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captivating stories together. Hello

1:05

everyone and welcome to episode 354 of

1:07

the True Crime All the Time Unsolved podcast.

1:09

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always

1:11

is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson.

1:13

Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good

1:15

about you. I'm doing great. I've had a

1:17

really good week. It was

1:19

my youngest birthday this week.

1:21

So we went down, had dinner with

1:23

her and my oldest. I

1:26

was also talking on TCAT about, you

1:28

know, going to a local school this week for

1:31

a leadership program being

1:33

a presenter. And it

1:36

was all about a true crime and true

1:38

crime podcast. It was very interesting. It sounded

1:40

like it was. Yes, I enjoyed it very

1:42

much. Let's go ahead

1:44

and give our Patreon shout outs. We had

1:46

Andy Diamond. Hey Andy. Farrah Brennan.

1:48

What's going on Farrah? Depressed God. Hey,

1:51

depressed. Stevie Ups. What's going on Ups?

1:53

Or UPS. I like that UPS because

1:55

you know I'm an UPS. That's

1:58

why I thought it could be that. I'm not sure. Latiana,

2:01

Lily White. Hey Latiana. Brenda, Pavy.

2:03

Hey Brenda. Jodie R. What's going

2:06

on R? Dory liked the fish

2:08

jumped out at our highest level.

2:10

Well thank you Dory. Wylie Smith.

2:13

Hey Wylie. Deb Medick. Thanks

2:15

Deb. Ashley Barnett. There's

2:17

Barnett. Charlotte Upton. Hey

2:19

Charlotte. Mamie M. Or

2:22

as I call it, M. Just

2:24

M? Yeah. And

2:26

last but not least, Ryan Whitecotton jumped out

2:28

at our highest level. Hey thanks Ryan. Appreciate

2:30

that. And then if we go back into

2:32

the vault. This

2:34

week we selected Rhonda Fritz. That's who I thought

2:37

it was going to be. Is that who you

2:39

thought? Yeah. So you hit it right on the

2:41

head. I did. Right on the head, right? Yeah,

2:43

thanks Rhonda. So we appreciate the new Patreon support

2:45

and the continued support. We also had a Patreon

2:47

merch winner for February and that was Cheryl Ann

2:50

Reed. Man, that's who I thought too. I am

2:52

on top of it. You're on fire. Yeah. Gibbs,

2:55

we have an episode out right now on

2:57

True Crime All The Time where

2:59

we're talking about the murder of 14 year

3:01

old Reena Vert. Reena

3:03

was a victim of

3:05

severe bullying. So we're

3:07

headed to Canada in November, 1997.

3:11

She was badly beaten by a group

3:13

of teens who disliked her. Two

3:15

members of the group, Kelly Ellard

3:18

and Warren Glowatsky, followed Reena

3:20

after the attack and murdered

3:22

her. It's a, it's a very

3:24

brutal episode. It is. Because

3:27

what happened to Reena was especially

3:30

nasty, but it's an

3:32

episode about teens and

3:34

bullying and kind of

3:37

following or falling in line

3:39

with others and not

3:41

making your own decisions and

3:43

the right choices. So it's

3:46

definitely an episode worth listening to. I just

3:48

don't understand why things have to go that

3:50

far. No, no. It was tough for us.

3:53

All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into

3:55

this episode of True Crime All The Time

3:57

Unsolved? I am. We're talking about the murder

3:59

of Nen that crinkle on

4:01

July 14th, 2017. First

4:05

responders found the body of Nanette

4:07

Crinzel, insider home after it was

4:09

destroyed by a fire. Investigators

4:12

soon discovered that Nanette was

4:14

shot in the head before

4:16

the fire started. Cover

4:19

up. Yeah. That's what comes to

4:21

mind immediately, right? There was

4:23

a murder, then there was a

4:25

fire, but the fire was set

4:28

most likely to cover up the murder. Yeah. Nanette

4:31

Crinzel was born on July 26th, 1967

4:33

in New Orleans, Louisiana. She

4:38

worked as a preschool teacher and

4:40

was able to retire in her forties.

4:43

She loved children and animals and

4:45

said that her pets were like her children.

4:48

I think a lot of people will say that. Their pets

4:50

are their babies too.

4:52

Absolutely. I think my wife

4:54

is saying it now that the kids

4:56

are gone to college. You

4:58

know, the little Maltese is that's,

5:01

that's her baby. Coming up with her

5:03

probably right now. Very

5:05

nice to be able to retire in your

5:07

forties. I was thinking the same

5:10

thing. Uh, it's not

5:12

happening much today. And

5:14

I think it's going to get worse as

5:16

time goes by. It just seems like

5:19

we're having to work longer and longer.

5:21

Part of that might be because we're living longer

5:24

and longer. I say that's, that's part of

5:26

it. Then that was

5:28

married to Steven Crinzel, the

5:30

district 12 fire chief and St. Tammany

5:33

parish, then that and Steve

5:36

lived in a small rural town called

5:38

the Cone, which is about 50

5:40

miles north of New Orleans. Steve

5:42

told people that he was dazzled

5:45

by Nanette when they first met in 1994. He

5:49

was married at the time and had

5:51

a young son, but he and Nanette

5:53

got married the following year and moved

5:55

into the home he built in Lecombe.

5:58

You know, some people, they just get dazzled. It

6:01

happens. You see someone

6:04

and you're blown away. And

6:06

I don't know how this all played out. He was

6:08

married at the time. Obviously he got a divorce. I

6:11

don't know if it was specifically because he

6:13

was dazzled or what. It

6:16

may have been. You were dazzled by your wife. Oh,

6:19

absolutely. The first time I saw her,

6:21

I knew that I was dazzled. Better

6:25

than being beat dazzled. No, at one point I

6:27

thought I was beat dazzled. Okay. Steven

6:30

Nanette lived on a wooded 100

6:32

acre property. There's

6:34

a dream. That is man, to

6:36

have just a bunch of land. No

6:40

one around you. You can

6:42

do whatever you want. Steven

6:44

installed nine security cameras near the

6:46

gate and on the outside of

6:48

the house to help Nanette feel

6:51

safer. The couple also owned 30

6:54

guns and Nanette knew how to use

6:56

them. The couple liked to practice

6:58

target shooting on the property and that's something

7:00

you can do if you've got a hundred

7:02

acres. You know, you can shoot

7:05

guns out there. You can ride four-wheelers. You

7:07

could do a lot of different things, but

7:09

you could also see why maybe

7:12

someone wouldn't feel all that safe.

7:14

It's not like living in a neighborhood where

7:17

you're surrounded by people. You're

7:20

surrounded by houses. You're not

7:22

surrounded by anything but woods. Kind of

7:24

like that movie, Cabin in the Woods.

7:26

Yeah. Yeah. You never know. Could be

7:28

a little scary. Yeah. Steve was at

7:30

the fire station and Nanette was

7:33

home alone on July 14th, 2017. Detectives

7:37

found grainy surveillance footage from

7:40

outside a local fast food

7:42

restaurant that they believe shows

7:45

Nanette's vehicle going through the

7:47

drive-through at breakfast time. This

7:50

was supported by her cell phone data

7:52

and a credit card purchase. All right.

7:54

So she scooted out, got some breakfast.

7:57

Nothing wrong with that. No, but it's

7:59

also... Two thousand seventeen

8:01

right so please have a

8:04

lot of information at

8:06

their fingertips cell

8:08

phone data we got surveillance footage

8:11

obviously we have credit card. Information

8:14

detectives also said that

8:16

there's surveillance footage from

8:18

another property on the

8:20

road where net lived showing her

8:23

car heading back to the house

8:25

at nine eleven am. Her

8:27

phone record show an outgoing call

8:29

to kmart about a prescription

8:31

refill at ten oh three am.

8:34

So here came are very often anymore no

8:37

i thought they had all gone out of business

8:39

and maybe they all have by now i don't

8:41

know i know all the ones

8:43

around here yeah. A detective

8:45

told the family that in the early

8:47

afternoon the net called a local number

8:50

he sat down with the person she called woman

8:52

said it must have been a

8:54

miss dial because. She didn't

8:56

know net or see what

8:59

i think you know what all of this

9:01

is allowing detectives to do is to put

9:03

together a pretty good time. Of

9:06

the nets whereabouts and what

9:08

she did who she called

9:10

things like that. This

9:12

early afternoon calls a little strange

9:15

yeah i think so but people

9:17

miss dial all the all the

9:19

time or maybe wasn't miss

9:21

dial and you don't know

9:23

why that number was dialed. A

9:25

neighbor called nine one one

9:27

around two thirty pm and

9:29

reported smoke coming from net

9:31

and steve's home first

9:34

responders found the net. Her

9:36

dog and two cats dead

9:38

inside the home the net was

9:41

found on her back on the

9:43

primary bathroom for her

9:45

dog was beside her heartbreaking but we

9:47

know how dogs are they

9:49

just stay with their owner.

9:53

All the way so loyal and i know

9:55

this is hard for a lot of people because

9:59

in our show. we talk

10:01

about death a lot. Most

10:03

of the time we're talking about the death of people.

10:06

Yeah. Which is always sad, it's

10:09

always tragic, but when

10:11

animals are involved as well, it

10:13

becomes that much more tragic and

10:16

it can be tough to handle. Steve told

10:18

people that his cousin called him to

10:20

tell him what happened. He arrived

10:22

30 minutes later and saw

10:24

that his wife was dead and his

10:27

home was completely destroyed. 30 minutes,

10:31

that completely changes your life.

10:34

Yeah. From the time that you get

10:36

the phone call to the time you

10:38

get home and your life will never be the

10:40

same. And the fact that fire was involved

10:43

and being a firefighter, I think

10:45

that adds another layer there, right?

10:47

I mean, because I'm sure he's wishing that

10:50

he could have somehow been there. Because

10:52

he could have done something probably more

10:54

so than most of

10:57

us who know very little about

10:59

firefighting. Then that's autopsy

11:01

took place the following morning and

11:03

that was when investigators learned that she

11:05

didn't die in the fire. Then

11:08

that had been shot in the head. Fire

11:10

investigators soon learned the fire was

11:12

arson and the arsonist

11:15

made efforts to destroy video

11:17

evidence. The cameras outside the

11:19

house fed into a

11:21

digital video recorder in the

11:23

living room which was doused with an

11:25

accelerator. The video footage was stored

11:28

on the recorder, not online.

11:30

And investigators couldn't recover any

11:32

data from the DVR. Even

11:35

the FBI was unable to

11:37

get any video from it. Kind

11:40

of strange, but they couldn't recover

11:42

anything. Well, fire is pretty

11:45

rough on electronics.

11:48

It actually doesn't surprise me all that

11:50

much. Although they have a lot of

11:52

great technology, but you know if

11:55

the if a fire completely burns down a

11:57

house it's probably gonna do some pretty good

12:00

damage to DVR as well. Now

12:03

it's really great to have

12:05

a lot of cameras and all that.

12:08

Obviously, if you could store that

12:10

online, that would have been

12:12

a better solution. For sure. Because

12:15

you can't just get rid of that the same

12:17

way that you can get rid of a physical

12:20

recorder where everything is kept. Yeah. Once it's

12:23

on the cloud, it's on the cloud. Whatever

12:25

the cloud is. Yeah. We still don't know, but

12:28

it's there. It's there somewhere above us. I

12:30

think. Steve told the police

12:32

that the cameras at the front

12:34

gate were controlled by a wireless

12:36

device connected to the internet, but

12:39

they frequently stopped working. The wireless

12:41

device stopped working the day before

12:43

the fire and needed a reset.

12:46

Steve attended a council meeting that night

12:48

and was tired. So he didn't reset

12:50

the device on his way back to

12:52

the house. This means that

12:54

the gate cameras didn't record any video

12:56

on the day of the fire. Another

13:00

second location in the house was

13:02

also doused with an accelerant. It

13:04

was the window of the primary bedroom.

13:07

And it was said that one of the cats

13:09

found near the window had accelerant on its body.

13:12

A fire damaged gun of the

13:14

same caliber as the murder weapon

13:16

was found near the spot where

13:18

Nanette's body was found. During

13:21

the July 15th search, fire

13:23

investigators left behind the destroyed

13:25

DVR and the two

13:28

cat carcasses. On July

13:30

17th, Steve hired a private fire

13:32

investigator who found the cats and

13:34

a shotgun in the wreckage. The

13:36

scene was resecured on July 19th

13:39

after firearms testing revealed the

13:41

two guns seized during the

13:43

initial search. Didn't match

13:45

the bullet found in Nanette's head. The

13:48

Net's 40 caliber Springfield handgun

13:50

was recovered during this search.

13:53

Detectives later told the family that this

13:55

gun could not be ruled out as

13:58

the murder weapon. So there's a lot

14:00

going on here and it was a

14:02

little confusing, right? We've got a number

14:04

of searches. I'm kind of

14:06

surprised that initially the cats

14:09

were left behind. The DVR was

14:11

left behind. Obviously at some

14:13

point, maybe in the re

14:16

securing and that search, the DVR was

14:18

taken because we know it was tested.

14:21

They found out that they, they couldn't get anything

14:23

off of it, but that was

14:25

at least four days later. Yeah.

14:28

I'm surprised they found that shotgun in

14:30

the wreckage too. And it all

14:32

of that wasn't found right away.

14:34

Yeah. I thought that was very strange.

14:37

Now what's not strange is

14:39

that Steve was one of the first suspects.

14:42

That shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

14:44

He's the husband. Right. He's going to

14:46

be looked at. He's also a

14:48

firefighter. So if anybody knows how

14:50

to start a fire,

14:53

how to use accelerants, it

14:55

would be him. Sure. According to

14:57

people, the net's father, Dan

14:59

Watson reported that she wanted out

15:02

of the marriage after she learned

15:04

Steve had an affair, then

15:06

that told a friend. She knew about the affair

15:08

on her birthday in 2015. And

15:12

Steve has admitted to cheating on the

15:14

net with a colleague, but he claimed

15:16

he and the net had worked through

15:18

it. People do that all the time. They

15:21

do. And sometimes they can't. And

15:24

it ruins a relationship,

15:26

you know, beyond repair. Steve

15:28

was also on duty at the firehouse

15:31

when the fire started. Potential

15:33

alibi. Yeah. And potentially

15:35

a very good alibi, at

15:37

least for actually

15:39

starting the fire. Right. We talk

15:42

about that all the time. What does an alibi

15:44

do? Well, it could

15:46

mean that there's no possible way you could

15:48

have been at the murder scene. Does

15:50

it mean that you didn't plan it?

15:53

She didn't hire somebody? No, obviously it

15:55

doesn't mean that. In August,

15:57

2018, a sheriff's detective. told

16:00

in the Nets family is quoted by

16:02

WWL TV. His

16:04

cell phone was plotted by the FBI.

16:07

He goes to the fire station. He's

16:09

around the fire station. Several

16:12

people at the fire station accounted for

16:14

him throughout the day, went

16:16

and met some people at Outback and

16:18

was plotted back to the fire station

16:20

before he got the call that his

16:23

house was on fire. Steve

16:25

also passed a polygraph. So

16:27

things are looking good for Steve. Yeah. I mean,

16:30

I think they are looking pretty good for Steve.

16:32

We don't know what questions were asked. I

16:35

would think that one of

16:37

the questions asked on

16:39

a polygraph would be, you know,

16:42

not just, did you start

16:44

the fire? Did you murder your wife?

16:46

But did you have anything to do

16:48

with it? Did you hire someone, you

16:50

know, something along those lines, although

16:53

never publicly named as a person

16:55

of interest, another individual

16:57

often referenced in connection with

16:59

this case is Steve's

17:02

brother, Brian, family and friends

17:04

said, Brian blamed the net and

17:06

Steve for not helping him evade

17:08

arrest when he got into an

17:10

accident while under the influence, he

17:12

asked them for help getting his mother's

17:14

vehicle out of the ditch. Okay.

17:17

I can see why maybe you'd

17:19

be upset about that, but to

17:22

shoot someone in the head and then burn

17:24

the whole house down. Well,

17:26

she got some major anger issues, right?

17:29

Doesn't make sense. Brian has at

17:31

least 15 convictions for

17:33

different crimes, including battery on

17:35

a police officer. The

17:37

net started discussing her concerns about Brian

17:40

with her family in 2011. That

17:44

year, Nanette told her father, Dan

17:46

Watson that Brian threatened to burn

17:48

the house down. Now that

17:50

sounds a little bit incriminating. And

17:52

she believed that Brian would be a

17:54

danger to them. Once he was released

17:56

from prison, she wrote per

17:58

WWLTS. When he

18:01

says, I will start your house on fire and

18:03

kill you when you come out. That

18:05

is a serious threat to me. Uh,

18:07

great. Very serious. I think

18:09

that's a serious threat to anyone. Anytime

18:12

that you say you're going to

18:14

kill someone, that is something that

18:16

should be taken very serious. Yeah.

18:19

I wonder if she was scared being out there. The

18:21

net wrote in another email, he

18:24

put cameras showing all areas of the

18:26

house and on a monitor up 24

18:28

seven. It records

18:30

as well, have pepper spray

18:33

at both doors and of

18:35

course the gun. So, you know,

18:37

you said no wonder she

18:39

was afraid. I think

18:41

maybe this does kind

18:43

of dovetail into why

18:46

Steve had so many cameras.

18:49

I think he was worried about his brother. I

18:52

think Nanette was worried about his brother. Now

18:55

it does sound like they were fairly prepared.

18:58

Yeah. I mean, I think one way to help

19:01

calm your nerves is to have a bunch of cameras

19:03

up so you can be aware of

19:05

what's going on in your surroundings. And then of course

19:08

they felt they had a defense system inside

19:10

their house. Yeah, they were armed. I mean,

19:12

30 guns is a lot. It is a

19:14

lot. Dan told WWLTV

19:17

that Nanette said to him, so

19:19

long as I have my guns

19:21

and the cameras and I'm at

19:23

home, I'm safe. About

19:26

two months before she died, Nanette

19:28

texted her sister, Kim Watson. He

19:30

threatened to set the house on fire,

19:32

rape me and kill us. Real

19:35

winner of a brother-in-law there. Yeah. Wow.

19:38

So we said, right, Brian was one

19:41

of the main reasons why they had

19:44

so many security cameras, so many

19:46

guns. Nanette and Steve

19:48

also had a geofence that

19:50

signaled Brian's probation officer. If

19:53

he came within 1000 feet of the home. So

19:56

this is getting pretty serious.

19:58

The level of. their concern. Yeah.

20:01

To install one of those. Because

20:03

that's very specific just to him.

20:06

Yeah. You're nervous. And for

20:08

good reason, I think they had good reason to

20:10

be nervous. Steve later recorded

20:12

the conversation with Brian's probation

20:14

officer in which the officer

20:16

admitted the GPS tracking function

20:18

on Brian's ankle bracelet was

20:21

never turned on according

20:23

to WWL TV. You know, for

20:25

the system to work, you

20:27

have to turn it on? Yeah. It's like most things.

20:29

Yeah. I

20:31

have found over my

20:33

50 years that most things don't

20:35

work when they're not turned on.

20:37

Yeah. It's a strange phenomenon. Yeah,

20:40

we're going to put this on your ankle, but don't

20:42

let anybody know. I'm really not going to turn it on.

20:44

Or maybe they made them think that they're turning it on, but

20:46

never turned it on. Who knows? Like

20:50

somebody made a clicking noise, like they

20:52

were pressing the button, but they didn't

20:54

actually press the button. It's

20:56

on now. True crime

20:59

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and coverage match limited by state law.

21:58

In the world. weeks

22:00

before she died, Nanette texted her

22:02

sister saying that her

22:04

concerns about Brian and Steve's lack

22:06

of action were quote, coming

22:09

to a head Steve's

22:11

lack of action. Meaning

22:13

what? She thought he should do more with

22:15

his brother's threats. Well,

22:17

according to Kim, Nanette said,

22:20

if he doesn't start protecting

22:22

me from Brian and his

22:24

family, I'm kicking him out. So

22:26

I would say, yeah, she wanted

22:29

him to do something about Brian.

22:32

I don't know what he was going to

22:34

do. I don't know what he was supposed to do. Dan

22:37

Watson noted that the Friday before the

22:39

fire, Nanette said she was going to

22:42

have a long talk with Steve to

22:44

see if they could make amends and

22:46

come to a resolution about their marriage.

22:49

So, yeah, I think Steve is

22:52

on the radar a little bit. I'm sure

22:54

the polygraph and the fact

22:57

that they could put him at the fire

22:59

station probably eased a little

23:01

bit of concerns on the part of police

23:03

about him. You definitely have

23:05

to be concerned about Brian as

23:07

a possible suspect. Once

23:10

all of this is learned, right, you know,

23:12

the emails, the threats,

23:15

the I'm going to burn your house down

23:17

and kill you and all of that, you're

23:19

going to have to look into it. Yeah.

23:22

And they did, but it

23:24

really didn't pan out because surveillance footage

23:26

showed that Brian was at his mother's

23:28

house on the day of the murder. The

23:31

police also looked into Steve's son,

23:33

Justin, because Nanette claimed on Facebook

23:35

that he owned multiple guns, that

23:38

he was out of state at the

23:40

time of the murder. Now, to me,

23:42

owning multiple guns shouldn't really put you

23:45

on the suspect

23:47

list, but he is part

23:49

of the family. So you are going to look at,

23:51

you know, members of the family and things like

23:53

that. But so far, it seems

23:56

like the three people that

23:59

maybe they They looked at nothing

24:01

really stood out. They couldn't put them there

24:04

at the time of the fire, the time of

24:06

the murder. The coroner announced

24:08

that Nanette was shot in the head

24:11

before the fire started on

24:13

the day of her memorial service, which took

24:15

place a week after she was killed. And

24:18

Nanette's immediate family, they didn't get

24:20

this news from the authorities. Instead,

24:23

another family member read

24:25

a news article and called

24:28

them. I think it's a little rough to

24:30

learn something like that about

24:33

your loved one that

24:35

way. I agree with you. I think it'd be

24:37

really difficult. Dan Watson told

24:40

WWLTV that he was angry

24:42

because he met the coroner

24:44

several days earlier to submit

24:46

a DNA swab for the

24:48

official identification and no one

24:50

told him about it then. Despite the fact

24:53

that the coroner had known about the gunshot

24:55

wound since July 15. And

24:57

I get it. I understand why he would

24:59

be angry. Now, is there a reason why

25:01

they would want to hold that information back?

25:04

We talk about that all the time, but then they

25:06

let it out to the media. So

25:08

obviously at a certain point, that wasn't

25:11

the concern. Why they

25:13

didn't tell the family beforehand. I don't

25:15

know. Just out of courtesy,

25:17

they should have. You would think if

25:20

they're going to tell the media, according to

25:22

WWLTV on the night of the

25:25

memorial service, Stephen formed the family

25:27

that the sheriff's office was leaning

25:29

towards a suicide theory. And

25:32

I guess I could see why

25:34

maybe they might start to lean

25:36

that way. If you've looked

25:39

into a number of people and

25:41

you can't so far put

25:43

anyone at the scene, would

25:46

you then start to think that way?

25:48

And I could see why maybe you would,

25:52

because we do know there was

25:54

a gunshot wound. What I

25:56

don't understand is why someone

25:59

would. Take their life and

26:01

then also feel as though they need

26:03

to set the house on fire right

26:06

also don't believe that most

26:08

people who would choose to do that would

26:12

harm their animals. Yeah i

26:14

don't think so either so some

26:16

of that other stuff doesn't

26:18

seem to line up with

26:21

a suicide there to me at least.

26:24

The net sister kim who is

26:26

a prosecutor in iowa reached out

26:28

to a homicide investigator she knew

26:31

and forensic pathologist comis

26:33

been. They traveled to

26:35

louisiana in september two thousand

26:38

seventeen to conduct a

26:40

third autopsy steve had already

26:42

agreed to an additional exam before

26:44

this. Dr bennett was not

26:47

allowed to perform physical tests on

26:49

the remains but he in the

26:51

homicide investigator viewed the net remains

26:54

reviewed x rays and previous tests

26:57

as well as crime scene photos.

26:59

Dr bennett agree that the net

27:02

death was a homicide because there

27:04

was no soot in her airways

27:07

no blistering on the parts of her body

27:09

exposed to the fire and

27:12

a lack of blood around the

27:14

body. So she didn't have any soot in

27:16

their lungs because she's

27:18

already dead. Yes she wasn't breathing by

27:21

the time the fire started i think

27:23

is what they're saying on

27:25

september thirteen the corner officially

27:27

announced that the net death

27:29

was a homicide. St

27:31

tammany parish sheriff randy smith scheduled

27:33

a press conference for the following

27:36

day in a news release

27:38

the sheriff wrote at this time the

27:41

sheriff's office investigation. Does

27:43

not necessarily support the

27:45

corners conclusion in this

27:47

case okay so

27:49

that is pretty interesting the

27:52

corner is saying

27:54

homicide the sheriff is coming out

27:57

and saying well we don't really

27:59

think that's correct. But at

28:01

the press conference, he said, we

28:03

have worked this case and we

28:05

will continue to work this case

28:07

tirelessly and aggressively as a

28:09

homicide. And we have since day one.

28:12

But yet they don't agree with the findings. Yeah,

28:14

I thought that was a little strange, but they're

28:16

going to work it that way, even though they

28:19

don't agree. So if they don't agree, what

28:21

does that mean? They're still leaning towards maybe

28:24

a suicide? I'm

28:26

guessing. What else could it be? I don't

28:28

know what else it could be. In the

28:30

press conference, Sheriff Smith formally cleared

28:32

Steven Crinzel as a person of

28:34

interest saying at this time, our

28:37

initial primary person of interest

28:39

in this investigation, the victim's

28:42

husband has been cleared. Steven

28:44

Crinzel has been cooperative with

28:46

this investigation from the beginning.

28:49

And that's a big deal because you don't

28:51

have to do that. If you're not 100%

28:53

sure, you don't

28:56

have to come out and formally clear

28:58

somebody. But in doing

29:00

so, you're making a really big

29:02

statement. You are. Like

29:04

we've investigated this guy up and down

29:07

and we can unequivocally

29:09

say he didn't do it because

29:12

you know, for a fact, if later on

29:14

he's taken to trial, that's

29:17

going to come up for sure. That the sheriff

29:19

came out and cleared him. Steve

29:21

returned to work in November, 2017, but

29:24

the fire district board voted to

29:27

launch a civil service investigation and

29:29

the allegations that he misused

29:31

fire district property and

29:34

had an affair with a subordinate. According

29:36

to people, the internal review

29:38

found that Steve had improper

29:41

relations with two female employees

29:43

and allegedly stole AC units

29:45

from ambulances. Okay. Doesn't

29:49

mean he shot his wife, but not

29:51

something you want to hear as someone being the fire

29:53

chief. No, these are things that are

29:55

going to get you in trouble for sure. I'm

29:58

assuming they had. type

30:00

of regulation against having

30:02

relations with a subordinate, most

30:05

places do. I mean, this is,

30:07

you know, separate from

30:09

him cheating on his wife. That's

30:12

bad. But most places, I don't

30:14

think care about that. They're not going

30:16

to fire you for cheating on your wife. No. But

30:19

if you're doing the cheating with someone who works

30:21

for you, they will, or could. And

30:24

to be accused of allegedly stealing AC

30:27

units from the ambulance is why? Why do

30:29

that? I don't even know what

30:31

those are and what you would use them for

30:33

or do with them. I mean, I

30:36

understand what an AC unit is, but. Sure.

30:38

There's probably a market for him,

30:40

but why tarnish your reputation? I'm

30:42

sure the guy was making pretty good money. I

30:45

would think. WWLTV reported

30:47

that Steve said she

30:50

was not his subordinate and that

30:52

the relationship occurred in 2015. Steve

30:57

eventually retired in September, 2018 after he was

30:59

demoted and disciplined. So

31:03

they didn't fire him. It allowed

31:05

him to retire, but I'm sure he didn't

31:07

get as much in retirement as he probably

31:09

would have. I don't know. What

31:11

a rough year and a half,

31:13

right? You got to go

31:15

through losing your wife, losing

31:18

your pets, losing your home, losing

31:20

your home, not

31:22

knowing who did it. And then on top

31:24

of that, being accused of it and trying to clear

31:28

yourself. And then after all that, you

31:30

know, basically being forced out of your

31:32

job. And your reputation

31:34

was kind of tarnished. Yeah. You

31:37

know, along those lines, but some

31:40

of that he did to himself. It

31:42

sounds like to me. Right. You know, when

31:44

it comes to the work

31:47

stuff, if that is true,

31:49

then well, you did that.

31:51

And most likely the work stuff

31:53

probably maybe wouldn't even have come

31:56

to the surface if it wasn't for the fact that his

31:58

wife was murdered. Yeah, because he did. admit

32:00

to cheating. Right. And maybe

32:02

that got back and that's what was

32:04

the catalyst for some of that stuff.

32:07

In November 2018, Steve told people

32:09

he believes the killer was waiting

32:11

for Nanette when she came home

32:13

from picking up breakfast. He said

32:16

she was most likely gone for

32:18

about 30 minutes and came

32:20

straight home from the restaurant. She

32:22

most likely would not have turned on their

32:25

alarm system while she was at home during

32:27

the day. I can see that. You know,

32:29

you're running out, going to get some breakfast.

32:31

Why reactivate the alarm? You know, I'll just, I'll

32:33

turn it off. I'm up. Just get

32:35

some stuff done. I'll come back. No big deal.

32:37

30 minutes. And

32:39

I don't think that most people who

32:42

are home during the day probably turn

32:44

their alarm systems on. I think most

32:46

people, it's used when

32:48

they're away from home and

32:51

some people probably turn it on maybe at night

32:53

when they're sleeping. Yeah. I mean,

32:55

I'm not too worried about it. I don't turn

32:57

mine back on. I figure if they get across

32:59

the moat, maybe they deserve to come

33:02

on in. And the alligators

33:04

and the pit with the sticks

33:06

in it, covered up by leaves. You got

33:08

a lot of stuff going on. I do. Good thing I

33:10

gave you that map on how to get to the front

33:12

door. Yeah. The postal guy is, which one?

33:16

You're on your fifth one now. Steve

33:18

told people, I have suspected

33:20

every single person in my life or

33:23

people we knew on a peripheral of

33:25

our life. And I have to trust

33:27

that the police by investigating

33:29

them and eliminating them, that

33:32

they know their job. So it's down to

33:34

the individual that did it is probably going

33:36

to be somebody that I'm not

33:38

thinking of. I have a feeling it's

33:41

got to be somebody that we

33:43

know either directly or indirectly. And

33:45

I have thought about this in a number of

33:48

cases where, you know,

33:50

let's say there's an unsolved murder of

33:53

a spouse. Well, you have

33:55

a spouse left and if

33:57

they're not involved, wouldn't you almost drive

33:59

them? yourself up a

34:01

wall. Just thinking

34:04

constantly who could have done this?

34:06

Is it a friend? Is it

34:09

somebody that I see all the time?

34:11

Are you looking at people differently

34:14

wondering if they're a killer?

34:17

And I'm thinking you probably are. Then

34:19

that's family questioned if the police

34:21

authenticated the surveillance video of Brian

34:23

at his mother's home on the

34:25

day of the murder. They were

34:27

told that a meeting in August

34:30

2018 that the time displayed on

34:32

the DVR corresponds with the current

34:34

time. WWLTV noted that

34:36

Steve installed the cameras in

34:38

his mother's home. I don't know if

34:40

I feel real solid about that though.

34:43

Not that Steve installed them, but basing

34:46

everything on the time and what

34:49

it says later on. Yeah. Because

34:51

those can be manipulated, I assume.

34:54

In October 2019, the Net's sister,

34:57

Lisa Watson, discovered emails from

34:59

one of her father's accounts,

35:01

which further supported the belief

35:03

that she was deeply afraid

35:05

of Steve's brother, Brian. In

35:08

May 2017, the Net wrote, Brian

35:10

is capable of anything, and

35:12

someone that has nothing to lose is

35:15

full of hate, uses drugs, and

35:18

makes threats, is a loose cannon. Sounds like

35:20

it. And all of those statements are true,

35:22

right? When you have nothing to lose, you

35:25

can be a very dangerous

35:27

person. A loose cannon. By

35:30

2019, the authorities had still not released

35:33

the cause or origin of the fire.

35:35

All they would say was that it was

35:37

set intentionally. I'm surprised they haven't

35:39

released more information at that time. Yeah.

35:42

You know, a lot of time has passed. The only

35:44

thing I can think of is that maybe

35:46

they're holding some stuff back in

35:49

case they do find

35:51

a suspect and they

35:53

want to have something to corroborate

35:56

when interviewing someone. That's the only thing I can

35:58

really think of. The St. Tammany

36:01

Parrish Sheriff's Office has received criticism

36:03

for how they handled the case.

36:06

In 2019, the Sheriff's Office

36:08

made a high-profile arrest related to

36:11

Nanette's case, but the individual

36:13

who was arrested was not

36:15

a suspect in the murder. Jerry

36:17

Rogers, an investigator with the Office

36:19

of the Inspector General for

36:21

the U.S. Department of Housing and

36:24

Urban Development, was arrested on

36:26

September 16, 2019 for criminal defamation. He

36:31

was arrested for criticizing the

36:33

St. Tammany Parrish Sheriff's Office

36:36

and allegedly leaking information about

36:38

the case. I don't know

36:40

how you get in trouble for criticizing the case, but

36:43

I understand how you would get in trouble if

36:45

you leaked information that the public

36:47

wasn't aware of that somehow was germane

36:50

to the case. Yeah,

36:53

I don't think you should be arrested

36:56

for criticizing the Sheriff's Office legally, but

36:58

in a news release, the Sheriff's Office

37:01

said Rogers used a fake name to

37:03

create an email account to

37:05

send messages to Nanette's family. The

37:07

letter claimed that the case

37:10

had been weaponized against Sheriff

37:12

Smith's reelection campaign and that

37:14

Jerry Rogers was uncooperative and

37:17

threatened to end his life when he was arrested.

37:19

Part of the news release

37:21

said, as reported by WWLTV,

37:24

the emails contained false information

37:26

regarding the ongoing investigation as

37:29

well as derogatory statements regarding

37:31

the lead investigators and others

37:33

closely involved in the investigation.

37:36

Rogers is a former employee of the Sheriff's Office.

37:38

He worked there from 1998 to 2009 and left

37:40

of his own accord. So maybe he had an

37:46

ax to grind, maybe he didn't like some of

37:48

the people there, but again,

37:51

just criticizing on its own. Right.

37:54

That I don't understand how

37:56

you can get in trouble for really, if

37:59

you don't work there. anymore. But when

38:01

you get into creating fake

38:04

email accounts, emailing

38:06

the family directly, okay,

38:09

now you're getting into an area where

38:12

maybe you could get in trouble for

38:14

doing some stuff like that.

38:16

A little Jermaine Jackson? You

38:20

just like to say that word. Sheriff

38:23

Randy Smith said, Roger's comments led

38:25

the family to lose trust and

38:27

confidence in the investigation. And I

38:30

could see how that could happen,

38:32

but I still don't understand how that

38:35

part alone is criminal. Now,

38:37

Dan Watson told WWLTV after

38:39

the arrest, Randy Smith

38:41

caused us to lose confidence in

38:44

this investigation. And I think that's

38:46

across the board for every family

38:48

member. So he's kind of

38:50

disagreeing with the sheriff, right? He's

38:52

saying, no, it wasn't these emails

38:55

from Jerry Rogers. It

38:57

was you, right? And your investigation

38:59

that caused us to lose trust.

39:02

Going back to these emails from

39:04

Rogers, one quote from

39:06

one email read, all detectives

39:09

are pissed that Dumbo Sheriff

39:11

brought in person with zero

39:13

homicide experience to take over

39:15

case. Some of Roger's

39:17

emails questioned the qualifications of

39:20

lead detective Daniel Buckner. Rogers

39:23

called him a stone cold rookie.

39:25

Okay. I get that the sheriff's

39:28

office is not going to be happy. No. But

39:30

those comments alone can't lead you to

39:32

get arrested, right? There's got to be

39:35

some other part of it, something

39:37

to do with the

39:39

leaking of information, not

39:42

just criticizing. There's no way.

39:44

Yeah. Because I don't think those

39:46

are interfering with the investigation.

39:49

I think it's just criticizing

39:52

parts of the investigation. A

39:56

sheriff's office spokesman said Buckner has

39:58

led four homicide investigations. and

40:00

assisted with dozens more per

40:03

WWLTV. Sheriff Smith said, it

40:05

is our duty to diligently investigate

40:08

any claim or possible lead that

40:10

may further any open or active

40:12

investigation. In this particular instance,

40:15

our investigators were able to

40:17

uncover the malicious, surreptitious and

40:19

criminal actions of an individual

40:21

whose intent was motivated by

40:23

his efforts to defame, create

40:26

distrust and otherwise prey on the

40:28

emotions of a victim's family. Pretty

40:31

strong word. Very strong words.

40:33

Some good words too, surreptitious. I

40:36

use that at least three

40:38

or four times a day, I'm sure. Yeah. Rogers

40:41

was arrested after Sheriff Smith, fired

40:44

Sergeant Stephan Montgomery, one

40:46

of the lead detectives on the case

40:48

for breach of confidentiality. Montgomery was

40:51

fired on August 20th, 2019. Sources

40:54

close to the case told

40:56

WWLTV that Montgomery was talking

40:59

to Rogers and Rogers

41:01

emailed the net sister, Kim

41:03

Watson, with concerns about the

41:05

investigation. Well, they found the leak then. Yeah,

41:08

they found the leak. I'm still finding it hard

41:11

to find the criminal action around

41:14

what Jerry Rogers did. He got

41:16

some information from somebody else and he sent it to the

41:18

family. Wow, he didn't either. The

41:20

St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office said it

41:23

opened the investigation into the leak

41:25

because the family member contacted them

41:27

with concerns about the email. Montgomery

41:30

issued a statement to

41:32

WWLTV and the

41:34

Times-Picayune in September, 2019. He

41:38

said he was assigned to a

41:40

high profile homicide investigation in

41:42

December, 2018 and

41:45

was tasked with obtaining digital records

41:48

and other evidence that was overlooked. He

41:50

wrote that they were told to think

41:53

outside the box and leave no stone

41:55

unturned. You gotta be careful with

41:57

that think outside of the box saying you

41:59

can get a get you in trouble sometimes. Well, because

42:01

you don't know how somebody else is going

42:04

to take it. The team reached

42:06

out to other law enforcement agencies

42:08

and tech firms for guidance. Montgomery

42:11

wrote, I recently learned that a

42:13

federal agent I had apparently conferred

42:15

with created a fake email address

42:18

and was sending bits and pieces

42:20

of case sensitive information wrapped

42:22

in conspiracy theories to the

42:25

victim's families, as well

42:27

as political camps. Due to

42:29

this leak, my employment was terminated

42:31

because the emails allegedly defamed the

42:34

agency and the investigation. So

42:36

now things become a little more clear.

42:39

If this guy was conferring

42:42

with Jerry Rogers in

42:44

a professional capacity, then

42:46

it does change things. It does. Brian

42:49

Trainor, an attorney who represents Rogers,

42:51

wrote a letter to the sheriff's

42:53

office because of the

42:55

internal investigation into former Sergeant

42:57

Montgomery, as reported by

43:00

WWLTV, Trainor wrote that after

43:02

a conversation, his client was left with

43:04

the impression that someone obtained

43:07

his private email accounts via

43:09

a subpoena or search warrant.

43:11

Rogers reviewed all the emails that

43:13

were forwarded to the net sister,

43:15

and he can say with certainty

43:17

that none of the information contained

43:20

in the emails came

43:22

from any active member of the

43:24

St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office. Rogers

43:27

was merely a conduit of information

43:29

to the family and regrets his

43:31

choice of words and portrayals of

43:34

certain members of the agency. Trainor

43:37

said he was not aware of

43:39

Rogers using a false identity and

43:41

noted that any communication between Rogers

43:43

and Montgomery was communication between law

43:46

enforcement professionals with the goal of

43:48

trying to solve a crime. WWLTV

43:51

also reported that the sheriff's

43:53

office issued an arrest for

43:56

Nanette's sister, Wendy Watson. died,

44:00

Wendy went to the property to

44:02

look at a memorial she thought

44:04

Steve erected at the site. Steve

44:07

called the sheriff's office on her

44:09

for trespassing. Wendy said, I

44:11

was told from inside sources that he was

44:13

doing it to shut me up and

44:15

to get me to stop talking about him and

44:18

to retaliate against me for things I

44:20

have said to the media and things

44:23

I have said on social media. You

44:25

know, that's too bad, you know, that

44:28

you have this tension or issues

44:31

between family members, you know, it's

44:33

her sister, it's his wife, but

44:36

because of this murder, you

44:38

know, they aren't going to be able to get along.

44:41

Well, it also seems like there's a lot

44:43

of retaliation going on, whether

44:45

it's, you know, the sheriff's office,

44:48

the family, Sheriff Randy

44:50

Smith denied this allegation on November

44:52

8, 2019. A judge

44:55

ruled there was no probable cause

44:57

to arrest Jerry Rogers and he

44:59

was released from bond. That's

45:02

the price. No, I'm not surprised either.

45:04

I mean, I think the sheriff's office

45:06

was upset and I

45:08

get why they were upset, but it

45:10

didn't seem legally to me

45:13

at least as a lay person

45:15

that this guy should have been

45:17

arrested for what he had done. I

45:19

don't really agree that he should have

45:21

done what he did, but was it

45:24

illegal? I thought that was a pretty

45:26

gray area there. His attorney,

45:29

Brian Trainor, said the state attorney general

45:31

still had the right to accept the

45:33

charges. The case was turned over to

45:35

the attorney general after the 22nd

45:38

judicial district attorney recused his

45:40

office because Rogers wife worked

45:42

there. In 2020, Jerry

45:45

Rogers filed a lawsuit against

45:47

Sheriff Randy Smith and two

45:49

deputies. His lawsuit stated that

45:51

he was strip searched, jailed, and

45:54

forced to post $3,500 in Bail.

46:00

The been strip searched. For. That ban

46:02

strip search sir have a quite a

46:04

few times too many times you may

46:06

have a lot a lawsuit sometimes by

46:08

outlawing thing thera. Long. For

46:11

law enforcement. Depositions.

46:13

Reveal that the Da's office

46:15

mourn Smith and detectives. It

46:17

would be unconstitutional to arrest

46:19

Rogers for criminal defamation, but

46:22

Smith ordered the arrest Anyone.

46:24

So. Now comes out this year He was

46:26

told by the D a don't do this.

46:29

It's. Not gonna fall. So to

46:31

me, that really does kind of lead

46:33

into the area of retaliation. They were

46:35

mad. They. Want to shut the

46:37

sky up? Or they wanted to? You

46:40

do something to him for the things

46:42

that he had done. In. January

46:44

Two thousand Twenty Two, The public

46:47

Learn that in October two thousand

46:49

Ninety. The. F B I ask

46:51

for a full investigation. Into

46:53

a possible criminal conspiracy at

46:55

the sheriff's office. There.

46:57

Is a lot going on? At

47:00

the St. Tammany. Parish.

47:02

Served soft. Sounds. Like it's

47:04

a busy place. But. Here's my

47:06

class. We've. Talked about all of

47:09

these things going on. Couldn't.

47:11

Really be that not all this stuff didn't

47:13

take away from the investigation because I would

47:15

find that hard to believe. Yeah, I think

47:17

it had to take away from investigation. The.

47:20

Infighting, The. Retaliation.

47:23

You're spending time. On.

47:26

These other things and it's tell taking

47:28

away it has to take away. I

47:30

would think from. Really? Trying

47:32

to get them to the bottom of what

47:34

happens and than that current all right where

47:36

your focus should be. According to

47:38

Debbie Debbie Ltd, the Sheriff's Office

47:40

provides a letter from the F

47:42

B I dated February eleven: two

47:45

thousand twenty that said. D.

47:47

O J supervisors determine the

47:49

caption matter did not warrant

47:51

further investigation. On May

47:54

seventeen, Two Thousand Twenty two,

47:56

a Federal judge ruled that

47:58

deputies illegally arrested Juri. Rogers.

48:01

In August 2023, the US Court

48:04

of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit

48:06

ruled in support of Rogers' lawsuit,

48:08

and his lawsuit was settled on January

48:11

9, 2024 under confidential terms. So I'm sure he did

48:17

pretty well. I'm thinking he did. The

48:19

court backed him up all the way, so

48:22

they kept ruling that the sheriff's

48:25

office was in the wrong. In

48:27

July 2022, WDSU

48:30

reported that the sheriff's office is

48:33

no longer the lead investigator, and

48:35

the St. Tammany DA's office

48:37

took over the case a year and a

48:40

half earlier. Now, why is that? Because

48:44

somebody high up lost

48:46

faith in their ability.

48:49

Yeah. I mean, there was

48:51

the FBI talking about a

48:53

possible criminal conspiracy at

48:55

the sheriff's office. They

48:57

arrested this guy, Rogers, for sending

48:59

some emails. I mean, what's

49:02

going on over there? I think when you

49:04

have the FBI, the DOJ, a case

49:07

at the Supreme Court, I

49:09

think you have to stop and say, hey, we

49:12

need to pull this case out of there, take

49:14

control of it, because I don't know what they're

49:16

doing. Rogers, high profile

49:18

arrest, although it was related

49:20

to Nanette's case, it

49:22

didn't further the investigation into finding

49:25

the real killer. If anything, like

49:27

I said, I think it hurt

49:30

the investigation. It shifted, or

49:33

the focus should have been. Yeah,

49:35

it shifted the focus. It caused

49:37

resources probably to be diverted. Nanette's

49:39

case remains unsolved over six

49:42

years later. I think it's

49:44

a tough case to solve. Anytime

49:47

you have a crime

49:49

scene that is basically destroyed

49:51

by fire, you're going to lose

49:53

a lot of evidence. That's true. I mean, I

49:56

hate to say it, but fire is

49:58

a good way to ... Destroy

50:00

evidence yeah i think

50:02

that's what the individuals probably trying to

50:05

do yeah i'm thinking

50:07

they were hoping that the body

50:09

was destroyed to know i wondered

50:11

about that because. We

50:14

discuss this in cases before it

50:17

does take a very very hot fire

50:20

to completely burn a body

50:23

but you could be right that could have been

50:25

part of the hope. The

50:27

killer because they had to

50:29

have known if it doesn't it's

50:32

going to be really easy to determine that

50:35

net was shot in the head now

50:37

if the body burns even

50:40

if it doesn't burn completely. But

50:42

if it burns to the point

50:44

where the skulls not intact maybe

50:47

then you don't even know

50:50

or can't prove that

50:52

she was killed maybe they just

50:54

wanted to. Cover up the

50:56

evidence but i do think it will

50:58

be a difficult one to solve not possible but

51:01

difficult for investigators and prosecutors

51:04

to charge anyone with her

51:06

murder. They weren't even leaning

51:08

towards the fact that it

51:10

was murder the sheriff's office

51:12

the corner was they were saying

51:14

homicide but the sheriff's office

51:16

kept saying that they were. Investigating

51:18

it as a homicide but they didn't

51:21

agree that it was a website they

51:23

were convinced no which i thought was

51:25

a very strange statement to

51:27

make. Look

51:29

at steve we talked about him they

51:32

were very adamant

51:34

in ruling him out now does

51:36

that come into question. The

51:39

more you learn about what was going on

51:41

at the sheriff's office and i

51:44

hate to put too much on them but obviously

51:47

there was some stuff going on there i got

51:49

the case taken away from them and they were

51:51

in my niche so. Does

51:53

them ruling him out as a suspect

51:56

look differently after learning

51:58

all of the things that. it that

52:01

happened later on. I

52:03

don't know if it does. Maybe it does. Maybe

52:05

it doesn't. I think, you

52:07

know, Brian, there's no

52:09

doubt that Nanette was scared of him.

52:11

I think Steve was worried too. You

52:15

don't set up that elaborate

52:17

of a system with

52:20

a geofence specifically for one

52:22

person, unless you're very worried

52:25

about that one person. Absolutely. You have to

52:27

be worried. Nine cameras. I

52:29

think we said that's a lot of

52:31

cameras, 30 guns. I

52:33

mean, you don't need 30 guns for one person, but

52:36

maybe they just like to collect guns. Some people do,

52:38

but you know, all you

52:40

have to do is go back and kind

52:42

of look at some of those emails that

52:44

Nanette sent to her dad, sent to her

52:46

family. And if Brian really

52:49

said some of those things, which

52:51

I don't know why she would lie about

52:53

that stuff, but I'm going to

52:55

set your house on fire. I'm going

52:57

to rape you and I'm going to

52:59

kill you. You know, it's threatening

53:01

and scary to receive an email like that.

53:04

And then you have to take a look at his

53:07

alibi. It sounded to me

53:09

that it was largely based on

53:11

kind of a

53:14

timestamp of a surveillance

53:16

video recording system. Was

53:18

that time correct? Was it not correct?

53:20

Were they able to validate

53:22

that? I don't know because it wasn't

53:25

in the, the research. Right. They've

53:27

never come out and said like they

53:29

did with Steve, Hey, we've ruled him

53:32

out. He couldn't have done

53:34

it. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, I

53:37

did something wrong this upcoming Monday.

53:40

And I don't change the time on

53:42

my DVR set up

53:44

camera system. It's going to have

53:46

an incorrect time. Right. Because

53:49

it's going to show it's going to be an off an hour. It's

53:52

going to match up what's on the film

53:54

and what's on the device.

53:57

But that's incorrect. If I

53:59

don't manual. change it because of daylight savings.

54:02

Well, so that's one example. The other

54:04

example would be to manually

54:07

change it prior

54:09

to doing something. Yeah. And then

54:12

change it back to being

54:14

correct afterwards. Good.

54:17

To, to throw it off and basically

54:19

say, now I don't know how

54:21

you would do that. I'm not a tech wizard and

54:23

maybe they'd be able to tell that you did it,

54:25

but at the time

54:27

that they believe the murder

54:29

and the fire started that

54:32

time on the video, you

54:34

were there at your mom's house. But

54:36

maybe it wasn't really that time. I don't know.

54:38

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and that's, we

54:40

would have to see the equipment and the

54:42

technology behind it. Yeah,

54:45

really. Yeah. No idea how all that works.

54:47

And then I think outside

54:50

of that, then you're

54:52

looking at possibly a,

54:54

a, a stranger. Maybe.

54:56

Yeah. That saw on the

54:58

net that morning at the restaurant or,

55:00

you know, had seen her before, had

55:03

staked out, had learned their patterns.

55:06

It could happen, but are

55:09

you ever going to catch that person?

55:11

I think it'd be very highly unlikely.

55:13

Yeah. I agree. But that's it

55:15

for our episode on the

55:17

murder of the net. Krentzel, we got some

55:19

voicemails. You want to check those out? If

55:21

it's germane to this episode. It is very

55:24

germane. Okay. And Tito. And

55:26

Tito. Hi,

55:28

my name is Penny calling from the

55:30

Kansas city, Missouri area. I

55:32

was just calling because I just got them

55:35

listening to your story about Robert Copeland

55:37

and I of course was looking him

55:39

up because I always want to see

55:42

what these people look like. And

55:44

I inadvertently typed in the

55:47

name Richard Copeland and

55:49

it pulled up a story about a man

55:51

from Indiana who had abandoned his family

55:53

like 25 years ago. And

55:57

then was found. I didn't get to

55:59

read the whole. But I believe he was arrested

56:01

and put in jail So I

56:03

just thought it was interesting because it

56:05

happened so long ago and it makes

56:07

me wonder if Robert

56:10

Copeland didn't know that story and

56:14

potentially Tried to do

56:16

the same thing Based on

56:18

the same last name. I don't know.

56:21

Anyway, it was just the thought you

56:23

guys are great I'm not on any

56:25

team. Love you both. Keep your

56:27

own time picking All right,

56:30

great voicemail, you know who knows

56:32

but this is what we experience all

56:34

the time Gibbs we talk about it

56:36

sometimes where we're researching

56:38

something and You

56:41

see a case that is

56:43

in the same area or kind of

56:45

a branch off of the case You're

56:47

actually working on that's just

56:50

as bad or very similar or even worse

56:53

Happens all the time all the time interesting

56:55

though. Yeah could be we don't know Hey

56:58

boys, it's Sydney again up in Idaho

57:00

and I I'm

57:02

catching up on unsolved. I haven't listened

57:04

any new episodes I'm because I've been

57:06

catching up on on salt and I

57:08

got to the episode about Debbie wolf

57:11

and boy Do I have opinions on that

57:13

because for what I heard that? They

57:16

the police said that they must

57:19

have her jacket for a barrel

57:22

The first thing I did was I reached out

57:24

to my dad who is a professional diver He

57:26

is a certified diver. He died off the West

57:28

Coast for 15 years as

57:30

a hard-eyed diver down in the water Picking

57:33

up sea urchins and sea cucumbers No,

57:38

absolutely not it is murky as hell

57:41

but I promise you there is no way

57:43

you can mistake a 55-gallon

57:47

barrel for a jacket Home

57:49

and I may be so angry this morning. So

57:51

so angry. Anyway, I just thought you would like

57:54

that input That

57:58

angered me a lot so Anyway, love

58:00

the show. I'll be catching up momentarily. Anyway,

58:02

have a good day, boys. Thanks

58:05

for the voicemail. We always love to get

58:07

information from people who have

58:09

that type of specific knowledge. And I

58:11

think that was a case that angers

58:14

a lot of people. Like the

58:16

things that they said, they just don't make

58:18

sense. And when things don't

58:20

make sense, people get angry. And I

58:22

get that. And frustrated. And

58:24

frustrated. Yeah. That's it

58:26

for another episode of True Crime All The

58:29

Time Unsolved. So from Mike and Gibby, stay

58:31

safe and keep your own time keeping. Pluto

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