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to Fame, new Mondays at 8, 7 Central

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The hit series

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Claim to Fame is back on ABC! From

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and hosted by superstar brothers Kevin

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1:28

of her daughter. A death that

1:30

was quite clearly a homicide considering

1:32

she was stabbed 20 times. Several

1:36

of those stab wounds fatal blows,

1:40

which would make it a physical impossibility

1:42

for her to continue stabbing herself

1:46

up to 20 times. The

1:50

problem with this is her death has

1:52

been labeled as suicide by the Philadelphia

1:55

Police Department.

1:57

A department which refuses to investigate.

2:00

the death further and refuses

2:02

to change the cause of death to homicide,

2:05

which it rightfully should be. Why

2:09

is that? Why is

2:12

it so difficult? And

2:15

why are so many refusing to

2:18

speak the truth about

2:21

the death of Ellen Greenberg? We

2:24

discuss all of that and more in this five-part

2:27

series, our conversation

2:29

with Thomas Brennan, private investigator,

2:32

into the death of Ellen Greenberg. New

2:36

episodes every day this week, Monday

2:38

through Friday, here on the podcast.

2:44

Can you clear up for us

2:46

the door lock? Because

2:48

that always is another interesting point

2:50

on this, where it's similar to

2:52

a hotel door lock. It's the latch that goes

2:55

over. And the story that we had heard

2:57

was that when he got up there

2:59

after getting the maintenance

3:01

person who couldn't break in, but then

3:04

Samuel actually did break down the door and said, well, it was locked

3:06

from the inside. Looks like,

3:09

oh, well, then how could you have possibly been in there?

3:11

And he did check out on security cameras as being

3:13

at the gym in some of that

3:15

time window. What can you speak to about

3:18

the lock and that time

3:20

window as well and

3:22

the alibi that Sam has?

3:25

Well, if you take a look at the door

3:28

lock,

3:33

that sliding bar lock

3:37

is mounted on the door and

3:40

the door jammed. In

3:44

order for that lock to

3:47

open up, once it's placed

3:49

as it should be in a locked position, one

3:52

or the other piece has to

3:54

be completely dismounted before

3:59

it would open. Sure. Before

4:01

you could get in. The

4:06

particle board door on the apartment

4:09

has the mounting

4:11

for that lock. There's four screws in. One

4:15

of them are out, three are still in. Mountain.

4:18

Okay. Where

4:21

should that, where should that particle board

4:23

door? Where should the particle

4:26

from that door be in that

4:28

screw? Okay.

4:34

That particle board, you know, there

4:37

was a name, you know, you take a look at

4:39

the floor, it's not there.

4:41

Okay. So,

4:45

in

4:48

Dr. Lee, it was a very,

4:51

I don't know if you ever heard of him. He's

4:55

renowned forensic

4:57

scientist.

4:59

He has his own institute up

5:02

in the University of Connecticut. Sure.

5:07

I sent it up there and I asked him to take a

5:09

look at it, to take a look at this case. He

5:12

comes back and he says, Paul, you

5:14

know, to me it's

5:16

a homicide. And he said, to

5:18

me there's evidence of cleaning up.

5:22

And I

5:25

also had a crime scene

5:29

analyst, a

5:31

detective, I had him

5:33

take a look at it.

5:35

He says the same thing. Okay.

5:38

So, when

5:40

you see they don't find, you know, there's

5:43

three screws still in the door.

5:46

Okay. The fourth

5:49

screw, you can't find it anywhere. You

5:51

take a look at the floor, there are no, there

5:54

isn't any evidence, there should be some type of wood

5:56

chips or something there. Sure. There's

5:59

nothing. Nothing.

5:59

Because he broke the door down,

6:02

correct? This is what the story is. Do

6:05

we know that he truly did break the

6:07

door down the way it's described?

6:09

No. Okay. No, I,

6:12

you know, I have my own thoughts

6:14

regarding what

6:18

was done with that lock. So, you know,

6:20

and I, you know, I'd rather just, you know, leave

6:22

it as is. The

6:25

Pennsylvania State Police, God bless them. They

6:27

sent me a locks, you know, lock picking school

6:30

down in Florida.

6:31

Okay. Yeah. For a couple

6:34

of weeks. And I did all the sort of titious entries,

6:37

you know, for the state police. So

6:39

don't tell me that, you

6:42

know, anything about, you know, don't tell me that you

6:44

hit that, you hit that door with your

6:47

shoulder. You didn't do that. Okay.

6:50

You didn't do that. And there are, you know,

6:52

there are other witnesses, okay.

6:55

We have other witnesses

6:58

who said that, you know, different

7:01

things that they heard Sam talking. Now,

7:04

the one witness, if you take a look

7:06

at his statement, he

7:08

says, you know, he's down the hall from

7:11

the apartment, but he

7:13

sees Sam and he's looking,

7:16

you know, through this little peephole and door,

7:19

and he sees Sam walking in the hallway.

7:24

What Sam, what he says Sam is

7:26

saying, if you listen to that 911

7:28

call,

7:31

Sam is indicating to the 911

7:34

operator that

7:36

he's in the room. Okay.

7:40

Well, we have a witness that says,

7:42

no, he wasn't in the room when he

7:44

was saying that. He was walking in the hall.

7:47

Really? So,

7:49

you know, all of these

7:52

things, you know, all these things

7:54

are questionable. Mm-hmm.

7:56

So, all these things are out there,

7:58

okay. And. we need

8:00

answers to them. Yeah.

8:03

Guy DeAndrea, this assistant

8:06

district attorney in the homicide

8:08

prosecution unit in Philadelphia,

8:11

when I befriended him, he took

8:13

a look at this case, okay? And

8:16

he said, Tom, my yellow

8:18

sticky should be all over that case. I said,

8:20

yeah. He said, as a matter of fact,

8:23

he said,

8:24

he said, every time I thought, you know,

8:27

well, I'm not really sure about this,

8:30

he said I would propose

8:32

my things to other people in the office.

8:35

And he said, the only thing everybody said

8:37

was, hey, it's a homicide.

8:40

It's a homicide. It's a homicide. So

8:43

now you have Guy DeAndrea, okay? The

8:47

assistant DA in the office,

8:50

okay, at the time, takes a look at, he said

8:52

it's a homicide. He tells the

8:54

supervisor, Jennifer

8:56

Selber,

8:57

you know, Jennifer, I think this is

9:00

all, nothing.

9:03

Okay.

9:06

The same folks, okay,

9:08

same folks, Jennifer

9:10

Selber, Christine

9:13

Hine, Christopher Phillips. Guess

9:19

where all those people went when they left Philadelphia?

9:21

Where? The

9:23

AG's office. Pennsylvania

9:26

Attorney General's office. So

9:30

now, Krasner comes in, gets

9:33

the case, he comes in as DA,

9:36

gets the case, refers it, recuses

9:38

himself and refers it to the Attorney General's

9:41

office.

9:42

The same people who were

9:45

in the Philadelphia District

9:47

Attorney's office. Yeah.

9:51

These people aren't gonna say, oh, now

9:53

it's a homicide. No, it just keeps

9:55

juggling back and forth to the same people who

9:57

don't wanna do anything on this.

9:59

I mean, they didn't do nothing. They

10:03

didn't do a damn thing.

10:05

Not a damn thing.

10:07

Have you looked in? I'm

10:09

sure you have. Is

10:12

there I guess the question

10:14

is more so is Samuel Goldberg

10:17

well enough connected that there

10:19

could theoretically be a cover

10:22

up going on here for people that don't

10:24

want him to ruin his life

10:27

or what have you for a murder

10:29

if in fact that that took place that would have

10:32

the capability of covering

10:34

this up to the level that

10:36

on the surface it appears to be being covered

10:37

up by.

10:42

Well, you know, I refer to this case.

10:46

Okay, that's not a lift not

10:48

enough litter in the box. Okay. And

10:52

I keep telling everybody, you can

10:54

stretch around in a box as much as you

10:56

want. There's not

10:59

enough litter in there and you know it's still

11:01

going to stink. It will

11:03

always stay.

11:06

And, you know, I'm sorry,

11:09

but up until this

11:12

occurs, you

11:14

know, and,

11:16

you know, I don't know

11:19

if you know Gavin Fish. He's

11:21

also a podcaster like you.

11:25

Okay. We get Gavin

11:27

Fish received a letter

11:30

from an individual who said

11:33

that he was an attorney representing. Okay.

11:36

He represented. Schwartzman

11:40

and the Goldberg. All

11:43

right. And

11:45

it was a cease and desist letter to gather.

11:50

And he said, you know, he said that

11:53

he says in his letter that

11:56

Sam called

11:58

his called

12:00

Kanyan Schwartzman, who

12:03

is Jimmy Schwartzman's son. Okay.

12:11

Kanyan put Jimmy on the phone and

12:14

they were both talking to

12:16

Sam prior

12:20

to Sam's 911 call, okay? What

12:24

did they advise Sam to do? Yeah,

12:28

what? What were they advising Sam? That

12:33

is the question. Yeah, what is going on?

12:36

What are they advising Sam? And why would he be

12:38

calling? If you answer, they will take

12:40

my call.

12:42

They won't sit down with me.

12:44

So what's their cease and desist

12:47

about? Just talking about the case in general?

12:51

Oh yeah, yeah. And

12:54

the fact that Kevin

12:56

says, okay,

12:58

the attorney general's office,

13:03

Josh Shapiro went

13:06

to school with Jimmy Schwartzman's

13:08

daughter. And

13:11

they're both on the same

13:15

fundraising committees for

13:18

the private academy that they were

13:20

in, okay? And

13:26

their children on the same athletic teams.

13:30

So that's what Josh Shapiro

13:32

said, who, who,

13:35

we may have a conflict here, although

13:38

we don't have a conflict, we may, you

13:40

know, rather than make it appear like a conflict,

13:43

we would rather accuse ourselves if they said

13:45

the case back to Philadelphia.

13:47

Wow. Okay. Now,

13:50

according to law, now that it has to go to a neighboring,

13:53

you know, so

13:59

they say, it to Chester County. They

14:01

said to chase the case to Chester County.

14:04

So now it's with the Chester County District

14:06

Attorney's Office.

14:09

And that's where it sits right now?

14:11

That's where it sits. It's been sitting there probably

14:13

at least seven months.

14:19

Is there a reason why they haven't done anything

14:21

yet? Or is

14:24

it just a convenient? I don't know what the hell is going on. I

14:27

call the Chief County

14:30

Detective David Sessa.

14:33

And David tells me, yep, Tom,

14:35

we just got everything together and we're

14:38

taking a look at it. And

14:43

it's it. We'll be talking to you. Okay,

14:46

David. I'm here.

14:49

They still haven't talked.

14:52

How bizarre. And what's amusing

14:54

to me is also the attempt to try and quiet people from just discussing

14:58

this. That seems very... You

15:02

know, in Philadelphia, okay, the

15:05

judge in Philadelphia, okay,

15:08

we filed a case

15:10

because Joe

15:13

Perjaza, our attorney, God bless him, he

15:16

and Will Trask, they are very aggressive

15:20

attorneys. And

15:22

in this case, they outdid themselves simply

15:24

because, I mean, they just

15:26

really outdid themselves. But

15:29

anyway, Joseph Perjaza and Will Trask,

15:32

they filed a

15:43

saying that, you know,

15:45

the medical

15:47

examiner's office was capricious and

15:50

their decision to say suicide. Arbitrary

15:53

capricious, okay. So

15:56

the judge in Philadelphia says, okay,

16:00

This thing is going to

16:02

trial. Philadelphia

16:06

says no. The city of Philadelphia

16:08

argues otherwise. They say, no, we aren't. The

16:11

judge says, yes, you are. We're going

16:13

to trial this date.

16:15

Okay, they appealed. And

16:18

judge says, nope, your appeal is bad.

16:22

City, we're going to trial.

16:25

City appeals it. Now we're in Commonwealth

16:28

court. Commonwealth

16:30

court, Pennsylvania Commonwealth court heard

16:33

this case back in November. Okay.

16:37

We still don't have a decision from Commonwealth court

16:40

on what it is. Three judges

16:43

from Commonwealth court, Pennsylvania

16:45

heard.

16:47

The judge in Philadelphia did

16:49

a 16 page

16:51

opinion and sent it to

16:53

Commonwealth court on why he says,

16:57

he denied the city's

16:59

appeals.

17:03

So we'll see that case is still pending.

17:06

And we also have a civil case and

17:09

we've named

17:14

Dr. Osborne, Dr. Gallino

17:16

and Dr. Lindsey Emery. I

17:24

knew a forensic pathologist who

17:27

during her deposition said

17:29

that the one wound specimen that she

17:31

examined was

17:34

post-mortem. How

17:37

the hell do you stand itself in the back of the

17:39

neck after your death?

17:41

Is that going to be, you think

17:43

the direction that going

17:45

after this civilly initially that may open

17:47

up criminal charges at some point by

17:50

being able to get information through discovery

17:52

on a civil case and then enough comes out and

17:54

goes, well, look at this.

17:58

Yeah, I think so. Because they

18:01

have to, once

18:03

we go on these similar

18:05

cases,

18:09

I think possibly in August we

18:11

are going to go out and say,

18:14

okay, here's

18:16

the subpoenas, we want a copy of everything, copy

18:19

all records, all of it,

18:22

all of it, everything that

18:24

you have we want. So, we'll

18:27

take a look at what they have.

18:29

But

18:32

Tony, I have never,

18:34

never ever,

18:36

okay, and I'm looking at

18:39

this, the father says to

18:42

me, he says, well, I

18:45

don't think you've ever taken a look at a case like this,

18:47

and as, you know,

18:49

in the past years I would say,

18:52

well, I don't think so, I

18:54

don't think so. But you know, honestly,

18:56

today

18:58

I can honestly say I have

19:00

never, ever had a case

19:03

like this, ever. So

19:06

bizarre. And, and just so. I

19:09

mean, it really, really,

19:12

really reeks.

19:14

It does. And it's in coming from such obvious

19:16

places. And that's, that's the scary part.

19:19

It's politics, the politics,

19:21

the money. You

19:23

know, it's just unbelievable, unbelievable.

19:26

Unbelievable.

19:29

Well, it's certainly, I mean, it's heartbreaking

19:31

for those parents who wanted to try and find

19:33

some sort of resolution and

19:36

I mean, closure, if you can even have closure when

19:38

you lose your daughter, but just something

19:40

and the denial of that to them is just

19:43

heartbreaking.

19:44

We're gonna, go ahead. I

19:48

just don't, you know, I look

19:50

at things and people, you know, people,

19:53

you know, we just had a

19:56

state police luncheon for the

19:58

retirees. They're over. Oh,

20:01

they were over a hundred there. Yeah They're

20:05

all looking at me going

20:06

because of all this thing all this, you know, all

20:08

of it that was in paper and all this other

20:10

stuff And I said,

20:13

you know What the hell is going

20:15

on? I want you to protect me for kitchen. I

20:18

said Guys, I

20:21

know I'm sorry guys. I just

20:23

don't know. I really don't know And

20:26

you're talking to an individual. Okay?

20:29

That it you know number one he advised

20:31

the last appointment attorney general of his rights Okay,

20:35

and the next day when I was doing the same thing that governor

20:38

who lost his memory Okay

20:40

that day. Yeah You

20:44

know in politicians after

20:46

politicians after politicians You

20:49

know and then you take a look at you take

20:51

a look at this case and I Told

20:55

Sandy and Josh right at the beginning. I

20:57

said I said you folks are gonna

21:00

have to be extremely extremely patient

21:03

and If you don't want

21:05

to fight Then

21:08

I think we should you know, I should walk away. Yeah,

21:11

and they said no they're in it for the long

21:13

run and

21:16

God bless them both

21:18

And I told them I and they said they asked

21:20

me they said why I said because you don't

21:23

understand about filling politics

21:25

and they said what I

21:27

Said filling politics.

21:30

I don't care what anybody says, you know, I work only

21:32

politics I had the organized crime at

21:34

the state police. I was Three

21:37

years. Yeah, okay

21:41

Billy politics Are

21:43

so corrupt And I

21:46

don't care what anybody said they are

21:48

so cool. I mean it Philly

21:50

is just unbelievable It's

21:52

just unbelievable you

21:55

know and I you know and

21:57

I worked with Philly Philly major

21:59

Christ to PD major crimes

22:01

for eight years

22:03

eight years we work Pennsylvania

22:06

State Police in Philadelphia major crime together

22:09

You know I want to look after

22:11

people like Rizzo son,

22:13

you know, mayor Rizzo son arrested

22:20

You know and and uh You

22:23

know, you take a look at this and you wonder what what

22:26

what's going on here? Why? Yeah. Yeah.

22:28

Why why? Tell

22:30

me why the city of philadelphia

22:33

is Expending all

22:35

of these resources on this.

22:37

Yeah, why can't

22:39

they just cannot say?

22:42

Undetermined see you later.

22:44

Yeah, you guys go which order yeah

22:47

investigate your Yeah,

22:51

what are they hiding why are they hiding it

22:53

I mean does it have anything to do with Sam who

22:55

knows I mean Exactly

22:58

just to find out just to be able to go down

23:00

that road and you hit the roadblock

23:02

every time

23:04

You know Why this

23:06

is the hidden killers podcast with tony

23:09

bruce? There's more to come

23:11

in my conversation with thomas

23:13

brennan private investigator

23:16

into

23:17

the murder of ellen greenberg

23:20

New segments playing monday through friday

23:22

this week on the podcast. Be sure to press

23:25

subscribe

23:26

So you don't miss any of

23:28

this very intriguing story Stay

23:31

with us

23:40

The

23:41

hit series claim to fame is back

23:43

on abc From executive producers

23:46

of love is blind and hosted by superstar

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do whatever it takes to keep their famous

23:55

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