0:00

We at Wondery, creators of Dr.

0:02

Death, Scamfluencers, and Over My

0:04

Dead Body, go deeper into complex

0:06

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0:09

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0:11

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0:13

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0:16

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0:20

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0:23

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0:25

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0:27

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and Amazon Music. Exhibit

0:55

C. It's truly criminal.

1:00

Have you ever seriously pissed off your in-laws?

1:03

A couple of years ago, I started investigating

1:05

a murder in my wife's family. Why

1:08

would I do something so stupid? Well,

1:10

partly because I've come to suspect that the woman

1:12

who was killed is haunting the house I

1:14

grew up in. There

1:16

was a weight on the bed like somebody was in

1:19

it. I woke up because

1:21

my bed was shaking. So it would be like,

1:24

shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake,

1:26

shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake.

1:27

But mainly because I think someone in the family

1:30

might have got away with murder. And

1:32

my in-laws? Well, they're not exactly

1:34

thrilled about it. You are deconstructing

1:37

an age-old story.

1:38

We're going to be more traumatized by this podcast than

1:40

we were about the murder, I'll tell you that. There is

1:42

going to be blowback. I'm

1:44

Tristan Redmond and from Wondery and Pineapple

1:47

Street Studios, this is Ghost Story. A

1:49

podcast about the things that come back

1:51

to haunt us. Follow Ghost Story on the Wondery app

1:54

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge

1:56

all episodes of Ghost Story ad-free right

1:58

now by joining Wondery+.

2:00

Listener discretion is advised. Hello

2:03

and welcome to True Crime, the podcast

2:05

that helps you find new emerging and

2:07

undiscovered true crime podcasts. I'm

2:10

Greg, the host and curator of True

2:12

Crime. Today's episode is

2:14

from P&W Haunts and Homicides.

2:17

Caitlin and Cassie cover true crime, paranormal,

2:20

and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.

2:23

P&W Haunts and Homicides is an indie

2:25

drop-in favorite and this episode is particularly

2:28

fun because it's one of their Patreon

2:31

Live episodes. So I hope everyone enjoys

2:33

that. If you like today's episode, make

2:35

sure to check out the episode description for

2:37

links to subscribe. Alright, let's get this

2:39

show started. Begin.

2:41

All of these people were somehow connected

2:44

to the house. That

2:46

is really weird. It's very strange.

2:49

Weird for sure, and I hate it. It's

2:51

giving let's play with a

2:53

Ouija board on this native burial

2:56

ground on Friday the 13th and then

2:58

just not remember to say goodbye. But that

3:01

wasn't all there was

3:02

to the story of this house. And

3:05

it's particularly dark laden

3:08

energy. Hi

3:17

Cassie. Hi Caitlin. Hi creepy

3:20

people. Hello.

3:23

Oh, I'm still keeping it spooky. Wow.

3:26

All October.

3:27

She's drunk on pumpkin. I

3:30

literally. Yeah. Yeah.

3:33

Two sips in and they're like

3:35

drunk on pumpkin spas.

3:38

I am basic white bitch wasted.

3:40

Yeah. As basic as

3:42

it gets. Oh yeah. Who are we

3:47

again? This is P&W

3:49

Haunts and Homicides. If

3:51

you're new to our creepy corner of the world,

3:55

we chat about true crime, the

3:57

paranormal, and all things

3:58

creepy in the

3:59

Pacific Northwest. Do

4:02

you know what else we do? What? We

4:04

do a tarot reading at the end of every

4:06

episode for a little deeper

4:08

insight, intuition,

4:11

whatever you wanna say into our topic. Oh

4:13

yeah, I'm glad you remembered that.

4:16

I always remember that. I never

4:18

remember anything. So it's the

4:20

best part. Yeah, here we are. Skip

4:24

to the end. Yeah. You know? Or

4:26

don't. I'm just kidding. Or

4:29

don't. You could just listen to the whole episode.

4:32

It's great when we get those high

4:34

completion rates. Anyways, should

4:37

we just get right into

4:40

our topic today? Yeah,

4:42

I'm really excited. I know that

4:44

it's rare. I know it is. I

4:48

feel as though it may be

4:50

unearned,

4:51

but we'll see. I know, I feel

4:53

like I'm gonna regret saying that. Yeah,

4:56

but basically.

4:58

In Southeast Portland, there is a home

5:00

that one neighbor interviewed by local

5:02

television station, Coin Six,

5:06

says has changed hands a number

5:08

of times.

5:09

Hmm, I wonder why. Well, I

5:11

mean, probably not particularly

5:14

remarkable

5:15

on the surface when one considers

5:18

that many of the homes in the Moreland neighborhood

5:20

were built in the 1920s or 30s.

5:22

Ooh.

5:24

So in all likelihood, many

5:27

of them have changed hands

5:29

many a time. That's like 100 years.

5:32

It is like 100 years, man.

5:36

One family lived there happily for roughly

5:38

four years in the mid 90s. Pictures

5:42

of what seemed to be a normal family

5:44

home in Portland were featured

5:46

in the YouTube video produced by the

5:48

same television network for broadcast.

5:51

Ooh, Coin Six? Yes. Okay.

5:54

This home is at the corner of 36th

5:57

and Lambert. I have

5:59

no idea where that... That is, but that's okay. It's a Moreland

6:01

neighborhood. I want Cassie. I don't know where

6:03

that is either. My mom does, I'm sure she's listening.

6:06

She's like, I know, right there that is. She's

6:09

like, I drive by that all the time. Don't

6:12

drive by it. Okay, don't do that.

6:15

Don't go near it. Okay.

6:17

Just a deal, okay.

6:19

In the summer of 1989, 34 year old mother, Vicki

6:24

Lynn Cuttsforth, killed

6:26

her two young children.

6:29

Myra Cuttsforth, age 10, and

6:32

Abigail Cuttsforth, age seven. Oh,

6:35

that is, I'm not excited anymore.

6:37

I take it back right now. Yeah,

6:39

I thought the turnaround would be rather swift.

6:42

Dang it. Yeah. Both

6:44

had been shot in the head. After

6:48

killing her daughters, Vicki then turned

6:50

the gun on herself.

6:52

That is just so fucking sad.

6:55

Yes. When detective

6:58

David Simpson made an official statement

7:01

on behalf of the Portland Police Bureau, the

7:03

autopsies were pending, but

7:06

it was believed that the family had been

7:08

dead for only about 24 hours. She

7:11

was connected to another infamous

7:14

gunman from the Salem area of

7:16

Oregon, Lawrence W.

7:19

Moore. Okay. Have

7:22

we talked about him? We actually

7:24

kind of have. Oh, yeah.

7:27

This is about to get really weird.

7:30

Okay, I like weird. Yeah, well,

7:32

I don't know if you like this brand

7:33

weird. Quit ruining it. Sorry,

7:37

not sorry. Taken from the

7:39

UPI archives, dating back

7:41

to September 7th, 1989, the

7:45

headline read,

7:46

Murder, Suicide, Mom Related

7:49

to Mass Killer. Oh, wow,

7:51

what a headline.

7:53

Portland, Oregon, a registered nurse who

7:56

shot and killed her two young daughters and then

7:58

herself, was... the sister of

8:00

a man serving a life term for

8:03

killing four people and wounding 20

8:05

others in a 1981 tavern

8:07

shooting, police said. The

8:12

woman was also heavily involved

8:14

with psychics and believed in

8:16

channeling with dead spirits.

8:19

A police spokesman said on Wednesday.

8:22

So, you know, it's

8:24

not the worst we've seen, but

8:27

definitely dripping with some pretty

8:29

icky verbiage there. Yeah.

8:33

So, let's talk about the connection though,

8:35

just briefly. Okay. Okay.

8:38

Are we going to get back to this spirits thing?

8:41

Well, no, not really. What

8:44

does that have to do with anything? That's the

8:46

whole point, right? What does it have to do

8:48

with anything? Wow. Okay.

8:51

It's hard to make her look like

8:53

she's deranged or she's crazy,

8:56

which I'm, you know, some

8:58

would argue that to kill your own children, you'd

9:00

have to be a little crazy. Something was wrong.

9:03

Yes. It didn't have to do with.

9:04

Right.

9:05

Spirits doesn't have anything to do with that

9:08

that I'm aware of. On

9:10

May 8th, 1981, Lawrence,

9:13

a 20 year old man with a brain defect

9:16

entered the Oregon Museum Tavern

9:19

and began shooting. Oh

9:21

my gosh. That's

9:22

so terrifying.

9:23

Yes. In

9:25

less than a minute, four people were

9:27

suddenly slain and 20 more were injured.

9:31

That shooting took place at the Oregon

9:34

Museum Tavern, a bar

9:36

that has further connections to other

9:38

violent crime. What is going

9:41

on? I, right. I

9:43

would like to know. It's like a threat

9:45

of crime.

9:48

We've talked about it in another previous

9:50

episode of the show, so I could literally

9:52

go on and on, but we

9:54

can only tug at so many threads

9:57

here, people, because holy

9:58

hell of

9:59

a sweater. Well, that's

10:02

weird. I just said thread and you're just

10:04

talking about threads.

10:05

Sweater weather.

10:08

It is. Yes.

10:10

So there's a series of crimes that all

10:12

appear to be unrelated based on all

10:14

of the facts, at least that I have. And

10:17

yet they seem eerily

10:18

intertwined, not

10:22

by the evidence, but by the people's

10:24

lives that became commingled

10:27

by violence. And all of them had

10:29

something to do with this house

10:32

in Southeast Portland. If

10:36

maybe only tangentially, but

10:39

all of these people were somehow connected

10:41

to the house. That

10:44

is really weird. It's very strange.

10:47

Weird for sure. And I hate it.

10:49

It's giving,

10:50

let's play with a Ouija board on this

10:53

native burial ground on Friday the 13th.

10:56

And then just not remember to say goodbye.

10:58

That sounds fun to me. Well,

11:00

it's the 14th, so you're too fucking late.

11:02

You are shit out of luck. You know, I don't

11:05

believe that Friday the 13th is bad

11:07

luck. Okay, but if you're already

11:09

doing all of that other stuff, are

11:11

you like,

11:12

it's like you want to give me a stroke, you know,

11:14

it's like you want me to die. I really

11:17

don't. Please don't. You

11:20

know what I'm picturing though? I got this

11:22

strong visual when you were talking about the house

11:25

is like the middle of a spider web.

11:27

I'm just picturing like

11:29

spider webs just attaching to everyone

11:32

who has ever been in the house. No, no.

11:35

Anyway, that's what I'm seeing in my brain. But

11:38

that wasn't all there was to the story

11:40

of this house. And it's particularly

11:44

dark laden energy.

11:47

Later in 1992, when

11:49

it was home to a midwife, Martha

11:52

Browning Bryant Crouch,

11:54

tragedy would strike again.

11:57

Martha Browning Bryant Crouch.

12:02

Most of the time you will see her identified

12:05

as Martha Browning Bryant

12:07

or Martha Bryant, but

12:10

it's a combination of names and I don't know if

12:12

maybe one of them was a married name, one of them,

12:15

you know, made in, oftentimes

12:18

in situations where you're trying to

12:20

identify who this person

12:22

is online, you'll see where multiple

12:25

names are tacked on so that those

12:27

that knew them at various stages in their life,

12:31

know who they're talking about. I was like,

12:33

damn, what a name. I, you know, it

12:36

is. See how I'm distracting her from

12:38

talking about the bad stuff? Uh-huh. It's not

12:40

gonna work. I heard tragedy and I was like, nah,

12:43

we're gonna talk about the name. Nah. Martha

12:47

was born September 11th

12:49

of 1951 in Fredericksburg,

12:53

Virginia.

12:54

Her car, a

12:56

VW bug, don't worry,

12:58

you know, we're circling back to

13:00

that. Okay.

13:01

Is it a bug or a beetle, Caitlin?

13:04

Um, it's a bug. It's a bug. It was

13:07

discovered riddled with bullets

13:09

in neighboring Washington County

13:11

in

13:12

the city of Hillsborough. As a matter of fact,

13:15

oh, oh boy. Her body

13:17

was found nearby just a couple hundred

13:20

yards away. She

13:22

was the second victim of a

13:25

serial killer here in Oregon,

13:28

primarily, Caesar Francisco

13:32

Barone. Oh, just

13:34

shooting up cars? Um,

13:37

no, we're gonna get into it. Oh God.

13:39

Okay. I know. She's like, why did I ask?

13:43

The following was taken from the Oregon affiliate

13:47

of the American College of Nurse

13:49

Midwives. Okay. I'm gonna

13:51

take a breath because that is quite, I mean,

13:53

I could have just gone with the acronym, but

13:57

you gotta say the whole thing so we know what it is. Yeah, you

13:59

do. Oh, you've never

14:01

heard of the OAC? Yeah,

14:05

I hear it every day. Martha

14:08

was a treasured member of the Portland midwifery

14:11

community who was tragically murdered

14:14

on her way home from a birth

14:16

in 1992. Oh,

14:19

wow.

14:21

The Martha Browning Bryant Memorial

14:23

Lecture is an annual CME

14:26

event that has been held for

14:29

over 25 years to honor

14:31

her memory and remember her spirit.

14:34

Oh, that is really sweet. So,

14:37

Caesar shot

14:40

at the car of midwife

14:42

Martha Bryant, she was 41 at the

14:44

time, as she drove away

14:46

from Tualiti Hospital in

14:49

Hillsborough. Oh my gosh. Then

14:51

he pulled the wounded woman from her

14:53

car, sexually assaulted

14:56

her, then shot her in the head

14:58

at close range. Wow. Seriously?

15:03

Someone who

15:04

brings new life into the world,

15:06

and this is how she's taken from it?

15:09

That's awful. I just, yeah.

15:12

And on that night, she had brought

15:15

new life into the world. Yeah,

15:17

just seriously think.

15:20

The day 7734,

15:21

southeast 36, has become known as the Portland

15:23

Hell House. See,

15:31

I liked it for that name, I thought it sounded

15:34

really cool. Yeah, but

15:36

you don't like the next part. Following

15:39

this strange series of tragic circumstances

15:42

that the inhabitants have found themselves

15:44

in over the years. That

15:48

part,

15:49

we like less. Yeah, that sucks.

15:51

Yeah.

15:52

Fortunately for us, it is

15:55

sort of a horrific

15:57

mishmash of both of our genres.

16:00

Russ. Mm-hmm. So there's there's

16:02

that. I feel like

16:04

it's more yours. But yeah, as

16:06

it turns out it's a

16:07

lot more mine. Yeah.

16:09

Do you know what an evangelical hell

16:12

house is?

16:14

It's like their version of a

16:16

haunted house.

16:17

We at Wondery, creators of Dr. Death,

16:20

scam fluencers, and Over My Dead

16:22

Body, go deeper into complex

16:24

true crime stories to give you an inside

16:26

look at the facts. And now we're launching

16:28

the ultimate true crime fan destination,

16:31

Exhibit C.

16:32

It's truly criminal. Wondery's

16:35

Exhibit C gives you the

16:36

detective's lens of all

16:38

of the evidence, taking you step-by-step through

16:41

the twists and turns

16:42

of each true crime case.

16:44

Join the Exhibit C online community

16:46

to access exclusive show merchandise,

16:49

member-only content, and to hear directly

16:51

from top criminal and social

16:53

justice experts,

16:55

witnesses, and investigators as

16:57

they take us beyond the evidence and into

16:59

the case file. Join now by following

17:01

Wondery Exhibit C on Facebook or

17:04

find us on the web at WonderyExhibitC.com

17:07

and listen to true crime podcasts on

17:09

Wondery and Amazon Music.

17:11

Exhibit C. It's truly

17:14

criminal.

17:17

So they basically just show you

17:20

like people that had premarital

17:23

sex, like dying

17:26

in the middle of abortions, and dying of AIDS, and oh my

17:28

god, having drug overdoses,

17:34

and that is terrible.

17:37

Yeah. What the fuck?

17:39

Yeah. Yeah. Because my

17:42

next line was literally going to be, and we're

17:44

not talking about the evangelical

17:47

Christian haunted house kind

17:49

of hell house.

17:51

Again, seriously you guys, we simply don't

17:53

have the time. Go watch the

17:55

hell house documentary though. Okay.

17:58

Here's the

17:59

thing. not quite done

18:01

yet with the topic of Caesar,

18:04

Francisco, Barone, which

18:06

is of course

18:08

not his real name.

18:10

Oh it's not? Nope. Oh okay. No

18:12

it's one that he gave to himself because

18:15

he was obsessed with Italian

18:17

gangsters. Oh okay.

18:20

Yeah so we're off to a really great start.

18:23

Caught it. Yeah.

18:24

He was born December 4th of 1960 in

18:26

Fort

18:31

Lauderdale, Florida. Which

18:34

first of all thanks a lot Florida. Seriously

18:37

girl what is your problem?

18:40

She don't know. She don't know.

18:42

His given name was actually Adolf

18:45

James Road.

18:47

Oh I can't imagine why he didn't want to go by

18:50

Adolf. Right? My

18:52

next line, which to be fair

18:54

I might have also changed

18:56

but that's besides the point. Can

19:00

we just call him Adolf now though? I feel

19:02

it doesn't that feel like we should. Yeah.

19:04

He was a violent and antisocial

19:07

teenager that quickly developed problematic

19:10

habits when it came

19:12

to both illicit drugs like meth, cocaine,

19:15

and LSD in addition to

19:17

you know just like casual alcohol.

19:19

Just

19:20

casual alcohol. Just

19:22

casual alcohol. You think he

19:24

could replace the meth with the booze

19:26

maybe? You know probably

19:30

I don't think they work the same. I feel like

19:32

the rest isn't that bad. But the rest, yes.

19:35

I mean the stuff. Yeah.

19:38

As a teen he also committed burglaries

19:40

and assaults until he was arrested

19:42

in the late 1970s and

19:45

did some time. So

19:48

casual teen stuff.

19:50

Yeah doing time. Doing

19:52

time. But we apparently

19:55

literally don't even make it to

19:56

the 80s before he's released.

19:59

So

20:00

Just to back this up, in

20:02

case you forgot in the last 20 seconds,

20:06

get arrested. Just

20:08

some time. In the late 1970s.

20:13

1980 hasn't even rolled around

20:15

yet.

20:16

And he's out. Okay.

20:19

I did time, but not very much time. No,

20:22

not a lot.

20:23

What in tarnation? It's

20:27

fine.

20:28

Following his release, his

20:30

reign of terror continued.

20:32

He terrorized his former stepmother

20:35

amongst others.

20:37

And I do mean terrorized.

20:39

Aww. I'm not going in depth

20:42

on this.

20:43

He's the worst.

20:45

I say it every week. But,

20:47

you know, damn

20:49

it if I don't mean it every time. Okay.

20:53

Now, we made it to the 80s. In 1980,

20:57

this dude, now living his life under

21:00

the name Caesar Francisco

21:03

Barone. Okay, it all

21:07

was sentenced again for several burglaries

21:10

and imprisoned.

21:11

So.

21:14

You're listening to an episode of P&W

21:17

haunts and homicides on true crime

21:19

by Indy Drop-in. We're going to take a quick

21:21

break. And now back

21:24

to this episode of P&W

21:26

haunts and homicides.

21:28

Now, this is where for me personally,

21:30

it reaches a fever pitch of

21:33

weirdness in the story. During

21:36

his incarceration at a prison in

21:38

Florida, he attempted to

21:41

sexually assault a female prison

21:43

guard. Wow, that's ballsy.

21:46

Yeah. It was then

21:48

that he was transferred

21:51

to the Florida State Prison in Stark,

21:54

where he apparently met Ted

21:56

Bundy.

21:57

Oh.

21:59

Okay,

22:01

which is like ew gross.

22:03

You couldn't pay me, but I

22:05

bet he thought that ship was pretty cool.

22:07

Ugh.

22:08

Hashtag. Hashtag never Bundy.

22:11

But here this dude is popping

22:14

up again. God, it's honestly like,

22:16

why are you so obsessed with me? Seriously,

22:19

I'm kind of like so obsessed with us. Creepy,

22:21

I don't like it. I know. And

22:24

as always, the VW Bug

22:27

slash Bundy Association

22:29

is strong. Told you

22:31

we'd circle back, but I didn't say

22:34

you'd like it.

22:36

I just, I hate how it's like

22:39

these common elements that

22:41

like, they don't necessarily mean

22:44

anything,

22:47

but

22:49

it just, it gives you an ooky vibe. For

22:52

sure. Okay.

22:54

I needed to know that I wasn't

22:56

crazy. No. Definitely

22:59

not crazy. Researching this,

23:01

I was just like, you

23:03

gotta be fucking kidding me. You

23:06

guys should see her not crazy eyes right

23:08

now. Oh yeah. Well, a

23:11

short time later, Adolf James

23:13

Road,

23:14

because remember that was his real

23:16

given legal name up to this point,

23:19

decided to rename himself, Caesar

23:23

Francisco Barone.

23:25

And it's

23:27

really gross that it seems like he

23:30

was super

23:32

thrilled to let everybody know how he

23:34

met Ted Bundy. And he even

23:37

tried to kind of insinuate

23:39

that like, oh yeah, I got tips from

23:41

Ted that helped me

23:44

avoid capture. Ew.

23:46

Which is like, really? You're gonna take tips

23:49

from Bundy on how not to get caught?

23:51

Weren't they both caught at the time? Yeah.

23:56

Yeah. That was the final time that Bundy

23:58

was caught. Florida.

23:59

where he was executed. Man.

24:03

Never meet your heroes.

24:06

Then in 1988 things take a

24:09

turn.

24:11

Caesar married a woman named Kathy

24:14

and surprise

24:17

moved to the Pacific Northwest. Did

24:20

Bundy tell him to do that? Hey, nice!

24:23

Clearly, just they're just

24:26

doing it to yuck

24:27

our yins, I think.

24:30

He'd apparently been unable to hold

24:32

down a job, quickly running through numerous

24:35

forms of gainful employment in

24:37

just a few months. Which seems

24:39

like something a lot of these guys haven't

24:42

common. Yep. So in 1989 he decided to

24:44

join the army and even received

24:50

a shooting qualification for

24:52

the M16.

24:54

Which is just

24:55

like not super chill. No.

24:59

I

25:01

don't like it.

25:04

He got a couple of badges which literally

25:06

makes him sound like an overgrown Cub

25:08

Scout. And for

25:11

anyone else being a parachutist

25:13

and also earning a separate badge for

25:15

first aid, that'd be freaking impressive.

25:18

But I'm forever unimpressed

25:21

by whatever the fuck this guy's name is was.

25:24

Whatever you want to call him. He

25:27

participated in the US invasion

25:29

of Panama before the end of that

25:31

same year and now I have that

25:33

song stuck in my head forever. No!

25:39

And just like that, so do you. Later

25:43

he would brag about his heavy air quotes,

25:47

military exploits,

25:49

stating that he had killed

25:52

numerous

25:53

Panamanians.

25:55

Like

25:55

nah dude, that's just murder.

25:58

Well, especially since he alleged

26:01

that some of them were civilians.

26:04

Oh, yeah. Why would you talk about

26:06

that? I don't know, but I feel

26:08

like this is the serial killer equivalent

26:11

of like, nice truck dude, sorry

26:13

about your dick. You know what I mean?

26:15

Yeah. Oh, yeah, you killed some

26:18

unarmed civilians at a time of war.

26:23

He was accused of sexual misconduct

26:26

as 1990 was first dawning.

26:29

Apparently, he had exposed himself

26:31

to a female officer, which I

26:35

guess he only realized was a bad

26:37

idea in hindsight. Yikes.

26:40

And no idea if the

26:42

two events were related, but he

26:44

was also discharged for

26:46

lying about his felony conviction

26:49

after serving several years in prison

26:52

previously and changing his identity.

26:56

So

26:57

here's the thing then. I really

26:59

started to fall down a rabbit hole because

27:02

I was like,

27:04

are we serious?

27:07

The military in one of the

27:09

wealthiest countries in the world,

27:12

if not the wealthiest, I don't know. Are

27:14

we? Are we not? Who cares? But

27:18

we don't have the resources

27:20

to do a proper background check?

27:23

I mean, even in the 90s.

27:26

OK, sure.

27:27

All right, let's say I can live with

27:29

that.

27:30

I can't, by the way.

27:32

I'm certainly not an expert in

27:35

the arena, but I don't know. Maybe

27:38

we do that before we hand

27:40

people M16s.

27:44

I feel like that explains a lot about

27:46

how the rest of the world sees us. Like,

27:49

I have an idea.

27:51

Let's send a bunch of 19-year-olds that

27:54

are basically barely equipped to handle their own

27:56

dicks in a restroom and also

27:58

violent convicts. abroad with

28:01

guns Sounds

28:03

good. What could go wrong? but

28:06

I digress because This

28:08

story isn't really about the

28:10

military industrial complex. It's

28:13

about a lot of things but

28:16

Somehow technically not

28:18

also that. All right, a

28:20

lot of tangents

28:26

From 1991 to 1993 Caesar

28:32

this bitch Barone

28:36

That's my nickname for him

28:38

Killed at least four women in

28:40

and around the Portland metro area.

28:42

Oh

28:44

He also assaulted at least three other

28:46

women that managed to survive

28:49

in that same period

28:51

of time Law enforcement

28:53

in both the state of Oregon and Florida

28:56

suspect that he had other victims

29:00

Let's talk about the women that we

29:02

do know are confirmed victims of

29:04

his crime Of course, we've

29:07

already heard about Martha. There's

29:09

a Bryant

29:10

that is

29:12

She lived in our Portland house.

29:15

Okay. Yeah He

29:18

Also raped and strangled

29:20

Martha Schmidt

29:23

to Martha's

29:24

on April 18th of She

29:29

was a 61 year old woman who

29:31

lived alone in her home in Hillsboro,

29:33

Oregon. Oh my god He

29:36

entered her home and it

29:38

was all downhill from there

29:42

He sexually assaulted her and then smothered

29:44

her with a pillow

29:46

Martha's care worker

29:48

sadly discovered her body the next

29:51

day worst

29:53

of all in the case of This particular

29:55

Martha was that I wasn't

29:58

able to find much information about

30:01

Martha,

30:02

either in life or related

30:04

to her death

30:05

beyond that. Okay.

30:09

So that's always a little upsetting.

30:11

Yeah. Martha's such a sweet

30:13

name too. He is. Oh, Martha.

30:17

During the early morning hours of December

30:20

30th, 1992, he kidnapped

30:25

Shantae Woodman, who was

30:27

his youngest confirmed victim

30:29

at just 23. He

30:32

raped her, shot her, and then

30:35

carelessly dumped her body along US 26 near

30:37

Vernonia,

30:40

a somewhat rural area

30:42

of Oregon to the west of Portland. Yeah.

30:45

Especially back then it was more rural. I'm

30:47

sure. rural. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

30:50

He fell all over the place, this guy. He

30:52

really did. And this is where it's

30:55

kind of odd, but

30:58

he didn't do it alone.

31:01

Oh, Shantae had accepted

31:03

a ride from Caesar and

31:06

Leonard Darcel in downtown

31:08

Portland. The two beat

31:11

and sexually assaulted her and

31:13

began to drive away.

31:15

It's the Smuckers Uncrustables

31:17

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31:21

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31:23

the edges. Please welcome Krust. Thanks

31:26

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round with soft pillowy bread. Hey. Filled

31:30

with delicious PB&J. Are you talking

31:33

about yourself? And you can take him anywhere.

31:35

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31:37

out of time. Are you really cutting

31:40

me off? Uncrustables are the best

31:42

part of the sandwich. Sorry,

31:44

Krust.

31:45

With the Lucky Lands, you can get

31:47

lucky just about anywhere. This

31:50

is your captain speaking. We've got clear

31:52

runway and the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle

31:54

up here a while and get lucky. Oh,

31:57

no, nothing like that. It's just these cash prizes

31:59

add up quick. I suggest you sit back, keep

32:01

your tray table upright, and start getting lucky.

32:04

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32:16

However,

32:17

when they looked back, they realized

32:20

that she was not only still alive,

32:22

which was apparently a surprise,

32:25

but that she was moving. Oh,

32:27

I don't know, probably trying to get the fuck

32:30

away.

32:33

The pair returned,

32:35

only to beat her with the butt of a pistol

32:37

before shooting her in the head and throwing

32:40

her body over a guardrail. Why?

32:45

Oh my god, that's so sad.

32:48

A highway worker discovered her

32:50

body later that day.

32:55

Literally not a single one

32:57

of these stories was anything

32:59

short of heartbreaking, but if this last

33:01

one doesn't get you right in the feels, you

33:04

may be not dressed up as something

33:07

like The Walking Dead, but for realsies,

33:10

dead inside.

33:14

As he attacked 63-year-old

33:16

Betty Williams in her Portland apartment,

33:19

she suffered a heart attack that

33:21

would prove fatal. Oh,

33:23

God.

33:25

He had been drinking with Betty

33:28

Lou Williams at her apartment during

33:30

the early morning hours of January 6, 1993.

33:35

When she went into her bathroom, he

33:38

followed her, produced a weapon, and

33:40

began to sexually assault her. He

33:42

left her partially clothed

33:44

body in her bathtub,

33:46

where her son

33:49

discovered her the next day. Oh, her

33:53

poor son. Oh my god.

33:56

The pure, unbridled,

33:59

rage that that inspires

34:02

within me is

34:07

Yeah,

34:08

barely contained

34:11

Barone was arrested on February 27th 1993 so

34:17

not long after He found

34:19

guilty of numerous crimes, but

34:22

it wasn't until 1995 that

34:25

he was found guilty.

34:27

So that's a long-ass time. Yeah

34:29

it is That same

34:31

year he was sentenced to death

34:34

But in any case it wouldn't be

34:37

until December 24th of 2009 That

34:41

Caesar Barone died at the Oregon

34:43

State Penitentiary in Salem Not

34:46

of a lethal injection but of

34:48

cancer. Oh

34:51

Okay, which I have to say sounds even

34:53

better than a white Christmas. Yeah, I

34:55

I agree Hot take but

34:57

I do think that rapist and murderer should

35:00

die a slow and painful and

35:03

ideally natural death

35:06

Because biology is far

35:09

crueler in most cases and willing

35:11

to do the dirty work So we all get to at

35:13

least feel like we walk away

35:15

hands

35:15

clean. Yeah

35:18

All right. Good. Go

35:19

around the same page. That's that feels good

35:22

But the house in southeast Portland isn't

35:24

officially 7734 anymore

35:28

at the street and It hasn't

35:30

been for allegedly going on

35:32

nearly 25 years. In fact. Oh, okay. Yes and

35:37

Some time ago one

35:39

of the owners That

35:42

the house has changed hands to

35:45

and fro amongst over

35:47

the years he decided to

35:49

officially have the

35:51

street address changed and

35:54

In fact for many years,

35:56

it sounds like the house actually hasn't even had

35:58

a number on

35:59

the outside. Oh,

36:01

okay.

36:02

Currently, it has a house number,

36:05

again, not 7734. I can't imagine

36:09

why they would want to change the

36:11

address. Yeah. Now, there's

36:14

obviously the association that

36:16

you know, it's kind of tenuous with these crimes.

36:19

But the funny thing is, I

36:22

had to watch the YouTube video to

36:24

understand

36:26

why are they calling it a

36:27

hell house?

36:29

Right. Okay, so look at 7734,

36:33

turn it upside down,

36:35

and it

36:36

spells hell.

36:38

Backwards.

36:39

Oh my god.

36:41

What? Yeah,

36:42

let

36:44

me see it. You have to show me right

36:46

now. Oh,

36:49

I see it now just looking

36:51

at it. Oh my god, that's crazy.

36:54

I wonder like who

36:56

the first person was to figure that out

36:59

and why.

36:59

Right? Well, and

37:02

what came first? Did someone realize

37:05

that connection

37:06

with the house number? And then it

37:10

kind of had like this little bit of spooky

37:13

mythology behind it. And

37:15

then all of this stuff happened and it just

37:17

became like confirmation bias.

37:20

I don't know. That

37:22

is really weird that a house that

37:25

just happened to have this number also

37:27

happens to be connected to all this

37:30

murder.

37:31

I know. I know. Something's

37:33

not right here. Yeah.

37:35

All of the crimes we've discussed today

37:37

are decades old as well

37:40

as the house, as the change

37:42

of the address, all of that.

37:45

And mostly the crimes are only

37:47

connected tangentially to the house

37:50

itself by

37:51

happenstance.

37:53

So I feel like the house number is

37:56

what really seals it as

37:58

a hell house. Yeah.

37:59

than me.

38:01

Lawrence committed his crime

38:03

long before the tragedy took place in

38:05

the Southeast Portland home. And

38:07

though one of their victims did live

38:10

in the home briefly, Caesar

38:12

and Leonard seemingly have no

38:14

other connection to it. And

38:17

like we talked about at the beginning,

38:19

you know, Vicki's

38:22

interest in the paranormal and afterlife,

38:25

I don't think it has anything to do with the

38:28

house

38:28

or with the murders.

38:30

I don't think so either. No.

38:33

So what exactly is

38:35

the takeaway here? Yeah,

38:37

what is it?

38:40

Aside from our parents being

38:43

seriously misguided in

38:45

thinking that Hillsborough

38:47

was a safe,

38:48

sleepy suburb to raise us in.

38:51

Seriously. Literal insanity.

38:53

It's that

38:55

any house can be a hell house.

38:58

And if we try hard enough, there's

39:01

a horrific connection to something

39:03

awful that's happened in our

39:05

world in almost any

39:08

scenario that you run through the simulator.

39:11

But it's true. And while

39:13

I hope that gives you the spooky season

39:15

scare that you're probably looking for,

39:19

I also hope that it encourages

39:21

you to be safe

39:24

and to

39:25

look out for other people.

39:28

Yeah,

39:29

don't don't go making hell houses

39:31

all

39:31

around America. No

39:33

more hell houses. Okay, listen, we've we've

39:35

got enough of this. Yeah, we've got enough.

39:38

Okay. Also, I want the

39:40

numbers on my house so that I

39:42

can have my own hell house without the actual

39:44

hell. Yeah. I'll make it I'll

39:47

make it a good hell vibe. Yeah.

39:49

Yeah, I think so. I feel like

39:51

this this house could have gone

39:53

either way. I

39:54

think that's sort of what I kept

39:57

going back to.

39:59

It's a really cute little house.

40:01

Well, I hope that whoever lives there now, since

40:05

they had the address changed and everything, hopefully

40:08

they feel comfortable there and there's

40:10

no more

40:11

bad spiderwebs shooting

40:13

out of the house anymore. Yeah,

40:14

no more threads guys, no

40:16

more threads.

40:17

Cut those ties.

40:19

Yeah.

40:20

Well, I have a spooky

40:23

little story, a personal story,

40:25

ooh, from

40:26

when I visited my great grandma in

40:29

Le Grand recently, which

40:31

I realized I mentioned it in the last

40:34

episode when we were talking about it and editing,

40:36

I was like, man, I don't sound

40:38

really excited. For

40:41

whatever reason, I was like, oh, I'm going to see my

40:43

great grandma. Like I didn't sound excited,

40:45

but I was. I just want everyone to know. I

40:49

don't know why it sounded like that. Well, because I wasn't

40:51

going to St. Helens or whatever we were talking

40:53

about. So I was like, yeah, I'm sad about that, but I'm going

40:55

to see my great grandma. Anyway,

40:57

which I did end up going to St. Helens. I

41:00

know you're dead. I went anyway, I did

41:03

both. Anyway,

41:06

something kind of spooky happened to me while

41:08

we were there. I'm

41:10

so excited to tell you. So

41:13

my aunt and my cousin were staying in an Airbnb

41:16

and we met up with them and they

41:19

were so spooked out about the house because

41:22

it has a creepy basement. Oh,

41:24

no. No, thank you. So

41:28

they

41:28

were super uncomfortable with it.

41:31

They were kind of like, no, we don't, we're kind

41:33

of thinking about switching

41:33

houses. Like we don't want to stay there.

41:36

And I was like, oh, it's just a creepy

41:38

old basement.

41:40

I want to come over.

41:41

Oh my, what? Do

41:44

you see what she does to me?

41:47

I was excited. That's terrifying.

41:49

Continue.

41:51

So I went over to check out the creepy basement.

41:54

Great

41:54

to do. Oh my God. It

41:56

was definitely creepy. I sent you a video of me

41:59

going down there. It was like an unfinished

42:02

very tiny basement.

42:04

I don't like like wooden stairs dirt

42:07

floor No walls like there was

42:09

holes in the walls with storage, you know,

42:11

yeah, I remember I asked you You

42:13

were like, oh I take a short little clip I'm

42:16

nothing and I was like am

42:18

I gonna be able to sleep tonight if I watch this

42:20

Should I save this and watch it in the morning?

42:22

So I have hours to process the trauma

42:25

I don't think anything

42:26

spooky was in the video

42:27

not that I recall I didn't rewatch

42:30

it. I was watching it like through my mostly

42:34

Watching it through my fingers like a kid in a closet.

42:36

I should give you a warning like nothing Nothing's

42:38

gonna pop out at you. I'm not that mean I'll

42:41

warn you if it's creepy So

42:44

anyway, we were checking it out and I was like, you know what

42:47

everyone leave Shut the door and turn

42:49

off the lights and I'm gonna just sit

42:51

down here for a second just to

42:53

see how it feels Not

42:56

good It felt fine.

42:58

Nothing. Nothing happened The

43:01

basement seemed fine to me, but I

43:03

told them I was like, okay if anything's down here

43:06

Don't like bug

43:07

my family. They're not interested

43:10

bug me now if you want to nothing did

43:14

unfortunately But

43:18

They told them, you know Stay

43:21

down here. Don't bug anyone mind

43:23

your business, you know, how you do how you have to

43:25

you have to be stern with the ghost manners

43:29

But so I said something spooky did

43:31

happen So me and my cousin

43:33

were sharing a beer and

43:35

it's a get spooky pumpkin beer

43:38

From side a brewing and Legrand. They're

43:41

not a sponsor. I just really really like their beer.

43:43

Yeah I'm showing the camera and

43:45

it's not on. Yeah, I'm an idiot.

43:47

We'll show the patreon in our Tarot It's

43:50

a really cute little can with a ghosty

43:52

dog on it dress like a pumpkin. It's

43:55

so cute so anyway,

43:57

we were sharing this beer and

44:00

There was me, my mom, two of my

44:02

aunts and my cousin just sitting in the living room talking.

44:05

And all of a sudden we hear like

44:07

two chimes or we

44:09

weren't really sure what it was.

44:11

It was kind of like

44:14

sound and we're all like looking

44:16

around like, okay,

44:18

what was that something? It didn't sound like it

44:20

was outside. It sounded like it was in the house. So

44:23

looking around for like a clock because it kind of

44:25

sounded like a clock and

44:28

we didn't see anything that could make the sound.

44:30

And so I'm looking and in the

44:32

corner where it kind of came from, we all

44:35

kind of looked at the same corner when it happened.

44:37

Oh God, that's...

44:38

So I go over there and

44:41

there's two gold

44:43

chalices that

44:44

kind of like, kind of like,

44:46

oh, they're kind of shaped like the ones we have right now.

44:49

But they're gold with some

44:52

sort of design pattern on them.

44:54

I have the picture. Maybe I should

44:55

show you really quick.

44:57

Yeah. Show me the creepy haunted

45:00

chalices. That's... They're

45:02

not haunted.

45:03

Um, big to differ.

45:06

Okay.

45:06

They're

45:07

in a fucking box. They are

45:09

in a box. So these

45:12

two gold chalices are sitting in a box

45:14

of silk. Like they have their own little nest. They

45:16

can't touch, right? So

45:19

I pick them up and I go, cling,

45:21

cling. The

45:23

exact sound we heard. I

45:25

clinked these fucking glasses together.

45:27

It was the exact sound.

45:30

And we were all like, you know, maybe something fell

45:33

onto

45:34

like the, there was an air conditioner. Maybe

45:36

something fell on that outside or

45:38

something. But I

45:40

was like, no, that was the exact

45:42

sound that we heard from that corner.

45:46

So I think I took it as

45:48

they're cheersing with us. Cause we did, we

45:50

did cheers with our cups

45:53

of beer.

45:54

Doing a little toast. I think they were just hanging

45:57

out. A little ghost toast to

45:59

us.

45:59

And they were just saying, it's fine.

46:02

Like you're listening to an episode of P and

46:05

W haunts and homicides on true

46:07

crime by indie drop-in. We're going

46:09

to take a quick break.

46:11

And now back to this episode of

46:13

P and W haunts and homicides.

46:15

We're not going to bug anyone. We're just here toasting

46:18

with you. And I don't know if that's how

46:20

my aunt, my cousin took it. Yeah, it was

46:22

a little creeped out. But yeah,

46:25

as far as I know, they stayed there and everything was fine.

46:27

Okay. You've heard from them since,

46:31

I think. Mom, are they okay?

46:34

Oh my God. I am so okay.

46:38

They did tell me some spooky stories too while we

46:40

were there. Like kind of after that happened,

46:42

it opened a door into spooky story

46:44

land. Yes. Oh,

46:47

I thought it was pretty cool. They're, well,

46:49

they're a little more uncomfortable with it. They

46:52

don't think it's so cool. They're team Caitlin. Yeah.

46:55

Yeah. Oh my God.

46:58

But

47:00

that was my fun little story. I also stopped

47:02

at Margie's outdoor store on the way home.

47:04

Oh, we were passing

47:06

right by

47:07

and I was like, I gotta go check

47:09

out this place. How could you not? It

47:11

was so worth it. Yeah. It was really cool.

47:14

We actually met James.

47:15

Yeah. He was there when we walked in the door

47:17

and I was like, Oh, hey, you were on our podcast.

47:20

Yeah. He's like, Oh yeah. Hi.

47:22

So, yep.

47:23

I've been chatting and I have a bunch of videos

47:26

and pictures from it. So I'm sure I'll

47:28

say, I think you've already shared some of

47:30

that on the socials. Haven't you? I

47:33

don't think so. No, I haven't talked from Margie's. Maybe you just sent

47:35

it to me. Yeah. Sometimes

47:38

I get to see stuff first. Yeah. Part

47:40

of the show. She, uh, she

47:43

gets

47:43

a sneak peek before you guys know. She's

47:46

special. Well,

47:46

should we do some.

47:51

Tarot? Tarot? Tarot.

47:55

Tarot for hell house. Tarot!

47:57

I'm excited

47:58

for the Tarot now.

47:59

Now that we're done with the murder.

48:02

Yeah, there was so much

48:05

murder. It was so sad. Pretty

48:07

murder heavy even for me. Yeah.

48:10

Yikes. Sorry, everyone.

48:15

I'm apologizing on behalf of Caitlin

48:17

for her true crime side. Wow.

48:22

I'm just kidding.

48:23

OK. You're lovely. I mean,

48:26

I had my moments.

48:30

OK, I'm going to do some shuffling

48:33

of the deck.

48:35

Shuffle game cards.

48:38

Do you like our Hell House back there?

48:43

We had to have our own. I know. She's

48:46

cute. OK. Hell

48:49

House deck. Hell

48:51

House energy.

48:54

Let me do one more. Got

48:56

to get that H-H-E.

48:59

I was going to keep going, but I decided

49:01

against it. You did? Oh my god.

49:04

We got the death card, didn't we? No. Oh.

49:08

Double

49:08

card?

49:09

In reverse. Oh, OK, cool. Here,

49:12

Vanna. OK, we got the double card

49:14

in reverse. How fitting for Hell

49:16

House.

49:19

Oh, no. Oh, pumpkin

49:20

the table. That

49:22

was a close one. Don't spill the pumpkin

49:24

beer.

49:26

Get spooky pumpkin beer from side

49:28

A brewing in Legrand, and they

49:30

told me the dog's name, but I don't

49:32

remember. But it is not a

49:34

dead dog, even though it is portrayed as a

49:36

ghost.

49:37

It's an alive dog.

49:38

He's dressed up for Halloween, OK? Yeah. Don't

49:41

take everything so

49:41

literally.

49:43

Boltoms up. It's literally the best

49:45

pumpkin

49:45

beer I've ever had. It's really good.

49:48

I bought two floor packs

49:50

to take home, and we went there twice.

49:54

OK. So

49:56

our devil card. Keywords

49:59

are obsession. induction, indulgence,

50:02

fear,

50:03

materialism, and egotism.

50:07

And

50:08

many decks picture a medieval

50:10

Christian type double complete with

50:12

horns, hooves, a hairy tail, and

50:14

a pitchfork.

50:17

The Rider Waite Smith deck shows

50:20

two small human-like figures at

50:22

the doubles feet, one male

50:24

and one female, with chains around their

50:27

necks that represent bondage of the

50:29

material realm. Notice

50:32

the chains are loose though, and

50:34

the people could easily slip them off,

50:36

suggesting this card is about self-imposed

50:39

limitations. When

50:42

you think of the devil, what comes to

50:44

your mind? Consummate evil,

50:46

a

50:47

mythical creature, a

50:49

symbol of human indulgence, ignorance,

50:52

egotism, greed, and

50:54

irresponsibility. Listen,

50:57

lots of people are irresponsible. It doesn't

50:59

make

50:59

them evil, okay? I just have to say,

51:01

I think of hell. Yeah, me too.

51:04

Go figure.

51:06

I think of the devil as the

51:08

obsession card.

51:11

There is an extra excerpt, but

51:13

we're gonna circle back to them, because I want to get into

51:15

the interpretation. Reversed,

51:18

the devil indicates you feel trapped

51:21

in a situation over which you

51:23

think you have no control. I

51:26

feel like that's very fitting for this house. The

51:28

house was trapped as Hell House until they changed

51:31

the number. I kind of think so, yeah. I

51:33

feel like that really speaks to me

51:35

on that front. Did you know if

51:37

anyone was obsessed with seeing

51:40

the house, or did it have a lot of people coming

51:42

by to see it? It doesn't

51:44

seem like it. I think it's just sort of a

51:47

local legend type thing.

51:50

It says, you may believe your options

51:52

are limited or blame someone else

51:54

for your problems, but if you're honest

51:57

with yourself, you'll see your own.

51:59

ideas and fears are causing

52:02

the problem.

52:03

Be careful

52:04

of a quick fix. You probably need

52:06

to do some serious work, both inner

52:09

and outer, to solve the issues and move

52:11

to a better place. Oh my

52:13

gosh. So

52:16

they can't just change the number. They had

52:18

to like close that fucking

52:20

house I'm sure. Yeah. I don't

52:23

know if the house is currently occupied. I have

52:26

looked at it on Google Earth. I don't, that

52:29

gets updated every so often. I didn't

52:32

remember to check the date. Um, but

52:35

it did look, it did look like someone

52:37

was living there. Yeah. Don't go

52:39

by trying to figure out. Don't please

52:42

don't Google it and try to go. That's

52:45

rude. That's right. Don't be a

52:47

dick. Yeah. Stick around. Don't

52:49

be a dick. In a reading about

52:51

money. The reverse devil suggests

52:54

greed may cause you to engage in

52:56

unethical practices or

52:58

profit at other people's expense.

53:02

Remember the saying love of money

53:04

is the root of all kinds of evil. Ooh.

53:08

Sometimes this card means someone

53:11

else owns you due to indebtedness

53:14

or your lust for money. That's interesting

53:17

because people own the house.

53:18

Yikes.

53:19

Perhaps you engage in self destructive

53:22

practices

53:23

working so hard, you damage your health

53:26

or allowing your employer to take advantage

53:28

of you. The reverse devil can

53:30

also mean working for a corrupt

53:33

organization or in a shady

53:35

activity. In a

53:38

reading about love, your self esteem

53:41

may be compromised by a relationship

53:43

in which you are devalued.

53:45

Oh, this card speaks

53:47

of codependence, manipulation,

53:50

delusion, and deception.

53:52

Don't walk away. Run.

53:54

Run from the

53:56

hell house.

53:58

Yeah. I

54:00

feel bad for attacking this house for being

54:03

evil when it was people who caused

54:05

the evil, but still. Yeah, no,

54:07

I definitely agree. I think it's, yeah,

54:09

it's not

54:12

so much. I don't think that the house

54:14

is really the problem. The address is just

54:16

sort of a coincidental

54:18

thing.

54:20

How funny is it too that it has hops on

54:22

the card and we are featuring

54:24

beer today? Yeah, because we don't drink a

54:26

lot of beer, to be honest, but okay.

54:29

Yeah, that's awesome.

54:31

Okay, are you ready?

54:35

Yeah.

54:35

The beast is always

54:37

the dark face of the

54:40

handsome prince,

54:41

which is literally Bundy. That's

54:45

Bundy in a nutshell. I

54:47

hate it. I hate it. Did we pull

54:49

a card? No, we didn't pull a card for our quotes

54:52

Bundy episode where we did this birth chart

54:54

because we were like, that's the

54:57

witchy stuff. Yeah. Oh

55:00

my God. Oh, creepy. Oh,

55:03

that was the perfect card for this, the devil

55:05

card. Yeah, it's just situated

55:07

right between the tower and

55:10

I forget the numbers and

55:12

temperance in the major arcana.

55:15

So just seeing what's in there in a very

55:18

number 15.

55:20

Tomorrow's the 15th. It is.

55:23

It is. Okay,

55:26

I'm ready to wash this case clean

55:28

out of my system.

55:29

If I'm being honest.

55:31

All right, I'm ready to, I think we

55:33

had our fun.

55:38

We have something today.

55:41

We have a Patreon shout out.

55:43

Oh yeah. Yeah, we have a new Patreon

55:45

Jessica. Jessica. Hi

55:48

Jessica, welcome to the creepy people tier.

55:51

Yes. We hope you love your personalized

55:54

welcome card with your mini tarot reading

55:56

inside. Oh yeah. There

55:58

might have

55:58

also been some spoots.

55:59

confetti in there we don't know can't

56:02

remember if I put it in or not but

56:06

post a picture of what you got

56:08

let us know yeah we love to see the

56:10

cards I know I want to see we're kind of like

56:13

obsessed with tarot if

56:15

our thing if you can't tell yeah so

56:17

speaking of tarot

56:19

reads

56:20

if you loved listening to our tarot reads

56:23

and want to see it with your eyeballs

56:26

your eyeballs

56:28

also you can get a shout out of your very

56:30

own if you join our patreon

56:32

oh no so much fun

56:34

if you can't support us monetarily

56:36

no worries because

56:38

the easiest ways to support our show

56:41

are absolutely free tell

56:43

everyone and anyone you come into contact

56:45

with about us especially if you

56:48

encounter someone from

56:50

a hell house yeah I

56:52

guess or

56:55

if you encounter the devil let them know

56:57

yeah

56:58

or I guess you

57:00

can leave us a five-star review on any platform

57:03

you can I mean that would really be

57:05

ideal if you have any true

57:07

crime paranormal or witchy

57:09

stories to submit for our listener appreciation

57:12

episodes creepy people chronicles

57:15

please email us at pnw

57:18

hans and homicides at gmail.com

57:21

or you can use our handy google contact

57:23

link in the episode description and

57:26

you know if maybe one of those other

57:29

two scenarios happens at

57:31

the very least just write in about it yeah

57:34

yeah and you can always remain anonymous

57:37

if you choose to send in a story especially

57:39

if it's about uh you

57:41

know some guy flashing you at the

57:44

coffee stand yeah

57:46

which I've heard about recently if you don't

57:48

want to share your name that that happened to you

57:50

but you still want to tell the story let

57:53

us know and they don't have to be from the

57:55

pacific northwest

57:56

yeah Timbuktu

57:57

or Tacoma either

57:59

way

57:59

way.

58:00

There's flashers everywhere. There

58:02

sure are.

58:03

Follow us on all of the socials if

58:05

you don't want to miss out on photos of our

58:08

tarot cards, the beautiful altar

58:10

setups, and a lot of backstage

58:13

shenanigans. Backstage shenanigans.

58:18

You can find our website and link tree

58:20

in the description of this episode to check

58:22

out all of the creepy

58:24

Halloween fun we have to offer. Have

58:27

a creepy-ass Halloween!

58:30

Don't go to Hell House, don't go to Hell in

58:32

general. I mean, don't also that.

58:34

I

58:36

almost said don't be the devil, but I

58:38

don't think the devil's that bad, so I don't know. Yeah,

58:40

really, it's open to interpretation. Yeah, I don't

58:42

really believe in Hell either, so just

58:45

ignore everything I say.

59:23

I also hope it is.

59:25

I know.

59:33

Thanks again for listening to True Crime by

59:35

Indie Drop In Network. If you would like to nominate

59:38

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see you next week!

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