0:00

I've heard that there's a house that has some

0:03

bodies in the basement. Somebody told you

0:05

that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.

0:07

I'm come to find out.

0:08

This is like it exploded into

0:10

this huge thing.

0:12

I knew, I just knew something was wrong.

0:14

Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride

0:16

Again was shot dead.

0:18

I kept calling his phone during the drive.

0:20

Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

0:22

It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.

0:25

His murder has attracted national attention,

0:27

with the investigators saying he was targeted.

0:29

Eventually a police officer answered and told me to

0:32

come to the police station.

0:34

Justice is something that takes

0:36

different shapes or forms.

0:38

If you know something, heard

0:40

something, please it's

0:42

never too late to do the right thing.

0:45

So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin,

0:47

and.

0:48

I'm John Green. For about

0:50

a decade, Deanna and I spent a lot

0:52

of time on the Internet, especially

0:54

in the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify

0:57

and get animal abusers arrested.

1:01

We spent countless hours scouring the dark

1:03

web helping catch predators. We

1:05

spent over a year and a half trying to get law enforcement

1:08

to take us seriously about a man that was killing

1:10

cats online and he was threatening to move

1:13

on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnatdah.

1:15

Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix

1:17

special called Don't Fuck with Cats.

1:20

That's us. Well, now we're

1:22

turning our online investigator skills to

1:24

some of the most unexplained, unsolved,

1:27

and just ignored cases.

1:29

This is True Crimes, the

1:32

production of iHeartRadio and Kati's

1:34

Studios.

1:36

This episode was recorded on September

1:38

tenth, twenty twenty three, five weeks

1:41

after the arrest of Jared's ex wife, Shanna

1:43

Gardner Fernandez. In this episode,

1:46

John Green and I are joined by Kirsten Bright

1:48

Agan to discuss the arrest, the upcoming

1:50

hearing, and more importantly, how Kirsten

1:52

and her family are doing following all these events.

1:55

So here we are. Now, we

1:59

know Mari I was arrested, and he's he's

2:01

got he's got some sort of a hearing

2:04

on Tuesday, right, and then

2:06

the new news is that Shanna

2:09

Gardner Fernandez has been arrested. She's

2:11

currently in Washington, and

2:14

I'm assuming that there'll be some sort

2:16

of extradition hearing, which I believe

2:18

she is not fighting to come to

2:20

Florida to get arraigned in Florida.

2:23

Now, I did look for

2:25

a probable cause ebidavit, and there has not

2:27

been one released yet. I'm assuming they

2:29

have to wait for her to get into the

2:32

state of Florida to present that, because

2:34

that's when it will become court record, you know. But

2:36

I wasn't able to find anything.

2:38

I have been looking because

2:41

I really want to read that. But how

2:43

are you feeling?

2:45

I mean today, I'm good. It's

2:47

it's the weirdest thing. We knew a little

2:49

bit in advance that she would be into

2:52

custody. You know, we were waiting around that morning at

2:54

the courthouse for news,

2:57

so even just that morning

2:59

and since and it's just been all of

3:01

the emotions. It's been Happiness isn't

3:04

the right word, but I think it's like a finally

3:06

like we got here. We've been waiting for

3:08

this, like this is the final big

3:10

piece of the puzzle. So a

3:13

little bit celebratory, to be honest,

3:16

but also a lot of just sadness.

3:19

I think a lot of that is, you know, reliving

3:21

everything and like realizing

3:24

like yep, this is what happened, Like

3:26

his life was taken for some ridiculous

3:28

reasons by some very evil

3:30

people, and realizing

3:33

what that means for Liam and Abbey. They

3:35

already lost their dad, they lost contact

3:37

with us, and now they're losing their

3:39

mom because of the decisions that she had made.

3:42

So it's just all over

3:44

the place. And even since then, it's been

3:46

just waves of emotion and I'm

3:50

I'm hoping that that'll start to even out,

3:52

but it's just it's been a ride, really

3:55

crazy ride.

3:59

I think that was our first thoughts too,

4:01

were Liam and Abbey, And I mean, this

4:03

is devastating for them, and I

4:06

just can't imagine how confused

4:08

they must be, and like I just they

4:10

need family, you know, and I hope

4:13

that you guys can you

4:15

know, make arrangements to make that, you know, because

4:17

they're going to need their sisters, you know, throughout

4:20

their life. I mean, this is forever,

4:22

you know, And now that they've lost their mom,

4:25

I mean she's still alive, but you

4:27

know, all intents and purposes, they've lost their

4:29

mom and I don't even know if they know what's going on,

4:31

but eventually they're gonna need, you know,

4:33

the positive influence of your family in

4:36

their lives and I hope. I hope that

4:38

comes to fruition sooner rather

4:40

than later. I hope that they don't have to wait for

4:42

Shana to get convicted for

4:44

you know, some sort of visitation

4:46

to occur.

4:48

Well, we've kind of touched on this

4:50

in speaking with you before about the Markel

4:53

Act and how this can only

4:55

apply to this case.

4:58

The spouse, SHANEO is

5:00

taken into custody, so we're we're

5:02

at that point now, right.

5:04

Well, she has to be convicted, I believe.

5:06

I have consulted with three separate family

5:08

law attorneys just to make sure I was getting,

5:11

you know, the right information, and that

5:14

is one of them didn't even know about the Act,

5:16

which surprised me.

5:17

Well it's so new, right.

5:19

Yeah, it's within the last year so and

5:21

one of them said, it's not a new law,

5:24

it's an update to an existing law.

5:26

So a lot of them just apparently aren't

5:28

aware that there is an update. But yeah,

5:30

it's upon conviction then

5:32

that update applies. But

5:35

again, it doesn't give me any right. It gives grandparents'

5:37

rights. So while that is something

5:39

that we could work towards, it

5:42

doesn't help the fact that me and

5:44

their sisters are not allowed to communicate

5:46

with them. Obviously, if Jared's parents

5:48

get granted visitation rights, then

5:50

they could choose that we could be part of that, which

5:53

would be a door right. But otherwise

5:56

I've been told I have zero rights to it.

5:58

Siblings, unfortunately, don't have rights

6:00

to it. So I'm actually considering

6:03

pushing forward a law in Florida

6:06

to give siblings, even half siblings,

6:08

rights to communicate with each other in situations

6:10

like this, because that's absolutely.

6:11

I think that would be It's crazy

6:14

to me that siblings don't have rights to their own siblings.

6:16

It's insane to me.

6:18

Especially it's like, Okay, this isn't like two

6:20

parents decided to move forward and they're each taking their

6:23

own kids from previous relationships. They're half

6:25

blood siblings who lived with each other fifty

6:27

percent of their lives, and one

6:30

parent allegedly murdered

6:32

the other and that's the only reason they are no longer

6:35

together. So like that should be a special

6:37

circumstance that is considered by law.

6:39

I agree, I totally agree. Yeah,

6:42

do you know when Shana will be extradited

6:44

to Florida.

6:45

So she has a hearing. I believe

6:47

it's on the fourteenth or the sixteenth

6:50

in Washington.

6:51

Yeah, Friday think.

6:52

Yeah, I have been told that

6:55

that's kind of irrelevant, Like what she is

6:57

fighting extraditions, So.

6:58

Oh she is I read that wrong then.

7:00

Yeah, so what she enacted

7:03

was habeas corpus, which basically means like produce

7:06

the evidence. So but

7:08

I've been told that doesn't really matter because what they're

7:11

doing now is Governor DeSantis

7:13

in Florida is signing an order saying

7:15

this is Shanna Gardner, the Shanna

7:17

Gardner that we need to prosecute here in

7:19

Florida. He signs this governor's

7:21

order and gets sent to Governor Ensley in

7:24

Washington State. That governor signs

7:26

it, and then she shipped over. So it's

7:28

kind of a game they're playing. I have been told

7:30

it's not going to result in anything. She's just delaying.

7:34

Well, it's good.

7:35

I was wondering, did you watch the arrest?

7:37

I did watch the arrest footage.

7:39

The body cam footage.

7:41

Yeah, what was kind of going through your mind while

7:43

you were watching that?

7:46

I was like, this is the strangest.

7:50

That is not how I expect anybody

7:52

to behave, especially if they're innocent when

7:54

they're being arrested, especially arrested

7:56

in front of their children. The fact

7:59

that she was so home and just

8:01

like if if someone came to arrest

8:03

me, I'd be like, what the hell are you doing? I'm

8:05

in I need a lawyer, like I

8:08

you cannot do this, Like I don't take

8:10

me. I need to be with my kids. I'd be trying

8:12

to talk to my children like I love you. Everything's

8:14

gonna be okay, I'll be back. There was none

8:16

of that in that footage. It was

8:18

like, oh, there's some Instagram orders Abby and

8:21

help me find my pants.

8:22

I was like what, And who's

8:24

gonna take care of my dogs? Like it was very

8:27

it was very creepy.

8:28

Yeah, Like that's so if you are innocent,

8:30

that's not how I expect you to react. And if you're guilty,

8:33

like that's the last thing you want to say to your kids,

8:35

possibly ever in person, Like

8:38

hey, there's Instagram orders like that. The whole

8:40

thing was just so chilling to me. It's

8:42

like, WHOA.

8:44

I have a feeling she just is like so used

8:47

to kind of getting her way with

8:49

life that she's just like, Eh, this

8:51

is just a temporary thing. It's not gonna be a big

8:53

deal. I'm gonna go I'm gonna talk my

8:55

way out of you know. I think I just feel like she

8:58

just is still not taking responsibility, even

9:00

in her own mind, for what's gone down.

9:02

That's the way it comes off. So what we're referring

9:04

to is when the Washington law

9:07

enforcement goes to her house

9:09

to take her into custody, she is

9:11

very nonchalant, no big deal,

9:14

acting like this is a normal occurrence

9:16

to happen to her. Luckily, the officers

9:18

are wearing bodycam footage that's

9:21

been released for the public to see,

9:23

and it is not the response

9:25

you would expect from somebody, I think,

9:28

and it does come off

9:30

very creepy and sociopath

9:33

and not taking in understanding

9:36

what's fully going on. You're being taken into

9:38

custody to be brought back to the

9:40

state you used to live in to be

9:42

held accountable for the death of your ex husband.

9:45

Normal people don't act that way, not

9:47

at all. It is very creepy to watch.

9:50

Well, and it just broke my heart further for Leam

9:52

and Abbey, like that that was one

9:55

they witnessed it, but two that their

9:58

mom wasn't focused on them and

10:00

like making sure they're okay and saying that she

10:02

loves them like that. I

10:04

just felt so heartbroken for them.

10:07

So do you know where they are right

10:09

now? If that's something we can ask?

10:12

Yeah, So I believe they

10:14

are still in Washington State. In

10:16

fact, I know they're in Washington State

10:18

with her mom. So Shanna's

10:21

mom, Shelley Gardner, and I

10:23

have heard that some of Shanna's sisters

10:25

are in rotation on who is coming out

10:28

to view with them as well. So

10:30

they're still in Washington.

10:34

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back

10:36

in a moment. So

10:49

you often heard hear the phrase that the wills

10:51

of justice moves slow. This

10:53

incident happened in February

10:56

twenty twenty two. Police

10:59

today an extensive investigation.

11:02

Finally somebody, a person of interest, is

11:04

arrested in January of twenty twenty three.

11:06

Eleven months later, then in March

11:08

of twenty twenty three, Mario Fernandez

11:11

is arrested. Who just happens to be married

11:13

to Shanna Gardner. Now and now here

11:15

we are in September,

11:18

and now she's taken into custody. What

11:20

if you wouldn't mind sharing, what's it like

11:23

going through that whole process?

11:24

It's got to be like, what's

11:27

taking so long. What's it like for

11:29

you?

11:31

Yeah, you know, so that night I was

11:34

pretty damn sure that I knew who

11:36

had done it once I learned the circumstances

11:38

of how he died. So when

11:41

you feel that strongly about something,

11:43

every day feels like an eternity

11:46

waiting for law enforcement

11:49

to catch up with what you already know. Like,

11:51

get, they have a job to do. They had to look into me,

11:54

they had to look into siblings. I'm sure everybody

11:56

around Jared they had to look into I get it,

11:58

But it seems like an attorney while you wait for

12:00

them to get to the truth. And then when

12:03

we are informed of the first arrest, a

12:05

man I had never heard of, obviously,

12:07

it's like, okay, probably a hired

12:10

person if what I believe is true.

12:12

But like, okay, you got him, so now get

12:15

the other ones. But it takes longer,

12:17

and they have to build their case and keep looking for evidence.

12:19

So it's excruciating,

12:22

and part of you feels like your life's

12:24

just frozen in time, like you can't

12:26

move forward mentally, spiritually,

12:29

physically, like it just you just feel frozen. But

12:32

then on the other half, I'm a mom, I have

12:35

to move forward. I have to be there for

12:37

the girls, and like they're growing, they're learning,

12:39

and that part of life doesn't slow down. So

12:42

it's a really weird position to be

12:44

in where you have feel stuck in that

12:47

night and then your other foot is being

12:49

dragged through reality and you

12:51

have to try to catch up. And sometimes

12:54

it still feels surreal, like I still

12:56

think I'm gonna get a text or a call from

12:58

Jared and he's gonna come home, the kids can

13:00

come home. That's not going to happen,

13:02

and you just have to remind yourself about

13:04

that.

13:05

Yeah, and what are you doing to kind

13:08

of keep everything together,

13:11

like especially considering that now that Shin

13:13

has been arrested, this is kind of

13:15

just the beginning, right, Like this is going

13:17

to take at least another year.

13:19

Yeah, I honestly expected to feel

13:22

different, like after she was arrested,

13:24

and I think I do a little bit, like, oh,

13:27

there's a little sense of great,

13:29

we closed a chapter, a horrific

13:31

chapter. But now it's like there's

13:34

a lot more coming and it

13:36

can take years. And we were we were told that

13:38

after her arrest that this could be years

13:41

of waiting in court and

13:43

all of that, especially if she's doing what it

13:45

looks like she's going to do and drag her feet

13:47

every step of the way. So I'm just

13:50

trying to find outlets, you know. Like

13:52

I Friday when we were going

13:54

to talk, I was just I

13:56

was in a it was a bad day for me. I

13:59

went to am I actually went to a Brazilian

14:01

jiu jitsu class because I just felt like I needed

14:03

to get some anor house

14:07

And I think I'm going to keep doing that because

14:09

I cannot how good.

14:10

That yeah, like even if it's

14:12

healthy.

14:13

Yeah, And so I think this

14:15

this now is the time where I prioritize

14:18

me because I've been put on hold,

14:20

Like I've been trying to prioritize the kids, prioritize

14:23

the case, putting Jared's memory out there. And I'm

14:25

still going to do those things, but I also need to take

14:27

care of myself or I'm gonna I'm gonna

14:29

run out of gas before we're at the end of this.

14:31

So that's that's kind of where my focus is shifting

14:34

now. It's like, how do I take care of me so that I can

14:36

take care of the kids and everything

14:38

else that's coming down the road for the long

14:40

term.

14:41

Yeah, because like you do have a long road

14:43

ahead of you, right, Like, I know you already

14:45

know all this, but for the viewers, there's

14:48

a trial, and then if it's if it's

14:50

death penalty, there's appeal upon appeal,

14:53

upon appeal, upon appeal, there's victim

14:55

impact statements to write, you know, like her

14:58

daughter, Kirsten's daughter was

15:00

in the car when Jared was

15:02

shot and killed. Like, there's so many

15:04

different elements to this that you

15:06

really have to be You are the perfect

15:09

example of like a strong

15:11

woman. And this is

15:14

not to say that other victims of crime are not strong,

15:16

but miss Bride again has been rock

15:19

solid throughout this whole ordeal. I don't know how

15:21

you've done it, but I think she's created

15:23

a foundation for a charity.

15:26

And I mean, you've done so many positive

15:28

things in Jared's name. I think

15:30

that's probably helped you some, like with your healing

15:33

and whatnot. Like his death is

15:35

never going to mean anything. I mean, it's it's

15:37

tragic and it's terrible, it's awful, but you've

15:39

given you've given his name meaning

15:41

and I just I can't say

15:43

enough positive about that, and it doesn't really matter.

15:45

But I really admire you a lot, and

15:48

you have to take it. You know, when you when you're on an airplane,

15:51

they tell you if the safety

15:53

masks come down, put the mask on you

15:55

first, because you have to be conscious

15:57

enough to be able to put them on your children and whatnot.

15:59

So that's that's what you really have to focus on, because

16:01

you have a really long battle ahead of you, like

16:03

a really long one. And I know you're very strong,

16:05

that's my whole point. I know you're super strong, But

16:08

I just don't know that anybody is really prepared

16:10

for like the mental gymnastics that

16:13

this legal team is going to try to pull.

16:14

Yeah, And that's honestly just what I think. That

16:16

makes me sick. It's like, what are they going to say?

16:18

Like they don't You just don't know what they're

16:21

going to try to say. Is it defense or

16:23

to justify maybe what happened?

16:25

Like and that just do

16:27

you think they're going to flip on one another?

16:29

Yeah, that's the question. Do you think do you think

16:31

Mario is going to stand his ground and say I'm

16:33

innocent?

16:34

That's the big question on Reddit right now.

16:36

Has Mario flipped and provided evidence

16:39

that led the police to get Acre into

16:41

custody.

16:43

I don't you know. Here's the thing. I don't think

16:46

they're going to be offered anything. I

16:48

feel in my heart of hearts the cops have them

16:50

dead to rights and there's enough

16:53

evidence and they're not going to be offered.

16:55

They're not going to be offered anything. I think they're going to

16:57

go for the DP for both of them. I think Henry

16:59

Tennan is gonna spill the beans. Maybe

17:02

I'm wrong. I think Henry Tennan's going to spill the beans

17:04

to save his own ass. And I

17:06

think Mario and Shanna Sorry,

17:09

are are dead rights.

17:10

I really do.

17:11

At least that's my hope. At least that's

17:13

my hope. I just feel in my heart of hearts

17:16

like the wheels of justice do take long. But I

17:18

feel like with anything that's

17:20

being extradited, your dot,

17:22

your eyes have to be dotted, and teas

17:24

have to be crossed. Everything has to be perfect.

17:27

And just so everybody knows, Deanna

17:29

is a live court room fanatic. She

17:32

literally like will watch them while she's at

17:34

work, so she knows these things.

17:36

Yeah, well I don't. I don't know these

17:38

things, but I do a little bit. I do a little

17:40

bit, But they really have to be good.

17:42

And even though Shanna is fighting

17:45

extraditions, it's not going to mean anything. Extradition

17:47

is rarely not granted, you

17:49

know what I mean. It's always granted within the Continental

17:52

Unit, well within the United States as a whole. Yeah,

17:54

I can't imagine any scenario in

17:57

which, now, if she was in Italy, that

17:59

would be a difference because the death penalty

18:02

places. There are places in like the EU

18:04

and whatnot that will not extradite to

18:06

a death penalty state, but within the United

18:09

States it's rarely not granted.

18:11

So she's gonna be coming home to Florida to

18:13

face justice. But it's gonna be a really long

18:15

road. And with the money that they've got, they're

18:18

gonna hire some good lord, They're gonna they're gonna try

18:20

to find every mistake the cops made, every

18:22

single.

18:22

One, Yeah, for sure.

18:24

So it's gonna be it's gonna be a really rough road

18:27

the next year, in the next two years, it's gonna

18:29

be a rough yeah, But it's not gonna

18:31

stop, you know, her trying to

18:33

run and pay and throw her little Princess

18:36

Tierra around is not gonna help her at all. It's

18:38

just gonna delay things, that's all it's gonna

18:40

do. I just don't feel like Mario or

18:43

Shana will flip all one another. She

18:45

might, but I don't think Mario will.

18:48

It's hard to get into the mindset.

18:50

It is hard to get into the mindset. But

18:53

I mean, this all makes so much more

18:55

sense now things are now more black and

18:57

white, especially that route home, especially

18:59

that round.

19:00

Yeah. I remember the first time talking

19:02

with you, Kirsten. You were telling us about your gut

19:05

feeling that night and how you just knew

19:07

right from the start, you knew what happened and who

19:09

the people are involved. And so it

19:11

must be there must

19:14

be that sense of satisfaction, like I knew

19:16

this all along. Finally I

19:18

knew it, and now look what's happened. It must

19:20

feel good for you.

19:21

Yeah, I mean in a sense. Yeah,

19:23

in another sense, it's like I wish this never

19:26

happened, never happened, and just the

19:28

reality of like even though what

19:30

I thought was right, like the kids are still

19:32

not allowed to talk to it. Like I just feel like

19:34

I'm being punished for saying what I thought

19:37

happened, Like the kids are being punished

19:39

because I've been so vocal, and that

19:41

is heartbreaking to me. Like I truly

19:44

believe that there's some blame put on me

19:46

by Shannon's relatives for

19:48

the fact that he's in jail right now, and that's

19:50

why the kids are not allowed to speak to us like

19:53

that. My gut feeling about that situation

19:55

too.

19:56

That you're probably right, but that's insane

19:58

that they would be so they're

20:01

punny. Oh God, I don't even know what to say

20:03

to that.

20:04

I think they're probably worried that the kids would say

20:06

something to you about anything that they

20:08

saw going on, and that's

20:10

what they're really ultimately scared

20:13

of.

20:13

I thought that too, but just

20:16

with them, Like the last week or so, Shanna's

20:19

mom has allowed Jared's parents

20:21

to talk to the kids via FaceTime, so

20:23

like she's allowing Jared's

20:25

parents and Jared's sister to talk to them,

20:28

but continues to ignore me. So

20:30

to me, I'm like, if you were afraid of them saying

20:33

something, you wouldn't just not allow

20:35

them to communicate with any of the family. But you're

20:37

being very at who you are

20:39

not allowing to communicate and it's me and

20:42

our girls like they're sisters, which is just

20:45

Ah, that's why.

20:46

She's punishing you personally. Do you think

20:48

it might have anything to do with the fact

20:50

that that they were divorced and

20:52

he remarried and had children with another woman.

20:54

Do you think it has anything to do with that, Like she doesn't

20:56

recognize you as like legitimate or anything

20:59

like that.

20:59

I don't think so. I think there's

21:02

just a level of hatred for me because

21:04

of like a personal Yeah, because I've

21:06

been vocal and there's been a

21:09

lot of heat on their family and the media,

21:11

and I'm sure they blame me for all of it. And that's

21:13

just my personal belief because why

21:16

allow communication with everybody else,

21:18

but like the siblings that you know your grandchildren

21:21

love and adore, you won't let them

21:23

communicate with Like that's just right.

21:26

There was a big stamp and up convention here in Vegas

21:28

when she got arrested, and I saw the signs.

21:30

I saw the signs and I was like, oh.

21:32

And then literally she got arrested and I was like,

21:35

oh my god, I wonder

21:37

if Shelley's here. And then I went watched

21:39

the video and I was like, oh, nope,

21:41

Shelley's in Washington. Yeah,

21:44

oh my gosh, Yeah, there are a bunch

21:46

of them running around crazy.

21:49

Well, well, hopefully the who

21:52

has custody of the children. It's just a temporary

21:54

thing. Right now, this is step one. You needed

21:56

an arrest to happen. You've gotten arrest.

21:59

Now there comes everybody's due, a

22:02

right to have a fair trial. She's going to have

22:04

a trial. Depending on the outcome

22:06

of that trial, she's found guilty, which could

22:08

take years from now. I found guilty,

22:11

That's when the Mercle Act kicks in, and then

22:13

Jared's parents can ask for permission

22:15

to see the kids, which when then hopefully give

22:18

you access and your and

22:20

your kids to see them as well. So one

22:22

step at a time. This is a big one.

22:25

Next is the trial that we all know is going

22:27

to probably be lengthy, and

22:30

I'm glad to hear you're doing things for yourself

22:32

and to take care of yourself. Does

22:34

the state of Florida provide like a victim

22:36

advocate or anybody to help you.

22:39

So there's a victim's advocate through the

22:42

court house. I really don't interact

22:44

with her unless we're at court. So like

22:47

the Sheriff's office in my home

22:49

county, Saint John's County has victim advocates

22:51

and they're great. I've talked to them before. But the

22:54

Jack's Beaches, I don't think they even had one, So

22:56

where the crime happened, their jurisdiction

23:00

ever been offered victim advocate from

23:02

there, So no is

23:04

the short answer.

23:08

Let's stop here for another quick break.

23:23

How would you describe your experience working

23:25

with the law enforcement on this case, on Jared's

23:27

case, it's been frustrating, good, bad?

23:30

How would you I.

23:31

Would say mostly positive. Obviously,

23:34

it's a hard situation and I hound

23:36

them, especially early on. I was hounding

23:38

them every day. I was down there

23:40

a lot. I was pulled in for interviews

23:42

a lot. They had me look for evidence

23:45

around the house for like things they wanted me to give them,

23:47

so I like took car folds of stuff over there.

23:50

So it's a hard situation. And

23:52

I understand when they can't tell me things

23:54

and why they can't tell me things. So

23:56

I think me being understanding of the situation

23:58

they're in and them being empathetic towards

24:01

me, it's been overall positive.

24:04

It's just obviously frustrating when they can't

24:06

tell you everything they know. When you want to know everything.

24:08

Right and you want to know everything right now, you know, Yeah.

24:11

Like I don't want to wait, but

24:14

I have to for something.

24:15

No of course not, of course not. How

24:18

are the girls? Are they doing good? Do they know what's going

24:20

on?

24:21

Bexley does? London is just too so she doesn't.

24:23

She doesn't really know, Like she knows who Jared

24:25

is, Like she'll see pictures and she'll say Dad, but

24:28

I haven't told her like oh he died,

24:30

Like she's too young for that right now.

24:32

But Bexley, obviously she was there,

24:35

she knows. And with each arrest

24:37

I did tell her, you know, we have a lot of family around

24:39

when that happens, our friends all know. I'm

24:41

sure she's going to hear it. So I made

24:43

it a point to tell her that one of the bad

24:45

guys that hurt Dad got arrested. He's in jail.

24:47

He's a wait for a long time. And

24:50

she referred to that as long time out, so like she

24:52

she processes it in her own way.

24:54

And then with Shanna's arrest, she had already

24:57

referred to Shanna as the mean mom because

24:59

I I was honest with her. She'd say

25:01

I want to talk to Lim and Abbey, and I'd say I've

25:03

asked and their mom said no, So like

25:06

I would say that I would not comment any

25:08

further about Shanna. Yeah,

25:10

but I would say they said no or they're

25:12

not responding, And so she said,

25:14

well, she's a mean mom. And so when I

25:17

told her that she was arrested, she said, the

25:19

mean mom's arrested. She's in a long

25:21

time. OUT said yeah, and then

25:23

she's like, well, now we can talk to Liam and Abbey and

25:25

I had to kind of go over that, well, not

25:28

not yet. We'll try, but still

25:31

not yet. So right,

25:33

yeah, she has a four year

25:35

old understanding of what's going on.

25:38

Just I still can't believe she was in the car, Like

25:41

was she on date nights all the time.

25:44

Like ninety eight percent of the time.

25:46

So they knew, they knew, Yeah,

25:49

she was going to be in the car. And that is

25:52

I mean, okay, I hate I mean, obviously

25:55

killing Jared was absolutely wrong, but they did

25:57

it with a two year old in the car and they

25:59

knew she would be there. Yeah, that's like

26:01

a level of it's

26:04

just it's just mind boggling

26:06

to me that Shana or even Mario,

26:09

I mean, they knew her, they knew her.

26:11

How could they knew that the kids

26:13

loved her? You know, like even if you don't really

26:15

care my child yourself,

26:17

you know that your children love

26:20

and adore their baby sister, that you're

26:22

going to be fine with giving her this lifelong

26:24

trauma.

26:25

Like it's well, not only that, but they could

26:27

have killed her. Yeah, exactly could have

26:29

killed her.

26:31

Yeah.

26:32

I can't let myself think about it too much. I just extremely

26:35

angry.

26:36

But I mean that was always a question like did they

26:38

know that, I mean, was she with on

26:40

date nights a lot? Oh, ninety

26:43

percent of the time. Huh, that's even

26:47

well. I hope that is, you

26:49

know, the the child charge they have

26:52

is pressed. I hope that that's made abundantly

26:54

clear to the jury that you

26:56

know this was done with the knowledge that his

26:58

two year old daughter was in the car. Yeah,

27:00

the twins like half sister. Like, it's

27:03

just crazy to me, so stupid.

27:05

True Crimes is executive produced by

27:08

Stephanie Lydecker, Deanna Thompson,

27:10

Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane,

27:12

Andrew Arnout, and me John Green.

27:15

Additional producing by Connor Powell

27:17

and Gabe Castile. Editing by Jeff

27:19

Ti Music by Vanicor Music.

27:22

True Crimes is a production of iHeartRadio

27:24

and Katie Studios. For more podcasts

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from my Heart Radio, please visit the iHeartRadio,

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