0:00

Every night in my

0:02

dreams I actually don't know how

0:04

this song goes I see you,

0:06

I feel you Oh my god, I didn't

0:08

realize that's what you were singing That is how I know

0:11

you go on Far

0:15

across the distance and

0:18

spaces between

0:20

us Yeah, that's not how that goes You have come to

0:22

show you go on

0:27

Near, far,

0:30

wherever

0:33

you are I

0:35

believe that the

0:37

heart does go

0:41

on Once

0:45

more, you open

0:49

the door And you're

0:51

here in my heart

0:54

And my heart will

0:56

go on and

0:58

on Love

1:01

can touch us one time And

1:04

last for a lifetime

1:07

I'm not doing this Jeffree

1:21

Luxton You think he's

1:23

gonna show up? Jeff, Jeff,

1:25

Jeffree Luxton Come on, come

1:28

on Jeffree

1:31

Luxton Where

1:49

I belong

3:47

people

4:00

learn. Mad

4:06

people did not heard the word submersible

4:08

before. I

4:11

feel like this is one of those things

4:12

where you're like, yeah,

4:16

nobody knew about this before. You're

4:24

showing your white male privilege right now. Yes,

4:30

we like

4:33

to go down there, see what's going on. We're

4:35

kind of fine Atlantis. People

4:38

learned about submersibles, and I found out about a little ship called the

4:40

Titanic.

4:41

Okay,

4:44

let's cut to the chase. We

4:47

have to cover this. The episode that we're doing now.

4:52

I'm telling the audience this right now. I

4:55

want to get everything

4:55

out of the way here. There's

4:59

nothing else since

5:01

the sub first went down or was reported missing.

5:04

I have been able to think about practically

5:06

nothing else except for that submersible.

5:09

I knew what its fate was immediately, obviously.

5:12

Everybody who really thought about it did.

5:15

It consumed

5:18

me in much the same way as a Titanic consumes

5:21

some of these poor souls. Yeah,

5:22

it's a little eerie how much they mirror each other, which

5:25

I got to say James Cameron in an interview mentioned that, and I

5:27

was like, get out of here. No, he was rocking. It's

5:29

been annoying. I disagree. I don't need

5:31

to hear from this man. I think he's been down

5:33

there a lot. I don't need to hear from him. A lot of guys have.

5:36

The

5:36

Titanic's up. All right, so

5:40

we had a whole other episode

5:42

planned

5:43

that we were going to do. We even had some notes

5:45

and everything for it, but we

5:46

have to talk about it. That one's going into the lost

5:49

tapes. No one will ever find out

5:51

what happened. Forty-one lost tapes now,

5:53

true, not an episode. So

5:56

for everyone at home who

5:58

was in fact in a submersible.

7:54

The

8:00

Titanic. The big, the elephant

8:02

in the ocean. The motherfucking Titanic.

8:04

Now, Liz, you and I actually met on

8:06

the Titanic. You, at the time, I believe, were with your husband.

8:10

I was kind of like a roguish stowaway.

8:13

Um,

8:13

and I was, you know,

8:15

I honestly, I met a really beautiful

8:18

woman on that ship, had a great romance

8:20

with her, and I married Rich, and I came to New York on top

8:22

of my game. You, of course, were divorced

8:25

by your husband on the ship, which was one of

8:27

the first times it's ever happened in naval history.

8:29

And you kind of came here as a pauper,

8:31

and I rescued you. This is so mean.

8:33

Sort of put you in the workhouse kind of thing. Now, the

8:35

Titanic, right? It is, I mean, listen, everybody

8:37

knows when the motherfucking Titanic,

8:39

if you haven't seen the Titanic, the movie,

8:41

you're weird. I feel like

8:43

it's one of the most watched. You've seen it, right? Of course it is. I saw

8:45

it in the theaters. Yeah, me too. I know. Probably

8:48

one of the first sex scenes I actually ever saw.

8:49

Damn. I think me too, maybe. Yeah, it

8:52

was pretty, when it was a late bloomer. Yeah,

8:54

yeah. And it's the, I can fully

8:56

remember, of course, the hand against

8:58

sort of horror movie style, making a streak

9:01

against the window in the T-model 4 to wherever they were

9:03

fucking in.

9:03

Yeah, I remember my friend and I, we've been

9:05

in grade school or whenever we went and saw it, this

9:07

is such a classic Liz moment. We went

9:10

and we were like real like sarcastic,

9:12

like bratty kids, like, oh my God, this is gonna be so

9:15

stupid. This movie looks so cheesy. Oh my God, this is gonna

9:17

be so dumb. And then in the audience, like, you know, halfway

9:19

through,

9:19

just like fucking falling. Just totally,

9:22

I'm

9:22

flying, Jack. Hold on, hold on,

9:25

come on, Jack, come on. So

9:27

the Titanic, big ass motherfucking ship, very

9:29

fancy, sort of an affront to God,

9:32

you might call it, kind of like a middle finger to Jesus

9:34

Christ, Moses, you know,

9:36

Muhammad, kind of all of them up there.

9:39

And of course, because of that, because of its

9:41

insult to God, it

9:44

struck an iceberg. And

9:46

in the... Allegedly, possibly. Well, we'll

9:48

get to that, yeah. But in their hubris, these

9:50

people did not pack enough lifeboats

9:53

and about 1,500

9:56

people,

9:56

give or take about 100 died. horrible

10:00

ways, mostly I guess freezing in the

10:02

freezing cold Atlantic Ocean. Uh,

10:06

the, the wreck sank

10:08

down to the bottom of the ocean. Now to get

10:10

this out of the way, there are a number of

10:13

conspiracy theories surrounding the

10:15

sinking of the Atlanta Atlantis.

10:17

Jesus, I've got mermen on the

10:19

brain. Uh, the Titanic

10:22

and one of them, I really like

10:24

actually both of them. I really liked, but both of them are

10:26

very much unbelievable.

10:28

The first is that the Titanic

10:30

was actually switched out with a different

10:33

ship, uh, and sunk

10:35

as part of like an insurance

10:37

scheme,

10:39

which seems a little unworkable to me.

10:41

Yeah. But I liked that one because you know,

10:43

I hate the insurance company. You know, I like doing insurance

10:45

fraud. Just kidding. Do not use that

10:47

against me. If you're an insurance adjuster in like three years,

10:49

please. I really did break both of my

10:52

legs on your construction site while walking

10:54

through to prevent one of your workers from sexually harassing a

10:56

woman.

10:57

The other one is, is that the ship was sunk

10:59

on purpose

11:01

to eliminate opponents of the federal

11:03

reserve.

11:05

Wow. I didn't know that one. This is yes.

11:07

John Jacob Baster famously died on it. Is

11:10

it or Strauss and his old lady, you know,

11:12

the, who was, I think it was a co-owner of Macy's at the

11:14

time, not just the full owner, the co-owner, uh,

11:17

and Benjamin Guggenheim, they all died

11:19

on it. And apparently they

11:21

were opposed to the creation of the federal

11:23

reserve. And instead of ending the fed, the fed

11:25

ended them. I

11:27

really liked that because it seems way easier

11:30

to just shoot three guys,

11:31

uh, then sink a

11:34

giant ship. Especially on a boat. Yeah.

11:36

Yeah. You could easily listen. I've seen that novel

11:39

right there.

11:40

Exactly. You could kill somebody about

11:42

no problem. Just push them. Throw

11:45

you in sea jail. There's no laws out there.

11:47

Just shoot them, shoot them through,

11:48

throw the gun on overboard.

11:51

Anyways, that's the wiser big old wreck.

11:54

Blown up

11:56

by the United States government

11:58

to destroy the enemies of the federal reserve. or sunk to the bottom of

12:00

the ocean,

12:01

and it has been lying there ever since slowly

12:03

being eaten away. Yeah, it's in two parts,

12:06

which I think is very cool. It's in two parts

12:08

because the thing, it split in

12:10

half before it sank famously,

12:14

and in between it is

12:16

an area they call the debris field, which

12:19

is sort of the area where all these belongings and

12:21

typewriters and all of Jack's

12:23

paintings of rose are,

12:25

and obviously the beautiful

12:28

necklace. He painted in

12:30

that? Yeah. Oh, draw me like one of your

12:32

French girls. Yeah, of course. I don't

12:34

really remember bits and pieces of it. No, but the reason

12:36

why I said allegedly hit an iceberg is

12:38

because I was reading, I was up on the old

12:41

Titanic web

12:42

boards. Yeah, you

12:44

spent a lot of time on those. Yeah, shout out to Encyclopedia

12:47

Titanica, and the very robust

12:49

and passionate community. So many of our

12:52

male listeners found their wives. Sort of a dating

12:54

app for them. No, but there's theories that, and this actually

12:56

came about ever since they, they've

12:59

done some visits to the Titanic, which we'll talk about, that

13:02

there aren't actually, popular

13:04

narrative is that the Titanic's, the

13:06

captain, very,

13:07

with great hubris, scraped

13:12

up against the side of an iceberg,

13:14

and that's what did the ship in. Shoulder checked it. Yeah.

13:17

We're shoulder checked by the iceberg. And they say that those scrapes are not visible,

13:20

which I'm like, who

13:22

knows? But there's a lot of people, like

13:25

reputable people, not crazy people, that

13:27

have a theory that, I mean, it still hit an

13:29

iceberg, but it was on the bottom of the ship. And that's

13:31

what caused it. Okay,

13:32

it's scraped underneath. Scraped underneath, which

13:34

maybe not a big difference, but it would exonerate

13:37

the captain a bit. Well, he

13:39

did go down with the ship, which I do think is a

13:42

kind of cool thing that captains have to do. Kind

13:44

of bullshit. Because what if it's not your fault?

13:47

Like, what if you get torpedoed? It's like, well, I

13:49

couldn't really help that. You know what I mean? It's not

13:51

like I have armor on. I mean, you have armor plated

13:53

on the ship, but you know what I mean. Like, you should

13:55

be able to get off the ship, but that's neither

13:58

here nor there. It's at the bottom.

13:59

of the motherfucking ocean, right? And it

14:02

stayed there for a long time. I want to be, I just, I want to, yes, but

14:07

I want to be, I want to be very just

14:10

honest with our audience. I am freaked

14:12

out by the depths.

14:13

Of the ocean? Of the ocean. Fuck yes,

14:16

as you should be. They're scary to me, right?

14:18

It's very scary. It's much like space, but

14:20

the opposite.

14:20

The opposite. And there's nothing further,

14:23

because you can keep going in space and then you

14:25

hit like Betelgeuse or like Jupiter

14:28

or whatever. At the bottom, you

14:30

just hit the earth but lower. Well, many

14:32

don't know this, but actually if you get beyond

14:34

Pluto, there's actually just a wall. There's a wall,

14:37

yeah. There's the wall and you kind of clank up

14:39

against it. Yeah, but it's a big wall.

14:41

It is a big wall and it's tough to get there.

14:43

It's tough to get there. So at the bottom

14:45

of the, like, you know, it's just, there's a, it's a big space,

14:47

right? And so I think people might be a little

14:49

surprised to know that they actually didn't find the Titanic for

14:51

a long time. They actually did, they could not locate

14:54

the actual wreck of the Titanic at

14:56

the bottom of the ocean for quite a while.

14:59

Which is kind of crazy because it's a real big ship. It's a real big

15:01

ship. It was found by a guy named Robert

15:03

Ballard.

15:04

Now Ballard's kind of an interesting

15:06

cat. He was in the Navy, Naval Intelligence

15:09

actually, for I think something like 20 years. And

15:11

he, after he, I think he quits the

15:13

Navy and then he returns to them with an

15:15

offer. He's like, listen,

15:17

I need you guys to help me create

15:19

robotic submersibles

15:22

in order to find the Titanic.

15:25

So he says, the Navy says, okay,

15:27

yeah, we'll help you develop this technology,

15:30

but to look for submarine wrecks.

15:33

Now, Liz,

15:35

I'm gonna be, I

15:36

know a little bit about submarines.

15:38

Yeah, we know about your white male privilege.

15:41

Yes, well, yes, but

15:44

I used to, I have a personal connection to a submarine.

15:47

There was a submarine that was parked at

15:49

Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco.

15:51

Have you ever been there? Yeah, I remember that. It's next

15:53

to the Liberty ship. The big thing. Yes. I

15:56

used to buy Coke from a guy

15:58

who worked on it.

16:01

Like, wait, what did he do on this submarine?

16:04

Well, he wasn't like, he literally,

16:06

uh... Was he like a ticket taker for people? He

16:08

was the ticket taker at the little thing in front

16:10

of the submarine. But I know that he had pretty

16:12

much free rein to go in the submarine

16:15

and things like that. So he was kind of like, kind

16:17

of a... I mean, he worked on a submarine. Am I wrong?

16:19

I mean, he worked off the submarine, but he worked...

16:21

Next to it. ...on the project of getting people

16:24

on the submarine for tours. I think

16:26

that that's fair. So I'm kind of like, emotionally

16:29

invested in this stuff because of that. Sure. So

16:32

Ballard was tasked with finding these two Cold War

16:34

era submarine wrecks. And they actually kind of sandwich

16:38

the Titanic in where their supposed locations

16:40

were supposed to be. And where they actually ended up being, right?

16:43

Mm-hmm.

16:43

And the first of these is actually one I want to go

16:46

to in a little bit in detail, because

16:48

it has some similarities to our recent

16:51

Titan accident. This is the USS

16:53

Thresher.

16:54

That is a very cool name. Yes,

16:56

it is. Yeah. And it's a very... It's sort of a famous submarine

16:58

wreck. This is one of those ones that before we started this episode, I

17:00

was like, oh, I know what that is. That

17:03

one and the Kursk, I was familiar with the stories of. Because

17:05

they're both pretty horrific stories. The Kursk goes crazy.

17:08

The Kursk was fucked.

17:08

And ugly as hell. You

17:11

thought it was a disgusting sub? I don't like it. You don't like

17:13

it? I don't like it. Interesting.

17:15

Okay. You like the way... Okay. I'm

17:18

just going to say, it doesn't have the elegance

17:20

of Red October. It does not have the elegance of a

17:22

Red October. So, all right. The

17:24

USS Thresher was a nuclear

17:27

attack submarine commissioned in 61.

17:29

Pretty, you know, we're talking Cold War, Cold

17:32

War here. And it was still being tested. And

17:34

it was on deep diving tests alongside

17:36

a Navy submarine rescue ship

17:39

in pretty deep water

17:40

several hundred miles east of Cape Cod.

17:43

So that day, the sub-rescue

17:45

ship, like the day that it was lost, the sub-rescue

17:48

ship hadn't actually seen the Thresher, but

17:50

had communicated with it via radio.

17:53

And it would basically, like, via... It's like the sonar thing. The

17:56

way that subs communicate to ships,

17:58

at least back then, was...

17:59

and still, I guess, is sort

18:02

of too strange for me to understand, but it involves

18:04

sonar. There were indications

18:06

that there were problems leveling out the sub,

18:08

and then communications between the submarine

18:11

and the sub-restri ship kind of become garbled.

18:13

There were two really mingled messages that

18:15

came from the submarine, like only

18:18

a couple words were legible,

18:20

one of which maybe said that the Thresher had exceeded

18:23

test depth. Then they heard

18:25

what sounded like ballast tanks blowing,

18:27

and then one high-pitched noise,

18:29

which everyone can guess what that is.

18:31

So they think that it

18:33

went too

18:33

deep. Yes. So basically,

18:36

they never really, this was actually part of the reason that

18:39

Ballard was sent to find these two wrecks,

18:42

is because they actually still don't really

18:44

know what caused these problems. Because

18:46

what happened with the Thresher, right, is

18:49

it's descending, normal, normal, normal, and

18:51

then the captain of the Thresher

18:53

radios up, and he's like, we got a problem, and

18:55

he's blowing ballast tanks. And so that

18:57

is basically a way to shoot

19:00

yourself up to the surface, right? And

19:02

you're not really supposed to

19:03

do that that far down. Just like with the Titan,

19:06

you actually control it with propulsion, right?

19:08

So you can basically adjust depth

19:10

from there. Ballast tanks will

19:13

shoot you up to the surface.

19:14

Crazy, like, poof, poof. And

19:16

so they wouldn't have done that that far down unless

19:18

there was a pretty big fucking emergency,

19:21

right?

19:22

Unfortunately, what happened is they ended

19:24

up just sinking much faster. So sort of the

19:27

opposite of what you would want to happen.

19:29

So they blow the ballast tanks, and they actually are just like

19:31

shooting downwards really quickly. Yeah,

19:34

you really don't want that. Maybe they were upside down and they didn't

19:36

realize. Well, I think it was just like the sub was

19:38

like uneven, like it was like the nose going up,

19:41

and then yeah, it was just kind of walking

19:43

around. So the crazy thing is, is

19:45

what the people experiencing on board must

19:47

have been

19:48

insane,

19:49

right? I mean, we don't know, I mean, there

19:51

was, there's been several like

19:54

theories put forth as to why this happened. One

19:56

of them is that there was, you know, this one

19:59

line was loose.

19:59

and it basically started flooding and you

20:02

try shooting water in there really quickly.

20:04

There's now some indications that it might

20:07

have been something else that caused it.

20:09

Nevertheless there was probably flooding of some kind.

20:12

And with that, electronic systems

20:14

going off, probably fire starting. And

20:17

at the same time, they're descending really

20:19

quickly. And imagine you're a submariner,

20:21

a submariner in here, and there's

20:24

all of a sudden you're very far down in

20:26

the ocean, like 800 feet down there. There's

20:28

water shooting in the sub. And

20:31

all that you can hear is the outside

20:33

of the submarine. It's just the metal is groaning

20:35

under the pressure. The pipes in the submarine

20:37

are groaning under the pressure. So there's this horrible

20:40

banshee-like streaking noises

20:42

that are coming from all around you, like you're living

20:45

inside of a banshee's throat. It's

20:49

this horrible noise of hell that's

20:51

all around you. Meanwhile the pressure

20:53

in the submarine is rising rapidly

20:55

because you're descending really, really quickly.

20:58

Much too quickly to be safe. So at the same

21:00

time, you're getting the bends.

21:05

Which is just because of the rapid

21:08

change in pressure. These bubbles are

21:10

forming in your blood and so everything becomes

21:12

really painful. So your last moments are

21:15

spent inside of this sealed

21:17

metal tube, groaning metal,

21:20

like screaming at this point all around you.

21:22

There's fires inside, so you're burning

21:24

hot. And at the same time being

21:26

sprayed with tremendously

21:29

powerful jets of water, probably to the

21:31

point where you're being very badly, physically injured by

21:33

that, and your blood is essentially exploding.

21:36

And then there was an implosion

21:40

and that was the high-pitched noise

21:42

that the sub-rescue ship heard. And the thresher

21:45

was later found to be in six different

21:47

pieces at the bottom.

21:50

This actually led to a revamping

21:52

of sub-safety practices, but not

21:54

in time for the USS Scorpion, which

21:57

was a different nuclear attack submarine

21:59

that was lost.

21:59

in 1968 with all hands

22:02

and that was lost because of course also

22:04

kind of made badly I think the submarine crew was

22:07

not super well

22:07

trained and they might have had a

22:09

malfunction torpedo that actually launched

22:12

and then hit hit the sub itself

22:15

but that was lost with all hands in 1968

22:18

and so these are the things that Robert

22:21

Ballard was actually supposed to go look

22:23

for and

22:24

instead at the tail end of that journey he found

22:27

the Titanic.

22:36

So not that many people have actually seen the Titanic.

22:38

No. Do you I mean I'm gonna

22:40

be real we were like don't care a lot

22:42

of reading about all this. I

22:45

don't really get the whole obsession like

22:48

there's a lot of people in this story who

22:50

purportedly have obsessions with the Titanic.

22:53

Yeah. I don't really get it like even

22:55

I know that James Cameron has already

22:58

has said a bunch of like you

23:00

know he's made a movie about it he

23:02

went to it on deep sea

23:04

Challenger. He found out about

23:06

9-11 or 9-11 happened while he was down there. Which is that's

23:08

so crazy by the way to be like dude you

23:10

guys are just the Titanic and they're like we can't talk about that

23:12

now something terrible. Yeah you saw the footage

23:15

from it? No I haven't. There's really funny

23:17

footage of him being told about 9-11 after emerging

23:20

from the sub.

23:22

What's this thing that's going on? Worst

23:25

terrorist attack in history Jim. We

23:27

all were very wrapped up in what we

23:29

were doing and we all thought it was desperately important.

23:32

These two separate hijacked commercial

23:35

jets.

23:35

But I gotta say like I just don't understand

23:38

the idea of someone being

23:40

so consumed by this like or

23:42

haunted by the

23:45

wreck of this ship underwater that they would.

23:48

Yeah.

23:48

Find themselves down there. I

23:51

don't really get it. 12,000 feet under the sea.

23:53

I mean I think maybe because it's like the combination

23:55

of the fact that it was like you know this terrible

23:58

accident.

23:59

that it was like a really tragic,

24:02

you know, mass casualty event,

24:04

a bunch of children died. And it was like, I

24:06

think, in

24:07

a weird way, I think it's similar impulses

24:10

that lead people to want to go see it, then that

24:12

leads me and basically everybody

24:14

else to be so fascinated with the story of these

24:16

submersible passengers who

24:18

died trying to find it. Because at

24:20

its core, the story of the Titanic is

24:23

a story of excruciating, terrible,

24:26

ter-terrifying and terrible mass

24:29

death in a really extraordinary

24:31

way, right? To go from being like, you

24:33

know, a co-owner of Macy's

24:35

department store to

24:37

likely freezing to death as, you

24:40

know, sort of silent

24:42

on an ocean that's completely silent except for

24:44

some smoldering wreckage and the cries of other

24:46

people also freezing to death is

24:48

really, it's both a terrifying, but I think

24:50

a weirdly like... Captivating.

24:53

It's captivating. I think it's a morbid

24:55

curiosity, but I also think it's like the romance and

24:58

the glamour of this. There's

25:00

a, that David Pogue

25:03

was a CBS journalist who made

25:06

a, you know, a short CBS segment

25:07

and then a later two-part podcast

25:10

on the Titan, interviews this one woman

25:12

and she's like obsessed

25:15

with the Titanic. It's like weeping

25:17

because her trip got canceled, which

25:19

I get, you know, it's frustrating to

25:21

have happen. I mean, no one likes the cancellation,

25:23

but... I mean, are you, do you

25:25

care? I mean, you like the Titanic, but like, do you...

25:28

Have any like... I honestly

25:30

don't get it. I mean, I think that,

25:32

I don't know. I think that there's a certain

25:35

type of person that is, and

25:37

we, you know, maybe we can talk about this further along

25:39

in the episode when we talk about some of the people that were

25:41

on board this thing, but,

25:44

you

25:44

know, there's a certain type of person that

25:46

does not accept limits,

25:50

right? I mean, you see these kind of like billionaire

25:52

explorer types that, you

25:55

know, do these sort of like Iron Man,

25:57

insane Iron

25:58

Man competitions and push their body. bodies to these

26:00

insane limits and get these

26:02

crazy injuries. Or someone like Richard

26:05

Branson, who we're going to talk about, I'm

26:08

going to go to space. I'm going to go to Mars. I'm going to go

26:11

visit the bottom of every ocean. Just

26:13

like nonsense craziness. There's

26:16

a certain type. And I think that we

26:19

talk about these people on this ship

26:21

who were

26:22

all very, very wealthy. And

26:26

they're sort of in their line

26:28

of business. They don't see limits to their

26:30

profits. And I think they don't see limits to

26:32

them. These are the types of people that

26:35

have an insane fear

26:38

of dying in a way that there's

26:40

that kind of bourgeois obsession with

26:42

death and overcoming death. And

26:45

not accepting acceptance

26:47

of limits or just a kind of, I

26:52

think I like to say, an appropriate fear or

26:55

a respect for reality. You

26:57

know what I'm saying? And I

26:59

don't know if, I'm

27:00

torn. Because on the one hand, I do

27:03

really think we should

27:06

push ourselves to go further

27:08

and deeper. Absolutely, yes. There's

27:11

a way to do that. That isn't

27:14

in this fucking rinky

27:16

dink tube that

27:20

these guys found imploded on the bottom of

27:22

the ocean. Well, I think you raise a good point

27:24

there. Because first of all,

27:26

these guys aren't explorers. I

27:28

mean, they're tourists. The

27:31

trip down to the Titanic has

27:33

been happening for a long time. James Cameron

27:36

has been down there literally dozens

27:37

of times. Deep sea Challenger is very different.

27:40

Exactly. That's the ship he took. But people

27:42

have been down there a bunch. You know what I mean? It's

27:44

not like they're breaking. They're not exactly

27:47

like breaking new ground in terms of

27:49

we're going to a place no one's ever been before.

27:52

They're doing what's essentially really dangerous

27:55

tourism. Which,

27:56

you know, I'm not going to. If

27:58

people want to do that with their money.

28:00

whatever, you know what I mean? But I do

28:02

think that does speak to a certain impulse

28:05

where I think most people,

28:08

and maybe we can discuss

28:10

this a little more too when we talk about some of the reactions to

28:12

this stuff, but I think most people sort of look

28:14

at this and like, you spent $250,000 on being in this trapped, in

28:18

this cramped five foot death

28:21

trap, instead of like, I mean, $250,000, first of all, you

28:24

can buy a house in many places, but I don't

28:26

even know what kind of vacation I could

28:28

take with that, I could take a very, very, very, very

28:30

long and very, very, very nice one with that.

28:32

That's what I'm saying, it's like they're chasing after something

28:35

to prove that they can conquer

28:37

and dominate something that, by the way, they just proved

28:39

they can't, but it's something

28:42

inside that said, and I really

28:44

do think that it is, there is that kind

28:46

of like, it's

28:49

like a very, it's almost like a

28:51

cliche, right? That like bourgeois

28:53

obsession where it is, I

28:55

can, you see these are the types of like

28:58

biohackers who say like,

29:00

I'm not gonna, like aging is a disease

29:03

as opposed to just a natural sort

29:05

of course of life and kind of the flip side

29:07

of living, right, is dying.

29:11

And I think that it's this like, I don't accept

29:13

limits on the expansion and

29:16

reach of my profits and my business,

29:18

I don't accept the limitations of my own life and

29:20

my,

29:21

and this world. Yeah, yeah,

29:23

yeah. And I really, I think it's a really,

29:27

it makes me feel really queasy when I think about

29:29

it. It's like out of sync

29:34

with the world. It doesn't feel respectful

29:36

and it doesn't feel,

29:39

I mean, this sounds really hippy, but it doesn't sound, it doesn't

29:41

feel in harmony.

29:42

Here's my thing. Listen,

29:44

there's a few things you don't wanna fuck with,

29:46

right, outer space,

29:48

and you don't wanna fuck with the bottom of the ocean. Those are kind

29:50

of the same thing. Yeah. And like, there's

29:52

a reason that like, look at the fucking,

29:55

look at a picture of the Titan.

29:57

Would you go to space in that or

29:59

the equivalent?

30:00

absolutely you would not. And

30:03

so I don't know why these fucking people thought going

30:05

to the bottom of the ocean in that would

30:07

be a good idea. And listen, I

30:10

understand, I am almost sympathetic

30:12

to the feeling that these people have of like, I need

30:14

that rush adventure. I have

30:16

been prone to that in my life myself, but

30:19

the thing is, these guys aren't, like you're

30:21

a passenger. And what I don't

30:23

like and what freaks me out personally is

30:26

it's the same thing with airplanes and helicopters.

30:28

Any of these things where like, you aren't in

30:30

full control of the situation, especially if you're not driving,

30:33

right? Being a passenger in one of these things is that

30:35

any number of a minor accidents

30:37

or mishaps or a

30:40

waylaid bolt or something like that, a loose something

30:43

could result in a catastrophic

30:45

death for you. To me, that

30:47

is just like that being so far out of my control,

30:50

I don't dig that. I would do something dangerous

30:52

if I can be,

30:54

have some kind of

30:56

choice making capabilities within

30:58

that situation. But where that's, you

31:00

don't have those choices and like you're putting that

31:03

fully in somebody else's hands and more importantly,

31:05

into the hands of very unforgiving

31:07

nature, then that is just, I

31:10

mean, that is unfathomable. Then

31:12

there is genuinely no pun intended on that

31:14

for me.

31:16

I don't like boats in general. Well,

31:18

we very much disagree on that. This is why I never

31:20

go on a boat party because no exit strategy.

31:22

You've got no exit plan. Because we met on a yacht

31:24

in Miami. You can't, you gotta just wait for

31:26

that boat to dock. You're stuck there

31:28

for like four hours. You literally hired me to serve

31:31

or derves at a fucking yacht party

31:33

you had. That's how we met. All right, let's talk a

31:35

little bit more about this thing, the Titan. And to

31:37

do that, I think the easiest way is to actually talk

31:39

about some of the people. Well, it's

31:41

not some of the people, all the people. All the people. There's

31:44

only five of them that were on this fucking thing.

31:47

The news, the little newspapers have

31:50

taken to calling them the Titan Five. I've also

31:52

seen the Titanic Five, which feels inappropriate.

31:54

That's inappropriate. These

31:56

are the guys, Stockton Rush, who was the CEO

31:58

of Ocean Gate, the company that owned the Titan. P.

32:02

H. Paul Henry. Nargollet?

32:06

No, mutton you deal with this. How are you going to say it? That's

32:08

not, no that's not it. I'm going to say Nargollet.

32:12

Yeah, Nargollet. P. H. Nargollet. Fucking

32:14

Wes Anderson ass. French

32:16

explorer. Pussy hunter Nargollet. I actually

32:18

kind of like this guy. AKA, me too. His

32:20

name, he's also known as Mr. Titanic. Which

32:23

I gotta say, that sounds,

32:25

it's a little like Castro San Francisco nickname

32:27

sounding. Mr. Titanic, you think it's

32:29

a gay nickname that is a reference to the size

32:32

of his massive penis. No, I didn't even

32:34

go that far. See, here's the thing. No,

32:37

you know what I was thinking more? It's like Beach Blanket

32:39

Babylon.

32:39

Yeah, okay. Which I gotta be honest with

32:41

you. It's like Beach Blanket Babylon featuring Mr.

32:44

Titanic played by P. H. Nargollet.

32:47

I had fond memories of Beach Blanket Babylon as a kid.

32:49

Saw it as an adult. I don't know

32:51

if you saw it as an adult. I know, it was like three

32:53

years ago. A lot of wigs in that

32:55

show.

32:57

Hamish Harding, who is

32:59

known as a British explorer. I'm like, you don't all

33:01

get to be explorers. Explorers aren't real anymore. Hamish is,

33:03

does fit that mold a

33:05

little more than the other guy. I think Hamish

33:08

is more of a like, you know,

33:11

he's like also like, you know, doing

33:13

one of the big yacht races. Yeah,

33:15

yeah. He's that guy.

33:16

Who went to space? Well, we'll get to him. Shazada

33:19

Dawood, the Pakistani, a

33:22

Pakistani billionaire, and then his 19-year-old son,

33:24

Surlaman Dawood. So

33:26

those are the five. They, you know, spoiler

33:28

alert. They

33:29

are perished. Yeah, they died. They are

33:31

perished at the bottom of the ocean. Let's start with Stockton.

33:34

This guy. Because it's really his

33:36

fault that all this happened. So, something

33:39

that I was fascinated to find, well, big

33:42

San Francisco connection here. Yeah, he

33:44

grew up in San Francisco. And I didn't

33:46

find out where. Not Stockton

33:49

Street. No, he grew

33:51

up very, very wealthy in San Francisco.

33:54

There's a funny, an interesting profile on him

33:56

from a couple years ago in Fast Company

33:58

where he's described as more money than a company.

34:00

than Cousteau.

34:02

Not something if you are a true non-listener.

34:05

That is not a good omen. Not

34:07

a good omen. No. So this kid, this

34:09

guy, when he was a kid, he really wanted to be an

34:12

astronaut, which is sort of like, all right buddy, get in line. Yeah,

34:14

okay. You're a kid. Me too. Whatever.

34:17

Yeah. But he like literally wanted to be an astronaut, and I

34:19

think this is like such a wealthy kid that

34:22

he thought that that was like

34:24

maybe a possible road for him. So

34:26

when I was a kid, I also wanted to be an astronaut because

34:29

my dad's favorite movie was The Right Stuff, so

34:31

I saw it several times. But in

34:33

the process of being a child and discovering

34:35

the world, I discovered two things. One, that

34:37

to be an astronaut, you had to be very good at math.

34:40

Yes. And two, that I had

34:43

a, what was later diagnosed as a severe

34:46

learning disability with like a sort of emphasis

34:48

on the severe by a very concerned woman

34:51

in my 20s who did a test on

34:53

me. And that was mathematics

34:55

related. Wait, were

34:57

you still holding on to the astronaut thing in your 20s? No,

34:59

but I was just like, I was so bad at math

35:01

my whole life that I was like, oh. You were like,

35:03

oh, now it makes sense that I can't be an astronaut. Yes, yeah,

35:05

yeah, yeah. I see, I see, I see. My grandfather really

35:08

wanted to be an astronaut, like

35:10

studied so hard and was like, he

35:13

was amazing at physics, at science,

35:15

at math, at everything, and he was

35:17

too tall. He was too, oh, a

35:19

humble brag. No, yeah, he couldn't,

35:21

you have to be very small. Really? To

35:24

fit in the rocket ship. So like.

35:27

I'm a pilot and he was also like almost too

35:29

tall to be a pilot.

35:30

Yeah, this was a

35:32

shot down guy. No, no,

35:35

but you also can't be very tall when you're a pilot.

35:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Stockton

35:40

Rush, this guy, so yeah, he didn't

35:43

really figure out he was gonna be an astronaut

35:45

until he was 44, which I

35:47

think that seems very late,

35:50

much later than in your 20s, I'll give you that.

35:52

I'm trying to think of like right now at 33 if

35:54

I was like telling people. I'm gonna be an

35:56

astronaut. I think I'm gonna be an astronaut at

35:58

some point. Yeah, you're.

35:59

You're super, you're fucking mad beautiful. But you

36:02

just say you go the Lance Bass route.

36:05

Ball? Oh no, that's Armstrong.

36:07

Lance Bass, I'm Matt Lance Bass. Yes,

36:09

I didn't answer that. Cosmonaut. Cosmonaut, true.

36:12

But did it actually have Penn? I feel like he didn't go very far up

36:14

in there. Yes, but he did make it a national story. He

36:16

did, yeah. Okay, I make jokes, but

36:18

Stockton Rush, he was a pilot. I mean, he studied

36:20

aerospace engineering at Princeton. He worked on F-15s.

36:23

He was like, I'm gonna go to Mars, blah, blah, blah, blah,

36:26

however, at some point he also got his MBA, and

36:28

I'm like, you can't be that serious about being a pilot

36:30

at NASA.

36:30

You can't be that serious, you've got the backup MBA. Backup

36:32

MBA at Berkeley? Come on, man. So he

36:34

basically abandons his dream of going

36:37

to space and

36:41

just looks down in the ground and is like, wait, I'll

36:43

just go to the ocean. We have our space, we

36:45

have space at home. Yeah, he's quoted

36:48

as saying the future of mankind is underwater, which

36:50

is not something you want to be quoted as saying

36:52

when you, in fact,

36:54

die underwater. Atlantis guy like

36:56

trying to talk to the rest of the world on

36:59

land and like 4,000 years ago. So

37:03

Mr. Rush says that he got the idea to launch

37:05

Ocean Gate when Richard Branson announced Virgin

37:08

Galactic in 2004. Do you remember,

37:10

I mean, we covered some of this a little bit

37:12

when we did our Elon series, but

37:14

there was that big rush, no pun, no, I'm

37:17

not trying to make a link there, but there was a big

37:19

like gold rush in this idea of

37:21

like extreme exploration

37:23

companies in the 2000s. They're

37:26

like, oh, we can just have, you know, everyone wants to

37:28

go to space. You could just take a Boeing jet

37:30

to space.

37:31

Well, I remember this because I remember,

37:33

I love space. I don't love space

37:35

in the way that I would want to learn about

37:37

it and like, we'll know about how physics work

37:40

and things like that. But I really liked reading

37:42

Robert Heinlein and like Philip K. Dick books

37:44

as a kid. And so that I love, I guess I

37:46

loved science fiction from many years before I was

37:48

born as a child, is what I'm saying. But I'm fascinated

37:51

by space. And I remember when they first sort

37:53

of started mentioning space tourism was gonna be a thing,

37:55

like when the Lance Bass thing happened, I was like, wow, maybe

37:58

someday I'll go to space.

38:00

And then

38:03

I realized that that was not feasible

38:06

for somewhat of my means. So

38:08

this guy is Dr. Nresch. He starts his company with

38:11

just inherited money. Yes.

38:13

I mean, he's so rich that I've been to multiple

38:17

places in San Francisco that are named

38:19

after his family. Yes. He's

38:22

very, very wealthy. I've been to both a symphony

38:24

hall,

38:25

like the orchestra

38:27

hall or whatever in San Francisco. San

38:29

Francisco Symphony. The San Francisco Symphony. Their building

38:31

is named after his grandfather, great grandfather.

38:34

And I've also used to get prescribed Adderall

38:36

when I was 20 at a hospital building

38:39

named for one of his family members as well. Jesus.

38:42

Yeah. The Mark Zuckerberg

38:43

chant. No. That's where I got... What is it? That's

38:46

where they pop my mouth abscess in

38:48

there. Oh my God. Plus

38:50

coming out of my mouth for literally three days. Okay.

38:53

So he launched his Ocean Gate in 2009. He's

38:55

like, we're entering the adventure travel

38:57

market. He says that this whole market

39:00

is worth $275 billion a year, which

39:02

I think is definitely something you would say

39:04

if your company is part of that travel market. That seems a little high

39:06

to me. It's worth that. I don't

39:08

think that's true. He says, I want

39:11

to change the way humanity regards the deep

39:13

ocean, which again is not something I

39:16

think you want to be on record as saying after. I

39:18

do think he did accomplish that. There is.

39:20

There

39:20

is. Yes. I think he has changed

39:23

the way that we regard the deep ocean. Any goodwill

39:25

that the new little mermaid brought the deep ocean

39:27

has been annihilated by the dissolving

39:30

of five bodies in a catastrophic implosion.

39:33

Yeah.

39:33

So his idea is simple. He's like, we're going to

39:35

launch crude submersibles into

39:37

the ocean at insanely dangerous depths,

39:40

namely 13,000 feet below the ocean

39:42

surface. There's

39:46

this old article kind of mapping

39:49

a little bit more of this company because a lot of this info

39:51

has been scrubbed, I'll say. So

39:55

Ocean Gate originally started out

39:57

as a company simply by just chartering

39:59

pressure. private submarines. Now

40:05

remember, in 2008, 2009, this

40:10

is like we're going to Uber everything. Imagine,

40:15

we're just going to charter helicopters. This

40:20

is my new company.

40:23

Not

40:25

a huge market. He

40:30

starts off with this five-seater submarine that

40:35

he bought off some guy that was yellow,

40:37

which

40:40

apparently everyone involved hated for the

40:42

obvious reasons. It's

40:45

classic. I

40:51

like that.

40:53

It's charming

40:56

to have a yellow submarine though. It

41:00

has been described by more than one person

41:02

as having a steampunk air. I'm

41:05

just trying to give a little visual.

41:10

I guess it had a bunch of colorful knobs.

41:14

Everything's like this crazy

41:16

altimeter. That's

41:20

not steampunk, but I like where you're going.

41:22

Apparently,

41:25

he chartered it out to some oil rig companies, which

41:30

is really what he was going after with this market. Oil

41:35

companies are always trying to

41:37

get deep down in there, looking

41:40

for more places to find oil. He

41:43

did some dives for some tourists.

41:48

It would just be like 1,000 feet off Catalina, like

41:53

little wine moms, whatever.

41:55

They'd

41:58

be looking at little fishies and jellyfish. I'm off the little

42:00

St. James, which she did. There's a photograph

42:02

of it. I forgot about that. Yeah. That

42:05

was crazy. Weird, right? Yeah. Weird. That's

42:07

a whole weird thing. And he's horny. But all this

42:10

is to say that the Titanic shit just came later.

42:12

Like that was never part of the original

42:14

company. The Ocean Gate Vision Board. No, the whole

42:16

idea was like, I'm gonna create a private

42:19

company that can charter submarines for

42:22

big oil companies and

42:24

make a lot of money, like doing it that

42:26

way, because otherwise you gotta go through all

42:29

of this annoying regulation. You gotta go through

42:31

the Coast Guard. You gotta do all this. Why do

42:33

that? Well, we can just over it. Yeah. That's

42:35

the basis of this fucking company, right? So

42:38

we

42:40

should talk about Titan, the

42:42

submersible.

42:44

The first version of this thing was called Cyclops

42:46

One. And the reason is, is because it has

42:48

one big port hole that

42:50

is like a big eye.

42:51

Yeah. Makes sense. A glaring

42:53

sphincter. What would you call the shape of this

42:56

thing? I would say, well, it's

42:58

the shape of a sub, right? They're all

43:00

kind of shaped like in that bullet sort

43:02

of way. Yeah, it's like a big bullet. It's not as tapered

43:05

as like a nuclear sub or whatever. It's not the most

43:08

aerodynamics sub I've ever seen. But I think smaller

43:10

submersibles, from what I understand, usually

43:13

kind of have that, like if a nuclear sub,

43:16

if like the Thresher

43:18

is or whatever, like the Kursk is like a 5.56 round, like

43:21

a long sort of skinnier one, the

43:23

submersibles tend to be like a 38 caliber or

43:26

whatever, like a 38

43:28

special, like short and fat, you know? Like

43:31

they're sort of wider. Yeah. Rather

43:33

than like a bulldog. They're like bulldogs. Yeah, they're bulldog-like.

43:35

They're like the French bulldog of the submersible

43:38

class. Yes, yes, with the sort of abbreviated

43:40

nose that French bulldogs

43:42

have. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, it's

43:44

like 20 feet long. It is not

43:46

big. Not big. Not big. Actually,

43:48

that's pretty big, some girls think, but. Okay, so

43:50

the first version of this, they

43:52

worked with University of Washington and Boeing on

43:55

it. Both of those, like

43:57

both the University of Washington and Boeing

43:59

have come.

43:59

forward and then like we had nothing to

44:02

do with Titan. Please leave our names out of this. So

44:04

take that for what it's worth. It

44:07

really, they basically just bought an old submersible

44:10

and retrofitted to make this thing. They added

44:12

these four little electric thrusters.

44:15

We talked about that. That's to kind of like, you know, get

44:17

it. You can maneuver it around. You can go up, down, go around, yeah.

44:19

They control that with, and much hay

44:21

has been made of this, with a Sony PlayStation

44:23

controller. So

44:26

let me explain to you, frankly,

44:28

let me mansplain to you a little bit here.

44:31

Okay. People use game

44:33

controllers in all sorts of ways. Twitch

44:36

streamers make a lot of money using it. It's a real

44:38

job. No, but they, they, for some reason, and

44:40

I don't actually, I can't really mansplain this because I don't

44:42

know any technical details about it. I just

44:44

know this is true from my own research,

44:47

both in that, the

44:49

cop episode we did about robot cops, but also

44:51

from seeing old videos, like from

44:54

like the beginning of the Syrian Civil War, people

44:56

use

44:57

the game controllers for

45:00

military purposes frequently, right? There's

45:02

an Israeli tank that is driven by basically

45:05

an Xbox controller. There's like,

45:07

there's machine guns on the

45:10

Israel, like that wall they have,

45:12

that Israel has to keep the Palestinians

45:14

in like an open air prison. They have machine guns

45:16

that have game controllers they use.

45:18

Yeah, most of that is because they're really intuitive.

45:21

Yeah, yeah. And because every

45:23

dumb shit kid knows how to use one. The

45:26

thing with the Titan though, is they didn't even use,

45:29

they used a Logitech off brand

45:31

controller, which I think is the really funny thing

45:33

about that. Like, because that,

45:36

the reason I think that like, cause I think everybody who

45:38

saw that thinks it's funny in a way,

45:40

like in a weird way, the funny thing about

45:42

it to me is the fact that like, it belies

45:45

a certain level of thought or carelessness,

45:48

either of which is funny.

45:50

It's very funny to be like, we gotta

45:52

save the 40 bucks or whatever

45:54

the price difference is to not go name

45:56

brand on it. I think it's probably like 10 bucks

45:58

price difference. Oh my God.

45:59

Well, there's a lot of corners that

46:02

were cut. That's what we'll get into. So that

46:04

was the first version. The second version,

46:06

Cyclops II, which is what becomes the Titan, is

46:08

really where they're kind of designing it themselves.

46:10

Yeah, yeah. Now, this is the first

46:13

submersible with a hole made from carbon fiber

46:15

and glass, okay? So it's seven

46:17

inches of razor-thin

46:19

carbon fiber reinforced

46:22

plastic. So

46:24

just from my own self

46:26

here, speaking for myself,

46:29

I don't want to be on a submersible that's trying

46:32

something new. You know, like that's

46:34

like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like

46:37

if someone's like, hey, we have a new kind of airplane,

46:39

no one's ever built anything like it. Do you want

46:41

to go on it? I would say no. No.

46:44

You know, I'm like, you know what? Keep

46:46

me on the thing that they've been doing since like the Civil War.

46:48

Well, yeah, flip side

46:50

of that is I don't want to be on a plane that's like 60 years

46:52

old. No, I want to be on a plane

46:54

that's 15 years old, 10 years old. 10 years

46:58

old. 10 years, but still got a lot of light. Still got

47:00

a lot of light. And you know what? It's got some character.

47:02

And everyone knows how to

47:04

fix it. Yes. Yes. Nothing

47:06

proprietary. Nothing proprietary. I don't want to be on a proprietary

47:09

submarine. No. And a bespoke submarine either.

47:11

Which is to say that these things are usually made

47:13

of steel. Yes. Not carbon

47:15

fiber. Not carbon fiber. Reinforced plastic.

47:18

That's the same material that forms the wings

47:20

of the 747, which is kind of interesting, but

47:22

it's not actually ever used.

47:25

It's really, really rare for it to ever be

47:27

used in any kind of deep sea situation. Yeah.

47:30

I mean, you know, we'll talk about

47:33

being exploded by the pressures of the sea

47:35

later or imploded and exploded by the pressure

47:37

of the sea later. But like I want something

47:39

that's like steel sounds really good to me.

47:41

Steel sounds great. Titanium. I know there's some titanium

47:44

on this, but like

47:45

titanium. I really like the way that sounds.

47:47

Carbon fiber plastic is not

47:50

just that just doesn't sound really like

47:52

something that can withstand a lot of pressure. Yeah.

47:55

I got to say the rest of it doesn't sound great either.

47:57

One engineer described all of the other parts

47:59

of the submarine.

47:59

as being quote, off the shelf.

48:03

Not something you wanna hear. This

48:06

also includes parts that the CEO himself described

48:08

as coming from a camping store. Yes,

48:11

in

48:11

the Pogue interview, he's filming

48:13

this guy and he's

48:16

stocked and rushed and he's sort of bragging. It's like, yeah,

48:18

we just got some of these parts from like an

48:20

RV

48:21

store. Yeah. And

48:23

it's like, oh, that's not, do you really wanna say that in the

48:26

camera? That's also,

48:27

there's a hubris in that too. This is

48:29

truly a tale of hubris. Yes. Now

48:32

the carbon fiber composite of this thing, it was made

48:34

by this company called Spencer Composites. They had

48:36

previously designed a single

48:38

seat personal submarine called Deep Flight Challenger,

48:41

which I'm just gonna say, I don't like the

48:43

idea of any sort of

48:45

vessel having the word challenger

48:47

in it. I think it's just like a no-go. I fully agree. It's

48:50

that name should have been vetoed with the famous challenger.

48:52

How about this, call it the agreement. You

48:54

know what I mean? Yeah. Like the

48:57

gentle agreement. Or

48:57

just like deep sea friend.

49:00

Yeah, the friendly wave. That's even got

49:02

kind of a double thing going on there. I think that's great.

49:04

Yeah. So that company, Deep Flight Challenger, it

49:07

was bought by Richard Branson, who I fucking

49:09

hate, I had to say. I think he's really fucking cool. I think he's

49:11

really fucking cool. I really, really hate this guy. Oh, shut up.

49:13

No, you don't. You would say that, Virgin. Virgin.

49:19

That's such a good one. Me and Branson are at

49:21

the club. Calling people a virgin is so funny. Getting some strings,

49:23

that's so funny. You're a virgin.

49:26

You're a virgin who can't drive.

49:29

Okay, well we don't. Shout out to the girls. No, that's not

49:31

good. Okay,

49:33

so Richard Branson, he had this whole thing that

49:36

he was like, I'm gonna do these

49:38

single person dives to all

49:40

five ocean

49:41

floors. The man's a moron.

49:43

Shut the fuck up. He was like, I'm gonna go 36,000 feet underwater,

49:47

which is the lowest point on Earth. Like I'm gonna like knock

49:50

on Earth's

49:50

door, basically. Go

49:53

down. What kind of Earth's door? Yeah, go down

49:55

to hell. You guys got any core in there? Yeah,

49:57

come on out. It turns out

49:59

he had to like. like shelved the whole thing because they found

50:01

that basically this carbon fiber composite, it

50:04

would start to break down from the pressure after just

50:06

one dive.

50:08

Yes. So it could not, it was like suitable

50:10

for the one time. Yeah, yeah. But after, but

50:12

the subsequent ones, they were like, oh, this

50:14

isn't gonna work. You don't want a disposable

50:16

one man sub. And

50:18

that tracks with what we know about the

50:21

Titan because it had frequently

50:23

sort of been having to be

50:25

retrofitted. Yes. And re-repaired

50:27

and things like this and worked on quite a bit.

50:29

Yeah. And the thing is Ocean Gate, the company

50:32

was like totally aware of all of these limitations.

50:34

There were at least two former employees

50:36

that voiced concerned about the safety of this fucking thing.

50:39

There was one guy, David Lockridge,

50:41

who, I mean, he claimed in a court suit

50:44

that there was basically no testing done to

50:46

make sure that the hull was like sound enough

50:48

to handle the dives that they were doing. Specifically,

50:51

like, I guess it's like the type of glue that they

50:54

were using, like wasn't holding

50:56

because of the thickness of the thing. And

50:59

then there was another employee that spoke to

51:01

CNN anonymously and

51:03

they said that they had voiced concerned because the hull

51:05

showed up

51:07

and it was five inches thick as opposed to the

51:09

seven inches thick, which is what they had

51:11

designed it to be, which is like, that's a fucking

51:14

huge difference. Yeah. That's two

51:16

inches, dude. Yeah,

51:17

which actually is nice. Okay, come on. and

51:20

five inches, but like, yeah, it's basically

51:23

the same thing. There's like other people

51:25

who said the company would basically dismiss, there

51:27

was, you know, any kind of contractor that would voice concerns,

51:30

the company would be like, shut up, go away, don't

51:33

say it. There was like employees that would

51:35

go to Stockton himself and be like, look,

51:37

we think that Ocean Gate is like potentially

51:39

violating the US law because you're not

51:42

having the Coast Guard do routine

51:44

inspections. Like all of the

51:46

kind of shit that you want

51:49

to be being done on a submarine

51:52

or submersible. I mean, it's crazy.

51:54

Listen, I am, I

51:56

don't think, I don't think people

51:58

should pay taxes, right?

51:59

I think most laws are kind of goofy.

52:02

But one thing that I'm very much

52:04

pro is like safety inspections

52:07

of things that keep killing. That's very gentle of you. You know what

52:09

I mean? I'm like, that's so sick that sometimes

52:11

they're like, there's a guy at the airport looking at the plane. Not

52:14

always, but sometimes that guy's there.

52:16

I do think- You know what I'm gonna say too? I don't

52:18

think we got enough. I

52:20

think we could up them. We could up them? I

52:23

think we could up them. The odds are pretty good. After seeing

52:25

this thing implode, I think we could up them.

52:27

Yeah, yeah. Well, the airplane is more terror

52:29

too because you're going down and you get

52:31

that fear and that sort of law. Yeah, anyways.

52:35

There was

52:37

a titanic amount of hubris here

52:40

because they were just like, we don't need these inspectors. We

52:42

don't need these regulations. And in fact, they were vocal

52:44

about the fact that

52:47

basically people were on their nuts about their

52:49

submarine maybe being unsafe.

52:51

Yeah,

52:51

and like, rush himself. I mean, the

52:53

man is a one man quote machine. The

52:57

shit that would come out of this man's mouth in the press, it's

53:00

crazy.

53:00

You should start a podcast. It's crazy.

53:03

Yeah, it's insane. The podcast

53:05

that you sent, I mean,

53:06

it is baffling the stuff that comes

53:08

out of his mouth. I mean, listen to this.

53:10

I'd like to be remembered as an innovator.

53:14

I think it was General MacArthur said, you're remembered

53:16

for the rules you break. And

53:18

I've broken some rules to make this. I

53:20

think I've broken them with logic and good

53:22

engineering behind me, the carbon fiber and titanium.

53:25

There's a rule you don't do that. Well, I did.

53:26

I do complain in the press

53:28

about industry regulations, which is a classic

53:31

tech guy. I mean, so much of the shit reminds

53:33

me of early Tesla, Elon

53:34

shit. I mean, it's crazy, but

53:38

you know, in 2019, he's quoted

53:40

as saying, it's obscenely safe because there are

53:42

all these regulations, but it also

53:44

hasn't innovated or grown because

53:47

there are all these regulations. I mean, it's just classic

53:49

break stuff, worry about it later

53:51

guy.

53:52

Move fast, move fast, break stuff. Totally. Which

53:54

is just like, I get that if you're like, we

53:56

need to make an app that makes people have doggy

53:58

ears or whatever. But there's a

54:00

difference between that and submerging very

54:03

deep in the ocean where the immense pressures could

54:05

literally boil your blood and

54:08

explode your body. And it has. I mean, the

54:10

reason that the private submersible

54:12

industry, such as it is, doesn't actually

54:15

exist is because this shit is fucking

54:17

dangerous. Yeah, very dangerous. And there's

54:20

so many industrial accidents and submarine

54:22

work. It's crazy dangerous.

54:24

Diving is crazy dangerous. There's a reason

54:27

why they send ROVs down there

54:29

instead of fucking manned vehicles.

54:31

Yeah, they basically send drones down

54:33

because it's much, much, much, much, much,

54:35

much safer. Yes.

54:38

And because of that, all

54:40

of like submersibles and underwater

54:42

vehicles, whatever we want to call

54:45

them, have to be classed, right? In

54:48

terms of safety. And Ocean

54:50

Gates, Titan, wasn't classed at

54:53

all. And they flaunted

54:55

that, basically. They were

54:57

like, oh, by definition, innovation

55:00

is outside of an already accepted system.

55:02

However, this does not mean Ocean Gate does not meet

55:05

standards where they apply. It does mean that innovation

55:07

often falls outside the existing

55:09

industry paradigm.

55:11

And it's like, fuck. That was one of their

55:14

big reasons why, like, if you think

55:16

of any small

55:18

submersible that you may have seen pictures of, where

55:20

there's this giant bank of controls, I mean, if

55:22

you look at the interior of

55:24

the Titan, it is literally just like

55:26

two computer monitors and a fucking controller.

55:29

I mean, the thing's gotten lost before. I mean, David

55:32

Pogue,

55:34

when this whole kerfluffle

55:37

was happening, he says that the

55:39

ship got lost, or the Titan was lost

55:41

briefly for like several hours when

55:43

he was on the mothership, and

55:46

that the crew cut the internet so that people couldn't

55:49

complain. But the ship, it got lost down there, right?

55:51

Because it's forced to communicate with the surface

55:54

basically in order to navigate, even basically.

55:59

And there's all these

55:59

There's other stories in the podcast of people

56:02

going down there in the submersible and they can't find

56:04

the Titanic. They're being given

56:06

directions from the mothership and interpreting

56:08

them wrong.

56:09

They're going the wrong direction

56:12

after misinterpreting directions. That

56:14

would ...

56:15

I'm sorry. If I'm on the sub with you

56:17

and you're being told to move east 250 meters

56:19

or whatever, and you move west 250

56:22

meters, I'm going to strangle you and take control. I'm

56:25

going to mutiny on that because you don't

56:27

know east from west because here's the other thing. Down

56:30

at the bottom there, your fucking compass doesn't work. They

56:32

go crazy and start spinning. And you're all turned around. You're

56:34

all turned around. I would want a big bank

56:36

of glowing knobs and controls

56:39

even if they didn't do anything. It would just make me feel better.

56:41

Well,

56:41

if you don't have that, you got a Prime

56:44

Day sale logitech controller.

56:49

They continually compared their company

56:51

to SpaceX, which I got to say, to their credit, SpaceX

56:55

is also a company

56:55

that is famous for having their vessels roll

56:58

out. In the ocean, too. It

57:00

does look like

57:02

OceanGate was using Starlink for

57:04

communications, which is very ...

57:07

I hate to say it. That

57:09

is very funny. I hate to say

57:11

it. Apparently, they weren't using that to communicate

57:13

with the sub itself,

57:15

but it is very funny because certainly

57:18

they didn't call in anything for many hours,

57:21

although you don't need Starlink to call in, I think, from a ship.

57:23

But it is very funny.

57:25

So Rush first sets the price of OceanGate's

57:27

Titanic dive at $105,129. Why

57:34

is that, Liz? That is the inflation

57:36

adjusted price of a first class ticket

57:39

on the Titanic in 1912. That

57:41

was so fucking ready. I don't

57:43

want to blow my brains

57:44

out. If only they had gotten here and prevented

57:46

the Federal Reserve from starting,

57:48

then we wouldn't have inflation at all. That

57:51

ticket famously jumped to $250,000 in 2023. I

57:55

don't believe that is because of inflation.

57:57

No, it

57:58

was like two years ago that it was last ... Well,

58:00

it's gone up quite a bit. There was one woman

58:02

that was getting interviewed on the Pogue thing, and

58:05

she's like, yeah, when I first heard about this, I think

58:07

they were taking reservations before they started

58:09

launching. She was like, it was $40,000, and by the time I saved that

58:11

up, it was $60,000, and

58:14

by the time I saved it up, it was $80,000. It's

58:16

like, Jesus. So they just kept raising

58:18

the prices because they knew people would pay.

58:19

Yeah. I

58:22

mean, they really like to play up

58:24

the scientific angle of what they're doing, as

58:27

opposed to it just being kind of like adventure

58:29

tourism. I don't really

58:31

think it whole. I mean, they keep saying

58:33

like, oh, we're doing missions. Oh, we're going

58:35

down there to like study what's going on. There

58:37

was a curator of maritime history at

58:39

the Smithsonian's National

58:42

Museum of American History, this guy, Paul Johnston, and

58:45

he was like, in my opinion, there's

58:47

not much to be learned from Titanic that we don't

58:49

already

58:49

know. I got to

58:51

agree with him. It's like, what are you studying?

58:54

It's like, oh, we're seeing the rate of decay. I

58:56

mean, I think we already did that.

58:57

We know the rate of decay. We

59:00

know when it's going to be totally decayed. I

59:02

get wanting to see it if you're like an underwater

59:04

person or whatever. Like a merman? Like

59:08

the French explorer or whatever. He

59:10

was a Titanic expert. If you want to see a

59:12

merman too, which

59:14

those are, I got some confidence. But you can't

59:16

touch anything. You can't take anything. You can't take

59:18

anything. It's a UNESCO site.

59:22

Which is bullshit. Let me take it. It's

59:25

so hard to get down there that if you get down there, you should

59:27

be able to take one thing. I

59:30

have a question. Who? You know a little bit about maritime

59:32

law. Yes, I do. That

59:35

is in international waters, correct? Yeah.

59:39

When it's so deep, does it become international too?

59:41

How does that work? Does

59:43

it go all the way down? Yeah,

59:45

it goes all the way down. Wait, so hold on. I

59:49

don't

59:49

know. I was just wondering. It's probably

59:51

a joint. It's like

59:54

a UN administered thing. UNESCO

59:56

would make sense. I'm just wondering if it's going to

59:58

handle some of the issues.

59:59

these insurance claims.

1:00:01

Oh well that I think there is

1:00:04

specifically maritime insurance

1:00:06

and so that'll probably be handled through I mean

1:00:09

I would it would be funny to see if the

1:00:11

vessel was like well actually I don't

1:00:13

know because they're on

1:00:15

they're like

1:00:16

contracting with this vessel so I don't know but like

1:00:18

whoever the vessel that actually took them there

1:00:20

the polar princess prince

1:00:22

excuse me which by the way yeah it's fine

1:00:25

that's yes it's 2023 Liz yes but I don't know but they're

1:00:31

gonna get sued at the ass there in the maritime insurance

1:00:34

is a has a long and storied history in

1:00:36

both the crown colonies and the you know

1:00:39

the UK itself which is maybe it's if

1:00:41

it's charted out of there and the US

1:00:43

and so they're getting sued

1:00:45

yeah badly no matter what waivers yeah

1:00:48

no matter what those don't hold it this do

1:00:50

not hold yeah you can't sign away death

1:00:52

you're fucked yeah basically yeah

1:00:55

these people are fucked

1:01:01

so Rush called the clients

1:01:04

of his I think colloquially titanium

1:01:14

titanium the acts titanium

1:01:17

acts titanium

1:01:21

acts but he

1:01:23

also called the like you mentioned he

1:01:26

didn't refer to them as tourists but mission specialists

1:01:28

yeah mission special which that's not look I went

1:01:30

to space camp and I think they also called me a space

1:01:32

camp missions fairies base camp he

1:01:35

was like this isn't tourism this is mission your mission

1:01:37

specialist and like there'd be like you

1:01:39

know a few scientists on

1:01:41

board the mothership you know

1:01:43

going over the I don't know

1:01:45

do some doing some kind of studies but like really

1:01:48

this was tourism

1:01:49

plain and simple yes and that is

1:01:52

you know basically laid out with

1:01:55

the cast of characters that were on

1:01:57

this thing although the first one

1:01:59

the face of that Paul Henry Nargile,

1:02:03

Mr. Titanic. So this

1:02:05

guy is, I mean this is sort of a classic, I

1:02:08

will be honest with you,

1:02:09

all these guys are kind of archetypes. Yeah.

1:02:12

Well most of them are archetypes. Yeah. But it

1:02:14

is a little Wes Anderson-y I gotta say. It is a little Wes

1:02:16

Anderson. I never saw that little movie about

1:02:18

that. It's not really my thing. But

1:02:23

he's a French oceanographer, Titanic

1:02:26

expert, he's 77 years old, the punk age.

1:02:28

He

1:02:29

was. He was 77 years old. He spent 22

1:02:32

years in the French Navy before

1:02:35

becoming an oceanographer. And actually, I mean

1:02:37

the guy, the sea was in his blood. He'd been diving

1:02:39

since he was 8 years old. Yeah,

1:02:40

you look at this guy, he's

1:02:43

a French naval man through and

1:02:45

through. I mean his

1:02:47

vibe goes hard. His vibe, it's good, it's good. The

1:02:49

guy, I mean he was also one of the first people to actually

1:02:52

see the Titanic with his own two eyes.

1:02:54

He was one, I think he might have been on the first

1:02:56

submersible expedition down to

1:02:58

the Titanic back

1:02:59

in 1987. And the funny thing about

1:03:01

this guy is he actually claims that he did

1:03:03

not give a fuck about the Titanic before

1:03:06

seeing it then. That he had basically been assigned

1:03:08

by the French Navy to go on this civilian

1:03:11

mission essentially. To go look at the Titanic and

1:03:15

I'm sure to do some tests or whatever. Plenty

1:03:17

of French flag down there. And

1:03:20

he says that he was basically

1:03:22

awed into silence for about 10 minutes to

1:03:25

seeing this thing. I mean it must have been a pretty

1:03:27

incredible

1:03:27

site. Huge fucking ship. Yeah,

1:03:29

I mean this was a big deal in this

1:03:31

guy's life and he becomes a real deal Titanic

1:03:34

expert. You know he is

1:03:36

like James Cameron, one of these Titanic

1:03:39

goers, right?

1:03:41

You know James Cameron is part of this community

1:03:43

of people who have been down there many times. He's

1:03:45

actually beat James, he's gone down there 37 times,

1:03:47

this is anage a la. He's brought back

1:03:50

things to the surface to study and I think

1:03:52

this is sweet. He at one point brought a watch

1:03:55

of somebody

1:03:56

up to the surface and then gave it to their daughter.

1:03:58

I think that's illegal. Is

1:04:00

it illegal? No. Salvage.

1:04:03

Here's the thing about maritime law. I know

1:04:06

but here's the thing about maritime law and I

1:04:08

disagree with the UN on this and many things. If

1:04:10

it's down in the sea, it's

1:04:12

for you or for me. Like if

1:04:15

it's, that's the thing. Like nothing

1:04:17

should be... The sea belongs

1:04:20

to the people. The sea belongs to the people, right? And

1:04:22

the things in the sea that once belonged to the people...

1:04:24

The more people. It belongs to anybody. I

1:04:27

think that salvaging

1:04:28

Rex is one of the most noble

1:04:30

things that a guy who lives

1:04:33

off his wits in the Florida Keys can do. You're

1:04:35

talking about pirates. Sort of like a Travis

1:04:37

McGee Pirates kind of thing. Yeah. But like

1:04:39

I think that you should be able to salvage from Rex

1:04:41

with no repercussions whatsoever. Hey,

1:04:44

don't wreck your ship if you don't want things taken from it

1:04:46

is also what I say. Interesting. He

1:04:49

seems like, and this is something that all of his kind of friends

1:04:51

and everybody was saying, like this is... If you're going to be trapped

1:04:53

in a submersible, this is before that

1:04:55

was confirmed that they had imploded. Then you'd be

1:04:57

trapped in a submersible down at the bottom of the motherfucking

1:04:59

ocean when the walls are closing in. The

1:05:02

carbon fiber is groaning and

1:05:05

people are having diarrhea in the little toilet and that thing,

1:05:07

which we have to talk about. It's not a toilet. It's not

1:05:09

a toilet. It's a box. We'll talk about that. This

1:05:12

is a good guy to have down with you because he's

1:05:14

a very calm guy. He's done this a million times. I

1:05:17

do think it's stupid of him to go

1:05:19

down in this sub.

1:05:20

But

1:05:22

one thing though is that 77 years

1:05:24

old, right? This guy's life has basically

1:05:27

been defined by that Titanic.

1:05:29

This is the way you want to go out.

1:05:31

This is kind of the way you want to go

1:05:33

out. You want to go out in a sub above

1:05:36

the Titanic.

1:05:37

There's a really lovely quote from

1:05:39

him in this interview with the French paper where

1:05:41

he says, I have received letters from people telling

1:05:43

me that they're clairvoyant and that I

1:05:46

was on the boat in 1912. Well,

1:05:49

why not? I love that.

1:05:52

He seems like a very, very cool guy. He

1:05:55

accidentally discovered

1:05:57

this very famous ship called Laloon.

1:05:59

which was a French ship that sank

1:06:02

in 1641. It was Louis

1:06:04

XIV's famous big ship. And

1:06:06

he had, Louis XIV famously like covered

1:06:08

up the sinking of it because it was so embarrassing

1:06:11

to the crown.

1:06:11

He's like, oh, they actually just went off the side

1:06:13

of the world? But it's this crazy, like,

1:06:16

I mean, 1600s ship. Like

1:06:19

a galleon. Like a galleon, yeah. Yeah, it's like this crazy,

1:06:21

and it was, it's so French, la lune, like can you imagine?

1:06:24

And gilded and whatever. And this dude just

1:06:26

like found it accidentally.

1:06:27

Does he get the treasure that was on it?

1:06:30

I mean, I hope so. You should be able to get the treasure that's

1:06:32

on it, especially if you're the first guy to find it. But

1:06:34

I mean, I will say like, obviously

1:06:37

I find this, I found this whole

1:06:40

saga to be,

1:06:41

it's some parts amusing, right?

1:06:43

But it is like, if this guy's

1:06:46

gonna die,

1:06:47

this is kind of the place to do it. You

1:06:49

know, like this is their version of like a Titanic

1:06:51

submersible guy's warrior's death,

1:06:54

is to die in a submersible on the way down

1:06:56

to the Titanic. And

1:06:59

it's a painting, yeah. He

1:07:01

was joined by some people who were maybe a little

1:07:03

less illustrious in terms of their

1:07:05

pedigrees, as they relate to the

1:07:07

Titanic, but were themselves

1:07:10

very much world travelers. So,

1:07:12

Chisada Dawoud is a member

1:07:14

of a very prominent and very, very wealthy

1:07:17

Pakistani family. His father

1:07:19

had been like a big businessman who'd navigated

1:07:21

the fertilizer and oil trade.

1:07:24

And really, the man's whole empire was built essentially

1:07:26

on shit. I mean, fertilizer is

1:07:28

the Dawoud family's, like it's

1:07:31

their bread and their motherfucking butter, and

1:07:33

it's the stuff they put on their crops of money to make them

1:07:35

grow. The guy is fabulously

1:07:38

wealthy. You know, he's also not

1:07:40

only in the fertilizer business, he's also in the Dawoud

1:07:42

business,

1:07:42

meaning that he helps manage

1:07:45

all of their charitable acts.

1:07:47

Of

1:07:49

course, member of the WEF, which many

1:07:51

people pointed out to as the reason he died, which doesn't

1:07:53

make sense to me, because they also think that, I don't

1:07:56

know. But he's also a

1:07:58

member, and this ties into, I believe,

1:07:59

next episode coming out, a

1:08:01

member of SETI, who's on the board

1:08:04

of directors of SETI. That's

1:08:06

very weird. It is very weird. Why

1:08:08

is he down in the sea when he should be up in space?

1:08:11

And again, it's funny because actually

1:08:13

if I examine all these people individually, I actually

1:08:15

feel some degree of sympathy for him. The guy was

1:08:17

kind of a nerd. He was an avid

1:08:20

science fiction reader. That was the big thing that

1:08:22

he bonded with his son about. And

1:08:24

that struck to me because that's something I bonded

1:08:26

with my dad about, of science fiction. And

1:08:31

specifically old science fiction. And

1:08:34

I'm sure that he just wanted to see this crazy

1:08:37

fucking thing, right? He sort

1:08:39

of dragged his 19-year-old son, Suleiman,

1:08:41

who's a college student, along. And

1:08:43

there's some kind of heartbreaking

1:08:45

quotes about the kid

1:08:47

kind of just wanted to go because he loves his dad and didn't

1:08:49

really want to go in the first place. He was super scared.

1:08:51

I've got to tell you this.

1:08:53

I love a lot of people in this world. Trust

1:08:55

the instinct. Trust the gut on that one. Say

1:08:57

no. Say no. I'll

1:09:00

stay on the ship. Part of becoming

1:09:02

an adult is learning how to say no. I

1:09:04

am still kind of bad at it. Oh, I'm

1:09:07

famously terrible. Yeah, most people are. But

1:09:11

if someone's going to be like, do you want to go somewhere

1:09:14

in a submarine?

1:09:15

Sorry, fact check, submersible.

1:09:17

Submersible, yeah. But I'm going to probably say no

1:09:20

because I don't like the pressure. I think you would say

1:09:22

yes to the submarine. I don't think I would. Really?

1:09:25

I thought about submarines a lot. I don't think I would. No.

1:09:28

Ship

1:09:28

yes anywhere. I would. I'm not going

1:09:30

to go to the Arctic. But I would. Really?

1:09:33

I just don't want to go. I don't care. What

1:09:35

am I going to see there? I want to see the secret war that's going on there.

1:09:37

Well, the Nazis won that list. As

1:09:39

a Pole, you're not going to like what you find up there.

1:09:42

You're not going to like it. Hold the pole.

1:09:44

So, the final passenger was a guy named Hamish

1:09:47

Harding. Hamish. Hamish

1:09:49

Harding. This guy was so British.

1:09:53

Hamish Harding is the fucking craziest

1:09:55

British name I've ever heard. So British. Born

1:09:59

in London. raised in Hong Kong. It

1:10:01

is also very British. It's one of

1:10:03

the most British, but I will say this, being

1:10:05

born in London and being raised in Hong Kong is

1:10:08

almost more British than being born

1:10:10

and raised in London. Yeah, I agree. I

1:10:12

will say it's far more British. Absolutely.

1:10:14

Because Hong Kong, I feel, was like

1:10:16

post-war Britain's India.

1:10:19

In some ways, yeah. Well, post-independence.

1:10:21

Yeah. Yes. We

1:10:23

know what you're saying. You know what I'm saying. I got

1:10:25

a pilot's license in 1985 and had a

1:10:28

lifelong obsession with aviation. Another

1:10:30

thing that I do not understand, what a deeter

1:10:32

needs to fly or whatever that fucking movie

1:10:34

was, made a ton of money

1:10:37

in Logica, India. Oh, so he did go to India. He

1:10:39

went to India and made a bunch of money in

1:10:42

this Logica, not Logitech,

1:10:45

to be clear, Logica. It's an

1:10:47

Indian subsidiary of a British IT company.

1:10:49

Go to iFixi Microchips, sir.

1:10:52

Chimney Sweep shows up and he comes

1:10:54

and fixes your phone lines. He started something

1:10:56

called the Action Group, which sounds something like

1:10:58

a sort of Rhodesian mercenary company.

1:11:00

But it was

1:11:02

sort of his, which actually fair enough, it

1:11:04

could have been if he had been born maybe 10 years earlier.

1:11:07

But this was basically his

1:11:09

investment company, which had these

1:11:12

different companies that all had action in the name.

1:11:15

I think Action Aviation is the one thing that he was sort

1:11:17

of known for, his aviation

1:11:20

company that was based out of Dubai.

1:11:22

Described as a billionaire, I fail

1:11:24

to see how he's necessarily a billionaire unless he comes

1:11:26

from some serious family money, because a billion dollars

1:11:28

is a lot of fucking money.

1:11:29

It's probably a lot of family money, remember,

1:11:32

born in London, raised from Hong Kong. But then also

1:11:34

he started a ton of dumbass

1:11:36

tech companies early on. He

1:11:40

was the Middle East chairman of the Explorers

1:11:43

Club. Oh my God, I'm so happy we're talking about

1:11:45

this thing. Have you been to the Explorers Club? Are you kidding?

1:11:47

No. Oh, we should go. Could

1:11:49

you just go? Could you just go? I

1:11:52

don't think you can just go, but I'm

1:11:54

like... Is it in Life Aquatic? Or

1:11:56

it's like, obviously, it's not a real Explorers

1:11:59

Club, but maybe it's... It's in Manhattan, I think. Stop.

1:12:01

No, it is in Manhattan. Stop. What?

1:12:05

Why are you making him jump? I'm saying, it was in the life,

1:12:07

in the movie. I haven't seen that movie, I just said

1:12:09

that. But why would

1:12:11

I be saying that it's in a different place than Manhattan,

1:12:14

that doesn't make any sense, what you're saying. Maybe

1:12:16

I was like, oh, but I don't know. You're not listening.

1:12:17

Sorry. You're not listening. Sometimes

1:12:20

the pressure isn't just underwater. Sometimes the pressure's

1:12:23

in a studio with your friends.

1:12:25

He was the Middle East chairman of the Explorers Club, sort of

1:12:28

a title once held by

1:12:30

old Lawrence himself. How

1:12:32

many dead animals

1:12:34

do you think are in that thing? I would say a holocaust

1:12:39

of like hippopotamus heads. No,

1:12:42

you think hippo heads? Hippo heads are crazy,

1:12:44

Ged. That is wrong. When you bring

1:12:46

a female back to the crib and you're like, and

1:12:49

you turn on your LED gamer lights around

1:12:51

your crazy fucked up, like all

1:12:53

TikTok furniture living room. And

1:12:56

the only thing that you have that you didn't

1:12:58

purchase on the internet within the past six months is a gigantic

1:13:00

hippo head that you slew and sawed off

1:13:03

yourself.

1:13:04

That's a panty dropper.

1:13:06

But the Explorers Club, for those

1:13:08

of you who don't know, is a club of explorers.

1:13:11

And I mean, there's really no better way to

1:13:13

describe that. I mean, really, any of

1:13:15

the famous explorers that you know about that have been

1:13:17

around like sort of post 1905 when it started,

1:13:19

were in this. And like, it is, the

1:13:21

big thing is, is like they have these flags

1:13:24

of like Explorers Club's flags that they

1:13:26

will go plant on

1:13:27

different, like Buzz Aldrin took one of the fucking

1:13:29

moon. It's like shit like that. Which

1:13:30

also, I think, I gotta say, I

1:13:33

feel like he shouldn't have taken that to the moon. Why?

1:13:36

Because you were going there for the Americans, not for the explorer.

1:13:38

And now it's a little whack. It's like putting a Masonic thing out

1:13:40

there. It's like, oh, yeah. You can't have like

1:13:42

your side project here with you.

1:13:44

You're here on a business trip. It's like

1:13:45

putting your Shriners hat on Elvis if you're there for

1:13:48

the Netflix government. Yeah, it's like, no, you can't. Elvis,

1:13:50

Elvis. First of all, go on behalf

1:13:52

of the Explorers Club and the Explorers Club, you finance it.

1:13:54

You finance it. You figure it out.

1:13:55

You can't just piggyback on the Americans. Yeah,

1:13:57

I do think it's a little tasteless. Look,

1:14:00

there's only so much that video cameras could

1:14:02

get in the studio, you know what I mean? Someone should

1:14:04

shoot that man with an elephant gun! But

1:14:07

I have a little bit, I have met in

1:14:09

my life, two explorers. Really?

1:14:11

I have met two explorers.

1:14:15

Several exes ago

1:14:17

was a photographer and

1:14:19

was hired to photograph this event with

1:14:22

this couple who lived in Africa,

1:14:25

Derek and Beverly Joubert, who

1:14:27

were like lion people. I

1:14:30

went to go help out. So awful. No,

1:14:33

they weren't, no, they were preserving them. Oh.

1:14:35

Yeah, yeah. They weren't hunting lions? They

1:14:37

were doing the opposite of hunting lions.

1:14:39

Okay, you really didn't make that clear. I should have made that

1:14:41

clear. I should have made that clear. They were

1:14:43

doing the opposite, they were like lion preservationists.

1:14:46

Okay, there you go. And they lived out in a fucking

1:14:49

house they built in the trees in the middle

1:14:51

of the savannah to better

1:14:53

be among the lions. That sounds cool,

1:14:55

but very dangerous. Well, they had been, they told

1:14:58

us this, we hung out with them the whole night. Because

1:15:01

for some reason, there was a very, not a lot of people work in this event,

1:15:03

but there's a lot of people there. And

1:15:05

the guy was like this big guy with a beard and

1:15:07

like

1:15:07

a tan vest on. And like, you

1:15:09

know, sort of like, we're in a pith

1:15:11

helmet if we were anywhere else. His wife, of course, just

1:15:14

like this sort of like tough, wiry lady.

1:15:17

And they just regaled me with these

1:15:19

stories. And I was like, this is incredibly

1:15:22

been shot down. The plane had been shot down

1:15:24

by poachers at one point. She got gored

1:15:26

by a rhino.

1:15:28

It's insane. And I

1:15:30

was like, wow, this is really, this is

1:15:32

a couple who are really living. And I asked them their

1:15:34

opinion on seed oils.

1:15:36

I'm just kidding. No, I didn't do that. I would never, I

1:15:39

didn't know what those were then or now. But

1:15:42

I was, I don't think they were in the Explorers Club because

1:15:44

I think they probably take a more tender view of animals. Although

1:15:46

maybe the Explorers Club has gone woke.

1:15:48

But they were explorers.

1:15:51

And I found that very, very

1:15:53

charming and cool. Anyways,

1:15:55

back to Hamish. This guy had been exploring all over the, I

1:15:57

mean, he's been to the North East. a

1:16:00

poll with Buzz Aldrin, he set some world

1:16:02

flying record, and I gotta be honest, the Guinness, a

1:16:05

lot of people just make up new records

1:16:07

and stuff, so like, I don't really take you

1:16:09

serious, unless you beat somebody else's world

1:16:11

record, if you're setting a first time

1:16:14

world record, I don't take you that seriously.

1:16:16

No, that's bullshit. Yeah, you gotta be beating somebody else's.

1:16:19

Exactly.

1:16:19

It just takes

1:16:20

a little creativity. Precisely, Liz. And,

1:16:24

you know, he'd gone, but he'd been to the bottom of the ocean before.

1:16:26

I think he set the world record for longest

1:16:28

distance traveling along the ocean

1:16:30

floor, and he went to space

1:16:33

with Jeff Bezos. He was on that

1:16:35

space flight with Bezos.

1:16:38

And that one didn't implode. I gotta

1:16:40

be honest with you about this guy, too. What

1:16:44

a way to go out, you know? I

1:16:46

mean. Like, yes, I know it's tragic,

1:16:48

and I know it's fucked up, but like, fine,

1:16:51

it would've been more fitting if he'd gone out in

1:16:53

an experimental aircraft or something, considering

1:16:56

his obsession with the air, but if you are

1:16:58

a member of the Explorers Club, this is

1:17:00

dying in the line of duty, right?

1:17:03

And it's an honorable way to die if

1:17:06

you are of that mindset. And

1:17:08

so, like, yes, it's tragic or

1:17:10

whatever when a human being dies sometimes,

1:17:13

but in this case, it's like, yes,

1:17:15

it's, you know, sad, but

1:17:18

it's also like, that's kind of

1:17:20

a, that's a good way to go out.

1:17:23

We gotta talk about his stepson. We

1:17:25

have to talk about his stepson. So you dated

1:17:27

him. No. So

1:17:33

much attention was paid to this motherfucker through this whole event

1:17:35

that it would be, we can't not talk

1:17:38

about this kid. Yes. Brian.

1:17:41

Part of me was like, I'm not talking

1:17:43

about this kid. I'm talking about

1:17:45

this kid. I'm talking about this kid. I'm

1:17:47

talking about this kid. I'm talking about this kid.

1:17:50

I'm talking about this kid. Part

1:17:52

of me was like, is it okay? What a Brian.

1:17:54

I mean, the thing is, everything about this guy is

1:17:56

so right that...

1:17:59

If that makes sense, like he's the most stepson

1:18:02

there's ever been. Yeah. And he's,

1:18:04

what a Brian, too. I mean, I

1:18:06

didn't feel, part of me was like, I don't

1:18:08

know, like, I feel kind of bad about this. But

1:18:11

then I was, because he's Asperger's, but then

1:18:13

I was like, I actually know a lot of people with Asperger's, they've never

1:18:16

done any of this stuff. So I'm like, I think this guy

1:18:18

is just also fucked up.

1:18:20

So, to be clear, he's self-described

1:18:22

as having Asperger's. His stepfather

1:18:25

is Hamish.

1:18:27

His real father is an FBI

1:18:29

therapist.

1:18:31

Like, he was a special agent for the FBI who like, I

1:18:33

think counseled other special agents,

1:18:35

according to his LinkedIn. It lives

1:18:37

in Ohio. So Brian came

1:18:40

to people's attention because he tweeted, Liz.

1:18:42

My stepdad Hamish is on submarine

1:18:45

lost at sea. I'm devastated. But coming to

1:18:47

the San Diego show tonight so you guys can give me hope

1:18:49

and cheer me up. This

1:18:51

was directed at the band Blink 182.

1:18:57

Yeah, he tweeted something else that

1:18:59

got a lot of attention, which was, it might

1:19:01

be distasteful being here,

1:19:03

which is not a, you never want to start a statement

1:19:06

out with that, by the way. It might be

1:19:08

distasteful being here, but my family would want me

1:19:10

to be at the Blink 182 show as it's my favorite

1:19:12

band and music helps me in difficult times. Black

1:19:15

heart emoji, prayer hands.

1:19:16

The black heart emoji is crazy.

1:19:19

What circumstances do people send black heart emojis?

1:19:21

I don't know, but I feel like he's trying to do like a hardcore

1:19:24

moment. Like he's trying

1:19:26

to do like a punk moment there. Like

1:19:28

it's like black heart. Like, I don't know, maybe

1:19:30

the black heart, but I don't think the hands, because

1:19:32

Liz is doing the hands. No, I'm just doing that like for myself,

1:19:35

but the black heart is supposed to be more

1:19:37

like punk heart, like hardcore. Yeah, it's like a punk heart.

1:19:39

Yeah. For me, it's a heart with a safety pin in it

1:19:42

and a fucking girl with a mohawk giving it to

1:19:44

somebody with a fucking skin head. So

1:19:48

Cardi B shoots back at him.

1:19:53

Cardi B,

1:19:55

if I end up the show, Cardi B says,

1:19:58

basically she, I'm not going to read the quote,

1:19:59

but she basically was like, what the fuck? This is insane.

1:20:02

You're trying to get clout off your stepdad missing, which

1:20:04

yeah,

1:20:05

I mean, that's pretty much inarguable

1:20:08

there. Brian called her,

1:20:10

he fired back at Cardi B and called

1:20:12

her a clout hound who could use them class,

1:20:15

which is, I

1:20:17

think she's, I don't think Cardi B, I

1:20:19

don't think Cardi B was trying to get clout off the stepson.

1:20:21

That seems a little ridiculous to me. He

1:20:24

then spent the rest of the day responding

1:20:26

to, vigorously responding to OnlyFans

1:20:28

model's tweets, and sometimes interspersing

1:20:31

those with vague statements about praying

1:20:33

for him or his family. I mean,

1:20:36

this were girls who would post, OnlyFans

1:20:39

being like, do you want me to, what would you do

1:20:41

if I sat on your face and farted? And he's

1:20:43

like, please do. Or yum,

1:20:46

shit

1:20:46

like that.

1:20:47

And I think that, that

1:20:50

broke me, Liz. That

1:20:53

broke me, because I can't even get

1:20:56

horny when I'm hungry. And this guy

1:20:58

is like, his dad is at this point

1:21:01

missing.

1:21:01

Stepdad. Stepdad. Stepdad. Is

1:21:03

at this point missing, and he's

1:21:05

just like, those

1:21:09

paintings look fired though. I will say he

1:21:11

obviously does love Blink 182 though, because the screen

1:21:13

name is Audio Guy 182. Yes.

1:21:15

So.

1:21:17

So then I saw a tweet by sort

1:21:19

of a e-girl type pop

1:21:22

musician. I think it's safe to say. Like a pop

1:21:25

musician who you could mistake for

1:21:27

a professional Twitch streamer, and who actually might

1:21:29

be a professional Twitch streamer. And

1:21:33

the tweet says, what Liz, could you do the

1:21:35

honors?

1:21:36

Hi, the man Brian, who has a photo

1:21:38

with me where I signed his shoe. I've

1:21:40

never talked to him before in my life, other than that

1:21:42

show where I did a meet and greet. I have no

1:21:44

idea who he was until later. He's

1:21:46

been vlogged and banned from all my shows since.

1:21:50

That photo is of Brian

1:21:52

next to her,

1:21:53

and she looks uncomfortable. And he's

1:21:55

got a hover hand, probably three feet off

1:21:57

of her body.

1:21:58

But I was like, well, what? I don't understand because there's

1:22:01

no real clear She doesn't really give a lot of context for

1:22:03

it and it seems like there's people who do

1:22:05

know context responding to her so I

1:22:07

looked a little bit and

1:22:10

There's a reference multiple references that

1:22:13

he's been stalking some women and

1:22:16

then more particular

1:22:18

references in some old screenshots where

1:22:20

he's stalking particular women and Particularly

1:22:23

this one woman known an EDM artist

1:22:25

known as and what an EDM name this is

1:22:28

Allison wonderland and

1:22:31

these

1:22:32

Listen

1:22:34

We're niche micro celebs,

1:22:36

right? Sometimes people do weird things,

1:22:39

you know

1:22:40

This is crazier than yeah,

1:22:43

there's a lot of stuff I've seen freaky deaky Can

1:22:47

you read these tweets that he wrote I Got

1:22:50

a tattoo of this bitch. She fucking dissed me

1:22:52

and then he says a W clearly

1:22:55

meaning Allison wonderland Ew

1:22:58

fucking pay I will know I will show up to her LA

1:23:00

apartment I'll fucking find Allison wonderland

1:23:02

and hunt her ass down and you're like,

1:23:04

okay, maybe that's just a crazy

1:23:07

Tweet storm of anger people get frustrated

1:23:11

Okay You're

1:23:14

being very generous but understand okay But

1:23:17

no he actually got arrested for threatening to shoot

1:23:20

up an Alice in Wonderland show Yes in Las

1:23:22

Vegas, Eleni with Eleni in which I thought that

1:23:24

was a festival and I guess it's a person In 2021

1:23:26

he got arrested for yourself

1:23:28

Eleni and after will any and

1:23:30

it's also just it doesn't really Illenium sucks

1:23:32

as a name to be like Oh a millennium.

1:23:35

You're like Millennium,

1:23:38

yeah, I don't think this show is at Well,

1:23:42

you know where but it was

1:23:44

in Las Vegas and he was planning to shoot it up He

1:23:47

gets arrested for stalking and

1:23:49

harassment Goes

1:23:52

to jail

1:23:53

in San Diego and according to a lawsuit

1:23:56

was attacked by a cellmate for being possessed by the devil

1:24:00

Now, wait, attacked for

1:24:02

being possessed by the devil? The cellmate attacked Brian

1:24:05

because the cellmate believed Brian was possessed

1:24:07

by the devil. And to do, to apparently

1:24:10

exercise him, or exercise him

1:24:12

of this devilish spirit within him,

1:24:14

he beat up Brian, but he also

1:24:17

bit him very hard on the hand,

1:24:20

and that wound was infected

1:24:23

and Brian

1:24:25

subsequently claimed in his lawsuit to have gone blind

1:24:27

from that, although he apparently has fully recovered

1:24:30

his vision. But

1:24:32

he was let out of jail after

1:24:35

a couple years, so fairly recently, I believe.

1:24:37

I looked at his Facebook. He deleted his Twitter,

1:24:39

well, we'll get to that, but I looked

1:24:41

at his Facebook a long time back,

1:24:44

and he got released fairly recently because he makes

1:24:46

several posts about it. I also saw some tweets

1:24:48

by a woman being like, I just found out my stalker is

1:24:50

out of jail because his stepdad is missing on the submersible.

1:24:54

Like this is a different woman he's stalked. And

1:24:58

unfortunately, this is not his first brush with

1:25:00

the law. When he was 18, he and two

1:25:02

friends had robbed a couple of gas stations at knife point.

1:25:05

Their car later gets stuck on some train tracks,

1:25:08

and they get out of the car, call

1:25:10

a tow truck, and while they're waiting for the tow truck, the car

1:25:13

is struck by an Amtrak train, and they're

1:25:15

arrested waiting for the tow

1:25:17

truck to get there.

1:25:18

Insane. That's crazy.

1:25:22

The saga of Brian ends,

1:25:24

of course, as many online sagas

1:25:26

do,

1:25:27

with the n-word. He

1:25:29

said this,

1:25:30

quit tripping in my hood.

1:25:33

I can say beep without

1:25:35

the ER, of course. I'm down like

1:25:37

that. On the set, it

1:25:40

makes you feel bad. Yeah, that's

1:25:42

not great. No. But he

1:25:44

deleted his account, and now we never have to hear from him again.

1:25:48

No, no. I

1:25:52

would say that was a side plot

1:25:54

that kept people going. So

1:25:57

much about this story Captivated the Nation. So much about

1:25:59

this Captivated the Nation. of it in the nation, but he was a captivating figure

1:26:01

in his own right. But now,

1:26:03

as of yesterday, we were recording this on Friday,

1:26:05

it is 2.56 p.m., and the sub has been

1:26:09

declared destroyed. Yeah,

1:26:13

they seem to have, they said they found

1:26:16

debris. It's a little

1:26:18

unclear, they also say they probably knew

1:26:21

that it had imploded much earlier in the week than

1:26:23

they let on, which

1:26:25

is a little confusing to me. I mean, here's,

1:26:27

the second

1:26:30

I heard the sub was missing, I was like, it imploded.

1:26:32

Of course. Of course it imploded. I

1:26:34

mean, there was a number

1:26:37

of different, and I get it. This

1:26:39

is the sort of titillating, morbidly fascinating

1:26:41

thing about this stuff, right? Is like, I

1:26:44

think, anybody who thinks about this stuff

1:26:47

for more than five minutes, you're like, oh, this thing obviously

1:26:49

fucking imploded, right? These guys have been dead

1:26:51

this entire time. But there was all

1:26:53

of these articles coming out, and people

1:26:55

talking about this, and myself thinking

1:26:58

about it is like, I mean, the

1:26:59

alternatives are,

1:27:01

these guys are down at the bottom of the

1:27:03

ocean

1:27:04

with no lights, with

1:27:07

no heat, in

1:27:10

a bare

1:27:10

bones tube

1:27:13

with a non-working computer screen. So

1:27:16

like, in the blackest it can get on

1:27:19

Earth, right? Like, you are so far down, you

1:27:21

are enveloped in darkness, like the darkest

1:27:23

dark that you can get. And you're essentially

1:27:26

down there, freezing to death, as the

1:27:28

oxygen slowly runs out.

1:27:30

And then for some reason, people are also like, maybe they're

1:27:32

having sex with each other. Which I didn't understand,

1:27:34

because I'm like, dude. Well, there's a Frenchman.

1:27:37

That's true, but the only thing worse than being stuck in

1:27:40

a submarine, slowly suffocating

1:27:42

at the bottom of the ocean, is also for some

1:27:44

reason, fucking a 55-year-old

1:27:46

dude at the same time. Yeah,

1:27:47

I mean, obviously they would probably

1:27:50

just be like, getting the anxiety out another

1:27:52

way. Yeah, by killing the guy

1:27:54

who, by killing Mr.

1:27:56

Rush. And I think there was

1:27:58

this like,

1:27:59

I admit, I

1:28:02

thought about it too. It's like you think

1:28:04

what would you feel like in that situation. I

1:28:06

kept thinking like you're hour 30, right?

1:28:09

At some point you sort of pass out from exhaustion. There's

1:28:11

probably not really any food in there. There's no seats.

1:28:13

We know there's no food because they only brought a couple sandwiches

1:28:15

and a little bit of water. Yeah, oh, the

1:28:18

water thing, that's crazy. Definitely. You

1:28:21

do not wanna be in a water water all around, but not a drop

1:28:23

to drink situation. Never wanna be in a not

1:28:25

a drop to drink. Yeah, you'd never wanna be in that situation.

1:28:29

Yeah, I imagine them. It's the same reason that

1:28:31

I was really obsessed with the alive plane

1:28:33

crash when I was younger and read that book like six

1:28:35

times because it's just like, it's

1:28:38

so horrible to think about, you

1:28:40

know? And it's such an extraordinarily

1:28:43

excruciating way to die

1:28:46

that I think that is really, people tried

1:28:48

to pretend like it was like,

1:28:50

oh, I'm thinking

1:28:52

about this new story because it's billionaires. Or I'm

1:28:54

thinking about this new story because it

1:28:57

says a lot about our society. But no,

1:29:00

the reason that anyone's thinking about the new story is because

1:29:02

it's fucking crazy. And there's

1:29:04

a potentially one of the most inventively

1:29:07

torturous ways to die possible that

1:29:09

is occurring

1:29:11

and a race against time to save that.

1:29:14

But that's not what happened. No,

1:29:16

it's not what happened. The US

1:29:18

Navy, like you said, I mean, like new from

1:29:20

the get-go, right? It seems like it, yeah.

1:29:23

Or at least a lot, it seems like they knew much

1:29:25

earlier than they announced. Which maybe had

1:29:28

something to do with notifying the families

1:29:30

and trying to keep some of their stuff,

1:29:33

you know, some bit of privacy for

1:29:35

them.

1:29:36

But it seems that they knew pretty

1:29:39

early on that this thing just

1:29:41

imploded. Maybe they were looking for

1:29:44

confirmation, physical confirmation,

1:29:46

finding some debris, which it sounds like they

1:29:48

did. But this thing,

1:29:50

the Titan imploded

1:29:53

basically pretty much when it lost contact.

1:29:56

Yeah, so you can

1:29:58

hour and a half into the ship. the

1:30:00

voyage. There

1:30:05

seemed to have been some confusion, which

1:30:10

you

1:30:10

brought my attention to, about the difference

1:30:12

between an explosion and an implosion,

1:30:15

which I found surprising that there was some confusion

1:30:17

there. To

1:30:20

be generous again to that person

1:30:22

who seems to be confused about that, there

1:30:26

is a bit of a kind of reversal situation.

1:30:30

And I think it's because the idea of being trapped

1:30:32

under the sea is excruciating to think about.

1:30:35

I mean, terrifying.

1:30:36

And

1:30:40

the fact that it could end

1:30:42

with your insides basically deciding to

1:30:44

become

1:30:44

your outsides. In a full

1:30:47

reversal. What

1:30:50

are you doing out there? It's

1:30:55

such a morbidly, fascinating, crazy way to fucking die.

1:31:00

To basically have your body explode.

1:31:05

That's the

1:31:08

complicated thing about this too. There is

1:31:10

explosions happening, but they're caused

1:31:12

by an implosion. Everybody

1:31:16

knows, and I want to preface this with what I was saying,

1:31:20

I'm not a science fucking guy,

1:31:21

but I am scared of pressure. Because

1:31:25

I always, on fucking flights, not always, but this is happening many

1:31:27

times on flights, is

1:31:30

like they're into the scent, I guess I'll have my mouth closed or something,

1:31:35

and my ears won't pop for like hours. And

1:31:40

that's because of the rapid

1:31:42

change in pressurization. And

1:31:45

the way your body responds. I

1:31:48

don't think my body responds well to the

1:31:50

physical pressure around me changing. And

1:31:53

so you'll never catch my ass going up to

1:31:54

fucking Everest. I

1:31:57

don't like to be under pressure.

1:32:02

Not for me! But,

1:32:04

so I know a little bit about the

1:32:07

way that it works under the ocean because I've

1:32:09

always been scared of it, but also I've been

1:32:11

fascinated by submarines. Because

1:32:13

they're

1:32:13

fucking crazy. But also

1:32:15

because you're tortured and fascinated

1:32:17

by that which scares you. That's

1:32:19

true. That's why like, yes, it's

1:32:22

true. And so. It's a, you know, you

1:32:24

fear and love that, you know what I

1:32:27

mean, it's the same. I don't love it. Well,

1:32:29

you're drawn to it. I am drawn to it,

1:32:31

yes. And that's the kind of love. Well, sort of drawn to it so I

1:32:33

can go draw myself further away from

1:32:35

it. Well, yes and no. So the

1:32:37

Titan is designed

1:32:40

to. Well, let's use that word loosely.

1:32:42

It's theoretically supposed to be able

1:32:44

to go like over 12,500 feet down, right? No

1:32:47

way. That's like where the Titanic is. Oh, no, it

1:32:49

has been down there. It did, but I would not know. It's

1:32:51

sort of the. I would say it's designed to do that. It's sort of the disposable

1:32:53

situation kind of going on there. Branson

1:32:56

style. Yeah. Down there, the

1:32:58

pressure is over 400 times

1:33:00

what it is on the surface. And I could give you all kinds

1:33:02

of like, you know, this is the equivalent of that.

1:33:05

It's like having a fuck. Just imagine

1:33:06

apartment buildings on top of you. You know what

1:33:08

I mean? Like it's fucking houses

1:33:11

on top of you getting switched like a bug. But this is like, this

1:33:13

is a massive, massive pressure coming

1:33:15

at this vessel from all sides. So

1:33:18

any small defect in that sub, a sub,

1:33:20

which as you are well aware

1:33:23

is basically made out of like, you

1:33:25

know, the self help section or the do it yourself

1:33:27

section like a Walmart.

1:33:29

Any small defect in that

1:33:31

could lead to catastrophic failure,

1:33:34

right? If the, if the pressure from

1:33:36

the outside gets into the inside,

1:33:39

which is pressurized,

1:33:40

you know, obviously very differently than

1:33:42

that, that shit will essentially

1:33:45

collapse in on itself. Yeah. And

1:33:49

that is basically what happened,

1:33:52

right? So like that is like, it'll like, it's the

1:33:54

same kind of thing as like the thresher, right? Like

1:33:56

eventually like the pressure

1:33:58

from the outside will get in.

1:33:59

and there will just be an implosion, it'll sink in

1:34:02

on itself. And this happens so,

1:34:04

so, so, so, so quickly, right? The

1:34:06

good thing is, is these guys probably had no

1:34:08

idea that it was happening. The scary thing to think

1:34:10

about is there might have been a sign, although

1:34:13

they didn't give any indication of the surface, but like, it

1:34:15

could have been like, hey,

1:34:17

there's something going on in this seal over

1:34:19

here, and then you have that fear,

1:34:22

knowing that you can do nothing about it and

1:34:24

that you are going to die in a crazy

1:34:27

motherfucking way very soon, and you

1:34:29

have to sit with that for three or four minutes, like

1:34:31

the guys on the Thresher did, but it's

1:34:33

neither here nor there.

1:34:34

So what it does, it will collapse in on itself, like, you

1:34:37

know, like, kind of like when you step on a beer can

1:34:39

or something like that. The way

1:34:41

it happens to your bodies, and this is happening the same instant,

1:34:44

is essentially your body is

1:34:46

disintegrated, because it's crushed

1:34:49

by the pressure there. I

1:34:51

mean,

1:34:51

other stuff happens, you know, it's disintegrates

1:34:54

in different ways, depending on the air, where the air is, and all

1:34:56

that stuff, but like, your body is essentially

1:34:59

made into dust, as far as I know, from

1:35:01

an incident like this. These guys' bodies will

1:35:03

not be recovered. I mean, maybe some parts

1:35:06

of their bodies will, because you kind of explode,

1:35:08

the air can also light on fire, which I think that

1:35:10

was probably too small a vessel for that to happen in

1:35:12

here, but like, it fucks

1:35:15

your shit up. There's

1:35:17

another, there's a sort of, I

1:35:19

mean, there's the famous, what's the Nutty Putty Cave, where

1:35:21

the guy was hanging down for like 20 hours while

1:35:25

he slowly died, or the rescue teams couldn't get him out, or

1:35:27

whatever. I mean, that's one of those stories that like, a lot of people know,

1:35:29

because it's this horrible story, you

1:35:32

sort of imagine yourself in that situation, and then

1:35:34

you take yourself out of that, and you're glad it never happened

1:35:36

to you. The situation that keeps

1:35:38

getting brought up in reference to

1:35:42

a

1:35:43

death by decompression,

1:35:46

this, although this wouldn't have happened on the sub, is

1:35:49

this story called the Bifur, well, it's about the Bifur

1:35:51

Dolphin Accent, something I've known about for a little

1:35:53

while, because I've known actually a saturation

1:35:56

diver. He wasn't the person who told me about it, but

1:35:58

I've known what saturation diving is for a while.

1:35:59

Looked you know I've looked

1:36:02

at it as sort of out of morbid curiosity because you

1:36:04

know freaks me out It's one of those things that I don't want to go

1:36:06

down there So an 83 for

1:36:09

saturation divers and one crewman died

1:36:11

aboard an oil rig. I think off of Norway

1:36:13

and You know the

1:36:15

saturation diving is you know you

1:36:17

you know have you ever dove

1:36:19

before Liz? No, never you're not scuba licensed

1:36:22

No, never I would never do that. I

1:36:25

can't do that cuz they're all glasses. You

1:36:27

need like special ones to do. Yeah

1:36:29

I have a friend who did though who does it it

1:36:32

seems scary to me Yeah, but you go down

1:36:34

to the bottom and then you know your body's

1:36:36

great swimmer. You are I'm

1:36:39

a good swimmer, too We should race I would

1:36:41

be you you probably beat me I feel like you'd be my

1:36:44

great to me be life, but I'm just completely here.

1:36:46

I was a competitive swimmer you were mm-hmm Not

1:36:48

me. There

1:36:49

was no competition You

1:36:52

know the thing is with saturation Diving is you go to the bottom

1:36:55

and it's called saturation diving because your blood gets

1:36:57

saturated with nitrogen

1:36:59

and like it It you

1:37:01

know you sort of adjust to the pressure down there and

1:37:03

usually what they would have to do is they would have to like

1:37:05

you When you when you resurface you have

1:37:07

to take these little breaks on the way up so that your blood

1:37:09

can adjust to the pressure

1:37:11

And so like these air these air bubbles like

1:37:13

we're talking about before with the bends So you

1:37:15

don't get the bends because that can be very fatal

1:37:17

especially when you're you know just Sort

1:37:20

of free in the water, right? What

1:37:23

these guys with saturation divers was is they

1:37:25

do they stay the whole month in these hyperbaric chambers?

1:37:28

above a vessel or above or excuse

1:37:30

me a board of vessel or a board an oil rig

1:37:32

and then they're lowered down to the bottom

1:37:36

in a Diving bell that is pressurized

1:37:38

the same way as that chamber the same way the same way the

1:37:40

diving bell the same way as the bottom So you basically

1:37:42

spend the entire month with the

1:37:44

pressure that you would feel at the bottom and

1:37:46

these guys aren't going like Titanic level But they're

1:37:48

going pretty far down there So in order to

1:37:50

save like all this time going back up and repressurize

1:37:53

it because this takes a long time You

1:37:55

sort of save that for a period at the end of

1:37:58

the month,

1:37:59

so you spend 30 days doing this kind of locked in these

1:38:01

little chambers on top of inside

1:38:03

an oil rig. You also talk

1:38:05

all fucked up because the you don't just breathe

1:38:07

oxygen you breathe sort of a gas mixture that includes

1:38:10

helium so you talk

1:38:11

in helium voice

1:38:14

and I mean I've seen a lot of videos I mean

1:38:16

these guys like post videos and stuff all the time and like

1:38:18

they all talk in this sort of chipmunk voices when

1:38:20

they need to communicate with the vessels they use a voice modulator

1:38:22

which I think is really funny like a Darth Vader voice

1:38:25

deepener. But within

1:38:27

this particular incident and this is also

1:38:29

like all the other accidents we've

1:38:31

talked about with depressurization happened

1:38:34

because of cutting costs and because of safety

1:38:36

regulations being laxed these

1:38:38

four guys are in their hyperbaric chambers

1:38:41

two of them are about to descend two of them are resting and

1:38:45

there is the diving

1:38:47

bell sort of comes loose before it's

1:38:49

supposed to and not everything sealed

1:38:52

and so the immense

1:38:54

change in pressure has catastrophic

1:38:58

effects on everybody I mean it's explosive

1:39:00

decompression so what happens is

1:39:02

is that the diving bell shoots out

1:39:04

and this is a giant fucking massive

1:39:07

heavy metal thing immediately kills a crew

1:39:09

member really fucks another one up it

1:39:11

sucks one of the divers through a 24 inch

1:39:14

hole

1:39:15

the man was

1:39:17

substantially larger than 24 inches around

1:39:20

and the guys you know his organs ended

1:39:22

up basically outside of his body perfectly preserved because

1:39:24

it essentially bisected him the other

1:39:26

four people or the excuse me the other three divers

1:39:29

their blood literally flash

1:39:31

boiled in their bodies and they died

1:39:33

it was the one of the

1:39:35

worst decompression accidents I mean

1:39:38

certainly the one of the most horrific ones I've you know you can look

1:39:40

at some of the pictures don't do this but

1:39:42

there are pictures of the bodies afterwards it

1:39:44

is fucking insane it's one of the

1:39:46

most nightmarish ways to die you blood literally boils

1:39:48

in your body and that is all to

1:39:50

say like this

1:39:51

is not stuff to fuck

1:39:53

around with like if you're

1:39:55

a guy who owns a submarine company

1:39:58

and you're cutting costs and you're being innovative

1:40:01

in this way, you're not fucking around with like,

1:40:05

this is a new way to order

1:40:08

food online. You're fucking

1:40:10

around with forces like this that can make your blood

1:40:12

boil in your body.

1:40:16

You're fucking around with horrors beyond

1:40:18

my comprehension.

1:40:23

Basically what Stockton Rush did

1:40:25

here.

1:40:25

Yeah, like I said, no appropriate

1:40:27

fear, no respect. No respect for

1:40:30

it. No respect for the reality. Yeah,

1:40:32

and like, I'm just, you know, my word of advice

1:40:34

to listeners out there, if you're ever in a situation

1:40:36

where you own a company that has the possibility

1:40:38

that if your shit fucks up someone's blood flash

1:40:40

boils in their body, I think you should really

1:40:44

try to get that licensed by

1:40:46

somebody. Yeah.

1:40:48

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:52

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:55

Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:58

You know, some people say that octopi are

1:41:00

the aliens of the sea, that they're

1:41:02

actually aliens, but they're in the ocean. Oh, cause

1:41:05

they're smart or whatever. They're so fucking smart.

1:41:07

But like, how smart are they? Octopus

1:41:11

is so smart that, no,

1:41:14

but they are really smart. You know, a lot of them will kill

1:41:16

themselves in captivity.

1:41:18

That sounds, okay, well that

1:41:20

sounds stupid. Why? Cause

1:41:22

most prisoners just live in captivity. Maybe they get out, what do

1:41:24

they

1:41:24

know? I agree that suicide is a very stupid

1:41:27

thing to do. People always say

1:41:29

that about animals, like pigs are smart. Like, well, can it read?

1:41:32

No, but no one's taught it. But like, could

1:41:34

I teach it to read? I don't know, I think you should try. Coco?

1:41:37

Coco. Coco's ass was faking it. Everyone

1:41:40

knows that now, but. Oh, Coco the

1:41:42

gorilla. That was a mass delusion for a while. You

1:41:44

think?

1:41:45

Yeah, definitely yes. Watch

1:41:48

Coco again, cause Coco was saying way more complex

1:41:51

stuff than you might remember. Coco wasn't just like, give

1:41:53

me nut.

1:41:53

I think that we had to watch the Coco stuff in

1:41:55

that funny theology class I had with the alcoholic.

1:41:58

Like, well, I don't know. What side

1:42:00

were they taking there? Were they like gorillas

1:42:03

or angels? It was like a gorillas in

1:42:05

the mist situation. Well,

1:42:08

huh? I forgot, but I was wondering

1:42:10

if you could remember, we didn't talk about this on

1:42:12

our little naval gazing episode,

1:42:15

or 300th episode.

1:42:16

What? I was thinking

1:42:18

back to all my favorite moments. Remember

1:42:20

the kumas in the mist? Yes,

1:42:23

yes, that was an early episode. Are

1:42:25

you doing again? Kumas

1:42:27

in the mist. Kumas in

1:42:29

the mist. Kumas in the mist.

1:42:33

Kumas in the mist. I

1:42:35

can't remember how to do it. We need an underwater version.

1:42:38

I

1:42:38

don't remember. Ooh. Ooh.

1:42:41

Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

1:42:44

Ooh.

1:42:44

Ooh. Ooh.

1:42:46

How far would you go down there? I don't

1:42:48

know. It's like a pool. A hundred, I think

1:42:50

nine feet. Twelve feet, maybe some of the bigger ones. Yeah. Fourteen

1:42:53

feet. What about an infinity pool? I've gone

1:42:55

pretty. I'm trying to think of when I was swimming, like we

1:42:57

would go pretty deep. I don't

1:43:01

know. I think I could do like 30 feet. You could do 30. I'm

1:43:03

not going down more than 30. But I don't really want to. Also,

1:43:06

I don't love like ocean. I mean, I like

1:43:08

a sea. I love the ocean. I love the ocean.

1:43:10

No, no, no. I like a sea. I

1:43:12

don't like an ocean. I love the infinite expanse

1:43:15

of the ocean. But I'm saying I don't want

1:43:17

to be in the Atlantic. But

1:43:19

I would love to be in the Mediterranean. Like put me in the

1:43:21

Pacific. Atlantic I feel like is evil.

1:43:23

The Pacific? Well, I've never been like in I

1:43:26

mean besides like no, but I used to

1:43:28

walk down like every night and like look at the

1:43:30

Pacific and oh, yeah, like but you wouldn't

1:43:32

be like in the middle of it. No, I couldn't but I thought

1:43:34

I would dream of and then I got my Hawaii

1:43:37

sounds and I got my merchant marine license. But then

1:43:39

the podcast derailed my dreams,

1:43:42

but no all good. I'll get new ones all

1:43:44

good though. It's all good. Well,

1:43:46

you guys are my dream. My

1:43:49

god, that is a nightmare.

1:43:51

I want to make one more point. I

1:43:53

think there is a tendency

1:43:55

when stories like this happen for

1:43:58

everybody to try to shoehorn their stupid.