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Music.

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Hey, everybody, and welcome to another True Stories of Tinseltown.

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And I have a really, really great guest for us today.

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He is award-winning, woot woot, author Anthony J. Moore.

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And he's here to talk about his book, Every Other Weekend, Coming of Age with

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Two Different Dads. Hello, Tony.

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Hello. How are you, Grace? It's delightful to be here. Thank you.

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It's delightful to have you here. It really is. And I've told you before,

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I really enjoyed your book, and it did win awards.

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Congrats. How many? You won three or four, right?

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More than that. Now it's probably up to about seven. Go, baby.

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Good for you. That's so exciting. The hits just keep on coming.

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That's so nice. You deserve it. You really do. And it's a really, really good book.

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It's timely and many, you know, for us, for old Hollywood people,

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his dad was Gerald Moore.

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And he was a star. He really was, Tony. I'm looking at all the stuff he did. He did a lot of stuff.

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He definitely did. He really did.

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Especially at the very beginning, he was such a star on radio.

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And then on TV, he had loads and loads of feature roles.

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He wanted a series that only happened once and only for one year.

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And frankly, it was a career mistake at the time.

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But the number of feature roles he had on TV and then in several movies, quite impressive.

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Yeah, he did really well. And this is about you having the two dads,

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obviously. So we're going to go and start with you being a kid with mom and

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dad in Beverly Hills. Did you guys live in Beverly Hills?

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Well, it started in Sherman Oaks, but after my mom remarried,

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yes, it was Beverly Hills. But you guys were Sherman Oaks people.

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You had your life, your mom and dad were together, and things seemed to be okay

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for what you knew. Correct?

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You know, that's a very good question. Yes, from what I knew,

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things seemed to be fine. But looking back on it, I used to like to draw cartoons. I'm a terrible artist.

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I wanted to sort of tell stories in cartoons. And actually, a friend of mine

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down the street, a neighbor by the name of Peggy, was a superb artist.

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And so she illustrated a number of these as I gave her the storylines.

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But when I drew the cartoons, when the adults spoke to each other,

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flames came out of their mouths.

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Which doesn't sound good. It's not like rose petals or something.

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So I think that's pretty telling. Yeah. Yeah. There was an underneath everything.

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There was clearly a lot of tension. And I was picking up on it, although I didn't know it at the time.

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In cartoons, there were kids talking to each other, and that was fine.

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But when the adults, the man and the woman, talked to each other,

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fire emerged. So clearly, all was not well.

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It could have been cigarettes as well. They smoked a lot. My father, yes, but not police.

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But I mean, that says something. And you were, honestly, from what I got in

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your book, you're a pretty sensitive kid. You were very sensitive.

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So I'm sure you felt that as a kid. But you loved your dad.

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You loved him. Oh, I definitely did. I definitely did, despite the cigarettes and all of that.

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By the way, he also drank tons of coffee, which was good because that knocked

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out the smell of cigarettes. Oh, yeah. Now they don't smoke in the house, but I can only imagine.

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And your dad, this is something I've got to ask you while I remember it.

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You say your dad wore this jumpsuit that all these actors wore.

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Right. What was it? You've got to send me a picture of this jumpsuit.

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I think of astronauts or something like that. I can't imagine.

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You're getting close. You're getting close. It's basically a single piece of clothing, and you kind of have to jump into

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it with your legs, and then you pull it up and put your arms through the sleeves

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and zip it up from the front or the side or somewhere,

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and presto, you're in your jumpsuit. And that was like his favorite cash wear.

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Always. That's so funny. Now I know, but I'll have to look it up. Yep.

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And you, your dad was pretty open with you about things you asked him about.

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Did you ask him about sex or did he say, do you know anything about sex,

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about the seed and all that junk? Well, I, I, the first thing I remember was asking him where babies come from.

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That was on that trip out to a jungle, which isn't there anymore. But I remember that.

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And of course, it unfolded the way I wrote it in the book.

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But as we matured after the divorce, we would be together.

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I'm not sure who raised the subject. I was too shy to say, gee,

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there's this girl in my class and I like her. But somehow the conversation moved in that direction. And my father was very

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open, very candid, maybe a little too advanced for me.

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Well, he was teaching calculus to somebody who didn't know the multiplication table.

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Right. And it was pretty graphic. I mean, it's like, Dad, TMI.

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Oh, yeah. TMI. It was.

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Yeah, in many ways, it was graphic and probably too much too soon, but.

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He certainly educated me in that area. Boy, oh boy. Me too.

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Whoa. Gerald, man. Whoa. And so this was the 50s and 60s. You're going along.

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You're living with your dad. You think everything's fine. But later on, we see with the smoke coming out

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of their flames that you didn't. And do you know your dad is an actor?

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Like really get, you know, get the gist of it?

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Say that one more time, that he's an actor. Yeah, did you know at that time

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that he was an actor, and did it mean anything to you in that way?

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You know what I mean? Where some dads were, you know, accountants.

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Oh, sure. I knew what he did. I knew he was an actor, and I understood that he acted.

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And that was clear right from the start.

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And you did. He got you on something. What was it, kids?

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Little geniuses, and they asked you what you wanted to be when you grow up?

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I never said I wanted to be an actor. No, I mean, you wanted to. Because I wanted to be a gardener.

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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You were on that kids thing, the kids show. And they asked you. Yeah, I passed.

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And your father screamed out no because he knew what he had told you.

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He knew where I was going. Exactly. And you were neato when you went to school the next day, which was neato.

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And so your dad's there.

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He gets a thing. He could have done Maverick, right?

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He did do Maverick. Oh, he did? He played holiday at Maverick.

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So the big mistake in his career, the big goof, was he turned down the lead

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in Wyatt Earth so that he could work over in Europe with this dying television series.

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That was the goof. He wanted to be in Europe with the International Man of Mystery.

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With his jumpsuit. Eating Cold War spies and all that sort of stuff.

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And you guys went, your mother and you went to Sweden.

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My mother and I and my father's mother.

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Oh, yeah, she lived with you guys, right? Oh, she always lived with us,

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even after the divorce, for God's sake. Move, Grandma.

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She still lived in the house. Isn't that a little odd? Yeah, big time.

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Big time. Team daddy-o, right? That's what moms can't help but be.

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Obviously, you know, Grace, I didn't know what was going on.

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You know, I'm what, nine years old? You know, I'm not thinking in terms of the optics, you know,

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that here's my mother living with the mother of the man who left her for another

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woman. Your mom was a saint, I tell you.

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Oh, yeah. Yes, indeed. So you guys were in Sweden. You get to be an extra on the show.

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Pretty cool.

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You were ready for your close-up. And did you go to school there? I don't remember that.

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I did. I went to a Swedish school. Did you know the language? They spoke English, I'm sure. No.

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I didn't know Swedish at all. Did you like it? It's the Edvard Sven.

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Yeah, very good. Excellent. But did you like it?

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Because that's culture shock deluxe. It is.

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Looking back on it, it was certainly a broadening experience,

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but it was a difficult one. And I guess at the end of the day, I did have a lot of trouble with it because

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I really had no desire to go to Europe until after law school.

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I just, I mean, you know, my high school had an opportunity to spend a summer

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in France or Spain, depending on what language you were taking.

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And my French teacher wanted me to go to France with the group because I was

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doing well in the class. And I really wasn't that interested,

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but I went home and I told my parents, and they were very quick to say,

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no, you know, we're not going to send you to Europe.

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You're too young to do it. You won't appreciate it.

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You know, wait till you get to college and we'll send you over there.

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And I didn't find it. You know, you would think a kid like that would throw

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a tantrum because all my friends were going.

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And, you know, golly whiz, I want to be in Europe with all my friends for a

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supper. But I said, that's fine. You know, no problem.

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And, you know, that tells you something. And then when I got to college,

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yes, I could spend a year abroad or a semester abroad.

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I never asked. I never wanted to.

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I did go away one summer, but I went to South America instead.

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And I really, and even in law school, I had no intention of going over to Europe

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again until after graduation when I read a book by James Mishner called The

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Drifters, which is a really neat book at the time.

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And it kind of fired up my enthusiasm or reawakened my desire to go back to Europe.

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And so after passing the bar, I did go to Europe.

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Do you think it has something, we're going to get into this part,

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that you met, is it May or My Brit?

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My Brit. My Brit. That's what I always said, but somebody said it's May.

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My Brit. And she was what?

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She was like a script person on your father's show? They called her the script

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girl at the time. I think now you would call her the script supervisor.

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I guess basically reminding people of their line.

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Yeah. If they were talking and they kind of hesitated, they couldn't remember

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the next sentence, she would be sitting there on the set and she would cue them.

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And she came to your house as, you know, someone who worked with your dad and you met her.

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How was your mom? Did you catch anything of a vibe that mom got it?

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You know, I was too dense to pick up any vibes.

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Again, what am I thinking, that my father's having an affair with her? Absolutely not.

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This was somebody who was coming to the house. I will tell you that I was not that fond of her.

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This was prior to them breaking up. This was just meeting her. You didn't like her.

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Miss Biedinger, and she came over frequently during that year,

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and we went to her apartment as well.

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But I just, there was something about her. I didn't really warm to her.

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And she had two little kids, one four years younger, one six years younger.

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So at the time, there was no relationship at all.

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But I just, I remember thinking when we left Sweden to take our little tour

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around Western Europe, okay, this is good. I'm not going to see Maya anymore.

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And you weren't sad about it. I wasn't sad about it at all. I was happy about it.

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But at that time, you had no idea that your father was having the affair. No.

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Not a clue. I didn't know.

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Grace, I didn't know that they were involved romantically until the day he married. Jeez.

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You know, no one disgusts me about that. And I'm not judging anyone,

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but I'm kind of judging this because I think it's, you know,

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you're going to have an affair with a guy. And I blame the man.

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You know, he's married to your mother. But, you know, going to the house,

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hanging out with the wife and the kid, that skeeves me. You know,

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just I'm sorry, May Britt, my Britt. I'm going to call you May. Whoever. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was sad.

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I mean, and of course, as you know, their marriage was not good at all.

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They really fought a lot. And that was out in the open. I heard them many times,

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you know, getting angry with each other. And your mom, it must not have been easy for your mother being in Sweden.

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That must have been horrible for her in more ways than one.

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Oh, I imagine so.

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She seemed to be OK with it. You know, it's a new country. You're in Europe. You can look around.

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You're going to be treated well because, you know, your husband is an actor

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and, you know, with the lead in a series. So I'm sure there were a lot of advantages that kept her going.

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But I'm also sure she missed out. And I'm sure, you know, you didn't like her. And I'm sure your mother got the vibe.

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You know what I mean? I don't know how she couldn't have. You were a kid.

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Of course, she's not going to talk to you about it. But, you know, you know what I mean?

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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if she did. I remember one time,

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and I think I wrote about this in passing, there was one time when he didn't

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come home until much, much later, if not that late that night the next morning.

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But I know that my mother was very nervous because he just hadn't come home

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and she hadn't heard from him. My grandmother was there and she's nervous.

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And I'm sure now looking back, my mother suspected something.

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But she told me at one point that she was kind of naive and really didn't think

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that the two of them were together. Even back in L.A., she needed proof.

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They were sleeping together, and so like at five in the morning or something,

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she got in the car, I think with her mother, who was out visiting,

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and they drove over to my apartment, and they saw my father's car parked outside.

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Yikes. That's sad. I find that, you know, if you're going to have an affair,

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this is for anybody out there. Don't go to their house with their wife and their kid. Please.

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That's terrible. Anyway, I'm judging. I'm judging. Get a room. Get a room.

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Not nice. Nice. And so you guys get home.

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You're there. How long did you live there? A year? And then it didn't get picked up?

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Yeah, just about a year. The series ran after that for one year,

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and then that was the end of it. It was gone. And so you went home. He didn't have a job going home, right?

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But he was just, as an actor, going home.

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How soon after you guys get home did you find out that they were going to get a divorce?

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Well, we got home in 55, and I believe in 56, if I remember it right.

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And I wrote it in the book, and I have the court papers, so I was able to pinpoint what, where, and when.

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But just talking from memory, I believe it was 56 when they actually separated.

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It was actually around Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, that he moved out.

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And I think that was September 56. six.

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So I wonder if he was seeing, they kept in contact because he didn't see her

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yet. He hadn't been seeing her for a year, I wouldn't imagine.

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But I mean, I imagine they must have.

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I mean, obviously, you didn't have emails and you didn't have phone calls cost

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a fortune, but somehow or other, they kept in contact.

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And, you know, good question. I haven't thought about it until just now,

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Grace, as we're talking. If they're mailing letters back and forth, you know, who's picking Picking up

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the mail. My mother? I don't know.

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I can't imagine. Wouldn't that be really creepy? Well, we wouldn't put it past

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my, would we? Shame on you, my. Anyway, so you guys are home. Your parents sit you down, right?

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Telling you. And it's pretty, I can't even fathom that because my parents never divorced.

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My dad died early, but I never had that kind of thing. So tell us all, you're sitting there.

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I'm sitting there and I had a slight cold. You know, again, this is in one of the chapters.

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And they asked her to come downstairs into the living room.

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And they started talking about there are times when people don't want to live

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together anymore, even if they're married.

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And And, you know, so sometimes people are going to live apart and we've decided

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to do this and this doesn't mean anything to you.

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You know, I'm still your father. I'm still your mother. We always love you. We always will.

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But, you know, your daddy will not be living in the house anymore.

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And I'm sitting there thinking, what are you talking about? What's going on

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here? It didn't really sink in. And it didn't really sink in until one, two or three days later when suddenly

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there's no father in the house. He's not there at dinner. He's not there at breakfast. The meals are very silent.

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My mother seems really upset. That's when I began to think, again, that something had really changed in a

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fundamental way and in a very bad way. And you so loved your dad. And so he moves into a bachelor pad?

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I assume. You don't remember visiting him there?

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I think he got an apartment somewhere in Hollywood Boulevard. I was never there.

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You know, we spent every other weekend together, but usually during the day.

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I wasn't sleeping over then. And so wherever he was living, I don't know.

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My guess is with Mai, but I just don't. And her two little boys.

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I am, well, maybe not. Her little boys probably stayed with their father and sweet.

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The divorce between Mai and her first husband was very friendly.

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In fact, my father and Mai's first husband became very friendly.

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And I met Deet. He was a nice guy. He was an artist and just a lovely guy.

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And I know that his two kids, Tommy and Timmy, really loved him.

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Timmy wrote a song once called The Artist and the Man. He played it for me a

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number of years ago when we visited. It's a superb song. And Deet was a neat guy. And my guess is at that point, they were with Deet.

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They came to the U.S. later for school. But at that point, I don't think they were there.

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And you're seeing your dad every other weekend. Mom is distraught.

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When did you guys go to, she gets the house, pretty much.

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He gets everything else. And divorce wasn't really prevalent then,

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even in the entertainment business. It really wasn't. Right.

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So, you guys, when did you guys get to New York? You guys have to get out of

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the house. You scram to New York. That was February of 58th.

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Oh, so you were in California for a bit. You go. Yeah. That's where your mother was from, right?

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Yeah, she came from New York. And at the time, her mother still lived there

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along with her brother and sister. She wanted to go back and be with them. Upper East Side. It was a bit of a kerfuffle.

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I didn't know at the time. When I finally found the files, I realized there had been a kerfuffle with my

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father because, of course, she's moving me out of state.

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And so I'm not going to see my father for a long time.

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And there was a bit of a back and forth about it, but it was worked out between the lawyers.

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So, how did they interact with each other when he would come to get you?

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Or did he just stay in the car? Yes, stay in the car.

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I just walk out with my little duffel bag, jump in the car, and off we go.

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See him. So, you guys were in New York, and that is culture shock deluxe.

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You're on the Upper East Side. You see, like, bar fights.

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Welcome to New York City. There you go. and your mom all of a sudden meets this guy.

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Named Stan. It was a setup. It was a setup. They had a mutual friend, Mel Shabelson.

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Mel was the writer. He wrote for Bob Hope, among other people. He ultimately became the president

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of the Writers Guild of America West. And he had gone to high school with Stan, my stepfather. And Mel said to Stan,

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you know, I should have introduced you to this Rita more that I know,

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but she just moved back to New York. but if you're ever there,

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you really ought to call her. Well, Stan had to go to New York one time on business.

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He actually got stuck in New York. He was supposed to go on to Europe, but it didn't happen.

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And so he's got a free weekend in New York. He calls my mom.

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They get together. I'm there on the first date, and it was on the Staten Island Ferry.

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And the rest is history. He started inventing reasons to come to New York often.

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And they met in April, and by By December, they were married.

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What did you think of Stan when you first met him? Oh, I liked him, and I wanted him to get married.

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I wanted my mother to get married anyway. I mean, I was absolutely insistent

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that she get married, because I knew she was unhappy alone.

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As far as I'm concerned, she could have married King Kong, and I would have

21:14

been happy. Well, he is cute. He could have married the wolf.

21:17

I love his clothes. Fur. Handsome. Here comes Stan, and he's a nice guy.

21:24

So, yeah, I wanted them to get together, and indeed they did.

21:28

And so you liked him. He was a nice guy. He was Mr. Sailor. He loved to sail.

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I got seasick. I wasn't that happy about sailing.

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And Stan had it. He had like a really, it was kind of like a yacht kind of boat. It was huge.

21:44

Stan always had boats. He had had a very large schooner long before,

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you know, I came out on the scene. called the Constellation.

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It's like 76 feet long, which even today might qualify as a superyacht.

21:57

That's pretty big. That is huge. It's just on the... I mean, given today's culture, a 76-foot schooner is just

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on the bottom edge of being called a superyacht.

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I would think it would be. There are these mega yachts and giga yachts that

22:14

go up to like 300 feet. That's a lot of yachts.

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It is a lot of yachts. And by the way, they're terrible for the environment

22:22

because they just belch out diesel fumes all over the ocean.

22:26

Yeah, well, you know. But the county was a sailboat. It was very sustainable.

22:30

He was a good citizen. What a guy. Yeah. So they get married,

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and they're not married yet, right?

22:38

When you go back to California, you're like, get me out of here. Yay.

22:42

They have a test period. he had. Stan had been renting a house down in Newport Beach.

22:48

And so during the summer, he said, well, let's test this out.

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Come on out. And he put my mom up at a little motel down the street.

22:55

And so I've lived in the house where they did on West Bay Avenue,

22:59

and his two kids are there. And, you know, we bonded and we're playing around, having a good time.

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And of course, late at night, unknown to us, Stan would slip down the street

23:08

and be with my mother, but always back in time for breakfast.

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And so that was for two weeks. Then back to New York we go for September.

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But, you know, at that point, obviously, the future is written and they're going to get married.

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And back you go, this time to Beverly Hills. Right.

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They wanted a good school system, and so they picked Beverly Hills,

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which at the time was the best of the best.

23:31

So you guys go there. You meet Stan has two children from his first marriage.

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Exactly. And from day one, Skip, who was five years older than I,

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and still is five years older than I last time I looked, Skip moved out.

23:46

He said, that's it. I'm not living with my mother anymore.

23:49

I can't blame him. She was a bit of an alcoholic. And he said, that's it. And he packed up his stuff, came over the hill from

23:57

Sherman Oaks, actually, or Van Ise, and moved in.

24:01

So I immediately had an older brother, which I had always wanted.

24:05

It. So that made me happy. He seemed like he was a total California boy.

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He was the ex-California kid.

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He really was. He was absolutely the paragon of what you think about when you

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think of California in the late 50s, early 60s.

24:25

He kind of had a James Dean look many times.

24:29

He raced boats, raced sailboats, and he did very well.

24:33

He had a good old souped up hot rod, old 46 Ford with an Oldsmobile engine.

24:39

He drag raced all over the place.

24:42

He was very popular with the girls. His main girlfriend was the sister of a

24:46

big movie star. Troy Donahue's sister.

24:49

Yeah, I mean, Eve was a vision. And Skip was everything in that sense.

24:55

He was my invincible older brother. And he was everything that I wasn't.

25:00

He was terrible in school. He got bad grades. He almost failed French.

25:04

I think he did fail French. But, you know, here I am doing very well in school. But, you know, not getting dates.

25:12

I'm not driving around in hot rods, getting seasick.

25:17

You're adorable. You're so hard on yourself. You make me laugh,

25:20

though. The book is so good, you guys. You've got to read it.

25:23

Tony has so many great stories, and he's so funny. You're going to laugh out loud in a lot of these.

25:28

So you're there. He has a daughter, Leslie, right? Is that her name?

25:32

Yeah, Leslie. She lives with mom. How did mom get along with the stepkids? Very well.

25:38

Extremely well. A lot better than I got along with my stepmother. Yeah.

25:42

My mom was really fabulous with them. Leslie used to call her in a jokey way.

25:48

She goes, hi, wicked old stepmother. Like that.

25:52

They loved her dearly. And of course, but don't forget also,

25:56

you know, Leslie's real mother was a problem.

25:59

And my and Leslie wanted to move in with us from the start. And the stand said,

26:03

no, you're too young. You should stay with your mother.

26:05

But Leslie came over, you know, every other weekend, the same protocol that

26:09

I followed with my father. But once we got into high school and Leslie could drive, then she came over.

26:17

She came over for summers and that senior year, she was there full time.

26:20

She just wanted to get away from the alcoholic Martha.

26:24

Yeah, poor lady. You know, that's horrible for kids.

26:28

I can't even imagine. Divorce is bad enough, but then having a mother who was

26:31

an alcoholic, that's a double ouch.

26:34

You get along good with the kids. Stan is the, he's sort of like the anti-Gerald.

26:43

They're very different. Although your dad loved you a lot as far as fathers

26:46

goes, and Stan loved his kids and loved you.

26:49

But I mean, your dad was Hollywood.

26:51

Stan was business. Yes.

26:54

That is absolutely true. But what's really ironic was that Stan had a number

27:01

of Hollywood friends who were soaring successes, like Mel Shavelson.

27:08

And Stan had nothing to do with Hollywood, but he's got Mel Shavelson as a close friend.

27:14

He has Harold Kress as a close friend. Harold Cress won two Oscars for best film editing.

27:20

He was very close with Sumner Long. Sumner wrote a hit Broadway play called

27:25

Never Too Late, and he'd been a screenwriter on the Lassie series, Lassie the dog.

27:32

So my father's friends were kind of struggling actors, not well-known or whatever.

27:39

But again, before the divorce, my dad had some very close Hollywood friends,

27:44

including Jeff Chandler who unfortunately I loved him

27:47

did you ever meet him I met Jeff and his

27:50

wife Marge and the two daughters who really I didn't get along with the two

27:55

daughters not that we were enemies but they were girls I was a boy and we're

27:59

little kids so you know we're not going to connect that that well but Jeff was

28:05

a lovely guy Marge was a statuesque lady who was very very close with my my mother,

28:10

and my dad and Jeff were inseparable buddies.

28:13

Yeah, I didn't. But after the divorce, my father's friends were,

28:19

you know, the struggling actors. And Stan, even though he's the anti-Hollywood, is running around with Oscar

28:25

winners and, you know, huge, hugely successful people.

28:29

And he, and you guys lived in... And one more irony I'll give you,

28:34

and that is my dad really didn't care very much for photography.

28:38

He had a little Argus 75 camera, and he barely used that, including in Europe.

28:43

He has very few pictures of the trip, which I now have, but they're not that good.

28:49

Stan, on the other hand, couldn't go through a day without snapping pictures, and he was a pro.

28:54

He was absolutely at professional level in photography. Can you imagine today?

28:59

Go figure. Well, he'd have his phone. He'd be snap, snap, snapping every second. Selfies, too. Yeah.

29:06

Geez. So, and also, he's in, you're in a beautiful house in Beverly Hills,

29:12

and your dad is living in an apartment now. You didn't go to the wedding, right, with Mai?

29:17

No. I was in New York when they got married, and I didn't know about the wedding

29:21

until my mother sat me down.

29:24

And July after that, she said, I have something to tell you.

29:27

How was that? That's what I learned. How was that to you? Sorry? How was that?

29:31

I mean, it's bad enough that they divorced, but then when you know the person,

29:34

and how did, you must have been kind of like, eh. I was devastated.

29:40

And so you go, when you have your dad now, it's still every other weekend.

29:47

And do you spend time in their apartment, which what I was trying to get at

29:51

is, too, it was not, you know, some she-she boom-boom apartment building or anything like that.

29:57

It started with a small house in Hollywood, a very modest house, which they rented.

30:04

Then they moved to a house near Universal City, which was actually a lovely

30:09

house. It was on Blair Road. It overlooked the Universal lot, which at the time was just a vacant land.

30:17

It was a really interesting house, which I always liked.

30:21

Then they moved to another house, which had a very commanding view of the city.

30:25

But see, all of these are rentals, and all of them were maybe for one year.

30:30

Then to a much smaller house in Beverly Hills, and then into an apartment.

30:35

So money was a problem. Money was a problem for my father.

30:40

And they were always sort of bouncing around, trying to find a place that was affordable to live.

30:45

And each one was a little less than the other.

30:48

And that must have been weird for you for going from one to the other.

30:52

Also, your dad was living with those two boys. How did you feel about that?

30:57

Well, Tommy and Timmy got along. I mean, again, there were little times that

31:01

spats, you know, siblings are going to hit us, but we got along and we are still

31:05

in touch and we're still friends. And, you know, in fact, Timmy lives in Hawaii and when Beverly and I were over

31:12

there the last time, We spent a couple of days with them, had a great time.

31:16

And Tommy has visited out here. He now lives in Texas.

31:20

At the time when they lived there, I'm sure I had a touch of jealousy,

31:25

but it wasn't overpowering.

31:28

And my father was sensitive to that. I remember, for example,

31:31

that he made a remark about being in the Christmas parade, the annual Christmas parade.

31:37

And he said that Tommy and Timmy had ridden the car with him.

31:41

And that kind of struck me. I was jealous. And I said, well,

31:44

gosh, I'd like to do that. Well, my father said, absolutely. And the following year, I rode in the parade with him.

31:52

And the year after that, I rode in the parade with him.

31:55

There are very good stories in there, a very touching one, towards the end.

31:59

The second time you were in the car with him where they didn't really know how to introduce your dad.

32:05

Right, right, because he hadn't been working. But how was that for you?

32:09

I used to watch as a kid that parade, the Hollywood parade. The parade was thrilling.

32:14

Yeah, the parade was thrilling. Here I am in the car and, you know,

32:17

looking at all the people lining the streets on both sides. And everybody's happy.

32:22

And, you know, there's this large garage where they had the parade, the party.

32:26

And I'm meeting all these stars, including Soupy Sales, who was an idol back

32:30

then for all the teenagers. And, you know, Shelly Fabry was there, and she was gorgeous.

32:35

I had a crush on her. Evelyn Rudy was there. I had a crush on her.

32:39

And so on and so on. But when Bill Welch came and it was time to be interviewed

32:45

toward the end of the parade and he comes up and he said, oh,

32:49

you know, Gerald Morey's done some very fine work.

32:52

It's off to me that there was a real problem, that my father had been slipping,

32:59

that Welsh didn't quite know how to be, what to say or how to say it in a gentle manner.

33:04

It was and he was gentle, but it was that was a little hurtful.

33:08

Did you see your dad's face? I'm sure it was like, ouch, a little bit for him.

33:13

That's weird. And I would be with you guys. And so Stan, during the summer or

33:18

weekend, Stan would bring you to his business.

33:22

And then you would go to your dad's sort of like the stage. What do you call those things?

33:28

Sound stages. You could go there. And then you went to Stan's,

33:32

which was a business, which you just adored. I'm kidding.

33:36

Just like you get seasick on boats. You loved it.

33:40

I'm sorry. I'm missing what you just said. There was a sound glitch. Can you say it again?

33:45

Yeah. I said, so you would sometimes go to the soundstage with your dad,

33:49

and then you would go, Stan wanted you to go and like earn some money kind of deal at his place. Yeah.

33:55

Correct. And you loved it.

33:58

Well, I didn't love Stan's office. I know. I'm kidding about that one. I don't blame you.

34:04

Yeah. I mean, business did not attract me at all. Although, as a little child,

34:09

I mean, you know, I would play office sometimes.

34:11

We're talking age five or whatever. You know, I didn't know what an office was.

34:15

But Sam's office was boring. You know, my father's sound stages and the industry

34:21

was, of course, much more glamorous and interesting. But I never really wanted to be an actor. I knew I couldn't act.

34:27

I had pride. And this wasn't my thing.

34:30

And you didn't have a burning desire. So what would be the point?

34:34

Because I'll tell you, being able to act ain't always, you know,

34:37

important in Hollywood sometimes, you know? Sometimes you just have to be.

34:43

So you're there. How do you get along with Mai when you're there?

34:48

Is she nice to you anymore like she was when she would visit your mom in Sweden, or was she more?

34:54

Mai was mercurial. There were times when she was very nice to me,

34:58

but there were other times she would really get nasty, get upset.

35:01

I remember one time my father and I were talking about population control.

35:05

One of us had read something by Margaret Sanger, and there was a big concern

35:09

about overpopulation, which is ironic. Back then, there were 2 billion people in the world. Now there are 8 billion.

35:15

Mai was very against population control, and she really got angry with the two

35:20

of us. She kept saying, you're insensitive and all of this.

35:23

And I was bratty. The more she got angry and said we were insensitive,

35:27

the more insensitive I got in the debate.

35:30

And finally, she just got up from the table and stormed away.

35:34

There were times when I would watch her get angry at my father for no reason, as far as I'm concerned.

35:41

She seemed like she nagged him a lot. We don't have any money.

35:44

We don't have this. We don't have that, which, you know, if you're hurting for

35:46

dough, but she seemed like she was not that supportive sometimes.

35:52

Yeah, that was not fun. That was not fun. And, you know, especially at the time

35:56

she said, don't you know that we're poor? Oh, that really got me in that one. You know, her just, you know, come on, lady.

36:02

Come on. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah.

36:06

Yeah. I mean, I'm sitting there wondering what's going on. Is this the woman

36:09

who married the actor thinking that she's marrying the big star and now she's

36:13

upset because there really is not as much money as she thought there would be?

36:18

Probably. Don't you think that's probably it? You shouldn't say that.

36:23

Speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me. No. And, you know, whatever.

36:26

I'm not around anymore to ask. Right. And in front of you, to boot.

36:30

And just I feel badly for you, Dad, for that respect. Perfect.

36:33

And you're living with Stan. How was that as you were going through your adolescence, teenage years?

36:38

How did you and Stan, you know, kind of, how did you guys do together? Yeah.

36:43

Generally, okay. It got better and better as we got older.

36:49

Stan was more of the disciplinarian. He wanted his kids to work.

36:52

There were many times he said, you have to come down and work today at the plant

36:56

when maybe I just wanted to go play with my friends or just sit around and read or do something else.

37:03

There were times when he would really get angry about what I thought were little

37:07

things, which I wrote about in the book.

37:09

That was a huge blow up because you had seen Stan blow up with your stepbrother.

37:14

And then when it came to you one night, you know, I don't, that was pretty heavy duty.

37:20

And, but he had never done that before, even close, right?

37:23

No, it was, it was, it came as a shock. It really did. It came out of the blue.

37:28

And, and frankly, Stan didn't remember it. Many, many, many years later,

37:33

we were reminiscing and we came to that point and he just remembered it in a very different way.

37:40

They do. And I'm not going to correct it.

37:43

I'm just saying, okay, Stan's, you know, at this point, he's like 90 years old.

37:47

Yeah, you know. I'm not going to go there. You know, let it be. It softens. Like my mom always said, I was never unhappy.

37:53

I was always happy. I'm like, really? I mean, they want to think that way.

37:56

You were always happy. Okay. That's wonderful.

37:59

You know, you can't blame him for wanting to think a certain way at that point. Right.

38:03

But he kind of goes after you because you left a couple of plates in the sink.

38:09

And you tell your dad the next day, which I don't blame you.

38:13

And your dad was sort of like, meh, right?

38:16

My father was, well, it was the first time my father saw an opening to kind of criticizing Stane.

38:24

He said, look, he's a strict disciplinarian. You know, he's much more rigid

38:29

than I am. He's much less fun-loving.

38:33

And he never came out and just said, oh, Stan's a jerk.

38:38

But he was kind of orbiting that adjective, if you will, or that descriptor, not adjective.

38:45

He was orbiting that descriptor, you know, Stan's a jerk. Or Stan's just going to be nasty.

38:52

Yeah. And did you ever hear Stan badmouth your dad? And that was the only time

38:57

your dad came even close to kind of saying Stan's a jerk.

39:01

The one time I heard Stan badmouth my father was when I was very upset that

39:07

Sunday night after Miriam had interrupted what we were supposed to have as just quality time.

39:13

And I was trying to do my homework. I was having trouble. I was getting very upset. Right.

39:18

I told my mother what was going on. She knew exactly what had happened.

39:21

And Stan came in and, you know, kind of in a whisper, he said,

39:26

your father should never have done that. And that's not even bad mouthing. He never should have. And this is an experience.

39:32

So your dad all of a sudden disappears.

39:35

Mai doesn't know where he is. You guys have no idea where he is.

39:39

And he disappears for a few days. Yeah, he had a habit of doing that. But this one I distinctly remember.

39:45

Remember, it was around the time that he was starting to see Miriam.

39:50

Things were wrong, I think, with mine, and he just took off. And so you meet Miriam.

39:55

You and your dad are out for breakfast, and you describe it as she heaves her

39:59

ample bosoms upon the table. I'm trying to, I'm trying to. You know, Grace, the other night I was at a banquet

40:08

with my judge pals, and they had read the book. And one came up to me and said,

40:13

I love what you say about her breath.

40:18

I laughed so hard. It's a riot.

40:21

I laughed. You guys have to read the line, but it's so funny.

40:24

I just remember you talking about her big boobs on the, like, just sitting there.

40:31

God, that must have been so weird to meet her. It was very weird to meet her.

40:36

But I'll tell you something which is not in the book. book. And that is,

40:40

although the story with Miriam initially was an essay that a literary magazine

40:45

published, and I said it in the essay, but I took it out for the book because

40:49

it didn't work with the timing. And that is, years later, I mean, like 2014, I'm at my gym, and there's this

40:58

woman there, and we become friendly. We don't date, but we're just friends.

41:02

And one night, we decide to just kind of hang out and have dinner.

41:06

And she looks at me and says, was your father an actor? And I said,

41:09

yeah. She goes, I think my aunt knew your father.

41:12

And I said, well, who's your aunt? And, of course, it was Miriam.

41:16

Wow. How creepy is that, though? Oh, your dream girl.

41:20

It was. Totally crazy. And Miriam was a trip because.

41:25

It was a definite trip. You got into that. You were in school government.

41:29

You were, like, debating team, things like that.

41:34

And one day you guys go on a break, right? You're doing something.

41:38

You're visiting Washington or something? Oh, I was at SC, the Western Forensics Institute. And so you get a phone call, and it's Miriam. Yep.

41:48

She's a weirdo. That's weirdo. She's telling you.

41:55

The sex life she's talking about with your father and all her emotions.

41:59

I mean, do you blame your dad for dumping her? But she kept calling you,

42:04

which was really creepy.

42:06

But then it leads to the big finale with you taping her, taping Miriam.

42:18

To play to my yeah that

42:22

was that was a woe in the book because that's like boy does

42:25

he really he he and mine no way so you're taping maxine you have them come into

42:30

your house where you're living in beverly hills and you wanted me to see how

42:35

nice it was or whatever and what you you must have expected that that would

42:39

be the end of their marriage because Because I would, hearing Maxine go on and on.

42:43

But you play it for them. Well, it ended like I never saw her again. Yeah.

42:50

I never did. But unknown to me, they continued to see each other until my father died.

42:55

And the reason I know that was after my friend Jan told me, you know, that she was the niece.

43:01

Miriam, by then, had just died. She had died three months earlier.

43:04

But she had two kids, one of whom I had met.

43:07

Well, the son called me, and he was very nice, and he said, you know,

43:11

there are some things at the house that we've always wanted to give back to

43:13

the family, and we got together.

43:15

We met, and one of them was a portrait of my father, and he gave it to me,

43:20

and I looked at it, and the artist had signed it in 1967.

43:25

Wow. So they never split. So it's clear circumstantial evidence that they stayed together.

43:31

They just went to ground and were more subtle and discreet about it. But you tape her.

43:36

And you play it in front of, in your house that you live with your mom and Stan,

43:41

and you play it back for your dad and for Mai.

43:45

Yeah. And they were just, your father was, you didn't get the response you thought you would get.

43:51

Well, you know, my father got angry at Miriam, not at me. Right. But he asked tape.

43:56

And I always wanted to, I'm sorry I never kept a copy of the tape.

44:00

I didn't have the machinery to duplicate it because it would have been interesting

44:03

to still have it today. day. But he took it and I never got it back.

44:07

Mai so reacted in a way I didn't expect. I thought she would be screaming and angry.

44:12

She didn't. She just sort of, you know, sat there kind of holding back tears.

44:17

Of course, what I did was as illegal as hell. It was a violation of the law.

44:22

And now here you are, Judge. Yeah. Ten days in solitary. Shame on you.

44:28

But that was so fun. That was a woe to me because I don't know that I probably

44:32

could have if I was you, I'm sure, because that's, you know,

44:35

come on, she was really so inappropriate. And.

44:39

And it was just something. So your dad is getting some TV work,

44:45

pretty much. Oh, the movie, the Mars movie.

44:48

What a story. The Angry Grinch. Yes.

44:51

Oh, my goodness. How depressing. Because your father, he did what was a good

44:55

one about the end of the world kind of thing, and he played a reporter?

44:59

Oh, Invasion USA. That was good, actually. I saw it on YouTube.

45:03

It just came up, you know, how they do that. And recommended it was your dad. But I had seen it before. work.

45:09

He was really good in that movie. Yeah, it's very good.

45:12

Yeah, I never thought as a kid, they never took me to see it,

45:16

which was probably a smart move. But I found it and watched it, you know, many, many years later.

45:21

And now the Cold War is over. Russia is broken up. And, you know,

45:25

and at the time, Boris Yeltsin was running the country.

45:27

So we all we thought we'd all end up, you know, friends.

45:30

But it was still a little frightening to watch the movie. But it was very good.

45:34

It was it's a really I highly recommended everybody.

45:37

It's a really really good movie. I'll link it to you on YouTube, everyone.

45:40

So, but he's doing this and he thought this would be a very successful film. He was excited about it.

45:46

You know, and I don't know if it was successful or not. No, he thought it might

45:49

be. Oh, he did. Yeah. Whether it did good business, I don't know.

45:54

You guys went to see it, you and your two stepbrothers, and he was telling you about it.

45:59

And you guys go to sit in a theater, which isn't very full.

46:03

Oh, this is Angry Red Planet. Yes. And there's like 10 people there.

46:09

And boom, and your poor dad left just like stunned.

46:16

Well, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, the theater was kind of a great D theater.

46:21

There was a piece of thread that hung across the projector.

46:25

Nobody did anything about it. My father told Usher go do something about it.

46:30

Yeah, it was just it was kind of a depressing evening. Oh, my God.

46:33

How was it for you sitting there watching that movie?

46:36

Did you like it? I liked the movie.

46:38

But it was, you know, the situation was depressing.

46:42

It was clear that's not what my father was hoping for.

46:47

Yeah, it wasn't going to bring him to superstardom, which is sad. sad.

46:51

And with Stan and you two, looking back, right, you think he was wonderful.

46:59

And now he was actually a wonderful person and a wonderful stepdad for you.

47:04

But at the time, how did you feel?

47:07

Conflicted. I mean, look, they were both good people trying to do their best,

47:14

but with lots of faults, you know, riven with faults, both of them.

47:19

I appreciated Stan. In many ways, he rescued me.

47:23

Without Stan marrying my mother, I would not have gone to the schools I went

47:29

to for college or law school. God knows what I'd be doing right now. I doubt I'd be on the bench.

47:34

Which, you know, Stan was very, very good, you know, but with plenty of fault.

47:40

As one person who reviewed the book said, if it weren't for Stan, I never would be a judge.

47:47

If it weren't for my father, I never would have written the book.

47:49

That's great. And it's just such a good book. And I liked Stan.

47:54

And I liked your dad. So your dad, he was in Europe. He was in Sweden when he died? Yeah.

48:01

Yes. They were trying, he was trying to make another series.

48:06

He had always tried to get another series after Foreign Intrigue tanked.

48:12

And he made at least three pilots from the time they came back from Europe until the time he died.

48:20

And the last pilot was made in Sweden. It was called Private Entrance.

48:25

And they literally wrapped it. It was in the can. and the next night he died. Of a heart attack?

48:33

He wasn't old, right? He was in his 50s. He was 54. Oh, my God.

48:38

He was 54. I did write a piece about this. I mean, it's obviously not in the

48:42

book because the timing was, you know, not part of the memoir.

48:45

But I did write an essay which was published in a small literary journal about,

48:50

you know, private entrance and his last pilot and what happened.

48:55

And when was the last time you saw your dad? I know he smoked like a chimney.

48:59

He was a big smoker. And like you said, he drank all that caffeine.

49:02

And I'm sure he had a lot of stress on him as well. When was the last time you saw your dad?

49:07

I'm sorry. One thing I'm holding, I've got a dog. I hear the dog.

49:11

He's like crying a little bit. Yeah, well, he has separation anxiety. My wife's off getting her hair done.

49:17

Oh, yes. And, you know, he's very attached to her and he gets kind of upset.

49:23

That's what you're hearing. Oh, I love Doug's. Are you kidding?

49:26

Makes me smile. But anyway, the essay is available.

49:31

It's called Private Entrance. That's the name of the essay. And it talks about the ending.

49:35

What's ironic is the storyline for the pilot had to do with cigarettes and matches.

49:43

And so my father had to smoke like a chimney as they filmed the series.

49:47

And nobody knew he was ill, though, right? There wasn't any outward sign or anything.

49:53

I mean, he had a doctor. I knew the doctor. I knew his kids.

49:57

And if the doctor warned him, I don't know about it. But back then,

50:01

who knew about cholesterol or anything else? Yeah, and your poor dad. And he drank all that caffeine. That doesn't help your

50:07

heart either. That's like, ouch. He loved coffee.

50:10

He probably drank between 10 and 20 cups a day.

50:15

Awful. So he dies there. And have you ever been to his grave?

50:19

You must have, right? Yes. Yeah, I did go to his grave in 1998, I believe.

50:26

Yeah, I went to leading her circuit, which is where he's buried. It's in a little crypt.

50:30

And that must have been devastating for you, because who would think?

50:33

Yeah, it was sad. That was, you know, it was true closure, if you will.

50:38

Did you ever see Mai again after that?

50:41

One time. You know, after he died, later that year, at the end of the year,

50:46

maybe in early January of 69, I was home, she was back at the apartment, and we talked.

50:52

And she described the last night, which I put in the book or in the essay, I think it was.

51:00

And hold on. Poor Ben here is just whimpering. Hi, Ben.

51:06

I'm petting him as we speak. Come on. All right. It's OK, boy.

51:10

We're taking care of you. Anyway, she she described what happened. And then she said, is there anything

51:16

you want here at the apartment? And, you know, I was just too,

51:20

I don't know, sad to really pick out anything.

51:22

I got his good conduct medal, his Army good conduct medal, and a couple of books,

51:27

which I knew he liked and which I liked. And that was it. I walked away and said goodbye to Mai and never saw her again.

51:34

And 10 years later, she was killed in a car accident.

51:37

Was she married to Sammy Davis Jr. then?

51:40

Oh, no, no. That's not Mai Britt from Sammy Davis Jr. Oh, this was a different Mai.

51:44

This isn't a different Mai. This is Mai Dietrich. Oh, wow. Where did I get my Brick?

51:50

She was from Sweden. The name is common in Sweden. Oh, I'm sorry.

51:57

I could swear that's what I read. I'm just seeing mine, so I must have just put that together.

52:04

Others have, too, I must tell you. Good. I don't feel so horrible.

52:08

You said something in the book about that. No.

52:11

You didn't have her last name in there, so maybe that's why I just assumed. But anyway, it was my.

52:17

And so you're back with Stan and he's there and loving with you.

52:23

And he lives to be 90 years old, which is.

52:26

Ninety six. Wow. Go Stan. Yeah. Go Stan. Your mom died years earlier. We were going to lose him a year

52:34

earlier. I mean, he was literally on his deathbed at the hospital.

52:37

And Skip and Leslie and I were over there saying goodbye to him.

52:41

And he rallied. I mean, literally, he had an encore for another year.

52:47

Oh, Stan, he was something else. He really was. I liked both of your parents.

52:51

I liked them both very much. And your mom had died years earlier, though.

52:56

Yeah, she died in 1994 at 78.

52:59

And so you stayed in touch with Stan. And one thing I found ironic at the end

53:03

was he was kind of being shy-stirred about a movie himself, right?

53:09

Wasn't some guy getting money and saying something about Stan being in a movie?

53:12

Well, he was he was being victimized by one grifter after. Yeah.

53:15

How horrible. Here's this here's this hard bitten businessman.

53:19

You know, he's not you know, he's not that generous. He's not being a philanthropist at all.

53:26

In the last 10 years of his life, he wants to be the philanthropist of L.A.,

53:31

and he wants to be known for that.

53:35

And all these flakes start gathering around, and it's clear all they want is money.

53:41

And I sat him down one time with our accountant, and I said.

53:45

Stan, don't you realize who these people are and what they're doing?

53:49

And he said, Larry, I appreciate your concern, but I'd like some.

53:53

He was buying friendship. All his friends died off. When you, and I didn't realize this,

54:00

but now I know, when you get, if you live too long, you lose your friends.

54:04

They offer you to face you. And so suddenly you are alone.

54:08

And who are you going to be friends with? Well, the grifters find you.

54:12

It's like ants at a picnic. They know where the food is.

54:15

And these, you know what, started calling and showing up and flattering the

54:21

you know what out of them. and Stan was a perfect patsy for them.

54:27

Vulnerable to all that stuff. And the last year, Leslie Skip and I in the last

54:31

year took over his finances. We got him to agree to it without a conservatorship.

54:36

And I remember there was this one guy named Victor and they met at a party and

54:42

Victor would show up and he kept saying, I'm a producer I'm going to put you in a movie.

54:46

And every time he showed up he'd help himself to about $100 out of petty cash.

54:52

And he kept saying, oh, I love your father. He's great.

54:56

Well, the day after Skip Leslie and I took over his finances,

54:59

I called Victor because I knew he was coming over that night.

55:03

And I said, I just want you to understand that there's no more petty cash here.

55:07

We've taken control of all of his finances.

55:11

And he didn't come, and we never saw him again. Wow.

55:14

What a sleaze. Yeah. What a sleaze. But Stan lived a good life. There were many like.

55:20

It's disgusting. And you're a judge. One thing about Tony, Tony was a lawyer

55:25

and now you, well, you're a judge, which is pretty big stuff.

55:29

Not only are you an award-winning author, you're a judge.

55:34

So, Judge Tony, that's pretty cool though. You did good for yourself.

55:39

You did really well. And the book is just, honestly, you know, it is a coming of age.

55:44

It is, I mean, there's so much to get into. So it is such a good read.

55:49

You'll laugh. It's about step-parenting, kids in divorce, in that time frame,

55:54

having a dad, having a stepdad. It's really good.

55:58

And you deserve every award you get, Tony. Honestly, you really do.

56:02

I read it twice because you were supposed to be a long time ago,

56:05

and then I had to reread. I knew much, but I had to skip through certain things.

56:09

And it didn't bore me. It's funny. And sometimes you miss something in the first read.

56:14

It's a really good book. You should be proud of yourself for that.

56:18

And you just feel you're very blessed.

56:22

You had two really good dudes. You had a wonderful mother.

56:25

And you're a very lucky kid, I'd say.

56:28

Well, thank you. I know. I do feel very lucky.

56:32

You know, it all worked out well. And despite a lot of the problems that,

56:36

you know, come along with any divorce, somehow I emerged.

56:39

You did. And you write it and we feel with you. You know, I laughed a lot and

56:45

I understood a lot of the stuff. So again, please check out Tony's book, Every Other Weekend,

56:51

Coming of Age with Two Different Dads. And it is a really, really good book,

56:56

very descriptive. I mean, I can't really get the interview.

57:00

There's so much in there that you're going to love. So many different angles.

57:03

And Tony, you are a delight times 30.

57:07

Well, thank you. Thank you. It's been a delight talking with you, Grace.

57:11

It's been lots of fun. Yeah, I loved it. And Ben, it's over.

57:17

It's over. Okay. Thanks, Tony. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Take care.

57:24

Thank you. Take care now. Bye-bye. Bye.

57:28

Music.