0:00

Seems like there's a story behind everything you

0:02

see in Ireland. Some of

0:04

the country's struggles are artistically depicted in

0:07

Dublin's Garden of Remembrance. In the tiles

0:09

on the floor of the water feature,

0:11

there are broken weapons. There

0:14

are old weapons, spears and arrows and such, that

0:17

are broken to show that conflict is over. Coming

0:19

up, we get expert tips for a walking tour of

0:21

Dublin. Author Tim Egan

0:23

reminds us how Ireland's 19th century

0:25

legacy changed what America would become.

0:28

And the famine was a horrible

0:30

tragedy, and it lives steep in our bones

0:32

right now. But it's also the tale

0:34

of the human spirit and the resilience. And

0:37

you can find the old ways are alive and

0:39

well on the Aran Islands, just beyond Galway Bay.

0:41

There is a bit of trouble to get there.

0:43

It's not all that straightforward, like many islands. So

0:46

there's a sense of adventure about

0:48

it. This is about 93 miles

0:50

of stonewalls on those three islands.

0:52

It's incredible. It's all about

0:54

Ireland in the hour ahead on Travel with

0:56

Rick Steves. The

1:01

most Irish place of all is not actually on

1:03

the Emerald Isle. You'll find

1:05

it on a string of three weather-beaten islands just

1:08

outside Galway Bay. We'll explore

1:10

the timeless Aran Islands a little later in

1:12

the hour. And Tim Egan reminds

1:14

us of the substantial contributions Irish

1:17

immigrants have made to American society. He

1:20

tells the remarkable story of one Irish American who

1:22

escaped English executioners to

1:24

end up becoming governor of the

1:27

Montana Territory. Let's start today's

1:29

All Irish Hour with tips for a

1:31

walking tour of Dublin. With

1:34

nearly 2 million people in Greater Dublin,

1:36

Ireland's capital is by far its biggest

1:38

city, and it thrives with

1:40

arts, entertainment, food, and fun. Just

1:43

taking a walk through Ireland's capital, you can see and

1:45

experience so much of its charms. And if you know

1:47

where to look and if you know where to walk,

1:49

it's even better. That's why

1:51

we've invited two great Irish guides,

1:54

Joe Darcy and Ciaran O'Hare, to join us in

1:56

our studios for a guided stroll through Dublin. Joe

1:59

and Ciaran, thank you. Thanks for being with

2:01

us. Our pleasure. Great to be here. So, Karen,

2:03

if you were going to take somebody on a

2:05

walk through Dublin, where would you start? I

2:08

think I'd probably start up in Stevens

2:10

Green, which is at the south end

2:12

of Grafton Street, which is a pedestrianized

2:14

shopping street. And Stevens Green is a

2:16

beautiful manicured 18th-century park. It

2:18

reminds me of when you get off the

2:20

platform and suddenly you're at Hogwarts. You step

2:22

out of the middle of this busy, packed

2:24

city into a beautiful manicured park. Actually it

2:27

reminds me of London. Very much so. It's

2:29

because it was designed in a time when

2:31

Dublin was actually the second city in the

2:33

British Empire. Oh, without question. You know, everything

2:36

from the wrought iron fencing around the

2:38

entire park to the style of landscape

2:40

architecture inside the park is very, very

2:42

evocative of those parks in London. And

2:45

Joe, when we think of St. Stevens Green

2:47

today, it has some connections with Ireland's

2:49

difficult fight for independence. During the

2:52

1916 rebellion on Easter Monday, called

2:54

the Easter Rebellion, and there

2:56

was one contingent of Irish rebels where

2:58

in command of Stevens Green. Their job

3:00

was to man Stevens Green barricades the

3:02

streets and prevent British reinforcements from getting

3:04

into the city center. Amazingly,

3:07

their only experience of warfare, because these

3:09

were not soldiers, was watching the pathway

3:11

news from World War I, and where

3:13

everybody was digging trenches all over Belgium

3:15

and France. So they dug trenches in

3:17

Stevens Green to hold out. But of

3:19

course, British Army got up on the four-story buildings

3:21

all around the Green, particularly the Gresham Hotel. They

3:23

had a clear line of fire. It's like they're

3:25

digging their own tombs. Yeah, yeah. So

3:27

they retreated from there into a place called the

3:29

Royal College of Surgeons, which is just when you

3:31

come out of Stevens Green through that gate, around

3:34

to your left is the Royal College of Surgeons,

3:36

and you can still see bullet marks in the

3:38

hole. And those are left there at the memorial,

3:40

almost, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. Bullet holes to

3:42

remind of the blood that was lost as Ireland

3:44

won its independence. That was no easy feat. The

3:46

more understanding of history you bring to your visit

3:48

to Dublin, the more you'll enjoy your sightseeing. Today,

3:50

when I go to St. Stevens Green, of course

3:53

you've got the history, but it's just a festival

3:55

of youth and families and life. People

3:57

are feeding the ducks in the pond. There's a little theater

3:59

there. And it's the kickoff point

4:01

for Grafton Street. Karen mentioned Grafton Street. Joe,

4:03

when you walk down Grafton Street, what are

4:05

you going to find? You're going to find

4:07

a multitude of small shops as well as

4:09

the big retail shops. Actually

4:11

strange enough, when you come down from Stevens Green, one

4:13

of the first big shops you see on your left

4:16

is Disneyland. So there's a- The Disney store. You

4:18

know, this is the high rent street. And when you

4:20

have the high rent street, it drives out the local

4:22

businesses, doesn't it? And it brings in the- what are

4:25

you going to see, Karen, when you walk down Grafton

4:27

Street? Well, I think the first thing that you notice

4:29

is the street is seething with life. There's wall-to-wall

4:31

people coming and going in either direction. And you

4:33

know, living in Dublin, you're always- if you live

4:35

there, you're going to run into someone you know

4:38

in that street. You know, when you do walk

4:40

down it, you don't see any churches right on

4:42

the street, but hiding a little bit off the

4:44

way is a Catholic church. Why would a Catholic

4:46

church be hiding off the main street in Dublin?

4:49

Well, St. Theresa's Church right off Grafton Street was

4:51

one of the first places that it was allowable,

4:53

I believe, for Roman Catholics to openly

4:56

worship after the period of time in the 18th

4:58

century known as the penal laws, when

5:00

open practice of Roman Catholicism was officially outlawed

5:02

by British rulers in Ireland. So that church

5:04

is right off St. Stephen's Green and it's

5:07

very much an oasis of tranquility

5:09

in the city as it has been since the

5:11

18th century. St. Theresa's- it's a beautiful church to

5:13

dip into and it is interesting to think that

5:16

in Ireland, Dublin was sort of London's

5:19

second city and it was very

5:21

not Catholic, but when Catholicism was

5:23

allowed, you could worship as Catholics

5:25

in Dublin but keep a low

5:28

profile. Exactly. So these great churches are tucked

5:30

away in the back street. Although they were allowed

5:32

to openly practice religion, that wasn't really open. That

5:34

was in inverted commas. The church still had to

5:36

be kind of hidden away. They weren't allowed to

5:38

build churches on a main street. That's why it's

5:40

down that side. So Joe, at

5:42

the bottom of Grafton Street, you come to

5:44

a very important college, a beautiful college, Trinity

5:46

College, And originally for the Elites,

5:48

for the Protestant kids. But Of course today

5:50

everybody's welcome. As A traveler, how do you

5:53

enjoy Trinity College? Well, The best way to

5:55

visit it is to go into the front

5:57

main entrance on a area called College Green.

6:00

Graphics features continue on straight over to your

6:02

right hand side and you come out into

6:04

a beautiful George and Square. A huge amount

6:06

of.on was rebuilt swords and in that like

6:08

neoclassical screams British Empire eighteenth century can. George

6:10

W was rebuilt in the eighteenth century and

6:13

a George's I will when the best George

6:15

and cities in Britain or Trinity College his

6:17

sword like a the Elite call yet free.

6:19

I didn't know the cause was founded And

6:21

fifty Ninety Two, there's nothing left or the

6:23

recent college. It was almost totally Rebels Starting

6:25

and sixty Nineties and and by to the

6:28

Eighteenth century Karen My favorite thing when. I

6:30

stepped through That kind entrance of Trinity is

6:32

a little table where there are students suffering

6:34

tours yeah, that's right, and I used to

6:37

live right across from that table when I

6:39

was in college and Trinity right in front

6:41

square and their students known as scholars of

6:43

the college who passed a competitive examination to

6:46

be have free tuition at the college. and

6:48

they give tours of front square dressed in

6:50

the academic downs that were still common among

6:52

students until recently. and they are really eloquent,

6:54

fun loving students giving you a look at

6:57

student life. It's very inexpensive, it's a great

6:59

way to get a sense of Trinity Com

7:01

absolutely, and a great way to get a

7:03

sense of the tradition of wit in Dublin.

7:06

It goes back to one of the most

7:08

famous as eternally Oscar Wilde, our guide to

7:10

Dublin on travel with Ricksteves or Irish American

7:12

Kiran O'hare He attended Trinity College and is

7:15

an expert on the cylinder types which he

7:17

performs with the classic trio open the door

7:19

for Three to Darcy, provide custom walking tours

7:21

of Dublin and was recently on the board

7:24

of Historic Sweeney Pharmacy where James Joyce meetings

7:26

are given throughout the week. When we go

7:28

to Trinity College course, you. Gotta go to

7:30

the library into the Book of Kells

7:32

and says I'm one of the most

7:35

important medieval art treasures in Western civilization.

7:37

And you leave Trinity when I was

7:39

really struck by is a bank that

7:41

used to be the Parliament. You step

7:43

in there. Any get it? a little

7:45

dose of British rule of Ireland ghetto?

7:47

Take us into that. That's the most

7:49

important building built in Dobbins. You're not

7:51

rebuilding. Eighteenth century was a new by

7:53

camera houses of Parliament or the first

7:55

purpose built houses of Parliament. certainly in

7:57

Europe is not a word. Talk about.

8:00

Forty Years to complete. Between seventeen, Forty seven, eighty

8:02

and at housed two chambers the House of Commons

8:04

in the House of Lords very much along that

8:06

the British and I can step into one of

8:08

those houses. To this day it opened during banking

8:11

hours Yeah, three and and you really guess sense

8:13

of their annual. After the Act of Union and

8:15

first of January, eight hundred and one we became

8:17

part of the United Kingdom of Great. But the

8:19

night the Bank of Ireland Ireland first Commercial Bank

8:22

they took over the building, paid for. The.

8:24

House of Commons had to be put out

8:26

of use. never to be used as a

8:28

place of assembly gets, but the said nothing

8:30

about the House of Lords Soda Bank of

8:32

Ireland has maintained its and it's a beautiful

8:34

room. It's mostly open jordan banking hours occasionally

8:36

those functions and there was you'll see a

8:38

sign outside that it either open or closed.

8:40

I stumbled into just as last year. I

8:43

never knew about it and it was great.

8:45

Know Joe! I know that you take tours

8:47

of the bridges of Dublin From this said

8:49

Trinity College. In the Parliament Buildings, you can

8:51

walk basically through Temple Bar that the Party

8:53

Zone rather pubs are another. Drinking and so

8:55

on at night and all the tourists go

8:57

there for their to Siddiq Irish kind of

9:00

fun. He goes through Temple Bar and you

9:02

get to the hip. Any bridge tell us

9:04

about the bridge, the river and the other

9:06

bridges that the lease north and south Dublin

9:08

together. Happily bridge was built in eighteen sixteen

9:11

was over twenty years about and it was

9:13

problems forced pedestrian bridge. Amazingly, it's

9:15

replaced a ferry service across the river from

9:17

the fashionable Northside still fashionable down to the

9:20

new party area and Temple Bar does a

9:22

perfectly good well. It wasn't a perfectly good

9:24

bridge on either side of the Happy Bridge

9:27

the Halfpenny Hype Me bridge but they was

9:29

Modi. The ladies were going to the theater

9:31

land and Temple Bar they would get are

9:33

scarce western the gentleman would get on smadi

9:36

sort of took a ferry across the river

9:38

from the early eighteen hundreds of areas where

9:40

be com and waterlogged and the frame imo

9:42

given a choice either get new for his

9:45

or. told them would build a bridge

9:47

across and the thirties could organize a

9:49

company to charge a toll across the

9:51

bridge and the toll was a half

9:53

penny honestly that hey pay for any

9:55

bridge it was officially a sailor's officially

9:57

caused tobin bridge or hi sam staff

10:00

If there's a postcard of Dublin, one single

10:02

image, it probably has that beautiful arcing Hey

10:04

Penny Bridge over the river. Interesting site, but

10:06

it was built by Harlan and Wolf, the

10:08

big shipbuilders in Belfast, and people who built

10:10

the Titanic. Well Hey

10:12

Penny Bridge is still standing. Still standing. This

10:15

is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking Dublin

10:17

with two Dublin guides, Kieran O'Hare and Joe

10:19

Darcy. Kieran, we've seen one side of the

10:21

river, we've crossed the Hey Penny Bridge, and

10:23

just to the right you see a towering

10:25

statue, and it's by a very important Irishman,

10:27

and there's a boulevard that leads up the

10:29

hill from there with his same

10:31

name, and this to me is the

10:33

way to celebrate Irish independence. Walk us

10:35

up O'Connell Street. Well, absolutely. At the

10:37

foot of O'Connell Street, right off the

10:39

river, Liffey is a beautiful statue of

10:41

Daniel O'Connell, known as O'Connell the Liberator,

10:43

a great Irish attorney, statesman, and advocate

10:46

for Catholic religious freedom, a magnificent monument

10:48

to his memory there at the foot

10:50

of O'Connell Street, which used to be

10:52

called Sackville Street when it was built.

10:55

As you walk up the street, there's an amazing number of

10:57

statues. The one that always stands out to me is the

10:59

statue of James Larkin. Yes, his arms outstretched

11:02

the great labor organizer and left-wing leader

11:04

in Ireland, and that's just to the

11:06

north of the General Post Office, which

11:08

was, of course, the very nexus of

11:10

the 1916 Easter Rising, which was the

11:12

first sort of military expression of an

11:14

Irish desire for freedom in 20th century.

11:16

So it's just a big post office

11:18

of the city, but very important in

11:20

the Irish independent story. Absolutely.

11:23

It was ground zero for the Rising.

11:25

And across the street from that used

11:27

to be a grand statue celebrating Admiral

11:30

Horatio Hornblower Nelson. Yes, which was blown to

11:32

smithereens in 1966 by the IRA. Wow.

11:36

And in its place was erected this

11:38

spire. It's a sleek stainless steel knife

11:41

that sticks into the sky. Yes, it was

11:43

erected originally for the occasion of the millennium,

11:45

although it was officially ... I think it

11:47

officially went up in 2003. 2004

11:49

actually. 2004, actually. It

11:51

missed the millennium. So at

11:54

the top of O'Connell Street, there's a garden with

11:56

a pool and a statue and a flag. And

11:58

to me, it's one of the most ... touching places in Dublin

12:01

to visit. How can we appreciate the Garden

12:03

of Remembrance? What does it mean to an

12:05

Irish mate? It's a beautiful, peaceful place. It

12:07

has a water feature in the shape of

12:10

a crucifix, which is

12:12

our nationalism was very Catholic nationalism. And

12:14

in the tiles on the floor of the

12:17

water feature, there are broken weapons. There are

12:19

old weapons, spears and arrows and so on.

12:21

So they're broken to show that conflict is

12:23

over. And at the head of

12:25

the, I think there's a magnificent statue of

12:28

the Children of Lear, which is one of the great

12:30

legends of Ireland of which there are numerous

12:32

mounts. And the Children of Lear is in

12:34

its own way about resurrection. Children

12:36

of Lear are condemned to be swans for

12:38

several hundred years, but eventually they come back

12:40

to life. This remembers the struggle,

12:43

the people who died, the treasure of

12:45

Irish independence. Yeah. And rising again. So

12:47

you have the Easter Rebellion at a

12:49

profoundly Christian time of the year at

12:51

Easter, and the Children of Lear represents

12:53

a resurrection as well from our ancient

12:55

history. The peace and the

12:57

success and the prosperity of Ireland is something

12:59

to celebrate. And when we go to Dublin, we

13:01

can certainly feel that. Kieran O'Hare,

13:03

Joe Darcy, thanks so much for a walk

13:06

through Dublin. Thanks, Rick. Thank you. We

13:11

have links to our guests in

13:13

each week's show notes at ricksteves.com/radio,

13:16

877-333-7425. That's

13:18

our number as we get ready to

13:20

explore the woolly Arran Island. But

13:23

first, Tim Egan tells us about one

13:25

remarkable Irish immigrant's journey to America on

13:27

travel with Rick Steves. A

13:31

million Irish men and women died during the

13:33

potato blight of the 1840s. Thomas Francis Marr

13:37

survived, only to be imprisoned by the

13:39

British rulers he fought against. He

13:42

eventually ended up in America, where he became

13:44

an American Civil War general, governor

13:46

of the Montana Territory, and one of the

13:48

best-known Irishmen of his day. Timothy

13:51

Egan explores his story in his best-selling

13:53

book, The Immortal Irishman, and what it

13:55

took for Irish immigrants to make a

13:57

new Ireland for themselves in the new

13:59

world. The. World Tim.

14:02

What? Did you discover about Thomas Francis

14:04

Mar that made you want to write

14:06

a book about him? Because you see

14:08

the entire almost entire Irish American story

14:10

in one man's life. He starts out

14:12

with the family great, devastating, the singular

14:14

crime of Britain, where you metre a

14:16

billion people starve to death. Another million

14:18

were forced to leave, leave, leave barefoot

14:20

peasants had never been more than thirty

14:22

miles from their villages. They wash ashore

14:24

in the United States then, and that's

14:26

a good percent of the entire population.

14:28

That's correct. That's correct means basically one

14:30

in four were called out. Arm and

14:32

then he sense to be hanged,

14:34

drawn and quartered and his remains

14:36

disposed of. As her majesty shall

14:39

see sit for his role in

14:41

and advocating of you're an independent

14:43

Ireland. His senses communities last minute

14:45

any sentenced life imprisonment in Tasmania.

14:47

Which. Is full of Irish refugees, they took

14:49

orphans off the street and they put all

14:51

the political prisoners on Tasmania for eighteen forties.

14:54

his center on a on a prison ship

14:56

all the while it has made it is

14:58

the smartest, most eloquent. he's totally we well

15:00

educated writer or on this one godforsaken to

15:02

them must have been a movie I thought

15:04

it was beautiful but they saw so far

15:07

away the selected dropped off the are a

15:09

that to escaped from Tasmania and comes to

15:11

the United States at the very point where

15:13

we're having pete immigration so experiences that then

15:15

we have our Civil war and some. Of

15:17

the Irish joined the South because they're afraid

15:20

all these freed slaves will take their crappy

15:22

jobs. but he sounds the Irish brigade and

15:24

fight at all the major wars of the

15:26

Civil War at elevates the image that Americans

15:29

have of Irishman because of their valor because

15:31

of their bravery. They were all the major

15:33

battles of the Civil war and the had

15:36

the second highest casualty rate of any other

15:38

regiments and finally ends up as a first

15:40

Governor of Territorial Montana's at he dies at

15:42

the age of forty six. All those episodes

15:45

any one of which could be one man's

15:47

life. Or in this person's what a

15:49

lighter when you don't even have. Modern.

15:51

Things that we take for granted to

15:54

enhance your life. I need to go

15:56

from one continent together with like an

15:58

epic journey exactly. Now. let's just

16:00

talk about the context here in

16:02

Ireland, mid-19th century, 1840s and so

16:04

on. At this time I understand

16:06

Dublin was like a respected partner

16:09

to London, the second city of the British Empire.

16:11

Well, that's the image the British would give you

16:13

because they had this thing called the Act of

16:15

Union which was a forced union with Ireland had

16:17

to join Britain. They were determined for almost 800

16:20

years to make the Irish English. And

16:22

so they passed a series of horrible

16:24

laws, the penal laws just basically tried

16:27

to erase all ethnicity. The

16:29

Statues of Kilkenny made it a crime to

16:31

have the wrong, to ride the wrong kind of a horse.

16:33

If a horse is worth more than five pounds you could

16:35

be imprisoned. Even the Irish grave was

16:37

regulated. So the Brits had done everything they could.

16:39

So they planted Protestants up in the most Catholic

16:41

part of the island up in the north. Exactly.

16:43

And ironically or whatever. And kicked people out of

16:46

their homes. So the most Catholic part becomes what

16:48

we think of as the indigenous Protestant part. But

16:50

it was created by London. And that's why you

16:52

still have tensions today because it was called the

16:54

Plantation of Ireland is what it was called. But

16:56

now the context of Marr is that it's the

16:58

Victorian age. He's very well educated. He's from

17:00

Waterford. He's a prince of Waterford. He's a good

17:02

looking guy. He speaks five languages. He's kind of

17:05

a Catholic elite. He comes from a wealthy family.

17:07

Most of the Catholics are starving. He's a Catholic

17:09

majority country. But he has this life ahead of

17:11

him that could be just easy, go to the

17:14

club, and then the famine hits. And

17:16

it radicalizes everyone because they see

17:18

this massive crime. They see food

17:21

leaving Irish ports. And Marr's cry

17:23

was, let Irish food raised by

17:25

Irish hands go into Irish mouths.

17:27

Great Britain, which then had the

17:30

largest empire on earth, one

17:32

quarter of the world's land mass had the

17:34

Union Jack flying over it. And the most

17:36

troublesome part of this vast empire was

17:39

30 miles away. Right there on the north deck. Also

17:42

this is the place where they were

17:44

exporting more food per capita than any

17:46

other place in the British Army while

17:48

people are starving to death, while little

17:51

children are chewing dandelions, while they're replacing

17:53

the bottoms of coffins. So it radicalizes

17:55

this Victorian gentleman, young Thomas

17:57

Francis Marney, leads the 18th... Hopefully

18:00

the eighteen Forty Eight rebellion came. When we

18:02

talk about the Irish Famine, I grew up

18:04

thinking, oh, the potato crop failed and these

18:07

poor Irish people starved. That says, they're kind

18:09

of. Comfortable. View of the

18:11

famine, but there really wasn't insidious sort

18:13

of first structure behind it and the

18:15

English. Knew. That there was more

18:17

than enough food there and they just wanted of

18:20

grow food for export. They now recognizes Britain at

18:22

least the government house if this was a crime

18:24

and it was also we didn't have this words

18:26

in but it was genocide. Did the Irish people

18:28

note at the time or was the thought was

18:30

this is an act of god and role of

18:32

our well as in Britain They said it was

18:34

an act of god this is the Irish families

18:36

were too big and this was at this is

18:39

a benevolent god calling the population. They said that

18:41

and they they let them starve they did some

18:43

cases didn't let food led to the ports. The

18:45

Cherokee nation. Are. Among the people who

18:47

set sued to the Irish during the famine

18:49

for time that ships boundless Cherokee nation corn

18:51

could not land in Dublin harbor and I

18:53

was on a panel ones where people said

18:55

oh you da my wrists Hutton, what are

18:57

you it was potatoes is it.you know it's

19:00

a monoculture like were so stupid all we

19:02

could do to protect well in fact a

19:04

family could see the self on a single

19:06

later of potatoes. But what happened was when

19:08

the putin across sales all these other cross

19:10

were around the Brits were systematically exporting them.

19:12

I should say also that this is the

19:14

kind of history that conceal touch. And see

19:16

when you go to Ireland. One of the

19:18

things that really moved me to tears and

19:21

and it may be because I'm a sentimental

19:23

Irishman was seeing a famine village in the

19:25

west of Ireland not far from Dingell. Yes

19:27

there was basically this little rock Hudson's you

19:29

can go in and see whether to fire

19:31

the earth and slower where people try to

19:33

boiled potatoes in and see the the burial

19:35

plot Outback or so you know you had

19:37

to bury half or your family and everyone's

19:39

and walked to the port to go to

19:41

America. Think I know where you are These

19:43

skeletal buildings they did actually just are haunted

19:45

with hunger and to stones. You right up

19:47

through the window in you see the

19:49

sky and then up on the high

19:51

on the slopes you see the corduroy

19:53

pattern. You took the plowed lines where

19:55

they planted them potatoes and they never

19:57

were harvest exactly And it's really stirring

19:59

because. You feel heartbreak is still the

20:01

hunger you feel the and I admire the

20:03

courage of those people who could get had

20:05

never gone muscle but never gone to Dublin

20:07

as night of the restaurants suddenly they're going

20:10

to get on what's called a coffin ship

20:12

because one in five Irish would not make

20:14

the journey alive. Timothy.

20:16

Egan is introducing us to a notable

20:19

nineteenth century Irish American right now and

20:21

travel with Rick Steves. He. Writes

20:23

about the legacy of Thomas Francis Mar

20:25

in his twenties. sixteen best singer the

20:27

Immortal. Tim's.

20:30

Also authored a pilgrimage to

20:32

Eternity was discovered about South

20:34

Africa while traveling the Medieval

20:37

pilgrim trail from Canterbury to

20:39

Roll. His. Latest title

20:41

is Sieber in the Heartland Ku

20:43

Klux Klan Plus to Take Over

20:46

America and the Woman who stops

20:48

him. His website is Timothy Egan

20:50

books.com. So.

20:52

This is the chance for you to

20:54

take all of this tumultuous story of

20:56

the Irish people and we've it in

20:58

to the life of Thomas Francis Smart

21:00

and Thomas Francis Mar Could have just

21:03

kept it easy with is rich father

21:05

in Waterford where they make that beautiful

21:07

Waterford crystal or he could get radicalised

21:09

and he was a leader and a

21:11

group called the Young Ireland Years Fighting

21:13

the The Act Of Union Yes, exactly

21:15

where he went to France in eighteen

21:17

Forty Two. It actually learn from one

21:19

of those revolutions and to try to

21:21

enlist the help of the French. As

21:23

well they ultimately didn't help. But important thing

21:25

that happened after that as he brought home

21:27

the idea for the Irish flag And so

21:29

it was orange on one side, green on

21:32

the other and white in the middle of

21:34

the signifying the Union of the Orange in

21:36

the green. So be the protestant English in

21:38

the can. Very excited it is they bleed

21:40

a unified Ireland that that we can all

21:43

live together but they could self govern. That

21:45

was a key thing. they weren't allowed to

21:47

self govern themselves. So today Waterford Thomas Mars

21:49

home has this scrape plaque the says home

21:51

of the Man. Who gave Ireland it's flag

21:54

up Million Celebrate bar for many reasons because

21:56

he had our favorite son and would John

21:58

F. Kennedy. Went to Ireland and night. Sixty

22:00

Three and spoke to the Irish Parliament. What was

22:02

one of the stories he told it was of

22:04

the Irish Brigade the Thomas Francis More had led

22:06

during the Civil War. Okay, so he's

22:09

banished for his political activity against London and

22:11

Tasmania. He actually escapes, and then he has

22:13

quite a life in America. Yes, oh, he's

22:15

is just as hero's welcome when he comes

22:18

ashore in New York City. Remember, All.

22:20

These immigrants are coming ashore in Philadelphia, Boston,

22:22

and New York and there's also accountable. But

22:24

to that, which was the Know Nothing movement,

22:26

This artist people were criminals. We get these

22:28

words like Paddy Wagon. They were the second

22:31

biggest political party, and Eighteen Fifty Four. And

22:33

and are we going to do with interesting

22:35

parallels to that? Well, that sucks at why.

22:37

You're right. That's why we love history. We

22:39

hear the echoes of history Know And what

22:41

I heard a lot of nearly immigration stuff

22:43

with a modern day was the echoes of

22:45

the Know Nothing Party. But someone Markham's for

22:48

sure he's rallying. These poor Irish should get.

22:50

Are living in this crowded. Ten of us

22:52

are not having good lives. they are selling

22:54

that you feel so good. I miss the

22:56

term Paddy Wagon. A hooligan was another word

22:58

that was created in United States that came

23:00

about because a hooligan diet just like a

23:02

jones exam thing and I are here so

23:04

I'm not in to glass it over. They

23:06

were poor and a lot of them were

23:08

criminals. More rallies them and says you can

23:10

have a greater cause and what is that?

23:12

Greater cause is fighting the slave holders in

23:14

the South where the Civil War comes. New.

23:16

York Times columnist Timothy Egan is telling

23:19

us about the remarkable story of Irish

23:21

emigrants Thomas Francis Mar which he writes

23:23

about in his book. The Immortal Irishman

23:25

Joshua was listening and from Bow in

23:28

New Hampshire joins us on the line

23:30

at eight, seven seven three three three

23:32

seven four to five. Ira tied them.

23:34

Thanks for taking my car, You bet

23:37

the have you had some my thoughts

23:39

about the this sort of Irish diaspora?

23:41

The impact of Irishman Head and United

23:43

States are more. actually. yes, I'm interested

23:46

in our Thomas. Mar because I'm a

23:48

history teacher here in New Hampshire and

23:50

every year in April I take a

23:52

group or with some other teachers on

23:54

a Civil War seemed trip. And.

23:57

We always go to an

23:59

Cheatham and I have family

24:01

from Ireland from County Carry

24:03

on the Ring of Carry.

24:05

So I've always been interested

24:07

in the Irish and their

24:09

contributions to our country. But

24:11

going on this trip at

24:13

Antietam has made me wonder

24:15

that not many Americans knew

24:18

about the. Irish. Brigade

24:20

and the contributions of the Irish

24:22

to our Civil War and artistry.

24:24

And I'm wondering to what extent

24:27

today do the Irish understand and

24:29

celebrate their contributions to our Civil

24:31

War? says. Well thank

24:33

you for doing this because written are both dig

24:36

leavers in history. We want to keep our stories

24:38

alive to point. We do this and tease him

24:40

as he knows the side of the worst casualties

24:42

in the history of America would never have a

24:44

greater loss of life and that one single day

24:47

in and t them. I also think Fredericksburg is

24:49

important In disgust To your question, Fredericksburg was where

24:51

the Irish Brigade there was a hundred thousand to

24:53

set up on the hill and one hundred thousand

24:55

and Union members down below. The job was to

24:57

go up the hill, try to take the hill

25:00

from them. And they said the

25:02

Irish Brigade as the spear of all

25:04

the other soldiers. Mar knew it was

25:06

going to be smarter. But. He told

25:08

his men is brigade to put a little

25:10

sprig of green under their caps and they

25:13

are more picked a little spring green he

25:15

says when they roll our bodies of room

25:17

don't know. We died his Irishman and it

25:19

was an utter slaughter. It broke more because

25:21

he pursued recruit most of these boys. He

25:24

knew their families universe, where they came from.

25:26

He knew what it meant for that and

25:28

it just mowed down. And when they turn

25:30

those bodies over the sound those sprigs of

25:33

green is very moving. I met John F.

25:35

Kennedy for Cyrus American President and that's the

25:37

story. that's. A specific story goes to your

25:39

questions to the Irish. Know this when he

25:42

spoke to the Irish Parliament. this is the

25:44

story that J F K told them knowing

25:46

it would resonate with an exact with story

25:48

of the boys who put the Spriggs marine

25:50

into the caps. Or it's good that Ireland

25:53

is aware of that because that is some

25:55

pretty impressive heroism for an immigrant community circling

25:57

Joshua. Thanks here cause. That's. All right

25:59

thing, them. Sure. This

26:02

is Traveler Rick Steves. We're talking with Tim Egan. His

26:04

book is The Immortal Irishman. Our phone number is 877-333-7425.

26:06

And Judy's calling

26:10

from Seattle. Do you have a thought about

26:12

Irish immigration and the impact Ireland has had

26:14

on on the world? Yes,

26:16

I've been enjoying the conversation and Irish

26:19

immigration brings to mind for me as one of

26:21

the great labor heroes. I come from a labor

26:24

family and I don't know if

26:26

you're familiar with the history of Mother Jones,

26:28

Mary Harris Jones. She was

26:30

a great labor leader and unlike some of

26:32

the martyrs Mr. Egan was talking about, she

26:35

lived to a ripe old age but in

26:37

the meantime she caused a lot of havoc.

26:40

Are you familiar with her or is Mr. Egan? Well,

26:42

I'm familiar with her as her place in history. I don't

26:45

know her story very well, her deep story. Well,

26:47

there are several books about her but I

26:49

just think she should be included in

26:52

the pantheon of the country women who came

26:54

and engaged in the

26:56

struggle for workers rights. She

26:58

founded the Social Democratic Party

27:00

and she helped establish the Industrial Workers

27:02

of the World which is a major,

27:05

still a major, workforce today. And

27:08

I was wondering if you would ever conceive

27:10

of writing about her. There's

27:13

so many great ghosts out there to chase down. I'll

27:15

tell you what, I'll make you a promise here on

27:17

the air. I will look into her story because I

27:19

only know her as you know kind of a bold-faced

27:21

name of history and I'm starting to

27:23

research some early parts of the 20th century and

27:25

she's popping up quite a bit. Judy,

27:27

thanks for your call. Thank you. Tim,

27:29

I want to just take a moment to talk

27:31

about where you traveled in Ireland to put this

27:34

book together because anybody who's fascinated by history in

27:36

Ireland has an amazing story. When

27:38

you travel the land just speaks to

27:40

you. What were some of the places

27:42

you went to that really had the

27:44

very rewarding impact in your work? This

27:46

truly as an Irish-American, my family's from

27:49

County Waterford where Mars from as well

27:51

was one of the most gratifying things I'd ever

27:54

done. You go to Ireland, you

27:56

go to hear trad music, you eat fresh food

27:58

in the West, People are friends. Liberty

28:00

Really know their history. Cab drivers will

28:02

tell you about the Daniel O'connell deliberate

28:05

or I'll tell you something about the

28:07

great sammis. They really know their history

28:09

Ireland also as you know some of

28:11

the main places that a visitor goes

28:14

to an island or shrines to martyrdom

28:16

or awfulness or misery. and you know

28:18

much of Irish history. most of my

28:20

sister is misery. I always stuff story

28:23

We wouldn't be Irish without our Korea

28:25

miseries. Our currency. So. One

28:27

of the most started places I went

28:29

was kill main of jail in Dublin.

28:31

Now the castle which is still there

28:33

and most prominent tourist site in Ireland

28:35

or in Dublin is where the British

28:37

aristocracy, the British military. It's the adults

28:39

larger garrison in Ireland than they ever

28:41

had in India, so they always had

28:43

at least ten thousand soldiers are. The

28:45

castle represented everything but occupation he didn't

28:48

like and a cast was right there.

28:50

in. downtown is right there in downtown

28:52

and you can go either walk and

28:54

see all those. This is British nearby

28:56

but a mile. Or so away is the

28:58

tools they built to mean I'm jail. Only.

29:00

When I sat in one of the

29:03

cells and looked out assault limestone I

29:05

member of Marwan seen it seemed stone

29:07

themselves were weeping. Does Ireland's such a

29:09

misty wet place and the limestone tends

29:12

to be porous. I sat

29:14

marcel and awaiting death. He will. He

29:16

dashed off his poetry and all these

29:18

letters. He was such an effervescent twenty

29:20

four years old, so to go to

29:22

kill me them. Jail is quite extraordinary

29:24

and then I urge people to go

29:27

to Waterford. It's often not visited. It's

29:29

worth a day or two. It's Mars

29:31

Town and it's on the River is

29:33

glorious. This is the south east corner

29:35

viral southeast corner of Ireland and Mars

29:37

home is now the Granville Hotel and

29:40

it has I think five or seven

29:42

rooms in there. They're all. The

29:44

bet you could see the life of luxury.

29:46

Had the tapestry and go to the museum.

29:48

The same statue that started my journey Rick

29:50

I was in Helena, Montana many years ago

29:53

and their says try to question statue of

29:55

an Irishman with these words of sedition written

29:57

at the base and I said as a

29:59

governor. Hey, who's the guy on the horse?"

30:02

And he says, you call yourself an Irish American

30:04

and you don't know who Thomas Francis Marr is.

30:07

That same statue is in Waterford now.

30:10

So they put it up. And you see these

30:12

giant banners that now say, welcome to Waterford, home

30:15

of Thomas Francis Marr. This is

30:17

Travel with Rick Steves. We've been talking with

30:19

Tim Egan, and his book is The Immortal

30:21

Irishman, the Irish revolutionary who became an American

30:24

hero. Tim, if we can

30:26

just wrap it up, how might we draw

30:28

inspiration from the history that you share in

30:30

your book? Well, you know, history sort

30:32

of echoes around different eras. It goes

30:34

quiet for a while, and then it

30:36

reappears. And I think in the present

30:38

moment in the United States that we're

30:40

living through, you see so much of

30:43

the stuff that Marr fought for, the

30:45

basic concept of immigrants being able

30:47

to become Americans. How did they become Americans

30:49

in this country? They fought and died and

30:51

that truly made them. But they had to

30:53

fight horrible prejudice. All the things

30:55

you hear as people say about certain members

30:57

of society today were said about the first

30:59

great wave of immigrants, which were the Irish.

31:02

Also the pure power of

31:05

resilience. I wrote a book about the

31:07

Dust Bowl as well, and it strikes me that parallel to the

31:09

famine that these are tragedies. And

31:12

the famine was a horrible tragedy, and it

31:14

lives deep in our bones right now. But

31:16

it's also the tale of the human spirit

31:19

and the resilience. I'm here today talking to

31:21

you, because my old man, I mean, my

31:23

great-great-grandfather, I'm famine Irish on my father's side.

31:26

Somebody got up and walked with bare feet to come

31:28

through here. And you've taken the initiative to

31:30

learn about it and to share it. Tim

31:33

Egan, thank you so much and look forward to future

31:35

work of yours. Thank you.

31:40

Tim Egan explores the Irish immigration

31:42

to the US and Australia in

31:44

a website extra to today's show.

31:47

You can hear it at ricksteves.com-slash-radio.

31:50

Up next, find out how you can

31:52

feel Irish history all around you on

31:54

the wind-blowing Aran Islands. We're at

31:56

877-333-RICK. To

32:00

visit a place rich in Irish

32:02

archaeology, history, and traditions, I recommend

32:05

you actually leave the Emerald Isle.

32:07

Head out to sea to one of the three

32:10

Aran Islands. They're home to

32:12

historical and sacred sites, many of them from

32:14

the age of saints and scholars and even

32:16

earlier. Handmade stone walls

32:18

and a heavy, hand-knit sweater may be

32:20

your only protection against the elements. The

32:24

islands are known as Inishmore, Inishman,

32:26

and Inishier, and they guard the

32:28

entrance to Galway Bay. The

32:30

price of admission might just be a

32:32

bumpy ferry ride. Our guides

32:34

to the Aran Islands are Irish tour guides

32:36

Stephen McPhilemy and Peter Byrne. Thanks very much.

32:39

Great to be here. Stephen McPhilemy,

32:41

what is special about the Aran Islands? There's a

32:43

lot of islands you could go to. Why would

32:46

somebody take the trouble of going from Galway way

32:48

out into the Atlantic to visit the Aran Islands?

32:50

Well, I think the fact that you're taking the trouble, there is a bit

32:53

of trouble to get there. It's not all

32:55

that straightforward, like many islands. So there's

32:57

a sense of adventure about it. Galway

32:59

is the nearest big city. There's a lot

33:01

of visitors there, and there's a bit of

33:03

excitement about, let's go to the Aran Islands.

33:06

You're out in the Atlantic. There's

33:08

three islands there. Population's only 1,200.

33:11

If any of you are listening to a preconception

33:13

that Ireland was where people had thatched cottages and

33:16

rode donkeys and wore iron sweaters and

33:18

spoke Irish, well, the Aran Islands is

33:20

exactly that. That is it. So true.

33:23

1,200 people. There's a lot of life

33:25

out there. But at the same time, it's moving into

33:27

the new century now, and it's dealing with all sorts

33:30

of problems as well, because the people are quite isolated

33:32

out there. A lot of the young people don't

33:34

want to stay there. They're in Chicago, or

33:36

they're in Galway, or they're in Dublin. Island

33:39

life is hard, and it's very important for us as

33:41

a nation to sustain and support

33:44

our island communities. Does the government

33:46

actually subsidize living there in any way?

33:49

Government would subsidize living there through many

33:51

different projects. They have a

33:53

state-of-the-art new marina there for the fishing

33:55

boats to dock because these fishermen were

33:57

having to dock in Galway. And

34:00

if this community is to survive, Irish speaking families

34:02

have to live on the island, they have to

34:04

have the facility, so they got a, I think

34:06

it was 30 million euro or something spent by

34:09

the Irish government just to sustain and keep the island

34:11

community alive. So there would be Irish citizens who wouldn't

34:13

agree with that, they think that's a waste of money.

34:16

Well, a bit too big a splurge. Yeah. But

34:18

remember, there's the Irish language aspect of this

34:20

too. They speak Irish genuinely on the island,

34:22

and if the Irish language is to be

34:24

kept alive, we have to put resources

34:26

into it. And the island

34:28

life, if it's to be kept alive, they need

34:30

to have resources as well. Peter Byrne, 1200 people

34:32

living on these three little islands, it's pretty bleak.

34:35

I mean, there's hardly a tree on the islands.

34:37

How can you find some charm there? What would

34:39

reward you if you took a visitor there? Well,

34:41

I think what's spectacular about it is there's a

34:43

place on it that's known as Dunangith. And

34:46

this goes back to BC times. I don't know how

34:48

people like to describe it, but the first of these

34:50

forts started turning up around 500 BC. This

34:54

one in particular is a stone fort, and

34:56

what makes it exceptionally powerful is that it's

34:58

bordered on the sea. You can't attack it

35:00

from the seaward side. That

35:02

shows you that people have lived here in that same

35:04

simple fashion for all that amount of time. Over

35:07

2000 years, roughly. Over 2000 years, yeah. And

35:09

they built this fort, and it's literally on a cliff. It might be

35:11

200 feet above the sea. It's

35:13

on a cliff face, but we've got to remember

35:15

that most of these forts were in actual fact

35:17

dwellings. They needn't necessarily be achieved, and it could

35:19

be the head of a family. But

35:22

they'd be trying to protect their wares. They'd be trying

35:24

to protect their animals. But more importantly, it

35:26

shows you that there was also a threat from the sea even

35:28

back 2000 years ago. So

35:31

they protected themselves from attack from the sea by putting it

35:33

at the edge of a cliff. Now we all think that

35:35

pirates and these guys didn't turn up to the 17th and

35:37

18th century, but

35:39

we've evidence in Ireland that even possibly

35:41

as far as 3,000 years, there was

35:44

people turning up in little phases in

35:46

Ireland. It didn't make any sense. There

35:48

were humble communities of farmers and families

35:50

that would gather together, and then make

35:52

a stone fortification on the cliff 200

35:55

feet above the raging Atlantic

35:57

surf. And then even from the sea,

35:59

they were all the island side Stephen when you

36:01

when you approach it you find defenses

36:04

built into the rocks don't you? Absolutely

36:06

all three islands have got loads of

36:08

great archaeological sites sometimes there

36:10

are tour guides in Ireland who don't

36:12

like the hassle of leaving Galway and going out on

36:14

the ferry because it can be pretty bumpy I've gone

36:17

out there probably a hundred times and

36:19

on maybe two occasions it was like that

36:21

movie The Greatest Storm or The Perfect Storm

36:23

yeah it was rough so some

36:25

tour guides as a result don't like going out

36:27

there so they call it Alcatraz and it's completely

36:29

unfair because the island has got

36:31

so much archaeology we're talking there about

36:33

Dun Angus there's also a feature there

36:35

called Paul Napest it's called the wormhole

36:38

and they did some cliff diving there like world

36:40

cliff diving it's just spectacular

36:42

now most visitors to the Ireland islands

36:44

don't go here because you have to

36:47

get way off the beaten path in fact they're not

36:49

even a beaten path so you're going way over the

36:51

rocks and you come to this it's basically like an

36:54

a ledge of limestone and it looks like

36:56

the ancient gods have carved a swimming pool

36:59

in the rock it's a perfect rectangle

37:01

and every time the waves come in

37:03

it just gushes up and sprays into

37:06

the air and it's just magnificent and

37:08

the locals have claimed there used to be

37:11

a serpent you know a sea monster in

37:13

there so that's why it's called Paul Napest

37:15

the pool of the the ancient sea worm

37:17

it's a strange anomaly it's an incredible anomaly

37:20

well you weren't the viewer it is and

37:22

it's almost like a lunar landscape out there

37:24

it is so bleak and yet there's civilization

37:26

because I remember meeting a farmer that

37:29

would take us and they have this wonderful

37:31

way of restacking their their fences right what is

37:33

the deal with that they don't have gates no

37:35

well what they do is this free-standing stone walls

37:37

and the incredible thing in the islands is this

37:40

is about 93 miles of stone

37:43

walls on those three islands it's

37:45

incredible so what they do then

37:47

if they're moving from one area to the other to save

37:49

the grazing they will take down a section

37:51

of the stone wall to allow the animals through

37:53

and put it back up again and it's an

37:55

art it is not just anybody can do

37:58

it it's a dying art to be honest Now

38:00

just from a practical point of view, there's three

38:02

ways to get to these Aran Islands that I've

38:04

done. We can go fly from Galway, you

38:07

can take the big commuter boat from, what's

38:09

the port? From Rassaville, yeah, so it's in

38:11

Connemara, about an hour from Galway. So you

38:13

take the bus from Galway to Rassaville and

38:16

then it's a pretty reliable big fast

38:18

boat. And then there's more of a rustic ship, isn't

38:20

there, from Dulin? From Dulin, you can go from Dulin

38:23

or you can go from Rassaville. Most people would probably

38:25

go from Rassaville, I would imagine, and then you can

38:27

fly. If you do happen to be

38:29

thinking of flying, I think it might only be

38:31

a tan seater. This is not

38:33

fair. I did it and it's fascinating. It was really

38:35

a... It's a case of up and straight down again.

38:37

It's a 15 minute ride basically. The

38:40

thing with Dulin is, what would attract people

38:42

to Dulin, maybe a little bit more to

38:44

travel, it's very much hostel orientated and down

38:46

in Dulin you've got the traditional music and

38:48

the Utah store. Yeah. So backpackers

38:50

and everything. And it's also the back door

38:52

to going around by the cliffs and more.

38:54

So travelling from there is an adventure. What

38:56

we were saying about rough water, oh my

38:58

goodness, coming from Dulin is fun. Yeah.

39:01

So if you want to be a little more, let's say

39:04

less adventurous and you're not wanting to feel

39:06

the waves, you can take the bigger ship

39:08

from Rassapenna. But it's

39:10

fabulous if you've got sea legs. This

39:12

is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with

39:14

Stephen McPhelamy and Peter Byrne. And we're talking

39:16

about the Arran Islands, A-R-A-N off the west

39:18

coast of Ireland. Our phone number is 877-333-7425.

39:23

And Erin is calling in from Pittsburgh,

39:25

Pennsylvania. Erin, thanks for your call. My

39:29

husband and I spent four nights on

39:31

the Arran Islands for our honeymoon in

39:34

October. And we absolutely fell in

39:36

love with it. We had plans to

39:38

go for just one night on our first trip

39:40

from Dulin and we didn't make it because of

39:42

the ferry. So we went back for four nights

39:45

and it was one of the

39:47

most beautiful places that I've ever been. What

39:50

we loved about it was that we had all this time

39:52

to hike that we wouldn't have

39:54

had on a day trip. Yeah, I

39:57

think that's vital. I would say to my

39:59

shame, I've never... She stayed overnight out there have

40:01

been order to throw injured or his tour group and

40:03

then turbo of here and I have a good friend

40:05

out there who owns a hostile on the island that

40:07

I have good friends who want to be in be

40:09

in there are always saying can only tell me all

40:11

the stories about the night before when I'm out there

40:13

the sent all the the fun we had here last

40:15

night and then I mean people who have the time

40:17

to go there and they go hiking like you've done

40:19

and they'd say it's one of the highlights of Ireland.

40:21

Maybe one of the top three places in the country.

40:23

So Aaron did you stand there in the big town?

40:25

Kill Ronan? Know we actually I

40:27

caught him last year and bearing on

40:30

he recommended that we stand for Murray

40:32

House Income Rv and we just that.

40:34

We were a little worried about it

40:36

because it's like an an accounting to

40:39

run and but it was actually wonderful

40:41

because they were drivers. Can still running

40:43

for dinner every night and it's a

40:45

sad but then we were staying basically

40:48

Asus for a stunning that has he

40:50

has It's beautiful. You are able to

40:52

get up there at sunset by ourselves.

40:54

The funny thing and it's just. That

40:57

much more bleak and start and you'd

40:59

have are staying a little bit further

41:01

out. So tell me about being

41:03

on Aaron Island. After hours when know

41:06

but none of the tourist or there in the

41:08

evening. Over there in October

41:10

are starting to get dark little

41:12

bit earlier, so we noticed even

41:15

more in the morning before the

41:17

shift that area would arise, that

41:19

it was just very quiet and

41:22

we could go anywhere that we

41:24

wanted. and we'd only. Ago. People.

41:27

Pretty. Much before eleven am and we're kind

41:29

of an anomaly what are to Americans

41:31

during staying here for us for night

41:33

for everyone kept asking why are here

41:35

to and we told them that we

41:37

wanted types to they sent us on

41:39

all kinds of sex with know the

41:41

ones that the wormhole that one of

41:43

your guys mentioned and my favorite hate

41:45

was to the black for. Where

41:48

you basically hike up to the end of

41:50

a task and then climb over one of

41:52

the stone walls and then follow along the

41:54

coast. And so you get to sort. and

41:57

it's right on the edge of the pledge like

41:59

that anger is, but you have to

42:01

actually walk up almost to the very edge

42:03

of the cliff to get around inside of

42:05

it. You have to get within four feet

42:07

of the edge of the cliff to go

42:09

around the wall and get inside the fort,

42:12

which we did. That would frighten me.

42:14

I was terrified. My husband thought it was

42:16

the greatest adventure ever, and I think I

42:19

followed him just to be sure that he

42:21

didn't fall off the edge of the cliff.

42:23

You know, when I get to one of those cliffs, you've

42:25

got to think of this as like a slate surface, and

42:27

then it plunges straight down 200 feet. I

42:30

remember laying down on the rock, wishing I

42:33

was a human suction cup, because I get

42:35

these freaky ideas that, oh, gust of wind

42:37

is going to blow me into the sea,

42:39

and I creep towards the edge. I

42:41

get to the edge with all four of my

42:43

limbs trying to grip this flat stone, and then

42:45

I look out and I look straight down. I'm

42:48

looking down at seagulls, and it's just me and

42:50

the wind and the ocean, and there's nothing

42:53

between there and Boston. I mean,

42:55

it's just vast ocean. Then I'm

42:57

surrounded by this prehistoric stone fort,

43:00

and it's one of the most dramatic experiences

43:02

a traveler can have. To do that before

43:04

the crowds hit, like you did, Erin, getting

43:06

there before the incoming tide of tourists at

43:08

11 in the morning, that must have been

43:10

dramatic. It was really incredible,

43:12

one of the best things that we did.

43:15

Actually, outside of Kilronan and outside

43:17

of Diningas, even in the middle of

43:19

the day, we hardly ran into any

43:22

tourists. One day we

43:24

biked even further out from

43:26

Kilronan beyond Kilmervy, and

43:28

we didn't really have a map. It

43:30

was after the tourist season, so the one that you

43:32

and everyone else recommends was sold out. So

43:35

we were just told, take your water, and if

43:37

you get lost, knock on someone's door, they'll give

43:39

you a glass of water and directions back. That's

43:42

so Irish. If you get lost, knock on

43:44

someone's door. I love it. Hey, Erin, did

43:46

you notice that when the boats came in,

43:48

there were minibuses waiting to take the day

43:50

trippers on three-hour tours on their minibus with

43:52

a local farmer as the driver guide? Yes,

43:55

and we actually took one of them as

43:57

a taxi to the A&B the first day.

44:00

And he offered to pick us back up and take

44:02

us on the tour, but we decided not to. The

44:04

crossing was really rough, so we weren't feeling very well.

44:07

But by the way, those are wonderful characters, and you

44:09

just get a feeling like you got a friend and

44:11

you're driving around in the middle of nowhere and they

44:13

tell you stories. It's quite nice. We used

44:15

to have a guy who took us around called

44:17

Tomasso, too. Unfortunately, he's passed on now,

44:19

but we had so many great stories from

44:21

him. He had spent many years in the

44:23

US Navy. He would tell us about his

44:25

time in the Navy, and he'd tell us about the time when he

44:28

was a kid on the Iron Islands. And they'd go out in those

44:30

traditional boats, which is called a kuruk, which is

44:32

a timber frame with a cow skin stretched

44:34

over it. And I remember one day standing,

44:36

looking at the ocean, it was a particularly rough day, and I said, could

44:39

you imagine being out there in a boat? He said, I used to be

44:41

out there in a kuruk. I used to go out there

44:43

fishing in this boat. It's

44:46

like a clumsy canoe, basically. Yeah, it's super

44:48

dangerous. And many of them, sadly, they'd lose

44:50

their lives. There's a lot of

44:52

tragedies on the Iron Islands with the fishermen drowning.

44:54

The only thing you could use and what makes

44:56

them more remarkable is its paddle power. But

44:59

unlike Oars, it's just like a pole, and they're out

45:01

in the middle of the Atlantic, and they would transfer

45:03

sheep back and forth from the mainland, young

45:05

cows back and forth from the mainland. So this is how

45:07

they would bring their sheep in the coast to market? It

45:09

was the only thing, because it was the late 1900s before

45:12

we had engines that would fit small enough, and this was

45:14

a natural way of life. There must have been a lot

45:16

of widows. There was, but that's

45:18

the way it goes. The thing

45:20

about it is, it also could be

45:22

said that the first ever CSI investigations

45:24

went on in the Iron Islands, because

45:26

everybody's heard about iron sweaters. The iron sweaters.

45:29

The iron sweaters. Heavy wool

45:31

sweaters. Heavy wool. Now, these families all knitted

45:33

their own patterns. The lady of the house

45:35

would knit the patterns for her husband and her sons,

45:37

and obviously the daughters as well, because it was very

45:39

warm in the wind and the damp air over there.

45:42

But when they were out in the boats fishing, and if they

45:44

fell overboard, it was like having a ton weight.

45:46

They were gone, instantly. Also

45:49

these bodies might not turn up for quite some time,

45:51

having been in the sea, but when they did eventually

45:53

wash ashore, you could look at the pattern and identify

45:55

the body that way. You knew what

45:57

family was from. And you knew what family was from. That's the pattern.

46:00

Thanks for your call. Thank you. We're

46:02

exploring the rugged Arran Islands off the west coast

46:04

of Ireland right now on Travel with Rick Steves.

46:07

Our guides are Stephen McPhilemy, who also

46:09

operates the Miltown House B&B on Ireland's

46:12

Dingle Harbor, and Peter Byrne comes to

46:14

us from Dublin. He's a

46:16

driver and a guide for custom small group

46:18

tours. Terry's calling

46:20

in from Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. Terry thanks for

46:22

your call. Hi. Well,

46:25

my husband and I had gone to Innismore

46:27

a few years ago, and it

46:30

was one of my favorite places

46:32

in Ireland, and really because of

46:34

how beautiful and rugged it was,

46:36

but also we spent two nights

46:38

there like Arran did, and

46:41

it was amazing how quiet it

46:43

was. I have never been to

46:45

any place where it was more quiet at night,

46:47

and it

46:49

was amazing. I want to do that.

46:52

I mean, like Stephen said, most of us tour guides, we

46:54

go in with the groups in the day, and then we

46:56

go back to Galway that night, spend the night. It

46:58

was great, and we also rode bikes

47:00

around and all, but again, it was

47:02

nighttime after most of the tourists

47:04

had left, and we went for a long

47:07

walk. You didn't even hear birds because there's

47:09

so few trees. It was just amazing,

47:11

so we loved it. But I guess

47:13

my question is, we enjoyed it so

47:15

much. I'd like to go back again.

47:18

We rode bikes. We went

47:20

up to the fort and did some

47:22

hiking. Is there any other things that

47:24

you would recommend so I can

47:26

entice my husband to go back again? Well,

47:28

the only thing about it is it's of

47:30

a limited size. It's an island, and

47:33

a very small island, but one of the things

47:35

that you did mention was cycling. It's an absolutely

47:37

terrific place for cycling around. The main character to

47:39

try and dangle in front of them might be

47:42

that there's two other islands as well. Yeah,

47:44

because Kerry mentioned Innis More, which is the big

47:46

island. There's Innis Man and Innis

47:49

Ear. A lot of visitors

47:51

to Ireland will go to the main sites, and then

47:53

you'll have a hardcore elite

47:55

who will go to the Arran Islands, but they don't go

47:57

to the Arran Islands. They go to Innis More. So

48:00

like the real navy seals of tourists

48:02

to Ireland would go to Inish Man

48:04

or Inish Eyre. You mentioned 1200 people live in

48:06

the Aran Islands. I understand about two-thirds of those

48:09

are living on Inish Moor. So these islands are

48:11

just a handful of people, a couple hundred people.

48:13

And you'll find B&Bs. On

48:15

the other two islands there's B&Bs and restaurants. There's

48:17

one restaurant out there that's got a great name,

48:19

Reputation now, and it's booked out months in advance.

48:22

There's the same great archaeology, ring forts

48:24

and standing stones. Two thousand year old

48:27

reminders that people have been there for a long time.

48:30

Terry, thanks for your call. Thank you.

48:33

Donna's calling from a town called Delaware in Ohio.

48:35

Donna, thanks for your call. Thank

48:37

you, Rick. Golly, it's been 17

48:39

years since my husband and I visited

48:41

on Inish Moor. We just happened

48:43

to do a day trip there. And

48:46

as Rick mentioned, there were many, many, many

48:48

buses there waiting for us. And it's just

48:50

a matter of picking one and hoping

48:53

that you have a good guide and a good

48:55

driver. And we did. And

48:58

of course we stopped at Dunangus and

49:00

several other places. And it

49:02

was about a three hour tour, like

49:04

Rick had mentioned. How

49:06

touristy have the islands gotten

49:08

in the past 16 years?

49:11

Well, believe it or not, they're a big

49:13

draw for younger people. A really seriously

49:15

big draw. One time young people would

49:17

gravitate towards Galway or some of the

49:19

cities like this. But now it's become

49:21

a big thing that young people, it's

49:23

a very good university town now in

49:26

Galway. And there's a lot of Americans attend the university

49:28

there too. So these people

49:30

go out and it's young, it's vibrant. You

49:32

get a lot of planned

49:34

events, particularly off season with these young people. So when

49:37

they get their friends in the summer, they go out.

49:39

It's not a problem to see so many young people.

49:41

It's absolutely terrific. But it would be a huge difference

49:43

from when you thought. It'd be

49:45

almost a cultural shock. You'd be so delighted to

49:48

see these people out here. Well, that brings it

49:50

life. And that's encouraging because as in so many

49:52

cases, the young people are leaving to the big

49:54

cities, I think, as Stephen mentioned earlier. And there's

49:57

reason for this remote corner of Ireland to stay

49:59

in the city. stay vital. Donna,

50:01

thanks for your call. Thank you, Rick. Bye-bye.

50:03

I know. You know, this conversation has reminded me how

50:05

important it is when you're going to go all the

50:08

way to Ireland to do a little

50:10

studying and go one step further than the

50:12

mainstream. And if you like Irish culture in

50:14

so many ways, it seems like you'll find

50:16

it in the extreme when you go to

50:18

the Arran Islands off the west coast of

50:20

Ireland, a jump on the

50:22

plane or a short bus ride and boat ride

50:24

from Galway. Peter Byrne, Stephen McPhelamy,

50:27

thanks for joining us. Thanks,

50:29

Rick. Travel with

50:31

Rick Steves is produced by Tim

50:33

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