0:06

Welcome to trillions.

0:06

I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Balchunis.

0:11

Awards season Eric at ETF dot

0:14

Com. I didn't know that this exists,

0:16

but every year there are ETF

0:19

industry awards.

0:20

Yeah.

0:21

ETF dot Com was once known

0:23

as Index Universe. They're kind of the ogs

0:25

of being on top of the ETF industry in my opinion,

0:28

and ETF dot Com has ETF

0:30

Awards and yours truly

0:33

is a judge.

0:33

I think I've been a judge for two or three years.

0:36

So it's kind of fun getting to vote

0:39

that. The nominees are all logical

0:41

to me. Every now and then one squeezes in that's

0:43

like the indie feel good hit of the year. Then

0:45

there's some of the more standard ones. It's really

0:47

a lot like the Oscars, to be honest with you, and

0:50

usually there's a there's a surprise or two, there's

0:52

a Lifetime Achievement Award, Best New

0:54

ETF, Best Ticker.

0:57

It's really fun.

0:57

You know, most people when they hear that, they're like, come

1:00

on, there's an ETF Awards show,

1:02

and of course there is, yeah, but this

1:04

industry just it just feels right for this industry

1:07

for me, so I get it and I think it's fun.

1:09

So we're gonna go through just a handful,

1:11

a couple of handfuls of the

1:14

recipients, the award winners

1:17

and joining us from ETF dot com. We've got Kristin

1:19

Myers who's the editor in chief,

1:21

and Lucy Rooster, the financi reporter

1:25

best time on Trillions. And

1:27

the winner is Kristin

1:31

Lucy Welcome to Trillions.

1:32

Thanks so much for having us, Thank you for having us.

1:35

Okay, how many years has

1:37

this been happening?

1:39

So the awards have been happening ten

1:41

years running, but this is about

1:43

the second or third awards, I would

1:45

say, really since we kind of had this huge

1:48

brand relaunch of ETF dot com.

1:50

Okay, and there's there's

1:52

a ton of categories, seventeen different categories.

1:55

We're going to go over ten

1:58

or so. I think how

2:00

many finalists were there?

2:02

Nominee nominees, So

2:04

we got about seventeen hundred

2:07

nominees if I remember it definitely was

2:09

over fourteen hundred.

2:11

Is it just people nominating themselves?

2:12

Though you can nominate yourself, you can only

2:14

nominate yourself once, So we do actually strip out

2:16

the multiple nominations that do inevitably

2:19

come up. And then we as the

2:21

editorial team, whittled that down to eighty

2:23

five finalists essentially, and

2:26

then we kicked it over to Eric and

2:28

six other judges who took that eighty five

2:30

and brought that list down to seventeen.

2:32

I had to have been pretty desperate for Eric to get

2:34

invited back.

2:35

I just voted for my friends. Yeah, I

2:37

really try to be objective.

2:39

And Bloomberg, by the way, was nominated for a couple

2:41

of these categories. Well just one one.

2:43

You abstained from that category. Yeah,

2:46

and we got shut out. So giving

2:48

away.

2:48

Shutouts a little rough. I don't know how many of the six

2:50

Voueah, we didn't get that. We didn't get that aword.

2:52

Okay, all right, that was the disclaimer. Okay,

2:55

we're going to start with best New

2:57

Active ETF and we're going to go

2:59

kind of like reverse to end

3:01

with ETF of the Year. So

3:04

best New Active ETF. I don't is that like

3:06

the best Supporting actress or something?

3:08

Maybe Eric, I'd say, so, Yeah, this is a this is a This

3:10

is a big one because active is the big deal. The

3:12

whole industry is just loving that active is getting

3:15

popular. To me, this is one of the hotter

3:17

categories, and who won.

3:18

That, Lucy, Yeah, absolutely, the

3:20

Best New Active ETF went to the AB

3:23

Disruptors ETF ticker f

3:26

w D And yeah, as we all know, AI

3:29

was a huge story of the past year,

3:31

so it made sense they won. But it was a

3:33

competitive category. I mean, Panagram

3:36

was nominated there, uh ETF

3:39

ticker cls o Z the Fidelity

3:42

Disruptive Technology ETF fd

3:44

t X. Yeah, but the

3:46

winner was the AB Disruptor.

3:49

And you all don't know how close this was.

3:52

We don't, and I should because people ask

3:54

me this question and have asked this question

3:56

quite a lot. We obviously know why

3:59

we took the list down from more than

4:01

one thousand down to eighty five, but

4:03

when it comes to the final five noms

4:06

in any of the categories, because we have about five

4:08

in every single category, we actually

4:10

don't know how the judges are actually voting.

4:12

What makes one ETF or one

4:15

fund really kind of clinch

4:17

that top spot over another one. So Eric,

4:19

I'm actually curious to know when you're looking

4:21

at a category like best Active, Best

4:23

New Active, what is something

4:26

that kind of stands out to you above the others.

4:28

I try to look for something that's either novel

4:32

pushes the envelope in something like

4:34

this because active is sort of a newer space,

4:37

or if something punches

4:39

a little above its weight, maybe it's more organic

4:42

the flows rather than say just because they have a lot

4:44

of distribution. So I tend

4:46

to not vote for like the comic

4:48

book movies. If you will, you know, I'm not going to

4:50

vote for the Marvels or whatever

4:53

for Best Picture. That's not my style. So

4:55

I try to I do try to reward innovation

4:59

and sort of indie

5:01

breakthrough, and then

5:03

every now and then something's just so powerful

5:06

that you have to just be like, yeah, I

5:08

can't deny that, even if it is the big guy.

5:11

What did you think of this class of nominee in this one?

5:13

I can't remember who I voted for, but I will say

5:15

this ab disruptors and fidelity

5:18

disruptives. I mean, Kathy Wood has to be loving this

5:20

because these are really she really

5:22

blazed that path, and she used to

5:24

work at Alion Spurnstein. In fact,

5:26

they wouldn't launch an ETF back when she was there,

5:28

so she left to start her own shop. They finally launched

5:30

one, I guess better late

5:32

than ever, So I think she gets a win

5:34

there, and then to me, the most

5:37

interesting one probably is the clo clos

5:40

are interesting. They have that bad reputation

5:42

from the financial crisis, but they

5:44

have a lot of really good attributes

5:46

for a portfolio. They were one of the

5:48

best fixed income performers last year.

5:50

Lowvall.

5:52

I'm just not sure how much advisors understand

5:54

them, but that is a hot little

5:56

area there, so I

5:59

like that some like that gets in there. I like that it's

6:01

not all of the big companies, which the other companies are

6:03

real big. Panagram is like total

6:06

indie.

6:07

And Panagram actually pops up a couple

6:09

of times, and the in the final NOAMS

6:11

list. Actually, when it came to this year's awards,

6:14

they did pretty well for an indie shop. They've

6:16

made a really strong showing this year.

6:17

Little Miss Sunshine hmm okay,

6:20

well let's see if they uh Napoleon Diner

6:22

few somewhere else.

6:24

Best New US Equity ETF.

6:27

Who is the winner in this category? Lucy?

6:29

Yeah, So I announced this category and

6:32

the Fidelity Disruptive Technology

6:34

ETF take our FDTX

6:36

one and that was actually

6:38

converted from a mutual fund in twenty

6:40

twenty three, so it was technically a

6:42

new ETF.

6:43

And that's kind of an interesting

6:46

little asterisk there. I guess like it technically

6:48

is a new ETF. Yes, and we've been talking about

6:51

conversions forever.

6:51

Yeah, it's more like it was born on third

6:54

base.

6:54

Yeah. Yeah, And you know it

6:57

was interesting. I was up there announcing

6:59

it and and there were some

7:01

booze in the audience when we announced

7:04

the winner of this ETF, which was definitely

7:06

interesting.

7:08

So a couple theories there. I

7:10

know John Davey was there.

7:11

Maybe it was him because the story was on this list John's

7:14

New Yorker, you know, I could see him sort

7:16

of maybe getting there, and

7:19

Rex and Roundhill DMO was in that

7:21

category two. But there's a story

7:24

kind of circulating that Fibility is charging

7:26

a new like a surcharge for ETF

7:29

isshuers, sort of like a fee to be on its platform,

7:32

and it has kind of irritated some of.

7:34

The smaller issuers.

7:35

So it's pretty possible

7:37

that that was them expressing

7:39

their displeasure. But I will say drama,

7:42

I think, yeah, reward show.

7:44

They need that.

7:45

You know, Ricky Gervais was so

7:47

good for the Golden Globes. He made stuff really

7:49

kind of and then Will Smith punch

7:52

slapping Chris Rock. You need these moments,

7:54

I think at an award show. So I'm

7:56

sure fatility didn't like it, but I think it's good for you to

8:00

that level. But sure, yeah, drama.

8:03

This is the I don't know the only amount of kind of

8:05

drama you could expect from ETF, dot commo

8:07

wars. Well, like the Oscar.

8:10

You're going to there was you

8:13

have to lower your whole entire standards

8:15

for the financial industry.

8:16

It is pretty juicy.

8:18

Yeah, okay,

8:25

okay, next one, Best New

8:27

smart Beta or factor e t F

8:30

Kristin who won this one?

8:32

Yeah, So the winner of this category was Avantis

8:34

all Equity Markets Value et F. That's

8:36

ticker A v g V. Obviously,

8:39

we were chatting about this a little bit earlier, and

8:41

I mean, if we go back to just even that last category,

8:44

there has been this push now into those active

8:46

ETFs, right, and so this the

8:49

best new smart Beta is essentially all about

8:51

that kind of push because it's cheap

8:53

way to get actively managed ETFs.

8:56

Yeah, and Evantis Joel

8:58

is sort of run by a guy who left

9:00

DFA and it's kind of factory

9:03

active obviously, but this

9:06

is to me, Evantis is the

9:08

tip of the spear of cheap Active. Active

9:12

Now, like Avantis, most of their active ETFs

9:14

are below twenty basis points. So

9:16

if you're an advisor, you know they love cheap stuff,

9:18

right, They're willing to buy Active, but

9:20

they want it sort of priced to

9:23

acknowledge that Beta is free. And

9:25

so as Active goes through this painful

9:27

process of like Beta adjusting their fees

9:29

down lower, I think they're going to sell more

9:31

and Avantas shows this, Capitol Group shows

9:33

this, JP Morgan shows this. Avantis

9:36

though, probably deserves even extra credit because the

9:38

type of flows are taking in are enormous

9:40

for a company that it doesn't have that brand name

9:42

of those other guys, So I think deserved

9:45

here.

9:45

Was that like best animation maybe

9:49

yeah, yeah, best the animated

9:52

film? Okay, this

9:55

one, I feel.

9:56

Like like slightly above best editor.

9:57

I'm curious how you're going

9:59

to react to this next next one? Uh,

10:02

Christian, let's stay with you. Best New E S

10:04

G E t F. Who won this?

10:07

All right? Best New E S G E t

10:09

F. That award winner went to the X trackers

10:12

M S C I U S A Climate Action

10:14

Equity E t F. That ticker is U

10:16

S c a really interesting

10:18

category for this one. And

10:21

Lucy, I know you have a couple of thoughts. She was talking

10:23

about E s G, E t FS

10:25

recently. Everyone loves to hate

10:28

E s G. Well, they love to hate ESG period,

10:30

and they really love to hate ESG.

10:34

Yeah, Eric kicked

10:36

it off.

10:37

Yeah, he was critical people are growing.

10:40

Well, it's interesting because this one, you

10:43

know, has accumulated one

10:45

point five billion in assets over a

10:47

time period, where over all the category has been

10:49

seeing that outflows closures.

10:54

Eric, I

10:57

hate.

10:58

Because this was long and I

11:00

Shares launched one climate action for this

11:02

European institution

11:05

who is currently in two who had seated

11:07

and I shares in a X trackers one

11:09

that was called ESG for

11:11

whatever reason, and they're both sensitive

11:14

about this.

11:15

They didn't like ESG.

11:16

So these two firms came out with climate

11:18

action and the firm simply moved

11:21

all their money out of the ESG ones into the climate

11:23

action one. So my interpretation was

11:25

that ESG, the term,

11:28

is getting a lot of baggage and people

11:30

would rather be in something they didn't have that in the name to avoid

11:32

all the controversy. And so in

11:35

a way this should win because it is indicative

11:37

of what we call the rebranding of ESG.

11:39

Yeah, so this is what I love about

11:42

the ETF dot Com awards. Just I mean to

11:44

kind of take a broader look for a really quick second,

11:46

because so many of these awards, even though it was in the year twenty

11:49

twenty four, we were looking at the performance and

11:51

everything like that for the year twenty twenty three.

11:53

So these awards are in a way a look back,

11:56

but they're also a really nice way to also look forward.

11:58

Right, you kind of can see that trends and

12:00

where the market is going and how investors are

12:02

thinking with these awards. But to Eric's

12:05

point about how ESG kind

12:07

of is almost like a scarlet letter for

12:09

a lot of folks, and so there's but

12:11

they are. It is ESG, though, I mean by

12:13

its definition, if you think about what ESG

12:16

really stands for, I mean that is essentially

12:18

what it is.

12:19

Interesting if you look at these nominees, I mean barely

12:22

they don't even have ESG in the name of the funds,

12:24

And I think it goes to what you're saying is, you know,

12:26

I think a lot of firms are kind of putting the ESG

12:29

label out's pasture because they're aware

12:32

of the baggage

12:34

that's coming along with it,

12:36

but you know, it's how

12:39

much are the actual strategies going to

12:41

transform orre They kind of just dropping the label.

12:44

It is interesting that none of the nominees in

12:46

the SG had ESG in the name. Yeah, none of them

12:49

and yourself, I may put that in a note That is really

12:51

interesting and kind of proves our take, which was we thought

12:54

and ESG is going to live on. I think it's

12:56

going to be one two percent of assets. They're going to

12:58

try all these different kinds of names. Smart

13:01

Beta went through this when smart Beta was popular.

13:03

Everybody hated the name smart. They're like, it's not always

13:05

smart, and it was a whole thing, and then it kind

13:07

of found it's like niche, and people moved

13:09

on to the next hot thing. ESG, I think,

13:12

is going into that space of just okay,

13:14

it exists, we don't need to debate it much anymore.

13:16

The one that didn't win this is the carbon neutral

13:19

power futures. That's kind of an interesting

13:21

one. It's like electricity futures droll, not

13:23

exactly ESG, more of a play on

13:26

the.

13:26

Actual electricity market. Another I think

13:28

I might have voted for that one and vets as well, and

13:30

vets another one.

13:32

Heat TOUCHSDOWNE Climate TRANSITIONINGTF.

13:34

I'm gonna use that as a way to

13:37

transition us into the new ETF

13:39

Ticker of the year. Heat shows up

13:41

not only in Best New ESG,

13:44

it also was nominated for Best ETF

13:46

Ticker of the Year. Kristen, did it win?

13:48

No? Oh, it did not win.

13:50

That one went to the theme cybersecurity ETF

13:53

ticker spam spam. Oh,

13:55

I know.

13:55

So good.

13:56

That is good.

13:57

We just had one of the nominees on the music

13:59

Guy Q a couple of weeks

14:01

ago. Bucks is on there. That's

14:03

a bond ETF spam for cybersecurity.

14:07

That that one, obviously, And it's interesting,

14:09

Joel, I've always told you my favorite ticker

14:12

is hack, which is a cybersecurity

14:14

ETF cybersecurity made

14:18

perfect. It's custom made for cool tickers. I

14:21

still like Hack better than spam by a little, but spam's

14:23

good.

14:23

I will say that my head, my head went

14:25

to spam, not the type in your

14:27

inbox, but spam in the can.

14:29

I also, it's funny you say that. I also

14:31

thought of that, and I've never eaten spam, so I

14:34

don't know why. That's where my mind.

14:35

Does it repel you at all? Because spam isn't

14:37

exactly like something you want.

14:38

To eat, you know, the thing you want to click

14:40

on.

14:41

I heard it's delicious though a lot

14:43

of has a following. So

14:46

I have a question if you guys had to make

14:48

a ticker name, Oh what would

14:50

the ticker?

14:50

We asked the questions on the show.

14:53

Well, I know yours easy? His

14:56

ideas have everything in one shot?

14:58

Call it easy? What

15:00

does it hold everything?

15:02

Yeah? I like that, Yeah, it

15:04

may I have its downsides.

15:07

Well, the problem is advisors don't want

15:09

to do that. They want to hold multiple things that looks like they're

15:11

doing something.

15:12

Yeah. Easy, But I just think it's

15:14

too good to just just make it easy

15:16

for folks. I have kind of

15:18

a new addendum after like what

15:20

seven years of the the podcast, and

15:23

this is very New York centric where in the I

15:25

think the phone book inspired a certain type of business

15:27

name, which was like a

15:30

B C and

15:32

then like mechanic right, Like.

15:34

You know, it's really sad. This is going over Lucy's

15:37

head because she's so young.

15:38

She do you even know what a phone

15:40

book is? You ever handled one?

15:42

I'm aware of the concept, but I haven't.

15:47

I haven't personally why would you do?

15:49

Yeah wait, why would you that instead of just using

15:51

your iPhone? I don't understand the concept, but.

15:53

Aware of the concepts, I feel

15:56

terrible.

15:56

So so the only thing better than ABC.

15:58

Have you ever been in a picture and gone

16:01

through a phone book?

16:02

What's a what's a phone phone?

16:04

You know, the payphones phone books.

16:05

Sitting there and they were chained. You know, it's

16:07

crazy. They were chained to New York,

16:10

chained inside.

16:11

I mean those things people take pictures.

16:13

Now, I just feel you ever made a collect call

16:15

from a phone booth? That's a whole other level.

16:17

Of yeah, yeah, yeah, no comment,

16:20

Uh, definitely definitely when

16:23

yeah okay, So anyways, uh

16:26

yeah, that does that answer your question?

16:28

Yeah?

16:28

It does kind of multiple different ways.

16:31

Okay, So this is little

16:33

grum roll. I feel like this is we're getting to

16:35

the second half. We're going to do etf

16:38

Issuer of the Year, which I

16:40

feel like this is like a big one best Studio

16:43

I guess something like that. That's not even an award.

16:45

I'd put up maybe best screenplay

16:48

or writer.

16:48

Okay, uh Lucy the winner

16:50

is.

16:51

Yeah, so for eat issue or the winner

16:54

was Dimensional Fund Advisors,

16:56

which you know, they're known for active

16:59

management, which is, like we mentioned earlier,

17:01

really been a huge theme of

17:03

the past year, and you know they launched

17:05

in twenty twenty, so they've really picked up steam.

17:08

They have thirty eight funds and one hundred

17:10

billion in assets, so you

17:12

know, it was a competitive category. We saw on Vesco

17:14

in there, van Neck, Franklin, Templeton,

17:17

But yeah, Dimensional one, Kristin,

17:19

were you surprised a little bit?

17:21

So I actually really love this because it's a little

17:23

bit like the Cinderella Story. I don't know if I would call

17:25

dfa truly like you know, a sort of and

17:27

when I say Cinderella story, I mean kind of like you

17:29

know, March Madness type of Cinderella

17:32

story. But I mean, really think about it. Again,

17:34

they've only been working launching

17:36

ETFs now for at the time three

17:38

years, right, because this was again for categories

17:41

that happened for twenty twenty three, and they're

17:43

going up against Fidelity, They're going up against

17:46

Invesco, They're going up against Vanac. These

17:48

are obviously really huge institutions that have

17:50

been doing this for such a long time. I love

17:53

that kind of again, I don't know if

17:55

I want to call them an underdog, but a little bit of an

17:57

underdog really when you compare it to some of those bigger

17:59

players.

18:00

This was the biggest

18:03

group in the world. I agree,

18:06

a little underdogish.

18:08

If if ARC kind of said that active

18:10

can succeed, it's

18:13

almost like DFA came and just like built a whole

18:15

highway because a

18:17

DFA has shown again that if you lower

18:19

your fees enough, you can really sell

18:22

almost anything. Because remember smart Beta

18:24

was around for a while, but it wasn't until it got

18:26

cheap that it started to see success. Same

18:28

with the SG In fact, Vanguard their

18:32

index funds charged sixty basis

18:34

points when they first started. It wasn't until they crossed the twenty

18:36

basis point line in like the late nineties

18:38

two thousands that they took off. So

18:40

the moral of the story is, whatever you have,

18:42

if you can get that fee under twenty BIPs, you're

18:44

going to start to move product. And DFA also

18:47

has a really big brand name for advisors, so

18:49

and DFA when they launched their ETFs,

18:52

they almost unexclusivized

18:54

because used to have to be like a member of

18:57

the DFA network. But if the ETF

18:59

anybody can buy it. So I agree

19:01

with this winner. It feels right to me. But

19:04

you're right, it's a tough category.

19:05

That implies that there was a winner that you didn't agree

19:07

with somewhere. Oh

19:09

no comment, you.

19:10

Just got im. It's going to be trying to be nice.

19:12

Yeah, okay, all right, Lucy,

19:15

sticking with you. The best thematic

19:18

ETF of the year.

19:20

The spraut Uranium Minors ETF

19:22

ticker you are and

19:25

and yeah, I mean they're one of the only

19:27

funds. Yeah, they're one of the only funds offering

19:29

exposure to uranium. And you

19:32

know, the performance was, you

19:35

know, double the return of the S and P five.

19:37

Uranium absolutely took off in twenty twenty

19:39

three. I think it was.

19:40

Oh did it?

19:41

It feels like it's been taking off multiple times.

19:43

Yeah, you guys weren't there yet. Let me take you back to rape

19:45

before COVID.

19:46

This is January twenty twenty, right

19:48

when I still thought it wasn't going to be a big deal.

19:49

Remember that.

19:50

Anyway, I'm on stage

19:52

at ETF dot com conference. You guys

19:54

weren't there yet, and the analysts have to

19:56

present their best new ETF idea.

19:59

I presented you R and M.

20:00

It had just come off a huge bear market, and I

20:02

called it green investing for realists, because

20:05

if you want to get to net zero, you got to have nuclear

20:07

I was like, this is also obvious Bill Gates

20:09

to say in the same thing, I

20:11

didn't win, But since

20:13

then, my my ticker, you R and M

20:16

crushed everybody.

20:16

So this is your comebacks. Yeah, this

20:19

is really you. You

20:22

should have been on taking

20:24

the tak the for this.

20:26

I should have I should have been part of the team

20:28

that went up.

20:29

So does the microphone

20:32

Does that mean you voted like Kanye Taylor

20:34

sweat, Yeah, yeah, I deserve this.

20:37

It feels like he's voting for this to keep his finger

20:39

on the scale about how smart I was like years

20:42

ago.

20:42

Well, I think it is a good story.

20:44

The other thing I like about this, we just did a study of like,

20:46

if you look at all the ETFs that have closed a

20:49

lot of times, their performance gets better after they

20:51

close than in their life. You know why, because they launched

20:53

the peak of these trends. Your n M stuck

20:55

out to me because it launched after like a ten year bear

20:57

market, and I was like, I never saw that,

20:59

and I'll like I kind of trust it. So you launch

21:02

when it's bad and you just wait for the ball to get kicked

21:04

to that part of the soccer field and then boom, you got this huge

21:06

run up.

21:06

And R in M I think also was

21:09

novel in that department.

21:10

I mean their performance. I'm looking right now their

21:12

one year performance over seventy one

21:14

percent. Yeah, seventy two percent.

21:16

Well, you've got a

21:19

fixed amount of this and

21:21

to be AIQ is big

21:23

because AIQ is doing real AI

21:25

and tech ETF.

21:26

That's the best selling AI ETF right now.

21:28

That's the hottest topic. So R

21:30

and M had tough competition

21:33

in here.

21:34

Okay, best new US

21:37

Fixed income ETF, Christian,

21:39

you want to take that one?

21:41

All right, let's go down this list. Okay, so best

21:43

new US fixed income ETF that went

21:45

to the Vanguard Short Term Tax Exempt

21:47

ETF VTEs

21:49

is the ticker. This is a tough category.

21:52

I think fixed income anything right

21:54

now.

21:54

Kind of the year of fixed income.

21:55

Oh man, it's investors

21:58

in fixed income have really been getting battered

22:01

prost lately. I think it's.

22:03

Also fixing

22:05

fixed income is editing a ton.

22:06

Of interest in this category. Yeah, so why

22:09

this one?

22:10

The competition wasn't that fierce.

22:13

All these companies are interesting calamos bond

22:15

blocks, but the ETFs picked

22:17

I could see why Vanguard won. Plus, you

22:20

know, Vanguard's like Daniel da Lewis. If

22:22

he's nominated for like seven caps, he's got to

22:24

win something. He's just too good, right, Vanguard

22:26

always takes in the most flows. They should win something

22:28

or it's a little weird, right, So I think you

22:31

have to give Vanguard some award

22:33

somewhere. And this thing I

22:35

haven't looked, but whenever they launch an

22:37

ETF, they only launched like one a year. Maybe

22:39

it's gonna be like billions of dollars.

22:42

So makes sense. Vanguard

22:44

got a little bone here.

22:45

Okay, So I think we're gonna have

22:47

a pause right before we

22:50

do the big the big part.

22:52

Was there musical entertainment at the show, like

22:54

you know how they do with the oscars.

22:55

I mean, other than me singing

22:58

yeah, I did not

23:00

say, I did not say.

23:01

And impromptu performance by

23:03

Kristen I did.

23:04

Actually, you know, it's really interesting. I did

23:07

actually have a bunch of issuers give

23:09

me one line best freestyle

23:11

rap. I know you're

23:13

so you seem surprised. Yeah, and I

23:16

got some really good ones.

23:18

Really yeah, So wait they sent you

23:20

a line of rap.

23:22

No, I literally just doorstep they

23:24

were on the spot. On the spot, I said,

23:26

I want you to freestyle your best one

23:28

line rap about finance or

23:30

investing or about your ETF. And

23:32

I have to tell you, well, I

23:34

will tell you the best raps that we

23:36

got came from an

23:38

issuer that actually performed very

23:41

well in this awards. I don't want to give

23:43

away. I'll circle back to it later.

23:45

But this is on stage or off stage.

23:46

Off stage?

23:47

Okay, Well, that kind of

23:49

stuff I think can help because there's

23:52

certain times that's not appropriate. But

23:54

if this seems to be like something where it's appropriate,

23:56

you know, the Financial Follies, that's that thing.

23:58

Nerd the nerd prompt financial.

24:00

You could be like the new Financial Follies. You know.

24:02

What you should consider doing is having some

24:05

kind of a theatrical skit or

24:07

even there's a lot of like Blackrock has a band,

24:10

you could have the black Rock band play listen.

24:12

I don't know.

24:13

The idea is we.

24:14

Are we are way ahead of you, so I want

24:16

to I just want to let you know that next year in twenty

24:18

twenty five, like you heard it here. First,

24:21

the ETF dot Com Awards are going to

24:23

be crazy.

24:23

Do you think they were crazy this year?

24:26

Just wait, just wait,

24:28

just wait till next.

24:29

Year's wait another three hundred days

24:31

or.

24:31

Together in their seats.

24:33

Yeah, just mark your calendars.

24:35

Now you got some strategic moves like that

24:37

game.

24:37

Bringing it back to.

24:38

The we didn't think there was enough open

24:40

conflict at this one, so we're we're

24:43

going to really try to play that out next year.

24:45

Good okay.

24:52

Bringing back to the twenty twenty four awards.

24:55

Last three things. We're going to start with Lifetime

24:57

Achievement Ward. Oh lucy who went

25:00

that?

25:01

Jan Vanak won? And

25:03

yeah, I mean he wasn't.

25:06

Bad for the other people who are nominated.

25:08

I mean everyone who was nominated, I mean

25:10

was this? Is it just mean that next

25:13

years scratched?

25:15

You just keep keep yourself,

25:18

But.

25:18

Think about it. This is one of those categories where you

25:20

know, everyone says that it's just an honor

25:23

just to be nominated, and they don't really mean it because

25:25

they really just want to win. But I actually

25:27

think when it comes to the Lifetime Achievement Award

25:29

category, it really is an honor

25:32

to be nominated for for your colleagues

25:34

and your peers to say you have

25:36

done such an incredible job and so

25:39

much work in this space.

25:41

It feels like the one award where

25:44

maybe don't reveal who the nominees are, just

25:46

acknowledge you the.

25:47

Winner is No I have to

25:50

I think you're happy to be nominated.

25:52

Well, I don't know.

25:53

Do you know that I was nominated for this twice?

25:57

How did you feel?

26:00

I did not know that. I was not trying to like make you

26:02

know, make you feel better.

26:03

Yeah, so I can give you first person account of how it feels.

26:06

I was honestly just honored to be there. I

26:09

felt too young. I was like, I'm not done

26:11

yet. That said, I was like, that's kind of cool

26:14

because for my age, I'm like, I'll

26:17

take it. But the two people, I think Reggie

26:19

Brown won instead of me one year and Matt Hogan won the

26:22

other year.

26:23

It was when their name was called I felt

26:25

a little.

26:25

Rejected, but just for a second, it wasn't

26:27

bad. But here we've got

26:30

Andrew Schlossberg, President of

26:32

Invesco, Bob Pizzani, who does the CNBC

26:34

ETF show, Hunter Horseley bit

26:36

Y CEO, Joanna Gallegos

26:38

from Bond Blocks, who has had a great career. She's

26:41

been really around for a while. Rory

26:43

Tobin of Global head of Spider, So,

26:46

Jan Vanek is such a great

26:48

guy. You know, it's a tough category, but somebody

26:51

has to win. And how is

26:53

his speech?

26:54

So it was actually really good. He gave us his speech virtually

26:58

and one it was kind of just you

27:00

know, obviously thanking the entire

27:02

crowd for for nominating him and for his win,

27:04

but also in a in a kind of a way,

27:07

a call to action for investors

27:09

and for also you know, the issuers in the space

27:12

to really again to continue to innovate, to continue

27:14

to provide really you know, value for

27:17

their clients and for investors. But then he also

27:19

mentioned a sort of like call to philanthropy

27:22

as well, that everyone in the room should really be thinking

27:24

about the world around

27:26

them, the investors that they're really working for, and trying

27:29

to essentially deliver the most for them.

27:32

Okay, last two, we're going to

27:34

do best drum roll.

27:36

Ye wants to make the drum roll.

27:38

Best New Think, best

27:41

New etf Lucy, do you want to do? The

27:43

owners?

27:45

And the winner it's a.

27:46

Little slow, was you need? Yeah,

27:48

there you go?

27:49

And the winner was the Round Hill

27:51

Magnificent seven ETF ticker m.

27:53

A gs what shocker.

27:56

Yeah, I know, kind of a no brainer.

27:57

Yeah, I mean that makes it brainer. I think that's a

28:00

shocker, really round.

28:01

Hill, Yeah, I mean, I mean they're

28:04

I mean they're the first, the first, yeah,

28:07

best, Yeah, the first you get to track

28:09

the mag seven stocks.

28:10

Yeah, they kind of coin they kinda off

28:14

the Magnificent seven.

28:15

Here's why the cues

28:17

and some of these big ETFs they're kind of Magnificent

28:20

seven. Anyway, Like this basically

28:23

took something that you're already

28:25

loaded up on and said, let's just do that.

28:28

And it's to me, it's proof

28:30

you can really try anything, because

28:33

it's not that it's just a slight step away from the

28:35

cues, which I think are like forty percent Magnificent seven

28:37

stocks.

28:38

I mean, anyway, God bless.

28:40

But Fang was yesterday and Magsie

28:42

true today.

28:42

It's a sign of the times for sure. They

28:45

also did chat, which is a ai E t

28:47

F. They were nominated for two.

28:49

That's interesting.

28:50

Has it ever happened to the Oscars where someone's nominated

28:52

for two at the same time.

28:54

I'm gonna go with yeah, but I

28:56

don't know.

28:56

Yeah, will

28:58

say pretty bad ass.

28:59

That's something that a couple of nominees

29:01

appear more than once. You can appear

29:03

in more than one category, and you

29:06

are allowed to have as an issue more

29:08

than one ETF in in everycent category.

29:10

One of the nominees, Joel, we had a whole episode on T

29:12

Jewel T Jewel, which is the Innovator

29:14

Equity Define Protection ETF. That's the one that says,

29:17

we promise you'll never lose money and you'll

29:19

get sixteen percent every two years. Remember,

29:22

Yeah, And it was like that caused all kinds of controversy

29:24

on Twitter.

29:24

Sounds sounds like too good to be trusto.

29:27

When you hear it like that, it does you're to date.

29:29

They're only they're up less than one and a half percent.

29:31

Yeah, so they have it. Okay. Now

29:35

the big reveal ETF

29:37

of the year, Kristen, did

29:40

you know what advance?

29:42

I knew some of them, okay, I knew some of them, Okay.

29:44

And the winner is that

29:46

was pacer US small cap cash

29:48

Cows one hundred ETF ticker c a

29:51

LF. They really should have nominated themselves,

29:53

I think in the best ticker name. But

29:55

yeah, CALF. So I should

29:57

also mention pacer the Pacer

30:00

folks also have the best freestyle wraps

30:04

about about not only their

30:06

their ETF, but also about their about

30:09

their company.

30:10

Eric, this.

30:13

Is a worthy winner.

30:15

I agree with you.

30:16

Let me give you some facts on CALF. I think

30:18

I voted for it. I can't remember.

30:19

But Calf, first of all, it's not a fact.

30:22

I don't think in fact that shared like sharing

30:24

something worthwhile.

30:28

Let me start again or keep it, I don't

30:30

care. We're being human here, you

30:33

know.

30:33

Okay?

30:35

Is this human enough? Okay?

30:39

Okay?

30:40

Calf is like the little brother of cows.

30:43

Cows is this cash flow ETF? To me, this is

30:45

the arc of the fed raising rates

30:47

cycle. So when fed raised rates,

30:49

arc kind of went in the gutter and

30:52

cows became the new darling indie

30:55

kind of issuer that came out of nowhere, took in money hand

30:57

over fist. So they're like, oh my god, we've got

30:59

cows. Let's do this for small

31:01

caps. We'll launch Calf, and Calf

31:03

just took off. Calf is taken

31:06

in money like I think it took in money for

31:08

one hundred days straight. Once, It's taken in money for

31:10

forty months straight. And it's all organic

31:13

and all it does is look for free cash

31:15

flow of companies, which is a metric that everyone's

31:18

gone gaga small small caps.

31:20

The big one does large caps. But listen

31:22

to this stat calf is

31:24

small caps only but outperformed

31:27

the S and P. Well, that's crazy

31:29

because it's.

31:30

It's with this.

31:31

It's good within small caps. Small

31:33

caps everybody knows has trailed the S and P by a lot,

31:35

but it picked the right ones that

31:38

it actually beat the S and P.

31:40

This is all.

31:41

This is really hard to do for

31:43

an issue that isn't like a gargantuan size.

31:45

So that's why I love this winner.

31:47

I will one because I just love the small cap story

31:49

in general.

31:50

And they drop beats.

31:51

Yeah, and they drop mad sick beats,

31:54

but I love the small cap story in general.

31:56

I mean, I think in twenty twenty three, with the

31:58

market performance obviously kind

32:00

of like really like that bowl kind of getting

32:03

out of the pen and starting to run, I think people really

32:05

ignore it. I know, I

32:07

know we're gonna I'm going to give you all

32:10

cattle based references now for this, but

32:13

honestly, I think people were kind of ignoring small

32:15

caps. But I mean, what kind of is a drop

32:18

in the ocean becomes a wave for small caps, and

32:20

I just really think that CALF kind of rode

32:23

that wave. And I think small caps are

32:25

also something that in twenty twenty four a lot of

32:27

investors are going to really be looking

32:29

into. And so what excites me about

32:32

CALF and just in general with a lot of

32:34

the winners that we're seeing, I'm curious to know

32:36

which of them are not I don't want

32:38

to say flashes in the pan, but really captured a moment

32:40

in time in twenty twenty three, but don't

32:43

do well in twenty twenty four considering the

32:45

changing market environment that we

32:47

have right now, and for me,

32:49

when I look at CALF, I'm really curious to see

32:51

how they perform in twenty twenty four, since so many investors

32:54

are starting to say, hey, maybe we should actually take a look

32:56

at small caps.

32:58

Yeah, I agree.

32:59

The other one's mostly large cap jep Q, qqq

33:02

m RSP, and BITQ would be bitcoin

33:04

industry minors. That was a little bit of a test

33:06

because as these nominees came out.

33:08

Bitcoin had exploded.

33:09

Yeah, but it didn't make its way in here because it's all twenty

33:12

twenty four. So I was curious if if crypto

33:14

would actually win this category just because bitcoin

33:16

was hot. But it's probably best that didn't. I

33:19

think next year you could see more of the bitcoin stuff.

33:21

Yeah, next year we'll have to do like a crypto

33:23

category probably, Yeah, I think

33:25

we will.

33:26

I think you just have to make a new one.

33:28

Yeah.

33:28

And I think it was cool too, because, I mean, as

33:30

we mentioned Ai and mag seven was

33:32

such sort of people think of the story of twenty

33:34

twenty three. So to have this ETF

33:37

when and really focus on you

33:39

know, small cap and just have such a

33:42

unique and effective strategy, I thought that was

33:44

really cool.

33:45

All right. It's a question we often ask on the

33:47

show at the end, Lucy

33:49

Kristin, what's your favorite ETF

33:52

ticker? Lucy, you

33:54

can go first.

33:55

My favorite ETF ticker? Hmm,

33:59

I think you got pure you

34:03

know, fun. I

34:05

do think I think hack is fun. I also

34:07

like I like some of those spot bitcoin tickers. I

34:09

think the van nek h O

34:11

d L.

34:12

Is kind of fun.

34:12

I like the nods to the culture.

34:15

Take them, Kristin, Oh, mine

34:17

sounds so boring. Now, Jets.

34:21

It's fine favorite, It's well,

34:24

I well, what I am general Jets

34:26

fan.

34:27

I like the football team. No,

34:29

Okay, I'm

34:31

a giant. I'm a giant school. I do

34:34

have friends that play on the Jets, so I kind of am like, yeah,

34:36

I support whenever I see them playing,

34:38

But I like Jets. I love

34:40

the travel industry. Yeah, I love

34:42

the travel industry in general. I

34:44

love in the airlines, the airliners,

34:47

and it's just such an easy ticker name to remember

34:49

and Jets love that.

34:52

I think Jets one two or three years ago.

34:54

It had to it had a great year around

34:56

COVID.

34:56

Yeah. Okay, Lucy Kristin, thanks

34:58

so much for joining us on Trillion's.

35:00

Thanks for having.

35:00

Us,

35:07

Thanks for listening to Trillions until

35:09

next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal,

35:12

Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts,

35:14

Spotify, or wherever else you'd

35:16

like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're

35:19

on Twitter. I'm at Joel Webber Show.

35:22

He's at Eric Balchunas.

35:24

This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus

35:27

Hendrickson. Bye