like, you have to really try to,

8:06

like get outside in the West was

8:10

very new to me. And so I really

8:10

resonated when I came here and

8:15

clicked with the, the through

8:15

hiking community, the rock

8:18

climbing community, the trail

8:18

running community that kind of

8:21

became my people here, because

8:21

that was what I connected with

8:24

the most. And so So yeah, but

8:24

you know, it's it's calm,

8:29

constantly learning what it

8:29

means to be a missionary kid who

8:34

grew up in Kenya, but as

8:34

American, and I have now lived

8:39

in America for long enough where

8:39

I have an American identity. And

8:43

I feel very American in some

8:43

respects in the way that I think

8:46

and act and operate. I've got my

8:46

own community of people here.

8:50

You know, a big part of these

8:50

trips, these thru hikes, the

8:53

PCT, the CDT and now the at has

8:53

been to really discover more

8:57

about kind of my own core

8:57

identity and who I am as a

9:01

Kenyan, as well as an American,

9:01

but also to really get a broader

9:06

perspective on American culture

9:06

in all its different facets,

9:10

because these three trails have

9:10

put me through the most

9:14

beautiful terrain and landscapes

9:14

of America, but also huge

9:19

diversity of culture in

9:19

different contexts in America,

9:22

so everywhere from like, nudist

9:22

colonies in Southern California

9:28

to super rural, you know, one

9:28

horse town villages up in

9:33

Montana, where there's three

9:33

people and they all just sit

9:36

outside on their front porch

9:36

drinking beer all day, and it's

9:40

this beautiful little snapshots

9:40

of America that I've gotten that

9:43

I wouldn't get otherwise if I

9:43

just kind of stayed in

9:46

Chattanooga, which is where I

9:46

ended up going to college when I

9:49

came to America. And it's just

9:49

that's been a really cool way

9:53

for me to kind of understand

9:53

more of my heritage, more of my

9:56

parents heritage and kind of

9:56

what it means to be a man Eric

10:00

can, because it's something that

10:00

I'm kind of constantly learning.

10:03

Well, that's, that

10:03

is really pretty exceptional.

10:07

And but you didn't talk about

10:07

some other aspects of growing up

10:13

in Kenya. And you know, the

10:13

international students obviously

10:16

was a big influence on you.

10:16

Because here's a group of kids

10:20

growing up from different, you

10:20

know, Australia, as you said, or

10:23

England or Korea or wherever

10:23

that may be. But you were also

10:27

in close contact with the people

10:27

of Africa of Kenya. And as a

10:32

child, I personally grew up like

10:32

watching all the documentaries I

10:36

could possibly see on on Africa.

10:36

And the Maasai was one of those

10:40

the the Maasai we were, they

10:40

were called warriors in the

10:43

films I saw. And I'm not sure if

10:43

that's, I don't even know if

10:46

that is right there, these tall

10:46

people, and they had ornate

10:51

beautiful jewelry and colorful

10:51

clothing. But, and I would see

10:55

these sometimes just these

10:55

dances or something, but I knew

10:58

so little about what the culture

10:58

really was. And you told me

11:02

recently that you would walk in

11:02

to a village where they had

11:06

never some people might never

11:06

have even seen this might not

11:09

even be the Messiah, but had

11:09

seen a white person you walk in

11:12

and boom, and you lay out some

11:12

Swahili and perfect Swahili and

11:16

they all their eyes pop out of

11:16

their heads, right. So that's,

11:19

that's an interesting exposure

11:19

there. And you're out in the

11:22

field with some of these people

11:22

experiencing life. So could you

11:25

just kind of interject a little

11:25

bit about that? Yeah, for

11:28

sure. I mean, I it

11:28

was an interesting place where I

11:32

grew up because I had a lot of

11:32

other Western you could say

11:35

friends that were other

11:35

missionaries, or NGO workers or

11:39

aid workers and their kids that

11:39

I grew up with, but then it was

11:41

kind of half half was like

11:41

Kenyan friends and American

11:44

friends. And we lived actually

11:44

up in the highlands and

11:48

beautiful, beautiful place

11:48

called Kajabi, which is right in

11:51

the escarpment of the Great Rift

11:51

Valley. And the people group

11:55

that we were with were the

11:55

Kikuyu, but it was kind of right

11:58

on the border between moss

11:58

Island and cuckoo land and

12:01

Kuyou. Our farmers and the

12:01

Maasai were pastoralists and

12:05

herdsmen. And so dropping down

12:05

in the valley, he was kind of

12:08

this quintessential desert

12:08

landscape with acacia trees and

12:11

giraffes running around. And

12:11

that's where the moss I lived.

12:14

And then we were up in kind of

12:14

this temperate forest with the

12:18

the Kikuyu, which was the

12:18

beautiful waterfalls and lush

12:21

forest and greenery. And it was

12:21

this beautiful place to grow up

12:25

some of the emergence of the

12:25

two. But But yeah, it was this,

12:29

it was, you know, where I grew

12:29

up was interesting, because you

12:31

could kind of choose to not

12:31

fully invest in the culture

12:36

because I was I grew up at an

12:36

international school, where it

12:39

was kind of a little separated

12:39

from like the local school or

12:43

the local community or the local

12:43

village. And so there were some

12:47

of my friends that just decided

12:47

to kind of stay in the compound

12:50

in the mission compound, and not

12:50

really try to get out there and

12:53

experience Kenyan culture and

12:53

learn Swahili and understand,

12:57

you know, all of this beautiful,

12:57

intricate life going on around

13:01

us. But for me, that was one of

13:01

the cruxes of living in Africa.

13:04

And the most beautiful part for

13:04

me, was getting to go out and

13:08

actually interact on a very deep

13:08

intimate level with with the

13:12

Messiah and the Kikuyu community

13:12

that we lived with. And so from

13:15

a young age, we there's kind of

13:15

a tradition of going on these

13:19

long motorcycle journeys and

13:19

dirt bikes. And that was just

13:23

like, kind of this thing that

13:23

from when I first went to

13:27

Africa, I would look up to these

13:27

guys higher and high school and

13:31

they would get up on their big

13:31

250 motorcycles and battle out

13:35

into the valley and come back

13:35

and regale us with tales of

13:38

chasing down herds of giraffe

13:38

and zebra and just I was like,

13:42

That's ridiculous. And so I got

13:42

my first motorcycle when I was

13:46

really young, a little Honda 50

13:46

and started putting around and

13:50

learning and as I grew older,

13:50

you know, our parents were able

13:53

to acquire some bigger and

13:53

bigger bikes and that just kind

13:55

of became our conduit for these

13:55

super long beautiful journeys.

14:00

And that's really where I

14:00

started getting this passion for

14:04

things like through hiking and

14:04

just going on these long

14:08

journeys that when you look back

14:08

on them, you're like I was nuts

14:11

so much happened. And it's I did

14:11

a lot of backpacking and hiking

14:16

and trekking but I found on the

14:16

motorcycle we could just go to

14:19

such remote distant areas and

14:19

really come in contact with

14:23

these people that we would never

14:23

see if we tried to get there

14:27

with a car or just general kind

14:27

of touristy areas mean we would

14:30

go out there for a month at a

14:30

time sometimes. So pretty much

14:34

from I'd say Junior High all

14:34

through high school. I was any

14:38

free time we had every break

14:38

from school we were just

14:42

enthralled and getting on our

14:42

motorcycles and battling out as

14:45

far as we could into the bush

14:45

and you know, sleeping in trees

14:49

because of hyenas and making

14:49

these like ones we would you

14:54

know when we first started we

14:54

would actually kind of like tie

14:56

ourselves to the trees because

14:56

sometimes honey would come

15:00

around our camp at night, maybe

15:00

we're cooking some meat or

15:02

something and they start getting

15:02

attracted to it and they charge

15:06

in and we're like, oh, man, we

15:06

got to get up in the trees. And

15:09

so we, we didn't have hammocks

15:09

or anything at the start. So we

15:11

would tie ourselves to the

15:11

branches so that we wouldn't

15:13

fall out. We tie ourselves to

15:13

each other then so that if one

15:18

of us fell out, it would wake

15:18

everybody else up. But then we

15:22

made we made hammocks, and then

15:22

we could kind of put these

15:24

hammocks up in the trees and be

15:24

saved from some of the animals

15:28

and stuff. But, you know, it's

15:28

those, it's those early memories

15:32

of those wild adventures that

15:32

really start to I don't know, I

15:35

think that was that was the

15:35

foundation of my passion for

15:38

adventure and my passion for

15:38

kind of pushing physical limits

15:41

and emotional limits and doing

15:41

these endurance sports, like

15:45

ultra running and, and through

15:45

hiking and stuff. But But yeah,

15:49

I mean, the the adventure side

15:49

of it was beautiful. But truly,

15:52

for me, what I loved was the

15:52

communities that had put me in

15:55

contact with because we would go

15:55

out and like you said, go to

15:58

some of these villages, and some

15:58

of the younger kids. I mean,

16:00

they never seen a white person

16:00

before. And so they're freaking

16:02

out what's going on. And we were

16:02

all up on our motorcycles, and

16:07

everyone comes out to greet us.

16:07

And it's really cool, because

16:09

oftentimes, we were kind of

16:09

desperate and in need of

16:12

supplies and stuff. And so we

16:12

would come up to them and be

16:15

like, hey, you know, can we

16:15

maybe get some water? Could you

16:18

take us in for the night and

16:18

maybe put us in your BOMA, which

16:21

is like a little enclosure of

16:21

thorns that they, you know, they

16:24

put their Hudson and then their

16:24

cows and stuff at night to

16:27

protect them from the animals.

16:27

And oftentimes, it was a little

16:29

too dangerous for us to just

16:29

sleep out in the bush. And so

16:33

the generosity we experienced in

16:33

these communities that would

16:36

just take us in, and for the

16:36

night or for a couple of days,

16:39

and let us stay in there. BOMA

16:39

protected from the wild animals

16:43

and feed us goat meat and

16:43

slaughter goats for us

16:46

sometimes. And it was just

16:46

really beautiful to be like at

16:50

their at their graces, you know, and

16:52

oftentimes when you think of

16:56

like, like a mission community

16:56

or like the NGO world, then

17:00

oftentimes it's like them kind

17:00

of bringing in aid and bringing

17:03

it in, it's like, I don't know,

17:03

if this top down approach, which

17:06

is just a little felt a little

17:06

disjointed for me and kind of,

17:09

for me growing up in that

17:09

context, I never really, like I

17:13

never thought of myself as

17:13

anything other than really

17:15

Kenyan. And so the dynamics

17:15

between my family as a Western

17:20

white family to the Africans was

17:20

always a little strange and

17:25

frustrating to me. And when I

17:25

would go off on these trips, it

17:28

was very refreshing, I felt more

17:28

connected to them, because I was

17:32

kind of dependent on them in a

17:32

lot of ways. And just to

17:35

experience their generosity was

17:35

beautiful. And I got to meet

17:39

some of the most fascinating

17:39

characters and some of the most

17:42

incredible people on those

17:42

trips. And it gave me a deeper

17:45

understanding of kind of what

17:45

African culture was like and

17:48

about. And I think it's easy for

17:48

me to idealize Africa sometimes,

17:53

because I had such a euphoric

17:53

childhood there. And one way

17:57

that when I went, I went back to

17:57

Kenya and Tanzania after college

18:02

to do some community development

18:02

work in a couple of different

18:05

contexts through the avenue of

18:05

like agricultural development,

18:09

and actually, like working in an

18:09

African context is very

18:13

different than just like living

18:13

in an African context. And so I

18:16

had this interesting adjustment

18:16

to make of, like, instead of

18:21

just having this very kind of

18:21

curated, beautiful childhood, I

18:25

then had to navigate all these

18:25

cultural dynamics in a work

18:30

setting, um, in a way that I'd

18:30

never had to do in the past. And

18:33

that's when I started realizing

18:33

like, Man, I even though I grew

18:36

up here, I have a very Western

18:36

American mindset when it comes

18:41

to workplace efficiency or how

18:41

we think about time, or just how

18:45

things get done. And that kind

18:45

of has set me on this journey of

18:50

like, how, like discovering kind

18:50

of who I am, is this mixture of

18:55

like, my, you know, influence

18:55

from African culture and my

18:58

influence from having Western

18:58

parents and Western family and

19:01

in a very Western School, and

19:01

then coming to America now

19:04

spending a lot of time in

19:04

America. And so it's, it's kind

19:07

of complicated. I'm not I don't

19:07

have a conclusion yet to that.

19:10

I'm in the process of kind of

19:10

figuring out just who, you know

19:14

how I think about certain things

19:14

and stuff, but that's beautiful.

19:20

You're listening

19:20

to my October of 2021 interview

19:24

with Chris Carter, of

19:24

Chattanooga, Tennessee, by way

19:28

of Kenya, who stopped at my

19:28

house on his thru hike of the

19:32

Appalachian Trail tools for

19:32

nomads is brought to you by top

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20:20

here on the 80, you have your

20:28

two feet and your body. And then

20:28

I guess out in the bush, you

20:32

have two wheels on an engine on

20:32

a motorcycle. And so both of

20:36

those things are certainly the

20:36

last thing from truck with a

20:41

trailer on it, meaning you just

20:41

put anything you need. And like,

20:44

Oh, I'm going to put a stove in

20:44

here and everything, you've got

20:47

to be really a carefully choose

20:47

what it is you bring with you on

20:53

on an endeavor. And I suppose

20:53

for your body, it might be, you

20:58

know, moleskin for a blister, or

20:58

ibuprofen for swollen knee

21:02

joint. And then on a motorcycle,

21:02

it's like what kind of do you

21:06

need a wrench or a screwdriver

21:06

or you know, the right kind of

21:09

thing to prime gas if there's

21:09

bad gasoline. So that's, so

21:13

you're like, for, for somebody

21:13

the age of 25, you've probably

21:19

been away from home, more than

21:19

most people would ever in many

21:24

lifetimes been away from home

21:24

traveling, going from point A to

21:29

wherever the next point may be

21:29

ha ha ha Not, not intend No,

21:34

actually, I didn't even I worked

21:34

myself into wherever that point

21:38

may be. So so your youth before

21:38

you get up and go, you have to

21:45

really think about what it is

21:45

you put on your back or in the

21:47

saddlebags. And that's really

21:47

fascinating me you'd have to go

21:51

too much in depth. But you know,

21:51

the through the process of trial

21:55

and error, do you just kind of

21:55

can you just get up and go or

21:58

does it take you weeks like some

21:58

people suffer over packing?

22:02

No, that's a great

22:02

question. And I remember

22:04

actually, the first kind of big

22:04

backpacking trip I went on was

22:08

in seventh grade, where I just

22:08

went out with myself into

22:11

friends for like four or five

22:11

days through the bush and that I

22:15

had always been on long trips,

22:15

but with your parents let

22:18

you they're like,

22:18

yeah, man, there's lions out

22:21

there. Ya

22:21

know, my parents

22:21

are thugs. They're awesome. Like

22:24

they have so much they have,

22:24

well, they have a faith in God

22:28

primarily that I'm going to be

22:28

safe. And from the beginning,

22:30

they realized that like, dude,

22:30

if we're gonna live in Africa,

22:33

we can not bubble wrap our kids,

22:33

like, there's just no way

22:35

because all the thorns in Africa

22:35

are gonna pop the bubble wrap,

22:38

there's like no way that they

22:38

can just be totally insulated

22:41

and protected. And like, we have

22:41

to just kind of get them into

22:45

the hands of God and be like,

22:45

Hey, we don't want to limit

22:47

their experience here in Africa.

22:47

So but we're gonna we're gonna

22:50

teach them how to be safe and

22:50

how to make wise choices. But

22:53

then we're gonna let them go out

22:53

and have these experiences. And

22:55

so yeah, when I started kind of

22:55

getting this desire to push

23:00

further and further out from the

23:00

home, then it was it was

23:04

challenging for them. You know,

23:04

we I didn't have a cell phone

23:07

until I was like a junior in

23:07

high school or something, or

23:09

like, probably, I guess. It was

23:09

like my sophomore year, I got

23:12

this little Nokia brick. And

23:12

like, I would only use it on

23:16

motorcycle trips to like call,

23:16

maybe call my mom and stuff. And

23:19

like, it's just a very, you

23:19

know, iPhones weren't even on

23:22

the radar or anything. And so,

23:22

navigation was interesting as

23:27

well. But But yeah, I mean, I,

23:27

we would not we would go for a

23:30

week without contacting them,

23:30

you know, and we're out in the

23:33

bush and, like, so much happens.

23:33

And I finally called them like,

23:37

yeah, we ran into this herd of

23:37

hyenas. And then we had three

23:40

flat tires. And then we enraged

23:40

this Maasai tribe. And they

23:43

chased us out of their land and

23:43

stuff. It's like, they're like,

23:46

Well, I'm glad you're okay. You

23:46

know. And so that's faith.

23:51

That's dude. 100%. So they do,

23:51

they're awesome. And I'm so

23:56

grateful for them for allowing

23:56

me to go out and do these

23:58

things. But oh, my God, I

23:58

remember the first the first

24:01

kind of backpacking trip that I

24:01

just went on as kind of like, I

24:05

kind of like planned it and led

24:05

it and coordinated all the other

24:08

ones I've been out with older

24:08

kids, or older, or my parents or

24:12

older people, and they had

24:12

always planned it and stuff. And

24:14

this one, my dad was like, Hey,

24:14

man, I think you should like

24:17

plan this trip. And it'd be a

24:17

really good experience for you

24:20

and it's gonna be really hard.

24:20

But then after this, subsequent

24:23

trips are just gonna get easier

24:23

and easier and easier. And

24:25

you're gonna dial in your setup,

24:25

you're gonna dial in what you

24:28

need. And so I remember it being

24:28

terrifying and I just was struck

24:31

with the reality of all the

24:31

logistics that you have to plan

24:34

for a trip, particularly a trip

24:34

through the bush where there's

24:37

not like a set trail or anything

24:37

so you're figuring out GPS

24:40

coordinates and how long it's

24:40

going to take you where you can

24:42

maybe find water and all this

24:42

stuff. And you know, is it

24:46

dangerous is are there people's

24:46

lands that we're going to go

24:49

through that they're going to be

24:49

angry and I was just like, wow,

24:52

you know, I this is what I want.

24:52

This is the way I wanted to live

24:55

my life from a young age. I

24:55

always knew I wanted to be an

24:57

explorer and an adventure but

24:57

Took me a long time to really

25:01

dial in what that means. And so

25:01

I remember going out you know, I

25:04

packed my backpack the fattest

25:04

backpack you can ever imagine,

25:07

because I had never dialed in my

25:07

gear setup. And so we were

25:10

packing full cans of beans and

25:10

like, you know, chunks of meat

25:14

that people had given us and

25:14

it's absurd. And but that was

25:19

this huge catalyst for me of

25:19

like, giving me a lot of

25:23

confidence that like, alright, I

25:23

can do this, I can plan I can

25:26

lead trips. And just like

25:26

understanding that I can make

25:31

this a lot more efficient. So

25:31

the next trip I went on, you

25:34

know, we packed lighter food, we

25:34

didn't bring this and we were

25:37

dialed in the setup. And we knew

25:37

where we wanted to go a little

25:40

bit more and we went further and

25:40

further and further to we were

25:42

doing week trips, and then month

25:42

trips and stuff. And from there,

25:47

you just every trip you go on,

25:47

you dial your setup, and a

25:50

little more you drop your

25:50

pathway, if it's a motorcycle

25:53

trip, you learn how to fix a

25:53

carburetor. And then you learn

25:56

how to, you know, patch a tire

25:56

in a better way. And like

26:00

motorcycle trips are way more

26:00

complicated than then you know,

26:04

backpacking trips because

26:04

there's this whole maintenance

26:07

side of it and, and Africa just

26:07

beats up motorcycles to just

26:12

tortures them. And so I would

26:12

not consider myself a phenomenal

26:16

motorcycle mechanic, one of the

26:16

guys that I would always go to,

26:18

we kind of had our roles on the

26:18

trips, and one guy was kind of

26:21

the master mechanic, one guy

26:21

fixed tires really fast. One guy

26:25

would cook, you know, all these

26:25

things. And so we had different

26:27

roles. And oftentimes, I relied

26:27

on my friends that knew a lot

26:31

more about motorcycle

26:31

maintenance than I did. And so

26:33

I've got a long ways to go. I

26:33

know the basics, and I'm getting

26:36

a lot better at it. But it's It

26:36

shocks me how complicated it is

26:40

sometimes, but that's the

26:40

beautiful side of it. You know,

26:43

in my perspective, the harder

26:43

something is, the more technical

26:45

The more time you have to put

26:45

into it. The longer the planning

26:49

stages, the more beautiful it

26:49

is. I love planning for trips,

26:53

it's one of my favorite things

26:53

ever. When you get everyone

26:55

that's going to be going on the

26:55

trip over, you lay out all your

26:58

food, you lay out all your

26:58

tools, you bring the maps out,

27:01

and you're just like, we're

27:01

going to do this and this and

27:03

this and you leave the plans

27:03

flexible obviously. But you have

27:06

this goal and this in. That's

27:06

beautiful to me. But But yeah,

27:11

you know, it's got to you got to

27:11

get it dialed in and it just, it

27:14

takes a lot of time. But it's

27:14

beautiful. Once you start seeing

27:17

that progress, it's like

27:17

alright, I'm, I'm lighter than I

27:20

was I'm more efficient than I was, you know.

27:24

I would say you're

27:24

probably the first person I've

27:27

talked to in all the interviews

27:27

I've done over the years and

27:30

video podcasts World Film World

27:30

TV, you name it, that I could

27:35

really say there's there's a

27:35

like kind of a nomadic lifestyle

27:39

going here. I mean, you could

27:39

you and you didn't have to Oh,

27:42

it was in your it's in your

27:42

heart. That's, that's not a word

27:47

that I use very often. Maybe I

27:47

might say it to someone to

27:52

compliment them and they go yes,

27:52

you know, but no, you've you've

27:56

truly lived it. And you've

27:56

learned from real nomads like

28:00

the Messiah or the disrobe the

28:00

other tribe who you are the one

28:03

Yeah. And so you have such a

28:03

wealth of knowledge in there and

28:09

you're only 25 That's That's

28:09

really incredible. And so I I

28:13

admire you for that. And it's

28:13

it's really, so I'm so if if we

28:18

should ever plan in an adventure

28:18

together. You'll be the guy

28:22

packing. Can

28:22

we talk about

28:22

that? Right? Yeah, yes, we will

28:25

be on tape. So it happens.

28:27

It will. Yeah. So

28:27

Pan African motorcycle trip.

28:30

That's right. So yeah, so if I

28:30

tried to pack an extra pair of

28:35

underwear, you've liked it? No,

28:35

you're done

28:37

that one pair of

28:37

under one pair of undies. That's

28:40

it. However, maybe just tiny

28:40

shorts, and then you don't have

28:43

to worry about underwear.

28:46

So let's do a

28:46

really quick, interesting side

28:50

story. And then we'll end it and

28:50

so you you were you're hiking

28:53

shorts have like the Kenyan flag

28:53

motif on it. And you out of the

28:57

blue bumped into some people

28:57

walking down a trail from Kenya,

29:01

who immediately hit you with

29:01

some Swahili is that yeah,

29:05

well, it was at

29:05

Mount Katahdin actually, which

29:07

was North northern part of

29:07

northern terminus of the AG,

29:11

which was a beautiful place to

29:11

begin, I mean, just a stunning

29:14

mountain. But ya know, I hadn't

29:14

I mean, I hadn't spoken Swahili,

29:17

since I'd been in Kenya and

29:17

Tanzania, like about a year ago

29:20

at this point. And so it was,

29:20

you know, it was beautiful

29:24

because I was walking up the

29:24

trail and then there was these

29:26

two ladies coming down. And I

29:26

noticed that they were you can

29:30

kind of see a Kenyan. I don't

29:30

know, they just have this aura

29:34

about them and way of carrying

29:34

themselves and when they when

29:38

they kind of walked closer, they

29:38

said he's wearing the Kenyan

29:41

flag, you know? And they started

29:41

and they were like, I don't get

29:45

Kiswahili Do you speak Swahili?

29:45

I got perma stoked, man. I was

29:49

Slowking do no good. I was like

29:49

I hadn't spoken in a really long

29:53

time. It was awesome. And we

29:53

just had this like beautiful

29:57

connection right off the bat and

29:57

I was like hiking with Wow And

30:00

then they were with a couple of

30:00

people that were guiding them up

30:02

Mount Katahdin. And they were

30:02

all just like, What the heck is

30:06

going on this white AF kid is

30:06

suddenly speaking Swahili with

30:12

these people. And it was just I

30:12

was beautiful man, it was

30:15

really, really cool. And I

30:15

think, just language in general

30:19

is this, like just this

30:19

incredible way of connecting

30:22

with people on such a deep

30:22

level, I'd never met them

30:24

before. And even when we talked

30:24

about it wasn't super deep. It

30:27

was just surface level. What do

30:27

you do? How long have you been

30:29

in the states where you're going

30:29

all this stuff, but man, just

30:31

the act of speaking to them

30:31

speaking in a language that I

30:35

love so dearly, was beautiful.

30:35

And, you know, Swahili is a very

30:40

dynamic language. It's not just

30:40

like, talking. It's like tonal,

30:47

you know. So if I'm going to say

30:47

that something is like, far away

30:51

is like, embody is the word for

30:51

Farley eco Mbali Sana, but if

30:55

it's like relatively far away,

30:55

or can I close it, she'd say

30:58

Bali, but if it's like way for

30:58

you be like money, you know,

31:01

like you raise your voice a

31:01

little bit. So this is very

31:03

dynamic language. And it's also

31:03

a very physical language, you

31:06

know, and so, you're kind of

31:06

like, giving people high fives a

31:09

lot more. And dude, it's just

31:09

really beautiful and dynamic.

31:13

And something that I kind of

31:13

miss out on a little bit when

31:15

I'm speaking English. For some

31:15

people. I feel a little bit, I

31:18

guess, limited sometimes. But

31:18

and so yeah, man, it was

31:22

beautiful. And it made me miss

31:22

Kenya a lot, for sure. So I, I

31:25

want to go back. You know,

31:25

there's too many cool things to

31:27

do in the world. And I've come

31:27

to a point where there's beats,

31:30

I've have home in America, and I

31:30

have people in America, and I'm

31:34

very thankful for my life here.

31:34

And it's, it's, it's I'm

31:38

grateful to reach that point.

31:38

Because when I first came to

31:40

America, dude, I just pined away

31:40

for Africa, I missed it every

31:43

day, I was like, This place

31:43

sucks. Like, I can go on these

31:47

crazy trips, these journeys, you

31:47

know, I was just like, confined

31:51

to school and stuff. And, and

31:51

then I started actually, you

31:55

know, getting to experience what

31:55

America had to offer. And then I

31:59

was like, Man, you can really,

31:59

if you want to, you can live a

32:03

very nomadic or very adventurous

32:03

lifestyle, if you choose to.

32:09

It's just not necessarily as

32:09

readily available, maybe as I

32:13

had experienced in my childhood,

32:13

but if you seek it out, then

32:17

then you can find it, you know?

32:17

So, yeah,

32:20

yeah. So Okay,

32:20

last thing. So you you made that

32:26

choice in your own heart. You

32:26

could you I mean, we have free

32:30

freewill. You could have done

32:30

whatever you wanted. And I've

32:32

been welcomed into any community

32:32

and everything but, but a lot of

32:36

people who might be listening to

32:36

this interview with you, or

32:40

watching this interview might

32:40

wonder if you have any advice to

32:44

impart on packing, if you will,

32:44

what, what, how do you, you

32:48

know, somebody is trying to keep

32:48

it light, somebody doesn't want

32:51

you know, they're not going to

32:51

check in two bags on on an

32:54

airplane flight or something.

32:54

Just any any advice? And, you

32:59

know, for the person that's

32:59

listening to one of the most

33:03

traveled people I know, at least

33:03

at your age.

33:06

Yeah, it's it is

33:06

tricky. It's a balance. And I

33:09

think what it boils down to is

33:09

comfort level and your threshold

33:13

for discomfort. So, you know,

33:13

for me personally, I've gotten

33:17

to the point where I can live a

33:17

very comfortable life with

33:20

myself with maybe 20 items, you

33:20

know, in my backpack. And so for

33:25

some people, they need 40 or 100

33:25

items to be very comfortable but

33:30

for me, I don't need that much.

33:30

It depends on what type of

33:34

journey you're doing. If you're

33:34

traveling on like a tour or your

33:38

like backpacking Europe or

33:38

something where you're going and

33:41

visiting different places and

33:41

you're staying in very urban

33:44

centers a lot then you're

33:44

obviously going to have to pack

33:46

a change of clothes or two or

33:46

and have different things that

33:49

make you more comfortable and in

33:49

that setting for me I've been my

33:54

travels recently have mostly

33:54

been these backpacking trips

33:57

these thru hiking trips where

33:57

I'm gone for six, seven months

34:00

at a time but I literally have

34:00

one change of I don't have a

34:04

change of clothes I have one

34:04

pair of clothes like we're

34:07

wearing right now in fact Yeah,

34:07

well right now I'm wearing your

34:10

clothes washing well and that's

34:10

it but it's an interesting point

34:16

right? Like not everyone would

34:16

be confident coming into

34:18

someone's house and being like,

34:18

Hey, can I borrow a shirt while

34:21

I wash my shirt because I have

34:21

no other shirt. You know? And so

34:25

my pack is very small and tiny

34:25

but when I started out I would

34:30

have three shirts, two pairs of

34:30

underwear, two changes of shorts

34:33

because I wanted to change I

34:33

wanted to you know not have my

34:36

shirt be dirty all the time. I

34:36

think what what it really boils

34:39

down to is needs versus once you

34:39

know and if you don't need it,

34:43

then highly consider why you're

34:43

carrying it because it's not

34:47

physical items, per se are more

34:47

things and more stuff that bring

34:51

us happiness, particularly if

34:51

you're looking to travel right

34:54

like you're not leaving your

34:54

home and going to you know

34:57

Norway because you want to have

34:57

a better experience with your

35:02

iPad or with the shirt or

35:02

something like you're going for

35:04

the experience with others and

35:04

with nature and with these

35:08

mountains and, and so really

35:08

like honestly more and more

35:12

items just kind of clutters that

35:12

experience. And so what do you

35:15

need on those journeys, you

35:15

really don't need much at all

35:18

you need just the bare

35:18

necessities. So figure out what

35:21

your comfort level is, and then

35:21

stick with that and really just

35:25

cut off all the fat and just

35:25

have that perfect little setup.

35:29

And then don't feel like you

35:29

need to add more, you know, and

35:32

so, for you know, it's, it looks

35:32

different for each person. For

35:35

me, it's very, very minimal. For

35:35

somebody else, it's a little bit

35:38

more, but as long as you can

35:38

keep paring it down, I think a

35:41

minimalist lifestyle is very

35:41

beautiful and allows you to pull

35:45

a lot of, I don't know a lot of

35:45

joy out of wherever you're

35:48

going. And for me as a

35:48

backpacker, having a very

35:51

lightweight pack allows me to

35:51

enjoy the miles a little more,

35:55

because my bag isn't hurting as

35:55

much. And so and if I'm on a

35:59

motorcycle ride, then I'm not

35:59

using as much fuel if I can

36:03

really pare down my pack weight

36:03

and have a very lightweight

36:06

setup, because it doesn't have

36:06

to haul as much weight and it's

36:09

easier to really rip it around.

36:09

And if I'm going through a

36:12

boulder resection, I can chuck

36:12

the motorcycle around a little

36:14

more. And so it just in my

36:14

opinion, the more minimalist you

36:18

are, then the more enjoyable

36:18

you're going to have in an

36:20

adventurous lifestyle. And yeah,

36:20

but you know, it takes a lot of

36:25

time to really figure out what

36:25

that means for yourself.

36:28

Yeah, you could be a consultant Well, I guess the cat is out of

36:36

the bag. Chris and I had talked

36:40

about a Pan African motorcycle

36:40

adventure. I think if we are

36:45

ever to pull this adventure off,

36:45

I will need to hone in on my

36:49

packing abilities and know how

36:49

to eliminate more than just one

36:55

extra pair of underwear. I think

36:55

I need to really learn how to

36:59

ride a motorcycle in the desert.

36:59

So I guess it's time to get

37:05

training. You can find Chris on

37:05

Instagram at Chris Carter 146

37:13

and his film is on YouTube. It's

37:13

called to measure a mile. Thank

37:18

you Chris. See you on the trail

37:18

my nomad friend. Thanks for

37:25

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37:25

close and insightful look into

37:30

the lives and habits of

37:30

passionate and creatively

37:33

prolific people like Chris

37:33

Carter, who embrace and cherish

37:38

the nomadic lifestyle. Be sure

37:38

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