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Hello,

0:23

everyone, and welcome back.

0:25

So happy to have you with me here today to discuss

0:28

yet another case. And if you're new,

0:30

then welcome. So before we jump

0:32

into today's case, and there is a

0:35

lot to go over, it is very

0:38

fascinating, it's very frustrating. I

0:40

think you guys will have

0:42

many thoughts and your theories will kind

0:44

of be all over the place on this one. And

0:47

let's jump into the case. So today we're gonna be talking

0:49

about Denise Flum's case, which

0:52

has gone without justice now almost 40

0:55

years later.

0:57

And there are many possible

1:00

people who could have been involved

1:02

in her disappearance

1:04

and possibly her murder. And

1:06

if you're not already familiar with the disappearance

1:09

and presumed death

1:10

of Denise Flum, then this

1:13

case is going to absolutely shock you. It's

1:15

one that I just recently learned about. And

1:17

ever since I found out about it, I knew

1:20

I had to cover it. And in my opinion,

1:22

this is one of those cases that could

1:24

have absolutely

1:26

been solved. And due to poor

1:28

police work, it's still unsolved

1:31

to this day. And Denise's story starts

1:33

on January 14th, 1958

1:35

in Connersville, Indiana,

1:38

where she was born to her parents, Judy

1:40

and David, who were beyond excited

1:42

to give birth to a healthy baby girl because

1:44

they had already experienced three failed

1:47

pregnancies before Denise was born. So

1:50

she was their miracle child. Not

1:52

long after Denise was born, she ended up getting

1:54

a baby sister named Jenny, who she

1:56

loved dearly. And living in Connersville,

1:58

Indiana was.

1:59

about as exciting as it sounds. The

2:02

city was first established in 1813 and its economy was supported

2:06

by local manufacturing and retail.

2:08

It wasn't anywhere particularly

2:10

exciting to grow up, but it was a modest, hardworking

2:13

city that

2:14

was for the most part considered to be

2:16

safe,

2:17

located 66 miles southeast

2:19

of Indianapolis. And from what I can tell, Denise

2:22

seemed to have a good childhood. And while

2:24

looking into her story, I couldn't find

2:26

anyone who had anything bad to say about

2:28

Denise. Everything that was said about her,

2:31

at least that was available to me,

2:33

was about how amazing she

2:35

was and what a good person she was. She

2:38

was known as an incredible friend, sister,

2:40

daughter, and a really good student.

2:43

By March of 1986, she was just weeks away

2:45

from graduating high school and going to attend

2:47

Miami University of Ohio.

2:50

Her parents say that Denise was a stranger

2:52

to no one and from the time that she was very

2:54

young, she exhibited an outgoing personality.

2:57

Her friends say that she was very charismatic

2:59

and chatty and loved

3:01

some good high school drama, loved

3:04

the tea. She was also very kind. She

3:06

was known to be funny and have a good sense of humor.

3:09

She loved animals and she was a very

3:11

talented athlete. In fact, she played for

3:14

sports and was a natural born leader. As

3:16

you can imagine, her parents, Judy and David, were

3:18

very proud of her and believed that her future

3:21

was bright. And like I said, March

3:23

of 1986 was a very exciting

3:26

time in her life. Prom was just around

3:28

the corner and high school graduation

3:30

was shortly after that. But sadly, Denise

3:33

was not able to experience either

3:35

of those things. On Thursday, March

3:38

27th, 1986, Denise made plans with her

3:41

friend Kim to go to a bonfire

3:43

party. It was the week of spring break and

3:45

a lot of her friends were going out of town,

3:47

going on trips, but Denise had a lot

3:49

to do. So she wanted to stay back, mainly

3:52

because she had to go to track practice. And that

3:54

was super important to her. Track was

3:56

by far her favorite and best sport.

3:58

Bonfire parties were really popular

4:01

back in the 80s, especially in

4:03

Connersville. And it was a great way to get

4:05

out and see your friends. And so that's what

4:07

Denise was doing that Thursday night. But before

4:10

going to the bonfire party, she and

4:12

Kim made a stop at the Glenwood Inn

4:14

where they knew that they could purchase beer. And

4:16

then after that, they joined about 100 or so other

4:19

people at this party.

4:21

And those who were there that night say that there

4:23

was nothing, you know, out of the ordinary

4:25

about the party. Denise seemed to be having a good time

4:28

and nothing really stood out about her behavior

4:30

or how anyone else was acting. Some

4:33

people say they saw Denise making out with

4:35

a guy named John that night that is not confirmed,

4:38

but

4:38

that's the only really somewhat

4:41

notable thing from the bonfire

4:43

party. But

4:44

one thing to note, and I will definitely be getting

4:46

more into this later, is Denise

4:48

was recently single. Denise had

4:51

been dating this boy named Sean McClung

4:53

and she met him a while back while on the school

4:55

bus. At first, Denise really

4:57

liked Sean and she would actually take

4:59

a longer route on the bus so that she could

5:01

have like 45 minutes of time with

5:04

him on the bus. But the two of them were

5:07

quite different from what I gathered.

5:09

And

5:10

at first, things were going okay, but

5:12

eventually the relationship took

5:15

a turn. And Sean and Denise had broken

5:17

up in early March. So if she

5:19

did

5:20

kiss this guy John at the bonfire party

5:22

that night, it was probably the

5:24

first time that she had kissed someone since

5:27

she and Sean broke up. But there

5:29

is one really important detail about

5:31

the bonfire party that night and that is that she

5:34

lost her purse while she was at the party.

5:36

And

5:37

it was dark, so she decided to come

5:39

back the following day and

5:41

look for it and that's exactly what she did. On

5:43

the morning of March 28th, Denise

5:46

spoke with her mom and she happened to mention

5:48

that she lost her purse at the bonfire and was

5:50

going back out there to look for it. Now

5:52

sources say that she had asked

5:55

a couple of friends if they wanted to join her

5:57

to go out and look for the purse, but everyone

5:59

was like,

5:59

was busy so she ended up going alone.

6:02

Around 1230pm, Denise took her 1981 cream-colored Buick

6:07

and drove the 10 or so minute drive back

6:09

to where the bonfire was held. Or at least

6:12

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6:14

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But after two hours passed, Denise

7:38

wasn't back home yet. And this

7:40

is when her mother Judy started to become

7:42

concerned. This little excursion to

7:44

find her purse should have taken her 30

7:46

minutes max, maybe 45.

7:49

So finally around 8 30 PM, Judy

7:51

and David just couldn't take it anymore. They

7:53

were extremely worried and they ended up calling

7:56

the police. And of course, this was

7:58

the eighties, not that it has gone away. gotten

8:00

that much better these days, I mean, depending

8:02

on where you are in the situation. But

8:05

of course, the police did not

8:07

take her being missing very seriously.

8:10

They got the response that thousands of other

8:12

parents have gotten over the years when their children have

8:14

gone missing. And that was,

8:16

she's a teenager,

8:18

she's probably just being a

8:20

teenager, and she'll probably be back

8:22

soon. And who knows? Maybe

8:25

if they had actually taken them seriously

8:27

and taken action right

8:29

away, it's possible that they would have

8:32

found Denise, maybe alive.

8:34

And if not, maybe her killers

8:37

would have actually been brought to justice.

8:39

Her parents were very frustrated with

8:41

the police's lack of concern and action,

8:44

so they immediately tried

8:46

to take things into their own hands and started calling other

8:48

friends and family to see if they could form

8:50

a search party. Her father

8:52

David went out right away looking

8:54

for her in their family car, and Judy

8:56

stayed back at the house just in case she showed

8:58

up or called. But unfortunately, by the

9:01

following morning, Denise still wasn't

9:03

home.

9:04

But they did find a clue. A

9:07

day after she went missing, a farmer called

9:09

in and reported that he had found

9:12

a vehicle that was abandoned, and

9:14

it turns out that that vehicle belonged

9:16

to Denise. Carbuick was found

9:18

abandoned on Tower Road, less than three

9:21

miles from where the bonfire was held two

9:23

nights before. There were no signs of foul

9:25

play, and there were also no signs

9:28

of Denise. 18-year-old

9:30

Denise Flum was a star student

9:33

planning to study microbiology

9:34

in college. She

9:36

played four sports, her photo

9:39

appearing in the local paper from high

9:41

school competitions, and

9:43

then March 28, 1986.

9:46

She was suddenly gone.

9:50

The previous night she had been at a bonfire

9:52

and forgotten her purse. The last time

9:54

her family saw her, she said she

9:57

was going to look for it. The next

9:59

day, a farm

9:59

reported her car along this

10:02

lane. Three miles from the party

10:04

side, the car locked

10:07

and no some.

10:10

And they parked it back there.

10:12

Next to an old bar, Denise's father,

10:15

David still visiting the site after three

10:17

decades. So as they come down

10:19

this road.

10:21

They knew exactly where

10:24

they were going. So

10:26

once more people in the community heard

10:29

that Denise was missing,

10:30

many people got involved with the search efforts.

10:32

And as the hours were going by without

10:34

her returning and the car had been found

10:37

and more and more people were putting pressure on the police,

10:39

they started taking her disappearance more seriously

10:42

as well. The Saturday and Sunday

10:44

following the reappearance of her car was

10:46

filled with search efforts. And according

10:48

to a newspaper article from the Connorsville News

10:50

Examiner published on Monday, March 31st, 1996, there

10:54

were a variety of teams from a variety of departments

10:57

taking part

10:57

in the search for Denise. County,

10:59

city and state officials searched

11:01

by foot and plane. Yet there

11:03

still wasn't so much as a footprint on

11:05

the ground to indicate what happened to her. One detective

11:08

said it was almost as if she got in her car, parked

11:11

and then was lifted out of the area in a helicopter.

11:14

Now there was one possible sighting

11:17

of Denise that's important to mention. Around 2

11:19

p.m. on the Friday that she went missing,

11:22

a friend of hers said that she saw someone matching

11:24

Denise's description at a local store called

11:27

The Fashion Bug. However, the description

11:29

of her clothing didn't match the description

11:32

that her mom gave of what she was

11:34

wearing the day that she went to go look

11:36

for her purse. So based on what I know,

11:38

it's definitely unconfirmed

11:40

if this sighting was Denise, but I thought it was important

11:43

to mention. As far as the rest of the

11:45

investigation goes, there is definitely

11:47

some

11:47

conflicting information as

11:49

to how helpful the police actually

11:52

were. Based on newspaper articles from 1986,

11:55

it appears as though the local and state police

11:57

were involved with the physical search efforts.

12:00

But when it came to the actual internal investigation,

12:03

it was in the hands of the county and that's

12:05

where the ball was really dropped. So

12:07

a man named Ted McQuinley was the primary

12:09

investigator when Denise first went missing.

12:12

And when I tell you his investigative

12:15

methods, your jaw is going

12:17

to drop. This man literally never

12:19

took notes when conducting his investigation.

12:22

He said he kept all the details in

12:25

his trusty

12:26

old brain. And that's his words.

12:29

And here we are almost 40 years

12:31

later and still without

12:34

any answers. So his

12:36

trusty old brain ain't so trusty

12:38

anymore. He literally kept no

12:40

record of who he did and

12:43

didn't talk to during his investigation.

12:46

This was mind blowing to me. And

12:48

so that means obviously he didn't take any

12:50

notes when he did conduct interviews.

12:53

He kept it all in the old noggin. And I'm not

12:55

even sure interviews is the right

12:57

word to use here. I mean, he pretty much went

12:59

had short conversations with people,

13:02

took what they said at face value. And

13:04

when they said they didn't have any involvement, he

13:07

just moved on. Oh, and to add to it,

13:09

this dude relied heavily on

13:12

psychics during his investigation. So

13:15

that's great. And he never even

13:17

searched Denise's bedroom or

13:20

get phone records. There's nothing to suggest that

13:22

this man even tried to get phone records.

13:25

Obviously phone records in 1986 are

13:27

going to be way less descriptive and give us a lot

13:30

less information than they would today. But

13:32

still

13:33

would have been helpful if Denise really had

13:35

called her friends and asked if they wanted to go look

13:37

for the purse with her. Maybe one of these people

13:39

learned something from Denise that could be helpful.

13:42

Like maybe she had planned to meet up with someone after

13:44

looking for her purse. And here's the

13:46

thing. Detective McQuinley

13:49

was actually David's cousin.

13:51

So Denise's father's cousin.

13:54

So you'd think that'd be a conflict

13:56

of interest, right? At the time, they figured

13:58

it was great.

13:59

have someone that they trusted, someone who cared

14:02

about Denise in on the investigation.

14:04

But looking back now, they're frustrated.

14:06

They just figured he was doing everything

14:09

in his power to locate Denise. But the

14:11

reality is he should have contacted

14:13

additional resources for help. I

14:15

could continue sitting here talking about all

14:17

the things that didn't happen but should have,

14:20

but that doesn't help our

14:22

situation now. So let's talk about

14:24

what did. Now, if you consume a lot of

14:26

true crime, you probably are already

14:29

thinking about the ex-boyfriend.

14:32

After all, they had broken up recently.

14:34

And even though Sean was spoken to, I

14:36

can confidently say that he wasn't properly

14:38

looked into. And like I kind of alluded to

14:40

before, things in their relationship were

14:43

not good towards the end. At

14:45

the end of the day, Denise deserved way

14:47

better than Sean. And he knew

14:49

it, and she definitely knew it. And so I'm glad

14:51

that she ended the relationship with him. And

14:54

that's important to note that she was the one

14:56

that ended the relationship with him. Now,

14:58

big red flag here, Sean actually

15:01

left the state of Indiana after Denise

15:03

went missing and moved to Arizona.

15:06

And this was around the same time that it started to become

15:08

clear that he lied about his alibi for

15:10

the day that she went missing. And yes,

15:12

you heard that right. He lied about

15:15

his alibi. He told detectives that he was

15:17

fishing that morning and afternoon, but none

15:19

of the people that he named could corroborate

15:21

this. Denise's parents have found out a

15:24

lot about the investigation somewhat

15:26

recently. And one of the things

15:28

they found out is that

15:30

Sean hadn't been fully vetted. This

15:32

was pretty shocking to him. They thought he was

15:35

pretty much cleared. Detective McQuinley

15:37

has been interviewed in the last few years

15:40

about his investigation. And when

15:42

they asked him about his conversation with Sean, all

15:44

he could say was that he thought he spoke

15:46

to him one time and was under the impression

15:49

that they had an amicable breakup.

15:52

But if it was such an amicable breakup, you

15:54

would think that Sean would have

15:56

been involved in the search efforts for Denise.

15:58

I mean, he was...

15:59

still care about her to some degree if they

16:02

broke up under good terms, right?

16:04

Wrong. He was nowhere to be

16:06

found during the entire search effort.

16:09

And we know that their breakup wasn't

16:11

necessarily a good one because one

16:13

of Denise's friends came forward with

16:15

letters that Denise had written. It's unclear

16:18

if these letters were shared with police right

16:20

away, and I hope they were, but

16:22

I doubt it because the

16:24

police didn't consider Sean a suspect.

16:27

And that makes me think that they didn't see those letters

16:29

until much later, but I'm going to share

16:31

what we do know about them. So Denise and

16:34

a close friend of hers became pen

16:36

pals after this friend had

16:38

moved away. This is when writing letters

16:40

back and forth with friends was super common

16:42

and having a pen pal was really cool.

16:45

And Denise and this friend would write each other

16:47

letters that, you know, talked about their lives,

16:50

what was going on, what was new, all

16:52

the typical pen pal stuff. But on March 3,

16:54

23 days before Denise went missing, a

16:58

pretty strange letter arrived at her friend's

17:00

house and it said that she and Sean had broken

17:02

up, but

17:03

also said, I feel so guilty

17:05

I could kill myself

17:07

and I'm scared to go to school tomorrow.

17:09

And I want to be very clear here that even

17:12

though Denise said in that letter that she could

17:14

harm herself, there's no indication

17:16

that she ever did her disappearance and

17:18

presumed death

17:19

was not self-inflicted.

17:21

But just from the tone of this letter, you can tell

17:23

that Denise felt

17:25

very eerie and uncomfortable

17:28

about her breakup with Sean. Friends in

17:30

her hometown say that Sean was super

17:32

possessive over her. They said that their

17:35

relationship wasn't as great as most people

17:37

thought it was. And of course, if any smart

17:40

right-minded detective heard this, they would

17:42

look deeper into him. But once Sean moved

17:44

to Arizona, that was pretty much it.

17:46

And he was

17:47

sort of ignored after that up

17:50

until about a few years ago. But

17:52

before I start talking about what Sean

17:54

did a few years ago, I want to introduce

17:57

two more people who have been considered

17:59

suspects over the years.

17:59

the years. First, a kid named

18:02

Benny Johnson, who was a few years older

18:04

than Denise, and he really drew

18:06

attention to himself in the years following her disappearance.

18:09

On more than one occasion, Sean

18:12

was heard making drunken bar

18:14

confessions that he had killed

18:16

Denise

18:17

and hid her body. And he wasn't

18:20

the only one to do this either. His

18:22

cousin, Randy Cates, was

18:24

known to do the same thing. And

18:26

Randy once told someone that he and Benny picked

18:29

up Denise and went to some building to party

18:31

and do drugs. He said that Denise

18:33

was super uncomfortable with the fact that they were doing

18:36

drugs, and she threatened to tell her

18:38

dad. And in response to this,

18:40

Randy said that

18:42

they freaked out,

18:43

they killed her, and then they fed her

18:45

to the hogs, which is

18:47

super disturbing. And if

18:50

you ask me, this

18:51

is wildly specific, but

18:53

none of these claims have actually been seriously

18:56

looked into. Now, people do

18:58

confess to crimes that they didn't commit all

19:01

the time. It's very weird. I'll never understand

19:03

it. People have

19:04

many different motives for doing things like that.

19:07

But

19:07

there is something about this that felt

19:10

eerily honest.

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20:28

was actually property that was owned

20:30

by Benny Johnson's family. Not

20:32

to mention his family was very

20:34

wealthy and a very prominent

20:37

family in town. So if something happened on

20:39

their property, many believe that they could

20:41

have paid someone to make this go away. And

20:44

here's the thing. Two days after

20:46

Denise went missing, Benny's girlfriend

20:48

at the time said that he took her out to a

20:50

wooded area where his family owned a cabin

20:53

on their property and said that

20:56

they were going to clean up this cabin

20:58

for a party that night.

21:00

First of all, why are you throwing a party

21:02

in an area where a girl has just

21:05

gone missing two days prior? But second

21:07

of all, and this is very creepy,

21:10

Benny's girlfriend said that when they got

21:12

to the cabin, she noticed an excessive

21:14

amount of blood

21:16

on the floor and she was told that

21:18

the blood was from a girl losing

21:20

her virginity there. But she

21:22

said that

21:23

there was no way that this amount

21:25

of blood

21:26

could be due to something

21:28

like that. But before she could do anything about

21:30

it or let anyone know, someone

21:32

mopped it all up. And police did

21:34

end up getting a search warrant for the cabin, but it wasn't

21:37

until five years later.

21:39

So if there was any evidence there, we

21:41

will never know. And the suspicion

21:43

around Benny definitely

21:45

doesn't stop there. He also took

21:47

his girlfriend to the Mary Gray Bird

21:49

Sanctuary. And this was not long after

21:52

Denise went missing and he told her that he wanted

21:54

to show her something. The

21:56

girlfriend said that she immediately had a bad feeling

21:58

about to go with

22:00

him. She said in her mind she was worried

22:03

that Benny was going to take her to where

22:05

Denise's body was. There was

22:07

a pond there that people speculated

22:10

could be where Denise's

22:12

body was. However, years

22:14

and years later they searched the pond and

22:17

nothing was found. But before I wrap

22:19

things up on Benny Johnson, because there

22:22

are other people we got to get to here, there

22:24

is one more big thing. Less than a month

22:27

after Denise went missing, Benny supposedly

22:29

called Judy and David Flum,

22:31

Denise's parents, and asked if he could

22:33

sit down and speak with them. They

22:36

agreed and they went to his house and

22:38

when they sat down with him the first thing out

22:40

of his mouth was, I didn't kill your

22:42

daughter. Which is pretty strange if you

22:45

ask me, especially considering that

22:47

at this point they didn't suspect

22:49

that Benny had anything to do with it. This is

22:51

a pretty weird thing

22:54

to just bring up

22:55

and something that you would say if you were

22:58

worried that people suspected you of doing

23:00

something right. And of course, and this

23:02

is frustrating, police never looked

23:05

into Benny fully. They never did

23:07

their due diligence to rule him out

23:09

and maybe if they did we would

23:11

know more. He did take a polygraph

23:13

test that was paid for by his well-known

23:16

wealthy family and even with pretty

23:18

questionable results the police just

23:21

shrugged him off. So the next thing I want

23:23

to mention is a story told by the

23:25

children of Vivian May. She has

23:27

since passed away but her children say

23:29

that on the day that Denise went missing

23:32

their mother heard several blood-curdling

23:35

screams that truly scared her to

23:38

her core

23:39

and

23:40

not only that these screams came from the direction

23:42

of Benny

23:43

Johnson's family farm.

23:45

Me and many others believe that

23:47

the screams very possibly could

23:50

have been from Denise but we

23:52

can't say with a hundred percent certainty it was

23:54

never looked into more than that and unfortunately

23:57

over time Denise's case

23:59

went

23:59

rumors continued to circle

24:02

town but no official efforts

24:04

were made. In August of 1988 a

24:06

tip was made by a woman claiming to be Denise

24:08

but after David and Judy made the emotional

24:11

journey to Virginia to see this woman it

24:13

was revealed that the entire thing was

24:15

a hoax. Things were quiet after that

24:17

but in 2007 luckily a new

24:20

detective got involved in the case. His

24:22

name is Scott Jarvis he's with the Indiana

24:25

State Police and he took interest

24:27

in Denise's story and tried to piece together

24:29

this mystery after all these years.

24:31

He theorized that Denise may have come

24:34

across a drug deal or seen something

24:36

that she wasn't supposed to see and

24:38

that ultimately led to her death. He said

24:40

that he conducted interviews with inmates

24:43

who claimed to have known what happened

24:46

to Denise but none of these efforts resulted

24:48

in new information. As of 2014 Denise's DNA from

24:52

an old baby tooth was submitted to a national

24:54

database in the event that someone comes across

24:56

her remains but to this day

24:58

there have been no

24:59

matches. Finally

25:01

in 2018

25:02

efforts picked up again and

25:04

everyone was hopeful that progress was

25:06

going to be made this time. On May 3rd 2018 the Justice

25:09

for Denise Flum Facebook

25:11

page was made which I will link below if you would like to

25:14

follow it it's a great resource for information

25:16

and a way that her parents continue to share

25:18

their

25:18

daughter's story. And by August

25:20

of that year the case was picked up by detective

25:23

Stacey Reese who is

25:25

really awesome and this was definitely

25:27

a hopeful turn for the family.

25:30

Since finding this case Stacey has truly

25:32

made it her life's mission to solve

25:35

the disappearance and presumed death of Denise

25:37

Flum and her efforts have been truly

25:39

amazing and what drives her so much

25:41

is she has a personal connection

25:44

to the case. Her mom was actually Denise's

25:46

babysitter growing up and for years

25:48

and years her disappearance and the lack

25:50

of justice has really bothered her so

25:53

now as a detective she began

25:55

looking into the case and decided to go to each of the suspects

25:57

herself and see if she could learn anything.

25:59

new information. And boy, did

26:02

she learn a lot. So let's start with Benny.

26:04

Since the 1980s, Benny has had his

26:07

fair share of run-ins with

26:09

the law. He has been arrested several times for

26:11

attempted battery of a police officer and

26:13

also resisting arrest. And from

26:15

what I can tell, he remained living in Connersville

26:18

and ended up hiring a lawyer after police

26:21

recently started looking into him again in connection

26:23

to what happened to Denise. His lawyer

26:25

stated that he would make an official statement,

26:28

but unless police had evidence

26:29

against him, he would not be sitting down

26:32

to answer any questions. There wasn't

26:34

much information about Randy Cates,

26:37

but

26:37

I imagine it's a similar situation.

26:39

Until police can prove that he was involved,

26:41

he will not be cooperating

26:42

any further. There's a vice documentary

26:45

on this case, and it's really

26:47

interesting. I'm going to link it below for you guys. It's

26:50

a three-parter, but I think it's worth watching

26:52

the entire thing. They go and

26:54

interview a bunch of people, and

26:56

Stacy's really involved in it.

26:58

It's very well done and fascinating.

27:00

And they go and try to interview Benny, try

27:03

to interview Randy, and they

27:05

talk to them somewhat. And it is sketchy.

27:08

They are so, so creepy, in my

27:10

opinion. They don't get any new information out

27:12

of them, but just

27:14

hearing their voices, I think, will tell

27:16

you a lot.

27:17

So there is another theory that we haven't

27:19

even gone into, another possible suspect,

27:21

and that is a serial killer. Well,

27:24

suspected serial killer, Larry

27:26

Hall, who is currently serving a life sentence

27:28

for kidnapping, and he's believed to be connected

27:31

to many,

27:31

many murders. Unfortunately,

27:34

police have never been able to prove his

27:36

connection to any of these murders, hence why

27:39

he's in prison just for kidnapping. However,

27:41

Larry did end up writing a list

27:44

with names of a bunch of people that he

27:46

claims to have killed, and Denise

27:48

is one of the names on that list. However,

27:51

it's hard to believe. I mean, there have

27:53

been many instances where serial

27:55

killers have claimed that they've killed

27:57

people that they actually haven't killed, and it's been proven that

27:59

they have been killed. that they didn't actually do

28:01

it. I

28:02

don't know why these people do it. Maybe they feel like

28:04

it

28:05

makes them a more iconic

28:08

serial killer in their sick mind. And

28:10

the problem with Larry is that he's known

28:12

for making false confessions. And

28:14

considering what I've already shared about the case and the other

28:17

possible suspects, I have a hard time believing

28:19

that Larry

28:20

actually was involved.

28:22

Of course it's possible. I just personally

28:24

don't lean that way. And I think you'll agree with

28:26

me especially after I shared

28:29

this next part. So let's go back to

28:31

Denise's ex-boyfriend, Shawn McClung.

28:34

Just like Benny, Shawn went on to have a life

28:36

riddled with arrest. While in Arizona,

28:38

he was arrested on multiple occasions for

28:41

crimes such as intimidating, battery,

28:43

assault, and domestic violence. And

28:46

all of that really doesn't scream good guy,

28:48

if you ask me. So later on in

28:50

his life, he ends up moving back to Connersville.

28:53

And when he does, he ends up taking

28:55

a polygraph test. And polygraphs,

28:58

ugh, they're so frustrating.

29:00

They can be accurate.

29:03

They also can be

29:04

very unreliable. And even though his

29:07

results showed that he was lying on multiple occasions,

29:09

these tests are not admissible in court. They

29:12

can't be used to make an arrest. And

29:14

that's just because they're not very accurate. So

29:16

at that point police pretty much couldn't do anything else

29:18

but wait. So Detective Reese ended

29:21

up getting in contact with Shawn in 2019.

29:24

And they had a conversation and he told her

29:27

that he and Denise had been broken up for quite

29:29

some time before he went missing, but

29:31

the two of them stayed friends. Personally,

29:33

I'm not super inclined to believe him,

29:36

but

29:36

that's what he said. Shawn also said that

29:38

he has a gut feeling that something

29:41

happened at the bonfire that night that

29:44

caused Denise to go missing the

29:46

next day. And this I

29:48

can somewhat agree with. It's

29:51

quite possible that she saw something or

29:53

did something or had some type of altercation

29:55

with someone that led to

29:57

whatever happened to her. After that conversation,

30:00

in 2019 with Detective Reese,

30:02

Sean kind of shut down and

30:04

wouldn't talk about it anymore.

30:06

That is until 2020. So

30:08

before I get into arguably the

30:10

most insane part of this case,

30:13

there was a search effort in 2018

30:15

that I

30:16

want to quickly talk about. Remember earlier when

30:18

I mentioned the Mary Gray bird sanctuary

30:20

and how they searched the lake and nothing was

30:23

found? The one that Benny Johnson tried to

30:25

take his girlfriend to, to quote, show

30:27

her

30:27

something. I didn't really explain how

30:30

they searched the pond. So

30:32

in 2018, they got an anonymous tip that

30:35

Denise's body was in the pond.

30:37

Several agencies went out to the pond and brought canine

30:39

teams with them. And these dogs were equipped to

30:42

detect the smell of human remains. And it

30:44

turns out that two of them detected that smell

30:47

right by the water. But here's the thing. When

30:49

the teams went back to drain the pond and

30:51

excavate it, it started to literally

30:54

downpour. So they could not get

30:56

this pond to drain. So what they

30:58

decided to do, and I wanted to mention this because I

31:00

thought it was so interesting. They ended

31:02

up filling like 20 trucks

31:05

with dirt and mud, and then they dumped

31:08

it where the dogs indicated, and then

31:10

they went through all the mud by hand. The

31:12

hope was that they would find Denise. And

31:15

if they did, this video would

31:17

end here, but it doesn't. And

31:19

they didn't. They never found Denise's

31:21

body to this day, which

31:23

is just absolutely heartbreaking. I

31:25

can't imagine the pain that her parents

31:27

feel. Not being able to lay their

31:30

daughter to rest is a feeling that nobody should

31:32

experience. At this point, of course, they would

31:34

love justice and answers, but what

31:36

they want most is Denise's body so

31:38

that they can bury her

31:40

with her grandparents. And if this case

31:43

can be any more upsetting and frustrating,

31:46

let's get into where things leave

31:48

off today. In June of 2020, just

31:51

about three years ago now, Sean

31:53

McClung became incredibly

31:55

sick, not with COVID, but an extremely

31:58

life-threatening

31:58

condition.

31:59

And while he was in the hospital, Judy found out

32:02

and decided to write him a letter. Obviously,

32:04

this was kind of a last ditch effort considering

32:07

that

32:07

Sean could have died. And

32:09

I thought this was really smart on Judy's

32:12

part to write this letter. And she really

32:14

tried to appeal to his conscience.

32:16

She starts it off by talking about his

32:19

mom and how she was a lovely lady who

32:21

loved her boys

32:22

and

32:23

how he probably wants to go

32:26

to heaven and be with her. And then

32:28

she says, you know, you're probably going to have a hard time

32:30

getting into heaven if you

32:32

don't come clean about what you did.

32:35

Judy and David have really always believed that

32:37

Sean was involved, but just like the police, they

32:39

never had enough evidence to prove it.

32:42

So by writing this letter, Judy's kind of hoping

32:44

that she'll convince Sean to come clean

32:46

and that she'll get a deathbed confession.

32:49

But what she got is not what anyone

32:51

expected. Sean was arrested

32:53

shortly after his hospitalization on charges

32:56

completely unrelated to Denise's disappearance.

32:59

And after spending just a few days behind

33:01

bars, he says he

33:03

wants to talk to someone about what he knows. Now,

33:06

I don't know if it was being in jail

33:09

or if maybe the letters really did make

33:11

an impact

33:11

on him. But finally, after 34

33:14

years, a confession is made. I

33:16

like it. I really

33:17

would. I really would. Yeah. Yeah.

33:22

I don't

33:24

know what's expected of me. It's, you

33:26

know, all I do. I

33:29

don't. No gangs,

33:31

no guys. I'm

33:33

here now and no

33:35

gangs on my end either, man. We

33:38

just want to know what happened and we just want to find

33:40

her and take care of this. So

33:43

what happened that

33:45

morning? She

33:48

told me that

33:49

she had came to pick him up that day.

33:51

They had taken a ride. They ended up

33:54

at the Three Mile Bridge, which is a location

33:58

south of the Sheriff's Department here.

34:00

next to the river, the White Water River,

34:03

and that they've been talking about some

34:05

things.

34:11

Right?

34:34

We were sitting here talking and, uh... I

34:41

put my hands on her and

34:43

pushed her to the ground.

34:48

And obviously this was huge for their family

34:50

and everyone who knew Denise. This felt like

34:52

a groundbreaking moment

34:54

that they finally had hope for the first time

34:57

in years. On

34:59

July 9, 2020, Sean McClung was arrested

35:01

and charged with voluntary manslaughter, and

35:04

it seemed as if a massive weight

35:06

had been lifted off everyone's shoulders. Developing

35:09

news after searching for answers for 34 years.

35:14

Investigators now believe they've solved a cold

35:16

case in Connersville. Denise Flum

35:18

drove away from her Connersville home in 1986, never

35:20

came back. This

35:23

week, the Fayette County Sheriff's Department arrested Sean

35:25

McClung. He is now charged with voluntary

35:28

manslaughter. The sheriff says McClung

35:30

had been claiming that Flum was alive this whole

35:32

time, but now admits that

35:34

he killed her. The family says they hope this

35:36

will lead them to finding her remains

35:39

so that they can give Flum a proper memorial.

35:42

So Sean actually made a plea deal

35:44

that stated he would be granted immunity

35:47

on this charge, as well as

35:48

other charges he was facing if he was

35:50

able to take investigators to Denise's

35:52

body. Like I said earlier, all

35:55

the family wants at this point is to bring

35:57

Denise home, and if

35:58

they have to make a case, they will be able to get her back. a deal to

36:00

get that done, they were willing to do it. So he has

36:03

police take him out to where he says Denise's

36:05

body is. And they quickly

36:07

realize that this is a show.

36:10

He is confused

36:13

about exactly where it is because

36:15

the area has changed. He

36:17

changes the location.

36:19

And in the end, they realize

36:21

that he has no idea. And

36:24

the area that he took them to

36:26

was on the Johnson family

36:29

farm. But in the end,

36:30

he can't locate her body and police

36:33

are frustrated. Denise's family is frustrated.

36:36

And because he couldn't live up to his end of the deal

36:39

and show them where Denise's body was,

36:41

he remained in prison on those

36:43

charges. Denise's family was still

36:46

leaning in the direction of Sean though and felt

36:49

like

36:49

maybe he really did do it. Maybe this confession

36:52

is

36:52

genuine. Even without her body,

36:55

everyone was hoping that they could at least charge

36:57

him with her murder and that there would be some

37:00

relief through that. But in September of 2020, just

37:02

two months after making his confession,

37:04

Sean McClung ended up passing

37:06

away. And what makes this even more

37:09

devastating is the day before

37:11

Sean died, he

37:14

made the opposite of a deathbed confession.

37:16

He recanted his previous

37:18

confession. He literally said that he only

37:20

admitted to killing Denise because he thought it would keep

37:23

him out of jail. He said that

37:25

he actually somehow thought that his

37:28

kids were going to get $25,000 if he

37:30

did this. And sadly, any hope that people

37:33

had that Denise was finally going to get justice

37:35

this time died along with

37:37

Sean. New tonight,

37:40

a confession made in a cold case

37:42

murder is now being questioned. The

37:44

man who made it died two months

37:46

after being charged. And now his attorney

37:48

says the confession was false. And

37:51

our Lauren Kostik breaks down the new developments

37:54

and what's next for this investigation.

37:55

found

38:00

their guy. Sean mcclong was charged

38:02

with the killing of Denise Flum. The 18

38:04

year old went missing more than three decades

38:07

ago in Fayette County, her family

38:09

never losing hope. You don't

38:11

you don't give up. You just you

38:14

spend your life looking. But new details

38:17

surrounding his confession is leaving investigators

38:20

back at square one. No

38:22

suspect and no answers. According

38:25

to our partners at Connorsville News Examiner,

38:27

mcclong confessed to the killing in exchange

38:29

for

38:29

immunity and dismissal of two other

38:32

cases. But that agreement was thrown

38:34

out after he didn't disclose the location

38:36

of Flums remains. Two months later,

38:39

Judson McMillan, the defense attorney for

38:41

the case, says mcclong recanted

38:43

his confession, saying in a statement

38:46

based on my own private conversations

38:48

with mcclong and his overall lack

38:50

of credibility, I believe the person

38:52

responsible for the death or disappearance

38:55

of Denise Flum is still out there.

38:57

Now, I still believe it's possible that

38:59

Denise's

38:59

disappearance and murder could still

39:02

be solved one day. Of course, in order to achieve

39:04

this, police need to find her

39:06

body. And keep in mind,

39:08

there are two people still

39:11

alive who have

39:12

admitted to killing Denise.

39:15

Or at least people have heard them admit

39:17

to killing Denise. But without proof,

39:20

investigators can't make an arrest. And

39:22

so there are so many possibilities of what

39:24

could have happened to Denise. And

39:27

of course, I want to know what you think.

39:29

Do you think it was Sean? Do you

39:32

think it was Benny? Do you think it was Randy?

39:35

Do you think it was Benny and Randy together?

39:37

Do you think there were more people

39:39

involved? Someone that we haven't even brought up yet?

39:41

Do you think it was Larry? Is

39:43

it possible that Sean, Benny and Randy

39:46

were all in on it together? I mean, Sean

39:48

did bring them back to the Johnson

39:50

family farm when he said he knew where the body

39:52

was. I mean, who really knows? What

39:55

I do know is that this

39:57

investigation could have been handled so.

39:59

much better

40:00

and I'm sure that has to be so incredibly

40:04

frustrating for Denise's parents.

40:06

I truly can't imagine being

40:08

in their position and having lived all this

40:10

time without her and without answers.

40:13

Denise seemed like an incredible person.

40:16

She did not deserve what

40:18

happened to her and it's a shame that no

40:20

one's ever been held accountable for her death. I

40:22

can only hope that eventually her body

40:24

will surface and

40:27

we'll get answers to all of these questions

40:29

and that maybe,

40:30

maybe there will even be

40:32

justice for this family and for Denise.

40:34

I really wish I had a different ending

40:37

on this case for you guys. I wish there

40:39

was more information. I wish there were more

40:41

leads but unfortunately

40:43

that's all there is as

40:44

of now.

40:48

That is going to be it for me today guys. Thank you

40:50

for joining me for another episode and make

40:52

sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

40:55

It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video

40:57

version of this show you can find it on my YouTube

41:00

channel which will be linked or you can just search

41:02

Kendall Rae. I will be back with another episode

41:04

soon but until then stay safe out there.

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See site for details.

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Save big on your favorites with the buy five

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or more save a dollar each sale. Simply buy

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five or more participating items and save a dollar

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each with your card. Kroger fresh

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for everyone. Meet Nate.

41:47

By day he works in IT but when he

41:49

gets on the bike he becomes nature

41:53

Nate. An outdoorsy

41:55

type with his head in the clouds and a weak supply

41:57

of trail mix in his cargo pants. Nate

41:59

NatureNate leaves no trace, except

42:02

for native wildflowers. If a tree

42:04

falls in the forest, it'll help it get back

42:06

up. And NatureNate rides with Geico,

42:09

because getting specialty coverage for his motorcycle

42:11

is the natural choice. Geico Motorcycle,

42:14

expert coverage for both

42:15

your sides.