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San Francisco, Los Angeles,

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Boston, Berkeley, Chicago, and

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Tokyo. Top door shop.com. I'm

0:35

Thom Pollard. I met today's

0:35

guest john branch in 2017. he

0:41

emailed me asking to interview

0:41

me about something I witnessed

0:44

on Mount Everest the previous

0:44

year. JOHN branch wanted to hear

0:49

my story about having crossed

0:49

paths with three men who lost

0:53

their lives close to the summit

0:53

of the mountain, I encountered

0:57

each one of them in their last

0:57

moments of life. One can imagine

1:01

how helpless I felt in knowing

1:01

there was nothing I could do to

1:05

save them. The upper reaches of

1:05

Everest is an area known as the

1:09

death zone where no human can

1:09

survive for more than a day or

1:13

two. The death zone can suck the

1:13

life and energy out of even the

1:17

world's strongest and most

1:17

capable athletes. The frozen

1:21

bodies at camp for at 26,000

1:21

feet or 8000 meters is proof of

1:27

that. JOHN is a sports writer

1:27

for The New York Times, not just

1:31

any kind of sports writer, he

1:31

writes about off the beaten

1:35

track sports like

1:35

mountaineering, climbing,

1:38

skiing, and offbeat sports like

1:38

wingsuit flying bowling, even

1:43

Rubik's Cube competitions. JOHN

1:43

says he's more interested in the

1:48

human side of the story than the

1:48

scoreboard. And it turns out, I

1:52

knew john and his work before

1:52

even actually speaking on the

1:56

telephone, having survived a

1:56

near deadly avalanche in my home

2:00

state of New Hampshire. I was

2:00

riveted by his story called snow

2:04

fall about skiers killed in an

2:04

avalanche in Washington State.

2:09

The story one john a Pulitzer

2:09

Prize. He's a master at his

2:14

craft, the best selling author

2:14

of boy on dice and the last

2:18

cowboys. And he just released a

2:18

book featuring 20 of his

2:22

favorite stories from over 2000

2:22

that he's written for the New

2:25

York Times called side country,

2:25

tales of death and life from the

2:30

back roads of sports. The

2:30

article he interviewed me for

2:35

called deliverance from 27,000

2:35

feet is in his new book, it

2:40

brings up so much emotion for me

2:40

personally, that I can't say

2:43

I'll ever be able to read it

2:43

again. I caught up with john in

2:51

August of 2021, from his home

2:51

near San Francisco. He just

2:55

returned from Tokyo, where he

2:55

was reporting on the Tokyo

2:59

Olympics. As I said, john is no

2:59

ordinary sports writer. his take

3:05

on the Olympics and what he

3:05

experienced there is true john

3:09

branch, he tells stories about

3:09

people before sports, about

3:14

their heartache about their

3:14

successes, about their wins and

3:17

their losses in ways that touch

3:17

every one of us. Here's my

3:23

conversation with john. So you

3:23

might could be the busiest man

3:30

in Well, we're all busy, I

3:30

suppose. But you've got to be

3:33

busy. You carved out some time

3:33

for me on a Friday afternoon. I

3:37

am I nothing but gratitude. So

3:37

good to see your face again.

3:42

Same with you always good to see your face. Any more spices, Roman? Yeah,

3:44

hey,

3:47

we need more

3:47

smiles in this planet. And that

3:50

is the plant talking about the

3:50

planet. you've traveled far and

3:53

wide. And you just came back

3:53

from a trip to Tokyo to cover

3:58

the Olympics, can you? I've been

3:58

following you I follow you

4:03

religiously on Instagram, your

4:03

Instagram story. It should be

4:09

its own film. I'm suggesting

4:09

that now just in case if you've

4:13

just future thoughts, I'll

4:13

produce it for you. There's no

4:16

budget. I also wanted to throw

4:16

that in there. So what a trip to

4:21

Tokyo covering the 2020 Olympics

4:21

in the year 2021. What was that?

4:28

Like?

4:29

Yeah, it was

4:29

fascinating. I've covered a lot

4:33

of Olympics. Now. I've been

4:33

blessed to have done these quite

4:36

a number of times. I was really,

4:36

really looking forward to this

4:39

one because I had gone in 2019

4:39

to do some reporting. And I

4:43

thought this one's going to be

4:43

lights out. Japan runs things

4:47

very efficiently. The people are

4:47

wonderful. The culture is

4:50

wonderful. And I thought this is

4:50

going to be one of the great

4:52

Olympics ever. That was pre

4:52

pandemic of course. And in

4:57

hindsight now The takeaway is

4:57

that I've really felt bad both

5:02

for Japan, because it couldn't

5:02

showcase itself in any in any

5:06

real way. And I felt bad for the

5:06

athletes who were performing,

5:10

you know, their their life's

5:10

work in mostly empty venues,

5:16

without familiar or friendly

5:16

faces in the crowd, without

5:20

family and spouses and

5:20

supporters. It was lonely and

5:24

weird, and it felt like dress

5:24

rehearsals and a lot of ways. So

5:29

the two people or two groups of

5:29

people I feel bad for are the

5:32

athletes and for the people in Japan.

5:35

So how, you know,

5:35

it really taught the athletes

5:39

not withstanding, but what about

5:39

the people of Japan like so what

5:44

was that was? Was it a spoken

5:44

thing? Were they saying, we we

5:48

mourn with our hearts? Or are

5:48

sad? Or like, How did it feel

5:52

like what was the visceral

5:52

feeling of it?

5:56

Yeah, the Olympic

5:56

movement, you know, the IOC

6:00

basically decided, if we're

6:00

going to do this, during this

6:03

pandemic, we're going to soldier

6:03

on through this, we're going to

6:08

do this without trying to impact

6:08

Japan as much as possible. And

6:12

so they they really more than

6:12

any other time I've ever seen,

6:15

created this semi bubble for the

6:15

Olympics. And so we really had

6:19

very little interaction. I did

6:19

stay in a hotel, in a in a Tokyo

6:24

neighborhood where I could walk

6:24

outside, and it felt like real

6:26

life, everybody is wearing

6:26

masks, indoors and outdoors,

6:29

very different than the US,

6:29

nobody complained about it. But

6:34

once I got onto a bus or got

6:34

over to Olympic venues, it was

6:38

just these quiet, empty arenas,

6:38

where the Olympians were, and so

6:42

on. And so those two worlds

6:42

didn't blend very well. And that

6:46

was on purpose. I think the

6:46

people of Japan were nervous

6:49

about the Olympics. And so to

6:49

appease that anxiety, the

6:52

Olympics said, Well, look, we're

6:52

going to try to really shut off

6:55

our little festival here, in a

6:55

little bubble. And, you know,

6:59

it's just a shame that I had to

6:59

work that way. But I think most

7:02

people in Japan, by the time the

7:02

Olympics started did not want

7:04

the Olympics there. There are

7:04

certainly a high level of

7:07

anxiety as case numbers were

7:07

rising, and so on, did not want

7:11

this influx of 10s of 1000s of

7:11

foreigners. Although I think for

7:16

the most part, we are high more

7:16

highly, are more likely to have

7:20

been vaccinated than the people

7:20

of Japan were. But I don't blame

7:24

people for being anxious about

7:24

it. And so I think most Japanese

7:27

people kind of stayed away from

7:27

it. And just let us kind of do

7:31

our little festival in the side

7:31

on the side. And it's just a

7:35

shame because those two things

7:35

merge together could have been a

7:37

lot of fun and really

7:37

fascinating for a lot of people.

7:39

Yeah, absolutely.

7:39

Because the the other Olympics

7:42

that you've covered, I can

7:42

imagine it's like the people are

7:46

out wearing their colors, not

7:46

only the fans and the families

7:50

from other countries, but from

7:50

the host country. They're like,

7:54

look at where we live.

7:57

Yeah, it's not just

7:57

in the venues themselves, which

7:59

is what you see on NBC, but it's

7:59

just walking the streets. It's,

8:02

you know, in Rio, for example,

8:02

walking down side streets and

8:05

watching people at little bars

8:05

and cafes watching this tiny

8:08

little TV up in the corner, when

8:08

some Brazilian is going for a

8:12

medal or something. There's just

8:12

these little serendipitous

8:14

moments throughout the Olympics,

8:14

away from the venues, which are

8:18

just wonderful. And none of that

8:18

really existed. It just felt

8:21

like two separate worlds that

8:21

were not coexisting in a

8:25

meaningful way.

8:27

JOHN, so what were

8:27

some of the the real feel good

8:30

stories, whether athletes or

8:30

sports stories, or just Japan

8:36

and your experience there? What

8:36

were what were would you say

8:39

were some of the highlights for

8:39

you? And I know, that's a broad

8:42

question. We could go for hours,

8:42

but you know, like, boom, like,

8:46

you know, something on the top

8:46

of your head kinda?

8:48

Well, it's interesting, cuz I never see the NBC coverage. So I have no idea

8:50

what you folks saw back here in

8:53

the US. And I was not at track

8:53

and field. But I think my

8:57

favorite moment that I did not

8:57

witness myself was when the two

9:00

high jumpers basically tied. And

9:00

they came to realization with

9:06

the official there that you

9:06

know, what, if you guys just

9:08

want to stop here, you both get

9:08

a gold medal. I mean, how cool

9:11

How cool was that? The raw

9:11

emotion of, we'll take this, and

9:15

now we're best friends for life.

9:15

There's something you can get

9:18

drawn into the Olympic spirit

9:18

with that, right? The sports I

9:22

mostly covered were surfing,

9:22

climbing and skateboarding. And

9:27

all of them had cool little

9:27

highlights. I think

9:29

skateboarding was really fun

9:29

just because the Japanese

9:31

people, or the Japanese skaters

9:31

did really well, of the four

9:35

gold medals. Three of them were

9:35

won by Japanese skaters. And

9:38

there's a there's an interesting

9:38

sort of history with

9:41

skateboarding in Japan kind of

9:41

frowned upon in ways that maybe

9:45

Americans can kind of appreciate

9:45

but but certainly, I don't think

9:48

fully understand. You don't see

9:48

kids skatey on the streets of

9:51

Japan, because it's just frowned

9:51

upon that this is deployed. The

9:56

society is very polite. It's

9:56

very community oriented, and why

9:59

would you make noise and bother

9:59

other people by stating

10:02

somewhere on the sidewalk. So

10:02

it's fascinating to me that they

10:06

seem to have figured out that

10:06

even with those sort of communal

10:10

restrictions on a sport like

10:10

skateboarding, they can still

10:13

figure out a way to do really, really well. And

10:15

the whole cultural

10:15

thing, the difference, not just

10:18

with the United States or North

10:18

America, but the, you know, the

10:23

the culture of Japan, you're

10:23

saying everybody is, you know,

10:27

they all wear masks, and don't

10:27

complain about it, you know?

10:33

Yeah. Yeah, it is

10:33

interesting. It shows itself in

10:37

a lot of interesting ways to me.

10:37

And, you know, among them is

10:41

that everybody's wearing a mask

10:41

indoors and outdoors. But there

10:45

are, there's also things like

10:45

you jump on a subway, and one

10:49

when you get off the subway, and

10:49

everybody's piling into the

10:52

escalator to go upstairs.

10:52

Everybody gets in a single file

10:55

line to wait their turn to go up

10:55

the escalator. When I'm on the

10:59

subway, and I'm dying of thirst.

10:59

And I look around, and I realize

11:03

nobody else on the subway is

11:03

holding a water bottle. Nobody's

11:06

drinking out of a water bottle.

11:06

Nobody has this giant $100 water

11:10

bottle in their hand that we all

11:10

seem to carry around everywhere.

11:13

Nobody has a big, you know, 32

11:13

ounce Starbucks cup. It's just

11:18

not done. There's no trash that

11:18

you see anywhere. There's no

11:22

trash cans on the street,

11:22

because why would you need trash

11:24

cans on the street? Why would

11:24

you be carrying something around

11:27

with you, that's trash that you wouldn't just take home to dispose of. So there's these

11:29

really interesting cultural

11:32

things that are just a twist.

11:32

And when you're there, you think

11:36

this is all wonderful, and it

11:36

feels very dignified. and

11:40

efficient. And certainly Japan

11:40

has its issues that I think that

11:45

are below the surface. But as a

11:45

visitor you get there and think

11:49

this is what a a dignified

11:49

future looks like. It all feels

11:54

very, you know, efficient and

11:54

technologically savvy and smart.

11:58

And then just well designed. Not

11:58

messy the way you know, our

12:03

society is and a lot of other societies are,

12:05

john so I love can

12:05

you tell the egg salad sandwich

12:10

story, please. I love I love,

12:10

love, love What happened? And I

12:15

love how you told the story.

12:15

Just share that. That's

12:20

beautiful.

12:21

Well, yeah, so you

12:21

know, part of our quarantine

12:24

there, we were under quarantine

12:24

for 14 days, we were not really

12:27

supposed to go out and about and

12:27

mingle with people. So we were

12:30

given basically a 15 minute

12:30

window where we were allowed to

12:34

leave our hotels and go find

12:34

something to eat. And for most

12:37

of us that meant going to the

12:37

corner 711 and if you have not

12:41

been to Tokyo, you might be

12:41

surprised to know that there was

12:43

a 711 on every single coin.

12:43

There's like Starbucks in

12:46

Manhattan. It's it's 711 and

12:46

Tokyo. And at the seven elevens

12:53

and other companies that are

12:53

like them Lawson's is another

12:56

convenience store there that you

12:56

see a lot. They have a lot of

13:00

fresh food. It's not like hot

13:00

dogs on the rollers like we're

13:04

used to at our seven elevens

13:04

they have sushi and salads and

13:07

noodle dishes. And so a lot of

13:07

people take these on their way

13:10

home from work and that's their

13:10

quick meal. Like it's kind of

13:13

take home and either microwave

13:13

or cold noodles or, or I bought

13:17

an octopus salad one night. But

13:17

one of the things that came up

13:21

was the Lawson which is like a

13:21

711 competitor, the egg salad

13:26

sandwich. And I had forgotten

13:26

this until somebody mentioned it

13:30

that Anthony Bourdain the late

13:30

Anthony Bourdain loved the

13:34

Lawson egg salad sandwich. And

13:34

so I decided Yeah, of course I'm

13:41

gonna try it if Atheneum burning

13:41

thought it was good enough to to

13:44

Herald on his TV show and in his

13:44

writing, then certainly I'm

13:48

going to try it. And so for like

13:48

two bucks, you get a egg salad

13:51

sandwich, and they are just

13:51

creamy and Ag and messy and

13:56

delicious. And yeah, I'm not

13:56

sure I would have thought of

13:59

doing that. If not for Anthony Bourdain.

14:01

So you so you get

14:01

the sandwich. And you remember

14:04

it Anthony Bourdain being like

14:04

obsessed, not obsessed, but love

14:08

these. And you found his tweet

14:08

from? I'm looking at it from

14:12

November 3 2013.

14:15

Yes, the I think he

14:15

called it what the unnatural,

14:19

inexplicable deliciousness of

14:19

the Lawson's egg salad sandwich.

14:24

And he's exactly right. I'm not

14:24

a huge egg salad fan. But if

14:29

Anthony Bourdain says go try the

14:29

go try the egg salad sandwich.

14:32

I'll try the egg salad sandwich

14:32

from Yeah, from the convenience

14:35

store.

14:36

Right on when I

14:36

saw your, your post on your

14:40

Instagram story. I saw the close

14:40

up of the egg salad sandwich in

14:44

its little package. Nice little

14:44

neat package. And I was like,

14:47

Oh, I'm not a big salad sandwich

14:47

guy. And the second you put the

14:52

quote about Anthony Bourdain.

14:52

I'm like, I gotta get to Tokyo.

14:55

Hit a loss and go straight. I

14:55

will. I'm gonna I'm like, it's

14:59

all my little So now,

15:01

right? I'm sort of

15:01

floored I I do kind of half

15:04

jokingly wonder of Japanese

15:04

people come to the US and walk

15:08

into 711. And think, where is

15:08

all the delicious food? And

15:13

what, what are these two things

15:13

rolling around on these rollers?

15:17

But it's a different experience.

15:17

It's a different 711 than what

15:19

we're used to. Yeah, somebody

15:19

asked me if they have slurpees,

15:24

at the seven elevens, and

15:24

somehow, a good reporter would

15:27

know this and would have checked

15:27

us out. But I don't honestly

15:29

know if they absolutely because

15:29

I never saw the Slurpee machine

15:32

at the

15:33

64 ounce, big

15:33

gulp.

15:36

If they did have

15:36

the Big Gulps, which I don't

15:39

think they do, they certainly

15:39

would not carry them around on

15:41

the streets, and certainly not

15:41

in the subway. That's all.

15:45

So So john, I want

15:45

to ask about 1000 of your your

15:50

stories there. But But you

15:50

travel a lot. You're a man, who

15:54

has been to a lot of countries

15:54

to cover the sports that you

15:57

cover, not your traditional,

15:57

mainstream sports, you know,

16:01

like in a, you know, I speak

16:01

about this in my introduction to

16:05

you, but like, how do you do it?

16:05

Because you're like, like, when

16:10

you have a pretty cool job.

16:10

You're a sports writer for The

16:13

New York Times? And they

16:13

probably don't, other than

16:15

saying go to the Olympics. Do

16:15

you just follow your your

16:20

intuition or like, what, like,

16:20

what, what motivates you and

16:24

what drives you to get out of

16:24

bed and do it? It's like,

16:28

Yeah, I do have the

16:28

coolest job in journalism, I

16:32

think I have to remind myself of

16:32

that, when I start to complain

16:36

about it, which I do sometimes.

16:36

But yeah, I've got the coolest

16:39

job. And that job is basically

16:39

just go find cool stories, which

16:43

is both freeing, but also

16:43

daunting in a weird way. Because

16:47

you're, it's almost too big of

16:47

an expanse to wrap your head

16:50

around. So I rely on things just

16:50

to kind of hit me, you know,

16:55

like, like little asteroids,

16:55

like, Oh, that's a good story

16:58

there and look at that thing

16:58

flying by that's not much to

17:00

grab on to and in check out. You

17:00

know, my whole mantra is to try

17:05

to write stories that are

17:05

unexpected that our readers

17:08

don't go looking for, but they

17:08

stumble across, and somehow gets

17:12

sucked into and think at the

17:12

end. I'm so glad I randomly ran

17:16

into that story, because I would

17:16

have never searched it out. And

17:21

so it allows me to think about

17:21

stories, you know, in the

17:24

climbing world, or in the world

17:24

of a lot of these kind of what

17:27

we might consider secondary

17:27

sports that the Olympics is

17:30

filled with. I tried to stress

17:30

stretch the bounds of what a

17:34

sports story is, I've written

17:34

plenty of stories where people

17:37

have written to me saying, why

17:37

was that a sports story? You

17:41

know, why? Why was the cover of

17:41

the sports page about Rubik's

17:45

Cubes? Something? I said, Well,

17:45

I don't really know. But it

17:49

fascinates me. So maybe it

17:49

fascinates other people too.

17:53

JOHN you the

17:53

reason your stories are

17:55

interesting is because you're

17:55

they cross all country and

18:00

cultural boundaries are about

18:00

people about human beings like

18:04

who who cry and die or or lose

18:04

or win against all odds. It's a

18:11

visitor. These are stories of

18:11

the soul. And you're bringing us

18:16

stories that have meaning I'm

18:16

maybe I'm maybe I'm putting too

18:21

much you know, kind of, you

18:21

know, golden circles on this, if

18:25

you will Olympics, but it's

18:25

about the soul. It's about

18:29

people and sports is your

18:29

conduit.

18:33

Yeah, it's, it's,

18:33

it's fascinating, because I

18:37

really don't care who wins or

18:37

loses. I think I gave up a long

18:40

time ago really caring about the

18:40

results of of who wins the gold

18:44

medal or who wins the Super

18:44

Bowl. I just want to know what's

18:49

at the heart of this? What's the

18:49

bigger cultural context here?

18:52

What's the tiny little story

18:52

about the person who won or

18:57

lost? I remember years ago, I

18:57

had a colleague of mine who

19:02

pointed out that I tend to go to

19:02

the losers locker room that I

19:06

tend to write about losers more

19:06

than winners. And I think I

19:09

think they're right on I think I

19:09

believe people who have lost are

19:13

more interesting, generally than

19:13

people who have won. And I think

19:16

that now extrapolates as I get

19:16

older, into people who have

19:19

suffered, and people in some

19:19

cases who have died. A lot of

19:23

stories I do now are about

19:23

people who literally have died.

19:28

And it's maybe a little mccobb.

19:28

But, you know, I think those are

19:33

more important stories than the

19:33

scoreboard. And that's that's

19:38

what draws my interest. And I

19:38

hope that some people, least a

19:41

few people see it the same way.

19:41

I'm thankful that some of my

19:43

editors see it the same way so

19:43

they keep publishing them.

19:46

Before I let you

19:46

go, john, so when you work are

19:50

you a guy who you open up your

19:50

laptop? Are you good to go? Or

19:53

is there a place whether you're

19:53

at home work like how Where's

19:57

your How do you Build your

19:57

little safe place to do your

20:02

work.

20:03

Yeah, I'm pretty low maintenance. I think it comes from always being out of a

20:05

laptop bag and going into press

20:08

boxes when I was a little bit

20:08

younger and so I'm very adept at

20:12

working in airport lounges or

20:12

and airport gates, and coffee

20:17

shops, and I don't mind noise

20:17

around me. I don't mind sitting

20:21

outside. I don't mind people

20:21

having a conversation near me,

20:24

generally. I think I'm pretty

20:24

easy. So give me my phone more

20:28

and more. But to right, open up

20:28

a laptop and start going. Yeah,

20:34

I don't, I don't need a lot. I

20:34

don't need a lot of space. In

20:37

fact, I barely need a chair for

20:37

a lot of stories. Right? Give me

20:40

a Wi Fi connection. I'm pretty good.

20:42

So when you're on

20:42

the go, then it does then it

20:46

almost doesn't even matter your

20:46

your work the quality or the

20:50

what it is you're trying to get

20:50

it as it's not where you're

20:54

writing from. It's just, it's,

20:54

you are able to go there in your

20:59

head and do it no matter what's

20:59

going on.

21:02

Yeah, I guess I

21:02

mean, I don't give it a whole

21:04

lot of thought. But you know, a

21:04

lot of it's just a matter of you

21:07

do what you can I mean, I have

21:07

filed stories from you know, I

21:11

think probably pretty good

21:11

stories from sitting on the

21:14

floor of the airport terminal,

21:14

or I know I've filed stories

21:17

from the trunk, standing at the

21:17

trunk of my car, trying to get a

21:21

cell signal. Yeah, you just kind

21:21

of do what you can especially as

21:25

you roam around the world around

21:25

the country and I live in the

21:27

West so I do a lot of stories

21:27

and I have done a lot of stories

21:30

are from rural America. You're

21:30

just kind of fitting in wherever

21:34

you can make your little

21:34

workspace and hope you have

21:36

enough of a signal somehow to

21:36

get your story to New York.

21:40

What's your thing

21:40

you know to get you inspired?

21:43

Are you a breeder mp3 player

21:43

going all the time? Do you have

21:47

a some meditative Music Playing

21:47

or baseball game in the

21:52

background?

21:53

Yeah, that's

21:53

interesting. I will sometimes

21:56

listen to music. I had an old

21:56

mentor of mine who said turn on

22:01

classical music. So it's

22:01

interesting you say that because

22:03

just in the last few days, I've started listening to more classical music again, just do a

22:05

Spotify play. Play Tchaikovsky.

22:09

And so one day I'll listen to

22:09

Chucky Tchaikovsky all day long.

22:12

Just to have it on in the

22:12

background. But yeah, sometimes

22:16

music but I also don't mind just

22:16

the the constant drone of my

22:21

family bouncing around or like I

22:21

say in a coffee shop or I'll sit

22:24

outside and the birds will make

22:24

noise I sometimes call New York

22:27

and I worried that they wonder

22:27

what I'm doing because I know

22:30

they can hear the birds in the

22:30

background Yeah, I like I

22:35

generally like ambient noises

22:35

you know when I hike and when I

22:37

run I don't listen to my music

22:37

anymore because I want to be

22:40

sort of more aware more part of

22:40

the environment. So yeah, that's

22:45

a roundabout answer. I think I

22:45

think I will do a little bit of

22:48

everything.

22:49

Super cool. What

22:49

about when you when you're gonna

22:53

go on a trip? Whether it's you

22:53

know, the Olympics for a few

22:59

weeks or whatever? What what do

22:59

you what has to be with you what

23:03

you could forget everything but

23:03

or is there anything? Could you

23:07

lose your bag and you'd be fine.

23:10

I think I have to

23:10

have my phone. Because they can

23:13

now do everything. They record

23:13

interviews, they take pictures

23:16

and videos. I can file on them

23:16

if I really had to. So I think

23:20

my phone and my charger or my my

23:20

go twos now and beyond that. I

23:25

could probably just walk out the

23:25

door and, and be okay.

23:30

What about for a

23:30

neophyte who doesn't travel that

23:32

much? If they were like, john,

23:32

I'm gonna go to Bolivia. What

23:36

should I bring with me? Not that

23:36

you're a Bolivia guy

23:41

necessarily, but I'm sure you've

23:41

been there.

23:44

Yeah, what would I

23:44

bring with me? You know, I

23:47

always bring some sort of snack

23:47

mix or like almonds, right for

23:51

you. And I talked I was sinner

23:51

chewing on some almonds. Just

23:54

something in case you find

23:54

yourself either unable to eat

23:58

food for a while or you find

23:58

yourself with no options because

24:02

you land in the middle of the

24:02

night. Or you find yourself

24:04

someplace where nothing looks

24:04

very appetizing where there is

24:06

not a 711 on the corner offering

24:06

egg salad sandwiches

24:12

Do you know that

24:12

this just popped into my head so

24:16

when you you traveled through a

24:16

lot of different countries, I

24:19

don't know if you have your

24:19

running count going. But But

24:23

when you go to a place like

24:23

maybe in South America might not

24:27

be so vital is so vital because

24:27

I've gone into South American

24:30

countries and other than not

24:30

really speaking the language

24:33

fluently. You can kind of blend

24:33

in a little bit. But in in in

24:36

countries like Japan, there are

24:36

there are a lot more social

24:40

customs. So do you like I mean,

24:40

do you kind of have to like sit

24:45

back and let other people lead

24:45

because I hear that it's, it's

24:49

you could offend people if you

24:49

do something wrong.

24:53

Yeah. I have the

24:53

great luxury generally when I

24:56

travel for work overseas, of

24:56

either being someplace somewhat

25:00

familiar or of having somebody

25:00

who's kind of a fixer or

25:03

translator that can kind of

25:03

guide me, I'll tell you that

25:06

when I went to Tokyo a couple

25:06

years ago, for the first time,

25:10

we did a lot of meetings with

25:10

people because we were talking

25:12

about things like how they're

25:12

going to deal with the heat, or

25:16

what they would do in case of an

25:16

emergency. So we had a lot of

25:18

meetings with a lot of manage

25:18

managers at these various pure

25:24

autocracies until Tokyo. And

25:24

then about the third day, I ran

25:27

out of business cards. I haven't

25:27

I mean, I hadn't given out a

25:30

business card in a year. But I

25:30

had like 10, and I ran out of

25:34

them in the first day, because

25:34

that's part of the customers,

25:37

you hand people your business

25:37

card. And so I collected a bunch

25:40

and I gave away a bunch and I thought, What am I going to do the next two weeks, I have no

25:42

business cards here. And so he

25:45

felt really rude by showing up

25:45

to these meetings trying to

25:48

explain and you know, my

25:48

English, then having the

25:51

translator say he's sorry, he

25:51

just doesn't have enough

25:54

business cards.

25:56

There's no kinkos

25:56

next to the Lawson sec. Say?

26:01

No. Next to losses

26:01

are 711. Yeah, there's no coffee

26:05

machine there of all things.

26:07

Unreal. i'm john.

26:07

Cool. So So let me ask you this

26:12

before I let you go. And I thank

26:12

you for jumping into this on a

26:16

Friday afternoon. Are is there

26:16

as a cool story you're working

26:20

on now? Can you can you divulge

26:20

anything,

26:26

there are just

26:26

gotten back from the Olympics.

26:28

So I'm now sort of rebooting

26:28

something. So I do have a cool

26:31

story, actually, in the climbing

26:31

realm, actually in South America

26:34

that I will tell you about off

26:34

the record. And another time,

26:38

perhaps, that I'm excited about

26:38

getting back to and I'm also

26:42

focused a lot on the Beijing

26:42

Olympics, which because of the

26:45

pandemic, really less than six

26:45

months away from the Winter

26:48

Olympics. So quick flip to

26:48

winter seasons, and I'll be

26:53

writing a bunch of stories

26:53

leading up to Beijing. 2022.

26:56

Wow.

26:58

Oh, man, that is

26:58

so awesome. From Japan to China

27:03

in in the course of a year. Half

27:03

a year. Really? That's pretty

27:07

cool.

27:08

Yeah, yeah. Nobody's feeling sorry for me. Especially I feel sorry for

27:11

myself sometimes.

27:13

Yeah. Right.

27:13

Especially not your wife and

27:15

kids.

27:16

Right? Crimea

27:16

River. Yeah. Hey, um,

27:18

so do you know By

27:18

the way, what your got your

27:21

running counters for how many

27:21

countries you've been to?

27:23

I don't. It's not

27:23

that many. I'm not a great world

27:27

traveler. But it's, you know,

27:27

most of Europe and a few

27:30

countries in Asia and only one

27:30

in South America. So it's

27:35

probably 30 I would guess, john,

27:35

as always, thank

27:39

you for your time,

27:39

your work, your incredible work

27:43

and the friendship. I appreciate

27:43

you so much. I have no idea.

27:47

Thank you. Keep

27:47

that smile go and we need more

27:50

of those. As I said and always a

27:50

pleasure to see you.

27:58

JOHN branch's

27:58

recent book is called side

28:01

country, tales of death and life

28:01

from the backroads of sports.

28:06

JOHN is on Twitter and Instagram

28:06

at john branch and yt. And you

28:12

of course can read his works in

28:12

the New York Times. Thanks for

28:17

visiting tools for nomads and

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28:22

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