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1:48

And

1:53

that was quite clearly a homicide.

1:59

considering she was stabbed 20 times. Several

2:04

of those stab wounds fatal blows,

2:07

which would make it a physical impossibility

2:10

for her to continue stabbing herself

2:13

up to 20 times. The

2:18

problem with this is her death has

2:20

been labeled as suicide by the Philadelphia

2:22

Police Department,

2:25

a department which refuses to investigate

2:27

the death further and

2:29

refuses to change the cause of death to

2:31

homicide, which it rightfully

2:34

should be. Why

2:36

is that? Why is

2:40

it so difficult?

2:42

Why are so many refusing

2:46

to speak the truth

2:48

about the death of Ellen Greenberg?

2:51

We discuss all of that and more in this five-part

2:54

series, our conversation

2:57

with Thomas Brennan, private investigator,

3:00

into the death of Ellen Greenberg. New

3:03

episodes every day this week, Monday

3:05

through Friday, here on the podcast.

3:11

Thomas, thanks for joining me. Let's

3:13

start at the very beginning. How did you get connected

3:16

to this case?

3:19

Two friends of mine, one a retired dentist

3:21

and the other a judge in

3:24

the Dauphin County Court of Common Pleas,

3:27

William Tully. They

3:30

both were friends of the family and

3:33

the parents were struggling. They

3:37

knew what I did, that

3:40

I still worked homicides

3:43

in cold cases. They

3:49

arranged for a meeting with the parents and we sat down

3:52

and the parents told me what

3:54

in fact they would do in this week, March of 2013. They

4:00

provided me with the documentation

4:03

and some photographs that they had, seen

4:05

photographs that were taken by the

4:08

medical examiner's investigator. And

4:13

I told them, I said, well, let me

4:15

take, give me a chance to take a look at these

4:18

and then I'll get back to you. We did, you know, I did. I

4:21

got back to them and I

4:24

told them, I said, well, in my opinion, it

4:26

is in fact is a homicide. And

4:29

they said, well, the father

4:30

Josh, he's a character.

4:33

He said, well, what's this going

4:35

to cost me? And I said, well, I

4:38

don't make money on somebody else's brief.

4:40

I said, if you covered

4:42

my expenses, go to Philadelphia. I said it back.

4:45

I said, you know, that'll be it. You don't have

4:48

to worry about my time. And that's the way it's good.

4:53

And that's all I

4:55

got involved in. This is

4:57

obviously a very troubling case for

5:00

obviously many reasons. One of

5:02

the first most obvious being the likely

5:05

physical

5:06

improbability or

5:08

impossibility that Ellen could have stabbed

5:11

herself 20 times and

5:13

made it through 20 times and still survived

5:16

long enough to do that. When

5:19

you initially heard about this case and you, you

5:22

saw some of that evidence and you heard the story, if

5:25

we're just focusing on, on the manner of death, what

5:28

was going through your mind when

5:30

you learned about it first being looked at as a homicide,

5:33

then a suicide homicide back to suicide?

5:36

What was your reaction

5:36

to that? I

5:39

started looking at it and you know, I'm looking,

5:41

you know, looking

5:44

at the crime scene, you know, and

5:46

there's, first of all, you know,

5:48

you know, I understand what,

5:50

you know, the parents told

5:52

me that,

5:53

you know, the fiance broke into the apartment, et cetera. So, you know, you

5:55

know,

6:00

It was a real stormy, you know, I think it

6:02

was the biggest nor'easter that ever hit Philadelphia.

6:05

A lot of snow, a lot of snow.

6:07

And

6:10

they had an early dismissal

6:12

at Ellen's school. And

6:19

the one thing, I'll never forget

6:21

what they

6:24

told me right at the beginning. There

6:27

were a series of phone calls, okay,

6:29

about

6:30

probably 10 or 15 calls, all out

6:33

going. And

6:38

started with a code. And

6:40

they said, look at this.

6:42

See

6:45

how she was, she was, evidently,

6:48

she was really having a problem here.

6:50

Look at all these phone calls. I said,

6:52

did anybody ever call them to see who they were?

6:55

They said, no. I started calling them.

6:56

They were a

6:58

pair of children in her classroom. Okay.

7:02

Yeah. And the

7:05

code was that they, you know, they

7:07

didn't show where they were coming from. They didn't, you know,

7:09

they didn't show Ellen's cell

7:12

phone. That's all it was.

7:14

Sure. Sure. So,

7:16

you know, that's, that's how things started.

7:19

And then you take a look at

7:21

the crime scene itself. The photograph,

7:24

there are no police photographs, I can tell

7:26

you that right now, of the crime scene.

7:29

The Philadelphia police forensic shooting

7:32

was never at the crime scene. Why?

7:35

Okay. I mean, wouldn't this just

7:38

be a common sense thing

7:40

to do with someone who's been stabbed 20 times?

7:44

Well,

7:46

what you, what everybody has to understand

7:48

here, Tony, is that the

7:53

police did not know about

7:56

the stab wounds to the back of the neck or

7:58

the scalp.

10:00

Alrighty, so The

10:06

police tell the property manager,

10:08

yeah, you can let them in the property manager says well,

10:10

it's all bloody

10:12

The scenes all bloody

10:14

They said well, you can call Christ seen cleanups.

10:16

They'll come over

10:19

So she calls clients Christ seen cleanups

10:22

they come over and clean and sanitize

10:25

the scene Okay,

10:27

he comes in the prominent

10:29

attorney uncle and another individual they

10:32

come in and Not

10:34

only do they get a suit and

10:36

shoes for the hut for the fiance

10:39

for the funeral Okay, they

10:41

also remove all the laptops They

10:44

remove the victim's laptop or work

10:47

laptop for personal laptop and

10:49

her cell phone and all of her credit

10:51

cards her wallet everything he

10:53

takes it all including the

10:56

fiance's laptop also Okay,

11:00

so Anyone who says

11:02

that well, you know Anything

11:06

that comes off those laptops

11:10

At all in the future can be challenged. Okay,

11:12

because the police should have seized

11:14

those right at the scene But they did

11:17

they left is that because they were they were

11:19

still thinking of this as being a suicide

11:21

So there wasn't a lot of oversight

11:24

or he take them all. Okay. Yeah

11:27

And I have you know, like I said, I have

11:29

an incident memo

11:31

By the uniform police officer that was

11:33

at the sea. Okay, and

11:35

He says in that in in

11:38

there. Okay in his in

11:40

his report in his incident report.

11:43

Okay, it's titled

11:45

suicide, okay suicide

11:47

And

11:50

it says Homicide

11:53

was there and so was the

11:55

medical examiner's office. Okay,

11:58

just who shows up to 20 Who? Who?

12:02

At the apartment. The

12:04

police. Okay. The

12:06

performer search. All

12:08

these days later. Now,

12:13

the medical examiner said on

12:15

the 27th, this is awesome. Okay.

12:20

So now because the scene was never

12:22

ever secured, now they

12:24

have to go out and get a search warrant. Sure.

12:28

To go back in and search the apartment.

12:30

Mm hmm. Well, what are they going to get from the apartment?

12:34

Nothing because it's been cleaned and

12:36

sanitized. Yeah. About

12:38

the only thing that you could do, maybe you

12:41

might get some results with a luminol

12:43

test. Mm hmm. They didn't

12:45

even do that. They didn't even do that. This

12:48

is the Hidden Killers podcast with Tony

12:50

Brueske. There's more to come

12:53

in my conversation with Thomas Brennan,

12:56

private investigator into

12:58

the murder of Ellen Greenberg.

13:02

New segments playing Monday through Friday

13:04

this week on the podcast. Be sure to press

13:06

subscribe so

13:07

you don't miss any of

13:10

this very intriguing story. Stay

13:13

with us.

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