0:10

Hi everyone and welcome

0:10

back to the transcending

0:12

humanity Podcast. Today we're

0:12

returning to a topic very near

0:16

Trans

0:16

Parenting. We're joined by

0:20

Deedee, I'll let you introduce yourself.

0:22

Hello, I am DD Lloyd, I

0:22

am the mom of an 82 year old

0:29

transgender son. I'm also the

0:29

founder of pride relationship

0:34

coaching, and I help parents get

0:34

out of their own way so that

0:37

they can support their child.

0:40

Fantastic. We've also got

0:40

a returning face Lisa.

0:44

I'm Lisa Magnusson, and I

0:44

am an ally. And these are my

0:49

peeps.

0:53

Amber!

0:54

I'm Amber Hollowell, I am

0:54

a health advocate. And I run an

0:58

audio room called Mama Bear and

0:58

supporting your trans child that

1:01

are on Tuesday nights. And

1:01

pretty much my goal is to make

1:05

to be the bridge to create this

1:05

type of communication where

1:10

parents can keep that

1:10

relationship with our kids and

1:12

accept them as they are.

1:14

Fantastic. And Jenni!

1:17

Hi, I'm Jenni, my

1:17

pronouns are she her, I am also

1:20

the parent of a 18 year old son

1:20

who happens to be trans. I'm

1:25

also the education director for

1:25

the gender freedom society. I'm

1:28

the parent coordinator for the

1:28

q&a group here locally in Broken

1:32

Arrow. And you know, I'm just

1:32

trying to help others maintain a

1:36

sense of peace and compassion in

1:36

a world that makes a lot of us

1:41

want to scream and burn it to

1:41

the ground.

1:45

So we are very excited to

1:45

have all of you with us,

1:48

unfortunately, Dr. Lulu was not

1:48

able to join us today is you

1:53

know, flight chaos everywhere.

1:53

And so we are actually just

1:57

going to jump right into it. As

1:57

many of you know, or, if you're

2:02

new to this do not know being a

2:02

parent, in the current climate

2:07

of a trans child is extremely

2:07

difficult. More, so depending on

2:12

where you live, you can often

2:12

feel as though the world is

2:16

really against you. But today,

2:16

I'd like to focus on some

2:19

questions that come up, at least

2:19

to me, and I'm sure other other

2:24

trans parents can identify

2:24

these. Just so you know, when

2:29

your child identifies as trans,

2:29

you have a lot of questions. And

2:33

we there's kind of a summary of,

2:33

of very common questions. So I'm

2:38

gonna go with the first one, but

2:38

we have about six of them, we're

2:40

going to start with, could my

2:40

child actually be transgender?

2:45

When my my child chose to come

2:45

to me and say, Mom, you know, I

2:51

believe I'm transgender, it

2:51

wasn't a shock to me, for me

2:54

personally, you know, they had

2:54

gone through some stages of

2:59

identity, until they found the

2:59

one that fit them. And when they

3:04

came to me with trans, they're

3:04

like, You know what, Mom? I've

3:07

tried a couple on, but this

3:07

feels right.

3:11

So, you know, first question, a

3:11

lot of parents asked is, could

3:15

my child be transgender? Do we

3:15

have any thoughts on this one?

3:19

Any experiences?

3:20

Well, I think the short

3:20

answer is yes. Because anybody

3:24

can be transgender. I mean,

3:24

specifically trans people are

3:27

trans. But I think that

3:32

I just think don't worry about

3:32

it, you know, when I remember

3:35

that, my, my responsibility, my

3:35

goal is to walk through life

3:39

with my child, whatever that

3:39

looks like, and, and not, you

3:44

know, not I don't need to

3:44

determine his fate or his future

3:47

or his present. When people said, you know, what

3:49

are you having when I was

3:52

pregnant with him? I said, I

3:52

don't care. And I meant that

3:55

then and I mean, that now. He's

3:55

still who he is. So I think that

4:00

anybody wondering if even if

4:00

your child is transgender,

4:02

they're still your child. There's, there's still that artists that that athlete, that

4:04

sensitive person that wild and

4:09

crazy goofy kid is still your kid!

4:11

did anybody else when they

4:11

were with child or expecting a

4:15

child in some form? Have neutral

4:15

colors. I had yellow. I was very

4:22

against the boy or the girl. I

4:22

was like, You know what yellow

4:26

because I cannot tell my child

4:26

who they

4:29

are. When I read in

4:29

purple, I had green and purple

4:34

and the we knew we knew what the

4:34

sex was. And my mother in law

4:40

had sent copious amounts of

4:40

pastel pink, and I'm not a pink

4:46

person and if I am I'm like a

4:46

bright hot pink, fuchsia, pink,

4:49

magenta pink. And she had sent

4:49

all this like light pink stuff,

4:53

and I was just like, ew! Ew. So

4:53

literally like two weeks before

4:58

my child was born. like in the mall because I think

5:00

the birth is January 2. So they

5:05

would do that. I think my due

5:05

date was around the first of the

5:08

year. So right after Christmas,

5:08

we're like, doing all the sales

5:10

racks for anything green,

5:10

anything purple, anything yellow

5:14

plaid, I don't care, but it

5:14

can't be painted, it cannot be

5:17

painted cannot be read. I just

5:17

did not want that I had way too

5:21

much. Like even a nursery was

5:21

done in like classic poop colors

5:25

that were like the classic blue,

5:25

the classic yellow, classic

5:29

green. So again, it didn't

5:29

matter. It was gonna be gender

5:31

neutral regardless. And

5:31

actually, I use that set for all

5:34

three of my kids.

5:36

Wow, okay, I feel like

5:36

the odd man out

5:39

I had all the pink! I wanted to know the gender

5:44

early everything was pink it was

5:48

frilly, there were dresses that

5:48

like shamed me when I see them.

5:52

And sometimes. In my life. I just had one, you

6:19

know, not celebrity examples

6:24

with real life of a transgender

6:24

person. So the fear came down to

6:28

my ignorance, really. But in

6:28

that moment, that's what gripped

6:31

my heart fear for my child's

6:31

future. And that's all I could

6:35

see. So my Yeah, I asked her

6:35

questions, and myself answered

6:39

the question. And then thank

6:39

God, it just didn't really, you

6:42

know, in there, I learned and

6:42

you know, and I was able to get

6:46

rid of that fears.

6:47

Yeah. And that's a great

6:47

example. Because that fear for

6:51

your child, that fear of the

6:51

life that you know, is coming

6:54

for them, it is totally natural.

6:54

What's not natural is to get

6:59

stuck there. Like you want to

6:59

keep moving.

7:03

So like that? Oh, God, I hope

7:03

not. You know, many people won't

7:08

admit to that. Because there's a

7:08

bit of a taboo to it. But there

7:12

is that immediate fear for a lot

7:12

of people. For for many

7:17

different reasons, you know,

7:17

especially if you grew up in a

7:19

religious household, that can be

7:19

super hard. And that's okay. It

7:24

is okay to have those fears. You

7:24

know, I think the most important

7:29

part is moving past those fears.

7:29

And trying to find a way to help

7:33

your child as best you can.

7:35

I can tell you, from that

7:35

experience, with my niece coming

7:38

out as gay. My sister in law is

7:38

very religious. It's, you know,

7:43

you know what the Bible says she

7:43

essentially told my knees,

7:46

you're going to hell in a

7:46

handbasket. And I sit and go,

7:51

No, you know, and I don't know,

7:51

I will say, it might have been

7:56

the years of teaching I did that

7:56

made me so much more accepting.

7:59

Because when you have a 1516

7:59

year old child, and Jenny, you

8:04

were talking about this before

8:04

we started recording, come to

8:06

you, and say, I need help.

8:10

Even though you're not their

8:10

parent, you take on that role.

8:13

And as a teacher, we always take

8:13

on a parental role, and to have

8:17

kids literally break down in my

8:17

class in my arms, because they

8:23

came out their parents hate

8:23

them. They've been kicked out of

8:27

the house. I come in as a

8:27

parent, I don't understand how

8:32

you can Shun your own child.

8:32

I've never understood that

8:37

mentality. But

8:39

that's a discussion for

8:39

another time, we'll talk yes,

8:42

no, no. But you know, it's

8:42

just one of those things where

8:45

you're like, This is your child.

8:45

You as a parent are supposed to

8:50

support your child, not society.

8:50

You're not supposed to be

8:54

supporting society, with their

8:54

ideals and ideas, you know,

8:58

everything. Listen to your

8:58

child. And I got very lucky that

9:04

I had a couple of students who

9:04

were trans. One of them was

9:07

going through the surgery,

9:07

getting ready to prep herself

9:10

for the surgery and everything.

9:10

And the other one was in the

9:13

process of starting at all. And

9:13

so I got to see it from both

9:16

sides. One had a very supportive

9:16

family unit. The other one came

9:21

to my pain my room every day for

9:21

lunch and talk to me and cried

9:25

on my end just you know,

9:25

basically became an adopted mom

9:28

and when they graduated, they're

9:28

still all they still call me

9:32

mom. So, you know, it's it's not

9:32

just trans Parenting is hard.

9:40

Parenting is hard. But trans

9:40

Parenting is hard also, because

9:45

of like Didi said, the unknowns

9:45

and your immediate thought is

9:51

no, you know, no, I hope not.

9:51

But at the same time, how do you

9:58

think parents how do you think your child would be reacted to that when you said

10:00

that or how did they react to

10:02

it?

10:03

If you said that, if you said that to them.

10:08

I just I sit and go, Oh my

10:08

gosh,

10:11

wow. You know?

10:13

Yeah, that is the thing.

10:13

Some parents have actually said,

10:16

I hope I said it in my head.

10:16

Church was in the background,

10:21

but I think mine was just

10:21

another strike against my child

10:25

another something to

10:25

discriminate against my child

10:29

and make a harder life for my

10:29

child that that was my fear. But

10:33

then the reality comes to you

10:33

when you really learned that

10:37

this is who my child is Lisa's

10:37

right. I mean, society is what

10:42

it is. But at the end of the

10:42

day, am I going to be part of

10:46

that? Or am I going to support

10:46

my kid, and that's what we have

10:49

to decide, even in the midst of

10:49

fear. You know, I have like,

10:54

five different reasons that I,

10:54

you know, know that some people

10:57

aren't going to accept my child,

10:57

transgender being one, you know,

11:00

and, and nevertheless, the best

11:00

thing I can do as a parent is be

11:04

that support.

11:06

I love you, both of you.

11:06

Thank you so much for sharing

11:09

that. The next question is, are

11:09

they too young to know, in my

11:16

circumstances, again, you know,

11:16

my child was 10, when they

11:19

started, you know, looking into

11:19

maybe I am not this gender

11:25

assigned to me at birth. And I

11:25

got pushback from her father,

11:30

and they're like, You did this?

11:30

You did this. And she is a she.

11:37

And that's all there is to it.

11:37

And if she's identifying and

11:41

something else is they then that

11:41

is your fault. They're too young

11:45

to know what they're talking

11:45

about. And my response was,

11:48

nope, you can get on this

11:48

bandwagon, or we can leave you

11:51

behind. But

11:54

we're not playing this

11:54

game. So, you know, I'd love to

11:58

hear from you guys about your

11:58

experiences with if you were

12:02

told when the child was younger,

12:02

did you have that fear of, you

12:06

know, are there too young to

12:06

know, did you have partners that

12:08

push back because of their ages,

12:11

I pushed back. And it wasn't, this wasn't for

12:13

my child, or the first time

12:16

someone ever pointed out

12:16

something about my child, I was

12:19

like, at a Friday evening where

12:19

all the moms kind of gathered

12:23

and all the kids played in the

12:23

backyard. It's all the moms are

12:25

kind of hanging out in the back

12:25

deck. And it's getting close to

12:28

summer. And so we're out late

12:28

that evening. And one of my

12:31

friends turns and looks at me

12:31

looks at my trans child who was

12:35

not at the time and goes, that

12:35

child is going to be gay. And I

12:39

was like, oh, hell, no, they're

12:39

not. Not in my house. Because I

12:44

was still very stuck in my

12:44

religion, and also very stuck in

12:47

my politics, and was very stuck

12:47

in that what my family had

12:51

raised what was right and wrong.

12:51

And I had been taught that that

12:54

was devil, that was Satan. That

12:54

was completely not something we

13:02

could go near, not to touch, not

13:02

to talk about, stay the hell

13:05

away from it. And so what we had

13:05

unpacked all that stuff, a good

13:11

five, six years before my kids

13:11

started to come out. So my kid

13:15

came out as like a junior in

13:15

high school. It was a gender

13:20

asexual. I don't really know.

13:20

But that's where I think I'm at.

13:24

I'm like, okay, whatever. And

13:24

part of that was, I had been in

13:28

a really bad marriage that had

13:28

boxed me in molded me into

13:32

something I wasn't. And the more

13:32

that he said, You can't do this.

13:35

You can't do that. You can't be

13:35

this. This isn't who you are.

13:38

When I left that marriage, I had

13:38

to unpack all that. Because I

13:41

had looked in the mirror and said, I don't know who the hell I am. So when my kid came to me,

13:43

I went, Oh, I did the same thing

13:47

my ex just did to my kid. Box.

13:47

Gone. I'm done. Burn it. You are

13:54

who you are. And I have never

13:54

pushed back and said, No, you

13:57

aren't. I think when he came out

13:57

as trans as said that was a like

14:03

the end of his freshman year in

14:03

college. And he was kind of he

14:06

emailed me and he was struggling

14:06

because at the time, he was

14:09

living in a dorm of the opposite

14:09

sex. He was having to shower and

14:13

all these things with like a

14:13

constant, a constant, just mind

14:17

barrier, a mind block, just

14:17

really messing with him. And he

14:20

was like, I'm, I'm not, I'm

14:20

okay. But I'm not going to be

14:25

your best day. And I was like,

14:25

quit, I don't care come home. I

14:29

college is not worth that. It's

14:29

not worth that. And so he came

14:32

home and it was kind of like,

14:32

and I did kind of go, are you

14:36

sure? And it was that fear that

14:36

deed he's talking about? Because

14:39

the first thing I thought about

14:39

was, and we're not like this

14:41

wasn't this year where we got

14:41

570 legislations against our

14:46

kids, but we were starting to

14:46

get that ramp up. And you were

14:49

starting to get this pushback

14:49

against the trans community. So

14:52

my first thought was, No, like

14:52

they're going to be after you

14:56

and we want better for our kids,

14:56

but we want them not to have

15:00

have to struggle as hard. We

15:00

want things easier for them. We

15:02

want them to be loved, we want

15:02

them to be accepted. And here

15:05

was my kid coming to me with the

15:05

hardest thing that he's going to

15:08

have to be accepted for the

15:08

other people I know are going to

15:12

judge me for, whether it's

15:12

workplace, whether it's for

15:15

loan, whether it's for changing

15:15

his ID, what bathroom, he goes

15:20

into, he's going to be judged.

15:20

And that fear of oh my gosh, I

15:24

don't want this on my kid. And I

15:24

sat with that for about two

15:28

days. And I was like, You know

15:28

what, that is your projection.

15:32

You are projecting your fear on

15:32

to your kid, your kid came to

15:36

you instead, this is who I am.

15:36

Your only job is to support it

15:39

and accept it. That's it. That's

15:39

it. And the only other

15:43

difference that I've had with

15:43

that I had one person who told

15:45

me that their college child came

15:45

to them at two and a half. And I

15:49

never had that experience. Now

15:49

my kid was a pure tomboy, pure

15:53

tomboy dress like a boy acted

15:53

like a boy never played with

15:56

girls. No dolls, no Barbies,

15:56

nothing. Always male, I should

16:01

have known. And when he did come

16:01

out, it was like, oh, okay,

16:03

whatever. Because he's always

16:03

been like, really, but this

16:07

child had come out at two and a

16:07

half. It was the first time I

16:10

ever heard of this kind of

16:10

scenario, but the father of the

16:13

child to come out to the mother

16:13

and said, Why did you make me a

16:15

boy? I'm gonna girl at two and a

16:15

half. And I do believe

16:22

psychologically, we talk about

16:22

their kids, we have kind of come

16:25

up with this by the late by the

16:25

age of four or five. And I truly

16:29

believe that my son when he was

16:29

playing with his, with his cars,

16:33

and his trucks, and his GI Joe,

16:33

man of his younger brother, he

16:38

was telling me who he was, I

16:38

just wasn't paying attention.

16:42

They kind of lean into

16:42

that identity. Subconsciously,

16:46

my son wore blue all the time.

16:46

He had his hair short all the

16:50

time. He wasn't a doll person.

16:50

Like I had all the same signs.

16:55

I was buzzing his head.

16:55

Just buzzing and it was like,

16:59

oh, oh, okay. All right,

16:59

whatever. That was middle

17:05

school.

17:07

I think whenever I hear

17:07

that argument, I tend to ask

17:09

people, well, how old were you?

17:09

When you knew what gender you

17:15

are? And I love and then unpack

17:15

that. Well, how did you know?

17:21

Did you know? Because that's

17:21

what someone told you. Did? You

17:24

know, because you'd gone through

17:24

that, you know, that adolescent

17:28

development time of boys have a

17:28

penis and girls have a vagina.

17:31

And so you go, Well, I have a

17:31

vagina. So I must be, you know,

17:35

what? How did you? How did you

17:35

really know? And whenever you

17:40

start thinking body parts, well,

17:40

what if that was gone? Like,

17:45

what if something happened to

17:45

that body part? Would you still

17:49

know who you are? What if one of

17:49

all of your extremities were

17:55

blown off? Except like your head

17:55

and your torso? Would you still

17:58

know who you are? And you know,

17:58

generally the answer is yeah, I

18:04

you know, I think that whenever

18:04

we hear about, oh my gosh, for

18:07

all these little kids, there's

18:07

this idea that we're all running

18:10

them to the clinic, and throwing

18:10

them on hormones and hormone

18:13

blockers and chopping off their

18:13

body parts. And that's not

18:16

what's happening. It just giving

18:16

them that space to play with the

18:20

trucks that they want to play with the trucks play with all play with it all. Wear the

18:22

dress, if you want to play with it, wear a dress, there are

18:23

plenty of cisgender girls who

18:27

grew up being very tomboyish

18:27

there are plenty of cisgender

18:31

men, I know of some who like to

18:31

wear long flowy skirts and even

18:36

like stockings, and they will

18:36

tell you, I'm not trying I know

18:40

I'm not trans, but I enjoy

18:40

wearing this. So we've, you

18:44

know, just breaking down that

18:44

idea and going, if we can just

18:46

take a step back and our child

18:46

comes to us and says this and we

18:49

can go, okay, you know, let's,

18:49

let's keep it moving. And we

18:54

just don't freak out. I'm not

18:54

saying hold out hope that

18:57

they'll change their mind. I am

18:57

saying if you'll if you'll

19:01

loosen that grip and that and

19:01

sit in that feminine and not

19:04

have that fear. Start following

19:04

trans creators start listening

19:08

to trans voices. You're going to

19:08

wish you can chill about it.

19:13

Your kid is going to go through

19:13

that identity time they're going

19:16

to figure out who they are. And

19:16

ultimately, is it going to

19:20

matter? Are you going to love

19:20

them and support them and be

19:23

there no matter what and if the

19:23

answer's yes, just take a

19:26

breath. It's usually it's a

19:26

social transition at first you

19:29

to play with pronouns and

19:29

playing with names and play with

19:32

clothes. You don't have to get

19:32

caught up in hormones and

19:35

surgeries and name changes and

19:35

gender markers. You don't have

19:38

to do that yet. You have all

19:38

this time to just show your kid

19:41

Hey, whoever you are, and

19:41

whatever you I love you. I'm

19:44

here for you. And it's gonna

19:44

figure itself out.

19:47

How many of us really knew

19:47

who we were anyway?

19:51

Oh god, I

19:51

still don't I'm still

19:53

trying to figure out um,

19:53

um, because Amber if it wasn't

19:59

you You I apologize, but Amber

19:59

said she had a really rough

20:02

relationship. Marriage. Okay, so

20:02

did I very religious. Honestly,

20:09

I'm my mother was an extremely

20:09

controlling woman. My ex husband

20:14

is extremely controlling man.

20:14

And so I didn't know the

20:18

difference until I got divorced.

20:18

And the first thing when I told

20:22

him that my niece had come out,

20:22

he was like, Oh, I'll still love

20:26

Maggie blah, blah, blah. And I'm

20:26

like, and I talked, Maggie. And

20:29

I said, How long has it been?

20:29

Since you've talked to? You

20:32

know, your ex uncle? Pops

20:32

funeral? My dad passed away.

20:39

Three years ago, four years now?

20:39

Yeah, three years ago, he passed

20:42

away in 2020. And I said, okay,

20:42

yeah. And I said, did he even

20:46

talk to you? He goes, he gave me

20:46

a hug, you know, she goes, Can

20:49

you give me a hug? And that was

20:49

it. I was like, Okay. It he

20:52

still has that. He won't accept

20:52

anything. He's very unaccepting.

20:57

And I just I cringe, if one of

20:57

our kids had discovered and

21:03

said, Hey, I'm not who you say I

21:03

am. I am, this is who I am. He

21:08

wouldn't have he wouldn't have

21:08

accepted it. Whereas I would

21:10

have been okay, let's go. Okay,

21:10

what do you need a train, figure

21:13

this out? And I'm sure I will,

21:13

because I even fear for Maddie,

21:17

you know, especially when she

21:17

was in Texas. But it all comes

21:24

down to I want to ask some of

21:24

these ignorant people, do you

21:28

really know who you are? You Do

21:28

you know who you are? Or are you

21:32

still allowing society to

21:32

influence you

21:35

and just apply to trans

21:35

kids? I mean, that applies to

21:38

every part of your life.

21:39

Exactly. But I mean, I'm

21:39

still discovering who I am. So

21:44

you know how, like Jenny said,

21:44

Let them go through everything,

21:50

let them let it sink into them

21:50

and help them navigate it, it's

21:56

going to help you navigate it too.

21:58

And I guarantee, if it's

21:58

not in VR, they're gonna,

22:01

they're gonna fluctuate, they're gonna change, I have a girlfriend, but at one point,

22:03

was really trying out, they them

22:06

pronouns. And later on, she was

22:06

like, you know, I just found it

22:09

wasn't right for me. And you

22:09

know, you don't, you can't know

22:13

what's going to happen. But what

22:13

you can know is that if you do

22:18

handle it wrong, things can go

22:18

really, really bad. You're

22:21

talking about serious risks that

22:21

can happen in your relationship.

22:26

We lost a young man, last year,

22:26

one of my daughter's classmates,

22:31

when he was 14 years old, 15

22:31

years old, one or the other, is

22:36

that I don't want to say that,

22:36

that our kids should be

22:39

hijacking us, or emotionally

22:39

blackmailing us with, well, if

22:43

you don't do what I want, I'm

22:43

going to do this thing. But

22:46

that's not what's going on.

22:46

That's not what these kids are

22:49

doing. They are suffering

22:49

tremendously when they share

22:54

this very serious and in special

22:54

thing about themselves that they

22:59

want to share with the people

22:59

who are supposed to love and

23:01

support and comfort and value

23:01

and celebrate them. My God,

23:04

celebrate. And if you can't

23:04

celebrate yet, I get it. We all

23:08

get it all three of us moms get

23:08

it. But you can at least start

23:13

with some love, some compassion,

23:13

and openness with your kid, so

23:18

that you're not burying now.

23:19

I'm so moved by what

23:19

Jenny said. I remember I used to

23:23

say that my child came out later

23:23

in life, because that's what it

23:27

felt like to me. Even though

23:27

sharing with me that he's

23:31

transgender was this, I call it

23:31

the second coming out on Second

23:34

Coming. Because at 10, he shared

23:34

that he was bisexual. And the

23:42

ironic thing is, that was so

23:42

much more palatable. And that

23:46

that's definitely me and

23:46

society, and my societal

23:50

thoughts. But when later on, you

23:50

know, when he came out five

23:54

years later, when he shared that

23:54

he was transgender, five years

23:58

later, and we were writing like

23:58

the college essays and stuff. He

24:03

knew at four, he was just so

24:03

good at hiding it, for the sake

24:09

of me, for the sake of my

24:09

church, for the sake of my

24:12

family, for the sake of his

24:12

other parent, you know, that

24:17

even though he knew he knew, and

24:17

so it felt like he was coming

24:20

out later, but he knew, so I

24:20

don't think there he knew

24:23

something new. Something was

24:23

amiss. So I'll just say he knew

24:27

that much. And, and I didn't,

24:27

because I had all the pink

24:31

clothes. So of course I did. I

24:31

was clueless. So I don't think

24:36

there is a too young for your

24:36

identity and knowing who you

24:40

are. And I guess the other side

24:40

of it. I mean, there's nothing

24:43

too old for your identity and

24:43

not knowing who you are.

24:49

Oh, I feel like these are

24:49

also very true. My my son's

24:54

journey was was quite the it was

24:54

quite the rocky road for him,

24:59

you know, and without, without

24:59

two supportive parents, you

25:04

know, my husband was supporting

25:04

him just kind of like

25:09

emotionally. And so he's got

25:09

multiple parents, and not just

25:14

like your standard two, he's got

25:14

multiple parents. And I truly

25:18

believe the love and the support

25:18

from from at least two figures

25:23

was what made him comfortable

25:23

enough to live in the skin that

25:27

he lives in today. Like he will

25:27

wear baggy jeans work on on

25:33

cars, like all of your typical

25:33

boy things, but we'll walk down

25:38

a Walmart aisle or some other

25:38

toy store, and he'll be like,

25:42

Why are these separated by

25:42

gender? I'm like, I have no

25:45

idea. And he's like, they need

25:45

to fix that. I'm like, No, it's

25:50

just like,

25:52

flat target got for doing

25:52

that?

25:55

They still do. You felt

25:55

like

25:58

they had to go back doing it?

26:01

So yeah, it's it's, it's,

26:01

they're, they're a pleasure. So

26:09

the next question I have up is,

26:09

could this be a face and I

26:12

believe Jenny, you touched on

26:12

this a little bit. But I know

26:16

I've heard this one before,

26:16

specifically from my child's

26:20

parents as well, other parent

26:20

is, oh, this is just a phase,

26:26

you know, they'll grow through

26:26

it, they'll grow out of it,

26:29

they'll come to their senses.

26:29

And that was something I should

26:34

probably preface this by saying

26:34

he's a much better parent now.

26:37

Because he's had four years of a

26:37

trans child, and he has come

26:42

361, he's got one ad on this,

26:42

and he is very supportive. But

26:47

you know, when my son first came

26:47

out, it was this is just a phase

26:51

like this is that I don't need

26:51

to do anything, I don't need to

26:55

change any of my ways. Because,

26:55

you know, tomorrow, they'll wake

26:58

up and there'll be a unicorn. So

26:58

I'd love to hear your

27:03

experiences on this.

27:05

It was the number one

27:05

question I think I got, well,

27:08

what if he changes his mind?

27:08

What if this is a phase? He was

27:13

hanging out with a lot of LGBTQ

27:13

plus, folks. And then it was

27:17

well, it's just trendy. He's

27:17

hanging around all these people,

27:19

and he's picking up the stuff

27:19

from them? Well, I think, first

27:23

of all, we all go through

27:23

phases. And that makes us who we

27:29

are, you know, my craft, I've

27:29

had a crafting phase and a

27:31

furniture refinishing phase and

27:31

a, an angry atheist phase. I

27:36

mean, I've had lots of phases in

27:36

my life, that I needed to go

27:40

through in order to know myself

27:40

better in order to end up where

27:42

I am. So you know, I mean, I

27:42

don't know what that means. Is

27:46

it a phase? I think you know who

27:46

you are. But as far as like,

27:49

well, what if there's this, what

27:49

if it changes, I just don't see

27:54

that. And one of the one of the

27:54

first things I did, I already

27:57

had trans trans friends, I

27:57

already had people in the, you

28:00

know, friends and family and the

28:00

queer community, I'm a queer

28:02

person, myself. But I still

28:02

immediately I didn't know

28:06

enough. So I immediately started

28:06

following trans creators, I

28:10

started listening to trans

28:10

voices first thing, and it was

28:13

just overwhelmingly know that we

28:13

don't change our minds. This is

28:18

not a vase, this is who we are.

28:18

And by the time we've come out,

28:20

like, it's been a, it's been a

28:20

whole process to even come out

28:24

and share that with somebody.

28:24

And we don't want nobody wants

28:27

to be told, Well, you're just

28:27

going through a phase, you know,

28:29

and, and even if he is, this is

28:29

who he is right now. And I need

28:32

to deal with who he is right

28:32

now. And who he is right now is

28:36

a trans boy. And he's wonderful,

28:36

and he's an artist, and he's

28:38

perfect, and nothing else

28:38

matters. But I think that if

28:41

you're if any parent is going

28:41

through that, I think that it

28:44

comes back to that fear that

28:44

we've all talked about that and

28:48

they're holding out that hope

28:48

that it's a face, because

28:51

they're still afraid. And when

28:51

you get rid of that fear, I

28:54

mean, just imagine someone

28:54

hoping that you turn out to be

28:58

different than who you are. Like

28:58

imagine right now someone you

29:02

know pee, you know, people get in relationships, and they're like, Well, I'm not, you know,

29:04

they're gonna change, I'm gonna

29:07

fix them. Well, then you don't

29:07

fully love them. Why are you

29:11

with someone that you're hoping

29:11

it's going to change? You know,

29:13

when it's our kids, definitely,

29:13

you know, we don't really have a

29:15

choice in who our kids are any more than we have a choice in who our parents are. But to say

29:17

that I'm holding out hope that

29:21

my kid changes who they are,

29:21

then I'm not valuing them in the

29:25

moment. I'm not honestly and

29:25

authentically loving them in the

29:27

moment. And it really just sends

29:27

the message to them, that they

29:32

aren't worthy of that until they

29:32

become the way I think that they

29:34

should be. And I just I don't

29:34

want that for my kid. You know,

29:38

I agree with Jenny. I

29:38

think it's just a form of

29:40

denial. from parents, even in my

29:40

well meanness. I remember

29:47

getting a therapist counselor

29:47

for my child, just to talk to so

29:53

it wouldn't just be me that he

29:53

felt comfortable talking to what

29:57

I cherry pick those therapists I

29:57

picked someone that was like my

30:00

grandmother, I picked someone

30:00

that would, you know, it was

30:06

just like, so if it if it if it

30:06

just happens to be, you know, a

30:11

phase, you know, maybe maybe

30:11

this person, this person is a

30:15

sea therapist for my child. And

30:15

it's not until I got to a point

30:20

where I was able to fully

30:20

embrace my child as he is, and

30:26

just see the gift and value of

30:26

my child. And I'm not saying I

30:30

didn't love my child, and very

30:30

much felt that I love my child.

30:35

But as soon as the blinders came

30:35

off, I said, Wait, we need a new

30:39

theory. You don't need grandma.

30:39

We need somebody who was part of

30:49

the queer community. And the

30:49

funny thing is, he loved grandma

30:52

there, you know, therapists, he,

30:52

you know, they were both

30:55

artistic. They both share like

30:55

personality characteristics. So

30:59

it wasn't like an ill fit. But

30:59

it wasn't. If this is who this

31:03

person is. And I know what he

31:03

faces. Why would I go pay

31:07

grandma to be his therapist, he

31:07

needs someone that's part of the

31:10

community. And I had to be the

31:10

one to say that. So I just think

31:13

it's denial. I think that

31:13

person, that parent is not fully

31:17

accepting of who their child is.

31:17

And I say that with love and

31:21

compassion, having been there

31:21

myself.

31:26

That was my mother. When

31:26

I came when my son came to me,

31:30

like it was that little pushback

31:30

of fear, but at the same time, I

31:33

was like, Okay, I completely

31:33

accept this. And I knew that I

31:38

came from a very religious

31:38

background. My stepdad has his

31:42

degree in seminary, as well as

31:42

as a math teacher. But he first

31:46

had a degree in seminary. And so

31:46

it was like they are high in the

31:49

praise and worship team. They

31:49

are pathetic, they pray and a

31:55

calling. You name it, they do it

31:55

speaking in tongues, all

32:00

underneath the purview. So when

32:00

I went over there to them, I

32:03

knew that my stepdad as that

32:03

teacher, just as Lisa, my

32:07

stepdad is, like, he's always

32:07

the safe space, everybody knows

32:11

that there might not be another

32:11

teacher they can go to, but they

32:14

can go to him. And he still goes

32:14

to their weddings and their baby

32:18

showers and you name it, he

32:18

still does that he's the parent

32:22

for these kids. And especially

32:22

usually it's for Ben, but like

32:25

if they don't have a father

32:25

figure he steps in. And so if he

32:29

ever has a student that he's

32:29

like, this summer, he's like, I

32:32

got a new kid and I I ever I

32:32

don't know, I don't I, I don't

32:37

want to insult them. And I don't

32:37

know if it's male, I don't know

32:40

if it's female, the name, I

32:40

can't tell when I was just like,

32:43

don't ask them in the classroom,

32:43

hold them outside, and just say,

32:47

Look, I don't want to be

32:47

disrespectful. I don't want to

32:49

be offensive. But I want to make

32:49

sure that I respect you. What

32:52

are your pronouns, so I call you

32:52

correctly in classroom. And I

32:55

was like, if you come at it with

32:55

that, and you come out in a

32:58

private setting where you've not

32:58

ostracize them in front of your

33:01

classroom, you've made them feel

33:01

special that you are trying to

33:05

acknowledge exactly who they

33:05

are. And hopefully they're going

33:08

to be receptive of that. My

33:08

mother on the other hand, so my

33:12

stepdad was like, okay, he got

33:12

it. Good. Let's throw my mother.

33:18

Hello. Hell no, no, not my

33:18

grandson, actually, not my

33:25

granddaughter. Nope. And my son

33:25

was struggling with the fact

33:32

that at the time, he was like,

33:32

19. And we are very blessed up

33:37

top. And that was huge for him.

33:37

And my mother was like, I will

33:44

pay for breast reduction. And I

33:44

said, he doesn't want a breast

33:48

reduction. It wasn't gender

33:48

neutral chest, because that's

33:52

what makes me feel authentic.

33:52

That's how he feels. I will pay

33:57

for that. And so my son didn't

33:57

have that surgery. It's a my

34:01

mother a year to come around.

34:01

And one day she calls me she's

34:04

like, I've got something over

34:04

his house he can see. And my

34:07

mother and I do a lot of

34:07

gardening work outside and she

34:09

gone and gotten some gardening

34:09

gear. It's like a long sleeve

34:12

shirt and were outside. But it

34:12

was in the pink and blue colors,

34:16

equity inclusion, love all this

34:16

stuff on the sweatshirt. And

34:20

she's like, Do you think he'll

34:20

like it? I've got it for him. Do

34:25

you think you'll like it? And

34:25

I'm like, Yes, Mom. Yes, I'd

34:29

know. He will love it. And she's

34:29

been fine since then. In fact,

34:32

this week, she went to her

34:32

dental hygienist and she's like,

34:35

my daughter is starting this

34:35

podcast with some other moms of

34:38

trans kids. And, and bassant My

34:38

grandson, like all I'm here to

34:43

do is love him and support him.

34:43

That's my only job and you know

34:46

what everybody else can say

34:46

whatever they're gonna say, but

34:48

I love my grandkid. And my

34:48

mother comes home and says this

34:51

and I'm like, Who are you? What?

34:51

Really? Okay. All right. But we

35:00

can't we're not telling family

35:00

members, the rest of the family

35:03

because they are so honestly,

35:03

I'm from Magga. Republican, the

35:08

majority of them, and it's not

35:08

safe. It's been known for years

35:12

before he ever even knew who he

35:12

was. The homophobia the

35:15

transphobic, comments were being

35:15

said at Thanksgiving, and at

35:18

Christmas, they were already

35:18

telling you who they were and

35:21

what they liked and didn't like.

35:21

And so when my son came out, he

35:23

was like, I'm just not going

35:23

back down there. They're two

35:26

hours away. Why would I? Why do

35:26

I need to prove myself to people

35:31

who aren't going to accept me

35:31

anyway. And honestly, because we

35:36

saw them so little. And that was

35:36

the dynamic I had to get over

35:39

because I was this kid that was

35:39

entrenched in family and we went

35:42

over every single weekend. And

35:42

we were at church on Wednesday

35:44

nights. And we were at church on

35:44

Sundays, like I saw, like, I was

35:48

at all grandparents all weekend,

35:48

every single weekend. Like

35:51

that's what we did on Saturday, Sundays, two sets of grandparents on Sunday, two sets

35:53

of grandparents, like it was

35:56

constant family. And that is not

35:56

because we moved away, I don't

36:00

have that with my son. So for

36:00

him, he was just kind of like,

36:03

like, I can let that go. They're

36:03

not like something that's a

36:06

meshed with me. You are my

36:06

mother is my grandparent, yeah,

36:10

his grandparents are. But other

36:10

than that everybody else,

36:13

whatever. So it's not just the

36:13

parents. I mean, that was the

36:18

grandparents just my mother was

36:18

like, major, major pushback,

36:23

major pushback,

36:24

I don't think any of us

36:24

know or could have known how,

36:28

what, and I'm not here to try to

36:28

speak as if I am somehow more

36:32

oppressed than the trans

36:32

community, please hear me out.

36:35

But it you just don't realize

36:35

what it's going to do to your

36:38

relationships with other people.

36:38

And you don't realize that,

36:42

like, I didn't realize it was

36:42

going to kind of put me in a

36:44

closet of sorts, that all of a

36:44

sudden, there were going to be

36:47

places that I didn't feel like I

36:47

could talk openly about my kid,

36:50

that there were going to be

36:50

places where, you know, I have

36:52

this new job, and now I have to

36:52

use Facebook for my job. And I

36:55

had to go and I had to just grab

36:55

everything, because the people I

36:59

work with and the clientele are,

36:59

are not just not gonna get

37:05

they're not gonna get. And it

37:05

could, you know, there's always

37:08

that fear that it will impact my

37:08

job, you know, especially in

37:11

sales, as people buy from

37:11

people, you know, and so nobody

37:15

tells you that you're going to

37:15

have to navigate speaking with

37:18

people in your family, and that

37:18

it's going to cross your mind

37:21

that you're going to have to make decisions about whether or not to cut off certain family.

37:23

And that became a huge fear for

37:28

me, because my dad, just like

37:28

everything. But a couple years

37:33

before my son ever came out. My

37:33

dad had purchased this book, I

37:35

don't even want to say the

37:35

title. It's, it's transphobic.

37:38

It's definitely like anti trans

37:38

propaganda. And he had purchased

37:41

this book, and he would leave it

37:41

out on the countertop. And at

37:45

one point, he tried to bring it

37:45

to me and get me to read it. And

37:47

I looked, I took one look at the

37:47

cover. And I was like, I'm gonna

37:49

tell you right now, I'm not

37:49

gonna read that. And but my son

37:52

was watching this happen. And so

37:52

before he came out, my son said

37:56

to me, my son didn't worry about

37:56

his extra super Republican

37:59

father, the number one thing he

37:59

asked me was, Do you think that

38:03

this will impact my relationship

38:03

with Georgia, he was more

38:06

worried about his grandfather

38:06

and their relationships, and he

38:09

was about anything else. And it

38:09

just broke my heart. And I you

38:12

know, in that moment, you have

38:12

to admit that you have to have

38:16

this conversation with yourself

38:16

where you go, am I going to have

38:19

to cut my dad off? Like, am I

38:19

going to, you know, am I going

38:22

to have to do this, I was

38:22

terrified to tell my parents.

38:27

And how selfish you know, that I

38:27

was, I was worried about my

38:29

relationship with them. But

38:29

that's just something that

38:32

parents are trans kids go

38:32

through and I think we, we

38:34

should be able to talk openly

38:34

with it about it with each

38:37

other. And to help other parents

38:37

out with that. Yeah, it's

38:41

definitely a possibility. It's

38:41

some it's a it's a decision,

38:44

you're gonna have to kind of

38:44

come up with in your head, like,

38:46

what's going to happen in that

38:46

moment, when that moment comes?

38:48

What am I going to say? What am

38:48

I going to do? And it's, it's

38:51

difficult and it's scary.

38:54

Constant too. So it's not

38:54

just your first, I started a new

38:59

position, and I had to write up

38:59

a bio. And speaking frankly,

39:03

with the narrator with the, the

39:03

narrative writer, I share that

39:08

my son was transgender. And then

39:08

you know, me and my husband

39:12

reread it about what the reader

39:12

put on the website. I was like,

39:15

it is very dangerous for us to

39:15

put that out there to to put my

39:21

son out there that way. And

39:21

you're, you know, you're

39:26

constantly guarding against that

39:26

journey. And I feel you like it

39:31

is it is constant. I wish I

39:31

could say like happens once in

39:34

the new year like, No.

39:38

And it's gonna be forever,

39:38

like, whether it's your friends.

39:41

I mean, like I had friends, I

39:41

had friends in the LGBT

39:44

community who were by who but

39:44

one of them had a marriage where

39:48

she had the the girlfriend in

39:48

the bedroom and the husband and

39:52

the spare Ollie. And I like that

39:52

was my first and but it was like

39:59

a switch back and forth. She had

39:59

like the rainbow paw prints of

40:01

her arm. And then, and then the

40:01

pandemic happened. And she got

40:07

into church. And this woman who

40:07

used to be very supportive of

40:10

LGBT started coming out on

40:10

Facebook as very Catholic, that

40:15

she had never been as very

40:15

forceful and push back. But this

40:18

is a demonic trend. And I've

40:18

just sat there and thought, what

40:22

about your girlfriend for the

40:22

last 10 years that you had? So I

40:26

guess that was demonic for you.

40:26

So I suddenly felt like I can't

40:30

even tell you. Now this person

40:30

is the one that looked at me

40:34

when my kid was seven and says,

40:34

I think there'll be gay. But I

40:38

don't think I can even tell them

40:38

anymore. I don't feel safe. I

40:41

won't go to that person anymore.

40:41

I'm not hung out with that

40:44

person two or three years

40:44

because I don't know if my kid

40:48

is safe. If she's already

40:48

pushing back religion on me for

40:50

masks and COVID I can't imagine

40:50

that you're going to be okay, if

40:54

I come to you and say My kid is

40:54

trans. Like, not at all, and um,

40:59

yeah, boss, friend after friend.

40:59

What's going on with your

41:03

oldest, tell them drop off?

41:03

Nothing. I've got one that I

41:08

haven't heard in 18 months. The

41:08

second I told her drop gone,

41:12

best friend at 10 years

41:12

disappeared. She doesn't even

41:15

know how to talk to me about it.

41:15

And I don't even have friends

41:19

like my LinkedIn buddies are

41:19

down my buddies, because the

41:22

people around me it was just

41:22

like, and the other thing is, is

41:25

where I'm at is a very red

41:25

County. And so most of those

41:28

people again, that I was friends

41:28

with one of them lean red. And

41:32

I'm in a very dangerous County,

41:32

we do not support prod, you

41:36

can't get them to support prod

41:36

in this county. There are kids

41:39

that were killed in this county

41:39

because they were gay, much less

41:42

because they were trans. There

41:42

are people that call my kid out

41:45

in the store or you trans at the

41:45

checkout. And that store becomes

41:50

Nope, we're not going back in

41:50

there. No. And so it really you

41:55

become like, Where can I go?

41:55

Where's my kids say, is what

41:59

kids say freaking anywhere. And

41:59

when all the turmoil in news,

42:03

every politician, and every

42:03

pastor will say get in my kids

42:06

pants. And that's very telling. But I

42:07

want to I want to tag off on

42:10

what Jenny said about your son

42:10

and your relationship with your

42:15

dad, or stepdad. Judge ah, I

42:15

think it was when my niece came

42:20

out, my brother and sister in

42:20

law point blank told her you

42:24

will not tell pop. After my dad

42:24

passed, my mom passed away a

42:28

while ago, when after my dad

42:28

passed away, probably about a

42:32

year or so. She went and told

42:32

her gravestone. She went and had

42:38

a discussion with Papa and

42:38

grandma, at their gravestone, my

42:44

mom, I don't know how supportive

42:44

she would have been. But my dad

42:50

would have supported Maggie 100%

42:50

he would have been supportive.

42:56

And so it's and I don't get this

42:56

mindset. Like what Amber was

43:04

saying, I can't I mean, I, I'm

43:04

from Texas, so I know that red,

43:10

that diehard red politician and

43:10

in your face church, and those

43:17

statements are very telling

43:17

about our politicians.

43:23

You know, the when I

43:23

think of what you all are

43:26

saying, what I can say is to use

43:26

that for any parent that

43:31

struggles. I mean, if you think

43:31

about what you go through, and

43:35

you're thinking about your

43:35

relationships, and your

43:38

relationships being severed,

43:38

just know, it's 100 times worse

43:42

for your kid. And then just have

43:42

some empathy. I have, I've had a

43:47

few parents tell me that they

43:47

were so hurt or disappointed

43:52

when they found out their child

43:52

even thought about cutting off

43:56

ties with the family, or thought

43:56

about leaving, or thought

44:01

anything of the sort. And just

44:01

imagine that angst your child is

44:07

feeling knowing that at any

44:07

moment, these people who are

44:10

supposed to love them, could

44:10

reject them. You know, and

44:14

sometimes it's easier for them

44:14

to say let me leave, let me not

44:18

cause problems for people I care

44:18

about. I mean, like Jenny said,

44:23

these are still slave kids that

44:23

you love that you nurtured that

44:27

love you. And they want to have

44:27

that relationship with you, but

44:31

they are who they are. And so

44:31

that can't change. So you have

44:36

to think if this is you know

44:36

what I worry about? Well, I

44:40

worry about the relationship

44:40

with my mom. I worry about the

44:43

relationship with my grandma. I

44:43

worry about how Grandpa is going

44:46

to take it. Imagine what your

44:46

kids going through and just you

44:49

know, start from there. Like I

44:49

talked about the blinders

44:54

falling off for a year. I was

44:54

the only one that I wasn't the

44:58

only one my child Old was out

44:58

with me and out at school was

45:04

not out with the rest of my

45:04

family for about a year, that

45:07

day when the blinders, we fell

45:07

off. And that came from me, as

45:11

Jenny pointed out, getting in

45:11

trans spaces meeting trans

45:15

people, knowing this is who my

45:15

child is. That day I said, Man,

45:19

you know, we got to tell our

45:19

family, you know, and we had a

45:22

surprise coming out. We

45:22

pretended like I was gonna get

45:26

engaged. And what I told them is

45:26

that, you know, what, I don't

45:31

care what happens, it's gonna be

45:31

me and you, I don't care if they

45:35

turn away, I don't care, I don't

45:35

care. I want you to know, I'm

45:39

always going to love you, I'm

45:39

always going to support you. I

45:42

just want to leave that for

45:42

every parent, if you if you have

45:44

those worries, about your

45:44

family, your relations, imagine

45:49

how much worse it is for your

45:49

kid. They are who they are.

45:52

I absolutely agree with

45:52

you know, I was I I've so many

46:01

deep things. You know, I don't,

46:01

I'm not in contact with my

46:05

family. For a lot of reasons.

46:05

And so, my son didn't have that

46:11

decision to make like a lot of

46:11

you do. For him. It was friends.

46:16

It was his, you know, biological

46:16

father. Those were the people

46:22

that he was afraid of losing. We

46:22

he is in contact with his

46:27

biological father's mother, so

46:27

his grandmother on his father's

46:31

side, and we didn't tell them

46:31

for a few months, and that, you

46:37

know, Thanksgiving was coming

46:37

up. And the the grandmother

46:41

always comes over for

46:41

Thanksgiving. And they're like,

46:44

I'm going to tell them, I'd

46:44

prefer to be called de them. And

46:49

we said no problem. We told them

46:49

grandmother came over. It took

46:56

two Thanksgivings for

46:56

grandmother to come over to the

46:58

day them side, but when they

46:58

did, you know, they now just

47:03

kind of don't talk about it. And

47:03

you know, we know that's the

47:07

best that they can do. You know,

47:07

they're just very stuck in their

47:11

ways. And the best they can do

47:11

is just kind of not talk about

47:16

it, but they don't do the

47:16

reinforcing of the feminine

47:19

gender that they used to. So you

47:19

know, no pink shirts. No, she

47:24

the they call them V them. And

47:24

when we did a transition from

47:29

you know, a V them into a heat

47:29

pronoun, they transitioned right

47:34

along with us like it. Sometimes

47:34

they don't go full supportive.

47:40

Sometimes they you know, you

47:40

have family members who this is

47:44

as far as they can take it. But

47:44

just the fact that they are

47:48

willing to make that move. My

47:48

son was willing to meet them

47:53

halfway and say, Look, I know

47:53

this is hard for you. How can we

47:59

work this through and they've

47:59

slowly rebuilt their

48:01

relationship over the years, but

48:01

it wasn't easy. Grandma was

48:05

like, nope, grandma's like, no,

48:05

no. And you know, they don't go

48:11

to their grandmother's house

48:11

because their friends are like,

48:16

that's a girl. And my son's

48:16

like, I'm not going to correct

48:20

them because they're grandma's

48:20

friends. But grandma's coming

48:24

out the woodwork like they

48:24

prefer they. Like, I'll take it,

48:30

I will take this small move. And

48:30

so you know, kids are super

48:35

flexible, and they're really

48:35

understanding. And I find that

48:40

so many times it is harder for

48:40

the adults to make that

48:45

transition than it is for the

48:45

kids. Oh, yeah. And it's like,

48:49

Well, why is this 10 year old

48:49

being way more mature than I

48:55

started? My I have a 10

48:55

year old stepdaughter. Let me

48:58

what she picked up on it right

48:58

away. Oh, I have a brother now.

49:00

His name is this. Okay. I mean,

49:00

like it was nothing. Yeah. Like

49:06

it was

49:07

this hate is taught and

49:07

learned. Whereas love is innate.

49:11

And I fully believe that. Yeah,

49:11

fully do because I mean, stop

49:16

and think what is what what's

49:16

one of the sayings that

49:19

everybody says the out of the

49:19

mouths of babes and the wisdom.

49:25

I mean, it's amazing. So kudos

49:25

to your daughter,

49:28

your stuff. I mean, she's

49:28

outstanding. And let me tell you

49:32

what, she's she comes from a

49:32

deeply religious household. And,

49:35

you know, whenever my son had

49:35

first come out as gay, the her

49:40

parent, reached out to my

49:40

husband and said, I hear you

49:43

have an openly gay child in your

49:43

home. And he was like we should

49:46

do. Take it or leave it. I think

49:46

we've kind of got me thinking

49:52

about the since we're talking

49:52

about pronouns. I've heard my

49:57

dad kind of repeat this and I've

49:57

heard It kind of out media and

50:01

I've heard from other people. So

50:01

I want to address it real quick.

50:05

There's this idea or this, you

50:05

know, concept concept. I don't

50:08

know what I'm trying to say

50:08

right now edit this out. There's

50:12

this idea that everybody's

50:12

trying to criminalize you if you

50:16

miss gender, someone, and I

50:16

think people need to understand

50:19

nobody, I slip all the time, my

50:19

boyfriend or my boyfriend, my

50:23

son has a partner who uses they

50:23

them pronouns. And why. I mean,

50:28

why I've known this for three

50:28

years, and yet I still

50:31

occasionally will slip up. It's

50:31

an immediate Oh, sorry about

50:33

that, my bad, and keep it movin.

50:33

Nobody is trying to arrest you

50:38

for that. But whenever you are

50:38

misgendering someone mentally in

50:42

a way that is abusive, it is an

50:42

act of abuse is an act it is

50:48

just to let them know that you

50:48

do this is what you think, you

50:51

know, that's what what we're

50:51

talking about. You shouldn't be

50:54

able to intentionally attack

50:54

harass somebody by calling them

50:58

an incorrect gender, or a dead

50:58

name. That's what we want to

51:01

stand up against. Not people

51:01

making mistakes. Not even people

51:05

disagreeing with it, disagree

51:05

with it, if you want. But if I

51:08

disagree with who you are, I

51:08

don't get to just call you a

51:12

different name, or a different

51:12

pronoun. Just because I feel

51:16

like being ugly.

51:17

We had that as an episode

51:17

because our guest speaker got

51:22

into an accident right before.

51:22

And so Vanessa, and I had an

51:26

episode about you know,

51:26

pronouns. I try very hard. And

51:32

she goes, I even screw up. And

51:32

sometimes I screw up on my own

51:35

pronouns, you know. And so it it

51:35

is, but it's that intentional,

51:39

cruel. Just disrespect that

51:39

that's when it goes too far. But

51:48

like you said, if it's an Oops,

51:48

my bad. Yeah, I have no problem

51:53

with that. My my niece, just

51:53

within the past two years change

51:57

today, though. And so that's,

51:57

you know, I've known her since

52:00

like I said, she was 30 minutes

52:00

old. And I'm like, okay, you

52:04

know, I'm gonna screw up and she

52:04

sounds okay. But she's like,

52:07

it's no big deal. But because,

52:07

you know, she knows I'm not

52:11

doing it to be cruel. And I

52:11

think I think, Jenny, you're

52:17

right on, you know, and the one

52:17

of the other things Vanessa, and

52:20

I talked about was, if you don't

52:20

know, and you can't be nice and

52:23

go ask, Hey, in that quiet spot,

52:23

Hey, what are your pronouns? Go?

52:31

I always say, y'all, I'm from

52:31

the south. I say, all right.

52:35

It's all over. You know, it covers everything.

52:37

You all y'all it works.

52:39

That's right. So it

52:43

depends too. Like, I've

52:43

got a friend who was in the

52:46

healthcare industry. And a lot

52:46

of mom's stuff that I talked

52:49

about goes back to health care

52:49

about health care access. And so

52:53

I had a friend who is a

52:53

transgender male who had gone in

52:56

the hospital had like a routine

52:56

surgery and had to stay

52:58

overnight. But the problem was

52:58

that this spectrum of

53:03

experiences from one

53:03

professional to another

53:06

professional of how they treated

53:06

them was the issue. So every

53:10

time someone new came in the

53:10

room, Hi, this is my name, I go

53:14

by he him pronouns. So you'd

53:14

have the nurse that would come

53:17

in and go, I'm going to

53:17

absolutely do my best to try and

53:19

do that. But you're my first transgender patient, and I apologize ahead of time. And he

53:21

was like, that's absolutely

53:24

okay. Right. The next one comes

53:24

in, can I talk to you, I have a

53:30

child that I'm worried about

53:30

that maybe transgender and I

53:33

don't feel safe to talk to any

53:33

of my colleagues here in the

53:35

hospital. And this person was

53:35

like, You know what, and I had

53:39

sympathy for that. And so as I

53:39

spoke with them, the next nurse

53:42

came in and said, No, that's not

53:42

what's in the chart. And that's

53:45

not what I'm going to call you.

53:45

But that's not your name. That's

53:48

not your pronouns, that is

53:48

cruelty. That is cruelty. And

53:52

it's a denial of your health

53:52

care rights. Because you are,

53:57

you do not have to change your

53:57

ID, you do not have to change

53:59

your birth certificate, you do not have to show that for somebody to show you respect,

54:01

especially in a health care or

54:04

in a hospital setting. Or a

54:04

doctor's office like that is

54:08

pure baloney. So anybody

54:08

watching this, let me just tell

54:11

you, they can't do that to you.

54:11

It's a violation of your rights,

54:15

complete violation.

54:16

And if you're thinking of doing that you're likely to trigger a very protective

54:18

parents. So good luck.

54:21

Watch out. Yep. Yep. That

54:21

one mean the doctor who's

54:26

training the new doctors, well,

54:26

what if I don't agree with that

54:30

you better find a new job. I

54:30

love that. That is one of my

54:32

favorites.

54:34

That is kind of my my

54:34

opinion on anybody in healthcare

54:37

right now that if you have a

54:37

problem, addressing that

54:40

patient, that how they want to

54:40

be addressed, you don't you

54:43

should not be in healthcare

54:43

because all of your biases,

54:46

political beliefs, religion, I

54:46

don't care what they are.

54:49

Alright, the door. Your job in

54:49

the healthcare field is to do

54:53

your job at the best standards

54:53

for your patient, regardless of

54:57

who they are or how they do

54:57

Annaba

55:01

Hippocratic Oath covers

55:01

everybody. Right? I mean, before

55:07

pronouns were a, I guess,

55:07

saying, so to speak. I, you

55:12

know, I asked kids, especially

55:12

if, if, especially if I knew

55:17

their background because they

55:17

were open with me, you know,

55:20

okay. And even your kids that

55:20

had the names that okay, I'm not

55:24

sure how to pronounce this. Tell

55:24

me tell me what your mom, you

55:27

know, tell me how to pronounce

55:27

your name. Do you have a

55:29

nickname that you'd rather go

55:29

by? And that always established

55:34

that rapport with the kids

55:34

because Oh, hey, you know,

55:38

she's, she's different. And now,

55:38

if I was still in education,

55:42

which I'm not, thanks to COVID

55:42

because I just decided after

55:46

that my daughter graduated, I'm

55:46

done. But even now, I would be

55:51

okay. On a, like a

55:51

questionnaire. Tell me what your

55:56

pronouns are. Because I want to

55:56

respect you. And everything. I

56:00

mean, I don't even I never even

56:00

went by my full name on campus.

56:03

Everybody called me Max, as a

56:03

shorten for my last name. And I

56:08

still answer to it, you know,

56:08

but I think it has to go back

56:12

with respect. Just have the

56:12

person you know, don't respect

56:19

society. Stick the person. I'll

56:19

get off my soapbox.

56:24

That was a great soapbox.

56:27

So, you know, I think

56:27

we've covered this one before.

56:29

And I think we're kind of all on

56:29

agreement for the next question,

56:32

which is, should I just follow

56:32

my child's lead? I think we can

56:36

all agree the answer's yes. No,

56:36

no kind of specifics needed

56:40

here. Yeah, just follow your

56:40

kid. They know what they need.

56:43

And you're just, you're there to

56:43

be their support pillar.

56:47

I can't I was smarter

56:47

than me. Like, I mean, and

56:50

honestly, he is like, I was

56:50

academically gifted. My husband

56:53

was academically gifted. And by

56:53

the time he was probably 11, or

56:57

12, my dad was like this, like

56:57

when he spoke to you, you got

57:00

about 60 70% of it. And the

57:00

other 30 was like flying over

57:03

your head, you're grasping at

57:03

pieces of it. And that was my

57:06

kid, like 11. So at like, 1011.

57:06

I'm like, pretending that I know

57:10

what the hell I'm talking about

57:10

to him. So that he doesn't think

57:13

like, oh, now I'm smarter than

57:13

mom. Because don't let them

57:16

think that Good grief. But at

57:16

the same time, like, so here, I

57:20

had these horrible political

57:20

beliefs. Right. I was closed

57:25

off, closed minded, narrow

57:25

minded, a bigot, a racist. And

57:32

my kid was like, Is this what

57:32

you really want to be? Like,

57:37

every time no matter what it

57:37

was? Your religion really says

57:40

that this is okay. Your politics

57:40

is this is okay. This is this is

57:44

okay. Like my kid held up every

57:44

night. Check yourself, check

57:48

yourself. Check yourself. That's

57:48

honestly what my kid did. My

57:50

care. Okay, so this kid came in

57:50

so fast. I delivered so fast. I

57:54

broke my tailbone. Right? Like

57:54

my delivery was less than a push

57:59

less than 13 minutes with my

57:59

kid. And the cord was wrapped

58:03

around his neck and they were

58:03

like, you have gotten a push

58:05

like de Selva, right? You got 60

58:05

seconds to get them out was in

58:08

the military hospital. The guy

58:08

looks at me says I'm a field

58:11

surgeon. You got 60 seconds, or

58:11

I'm splitting you right here, no

58:14

anesthetic to get that baby out.

58:14

And I'm like, whoosh, so that

58:19

kid came out. But when that kid

58:19

came out, for wrapping around

58:23

the throat, right, but at the

58:23

same time, it was like, I'm so

58:27

grateful that I get this

58:27

opportunity to have this kid and

58:31

this experience. So why would

58:31

you? Why would you start putting

58:34

anything on that? Take it away.

58:34

Um, and that's what I had done.

58:39

So he coming out, he broke my

58:39

tailbone. And so later in life,

58:45

and I still think he was even

58:45

beginning to come out. This was

58:47

just when he was getting smarter

58:47

than me. But he made this

58:50

comment. And he was like, you

58:50

know, you should have figured

58:52

out that I was gonna be a pain

58:52

in your ass when I broke your

58:54

tailbone coming out. And I was

58:54

like, wow. So I say all the time

59:02

like that son. That son made me

59:02

the best person that I am today,

59:09

because I had to check all this

59:09

other crap. That was ugly about

59:12

myself. And my kids taught me so

59:12

damn much. Let your kid lead the

59:17

way. Let your kid lead the way.

59:17

But a lot

59:21

of parents are really

59:21

scared of that. They really feel

59:23

like well, then my kids in

59:23

charge. And I'm the adult and

59:27

I'm supposed to be in charge.

59:27

And you know, we definitely

59:30

generations before us. There's

59:30

always been this power struggle.

59:35

And be really power struggle

59:35

with the kids. Sometimes I'm

59:37

like, do you know that you can

59:37

ask them to do things in a kind

59:40

voice? Even if they don't do it

59:40

right away? You can always be

59:44

you can always be kind. You can

59:44

always be like, Dude, I see you

59:47

still sitting there on your butt

59:47

get up and do what I asked. We

59:49

don't have to get aggressive.

59:49

But there is this fear with a

59:53

lot of parents that are we just

59:53

gonna let our children run

59:56

everything. They're 13 years

59:56

old. They don't have any life

59:58

experience. They don't know

59:58

anything. it, and hey, I'm on

1:00:01

board with that.

1:00:02

I get it. I don't

1:00:03

let my kids decide what they're going to eat for dinner when they're six. I don't let

1:00:05

them decide, you know, always

1:00:08

what they're going to wear when they're six, you know, it's snowing outside, you know, but

1:00:10

snow boots on. But I can trust

1:00:14

them whenever it comes to

1:00:14

themselves. And we can learn a

1:00:17

lot from our kids. We can't get

1:00:17

into this right? Well, we become

1:00:20

those crotchety old people that

1:00:20

are just Well, now, I'm back in

1:00:24

my day, this is how we did it.

1:00:24

Our kids have a lot to teach us.

1:00:28

They have a lot to teach us

1:00:28

about getting back to that place

1:00:31

that we used to be into where we

1:00:31

were creative. And we weren't

1:00:35

confined and bogged down by the

1:00:35

crap of the world. And we felt

1:00:39

free spirited. Our kids can

1:00:39

bring us back to that moment of

1:00:43

remembering what it's like to

1:00:43

just be fun and young and

1:00:46

compassionate, and caring and

1:00:46

funny. You know, we can get back

1:00:50

to that with our kids. I don't

1:00:50

know if it's necessarily like,

1:00:53

just let the kids do whatever.

1:00:53

And we just okay, you know,

1:00:56

there's always the argument, well, no, tomorrow, they're going to decide they want to be

1:00:58

a giraffe. Okay, who her but

1:01:02

just letting our kids express

1:01:02

who they are and know who they

1:01:05

are. And kind of following their

1:01:05

lead on this. It's the it's not

1:01:09

bad, they're not going to drive

1:01:09

at 12 years old, and I'm drive

1:01:12

themselves to the clinic and

1:01:12

start chopping off body parts

1:01:15

and taking medication, you know,

1:01:15

get a grip. We're all here.

1:01:18

We're walking through this with

1:01:18

them. But it is okay to let them

1:01:22

lead when it comes to their

1:01:22

authentic selves. They know

1:01:24

themselves better than we do. We

1:01:24

don't necessarily know. Exactly

1:01:30

the thing.

1:01:31

You Yeah, I

1:01:31

wholeheartedly agree. Like

1:01:34

Amber, when I gain into the fact

1:01:34

that I have such an intelligent

1:01:41

style, my fears, I'm worried

1:01:41

about my child being

1:01:45

discriminated against

1:01:45

mistreated, guess what my

1:01:48

child's worried about being

1:01:48

discriminated against,

1:01:51

mistreated, and he's worried not

1:01:51

only for himself, he's worried

1:01:54

for other people. So he goes out

1:01:54

and creates communities where

1:01:58

people feel safe, and where

1:01:58

trans people can talk. And he

1:02:02

established the transgender

1:02:02

Society of Michigan, during the

1:02:06

pandemic. And so that's me just

1:02:06

saying, Okay, wait, I have a

1:02:11

child who's really smart. I

1:02:11

just, I mean, I could have this,

1:02:16

you know, this battle with him

1:02:16

this battle of the wits, but

1:02:20

then I would have never got the

1:02:20

gifts that I got from just

1:02:23

transcending who I was as a

1:02:23

person, from being stuck where I

1:02:27

was, from being narrow minded, I

1:02:27

really can identify with Amber,

1:02:31

and a lot of different ways. If

1:02:31

I didn't just give my child some

1:02:35

footing, and owning who they are

1:02:35

in the first place. And talking

1:02:39

and having discussions and

1:02:39

saying, Wait, you're so you're

1:02:42

not It's not me versus you. But

1:02:42

you're thinking about the same

1:02:46

things I'm thinking, and even

1:02:46

more so because they're

1:02:48

happening to you, you know,

1:02:48

they're not, you know, I'm

1:02:51

thinking about a second hand,

1:02:51

you're actually doing something

1:02:53

about it. And we sort of put our

1:02:53

wits together to see what can we

1:02:56

do about this? What can we do

1:02:56

about the fact that people don't

1:03:00

have safe places that kids are,

1:03:00

you know, being discriminated

1:03:03

against? The kids are dying, the

1:03:03

kids are being kicked out, you

1:03:06

know, by their parents, because

1:03:06

they're transgender? Let's put

1:03:08

our minds together and work on

1:03:08

this issue. And that comes from

1:03:12

me following the lead of my

1:03:12

child. And yes, and I still have

1:03:16

to be the disciplinarian

1:03:16

sometimes and say, wash the

1:03:18

dishes, please wash the dishes.

1:03:18

But in the you know, in the

1:03:22

interim, about things that

1:03:22

really matter who they are as a

1:03:26

person, their concerns and

1:03:26

worries now, yeah, you you

1:03:30

should follow the leader child.

1:03:30

Definitely.

1:03:34

And I like what you said,

1:03:34

didi. You talked with them, that

1:03:39

communication is key. And I'm in

1:03:39

awe of your son, I just during

1:03:47

the pandemic, he was doing this,

1:03:47

this is amazing. And I mean,

1:03:52

it's just it's one of those

1:03:52

things, where, if I can't

1:03:56

remember if it was amber or

1:03:56

Jenny, check yourself, but put

1:04:01

yourself in, you know, try to

1:04:01

put yourself into what they're

1:04:04

thinking, and how are they going

1:04:04

to react? But I think I really,

1:04:10

I love that part where you said,

1:04:10

you are talking with him, not

1:04:14

talking at him or talking, you

1:04:14

know, around him, but with him.

1:04:19

And that's, I think that

1:04:19

communication is vital. And that

1:04:23

helps you follow their lead and

1:04:23

that helps bridge their trust

1:04:27

about their experiences and what

1:04:27

they're going through. Really

1:04:31

start solidifying that trust

1:04:31

that, hey, my parent believes in

1:04:36

me and believes who I am not

1:04:36

what society and I pull that out

1:04:42

a lot because that's what I

1:04:42

think it is. I think it's all

1:04:44

society. And Amber, I can

1:04:44

definitely agree with you with

1:04:48

the religion aspect. We'll have

1:04:48

to talk later.

1:04:51

When you think of all

1:04:51

the messages are getting, where

1:04:54

society is telling them they're

1:04:54

wrong, they're bad. They're, you

1:04:59

know, they're there. They're

1:04:59

crazy that that's what society

1:05:02

is telling them. And all the

1:05:02

stuff that they have to go

1:05:05

through, you need to be that

1:05:05

sounding board for them to say,

1:05:09

I see you, I believe in you, I

1:05:09

love you. You know, this is

1:05:13

what's going on? What can we do

1:05:13

about it? What do you think

1:05:16

about this? Because they're

1:05:16

getting all those messages, and

1:05:19

we don't even know the half of

1:05:19

it, you know, when they walk out

1:05:22

the door, what it's like to be

1:05:22

in their shoes? We really don't?

1:05:26

I think the question you

1:05:26

want to ask yourself is, do I

1:05:29

have generational trauma? And do

1:05:29

I want to pass that on to my

1:05:34

child? It's a simple question,

1:05:34

is this reaction because this is

1:05:40

what I believe? Or is this

1:05:40

reaction because this is what I

1:05:44

went through? And I'm just

1:05:44

passing it along? Because when

1:05:47

you ask yourself that question,

1:05:47

in any aspect of being a parent,

1:05:52

you will start to see the

1:05:52

patterns of things that are so

1:05:55

unhealthy. You know, there's so

1:05:55

many, not great things that we

1:06:01

pick up from our parents. And

1:06:01

you're like, I don't want to

1:06:05

pass that along. And it just,

1:06:05

yeah, I'm gonna follow my

1:06:10

child's lead. And, you know,

1:06:10

like Jenny, like Amber, like

1:06:14

Diddy, I'm gonna have a

1:06:14

conversation with you. I, for

1:06:18

me, there was always yelling

1:06:18

when I grew up. And so when I

1:06:21

had my child, you know, he, the

1:06:21

first few years of his life, I

1:06:26

didn't know how to be a parent

1:06:26

without yelling, I had to learn,

1:06:31

I had to decide this was not a

1:06:31

trauma that I wanted my child to

1:06:36

have. As an adult, I did not

1:06:36

want them to look back and go,

1:06:40

my mom always yelled, that was

1:06:40

no case. I mean, you know, my

1:06:46

son is white presenting, because

1:06:46

this just my jeans, like he will

1:06:51

be white presenting until he's

1:06:51

like, 20. And then he'll start

1:06:53

browning up like the rest of my

1:06:53

family, that that's he's white

1:06:58

presenting. And so to some

1:06:58

degree, he does have some

1:07:01

privilege. But he's got he's got

1:07:01

a couple of things. You know,

1:07:05

he's transgender. He's queer.

1:07:05

He's white presenting, but he's

1:07:10

actually Puerto Rican. And you

1:07:10

know, my mother is black. So

1:07:13

like, he's got a whole bunch of

1:07:13

mixed genealogy. And so he's not

1:07:17

just dealing with this one thing

1:07:17

about being trans. He's dealing

1:07:21

with all the hormones you

1:07:21

normally deal with, and all of

1:07:25

these different things. And as a

1:07:25

parent, you're just like, Yeah,

1:07:29

I just want it better for my

1:07:29

child. And coming back to that

1:07:33

question is, do I want to pass

1:07:33

this chance to this, this

1:07:36

generational trauma on? And I

1:07:36

think if you ask yourself that,

1:07:39

it would be it's life changing.

1:07:39

And it really helps you get into

1:07:43

the mindset that can make you be

1:07:43

a better supportive parent, for

1:07:48

your for your kid. So the last

1:07:48

question I have for you

1:07:53

wonderful humans is, what do we

1:07:53

do now? Because I know a lot of

1:07:58

parents will get here and they

1:07:58

go, Well, what do you do when

1:08:00

your parent when your kid tells

1:08:00

you? I'm transgender? What the

1:08:03

hell do you do? Research ME

1:08:03

research. I know our podcast

1:08:09

very firmly. endorses Aaron

1:08:09

Reid's work, she is fantastic

1:08:15

about latest trans news, maps

1:08:15

legislation. And these are all

1:08:21

very important. We're in the US

1:08:21

where our kids are under attack,

1:08:24

make no doubt about it, they are

1:08:24

under attack, and we can only be

1:08:28

their safety net, we can only

1:08:28

shield them as much as we can.

1:08:32

And the only way to do that is

1:08:32

to do your research. Talk to

1:08:35

them, have open conversations

1:08:35

with them about what they're

1:08:41

going through how they feel I we

1:08:41

have ongoing conversations right

1:08:46

now every few months with my

1:08:46

son. We live in Florida. And

1:08:50

we're just like, these are the

1:08:50

bills that are coming through

1:08:52

right now. These are what have

1:08:52

passed. And we talked about it.

1:08:56

We watched debates together. My

1:08:56

son's been watching debates

1:08:59

since he was six. Like

1:08:59

presidential debates, we sit we

1:09:02

talk about the topics because it

1:09:02

is so important, you know, with

1:09:06

all the different aspects of

1:09:06

him, for him to be aware of

1:09:09

what's going on so that he can

1:09:09

navigate the world as safely as

1:09:13

possible. And so what do we do

1:09:13

now? For me, it's research and

1:09:18

that constant conversation. What

1:09:18

do you what do you lovely humans

1:09:21

have for me,

1:09:23

jump in there. For me,

1:09:23

it was fierce, really coming

1:09:28

clean with yourself. Because I

1:09:28

think that's a lot of it. Come

1:09:31

clean with yourself completely

1:09:31

with your own fears, your own

1:09:35

biases, your own shortcomings. I

1:09:35

had to write mine down, you

1:09:39

know, and really get them out

1:09:39

there. Because some of them are

1:09:42

just kind of hiding in the back.

1:09:42

You want to come clean with

1:09:45

yourself first. And then you

1:09:45

want to pick them one by one.

1:09:49

And you try to say you know, ask

1:09:49

yourself, are these things true?

1:09:53

And Are they helpful to my child

1:09:53

being who my child is? Is it

1:09:57

true? And is it helpful ones I

1:09:57

one, that's where I would say,

1:10:01

start with yourself and then you

1:10:01

can help your child.

1:10:04

I'm all about, you know,

1:10:04

find trans voices and trans

1:10:10

resources to research. Because

1:10:10

if I tell certain people to go

1:10:13

research, they're going to find

1:10:13

research, they're going to find

1:10:16

information that confirms their

1:10:16

bias already, if that's things

1:10:20

that they already believe, or

1:10:20

that they want to hear, and, you

1:10:25

know, just to steer it to, to

1:10:25

just listen to authentic people.

1:10:29

What I got on Tik Tok, and I

1:10:29

found I found trans people who

1:10:33

didn't have a lot of followers.

1:10:33

And it's kind of my mission to

1:10:36

get on there. I like to leave

1:10:36

nice comments, I like to like

1:10:38

their stuff. I like to show them

1:10:38

some support instead of the hate

1:10:41

that they get. You can always

1:10:41

find me on Tik Tok. I am at

1:10:44

trans loving mama. And I but I

1:10:44

would say most importantly, to

1:10:49

listen to those voices. Because

1:10:49

you can definitely find research

1:10:53

that will say something that's

1:10:53

not you know, whenever you look

1:10:55

at the major medical

1:10:55

associations, including the

1:10:59

American pediatrics,

1:10:59

association, you know, these

1:11:02

you're looking for the the real

1:11:02

deal, not the it's kind of

1:11:07

offshoot, you know, listen to

1:11:07

the majority experts there and

1:11:12

listen to trans voices, find

1:11:12

support groups in your area. And

1:11:15

if you can't find one goddang at

1:11:15

create one, you can find them

1:11:18

online, especially if you can't

1:11:18

find some in person stuff to do

1:11:22

find other people to talk to and

1:11:22

talk about this with. For

1:11:25

me, it was definitely

1:11:25

gather information. Because I

1:11:29

had already gone to nursing

1:11:29

school I had a certain class

1:11:32

actually took at my private

1:11:32

nursing school that was all

1:11:34

about sexual identity, like

1:11:34

sexuality was the name of the

1:11:37

class. So I had broken down all

1:11:37

of this. In fact, I was

1:11:40

beginning to suspect things with

1:11:40

my son, and remember going to

1:11:43

the professor and I'm like, What

1:11:43

do you think of this and this

1:11:47

and if they're doing this, and

1:11:47

he had said nothing to me yet,

1:11:50

but I just sensed it was coming

1:11:50

like there were enough songs

1:11:53

there that I knew it was coming.

1:11:53

And that the school was a

1:11:57

college, a Christian college is

1:11:57

actually the first Bible college

1:12:01

established in my state. And so

1:12:01

I remember the professor kind of

1:12:05

doing this. Well, I really hope

1:12:05

that's not what they feel like.

1:12:12

And I was like, Oh, I can't talk

1:12:12

to you. And I went back to my

1:12:15

book. And then from my book, I

1:12:15

went to the website, and I went

1:12:18

to because I was in nursing

1:12:18

school, I went to medically

1:12:20

accredited websites, I went to

1:12:20

Medical Association's I went to

1:12:24

evidence based practices,

1:12:24

everything was stat stat stat

1:12:30

data, data data, because that

1:12:30

that, for me, that's how I work.

1:12:34

And from there, like Jenny was

1:12:34

in a trans voices. The first

1:12:38

person I called when my son came

1:12:38

out to me was my pediatrician.

1:12:43

Because he was a very open very

1:12:43

understanding had been a

1:12:45

fantastic pediatrician. I was

1:12:45

like, Look, I'm the oldest is

1:12:50

just emailed me, and this is

1:12:50

what I'm dealing with, how do I

1:12:53

respond, I do not want to push

1:12:53

back. I do not want to offend. I

1:12:58

don't want to scare him away. I

1:12:58

want him to feel like you can

1:13:00

still come to me. And so he was

1:13:00

very supportive and just kind of

1:13:03

like, alright, Mom, calm down,

1:13:03

calm down. It's going to be

1:13:07

okay. And here's the next steps.

1:13:07

And do you think he needs a

1:13:10

psychologist? Does it need to

1:13:10

talk to somebody? Is he asking

1:13:14

you about hormone like he, the

1:13:14

the pediatrician that began kind

1:13:18

of going through those steps

1:13:18

would be about as your kid come

1:13:21

to you with these? And so I kind

1:13:21

of sat down with my is this

1:13:24

stuff that you're interested in?

1:13:26

No. Okay.

1:13:29

If you if you are come to

1:13:29

me, please. And because I had

1:13:32

kind of already opened that

1:13:32

door, it did kind of open that

1:13:35

door so that if people wanted to

1:13:35

come and needed to pay, I want

1:13:38

to start on hormone. That's something we needed to have the pediatrician, then he would come

1:13:39

to me for that. But he just

1:13:43

didn't decide any of that till

1:13:43

he was 90. So that was a, we

1:13:46

didn't have to do it and go with

1:13:46

that bridge. But it was always

1:13:49

about finding evidence based.

1:13:49

Just finding your evidence and

1:13:54

make sure that it's not do not

1:13:54

get it from a new source. Never

1:13:58

ever, ever a new source, ever a

1:13:58

new source, not Wikipedia, not

1:14:03

your friends. Not some nonprofit

1:14:03

and your piece, not a

1:14:10

politician, not a pastor.

1:14:13

And not the first thing on Google

1:14:17

which is usually like a

1:14:17

beat, which is the time

1:14:20

when you said what you

1:14:20

see. I was like that's an F.

1:14:24

Right? But I mean, even for

1:14:24

teachers who are part of your

1:14:31

child's life, or your children's

1:14:31

lives, educate them to know. I

1:14:38

mean, and that was that

1:14:38

something that I actually came

1:14:41

up had a parent literally and it

1:14:41

was not a transparent was an

1:14:45

autistic. There was a parent of

1:14:45

an autistic child gave me a file

1:14:49

folder, all about their child

1:14:49

and all about their likes all

1:14:56

about everything. And I'm not

1:14:56

saying the parent needs to go

1:14:58

through that if they don't want

1:14:58

You, but talk to your child's

1:15:02

teachers get them involved with

1:15:02

unfortunately, right now we've

1:15:07

got teachers quit and right and

1:15:07

left because the politicians are

1:15:12

trying to dictate what gets put

1:15:12

in school. And that's not what

1:15:16

teachers are for. And I always

1:15:16

said, politicians can walk and a

1:15:22

year in a teacher shoe, then

1:15:22

talk to me. But if they need,

1:15:27

they need to have a safe space

1:15:27

on campus, not just, you know,

1:15:32

under the table in the library

1:15:32

hiding because they're not

1:15:36

they're not welcome. Oh, you

1:15:36

know, if you're a teacher, and

1:15:40

you're listening to this, think

1:15:40

about it and open your door. Be

1:15:44

that safe space, I wasn't

1:15:44

allowed to put rainbow stuff on

1:15:47

my doors or my my name. But kids

1:15:47

talk. So I had kids that weren't

1:15:55

even my students. Max, can I

1:15:55

come eat lunch with you?

1:15:59

Absolutely. I never asked. They

1:15:59

would tell me. And I can't

1:16:05

remember who it was. But somebody said that, you know, you they get it from all sorts

1:16:06

of places negative, sometimes

1:16:11

positive, but it's all negative.

1:16:11

And they're sponges even in, you

1:16:15

know, high school, they're still

1:16:15

little sponges, they absorb

1:16:20

everything. And that negativity,

1:16:20

I'm sure. I'm sure you guys have

1:16:26

seen that. What are you ladies

1:16:26

have seen that with your, your

1:16:29

own kids, you see how it wears

1:16:29

them down. So if they've got

1:16:33

somebody else that's positive

1:16:33

and can support them outside of

1:16:37

home, it would be it That's

1:16:37

amazing. Because let me tell

1:16:43

you, my kids taught me, I think

1:16:43

more than I taught them. And I

1:16:49

tried to pass that on to my own

1:16:49

children. I'm like, You respect

1:16:53

people, I don't care. They can

1:16:53

be the one eyed one horned

1:16:56

flying purple people eater for

1:16:56

all I care, you still respect

1:16:59

him.

1:17:00

I can't say that any of us

1:17:00

disagree. You know, I understand

1:17:07

on a personal level that not

1:17:07

every parent is going to run out

1:17:12

the door and be supportive of

1:17:12

their child, I understand that

1:17:16

there are kids out there that

1:17:16

are going to lose contact with

1:17:19

loved ones and family members

1:17:19

over this. And it is so

1:17:24

important that if if you're

1:17:24

supportive of the community, if

1:17:28

you call yourself an ally, if

1:17:28

you are a trans parent that you

1:17:33

know puts your child first, it

1:17:33

is imperative that you

1:17:40

understand not everyone has that

1:17:40

right. Not everyone has a parent

1:17:43

that's supportive. And so like

1:17:43

we have Lisa, Lisa's adopted

1:17:47

many trans children, queer

1:17:47

children, and you know, be if

1:17:52

you can be that person in that

1:17:52

neighborhood, be that person, if

1:17:56

you can openly in your in your

1:17:56

position, in whatever position

1:18:00

you have, in whatever capacity

1:18:00

you have, you be that

1:18:03

transparent, that that trans

1:18:03

child needs you be that

1:18:07

supportive ally, because you

1:18:07

never know what they're getting

1:18:11

at home. You're just you can't

1:18:11

know. You know, and, you know,

1:18:17

as much as we'd love to say, oh,

1:18:17

you know, all parents love their

1:18:21

children. That is 110% not true.

1:18:21

There are many parents who, who

1:18:26

just can't love their children

1:18:26

that way, they just don't have

1:18:29

it in them. And you know,

1:18:33

no shame.

1:18:33

It's not for you. But

1:18:33

that's okay. We've got tons of

1:18:36

parents here that we will

1:18:36

willingly adopt, we will we will

1:18:40

be you in we will be your

1:18:40

transparent, we will love you,

1:18:44

we will give you that support,

1:18:44

you need that mentorship, we

1:18:47

will hold your hand. And it is

1:18:47

just it's so important to just

1:18:54

to just be there and make sure

1:18:54

you're you're you're giving that

1:18:57

that love and that support out.

1:18:57

So this has been absolutely

1:19:02

amazing. And I am running

1:19:02

overtime. For some of you go I'm

1:19:05

so sorry. I just have one more

1:19:05

question. If anyone feels

1:19:09

comfortable, I would love to end

1:19:09

this episode with a little bit

1:19:13

of trans joy. We've done

1:19:13

episodes on this before, but

1:19:18

being a parent of a trans child,

1:19:18

you have a lot of trans sadness,

1:19:23

but we love to share the the

1:19:23

little victories of big

1:19:26

victories. And here in the pod

1:19:26

we call that trans joy. So Do

1:19:30

any of you have any wonderful

1:19:30

trans joys to share with us?

1:19:35

Well, it's not about me,

1:19:35

so I'm not sure if I should

1:19:38

share it, but I'm going to share it you can always take it out if you don't like it. I my son

1:19:40

started on testosterone. He's

1:19:43

had his first testosterone

1:19:43

injection and he is so happy and

1:19:48

excited. And I mean this is a

1:19:48

kid who absolutely was terrified

1:19:52

always of any shot in the whole

1:19:52

world and he was so excited. So

1:19:55

I'm very happy for him. He also

1:19:55

has been accepted into the boys

1:19:59

do We're at his college, and we

1:19:59

move him in next month. So

1:20:04

that's really exciting to Yeah,

1:20:04

it's just really cool to watch.

1:20:08

I'm just really happy for him.

1:20:08

And my joy is that my dad, his

1:20:12

jaw jaw, even though he's, you

1:20:12

know, I know it's not his

1:20:16

favorite thing. But he does call

1:20:16

him by his correct name. He's,

1:20:21

sometimes it's back and forth

1:20:21

with the pronouns, but you know,

1:20:24

we're gonna give him grace. And

1:20:24

that relationship is good. So

1:20:30

that's the joy in our lives

1:20:30

right now. And I'm telling you,

1:20:33

if anyone is even remotely

1:20:33

doubting what the love and

1:20:39

support of someone can do for

1:20:39

your life, it is the difference.

1:20:43

It is a night and day difference

1:20:43

in, in how my kid experiences

1:20:48

life, just having people that he

1:20:48

knows, you know, just love him.

1:20:54

I think that's all our kids want is they want to be accepted for exactly who they

1:20:56

are. My son is now two and a

1:21:00

half months old, Tessa are two

1:21:00

and a half years on

1:21:02

testosterone. So I guess you

1:21:02

could say he is fully in it. In

1:21:07

fact, his beard, I would say

1:21:07

ArtRage joy is that as the

1:21:10

oldest sibling, he wound up

1:21:10

coming out with a fuller beard

1:21:14

than his younger brother. So and

1:21:14

like he's dark, so he's got

1:21:18

really dark hair like I do. And

1:21:18

then my second, my middle son

1:21:21

has like a reddish Auburn kind

1:21:21

of beard. And so their beards

1:21:25

are very different. But my son

1:21:25

will come out and it's just

1:21:29

full. And though it was just

1:21:29

like, this is I've been doing

1:21:33

five years, six, six, what what

1:21:33

and it's hilarious to see the

1:21:37

two of them. Like alright, bro,

1:21:37

alright, bro. And me. They've

1:21:41

been doing that for years. Like

1:21:41

they were bros. Before this ever

1:21:45

came out? Like again, hint,

1:21:45

hint, hint, hint, Mom, get it,

1:21:49

get it. Um, and the siblings

1:21:49

when they talked about the

1:21:52

siblings came out were fully

1:21:52

supportive like that. That was

1:21:55

mine. Like my man were like the

1:21:55

second. If I miss stepped, like

1:21:59

my youngest was like, Mom, Mom,

1:21:59

I'm like, I didn't even have a

1:22:03

chance to catch myself yet. And

1:22:03

the youngest would be like

1:22:06

correcting me. Get it? Right.

1:22:06

Get it right. So and they're

1:22:10

very protective. And like,

1:22:10

again, the sibling to sibling

1:22:14

that they just wrapped around

1:22:14

super supportive. super

1:22:18

fantastic. So I would say that

1:22:18

between my mother finally, and

1:22:22

this whole thing of her sharing

1:22:22

this week, again, that's a year

1:22:25

from so we're about a year from

1:22:25

when she said that she accepted

1:22:28

him. So we're like another year

1:22:28

from that. And now she's talking

1:22:32

to like, church friends. When

1:22:32

church friends talk about the

1:22:37

trans and that's evil, my hope,

1:22:37

hope. Hold on. You need a

1:22:42

backup. You don't know what

1:22:42

you're talking about? I don't

1:22:45

like. Yeah. So that is I would

1:22:45

say you know, anything, that's

1:22:49

probably because if I ever

1:22:49

thought somebody was not going

1:22:52

to accept my kid and not get

1:22:52

over it, it was definitely my

1:22:55

mother. So the fact that she's

1:22:55

doing these little things, and

1:22:58

it took time, but I just, I'm

1:22:58

like Jenny, like, it's the older

1:23:02

generation, I just give them

1:23:02

grace and space, because this is

1:23:05

just harder for them to. It's

1:23:05

just hard. It just seems harder

1:23:09

for them. And and I don't, I

1:23:09

didn't want to cut that

1:23:12

relationship. either. I wanted

1:23:12

my mother to be in his life. I

1:23:15

didn't want to like come down so

1:23:15

hard on her mom, get it in your

1:23:19

head that it's if I did that she

1:23:19

wasn't going to come around. I

1:23:23

had to very gently if she said

1:23:23

she, he Well, I don't know if he

1:23:29

if she be little things like

1:23:29

that. And I just kind of kept

1:23:34

very softly correcting her. And

1:23:34

then finally she would she he

1:23:40

she would correct it. And then

1:23:40

one day I accidentally she and

1:23:43

she's like, Hey, and I'm like

1:23:43

all right. So I mean, again,

1:23:49

it's a learning curve. It's a

1:23:49

learning curve for your family.

1:23:52

But I think when you do get

1:23:52

those family members who were so

1:23:55

obstinate, who were so like No,

1:23:55

and they start coming around,

1:24:00

definitely try enjoy, Jennifer,

1:24:00

trench toy that I feel like my

1:24:04

kid can go I still have a

1:24:04

grandmother. And honestly, I

1:24:07

don't think my kid felt like he

1:24:07

was gonna have any family other

1:24:11

than his siblings and myself. He

1:24:11

knew he'd have his pop off my

1:24:14

stepdad they knew that he'd have

1:24:14

their they'd have their pop off

1:24:17

the my mother. It was a big

1:24:17

question mark.

1:24:20

I think I've been

1:24:20

experiencing trans joy for the

1:24:22

last couple of years. And it all

1:24:22

started once again with me once

1:24:27

I was able to really see and

1:24:27

affirm my child. I mean, the kid

1:24:32

was the same but I felt like oh

1:24:32

my god, this kid is amazing. And

1:24:37

so you know, he saves me so much

1:24:37

money because he doesn't you

1:24:42

know find all these scholarships

1:24:42

for private college we both got

1:24:45

to experience finding a more

1:24:45

affirming college and place for

1:24:50

him to be himself. I think him

1:24:50

having that supportive parent

1:24:56

that frees them up to be

1:24:56

creative and be able to ride and

1:24:59

for into the lives of others.

1:24:59

Now, I'm not saying my child is

1:25:03

perfect, still 18 year old, but,

1:25:03

I mean, just this discovery that

1:25:09

yeah, this kid is the same kid

1:25:09

that I thought he was. And

1:25:14

that's just, I've been on that

1:25:14

ride ever since I was able to

1:25:19

learn to really affirm my my

1:25:19

child. And so I feel like I'm

1:25:23

bragging the transfer train.

1:25:26

Oh, we love that here. We

1:25:26

want that too much. I think one

1:25:30

of the other things as a parent

1:25:30

is you know, what can I

1:25:34

celebrate his happiness and when

1:25:34

you take those wins for your

1:25:38

child and you celebrate with

1:25:38

them, it is it is a kind of joy

1:25:43

that you cannot find any other

1:25:43

way whether it is supporting

1:25:47

their, their trans identity,

1:25:47

whether it is celebrating good

1:25:52

grades, like it does not matter.

1:25:52

When it comes down to it. This

1:25:56

is your child, and you have