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Tim: You're listening to episode 321, Weeds and Seeds

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of Ministry, number four, which is Center of Attention

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Snapdragon and Mission Myrtle.

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Sara: Welcome to Transforming Missions podcast, providing

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you with insights and resources you need to lead a

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movement of Jesus followers. Tim: Yeah, we'll say more about the weed and seed

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for this week in a moment. But first, let's remind listeners what these

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weeds and seeds are and why we're spending time

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talking about them. Sara: Sure, the ministry weeds are things that each and every

0:39

one of us can struggle with as pastors and as leaders.

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Weeds are things like overwhelm and fear and not

0:45

having enough time It could also be something like

0:48

isolation that can stop us from being and becoming

0:51

who God created us to be. The weeds tend to choke out our effectiveness as

0:56

leaders and can quickly take over if we're not careful.

0:59

Weeds pop up all the time, but as we learn to identify them,

1:03

we can quickly pluck them up and replace them with a seed.

1:07

Or, focus our attention on the seed.

1:11

Tim: And the seeds are the solution, the response, or

1:14

the antithesis of the weed. So the seeds help us continue to lead well and

1:19

fuel effective ministry. And when we embody practices like equipping others for

1:24

the work of ministry and building trust, we continue to

1:28

grow as leaders and serve in ways that honor our calling.

1:32

That honor God and honor the people we're leading.

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Sara: So, are we ready for this week's weed?

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Tim: I love that question. It's the the weed this week is the center of attention.

1:48

Snapdragon. Sara: Okay, so say that ten times fast.

1:53

Tim: The center of attention. Snapdragon makes themselves the focus of ministry.

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This can happen slowly over time when style or

2:02

preferences or opinions cause conflict to emerge.

2:08

Sara: And Tim, even hearing you name that, I've heard

2:11

you say it more than, more times than I care to admit.

2:15

When a pastor or leader becomes the focus of ministry,

2:19

you've lost focus, you've lost your focus on the mission.

2:22

Ha ha

2:26

Tim: yeah, since I've said it so many times, I won't say it again.

2:29

Because the focus of ministry and mission is Jesus.

2:33

And when anyone or anything replaces Jesus, you're no

2:38

longer focused on the mission. Sara: So is it fair to say this can happen

2:43

during a conflict? Tim: I've certainly seen it happen during conflict

2:49

and it doesn't have to be a major conflict. Again, it might be.

2:53

A conflict in style, a difference in opinion about

2:59

preferences for worship. I mean, nobody's ever had an opinion about, about worship

3:05

Sara: Never. Tim: or the, or the way meetings are led.

3:09

If a conflict emerges and the people involved are unable to

3:15

just take a moment to pause, Ask thoughtful questions of

3:20

one another, seek to find a solution, something someone,

3:25

or something other than Jesus becomes the focus.

3:32

Sara: And I'm just imagining a snapdragon sitting in

3:35

the center of the room, and if it could talk, it might say something like here is a reminder

3:41

of how you're behaving and treating one another.

3:44

So here's your reminder. Love one another as Jesus loved you.

3:48

Because often when I have been a part of conversations,

3:51

and usually it's been, I've been called in to, to help

3:55

navigate when some, when a conflict has happened.

4:01

There's nothing loving about what is happening.

4:04

They're not loving one another and they're not

4:07

demonstrating the love of God that we know in Jesus.

4:12

Tim: Exactly. And when it's not the love of God, we know in Jesus

4:16

that's fueling ministry. Sometimes this weed becomes defensive and when

4:23

there's defensiveness. The mission is no longer being fueled by that love.

4:30

Sara: Okay, we may have given this weed more

4:34

airtime than it deserves. When the center of attention snapdragon sprouts, I

4:40

think we've made our case, people are no longer

4:42

focused on the mission. Tim: Sara, let me I'll, I'll have my

4:47

district superintendent hat on for a moment.

4:50

That many times when people have difficulty with a pastor,

4:56

What happens is the mission no longer is the focus.

5:00

The pastor becomes the focus. Now I know that many of our listeners are pastors.

5:05

I just want you to hear this. If you make yourself the center of attention,

5:11

whether it's because you've got to have your way.

5:14

Or you make yourself the center of attention

5:16

because you are so good. Everybody wants to follow you.

5:22

You've lost focus of the mission.

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That's what we're talking about here. Sara: So can I say it plainly?

5:30

If your ego is too big, and all the attention

5:35

is being called to you, and you're not pointing

5:37

people to Jesus, You're not focused on the mission.

5:42

Tim: And, and what I've, what I'm learning is that

5:45

even when there's conflict and it might be focused

5:48

upon you as the leader, you have through your own self

5:53

awareness have the opportunity to keep people focused.

5:58

in another direction. You don't have to take it all personally.

6:03

I know it hurts. I know it feels like you want to tell some people

6:07

to go straight someplace. What it comes to is you have the opportunity as the leader,

6:13

even in your vulnerability, to be who you're supposed

6:17

to be and you keep focused.

6:20

upon the mission, the love of God we know in Jesus.

6:25

Sara: So I keep trying to move us on from center of

6:27

attention, Snapdragon, because it feels counterintuitive

6:32

to talk about it, but I know we, I know you need

6:35

to talk about it to be able to, to set the stage.

6:38

So are we ready to move on to the fourth seed?

6:40

Because I like this one. I like this one partly because of the series of

6:46

books it calls to mind. Mission Myrtle keeps the mission at the

6:50

center of ministry. Do you know what book I'm referring to yet?

6:55

It's not a ministry book at all. There's your hint.

6:59

They recognize even their good ideas have

7:02

to be evaluated through the lens of the mission.

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Tim: Yes, sir. I know we both appreciate this one because its

7:10

focus is on the mission.

7:13

And I'm just surprised we've waited until

7:16

number four of weeds and seeds to even name it.

7:20

Sara: Touché. Maybe we should talk to the people who do this

7:23

podcast and fix that. laughs

7:27

Tim: I know them both well. Mission Myrtle asks questions like, Why are we

7:33

engaged in this ministry? Questions like, does it help us focus on the

7:39

mission of making disciples of Jesus Christ for the

7:42

transformation of the world? Sara: Yeah, and I am always surprised by the

7:50

things that can happen in our local churches that

7:53

people don't know about. don't understand what is and what isn't focused on the

7:59

mission, and even have an understanding of why, why are

8:04

we doing this thing that takes a ton of energy and takes

8:07

a ton of effort and might even take a lot of money?

8:11

And no one's ever stopped to answer the question of why?

8:15

Why are we engaged in this ministry, let alone

8:17

connecting it to the mission?

8:20

And One of the churches that I served, when I arrived, I was

8:25

handed a list of ministries of the church, and there were

8:28

well over a hundred of them. I was kind of blown away, , thinking, how could a church

8:35

have over a hundred ministries that they are involved in?

8:40

It was a large congregation, but a hundred ministries?

8:43

I mean, I don't even know some of the largest congregations

8:47

that I had observed from afar that really had a

8:51

hundred, a hundred ministries that they could name.

8:57

Over, over my time there, it came to the place that

9:02

we needed to make some decisions about an endowment

9:06

fund that we had and where that money was going.

9:11

And so how I approached it was looking at all of these

9:17

ministries, because I came to find out that those hundred

9:20

ministries some of them were claimed as a ministry because

9:24

someone gave money to that organization or they sat on a

9:28

board for that organization.

9:30

They weren't truly things that the church was

9:34

engaged in ministry with.

9:37

And so we were able to remove some of those

9:40

things very quickly. And then it got to the place that there were things that

9:46

they were definitely good causes, but we began to filter

9:51

them through the mission and ask the question and

9:55

make the statement that the money that we are giving is

9:58

going to follow the mission. And we looked at how could we engage with that ministry

10:05

to build relationships with people and help people

10:08

live out their faith. In ministry.

10:11

Now, I would love to tell you that that was a

10:15

beautiful process, and it was an easy process, and

10:19

people loved doing it. Oh, I frustrated more people than I could count by what,

10:27

what we did, because what, what was heard in the midst

10:31

of that, and I'm sure that I contributed to this, was

10:36

what you do isn't important. And that was not at all what we were trying to say.

10:41

What we were trying to say is, as a congregation, there

10:44

are certain things that we are going to focus on, and

10:47

those things that we are going to focus on, and where

10:49

we are going to give our money, where we are going to focus our time, where we are going to put our

10:54

effort and our energy, is going to be aligned with the

10:58

mission of making disciples of Jesus Christ for the

11:01

transformation of the world.

11:03

Now, part of what I would say to you is, when you

11:06

are focused on the mission. That word focus can frustrate people.

11:12

And why does it frustrate people? Because all of a sudden, if anything goes, now you

11:21

have, going to go back to our previous episode,

11:24

now you have boundaries. Anything doesn't go any longer.

11:28

And you have to be able to articulate how is something

11:32

contributing to the mission.

11:34

Tim: Well said. So let me, let me say it a different way.

11:38

I'll put, I'll put a biased point of view to it.

11:43

It's okay if someone says, You're focused to a fault.

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Sara: Oh, you've never heard that ever. Tim: I've heard that.

11:55

I've heard that several times over 50 years.

11:59

You're focused to a fault. It's okay because your job is to stay focused on Jesus

12:05

and it's to help other people stay focused on Jesus.

12:08

And the life of the church, the ministry of

12:10

the church, the mission of the church is an activity.

12:14

And it's not, it's not even, it's not even saying

12:18

that we're involved in all of these things.

12:21

The mission of the church is to experience the love of

12:25

God in Jesus, in the world in which we're living, in

12:29

and through each other, and interaction with one another.

12:33

That doesn't happen. If I may say it this way, and I'm not a hunter, I don't

12:38

know a whole lot about guns, but I will say it this way.

12:41

It doesn't happen with a shotgun approach.

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It happens when you are laser focused.

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Does that mean the things around it aren't important?

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No. What it means is, what you're focused upon, if it's the love

12:58

of God in Jesus, there will be plenty of love left over

13:02

for the things around you. Sara: Yeah, and, and it's also, there have been times,

13:12

this is a silly example, but been said, so I'll offer it.

13:18

You know, well, are you saying we can't do potlucks any longer?

13:22

No! But do the potluck and name it for what it is.

13:28

It's an opportunity for the church family to sit down

13:30

and have a meal together and spend some time together.

13:33

Now, you might be intentional in that, in focusing on

13:38

the mission, in doing something like that.

13:41

I've never experienced a potluck that had any intentionality, because it's a potluck.

13:46

The very nature of it. It's not focused on, on the mission.

13:51

It's, it's a great example of whatever goes, you

13:54

know, whatever you want to bring, bring it. And sometimes, I'm sure that you can relate.

14:00

You've had some really interesting meals at, at a potluck.

14:04

Now, the one thing that I will say about this one

14:07

is I do wish that I didn't have a picture of the actor

14:09

in Harry Potter there. I just gave you the name of the book series and the movie.

14:15

It continues to come to mind every time we said or

14:18

focused on Mission Myrtle. Just google Moaning Myrtle Harry Potter if you need

14:23

a little laugh, because That might help you keep

14:27

your mind focused on and have a little bit of sense

14:31

of humor about staying focused on the mission.

14:35

Let's, can we shift a little bit to some of the

14:38

questions that mission, no, no, I have that , actor's

14:42

face really in my mind, even asking this question.

14:45

Okay. Are we ready to shift to some questions that

14:49

Mission Myrtle might offer

14:51

Tim: I'm, I'm ready. Sara: Okay. So if you've been in a meeting with Mission Myrtle, you may

15:01

have been asked a question, something like, where

15:04

have you seen God at work? Now you might say, well, how does that question

15:11

relate to the mission. That question helps people keep their eyes and their

15:16

heart open to Jesus. It's a question that is asked every time there's a meeting

15:22

to help people be able to articulate their faith, remind

15:25

one another of God's movement in their midst, and O, to

15:30

stay focused on the mission. So let me just try this.

15:36

Tim, where have you seen God at work?

15:40

Tim: Sara, I'm, I I pray every day.

15:43

This is just my confession. I pray every day that God would help me see Jesus and

15:50

the people that I encounter, whether it's, uh, just

15:56

acquaintance or relationship.

15:58

I think that's one way that as we've talked in previous

16:02

episodes, it's one way that helps me with generosity

16:06

because I'm looking for I'm looking for Jesus.

16:10

Some easy places to do that. I know you asked me a specific question.

16:14

I'll get there. But an easy place to do this is with children, um, because

16:21

I think, I think for us children are less intimidating

16:27

because they're children. It's a little more difficult to see Jesus in some people

16:33

might be adults who are saying and acting differently

16:36

than we want them to. It's easy to say for me, Oh, I saw God in an eclipse.

16:48

It's easy for me to say that I can, I can experience

16:54

God's power through the storms that have come through

16:58

our area in recent weeks.

17:02

I can, I can, I can say that, but I think the mission

17:08

isn't just me trying to find a place where I see God in.

17:13

and work in nature or in the universe I think the mission

17:17

is to see God or experience Jesus or God's love in people.

17:24

And somehow, I'm not sure when I made the, the specific

17:29

decision, but somewhere I decided that that I would

17:33

experience Jesus every day in the people around me.

17:37

Sometimes I do that and, and I, I, I don't want to

17:40

go for a long time here, but sometimes I can do

17:43

that through colleagues sitting around the table.

17:46

When I just experience some of the things that

17:49

they've experienced. One of, one of my colleagues had a child with disabilities.

17:57

And he's been able to tell stories about how he grew

18:01

being able to be an advocate for his son when he found

18:05

out that even he was standing in the way of his son at

18:08

times when other people were wanting to love him.

18:12

And I'm saying to myself, my goodness, how many

18:15

times do I stand in the way of love of Jesus?

18:18

Because I want to be loved a certain way.

18:21

I have experienced God's love.

18:24

even in the midst of some some real conflict, like

18:28

we talked about last week. And one, one situation particularly with somebody

18:33

I have great respect for, who sees things

18:37

differently than I do. And I keep saying, God, show up in his life, so what we

18:44

say and do brings you glory. But saying all that, I I, I will say that where

18:49

I experience God's love. Or experienced Jesus one time recently, and this wasn't

18:56

just yesterday or, or today.

18:59

It's when I turned 70 and

19:04

Sara: birthday, Tim. Tim: it's, it's over.

19:10

I'm on my way to 71, but when I turned and thank

19:14

you for that I'm, I'm watching my son with his

19:17

daughters, and we're having a celebration, and I know

19:21

it's my birthday, and we've got a cake, and we've got all

19:24

this stuff, but I remember particularly a time when it

19:31

was a difficult time for me. Being a father and I didn't know what to do.

19:36

I mean, I wasn't doing well.

19:40

So I just remember one time just saying to God I don't

19:44

know that I can do this the way it's supposed to be done.

19:49

I just need to be the father he needs.

19:56

through all the conflict we had at that moment, just

19:58

with that relationship, I began to see Jesus in him.

20:03

Even though he wasn't acting the way I wanted him to act, he wasn't doing what I wanted him to do.

20:08

God started showing up in him. And on this birthday I experienced Jesus

20:13

and my granddaughter. I've told several people that that was probably the

20:17

best birthday I'd ever had. And I have a good friend that continues to remind

20:23

me of my birthday. And we we joke about it because it's fun.

20:31

But every time I'm reminded, I'm reminded that I have the

20:34

opportunity to see Jesus. in the people around me.

20:40

Sara: Tim just answered the question in multiple, multiple

20:44

ways, and, and I'm glad that he did, and did it in the,

20:50

in a way that gave you a few examples of what might happen

20:55

if you ask that question. Every time I have Had conversation with leaders or

21:01

even asked that question for the first time myself Often

21:06

when I get back are blank stares and so this is a place

21:15

that you're going to need to go back to last week's

21:18

seed of trusting time and Continue to ask the question

21:27

and Then when you get to the point where you have multiple

21:32

preachers in the room, and they have multiple examples,

21:36

and they might want to give a sermon, you might have to

21:38

ask them to bottom line it. So that you're not spending your whole meeting

21:45

just on that example.

21:47

I only offer those tactical things because I've seen

21:50

people ask this question, and then they'll say

21:53

something to me like, Well, nobody had a response, so

21:56

I'm not asking it again. Ask it again.

22:00

Ask it again. Keep asking it.

22:02

And you can ask it in different ways.

22:04

It's, it's the, there is not another way that I

22:09

know that is, well, there's many other ways that

22:12

you can come around it. But it is a great question to continue keeping people

22:17

focused on the mission and keeping focused on Jesus.

22:21

Tim: Yeah, you just a generous way of saying I

22:23

said too much all at once. Sara: No!

22:28

Don't twist my words! Tim: So let me give you one that, that I still laugh about

22:34

just happened the other day.

22:36

And I don't know why I don't know what I, I don't even

22:38

remember what I was wearing, but I'm at a grocery store

22:42

and somebody walks up to me and says, can you tell me what

22:45

aisle such and such is in? Sara: Were you in Target and had on a red shirt?

22:53

Tim: And I, and I immediately the thought came to mind,

22:56

I don't work here, but what came out of my mouth was, I

23:03

know what you're looking for. Let me take you to where it is.

23:09

Sara: You didn't even say, let me find someone who

23:11

might be able to help you. Tim: no, I said, cause I knew where it was.

23:14

I said, instead of me pointing to where it was, I said, let

23:16

me take you to where it is. And we walked a couple aisles down and, and

23:21

there it was on the shelf. And thank you.

23:25

And I pulled it off the shelf, says what you

23:27

want, I got thanked. And that night when I, as I reflect, cause I reflect

23:33

every day, I just thought for the first time in,

23:37

in, in almost 70 years.

23:41

I actually didn't point a finger and say you can

23:44

go that way to do it. I said come and go with me and I'll take you to it.

23:50

And that's what we're, we're really about the mission at

23:53

that point, isn't trying to point somebody in a direction.

23:57

It's taking people along with us.

24:00

Joining people on the path, inviting them

24:03

along in the movement to get, to get to Jesus.

24:08

Sara: Yeah, you're, you're naming Mission Myrtle

24:11

is a leader who models for others and helps

24:14

others be intentional.

24:17

Intentional in their actions, intentional with their

24:19

time, intentional with their money, intentional with

24:22

their people resources. Tim: So Sara, what I would say is even, even using me as that

24:28

example and that being focused to a fault might very well be

24:33

that You're involved in what you're involved in, but the

24:36

focus is always to help people find their way into God's

24:40

loving embrace so they can be who God created them to be.

24:44

, I want to say this. I am, I am totally.

24:47

I'm in 100 percent support of Justice Ministries, but if we

24:53

forget why we're in Justice Ministries, we are not about

24:57

the mission of the church. I'm in 100 percent of evangelism, but if we

25:03

forget why we're telling the story, we have, we

25:08

have lost our vision, our focus on the mission.

25:12

So being focused to a fault means that everything you

25:17

do grows out of that mission for the purpose of being

25:22

who God created you to be. Sara: And yes, Tim said everything.

25:30

Tim: Everything. Sara: Everything. Everything.

25:34

Well, thank you for pulling the weeds for us and planting

25:37

the seed of Mission Myrtle.

25:42

Here's something that I learned when I went

25:45

looking for a picture of a myrtle plant because

25:49

I was trying to pull the weed of a myrtle seed.

25:54

Moaning Myrtle from Harry Potter in my mind.

25:59

Myrtle roots easily. Our prayer is that that might be so for our mission as well.

26:05

And even if it's not easy, oh what God might be able to do

26:10

with a dose of intentionality.

26:14

Thank you. Thank you for joining us for this fourth installment of the

26:19

Weeds and Seeds of Ministry. We can't wait to share the next Weed and Seed

26:24

with you next week. As a reminder, you can find show notes for this

26:28

episode And maybe even a picture of Moaning Myrtle

26:32

if you go check it out. We'll just have to wait and see.

26:35

You can find all of that at transformingmission.

26:38

org forward slash three two one.

26:41

And if you missed any of the previous episodes in this

26:44

series, we'll link to those on the show notes page as well.

26:48

And remember, who you are is how you lead.

26:52

Bye for now.