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and code TRUESTORY. Cheryl,

1:06

hey. Hey, hey. Listen,

1:09

this is a really extraordinary

1:11

documentary. Yeah, it's great. And

1:14

I think we should tell everybody that we have this amazing

1:17

merchandise now. It's great.

1:19

Great merch for the holidays. You guys, it's really

1:21

funny. It's cute. What do we have?

1:25

Are you a snorkel? You bet your sweet ass I am. You can

1:27

go to podswag.com slash

1:29

true story and

1:31

get some merch. Do it. podswag.com

1:34

slash true story. Okay, let's

1:37

get right to it. Let's get right to it. Yeah. Ladies

1:40

and jerks, welcome to all the beauty and the bloodshed.

1:43

It all started when Tig and Cheryl met

1:45

in the mid 2000s. Hey, nice

1:47

to meet you, Tig. I'm Cheryl Hines. Hi,

1:50

Cheryl. I'm Tig Notaro. Should

1:52

we do a podcast about documentaries? Yes.

1:55

A podcast about documentaries? Is

1:57

this microphone on? Five Furious Frogs that only...

3:59

But as as things unfold,

4:02

I'll share with all the snirk bowls. But

4:05

one day at a time, Jesus, one

4:07

day at a time.

4:08

Yes, yes, yes, sweet Jesus. Ah,

4:11

sweet Jesus. OK, well. And

4:14

I want to apologize ahead of time

4:16

to our listeners, because this is

4:18

such

4:19

a heavy, heavy, heavy.

4:23

And there's 10 million people in my cousin's

4:25

house right now. So I'm so sorry if there's

4:28

some weird interruption

4:31

that doesn't fit the vibe of the show. Yes,

4:33

it's not a reflection on

4:36

the subject matter that we're

4:38

talking about. No, it's a reflection

4:40

on my family.

4:43

It once again, it's a comedy

4:45

podcast. And sometimes we get

4:47

these very serious documentaries

4:49

and it's like, whoa, trying to just strike a balance.

4:52

Exactly. Well, I

4:54

like that my voice already cracked.

4:58

Yeah. I mean, is there anything that we need to

5:00

discuss before we get into it? Well,

5:04

I guess we should mention what it is. All

5:06

right. Well, OK.

5:09

Today we are talking about

5:11

all the beauty and the bloodshed. It's

5:13

a 2022 film directed by Laura

5:16

Poitras.

5:16

It follows a

5:18

life and career of renowned photographer

5:21

Nan Golden, as well as her

5:23

public battle with the Sackler family,

5:26

makers of the drug OxyContin.

5:28

Is it OxyContin or OxyContin?

5:32

I don't know. Have you ever

5:34

taken that medication? I'm sure

5:36

I have, but I don't.

5:39

It didn't like strike me as I

5:41

don't know. It wasn't something that I was

5:43

like, whoa, I love this or I hate this.

5:45

So I don't even remember taking it. But anyway,

5:48

all the beauty and the bloodshed premiered at

5:50

the Venice Film Festival. And was

5:52

nominated for an Oscar for

5:54

Best Documentary. It's available to watch on

5:57

HBO Max. Oh,

6:00

whoa. OK. Yeah.

6:03

I was just going to say, I know we're not. This

6:05

show is not. We don't review documentaries.

6:07

We just talk. Right. And

6:10

chat about the documentaries, sometimes

6:12

not even about the documentaries. But I

6:15

will say, I've really

6:18

liked this documentary. Oh,

6:20

interesting.

6:22

OK. You did not. I

6:24

listen. Once again,

6:26

we're not here to review it. Well,

6:29

we'll talk about it all, but it really covers

6:31

a lot of themes. Yeah, it

6:33

does. There's a lot going on. There's a lot

6:36

going on. And for my taste,

6:40

I'm more of a like, I like to

6:42

focus on one thing. But that's

6:44

just me. But yeah,

6:46

of course, it was very well done. And I

6:49

like that I was surprised that it was nominated for

6:51

an Oscar. I guess I should have read this before

6:54

we started. But that

6:56

makes sense. Yeah. OK,

6:58

well, this film is about photographer

7:01

Nan Golden, who grew up in a

7:03

claustrophobic suburb.

7:05

Her parents bought a lot, and Nan's

7:07

sister Barbara was rebellious. Barbara

7:10

had feelings for girls, but

7:13

was made to fear her

7:15

sexuality. She was sent

7:17

away to institutions and eventually died

7:20

of suicide. Nan's mom didn't

7:22

want Nan to know the truth.

7:24

So I mean,

7:28

that's where we start with this documentary.

7:31

Yeah. So it didn't. And it's just

7:33

it's Nan's journey of her childhood,

7:36

what

7:40

that meant to her, her sister,

7:42

her parents, her sexuality,

7:45

how that

7:48

shaped her and her career as a

7:50

photographer.

7:51

Should we hear from Nan just to get an

7:53

idea of who she is?

7:56

OK. I think that's a good idea. OK, so

7:58

let's just. She's a really.

9:38

under

10:00

seven running around this house. Oh

10:04

my God. Anyway, just screaming.

10:07

But go ahead. At

10:09

some point Nan, she wrote an essay

10:10

about how she

10:13

became addicted to Oxycontin that

10:15

she had been prescribed for

10:18

surgery. And when she got out of treatment,

10:21

she learned that the Sackler family was responsible.

10:24

So this family that made Oxycontin,

10:27

did you see the, did you see, oh

10:30

gosh, what was the Michael Keaton film? No,

10:33

no, I didn't. And

10:37

here comes a braggadocious alert, but. I can't

10:39

wait. My friend created

10:41

that show. Braggadocious

10:43

alert.

10:44

Dopesick. Dopesick. Yeah,

10:48

his name is Danny Strong. And

10:50

he was like a character actor,

10:53

I think from Buffy, the vampire slayer.

10:56

Okay. And he

10:59

became this writer and he just

11:01

blew up. It's insane

11:04

to see the amount of

11:06

shows that he created and movies that

11:08

he's done that are huge. But anyway. Well,

11:10

that one was really, that was really good. And it was about,

11:12

it was all about Oxycontin and how

11:15

it came on the scene.

11:17

And just sidebar, total sidebar,

11:20

also braggadocious alert. I

11:23

played Michael Keaton's love

11:25

interest in Herbie Fully Loaded.

11:28

Braggadocious alert.

11:32

I just wanted to let everyone

11:35

know that because it makes. Well,

11:38

you're always trying to wedge in

11:41

any information about Herbie Fully Loaded.

11:43

And also, who else

11:46

was in Herbie Fully Loaded? Oh, oh,

11:49

oh. Give it to us.

11:51

I know, the redheaded.

11:53

Lindsay Lohan. Thank you, Lindsay

11:56

Lohan. Okay. The

11:58

redheaded. The redheaded. The

12:00

red headed. The red

12:02

headed. Well,

12:07

I couldn't get listen at least at

12:10

least I had that. OK, a few years

12:12

down the road. Are you going to say remember I did

12:14

that podcast? What with the

12:16

brown hair? Yeah, it's quite

12:19

possible. Lesbo

12:21

brown hair, Lesbo. That's

12:24

quite possible.

12:25

OK,

12:27

listen back to serious matters.

12:30

Very serious matter. OK, so

12:32

in this documentary we see Nan leading

12:35

a protest at the Sackler Wing

12:37

of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. So

12:39

the Sackler family had

12:43

all of this amazing art. They have clearly

12:46

lots and lots of money and

12:48

they really appreciate

12:51

art and they donated

12:53

a lot of art to different museums. And

12:56

so they have a whole wing at the Metropolitan

12:58

Museum of Art. Has one does? As

13:01

as one does. So Nan organized

13:04

a.

13:07

Die in DIE. It

13:10

was almost like performance art,

13:12

wasn't it? When you're watching it

13:14

fully. Yeah, it was really compelling.

13:17

Yeah. So they all a bunch of people

13:20

went to the Sackler Wing

13:22

and they had made these pill

13:24

bottles, like a prescription

13:27

bottles. And

13:29

all at the same time, they

13:32

threw these prescription bottles

13:34

into like the fountain there

13:38

and everybody

13:40

stopped in their tracks and didn't

13:42

know what was going on. And then, you know,

13:45

as the the security guards started

13:48

to move in, the Nan and

13:50

some of the protesters

13:52

just lay down on the ground

13:55

as a die in. And

13:57

they were protesting. the

14:00

Sackler family and their main

14:03

mission was to say

14:05

to the world, to the museum, the

14:08

Sacklers are the ones that

14:10

started this whole country on this

14:12

oxycodone, oxycontin

14:15

addiction. Addiction.

14:18

Yeah. With little

14:21

regard for people. They

14:24

just really wanted to sell it. They wanted to get people

14:26

addicted, which they did. And

14:28

they seemingly, but

14:30

it certainly seems like truth,

14:33

you know, this is all true, that they

14:36

knew people were being addicted,

14:38

getting addicted, and they were telling doctors

14:41

and people, no, it's not addictive.

14:44

And people

14:45

were addicted. Yeah. So

14:48

Nance started an organization. Pain.

14:50

A-N-P-A-I-N,

14:53

prescription addiction intervention now.

14:56

And they really wanted to take down the Sacklers.

15:00

And at this point, Anne

15:02

was a very well-established

15:04

artist and her art is

15:06

photography. Yeah. So

15:09

she had a decision to make at that

15:11

point in her life and her career, am

15:13

I going to do this in a very

15:16

big public way, even at these

15:18

museums, knowing

15:20

that it could tank

15:21

her career? And

15:25

she said, yeah, she wanted to do that. The

15:29

Sacklers started

15:31

with three brothers, Arthur,

15:33

Mortimer, and Raymond.

15:35

And Arthur was an art collector who made his fortune

15:38

through the marketing of Valium.

15:41

That was also crazy. Yeah. And

15:43

that's the ones that started that created Valium.

15:46

These people, man.

15:48

And... Okay.

15:49

Cheryl. Yes. What?

15:53

Oh, finish what you're going to say, but... No, you finish what you're going to say.

15:55

Well, we have to take a break. Oh, for balls' sake.

15:58

Okay.

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We are back on Tig and Cheryl's

17:36

True Story. All the beauty

17:38

in the bloodshed.

17:41

We left off where they were doing

17:43

the dye in and now

17:46

Nan and pain, P-A-I-N.

17:50

They're really causing a spectacle

17:52

and now people are noticing. This journalist

17:54

Patrick Braden Keith

17:57

investigated the packers for The New Yorker.

18:00

And he received dozens of legal notices

18:02

from the family. And after Patrick's

18:04

article came out, Nan asked to meet with

18:07

him.

18:07

Nan is building this

18:10

movement, really. I felt

18:12

so inspired, I have to say. Did you feel

18:15

that way, or were you like, this is

18:17

not my thing? I felt

18:20

like uneasy. It's

18:23

so not my world. It's

18:26

not my world, either. Yeah. But

18:29

even just the idea of organizing

18:31

people to do

18:33

something at the same time for

18:36

the purpose of being noticed

18:38

and sometimes arrested,

18:41

that just makes my heart, even

18:45

though I'm around things like that a lot, it still

18:48

is like, whoo, I'm

18:50

not that person.

18:51

I'm not that person. Yeah.

18:54

And it's that situation,

18:56

though, where when you are pushed to

18:58

the edge and you've experienced

19:01

near death or you have

19:03

this anger about

19:06

being wronged

19:08

and then you see this side of yourself.

19:11

And I'm not saying, I have no idea. I mean, maybe

19:13

this wasn't

19:14

a leap for her. But you see people

19:17

do these things that are so

19:20

extraordinary and you don't

19:22

know where you're going to land on the other side.

19:24

And it's like,

19:26

oh my gosh, this

19:28

is what it takes to make change

19:31

and to be heard. And

19:33

it's so brave. And

19:37

it's so necessary to release

19:40

this anger within yourself and

19:43

to

19:44

reclaim yourself and to

19:46

save others. And it's just

19:48

so like, whoa, I was watching

19:50

it thinking,

19:52

what can I do? What do I need to do?

19:54

Where in my life can I be

19:57

helpful? And who knows if

19:59

I'll do anything.

21:46

parents

22:00

were very, tell me if I'm

22:02

right and tell me if this is what you saw. They

22:05

were in the suburbs and

22:07

wanted to be project

22:10

a certain image.

22:11

So when their daughter, Barbara,

22:17

was rebellious and

22:20

not acting the way

22:22

they thought she should act, we

22:25

won't say what happened to her yet because

22:27

we're not going to skip ahead. Didn't

22:29

you already say what happened to Barbara?

22:32

Well, yeah, but I mean...

22:34

Cheryl, for someone who likes linear

22:38

storylines. Well, because

22:41

didn't it come out that her parents

22:44

placed Barbara in an orphanage?

22:48

Yeah. And it seemed like

22:50

Barbara was, you know, when

22:52

she hit puberty, that's when

22:55

she was

22:55

having lesbian

22:58

tendencies. So the parents,

23:02

especially the mother, couldn't

23:04

handle it. And so they... Well, I

23:06

think they saw it as mental illness, right?

23:09

Yes, that's right. It's so sad

23:11

and

23:12

hard to imagine

23:14

that happening. Yeah. Because

23:16

it's so far removed from my

23:19

experience of the world, but that's why this

23:22

documentary is powerful

23:24

and important because you see that people

23:27

just don't have the capacity

23:30

to figure out how to love

23:33

their children sometimes. That's

23:37

a very difficult idea

23:40

to accept. It is.

23:42

It's like,

23:44

obviously, it was a different time and

23:48

people kept things so under

23:51

wraps and there was so much shame and there

23:53

wasn't conversation around.

23:56

I mean, obviously, that still happens. Right.

23:59

And, you know, where people shun

24:01

their children and don't understand whether

24:04

they're gay or trans or you know whatever

24:07

it is that's going on but

24:09

it's it's certainly I mean

24:12

we're leaps and bounds beyond

24:14

that in ways. Right I mean probably

24:16

because people can communicate with

24:19

each other via social

24:21

media so back

24:23

in the day well no

24:25

yeah I mean I was gonna say and other

24:28

things we can't give social

24:30

media all the credit. No I don't want to give social

24:32

media all the credit by any means or

24:34

not and not even social media but even

24:37

you know online you can at least

24:40

look things up and see oh there are other

24:42

people like me. Well yeah and

24:44

there's TV shows and movies and

24:46

books and and so many

24:49

things and that's why it's

24:51

imperative that there's

24:55

visibility for people. Yeah I don't

24:57

know I think about myself not

24:59

ever really seeing anything and

25:02

and it does make

25:04

you feel oh when you were growing up

25:06

like yeah yeah I think I

25:08

always say the closest I ever saw

25:11

was remember the character

25:14

Jo on facts of life I was

25:17

like oh oh I'm like and

25:20

nobody ever said that she was gay and

25:22

she's not gay in real life but I was truly

25:24

like oh

25:25

that's me or

25:28

that that'd be my friend yeah

25:30

or you know whereas other shows

25:33

I was like I don't know I don't

25:35

I don't see myself in myself so

25:37

I'll just be over here watching Samford

25:39

and Sun and uh yeah

25:43

just enjoying the show but not really

25:45

you know uh yeah connecting

25:48

with it in a way right right how

25:50

about Peppermint Patty she was always kind

25:52

of

25:52

I always liked her oh yeah

25:55

no Peppermint Patty for sure and I

25:57

don't know if I mentioned this on the show but I played

25:59

Peppermint

25:59

Yeah,

26:05

in the school play when I was in fourth grade.

26:07

Okay. And the way I was so excited

26:10

to get the part, but then the weird

26:12

twist. Yeah. Was that I had to

26:14

wear a dress. Yeah, that's

26:17

that is a weird,

26:18

but I guess did Peppermint Patty wear

26:20

a dress? No, I felt like Peppermint Patty

26:22

wore some like kind of long shirt and shorts

26:25

and sandals. Oh, Thomas,

26:27

can we get a confirmation on peppermint? Oh,

26:30

so that was that's, you know, that's

26:32

not okay.

26:33

Yeah, totally lame.

26:36

And I felt so uncomfortable.

26:39

I was like, you're like, I'm way too

26:41

way to ruin this part. Oh,

26:43

yeah.

26:44

So Thomas is showing

26:46

us picture of Peppermint Patty and she's got kind

26:49

of like Birkenstock type of shoes.

26:51

Yeah. And a big oversized shirt.

26:54

And yeah, trust me, I know. You

26:56

know. Yeah. And

26:58

somehow I was put in a dress

27:01

and I think tennis shoes.

27:03

Yeah, that's not okay. No, it

27:05

was not only not okay. A hate crime

27:07

is what I would like to say. Well,

27:10

that's really taking it to a 10. Okay.

27:14

So at 15, Nan

27:16

was very shy. Then she met a

27:19

guy named David.

27:21

This was also a time in the in

27:23

the documentary when I had to stop it and re

27:26

rewind it. Is that a thing? That

27:30

hasn't been a thing in two decades.

27:36

That they were stealing steaks together.

27:39

And I was like, maybe

27:41

I heard that wrong. Because is that a thing?

27:44

How do you steal steaks? And

27:46

what also I was confused about was,

27:49

did they go into the grocery store together to steal

27:51

steaks or they both reach for a steak

27:54

at the same time and then caught each other's

27:56

eyes and said, whoa,

27:58

you're my. type

28:00

of person. Yeah, that is confusing.

28:03

It was confusing

28:05

to me. Did that make sense to you or

28:07

you didn't? No, I didn't rewind. It

28:09

didn't make sense, but I also just

28:12

took it in in the moment where you're watching

28:14

something you go, what? And then you

28:16

just kind of watch the next scene. Yeah,

28:18

I had to stop it down and get to the bottom of

28:20

it. And I was like, yeah, they did say steaks,

28:23

like that you eat. Yeah.

28:26

Just a weird thing to do.

28:27

Like, why not steal

28:29

something that's already cooked or it

28:31

just seems a lot. What do you

28:33

do with the steak after you steal it? Anyway,

28:36

you cook it. Yeah, but why

28:38

do you need the stolen steak to be cooked?

28:41

Well, because if she's 15, I'm not even

28:43

sure where she was living at the time. It

28:45

just seems like a, that's another step.

28:48

That's another complicated. Yeah, I

28:51

don't, that's not what would trip me up.

28:53

It's clearly what baffled

28:55

you is how is a 15 year old

28:57

going to get a steak cooked? Yeah,

28:59

I was very concerned about that. Yeah,

29:02

I wouldn't worry about that. Okay. I'll move

29:04

on from it. Okay. And

29:06

so David, so they became good friends

29:08

and then David named her Nan

29:11

because

29:12

she was previously Nancy. And

29:15

then Nan started taking photos and

29:17

it really, here's, that

29:19

is what did confuse me. Okay.

29:22

There was some big point about him

29:25

naming her Nan when her name was Nancy.

29:28

That also, honestly,

29:32

I had to stop it again because I was like,

29:35

am I, did I

29:38

miss

29:38

something? And then I thought, I don't

29:41

know. I got a little confused. Like,

29:44

yeah, that confused me more.

29:46

Why was that such a big deal that

29:48

he named her Nan? Well,

29:51

that he just dropped

29:53

the second half of her name. Yeah.

29:55

He dropped C and then she was like,

29:57

no, somebody finally sees me for

29:59

who. I am. I was like, Oh,

30:01

yeah, this, this feels right.

30:05

This feels right. So

30:07

at some point, she moved in with

30:09

David and a drag queen and

30:12

they went to Goodwill and they attended

30:14

drag balls. If you

30:16

will. Wait, what? This

30:19

is what my outline says. Drag balls. Like

30:21

drag. Well,

30:28

if it's in the outline, you

30:30

can kind of can't your eyes glance

30:33

ahead and see that you're about to say drag balls.

30:35

Well, no.

30:37

And I was still stuck on Goodwill. They

30:40

went to Goodwill. They went to

30:42

Goodwill. Goodwill.

30:46

Do you put the emphasis on good or will?

30:49

Goodwill. I think on will. Why?

30:52

How do you say it? Goodwill.

30:55

Oh, you even it out. You say Goodwill. I

30:59

do. Drag

31:01

balls, drag balls. Drag

31:03

balls. Drag. Drag balls.

31:06

And they went to drag balls. Anyway. And

31:10

so this is what we were talking

31:12

about with Nan taking

31:14

photographs, that Nan would take photographs

31:17

of the drag queens and then they would

31:19

kind of compete with each other to see

31:22

who got their picture taken more

31:24

often. And with that,

31:26

we do need to take a quick break

31:29

and we will be back. And

31:31

listeners, do not worry. We will be back

31:34

on Taking Cheryl True Story. Your story.

31:37

Story.

31:49

And we are back on Taking Cheryl True Story.

31:52

Okay, I'm gonna barrel through.

31:55

Yeah. Your dragon

31:57

balls. We're at the drag balls. So.

31:59

They went to Provincetown a lot

32:02

which is in Cape Cod and

32:06

that was exciting and worked

32:08

This was also a moment where I had

32:10

to stop it. Okay

32:12

Once again, I

32:14

get bogged down with the details because she

32:16

said she worked at a Portuguese hot dog

32:18

stand You

32:21

do get bogged down with detail What

32:24

is a Portuguese hot dog stand is

32:26

that something different than a

32:29

an American hot dog stand I

32:32

don't know. I mean I rarely Freak

32:35

I don't frequent hot dog stands Whether

32:39

it why yeah, whether it's American

32:42

Portuguese I

32:46

Was just like why is that a detail that

32:49

we should be paying attention to and

32:50

then you realize oh I

32:53

Don't think it is. Well, maybe

32:55

you could write in to the director or you could

32:57

contact NAN and Ask

33:00

why did we need the information on the

33:02

Portuguese hot dog stand? Okay,

33:05

and then now we go back sort of to

33:07

the present day Mm-hmm

33:09

protests are happening and are

33:11

held at the Sackler Museum in

33:14

Harvard at the Guggenheim Where

33:17

NAN is a part of the permanent collection? Mm-hmm

33:19

So the Sacklers

33:23

are now on trial a document

33:26

is released showing Richard Sackler Bragged

33:29

that the country would be under a

33:31

blizzard of prescriptions.

33:33

It's really it's sickening It

33:36

is like how is that? And

33:40

I don't even understand like it

33:42

like

33:43

What do you what are you thinking about

33:46

for? Like do you care nothing

33:48

about people the future

33:51

the well-being of of

33:54

Anything anything

33:56

other than yourself? I don't I really don't

33:58

understand and just money just greed.

34:02

It's so only thing they cared

34:04

about. And that inspired a

34:06

protest at the Guggenheim where

34:09

protests unleash a

34:11

lizard. A lizard? Oh

34:13

boy. Please Nan, I hope you're not listening.

34:17

A literal blizzard.

34:21

They released a lizard. I

34:25

wish these two words weren't together. Protesters

34:28

released a lizard. They

34:31

unleashed a literal, a

34:33

literal. Oh, they

34:35

unleashed the lizard. They

34:39

unleashed a blizzard of prescriptions.

34:42

But it says a literal blizzard.

34:46

I can't say it. So that was another thing

34:48

too. That was really so

34:50

amazing to watch in the film. So you

34:53

have all these protesters inside

34:55

the museum and

34:58

all at once they start raining

35:01

down. So many tears, the tears

35:03

and tears of, of staircases,

35:05

right? Yes. And so these, um,

35:08

prescriptions just started, yeah,

35:10

tears is good too, but

35:12

T I E R S

35:15

and they start raining down and now people

35:17

are once again stopped in their tracks

35:20

and they're seeing what's going on. And

35:22

it was a big moment, you

35:24

know, and it really raised awareness

35:27

and people

35:28

were understanding what, what

35:31

was going on and who the Sacklers were

35:33

and what they were doing. Oh gosh.

35:36

Do we need to mention the blow drum?

35:39

I couldn't hear you. Okay.

35:43

Well, I'll just say that at one point

35:47

she named,

35:51

she met this man,

35:53

this curator named Marvin

35:56

Heiferman and, why

36:00

this is, but it is part of the story. Anyway,

36:02

she had a big crate of photographs

36:05

that she had to bring up the building

36:07

in New York. And

36:09

so

36:10

in order to get the cab driver to help

36:12

bringing up the photos,

36:17

she

36:21

performed oral sex and

36:25

he helped her. Anyway, that's

36:27

just color for the story. Doesn't matter. It doesn't

36:31

matter. Then at

36:34

some point Nan talks about being

36:36

a sex worker.

36:38

Did that confuse you? Because

36:40

at that point in time when I was watching the

36:44

documentary, I was like, oh, okay, I get it. She

36:46

was a photographer. She became

36:49

an artist. People recognized

36:51

her as an artist. And then it goes back

36:54

to at some point she was a sex worker.

36:57

Mm-hmm. Yeah,

36:59

I guess that must have confused

37:01

me because I don't even remember that. I

37:06

watched this documentary. Is it

37:08

possible a week and a half ago? That's

37:11

possible. Yeah. So probably

37:14

it's been busy and traveling. There's

37:17

a lot of details in this and it's not

37:19

a short documentary by any means. And

37:21

it's packed with one serious

37:24

issue after another. So I

37:26

felt like, wow, okay, being a sex worker is

37:29

now another very serious

37:31

issue that we're tackling.

37:35

Yeah, I don't know how I missed

37:38

that. No, because it was sort of brought

37:40

up and then moved on to

37:42

the next thing. Well,

37:43

it would make sense why somebody

37:46

could

37:47

casually dole out

37:50

blow jobs. Right. I think

37:53

you're right. I don't

37:55

make that connection because, but you know

37:57

what reminded me of remember? Fire,

38:00

what was the fire? The fire festival?

38:04

Remember? And the one guy. Oh, yeah. He

38:06

was like, I guess I'll have to do this. Yeah.

38:10

To get water on the island. So

38:15

are you that casual

38:18

about that? No, not not

38:21

in the least. I

38:24

like saying you had to get water on

38:26

an island. That would be

38:28

so far down the list. I can't

38:31

even I. But if you had

38:33

to get water on the island

38:36

and that was the way. Come on. Would

38:40

you? No. You

38:42

would just drink your own urine. You can do

38:44

that for like which I already do. I

38:46

bet I don't even have to be. You

38:50

just do it. It's me.

38:52

It's my drink of choice is my own urine.

38:56

Oh, good morning, listeners. OK, now

38:59

Nan does a slideshow

39:02

called Ballads of Sexual Dependency.

39:05

Hmm. And her father and Brian,

39:08

she had an affair with a man named

39:10

Brian.

39:11

Yeah. And they both she seemed to Brian.

39:14

She was very into Brian. And

39:17

then that and then it went south.

39:20

Yeah. Brian and her father tried

39:23

to stop the book from being published. I don't think

39:25

they were doing it together necessarily,

39:28

but each in a way. So

39:30

now we're back to present day.

39:33

Nan was

39:34

set to do a career retrospective

39:37

with the National Portrait Gallery in the UK.

39:40

The museum was in the process of accepting

39:42

a one point three million

39:45

dollar grant from the Sacklers.

39:47

So Nan threatened to withdraw

39:49

her art. This was a huge

39:52

moment. Yeah. The

39:54

gallery dropped the Sacklers donation.

39:57

I mean, that was amazing. That's that's.

40:00

It's like, yeah, it is so incredible.

40:03

And it's so cliche, but when

40:05

people think, oh,

40:07

as one person, I can't do anything. And

40:09

obviously she rounded up

40:12

a whole bunch of people that

40:15

saw and executed her

40:17

vision, but

40:18

she started it. Right.

40:21

And she did it. And it's like, oh

40:24

my gosh, that's

40:26

massive. Yes. And

40:28

when you're going up against people that

40:30

are like,

40:31

this could take you down, this

40:34

could ruin you. You cannot go

40:37

head to head with this. And then you do it.

40:39

Yeah, it was amazing. And then

40:42

the Tate, Guggenheim, the

40:44

Smithsonian, and other museums

40:47

dropped their Sackler

40:49

donations. They just

40:52

said, we're not taking them anymore. Hard pass,

40:54

no thank you. Pretty amazing. And then

40:57

Payne, P-A-I-N, was

41:00

focused on getting institutions to drop

41:02

the Sackler name from their buildings because

41:04

these museums had the

41:06

Sackler name on them. Because the Sacklers

41:09

had donated so much money, had donated so

41:11

much art. Nan testified to

41:13

legislators and she

41:16

was arrested at

41:17

a street protest. Then

41:19

in 1989, see now we're kind of, see

41:23

we're going back in time again. Cheryl, just

41:25

deal with it. That's how this movie is. That's

41:28

how it is. Yeah, Nan put

41:30

on a show about the AIDS crisis. So

41:32

here's another huge

41:33

serious subject

41:36

that,

41:36

you know, deserves a documentary

41:39

of its own. So it was just

41:41

a lot to take in. And she put on a,

41:44

it featured a multitude of artists

41:47

and Nan called painter

41:50

David, oh no.

41:51

Go on. Watched now.

41:54

Give it a try. Watch.

41:57

You can do it. Woachnerwitz. Sure.

42:01

Okay. And ask them to write

42:03

an essay for the catalog. And

42:05

because of David's essay, the director of the gallery reached

42:07

out to the National Endowment of the Arts

42:09

with her concerns. They withdrew their grant

42:12

for the show. You know, it's crazy

42:14

to just think about, obviously

42:17

there's still such a huge opioid

42:20

crisis. Epidemic. Yeah, crisis,

42:23

whatever you want to call it. But to think

42:25

of possibly

42:28

how many lives that

42:31

she has saved. Yeah. Yeah.

42:34

It is really...

42:36

Yeah, it's extraordinary because

42:39

I think most people,

42:41

well, especially years ago, right?

42:44

Two decades ago, didn't understand

42:46

the...

42:48

Actually the Sackler family is telling

42:51

everybody that Oxycontin is

42:53

not addictive.

42:54

Yeah.

42:55

People believed it. So

42:58

of course, you know, your

43:00

loved one is having surgery and you help

43:03

them get through the pain by giving them what

43:05

the doctor prescribed. And

43:07

it was just years, decades

43:10

of that. And then in present

43:13

day, Nan speaks at

43:15

the Louvre in Paris and

43:17

the museum becomes the first to take down the

43:19

Sackler name.

43:20

And that was a very big deal. So

43:22

at one point, Purdue, the

43:25

name of the company that the Sacklers owned,

43:29

filed for bankruptcy to

43:31

avoid 3000 lawsuits. But

43:33

the Sacklers still have their money because

43:35

they started...

43:36

When all these lawsuits started coming

43:39

at them,

43:40

they started siphoning their money

43:42

out of Purdue, out of the company and

43:45

putting it into their

43:47

private accounts and figuring out where

43:49

to put their money. So when they went bankrupt,

43:52

the actual family still walked

43:55

away with all their money. The

43:57

Sacklers agreed to pay $6 billion. to

44:00

gain legal immunity from civil

44:02

charges. And the cost of the opioid

44:05

crisis is $1 trillion. That

44:08

is insane.

44:09

Nan sees her story as being about

44:11

conformity and denial,

44:13

as well as stigma.

44:15

So it was great because you did get

44:17

to see Nan talking to legislators.

44:20

And she was saying, I was addicted.

44:24

I understand this because that's been

44:26

my story as well. And

44:28

after four years, the Met finally removed

44:31

the Sackler name from seven

44:33

of its galleries.

44:35

Nan visits the museum

44:37

and gets a ton of hugs from fellow activists.

44:41

And the Sackler name has now been

44:43

removed from many,

44:46

many other institutions.

44:48

And so that is such a

44:50

huge accomplishment. And then simultaneously,

44:53

you're like, so wait, there's still places

44:55

with their name on there. I know.

44:57

How? I know.

44:58

How? I don't know. And

45:00

that's really

45:05

it in a nutshell. We did

45:07

a terrible job. We did a terrible

45:09

job of recapping. Yeah. That

45:12

was terrible. But it's

45:14

a fascinating documentary and it's powerful.

45:17

It's

45:20

so powerful. And Nan has done an extraordinary

45:23

job in her lifetime.

45:29

Oh, boy. Gee, are

45:31

you ready for some final thoughts? I

45:34

am. It's time for Happily Ever

45:36

After thoughts where we give our final thoughts on this

45:38

documentary.

45:42

Did you cry? I did.

45:45

I cried numerous times. Yeah,

45:47

numerous times. You did. I did.

45:51

Do

45:51

you remember when?

45:53

Yeah, when it was parents

45:55

talking about losing their children. Yes.

46:00

And I

46:02

just really got lost in those

46:05

moments of the

46:07

pain that,

46:11

yeah, I did. Yeah. It

46:13

was devastating

46:14

because it was like we were just talking about. You

46:16

have parents who

46:18

had no idea that giving

46:21

their children a pain medication

46:23

would get them addicted

46:25

to it. And then from

46:29

OxyContin, a lot of people then

46:31

become addicted to heroin.

46:34

And then now with so many

46:37

drugs being laced with fentanyl,

46:40

people are noticing all

46:42

of the time every day. And

46:44

it's just beyond tragic. No.

46:50

I was going to say, have

46:52

you lost

46:54

somebody to addiction

46:57

overdose?

46:58

Yes.

47:02

It's so tragic. And

47:05

a lot of times you see it's almost

47:08

like it's happening in slow motion because you can

47:10

see the decline of that person. And addiction

47:14

is so powerful. It's

47:16

so powerful. It's heart wrenching. Yeah.

47:22

I mean, do we need to talk about who we're attracted

47:24

to?

47:25

No, we'll skip that. We'll skip

47:27

it. And just in case this is

47:29

your first time to listen to the show, typically

47:31

we will talk about

47:35

who in the documentary we're attracted

47:37

to. And then there's some episodes

47:39

where we're just like, we can't even do

47:41

that nonsense. Did you cry? No. I

47:44

didn't because you were like,

47:46

well, no, because

47:48

when I said I cried numerous times, you

47:50

were like, you did. You did.

47:53

I'm surprised. Did you cry?

47:56

No. Okay. Well,

47:58

you cried as hands on a hard body. That's

48:02

the type of thing that really gets

48:04

me.

48:07

Tig, would you like to do any true

48:09

story talk back to anybody

48:11

or any member of the family? Yeah, I'd

48:13

like to just say right now

48:16

to the Sackler family,

48:19

take your own name off of everything

48:21

that it's on.

48:23

Take

48:24

your own name off.

48:27

Why does anyone have to fight

48:29

you to take your name off? How dare

48:31

you keep your name on? Yeah,

48:35

I second that. I mean, truly.

48:38

It's like... Have some

48:40

decency. Where do you

48:42

go from here, Sackler family?

48:45

What do you do next? People are watching.

48:48

It's despicable. It's despicable.

48:51

Oh my gosh. Okay. That's

48:54

all for this week's episode. Next week, we'll

48:56

be talking about losing sight of shore

48:58

on 2B. Okay,

49:01

Tig, should we do some true

49:03

fan mail to connect with the Mercos? Yeah, sure. Let's

49:05

do it. Yeah.

49:06

Okay. We got to shake that off for one

49:08

second.

49:13

This is from Dina. Hey,

49:16

Dina. No, it might be Dina.

49:19

Wait, how do you know if it's Dina or Dina? I

49:21

don't. Okay.

49:25

Hey guys, I know I'm a little

49:27

behind, but I'm just listening to Cheryl

49:29

talk about

49:30

unfairly losing a costume contest

49:33

and empathize deeply. I

49:36

was once in a costume contest at a boring

49:38

office job where I was very much the weirdo

49:40

in the office. That year I was dressed

49:43

impeccably. Oh

49:44

no. As sexy

49:47

Abraham Lincoln. There

49:51

were only about three of us in the

49:54

contest and I lost to a lady wearing

49:56

an inflatable sumo wrestler suit

49:58

she bought at Walmart.

51:59

Please let us know how you're

52:02

doing. You're sitting in a pick. Okay.

52:05

I mean, Aiden is very verbal and he pops up everywhere.

52:07

Meanwhile, Brandy. Brandy. Where

52:10

the hell did she go? Where's Brandy?

52:13

Whoa Tig. That was a lot today. Boy,

52:16

that was a lot.

52:18

We did it. It was a lot. It was a heavy, heavy

52:20

documentary. And also I'm recording

52:23

while I'm in Mississippi at my cousin's house

52:26

with 30 people, 10 of

52:28

them children

52:30

just running around screaming. So I can't

52:33

believe I got through this. Yeah. Tig,

52:35

is there anything that you want to plug? Get

52:38

your tickets now for Charlotte,

52:40

North Carolina, April 17th.

52:44

And also Red Bank,

52:46

New Jersey, April 20th,

52:48

Poughkeepsie, New York, April 21st, and

52:50

keep your eyes

52:53

and ears

52:54

healed. I will be releasing

52:57

the taping date for my next

52:59

standup special. I'd love

53:01

for you to come out. I'll also be in Vegas

53:04

on May 20th. Go to TigNotaro.com.

53:07

I have a bunch of dates where

53:09

you can get tickets and show information

53:11

online. Also check out Don't

53:13

Ask Tig, my other podcast. Cheryl, do

53:15

you have anything? No, I mean,

53:18

they know. Okay. Sorry to bother.

53:21

You know, if you don't know, then forget about it. But

53:23

I am going to keep my ears peeled.

53:25

Just like you said. Okay. All

53:27

right, Tig. Should we do it again? Yes.

53:31

Yes. Let's do it again. Tig

53:34

and Cheryl, True Story is hosted by me,

53:36

Cheryl Hines, and Tig Notaro.

53:39

It's produced by Thomas Wollett, audio

53:42

engineered and edited by Thomas

53:44

Wollett with production assistance

53:46

from Bobby Pearson. hosted

53:49

by David Sessin. Special thanks to Gabby

53:51

Kobasic, Patrick McDonald, and

53:53

Stephanie Allen. Follow us on

53:55

social media for updates and review

53:57

and rate True Story on Apple Pocket.

53:59

We really appreciate it. You

54:02

can email us at taken Cheryl True

54:04

Story at gmail.com.