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0:35

Today on the Town Hall Review with Hugh Hewitt, brought

0:37

to you in partnership with the Pepperdine Graduate

0:39

School of Public Policy. Eleven

0:43

Russian and Chinese warships approach the

0:45

Aleutian Islands in Alaska.

0:46

Representative Mike Gallagher responds. These

0:49

large demonstrations at sea are happening

0:51

because our Navy no longer dominates the sea.

0:53

Retired General Jack Kane looks at the challenges

0:56

ahead. It's well documented the Chinese

0:59

are outgunning us and outmanning us. Our

1:02

industrial base is in bad shape

1:04

when it comes to preparing for war. The

1:06

first of many tit-for-tat moves, I think, in

1:08

the legal realm where Jack Smith is

1:10

the prosecutor. I talked to Dr. Larry Arnott

1:12

Hillsdale about what it says about us as

1:15

a nation. When people become

1:16

powerful, the chances that

1:19

some are going to become more powerful

1:21

over others go up a lot. All

1:23

this and more. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Great to be

1:25

with you. Catch my program each weekday

1:27

morning live, 6 to 9 a.m. Eastern

1:30

time and on demand 24-7. Learn

1:32

more at HughHewitt.com. And

1:35

follow me on the site formerly known as Twitter,

1:37

X

1:38

at Hugh Hewitt. Follow this program

1:40

as well on X at Town Hall

1:42

Review. We'll begin in Alaska

1:45

and the brazen provocation early this week

1:47

from Chinese and Russian combined naval forces

1:50

as they approach the Aleutian Islands.

1:52

The flotilla was composed of 11 ships

1:55

and has been described as a historic

1:57

first.

1:58

Wisconsin Representative Mike Gallagher.

1:59

has been hitting the alarm bell on the China

2:02

threat for some time now. The chair

2:04

of the China Select Committee was a guest on my

2:06

program. Chairman

2:08

Gallagher, the Chinese-Russian

2:10

naval movement came up on special report and

2:12

I was a member of the panel. I want to play for you

2:14

my response to get your comment on a cut number

2:17

three.

2:18

One of the things you do is that

2:21

critics of this administration say that that moment

2:24

emboldened our enemies or

2:27

our challengers. You see what happened

2:29

with China and Russia very close to

2:31

the Alaskan coast. Senator

2:33

Dan Sullivan, Republican from Alaska, saying

2:36

the incursion by 11 Chinese and Russian

2:38

warships operating together off the coast of Alaska

2:41

is yet another reminder that we have entered

2:43

a new era of authoritarian aggression

2:45

led by the dictators in Beijing and

2:48

Moscow. Obviously there's a lot of

2:50

things that factor in here, but does

2:52

it go back to that initial original

2:54

sin, if you will, about the Afghanistan

2:56

withdrawal?

2:58

I think it goes back actually to President Obama's

3:00

red line that was erased and then the original

3:03

Putin invasion of Ukraine, but most certainly

3:05

Abigail and the disastrous withdrawal

3:07

from Afghanistan plays into it. Now

3:09

the Russians and the Chinese were not within our

3:12

waters. They did not come within 12 miles or 24 miles

3:14

or anything that would be

3:16

a violation of international law. I think the

3:18

appropriate response would be to send 11 of

3:20

our warships through the Taiwan Strait, which

3:23

is also international waters and which always

3:26

is objected to by the People's Liberation Army Navy.

3:28

But this administration is known for its

3:31

weakness and its appeasement, so they'll

3:33

probably send John Kerry over to beg

3:35

for some more climate concessions as opposed

3:37

to warships through the Strait.

3:39

Mike Gallagher, what do you think we ought

3:41

to do about that? Well,

3:43

first, I hate to compliment you, but I couldn't

3:45

have said it better myself. In particular,

3:49

you made an important point, which is that

3:51

the US-China strategic

3:54

competition or what I call a new Cold

3:56

War did not start during

3:58

the Trump administration.

3:59

This is important because

4:02

we need to understand that this isn't just a

4:04

Xi Jinping thing. This is something embedded

4:07

in the DNA of the Chinese Communist

4:09

Party. Chairman Gallagher, the

4:12

only show I do regularly is Brett Bear's show

4:14

because Brett's serious.

4:15

And last night he made the statement

4:18

that the Chinese naval buildup is

4:20

the largest in history. It's the first

4:22

time I've heard a television

4:25

host make what is the most

4:27

important statement. We're not

4:29

talking about climate change. The most important

4:32

statement is that the Chinese naval buildup,

4:34

their projecting power around the globe, is

4:37

the largest in the history

4:39

of the world. And Brett

4:41

made it last night. And the only way to respond

4:44

is with like-kind

4:46

measures, building ships and sending

4:48

them through the Taiwanese Strait. But

4:51

this administration is frozen.

4:54

It's like they're a deer in headlights. What

4:56

do we do?

4:57

Well, I sincerely hope,

5:00

and Brett is great, particularly

5:02

given his role in the first presidential debate,

5:05

that this issue

5:07

comes to the front and center of the Republican

5:09

presidential primary. My perception thus

5:11

far is that China has really been taking

5:14

a backseat to other issues. I watched

5:16

the forum that they had in Iowa and it rarely came up. Certain

5:19

candidates like Ron DeSantis brought

5:21

it up proactively and spoke very well and

5:23

tough about China. But this is

5:26

the most important geopolitical issue, perhaps

5:28

because Republican candidates share a

5:31

hawkish critique of the Biden administration. It's

5:33

perceived not to be a wedge issue, but

5:35

every candidate needs to be asked what their plan

5:37

is for countering this massive, not

5:39

just naval buildup, but nuclear buildup, which

5:42

is really unlike anything we've seen in

5:44

modern history on the part of the China. And

5:46

to tie it to where you started, these large

5:48

demonstrations at sea are happening,

5:50

because our Navy no longer dominates the sea.

5:53

By underinvesting, we have invited the

5:55

aggression. Put differently, the CCP

5:57

has spent at least 25 years single-mindedly

5:59

proactively. preparing to fight us, but

6:01

we have gotten complacent. We need

6:04

to rebuild our Navy before it's too late over

6:06

the medium and long term, but in the

6:08

short term, i.e. the next five years, we

6:11

need to take advantage of the fact that we are no

6:13

longer bound by the Intermediate Nuclear Forces

6:15

Treaty and surge long-range

6:18

precision fires. These are things that don't take

6:20

as long to build as a big

6:22

battleship, a big warship. We can

6:25

surge them to the Indo-Pacific. These are

6:27

things that can also sink Chinese

6:29

ships at relatively low cost. It

6:31

is within the power of the President and

6:33

the Secretary of Defense, if they have the energy,

6:36

the creativity, and the ruthless prioritization

6:39

of American national interest to do this and

6:41

dramatically enhance our deterrent posture

6:44

over the next five years. This needs

6:46

to be a campaign issue. Republican

6:49

candidates need to be asked about their specific

6:51

plan for rebuilding American sea

6:53

power in general and enhancing our near-term

6:56

deterrent in particular, and thus far, I

6:58

haven't seen that happen, which is unfortunate.

6:59

Retired Army General

7:02

Jack Kane has been tracking closely with Russia's

7:04

aggression in Europe, and the assertiveness

7:06

and aggression from the Chinese had seemed to increase

7:09

by the week these days. Kane now

7:11

heads up the Institute for the Study of War.

7:13

He was a guest of Joe Piscobow on AM 970, the answer.

7:17

Militarily, what is the message they're

7:19

trying to send, sir?

7:22

Well, certainly, they're underscoring the importance

7:25

of the political and military relationship

7:27

that these two countries have

7:29

joined together, and it is

7:31

significant. I mean, we haven't faced two

7:34

major powers in

7:37

different parts of the world like this since

7:40

World War II, when we had

7:42

to deal with the Germans in Europe

7:45

and the Japanese in the Pacific. And

7:49

certainly, that is very challenging for

7:51

us, particularly now that Russia

7:53

has started a war in Europe, and

7:55

China is threatening a war in

7:58

the Pacific.

7:59

to

8:01

take these countries seriously. And you

8:03

know, Joe, the reality is we didn't take

8:05

Russia very seriously. When

8:07

they were threatening to do more in

8:10

Ukraine, we dismissed them as a

8:13

country that was struggling economically,

8:16

had sort of a third world economy,

8:18

but was a nuclear power. And

8:21

look what happened. They invaded

8:23

Europe and started a war that we haven't seen

8:26

on the scale since World War II. And

8:29

we've got China threatening the

8:31

very same thing. The fact that they

8:33

just came out with a documentary, eight parts

8:36

were in that documentary. They're talking

8:38

about a war with Taiwan

8:41

and encouraging their troops

8:43

to be brave in fighting this war. So

8:46

their rhetoric is much

8:49

the same as Putin's was, in the sense

8:51

that he had a design of taking

8:54

more territory, and we were dismissive

8:56

of it. And she

8:58

has the same. And we've got to make certain

9:01

that we're not paying lip service to it, that we're

9:04

really putting honest to God

9:06

capability in the Pacific region, that

9:08

he will recognize as

9:10

a deterrent to his use in force.

9:13

Doesn't it make you nervous that

9:16

China is not showing us and

9:18

Russia as well, or Iran, showing

9:21

us any respect at all? I mean,

9:23

does that concern you at the institute, sir?

9:26

Well, we're certainly concerned,

9:29

particularly with China, in the

9:32

advances that they're making technologically

9:36

while their economy is struggling, they're

9:38

still making significant military advances.

9:42

And I'm on a congressional commission that's

9:44

looking, a bipartisan commission,

9:46

I may add, that's looking at the national defense

9:48

strategy of 2022. And

9:52

when we look at that, I mean, we have a preliminary report

9:54

that'll come out in the fall and final

9:57

report next year. But I mean, it's

9:59

well done. documented that the

10:01

Chinese are outgunning us

10:03

and outmanning us.

10:06

We need to catch up, but it's very

10:08

challenging to catch up. Let me give

10:11

our audience just one perspective on

10:13

that. The Chinese have over 10

10:16

shipbuilding plants

10:21

in China. They're

10:23

a huge industrial capability. We

10:26

have two and a half. From

10:28

what they turn out, we can't

10:31

even catch up, much

10:33

less go platform to

10:35

platform. It's just not going to

10:37

happen. What we have to do is come

10:41

to the realization that

10:43

China is going to outgun us

10:45

and outman us. But

10:47

what we have to make certain we have is

10:50

enough capability to

10:52

spike their advantage in numbers,

10:55

that we have enough capability. When they look

10:57

at us, they don't want to get

10:59

involved in conflict because the cost

11:01

will be too great. That was the kind

11:04

of success we had during the

11:06

Cold War, Joe. The Soviet

11:08

Union outnumbered us in people, in

11:11

divisions, in tanks, and

11:13

in airplanes as well. But we put

11:15

together enough of a strong coalition

11:18

to look at that, that they had a look at

11:20

in NATO and our troops were forward

11:22

deployed in the region. We

11:24

practiced it as well,

11:27

that their generals looked at that and said, no,

11:30

this is going to be too hard. They

11:32

never, ever tried it. That

11:34

is the result we've got to get to in the

11:38

Pacific. We're not there yet. We need

11:40

the Biden administration to recognize the

11:42

seriousness and urgency of the

11:45

issue I'm talking about.

11:46

And before we let you go, sir, did

11:49

we handle, was our response

11:51

just against

11:53

the Chinese and Russians going

11:56

by the Aleutian Islands? Did we handle that in a

11:58

just way, sir?

11:59

Yeah, I mean, we're not

12:02

going to stop them from doing what they're doing.

12:04

They're in international waters. We

12:06

got a patrol up there of four ships, and

12:09

we had airplanes monitoring it. Look

12:11

at—they're trying

12:13

to return the tables on

12:16

Russia. I mean, think about what has

12:18

happened there. They invaded the country, thinking they were

12:20

going to take it over in a couple of weeks. Now

12:22

they're defending against the Ukrainians.

12:25

They failed to take the country over. They're

12:27

trying to hold on to the territory

12:29

they took in 2014. And

12:31

the Ukrainians certainly are

12:34

moving slowly and struggling, but nonetheless

12:36

are slowly taking back even

12:39

that territory, and hopefully they'll

12:41

be able to get most of it back. And

12:44

here we have—China is reacting

12:46

to the fact that we have begun

12:49

to exercise with our allies

12:51

in the Pacific region, but the country's

12:53

working together, recognizing

12:56

the threat that China is presenting,

12:58

and we're exercising, and

13:00

the Chinese resent it. So

13:02

this is one of the reasons why this

13:05

patrol is taking place off

13:07

the Aleutian Islands. Coming up,

13:10

former President Trump prepares for his day

13:12

in court. The Justice Department has gone

13:15

inside a protective order saying he can't

13:17

talk about the

13:17

case anymore. When the town hall

13:19

review returns in a moment.

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As the Pepperdine Graduate School of Public Policy

13:32

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15:31

welcome back to the town hall review at Hugh

15:33

Hewitt I'm sure you've all tracked

15:35

with the latest from special counsel Jack Smith

15:38

he has coaxed the grand jury in the District of Columbia

15:40

to issue a second federal indictment against

15:43

former President Trump Trump of

15:45

course has not been reticent in expressing

15:47

how he feels about all of this we

15:50

look ahead to what Jack Smith says will be a

15:52

speedy trial we'll

15:53

turn now to John Solomon of just

15:55

the news

15:56

once again with Joe Piscopo

15:58

John what's going on there please

16:00

Well, the Justice Department very quickly,

16:03

because President Trump has been pretty candid

16:05

about what he thinks about these indictments, the Justice

16:07

Department has gone and sought a protective order

16:10

saying he can't talk about the case anymore. And

16:13

President Trump must respond and tell

16:15

the judge why he thinks he should be allowed to have his

16:17

free speech during this lead up

16:19

to one of the three trials that he's facing already.

16:22

And so the first of many tit-for-tat

16:25

moves, I think, in the legal

16:27

realm where Jack Smith is the prosecutor,

16:30

but I think I would not

16:32

be surprised if by today or tomorrow

16:34

the judge ordered a protective order saying the president

16:36

can't talk about the case.

16:38

And then change of venue. Donald Trump

16:40

said, I want to change a venue and I want a

16:42

judge replacement. And that is more than

16:44

fair because you and I and everybody else I think

16:46

is looking at this saying, how could you possibly have a fair

16:48

trial with this judge in Washington, D.C.?

16:52

Who makes that decision that the venue

16:54

is changed or that the judge is replaced, John,

16:57

please? The judge herself to begin with.

16:59

So the very judge is just need to remove herself

17:01

to make the first decision. It becomes

17:03

appealable at that point. But

17:06

you know, the D.C. is a city where 90

17:08

percent of the people did not vote for Donald

17:10

Trump in 16 or 20. So the idea

17:13

that the jury pool might be tainted

17:15

is a challenge for them. And I think that that'll

17:17

be interesting to see how the courts deal

17:20

with that system.

17:21

Yeah, it seems so. I mean, it's

17:24

I mean, a foregone conclusion that this gal is

17:27

this this judge is going to be biased.

17:29

But my goodness gracious, she makes the decision

17:31

just to reiterate. She's the one that says, OK,

17:34

you can replace me.

17:35

And that probably will

17:37

not happen. John Solomon, correct? Yeah,

17:40

I think at the outset, it won't. Then

17:42

the question is, do you appeal it? Do you have grounds

17:44

for appealing it to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals

17:46

or the Supreme Court? I suspect

17:48

some of these cases are going to go up and down the appellate

17:51

and Supreme Court passed pretty quickly. All

17:54

of this, we are seeing from Jack Smith and Attorney

17:56

General Merrick Garland has all of it made

17:58

me concerned.

17:59

I turned to a regular on my program and a partner

18:02

via his role as the president of Hillsdale College,

18:05

Dr. Larry Auernt. I

18:07

think this is perilous times,

18:09

Dr. Auernt. How did you react to this?

18:12

Bad news. I had the misfortune

18:14

of seeing it in the middle of the night. And

18:16

I, it, uh... Back in the

18:18

day, I thought that Trump raised

18:20

legitimate concerns and he did it for

18:22

a month too long. But is it a

18:24

crime to do that? There's

18:27

reasons to wonder about the election. They

18:29

changed voting procedures in big ways in

18:32

much of the country. And they,

18:35

in general, they did it in the executive

18:37

branch alone. And that's

18:39

something you'd want to... uh... the Constitution

18:41

places the state legislatures, not

18:44

the state governments, state legislatures in

18:46

charge of the manner of choosing electors. And

18:48

they altered those things in several states.

18:51

And so there should be questions about

18:54

that, but you know, as I say, I think

18:56

the writing was on the wall

18:59

he might have picked a moment to

19:01

retire gracefully. Let's say that's

19:03

a political judgment. And let's say

19:05

I made or you made or anybody made a different

19:08

one from him. Is a

19:10

political judgment criminal? He's

19:12

making the point that they're interfering

19:14

with the twenty-four election.

19:17

And does anybody doubt that that's got

19:19

something to do with these things that are going on? I

19:22

am worried not about... Oh, I am worried about this

19:25

year and next year. But I'm worried about four

19:27

years from now and eight years and twelve years

19:30

and are prosecuting political opponents.

19:33

It sends a shutter down my spine to think

19:35

we are going down this road.

19:36

Yeah, that's... And see, that means that

19:39

if you can do this it gives additional

19:41

force to the people who have the

19:44

upper hand. I mean,

19:46

one of the

19:47

members of the Politburo was shot

19:49

during a Politburo meeting early days

19:52

of the Soviet Union. And after that

19:54

they sort of made an agreement not to do that anymore.

19:57

Wait, two...

19:59

two or fifteen can play at this

20:02

game. Well, this is

20:04

not a good game. Another

20:07

thing about it is, finally what

20:09

you want. Lincoln said a beautiful

20:12

thing. He said many.

20:14

A constitutional majority shifting

20:17

easily with changes in public

20:19

mood is the only true

20:22

sovereign of a free people. And

20:24

that means that, as I say,

20:27

if you concentrate power in

20:29

the ways that we do, and part

20:32

of it is just technology. You know,

20:34

I mean, it's just a massive fact

20:37

that your news can be filtered

20:39

for you individually. And

20:42

that means in mass collectively

20:44

too. And so that's, we

20:47

didn't used to be able to do that. And

20:49

that's just power. That's a great theme

20:51

of Winston Churchill's right. When people

20:54

become powerful,

20:56

the chances that some are going to become

20:59

more powerful over others go

21:01

up a lot. Well, the idea of this Jack

21:04

Smith, I call him the Javert of America,

21:07

coming out of nowhere, being recalled from the

21:09

Hague, having lost a case at the Supreme

21:11

Court, which was an

21:13

extravagant prosecution of a sitting

21:15

governor that was overturned by the

21:17

court unanimously. You know, I've

21:19

never believed the deep state stuff. I believe

21:21

we have an administrative state that is perilous

21:23

in its power. But this is a

21:26

public prosecutor. It really is Javert from

21:28

Lamies. It really is scary.

21:31

Yeah, you know, what they're accusing

21:34

Trump of is lack of restraint and personal

21:36

grasping for power. Look

21:39

at this. It's all over the place.

21:41

At some point, Trump

21:43

is accused of not bowing to the will

21:45

of the people. Are they? You know,

21:48

what about the people? I think

21:51

that there's a they, right? Who's they?

21:54

My old friend John Marini, who sort

21:56

of started many people, including me,

21:59

down the road of thinking about the growth of the

22:01

administrative state, and that was in the

22:03

1970s, he's written, if

22:07

you have a large class of people who are

22:09

educated alike and who

22:12

see a different form of government as

22:14

the right form, then they

22:16

will just act and

22:19

they don't have to be coordinated. And

22:22

you know, what is the issue here, right? Where

22:24

is the protection for

22:26

the rights of the people under a powerful

22:29

government? That in the Constitution,

22:31

that is in decentralization

22:34

above all, and in the separations

22:36

of powers that that makes possible. There

22:39

are many constituencies that don't even all

22:41

vote at the same time and in the same way, and

22:43

they delegate their authority at different

22:45

times and different ways to competing branches

22:48

of government. That's the old scheme. That

22:50

scheme has been extensively overturned

22:53

and it was done for reasons that are explicit.

22:55

They thought, no, the real protection

22:58

will be that there will be a professional

23:00

and tenured class of people

23:03

who are highly trained and

23:05

they won't have... This is actually an argument.

23:07

I can find it for the audience if they want

23:10

me to. When you put it up, R.J. Pastrigo

23:12

wrote a great book review of this,

23:14

of an old book. He argues that

23:17

you don't have to worry about these people

23:19

abusing power because they

23:22

won't have any interest separate

23:24

from their jobs because they

23:26

will have tenure and they will

23:28

be guaranteed a salary. And

23:30

so there will be no reason for them to act

23:33

in their personal interest. That's the

23:35

burden of the argument, right?

23:37

And is that as safe

23:39

as separation of powers? Everything

23:42

starts with the voter and the

23:44

voter is independent

23:46

in making his decisions. That

23:49

old system, which has worked

23:51

longer than anything

23:54

ever in history, that system

23:56

has substantially changed

23:58

now. 80-year-old Virginia.

23:59

opinion lady. Why are people hate Trump

24:02

so much? And I said without even thinking,

24:04

because he, he beat Hillary and he disintermediated

24:07

their power and their money. Coming

24:10

up, we'll look at Israel with Michael Oren.

24:12

I said to the Prime Minister, why don't we create a state

24:14

commission that will look at Israel's future?

24:17

And the town hall review with Hugh Hewitt returns

24:19

in a moment. Stay with us.

24:26

Hi, it's Mike Gallagher. I start every day

24:29

by reading through the stories at Daybreak Insider.

24:31

In just 10 minutes, I can zip through 10 stories

24:33

that help me start my day and help shape where

24:35

I go with the Mike Gallagher show. Over

24:38

a quarter million people get Daybreak Insider

24:40

by email daily, and it's available to you

24:42

at no cost. Go to daybreakinsider.com

24:45

and simply plug in your email. That's daybreakinsider.com.

24:49

In five minutes, Hugh will be the most informed

24:51

person in the office. That's daybreakinsider.com.

24:57

Welcome back to the town hall review with Hugh

24:59

Hewitt brought to you in partnership with our sponsor,

25:02

the Pepperdine Graduate School of Public

25:04

Policy. For the entirety of my

25:06

life, the U.S. has had one clear unwavering

25:09

ally in the Middle East. And for the entirety

25:11

of my life, there has been one uninterrupted

25:13

functional democracy in the Middle East. I'm

25:16

referring, of course, to Israel. Israel

25:18

recently passed its 75th anniversary

25:20

as a nation. And for pretty much

25:22

the entire time, I think it's fair to say

25:24

they've been dealing with one sort of existential threat

25:27

or another. Michael Oran is the

25:29

former ambassador to the United States from Israel.

25:32

Dr. Oran is an accomplished author, longtime

25:34

friend of my radio program. He joined

25:37

me to talk about his latest effort looking ahead to

25:39

the nation's centennial.

25:40

His book, 2048, The Rejuvenated

25:43

State, is on bookshelves now from

25:46

The Hugh Hewitt Show. Let's start with

25:48

why a manifesto. Why now? What's

25:50

the origin of this book? The origin

25:53

of this book started about three o'clock in the morning,

25:55

five years ago, when I was

25:57

the deputy minister to the prime minister

25:59

at the same time. Prime Minister, Matin Netanyahu. Often

26:02

we had conversations in the middle of the night because

26:05

Israeli politicians don't sleep. Our Knesset

26:07

session's gone all night. We inherited this horrible

26:10

institution from you guys. It's called a filibuster.

26:13

And often Mr. Netanyahu likes to talk about

26:15

books and I would come down and talk to him and as

26:18

we say in vernacular, we would schmooze into

26:20

the wee hours. And one night we had

26:22

this conversation about our future and

26:25

the conversation went like this. We were so bogged

26:27

down in our daily crises and look how

26:29

many crises we have right now. Crisis over the

26:31

reform, a crisis over terror from Judea

26:34

and Samaria, a crisis with the Iranians,

26:36

a crisis with the Biden administration, so many

26:39

different crises that we never get a chance to

26:41

think about tomorrow. And not just

26:43

tomorrow, we don't think long term. And

26:46

I said to the Prime Minister, why don't we create a

26:48

state commission that will look at Israel's

26:50

future and every aspect, social

26:52

policy, educational policy, foreign policy,

26:55

Palestinians, Jews, Americans,

26:58

everybody, let's do it. And it's

27:00

gonna be a huge undertaking, but it'll be worth it. So he got

27:02

very excited and gave me the green light

27:04

to create this commission on a creative commission

27:06

like that. You have to go through a lot of legal acrobatics,

27:09

gals, or permissions. It took a year.

27:11

And of course, once all the permissions were granted,

27:14

the government fell. And

27:17

so, and so with this idea

27:19

in mind, I turned to a good friend of mine, Natan

27:22

Shuransky, you know him view. And

27:24

we took this project into

27:26

a great institute in

27:28

Jerusalem, the Hartman Institute. And

27:30

for a year, we held discussions with meeting thinkers

27:33

in Israel on 2048. 2048 is of course,

27:35

Israel's hundredth

27:38

birthday, what Israel should look like

27:40

on its hundredth birthday from every aspect

27:42

again. What I did was put out

27:45

my idea of what Israel

27:47

should look like on its hundredth birthday

27:49

in terms of foreign policy, economic policy,

27:52

every area. But I'm not trying

27:54

to convince the reader that I'm right. I'm trying to get the

27:56

reader of anything annoyed.

27:58

Tell us about the Medouin.

28:00

Okay, that's an excellent place to start and often

28:03

people start there. You're not just you. That's

28:05

the chapter that gets everyone really shocked. That's

28:07

the jaw dropper. Because like

28:10

you, many people see the better one in this

28:12

romantic way, shake of Arabic, Lawrence

28:14

of Arabia, Tenzin Camels. And

28:18

yet, as I make clear in the book,

28:20

the better one actually presents an existential

28:22

threat to the state of Israel. There are several, but

28:24

this is one of the leading ones. What is it?

28:26

I've lived in the Negev for years and

28:29

I watched the Negev

28:31

disappear. You better explain the Negev

28:33

to the Steelers. The Negev is south

28:36

of Beersheva to Eilat. It is 62%

28:38

of the country is desert.

28:40

It's one of the reasons why Israel is the most densely

28:42

populated area in the world, north

28:45

of Beersheva to Haifa, that

28:48

one swath of territory. They always say that Gaza

28:50

is the most densely populated area in the world.

28:53

It's a lie. But Tel Aviv is more

28:55

than twice as densely populated as Gaza is.

28:58

Very densely populated, 62% is desert. So what's

29:00

in the desert? There are a few Israeli cities

29:02

like Dombona in Iran

29:04

and Beersheva. But

29:07

what you have there is Bedouin. And

29:09

nobody actually knows how many Bedouin there

29:12

are. The number is actually kind of

29:14

a secret. But

29:16

it's like this. You have

29:18

in the bed, in south of Beersheva, you basically

29:20

have no Israeli law. The

29:23

Bedouin have no control over gun

29:25

ownership. Guns are rampant. Drug

29:27

and drug trade is rampant. Human traffic

29:30

is rampant. But also rampant

29:33

is polygamy. Now polygamy

29:35

is against the law in the state of Israel. But no

29:37

one will find that law. It's 1978. Do I remember

29:39

the date correctly from my read? It

29:41

was outlawed by the Catholic. There are actually several laws against polygamy. No

29:44

one's polygamy except for the Bedouin. And

29:47

the Bedouin, about 30% of Bedouin males have

29:49

four wives. And it's not like Bedouin

29:51

male falls in love with third wife.

29:54

Because Bedouin male procures third

29:56

wife. They're bought. It's kind of chattel

29:59

slavery. bought from any places

30:01

throughout the Judean Samaria, even Gaza,

30:03

even Jordan, even beyond that, they're

30:05

procured. And what they do is they come and

30:07

they work. They work

30:10

brutally. Men don't work that hard. The women work

30:12

and they procreate and they have very, very

30:14

large family. So every individual better man can

30:16

have a family of 40, 50, 60 kids. Israel has child

30:21

subsidy payments meant

30:23

originally to replenish the Jewish people after

30:25

the Holocaust. So a better man

30:27

having 50 kids can sit there and

30:29

get something about a half a million shekels of salary

30:32

per month and do nothing other

30:34

than that. Procreate

30:36

coming up 25 years from now, one

30:39

out of every two elementary school children

30:41

will be ultra orthodox. And

30:43

that is simply not a sustainable model for

30:45

any modern state, not for the state of Israel. More

30:48

with ambassador Orrin on 2048

30:51

when the town hall review with Hugh Hewitt returned in

30:53

a moment

30:54

as the Pepperdine graduate school of public

30:57

policy celebrates our 25th

30:59

anniversary year. Please watch our new

31:01

promotional video based on Ronald Reagan's 1976

31:05

radio address shaping the world for a

31:07

hundred years to come on our Pepperdine

31:09

SPP YouTube channel. And if you know

31:11

someone who's thinking about graduate school this

31:13

fall, we welcome applications at

31:15

public policy.pepperdine.edu.

31:19

That's public policy.pepperdine.edu.

31:26

Welcome back to the town hall review with Hugh

31:28

Hewitt. When the contemporary nation of

31:30

Israel was founded in 1948, the population

31:33

was overwhelmingly composed of European

31:35

Jewry, who at least at the time of the foundation

31:37

of the state tended to be from the left.

31:40

Remember the socialist experiments of the kibbutzom?

31:43

Fast forward to today. The fastest growing

31:46

Jewish population is now the ultra

31:48

orthodox, the Haredim. Let's

31:50

return for more of my conversation with Dr.

31:52

Michael Orrin, former ambassador of Israel to

31:54

the United States, talking about his new

31:56

book 2048, The Rejuvenated State.

31:59

Dr. Orrin, how is the book being

32:02

received by American Jewry? Because you speak

32:04

on their behalf about issues

32:06

that have to do with the tree of life, not

32:08

being a synagogue and who gets to make Aliyah

32:11

and all that. How's it being received in America?

32:13

Very warmly. It depends

32:15

on the congregation. For example, I spoke

32:18

to you here in Baman, Boston right now, I spoke

32:20

to two modern Orthodox congregations

32:23

and the only pushback I get is interesting

32:25

is that talking about the Bedouin situation

32:27

and the ultra Orthodox situation in

32:29

the same breath.

32:30

And they actually do stand for some of the same

32:33

problems. And the problem with sovereignty, not

32:35

quite understanding what it means to be a sovereign state.

32:37

So while we don't enforce our laws vis-a-vis

32:40

the Bedouin, and that has created a

32:42

strategic danger to the state of Israel, we

32:45

don't enforce our educational laws, usually

32:47

ultra Orthodox, where the ultra

32:49

Orthodox children are getting an education that is

32:52

usually at the second grade level, very little

32:54

math, no English, certainly no civics. And

32:56

so when those young ultra Orthodox children

32:59

graduate, they cannot be part of the economy.

33:01

Nevermind serving in the army, they can't even

33:03

serve into the economy. We're a hot, remember we're a high

33:06

tech economy and that is

33:08

terrible enough today. But 25 years from

33:10

now,

33:10

one out of every two elementary school

33:13

children will be ultra Orthodox.

33:15

And that is simply not a sustainable model

33:17

for any modern state and not for the state of Israel.

33:20

And I always stressed that I have great regard to the

33:22

ultra Orthodox. It's

33:23

the only population in the world that volunteers to

33:25

be impoverished for what they believe.

33:28

And I have no desire to change

33:30

their way of life. I just want them to educate

33:32

their kids so that the state will survive. What

33:34

we've never talked about is the strategic vulnerability

33:37

that comes from concentration of the physical

33:40

mass of the Israeli population.

33:43

I did not know there were only 22,000 Jews on the Galant.

33:47

And the concentration of the physical

33:50

location in Tel Aviv is a strategic

33:52

vulnerability. Dr. Oran,

33:54

it is eggs in one basket and our

33:57

enemies know it. Well, we do. That's why they're aiming for

33:59

Tel Aviv all the time. And as I said

34:01

earlier in this broadcast, it's one of the most

34:03

densely populated areas of the world. We're

34:06

vying with Wall Street and we could

34:08

go high and high buildings, very, very

34:10

densely populated and PS, the

34:13

most expensive city on the planet.

34:15

Israel has the biggest social gap between

34:17

rich and poor of any country in the world outside

34:19

of the United States, Chile and Mexico.

34:22

That is really amazing because people

34:24

think of it as being the socialist paradise

34:27

and the kibbutz and this land is

34:29

our land. And in fact,

34:30

it's got a 1% problem that makes, you

34:33

know, it's America's 1% problem. You've

34:35

got billionaires and tech startups and you got

34:37

very smart people and then you've got a huge younger

34:39

class.

34:40

A huge younger class. And yes, we have marvelous

34:43

universal health care. It's not, you don't have the health care

34:45

problem you have in the United States and we have social

34:48

nets. We don't have people living on the street. But

34:50

poverty, yes, poverty, a

34:52

large chunk of it relates to the better-win

34:55

population and the ultra- Ashkenazi

36:00

Western

36:01

elitism, which is the Supreme Court. It's

36:03

interesting, 14 out of our 15 judges are

36:06

Ashkenazi and not Safari. Don't

36:08

come from the East, even though the majority

36:10

of Jews in the state of Israel are Safari. 92% of

36:13

Israeli taxes are paid by 20% of the people

36:15

in Israel.

36:20

That inevitably leads to a California-like

36:23

exodus of talent and tech brains.

36:25

How? I thought Netanyahu liberated the

36:27

economy.

36:29

He did as the Treasury Minister, he did a great

36:31

job. As the Prime Minister,

36:33

we've lost a lot, a lot of ground here.

36:36

Not to believe it, which is this president of government has given

36:38

an impressive number of budget,

36:40

sides of the budget, to the ultra-orthodox education

36:43

system, which is frankly a

36:46

suicidal policy in long

36:48

term for the state of Israel. And yes, it's

36:50

remarkable. In terms of OECD, we

36:53

have one of the lowest immigration rates

36:55

in the world, people leaving. But you have

36:57

to look at not just the numbers, you have to look at who's

36:59

leaving. Who is leaving are the scientists,

37:02

the doctors. Go to any university in this

37:04

country, see how many Israelis you have on the faculty. How

37:06

many Israelis do your listeners have in their communities? You

37:09

know, Los Angeles, the Valley is the third largest

37:11

Israeli city in the world, probably a million Israelis, at

37:13

least living in the United States alone. And

37:16

who are these people? Many of them are professionals.

37:19

And on one hand, this is actually a sign of the success

37:22

of the state of Israel, because there's only so many physicists

37:24

and so many doctors we can employ. And

37:27

so there's, you know, they're spillover. But a lot

37:29

of people leave because they can't afford housing,

37:32

that we have the second most expensive

37:35

grocery basket in the world after Japan.

37:37

It's interesting, the Israelis I meet outside

37:40

of Israel don't leave because of how much rocket. They

37:42

leave because of internal issues, particularly

37:44

economic issues.

37:46

You know, if you were in the United States still

37:48

and you were still a voting member, you would be

37:50

a center-left Democrat. And

37:53

you kind of think that you ought to move to the German

37:55

and other model of rental as opposed to

37:57

home ownership, because home ownership is such a nice place.

38:00

nightmare. What is the plan? Because

38:02

you can't price everybody out of a house

38:04

there and you really the rental model doesn't

38:07

increase individual wealth ever.

38:09

Well, I was part of a party for four years. We

38:11

worked to try to take down housing prices. It

38:13

is really, guess what? We failed prices.

38:16

I could have like twice as high as when we started

38:19

and why? First of all, a good

38:22

reason. Israel has the highest natural

38:24

birth rate of any industrialized country. Most

38:27

industrialized countries, including this country, have a negative birth

38:29

rate. Ours is very, very high. We're

38:31

short about 50,000, 50,000 apartments every

38:34

single year. Remember I said,

38:36

we're definitely building in 38% of the country, but 62%

38:40

is desert. All

38:42

of our materials have to be imported. Housing

38:45

prices are very high. Also most

38:47

of the land is state-owned land. The state

38:49

gets a tremendous amount of money by having

38:51

high housing prices and land prices.

38:54

You put that all together and you have a housing crisis.

38:57

We should be building different cities in the desert

38:59

and expanding out. But to do that, you need infrastructure

39:02

and you need jobs. The Golan Heights, a huge,

39:04

beautiful area, 22,000 views, as you said.

39:07

You build infrastructure, you build jobs, they

39:09

will come. Coming up. I could find

39:11

Zionism with one word, and that's responsibility,

39:13

taking responsibility for ourselves. A few

39:15

more minutes of my conversation with Dr. Michael

39:18

Oran on 2048. Stay

39:20

with us for the final segment of the town hall review

39:22

with Hugh Hewitt.

39:23

Tuning into the baseball game, monitoring

39:26

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39:28

show. These are just a few of the reasons

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need AM radio in cars. This

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message furnished by the National Association of Broadcasters.

39:53

Welcome

39:55

back to the town hall review with Hugh Hewitt.

39:58

All of you have tracked with this program.

39:59

and podcasts, as well as my own daily radio

40:02

program, The Hugh Hewitt Show, know that

40:04

I've been seeking to raise awareness on the threat

40:06

from the People's Republic of China, specifically

40:08

the threats from the Chinese Communist Party,

40:11

and especially their dictator for

40:13

life, Xi Jinping. You don't have to go

40:15

more than one or two days in the news cycle

40:17

in order to see that China is no longer, if it ever

40:19

really was, a benevolent economic competitor.

40:21

And yet Israel has navigated China's

40:24

rise in a matter that gives me and many American

40:26

friends of Israel angst. Let's return

40:28

for a few more minutes of my conversation

40:29

with Dr. Michael Oran, former ambassador

40:32

of Israel to the United States, talking about his

40:34

new book, 24K, The Rejuvenated

40:36

State. You write, quote, China

40:39

is certainly not a hostile country.

40:41

You suggest that America's position is

40:43

that Israel cannot have its American pie and Chinese

40:45

rice cake too, ultimately we must choose,

40:48

and your admonition is we must navigate. My

40:50

admonition is you got to cut ties. They're

40:53

bad guys. They have a genocide underway. The Jewish

40:55

state cannot be dealing with a genocidal dictatorial

40:58

system. On the other hand, you've got some practical

41:00

problems here. They build everything.

41:03

They build everything. They're building our northern part, our southern

41:05

port. They're building the subway system across

41:07

that street from me. They're building

41:09

about half the city to town, half the buildings

41:11

in Tel Aviv. We talked about the acute housing

41:14

shortage. They build twice as fast as everybody,

41:16

half as expensive as

41:18

everybody. And Israel's desperate

41:21

for more Chinese workers. You get up in the morning, in

41:23

my neighborhood, it looks like Shanghai. All the

41:25

guys with yellow, you know, yellow hard hats, the

41:27

bicycles, Chinese. And this is

41:29

a time when America is withdrawing strategically

41:31

from the Middle East. The Chinese have built the largest

41:33

naval base in Africa at the entrance

41:36

to the Red Sea. They're controlling the Red Sea. They're

41:38

building two bases on the shores

41:40

of the Persian Gulf, and I think they

41:43

will be rebuilding Syria. The

41:45

UN price tag for Syria, about $300 billion.

41:47

The Iranians can't

41:49

do it. The Russians can't do it. You're going to see the

41:51

Chinese are going to be building the most

41:54

important, you know, keystone state in the Middle

41:56

East and Syria. So we can't ignore

41:58

this. We can't ignore it economically. We

42:00

can't ignore it strategically. And these are

42:02

very tough calls for the leadership of the

42:04

state of Israel.

42:05

Israel has been blessed by gas. There

42:08

is a chapter in here about Israel's commitment

42:10

to the care and preservation of its

42:12

land. But first you've got to begin with

42:14

political reform because the Knesset is a nightmare,

42:17

Dr. Orn, and you describe why. But

42:19

you are against the Constitution. You just

42:21

want some amendments to the basic law, correct?

42:24

That's correct. And we're not going to get a Constitution.

42:26

You're not going to get people in Philadelphia today to agree on

42:28

American Constitutions. And you're not

42:30

going to get the Israeli settler and the ultra-reflex

42:32

Jew and the Arab and the communist to sit in a

42:34

room and get a Constitution. So let's forget

42:37

about a Constitution. We actually exist because we're very

42:39

flexible and we have these laws. We have

42:41

to just take these laws more

42:43

seriously. It's very important

42:45

to end on a positive note because this is actually

42:47

a positive book at the end. Yes,

42:49

it is. And it's about optimism, about hope. I

42:52

define Zionism with one word, and that's

42:54

responsibility, taking responsibility for ourselves.

42:57

None of the problems we've mentioned are without solutions. And

43:00

most of the solutions aren't rocket science. They aren't. We're

43:03

a superpower. We're listed among the superpowers

43:05

of the world.

43:06

It can be done if

43:08

we are aware and if we take responsibility.

43:11

That's the thrust of this book. And

43:13

it begins with discussing these issues one another

43:16

and not sweeping them under the park garden. Thank

43:18

you for joining us for the Town Hall Review with Hugh

43:20

Hewitt. Catch up on earlier episodes of

43:23

this program at our website, townhallreview.com.

43:26

Special thanks to executive producer Russell Shubin,

43:28

producers David Bouchon, Tim Gantner,

43:31

Adam Ramsey, Harley Eide, and

43:33

Dwayne Patterson. And let me say...