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Hello, I'm Emma

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Before we dive in, this week's

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episode is brought to you by my

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emmadhesi.com/30 Top Tips. Okay,

1:46

let's dive in to today's

1:46

episode, Stephanie Bwabwa began

1:49

her journey to publishing in

1:49

2013. In 2016, her fantasy world

1:55

Elledelle was born. In 2017, she

1:55

published her first two books,

2:00

and since then she has gone on

2:00

to write and publish fantasy

2:03

novels centered around black

2:03

angels in a supernatural world

2:07

that are captivating readers all

2:07

around the world. As the CEO and

2:12

founder of Bwabs collective LLC,

2:12

Bwabwa has focused her zone of

2:17

genius on teaching

2:17

unconventional principles to

2:19

writers who liked to

2:19

meticulously plot, research and

2:23

organize their way through

2:23

crafting their stories while

2:27

also having an incredible amount

2:27

of fun. Stephanie has authored

2:32

why a fantasy series, The

2:32

Seraphim Resistance Prequels,

2:36

and is an avid reader of fantasy

2:36

and fiction. So let's find out a

2:40

little bit more about how you

2:40

can world build with Stephanie

2:43

BwaBwa. Well, Stephanie, thank

2:43

you so so much for being here

2:47

with me today. I'm delighted to

2:47

finally meet you and get

2:50

chatting to you.

2:52

Yes, no, I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

2:55

A pleasure, a

2:55

pleasure. Now for our listeners,

2:57

I wonder if you wouldn't mind

2:57

just kind of letting us know a

3:00

little bit about you and how you

3:00

got to where you are today?

3:05

Yeah, no. So

3:05

hey, guys. Um, so for me, I have

3:09

been a lifelong reader first,

3:09

um, since I was a child. And I

3:14

think for a lot of us, it starts

3:14

off that way, where even in

3:18

childhood, we were readers. And

3:18

I can remember, you know, I tell

3:22

this story sometimes where, you

3:22

know, when I was a little girl,

3:25

my mom used to buy like the

3:25

really big picture books. So

3:30

like, for example, I had

3:30

Goldilocks and three bears. And

3:33

so you could open it up and like

3:33

the bears would pop up and

3:36

Goldilocks would pop up and then

3:36

there would be this, like, you

3:39

know, like animation in the 90s

3:39

in the book, right? It's and so,

3:43

um, since I was a child, I loved

3:43

reading and I started off with

3:48

fiction, um, especially when I

3:48

got to around like nine, eight

3:51

years old I remember distinctly

3:51

reading the Roald Dahl books and

3:56

so like twitches and Matilda,

3:56

and then I got into like Judy

4:00

Blume and all of these different

4:00

kinds of stories that are very

4:03

nostalgic for me. And I love

4:03

them so very, very much I very

4:09

quickly leaned more towards like

4:09

fiction, and then bit by bit I

4:13

got towards fantasy, but I

4:13

picked up somewhere around like

4:18

nine or 10 I picked up a series

4:18

of unfortunate events by Lemony

4:22

Snicket, and that was like the

4:22

deep dive. I fell in love with

4:27

that story. And I remember

4:27

somewhere along like around

4:31

there, I was like, Oh, I would

4:31

love to do that one day, you

4:33

know, like, I just thought they

4:33

were so cool. The stories I

4:37

found them hilarious, the baby

4:37

was always my favorite. And you

4:42

know and then going into like a

4:42

middle school years I did you

4:45

know, I would write like poetry.

4:45

I had like a hard time during

4:49

those years and so a lot of ways

4:49

for me to release was actually

4:52

writing and so sometimes it

4:52

would be poetry. Sometimes I

4:55

would just make up stories.

4:55

Sometimes I would have them in

4:59

my head. Since I would write

4:59

them down. But it's really

5:01

around middle school high school

5:01

years, I got into fantasy. First

5:06

I think I started off with like,

5:06

I did do some epic fantasy, but

5:10

a lot of it was also like urban.

5:10

So I read the like, I believe

5:15

it's the Blue Bloods series. And

5:15

then like, I would read The

5:18

Mortal Instruments by Cassandra

5:18

Clare, that was my favorite

5:20

series. And The Mortal

5:20

Instruments actually is the

5:24

reason why I, I really wanted to

5:24

become a writer, and I purposed

5:29

in my heart that I thought,

5:29

okay, one day, I'm going to do

5:32

this thing, I loved that series,

5:32

so very much. And so, in 2013,

5:38

finally, I decided that I wanted

5:38

to write a book for actually

5:43

publishing. Um, you know,

5:43

throughout, you know, my

5:47

childhood years into my teen

5:47

years, I would write, but I

5:49

didn't really do anything

5:49

seriously with it. And I read a

5:52

lot, a lot of books, you know,

5:52

reading was escapism for me,

5:55

especially fantasy, because you

5:55

could go to a completely

5:58

different world, these crazy

5:58

characters, and this really

6:02

awesome journey. A lot of them

6:02

were quests, and I love the plot

6:06

twists, I love the characters, I

6:06

love the different worlds. And I

6:08

was like, wow, I want to do

6:08

something like that. And so in

6:11

2013, actually, um, so for those

6:11

who don't know, you know, I am

6:16

of the Christian faith. And so,

6:16

I reached, I reached another low

6:21

in life. And so instead of

6:21

praying out loud, I started

6:23

writing my prayers. And I was

6:23

writing out my prayers and poems

6:28

at first, like they were just,

6:28

you know, they came out that

6:30

way. Mom was like, oh, my

6:30

goodness, this is awesome. You

6:32

should publish it. And I was

6:32

like, it's why would I do that?

6:36

I don't, I don't know. I wasn't

6:36

really sure. I was like, okay,

6:40

maybe. Somewhere along the way,

6:40

in January of 2013, not only was

6:47

I writing these prayers, within,

6:47

like, this character popped into

6:50

my head of this girl, she's in

6:50

California, they're not far from

6:54

the Hollywood sign. And like, I

6:54

could see the neighborhood. And

6:57

so I start, like doing research

6:57

on like, schools in that area,

7:00

and like ice cream shops, and

7:00

all these different things and

7:03

then I got this idea of like,

7:03

oh, what have what would happen,

7:06

you know, if this girl goes through, like all these different things, she's raised

7:08

in faith. And after going

7:11

through these hardships, she

7:11

starts to lose her faith. And

7:13

all of a sudden, this like, God,

7:13

like celestial character shows

7:18

up and takes her on this like

7:18

trip into paradise to show her

7:21

what's on the other side of

7:21

eternity, so to speak. And that

7:25

was like my first journey into

7:25

actually writing a fantasy

7:29

novel, which actually ended up

7:29

being an urban fantasy, but

7:32

writing a fantasy novel for

7:32

publish. And it was really just

7:35

this journey of like this girl

7:35

who was raised in church, but

7:38

then she like started to turn

7:38

away from it. She didn't want

7:40

anything to do with that faith

7:40

anymore. And she gets this

7:43

journey. And so she's taken into

7:43

this, like celestial paradise.

7:46

And she sees all of these

7:46

different things that she was

7:49

raised with, but she didn't

7:49

believe in until she saw it with

7:52

her very, her very own eyes. And

7:52

then like towards the the end of

7:56

the book, she's taken all the

7:56

way back to the crucifixion. And

7:58

she sees it in like a real time

7:58

before she's been brought back

8:02

into her worlds in California.

8:02

So it was just like, very

8:05

magical, otherworldly story. And

8:05

that was really my first foot,

8:11

you know, my first dip into

8:11

actually writing for publishing

8:15

and like wanting to tell these,

8:15

you know, fantastical stories

8:20

and, you know, it was important

8:20

to me, I mean, I love all kinds

8:23

of stories. But fantasy, for

8:23

some reason always stuck with

8:26

me. This ability to have this

8:26

like parallel world and

8:30

universal completely different

8:30

characters and beings and

8:34

putting a character in a

8:34

situation where they can be in

8:37

something totally different. But

8:37

yet their condition, the

8:39

condition of their heart is

8:39

still very much like the human

8:42

condition. And so you can still

8:42

relate to those characters, even

8:45

though it's completely

8:45

fantastical world. So that's how

8:48

I got into writing lifelong

8:48

reader and writer, I guess you

8:53

could say, but I didn't really

8:53

start writing for publishing

8:55

until 2013.

8:56

Wow, there's so much

8:56

in there just in that alone to

9:00

kind of like unpick a little

9:00

bit. So 2013 and I'm just

9:05

looking at you, you look very

9:05

young. So I'm guessing at 2013

9:08

you were even younger? How old

9:08

were you published your first

9:11

book?

9:12

Um, so when I

9:12

published my first book when I

9:16

was 20? That's a great question.

9:16

21, 22 around there around there

9:21

is, I think. Remember the dates

9:21

and all that was I wasn't around

9:26

there the early 20s.

9:28

A young but not as young as I thought you must be you. You're aging. Well, you're

9:29

looking very. Thank you. And,

9:36

but also, I'd love the year, not

9:36

enough, but I appreciate that

9:40

your first book came out of a

9:40

difficult kind of period in your

9:45

life. And that certainly was the

9:45

case for myself. I was going

9:48

through a period of depression

9:48

and I was journaling about it

9:51

trying to figure out what was

9:51

going on. And that kind of

9:54

situation was brought up about

9:54

brought up that idea. Well what

9:59

if what if What if, and then I

9:59

could kind of bring it into my

10:02

fiction. And it's interesting, I

10:02

think how sometimes a difficult

10:07

time in our life that we might

10:07

ordinarily add, the moment feels

10:11

really insurmountable. We don't

10:11

realize actually, that can be

10:14

the trigger for something, and

10:14

you have a new path for us and

10:18

you challenge for us or a new

10:18

new part of our life, and

10:21

something good can collide to them.

10:23

Yeah, no, I

10:23

totally agree. And I Oh, I like

10:26

to encourage people to lean into

10:26

those times. It can be a

10:31

solitary time, it can be very

10:31

difficult. But so much beauty

10:36

can come from ashes. And it's

10:36

one of those things where if

10:39

you're willing to let yourself

10:39

face it, you can actually birth

10:43

a lot of art from it. Because at

10:43

the end of the day, our

10:47

characters mirror who we are,

10:47

right, even though whether they

10:50

are fake vampire, Angel doesn't

10:50

matter. Regardless, the story is

10:55

very much a mirrors the human

10:55

condition, it mirrors the human

10:59

experience and hardship is part

10:59

of that experience. And there's

11:03

some darkness and there's some,

11:03

you know, loneliness and

11:06

depression, and, you know, self

11:06

doubt. And so characters, you

11:09

know, if you're able to go

11:09

through that, is it easy, no,

11:13

but it does make you better, and

11:13

it makes you better for the

11:15

story, because then you can go

11:15

to the pages with a fresh

11:19

understanding of, Okay, this is

11:19

how a character would actually

11:23

face this, you know, they might

11:23

take a little bit longer to

11:27

process, they might react in

11:27

certain ways, they might have to

11:30

go through a journey where, you

11:30

know, they are dealing with

11:33

what's inside. And they're also

11:33

being affected by what's

11:36

outside. And they have to figure

11:36

out how to face that, you know,

11:39

and so at the end of the day,

11:39

you know, our fiction and

11:42

fantasy stories, they really

11:42

mirror what we deal with, in

11:45

reality, and it's also a gateway

11:45

for both us and our readers, to

11:50

figure out how to process what

11:50

we are witnessing and facing in

11:54

real life through the lens of

11:54

these characters in their

11:57

journeys,

11:58

We should be said, I

11:58

love that what you said there,

12:01

just so much beauty can come

12:01

from, from ashes. It's very

12:05

lovely. You also mentioned just

12:05

there in your introduction, that

12:09

you mentioned that faith is a

12:09

big part of your life. And I was

12:14

kind of like, wow, as well, when

12:14

you were telling us about your

12:17

story. You don't shy away from

12:17

the big things like the

12:19

crucifixion and the

12:19

resurrection. And so does your

12:23

faith and Christianity. Is that

12:23

a common theme to all your

12:26

stories? And it just happened to

12:26

be that that one?

12:30

So in that one

12:30

book, I love this question. So

12:33

and that one book, it's more

12:33

prevalent. Because I mean, I

12:39

only have like the one ideal in

12:39

my head, I didn't really and at

12:42

that time, I will let me go

12:42

ahead and put out this

12:44

disclaimer. So I didn't really

12:44

know what I was doing. I just

12:46

knew that I had a character my

12:46

you know, newbie writer right at

12:50

that time. So like, I had no

12:50

idea what I was doing, and not a

12:52

lick or clue about story

12:52

structure, and none of this

12:55

stuff. And so I was like, oh,

12:55

wow, character, my head. And I'm

12:58

like, I know, I want her to go

12:58

to some version of heaven, you

13:00

know, that I can envision in my

13:00

head. And I want her to see the

13:03

proof of crucifixion and I want

13:03

her to come back to Earth. Okay,

13:05

cool. down, and I wrote it and

13:05

like, that's all I had. But then

13:09

like, looking back in hindsight,

13:09

I was like, well shoot, you

13:12

know, like, I don't know how to

13:12

make this story go anywhere

13:14

else. And I don't really, there

13:14

were just a lot of different

13:18

elements. I was like, Oh, this

13:18

could have been so much better

13:21

if I really knew what I was

13:21

doing. And so faith is a huge

13:26

part of my, all of my stories.

13:26

Granted, you know, if you just

13:31

read them as they are, even if

13:31

you're not a person of faith,

13:35

it's still an entertaining

13:35

story. And it's so has really

13:38

good values and lessons to learn

13:38

from it. And you won't

13:41

necessarily be like, Oh, you can

13:41

pick that out from like, the

13:43

Bible or something in the books.

13:43

But if you are a person of

13:47

faith, like if you are a

13:47

Christian, and you read the

13:49

books, you're like, oh, okay, I

13:49

get where she got this from. And

13:52

so as you know, and it's and

13:52

it's down to little things,

13:56

right? So like in my Sarah from

13:56

resistance prequel books, you

14:01

know, the I have four different

14:01

classes. So all of my characters

14:04

are angels, and I have four

14:04

different classes of angels in

14:06

that particular world. And one

14:06

of them so there's from the

14:10

highest ones, they can like shed

14:10

their physical fleshly bodies,

14:14

like we would have, like mortal

14:14

bodies for their actual power.

14:17

So their real bodies are

14:17

actually the element that they

14:20

wield, whether that be fire,

14:20

water, earth, anything like

14:23

that. And so, you know, the term

14:23

for that is their Genesis forms.

14:27

Now, if you're not a person of

14:27

faith, you're like, Okay, well,

14:30

you know, that's cool. I mean,

14:30

that's a really interesting

14:33

name. But if you are a person,

14:33

if you're like genesis for Oh, I

14:36

get it, the first got it, you

14:36

know, the beginning, that type

14:39

of thing. So it's one of those

14:39

things where it's like the, you

14:42

know, thread of faith is in

14:42

there. If you're not looking for

14:45

it, you won't find it, you'll

14:45

still enjoy the books. You are

14:48

looking for it. You will find it

14:48

and be pleased. And so, but

14:51

yeah, it is something that I

14:51

weave in a lot just because I'm

14:56

at the end of the day, I really

14:56

want to give readers hope. Want

15:00

to give readers inspiration, I

15:00

want readers to see that

15:05

regardless of how dark it can

15:05

be, there is always the

15:09

opportunity to overcome and

15:09

there's always good at the end,

15:12

you know, and I know we live in

15:12

a day and age where a lot of

15:15

stories are coming out, where

15:15

evil tends to, like, get the

15:18

last laugh, you know, for all of

15:18

you Game of Thrones lovers, no

15:23

shade, no tea, but you know, by

15:23

all means, absolutely love it.

15:26

But, you know, for me, I'm like,

15:26

your God, you know, like, like,

15:30

give me some kind of hope that I

15:30

can clink. Know what I mean. And

15:34

so, um, I do try to leave in

15:34

like, a lot of goodness, even

15:40

now, granted, you know, the

15:40

characters go through a lot. The

15:44

characters face a lot, like, I

15:44

won't even like hide them from

15:47

you, they do deal with a lot to

15:47

the point where readers are

15:50

like, I want to protect these

15:50

characters from you. But, um,

15:55

it's all for a greater purpose.

15:55

So, yeah, that that thread

15:59

definitely does flow through the

15:59

books and in and it's good for

16:03

me, because I have like that

16:03

foundation point. So I know,

16:06

like, what I'm aiming for, and I

16:06

kind of have an anchor when I'm

16:10

writing, you know, like, what

16:10

the overall purpose of the story

16:13

needs to be.

16:14

Oh, interesting. I

16:14

think there'll be a lot of

16:17

listeners who, well, I know the

16:17

right number of listeners, you

16:20

all who are Christian writers,

16:20

as well. So there'll be

16:22

interested in that aspect of

16:22

your books and how, how you

16:26

bring that incorporation. And so

16:26

there'll be interested in that.

16:29

Now, we're going to come back to

16:29

your stories in just a moment.

16:32

But I wanted just to ask you

16:32

about the practical side,

16:36

because you are your full time

16:36

writer, you're very busy,

16:39

because you're running three

16:39

businesses at different times

16:43

you have done and I'm sure will,

16:43

again, be hosting your podcast.

16:48

And so you've got lots of things

16:48

going on in your life. And I

16:51

wonder just how you, you balance

16:51

the demands of all the things

16:55

that are going on? And how also

16:55

you make that switch in brain

17:00

from doing one type of role to

17:00

another type of role to another

17:03

type of role?

17:05

Yeah, that's a

17:05

really great question and so the

17:08

first thing I will say is, and I

17:08

got this from my business

17:12

mentor, she says that balance is

17:12

bogus. And I can't that I want

17:19

100,000% agree. Balance is

17:19

bogus. Like there, there is no

17:25

such thing, right? It's a matter

17:25

of knowing in every season, what

17:29

is the priority, right? What is

17:29

the goal? What is what will move

17:32

the needle? What can your spirit

17:32

handle at that time, right, what

17:37

is important to you. And so, for

17:37

example, if you are about to get

17:42

married, right, you can't turn

17:42

out three, four books a year,

17:48

because a lot of your focus a

17:48

lot of your income is going into

17:51

getting things ready for this

17:51

wedding, getting things ready

17:54

for, you know, your honeymoon,

17:54

getting things ready for the new

17:57

home that you're about to buy,

17:57

potentially, you might move all

17:59

of these different things, your

17:59

focus is elsewhere. And that's

18:02

okay. Right family first. Um,

18:02

however, if you are like me, for

18:07

example, you're single, you

18:07

know, you're very independent,

18:10

you have a bit more time. And so

18:10

you can engage Okay, what block

18:14

of time Can I give to this? And

18:14

what block of time Can I give to

18:17

that? And the thing is, you

18:17

know, at the end of the day, I

18:21

know a lot of especially

18:21

writers, a one because it can

18:25

seem intimidating at the outset.

18:25

Right, you're trying to write

18:27

this big ol thing, you've not

18:27

done it before. And it can feel

18:31

intimidating and big. When we

18:31

get intimidated, we just do

18:34

nothing at all right? our, our

18:34

brains are overloaded when we're

18:38

like, you know what, I'm trying

18:38

to do anything. At least I can

18:42

know, like, what the outcome of

18:42

that, right. But um, it's this

18:46

thing of like, making time

18:46

number one, because you're never

18:50

going to get more time, you

18:50

know, we all have 24 hours.

18:52

That's it, like, you know, we're

18:52

not going to magically get 36.

18:55

And even if we had 36 or 48, we

18:55

would still have this sense of

18:59

like, I don't have enough time,

18:59

right? So you will never have

19:03

time to have to make time.

19:03

That's number one. And so it's

19:06

understanding what is important

19:06

to you. And how much time Can I

19:09

delegate and allocate for that?

19:09

That's number one, looking at

19:12

your schedule, you know, are you

19:12

married? Do you have kids?

19:15

What's important what, you know,

19:15

what stage in life are your kids

19:18

at? If you have a newborn versus

19:18

a 14 year old, your life was

19:21

very different, you know, if you

19:21

if you have a job that you have

19:26

to fly out all the time for

19:26

versus you work at home, you

19:30

know, that looks very different

19:30

if you have childcare versus

19:32

not, that looks very different.

19:32

And so it's one of those things

19:35

where it's like, what can you do

19:35

when and at the end of the day,

19:39

it's going to require sacrifice,

19:39

and that's a tough thing to have

19:43

to swallow because you're

19:43

already sacrificing a lot,

19:46

right? Like your plate is

19:46

already full, but it does

19:49

require sacrifice. You might

19:49

have to wake up earlier in the

19:51

morning, you might have to go to

19:51

bed late at night, you might

19:54

have to sacrifice watching, you

19:54

know that one show that

19:57

everybody else on the planet has

19:57

binged already and you're

20:00

Behind, you know what I mean?

20:00

And it's also recognizing how

20:03

important is this to you. Like,

20:03

for me, writing is what I do.

20:08

And if I were to stop, I would

20:08

not be able to, right?, I've

20:13

tried to stop, I've tried to do

20:13

other things, you know, I went

20:15

and got another job. And I went

20:15

into something else, because,

20:18

you know, life was different.

20:18

And I was like, well, I need

20:20

something else to move the

20:20

needle. And writing was always

20:23

on the door, like, hey, these

20:23

characters want their stories to

20:26

be told. And so, it was one of

20:26

those things where it was like,

20:28

okay, you know, that this is

20:28

your passion, this is your

20:32

purpose. And this is what you

20:32

are meant to do. So you need to

20:36

prioritize and orchestrate your

20:36

life in such a way that you can

20:40

actually allocate the amount of

20:40

time that it requires. Um, so,

20:44

you know, previously I was doing

20:44

the podcast and, you know, doing

20:49

graphic design and writing and,

20:49

you know, creating digital

20:52

products for writers. And I've

20:52

sent, you know, tabled some

20:58

things because, when human

20:58

beings, like when you're living

21:02

and burnout is a very, very

21:02

real, I wish it on no one. I was

21:08

working like 13, 14 hour days,

21:08

like, so exhausted, I would wake

21:14

up, my eyes were burning. Like,

21:14

you know, I had to take on some

21:19

things, um, but it really came

21:19

down to making time as in like,

21:24

actually opening up the

21:24

calendar, looking at the hours

21:30

and saying, okay, on Monday,

21:30

between 9 to 12, nobody's

21:35

allowed to bother me or writing

21:35

during that time. Okay, cool.

21:38

Tuesday, between one to two, I

21:38

have a little window. All right.

21:42

During that time, you know, like

21:42

doing things like that actually

21:45

putting it in the calendar, because if it's not on the calendar, let's just be real.

21:47

The most of us are adults,

21:49

right? If it's not on the calendar, it's not getting done, we literally Forget it, the

21:51

moment it comes into our minds,

21:54

if we do not write it down or

21:54

put it in a calendar, and then

21:56

just really understanding what's

21:56

important to you in that season,

22:00

you may be in a season where

22:00

you're like, Okay, I want to

22:03

write an entire novel, cool, I'm

22:03

going to dedicate the next 90

22:06

days to writing, you know, 1500

22:06

words every single day. And

22:11

that's what I'm going to do, you

22:11

may be in a season where you're

22:14

like, Okay, I am still

22:14

developing, I'm still working,

22:18

okay, so, you know, for a little

22:18

bit of time a day, 30 minutes,

22:22

I'm going to research, then for

22:22

another 30 minutes, I am going

22:26

to, you know, go through

22:26

Pinterest and get ideas for my

22:29

story, or I'm going to go to a

22:29

park and you know, just kind of

22:32

like breathe in fresh air and

22:32

look around me and get more

22:35

ideals. And then for another 30

22:35

minutes, you know, maybe I'll

22:39

watch a film about you know,

22:39

that's like relevant to the kind

22:43

of world or story that I'm

22:43

trying to build. It really comes

22:47

down to that because there's no

22:47

such thing as balance, right?

22:49

You know, this, the same mentor,

22:49

she talks about how she realizes

22:55

in life, we are always juggling

22:55

two kinds of balls, one ball is

22:59

made of rubber one is made of

22:59

glass. And every day, while

23:03

those balls are in the air, she

23:03

has to decide for, okay, which

23:07

balls are rubber, and which is

23:07

glass, and the ones that are

23:12

rubber. Because if then I'm going to you're going to drop a ball, right? Something's going

23:14

to fall. But if it's rubber,

23:17

that's fine, it'll bounce back

23:17

up, you can keep moving. And so

23:20

her example was okay, you know,

23:20

if she misses a day of carpool,

23:24

you know, dropping her kids or

23:24

picking them up from school, if

23:27

that falls, that's fine, it'll

23:27

bounce back up. However, if it's

23:31

a monumental dance recital for

23:31

her child, that's a ball of

23:36

glass. If that falls, it won't

23:36

be so easy coming back from

23:40

that, because that will affect

23:40

her child long term that she was

23:42

not there for something so

23:42

important in her life. And so

23:46

for all of my writers,

23:46

especially for those of you who

23:48

are this is like fresh to you

23:48

think about Okay, what is a

23:51

rubber ball? What is a glass

23:51

ball? What can recover if you

23:55

let it go, and what will not

23:55

recover? If you drop that ball,

23:59

and then prioritize your writing

23:59

around that and then go from

24:03

there.

24:04

That's a beautiful

24:04

analogy, you know, that idea of

24:07

the two evils because then it's

24:07

very, it's very visual as well,

24:10

and you can feel them in your

24:10

hands. very tangible. I like

24:15

also to Well, first of all, I

24:15

love that you talk about

24:17

scheduling, because it's

24:17

something I bang on about all

24:20

the time. And I think people get

24:20

a bit like, Oh, that's so

24:24

uninspiring. That's not very

24:24

exciting. And it is the least

24:27

kind of parts of all, but you do

24:27

have to do you want to want to

24:32

make sure you've got that

24:32

protected time. But I love also

24:35

that you you mentioned a number

24:35

of different things that people

24:38

could spend their time on not

24:38

just the writing, but the

24:41

thinking the research and the

24:41

getting some fresh air then

24:44

watching a movie or writing a

24:44

book is not solely about pen or

24:49

paper that goes into it. And in

24:49

fact, I'm going to bring us on

24:54

now actually to that because you

24:54

are particularly well known for

24:57

being a very creative world

24:57

builder. And so I want to hit

25:01

start off by telling us about l

25:01

down the world that you have

25:05

created.

25:06

Yes. So lol

25:06

started with a question again,

25:09

back to the faith thing, right?

25:09

So I was born and raised in

25:13

church, y'all, I'm pretty sure.

25:13

I mean, I'm joking, but like my

25:17

mother might as well have had me

25:17

on underneath a Pew right? Like

25:21

I've been in church my entire

25:21

life and, um, because of that,

25:25

like, wealth of Christian

25:25

stories in my brain, right, all

25:28

of the, you know, your

25:28

Abraham's, and your Joseph's and

25:32

your Isaac's and your roofs and

25:32

all of that. And so for me, I've

25:36

always been attracted to angels.

25:36

I just I really think that I

25:39

came out of the womb loving

25:39

everything fantastical and

25:43

supernatural. Oh, I've always

25:43

been into like angels and demons

25:47

and the supernatural world, and

25:47

how all of that works. And like,

25:51

what does that mean? How does it

25:51

make sense, that kind of thing.

25:55

And so for me, you know, in the

25:55

Bible, there is the story in the

25:59

explanation of how Lucifer was

25:59

the morning star. He was, you

26:02

know, this head arc, Angel, his

26:02

bodies made of pipes, he's

26:06

perfect. He's beautiful. He's

26:06

everything, honestly, like,

26:10

there was really nothing else

26:10

that he could want, right?

26:13

Except he wanted also the throne

26:13

of God. He was like, Well, you

26:17

know, I'm perfect. Where's my

26:17

throne. And God was like, that's

26:21

cute, flicks him out of heaven,

26:21

right? And so, but before he

26:25

gets kicked out of heaven,

26:25

Lucifer is cunning enough and

26:28

manages to persuade a third of

26:28

the angels to go with him. Now,

26:32

you are an ark Angel, and you

26:32

still managed to persuade all of

26:36

these other angels who were once

26:36

loyal and faithful to God only

26:40

to follow you. There's a war in

26:40

heaven between the angels. And

26:44

they are kicked out and they're

26:44

sent to Earth, right? My

26:47

question was, I wonder, because

26:47

that's where my brain goes. I

26:51

was like, well, I wonder if this

26:51

happened over like 24 hours. I

26:55

wonder what happened between the

26:55

time after the war in heaven.

26:59

But before these angels got

26:59

kicked to Earth, like just that

27:03

gap in that window of time The

27:03

war has happened, but they're

27:07

not really at Earth, yet.

27:07

They're like, somewhere in the

27:10

ether of space, somewhere.

27:10

That's how it started. And I got

27:14

this entire I got this character

27:14

in my brain, and it was my

27:18

version of Lucifer, his name is

27:18

AGS. His original name is

27:21

exitus. And I thought of him in

27:21

the previous state of like, when

27:25

he wasn't full of pride when he

27:25

was just beautiful and

27:29

experiencing this entire

27:29

universe that he's able to

27:32

travel through, and you know,

27:32

what he touches grows, and

27:35

everything is beautiful around

27:35

him, it's perfect. And then just

27:39

that journey of him wanting more

27:39

and where that darkness came

27:43

from, and what he would have

27:43

done to achieve his goal and how

27:47

he goes about persuading the

27:47

other angels to follow him. So

27:51

like, all of these different

27:51

things came into my I wrote that

27:54

story. Um, didn't publish it

27:54

yet. Um, it is going to come out

27:58

though, because that's going to

27:58

be awesome, but haven't

28:02

published it yet. But like, that

28:02

was how and the thing is, I

28:05

started with that. And, you

28:05

know, in Genesis one one talks

28:09

about in the beginning, God

28:09

created the heavens in the

28:12

earth. And so in my brain, I was

28:12

like, Okay, well, what about the

28:17

beginning of the universe. And

28:17

so that's how Ella doll was

28:20

born. I just saw this like

28:20

expanse of light. And then just

28:24

different worlds begin to be

28:24

created into which different

28:27

planets, different realms,

28:27

different timelines, time moves

28:31

differently, different places,

28:31

different rankings of angels,

28:35

like all of that begin to be

28:35

developed in my brain. I, I joke

28:39

around and I tell people, you

28:39

know, there are some people who

28:42

have books in their heads. And

28:42

then there are people who are

28:46

like Stan Lee, who have

28:46

universes in their heads, and

28:50

that's me. And I have universe

28:50

in my head, right? So like, I

28:53

have all these different worlds

28:53

and different storylines in my

28:57

brain. But that's how it began.

28:57

And I'm really, interestingly

29:01

enough, the world came after I

29:01

thought of the character, right?

29:05

Like I thought of this, this one

29:05

individual, like, what could

29:09

have happened, after you create

29:09

it, you made this egregious

29:13

error by thinking that you were

29:13

mighty enough to go against God

29:16

Himself, which was a joke, and

29:16

you got kicked out. But before

29:20

you get kicked out to your final

29:20

punishment, there's like, all of

29:24

this chaos that ensues

29:24

afterwards, which is actually

29:28

aware of the Sarah from

29:28

resistance here, prequels,

29:31

which, you know, of course, this

29:31

year's will come after. That's

29:35

where those books are from,

29:35

because that era is after that

29:38

first great war between all of

29:38

the angels and they're like

29:42

recovering from that and dealing

29:42

with it and all these kinds of

29:46

things. And so Ella doll is just

29:46

really my it's a universe. It's

29:50

not just the world. So it's a

29:50

universe with 12 different

29:54

realms in it and each realm has

29:54

their own story. worlds some

29:57

realms have different worlds in

29:57

it like multiple different

30:01

worlds in it that will have

30:01

different stories and then that

30:05

some realms are just like, I

30:05

view it as like one massive

30:08

world. And so you know, you have

30:08

like different courts in it.

30:12

That kind of thing. Still, like

30:12

think of like Planet Earth with

30:16

different continents, like some

30:16

worlds or some realms are just

30:20

like that, whereas other rooms

30:20

have out other different planets

30:24

in it. And for me, I just, it's

30:24

my ability one, I did it like

30:28

that, so that I could give

30:28

myself a breath of room to write

30:31

just whatever. Right, whatever

30:31

and whatever kind of story about

30:35

whatever type of character, I'm

30:35

with different powers, different

30:39

magics, all these different

30:39

kinds of things. But they are

30:43

all angels. I love to say, I

30:43

love wolves, I, I love elves,

30:46

fairies, all of that I do. And

30:46

there will also be humans at

30:50

some point. They're not in the

30:50

world, yet, they probably won't

30:54

show for a mighty long time,

30:54

because there are so many

30:57

stories about humans that I'm

30:57

like, I'll just focus on angels.

31:01

But, um, um, can they still go

31:01

through things, you know, be not

31:05

fooled, right? Like, even though

31:05

they are angels, they are these

31:09

like, powerful, high ranking

31:09

beings, they still go through

31:13

what we humans would go through,

31:13

they still fall in love, they

31:17

still go through betrayal, they

31:17

still go through depression,

31:21

they still have to make a

31:21

choice, will they be loyal? Or

31:24

will they not? You know, will

31:24

they choose themselves and go

31:28

rogue? Or will they choose to

31:28

serve a greater cause all of

31:31

these kinds of things. And so it

31:31

is very expansive. And there's a

31:36

lot that goes on into it. But

31:36

I'm also rooted in all of like,

31:39

the other worldliness, because I

31:39

also still see these characters.

31:43

They are very real to me, as you

31:43

and I are real to ourselves. And

31:48

I could see them I see their

31:48

journeys, I see what they're

31:51

going through. And I'm, I like

31:51

to dig deep in a lot of things

31:55

at all times. So like, I'm the

31:55

person who digs into backstory

31:59

and learns like, why did you get

31:59

to this point? How did that

32:03

happen? But yeah, so that's Ella

32:03

Dalits, about angels I Akin the

32:07

world to Narnia meets Wakanda.

32:07

So like, if we're kinda Narnia

32:10

had a child, you would have lol.

32:10

You know, me, like, I love what

32:14

CS Lewis did, I love what was

32:14

done with the world of Wakanda.

32:18

And not just about the

32:18

technology, but really just, um,

32:22

I will say this as a black

32:22

woman, and I'm not American,

32:25

right? Like I am Haitian, and I

32:25

am and I'm Congolese African.

32:29

And so you be raised in so much

32:29

culture, you know, different

32:33

language and different beliefs,

32:33

different traditions, you know,

32:37

we adjust our elders and our

32:37

parents different, like family

32:40

is different. So having all of

32:40

that inside of me, I wanted a

32:44

world where I could infuse all

32:44

of that. So that's where like,

32:48

the Wakanda part comes in, you

32:48

know, the culture, the beliefs,

32:52

and all these different things.

32:52

And then the Narnia Of course,

32:56

you know, you've got like a

32:56

talking beaver and all this

32:59

stuff. So I have like a talking

32:59

Pegasus. And, you know, I have

33:03

like, my own version of

33:03

dinosaurs, and like dragons, and

33:07

like, all these different

33:07

things, it's a lot of fun. Um, I

33:10

get to be a child and just make

33:10

stuff up.

33:16

So I could kind of

33:16

go down this route of asking you

33:19

how you can pull the story ideas

33:19

and check. But what I'd love to

33:23

know is for our listeners out

33:23

there, so we can hear from the

33:28

way that you've been talking

33:28

about Yeah, you go in deep, you

33:31

are researched a lot? What

33:31

advice, what strategies? What

33:37

tips might you have for some of

33:37

our listeners who are fantasy

33:42

writers, and sci fi writers who

33:42

are maybe in their first year of

33:46

writing, and they're starting to

33:46

build their world, and are

33:50

either looking to put together

33:50

the basics that they need, and

33:54

then maybe a couple of things

33:54

about how they might be able to

33:56

go deeper and really give? give

33:56

their world a 3D fuel to it as

34:03

well.

34:04

Yeah, no. So

34:04

for beginners, right, if this is

34:09

your first time tackling

34:09

something, so expansive,

34:13

something so assuming it's

34:13

large, right, assuming it's on

34:16

that kind of level, maybe not a

34:16

universal level, but you're

34:20

trying to create a brand new

34:20

world, brand new cultures, brand

34:24

new individuals, traditions,

34:24

histories, that kind of thing.

34:29

And you're not necessarily

34:29

pulling ideals from Planet

34:33

Earth, you know, or a different

34:33

epic in history of Earth, but

34:36

maybe you're pulling ideals. I

34:36

think they were pulling ideals

34:39

from what we know. Right? So

34:39

maybe you're pulling ideals from

34:41

Greek mythology or any kind of

34:41

thing like that. Um, first I

34:46

would say is know what you want

34:46

to write. So what draws you what

34:53

attracts you, though I I have

34:53

been able to create my own

34:58

thing. Basically, at the end of

34:58

the day, I have always loved

35:03

angels. I have always loved

35:03

demons. I have always read

35:05

stories with angels and demons

35:05

and these kinds of things. Of

35:08

course, I've also read, you

35:08

know, Fey and all these kinds of

35:10

other creatures, but, um, I know

35:10

that those kinds of stories tugs

35:14

on my heart number one, number

35:14

two, I always knew that stories

35:17

that are very otherworldly are

35:17

stories that are near and dear

35:21

to my heart, Lord of the Rings,

35:21

Chronicles of Narnia, you know,

35:25

Mortal Instruments, you know,

35:25

all of these kinds of, we're in

35:30

one, we're in this one world,

35:30

but we go somewhere completely

35:33

different, has always pulled on

35:33

my heart. And a couple of

35:37

approaches is either character,

35:37

or the world. What do you see

35:42

first? And don't be afraid to go

35:42

with what you see. First. I

35:45

know, oftentimes, there can be

35:45

this, you know, notion of like,

35:50

Oh, well, the rule is you start

35:50

with a character. No, the rule

35:54

is you start with where your

35:54

heartstrings are going first.

35:56

Right. So do you hear dialogue?

35:56

Do you see a face? Do you want

36:02

to talk about a certain kind of

36:02

people group, you know, again,

36:08

while I am creating this

36:08

otherworldly, you know,

36:11

universe, I am drawing from what

36:11

I know as a black woman from the

36:18

cultures that I was raised

36:18

raised with. So like, Haitians

36:21

are in the back of my mind,

36:21

Africans are in the back of my

36:24

mind, the the journey of black

36:24

people throughout the Diaspora

36:29

around the world that is in the

36:29

back of my mind. And it's

36:32

important to me to tell our

36:32

stories from a beautiful light

36:38

from a light of excellence and

36:38

to show our show our joy to

36:42

shore up to show our history to

36:42

show our pride. And to do that

36:45

through the lens of a fantasy,

36:45

you know, these angels. And so,

36:49

you know, what do you see first?

36:49

Or maybe do you see this world

36:53

of water, you know, and you see

36:53

these different creature

36:56

characters and creatures? And

36:56

you're like, oh, okay, I can't I

37:00

can see this. Now, I want to go

37:00

deeper into that. Um,

37:04

Can I just really

37:04

just want to take you back a

37:07

moment where you were saying,

37:07

you know, what draws you though,

37:09

for the listener? what draws

37:09

them? Is that important, because

37:12

they're going to be doing a lot

37:12

of research about that. And

37:15

they're going to be

37:15

incorporating those stories. So

37:18

it's a, it's a good idea to

37:18

choose Greek mythology, or let

37:24

me think Chinese mythology

37:24

because that's what you'll be

37:26

surrounding yourself with. So

37:26

make sure you love it so that

37:29

you're happy to be in that realm

37:29

or, or take from that. Is that

37:34

is that why that's important?

37:36

Partly because

37:36

you will be in that for a long

37:38

time. But also, because at the

37:38

end of the day, writing is hard.

37:42

Writing is work, writing is

37:42

tough. And there will come a

37:45

point where you're going to

37:45

question every single word that

37:49

you have written, and there has

37:49

to be something deep within you

37:52

that understands, no, I need to

37:52

tell this story. I want to tell

37:56

this story, there's something

37:56

deeper about this that's calling

37:59

me to put these these words to

37:59

paper. And so it has to be

38:03

because the thing is, if you go

38:03

I mean, you can go and the

38:06

reason why I say that is because

38:06

a lot of people you know,

38:09

especially if they want to build

38:09

a career, they go where the

38:13

market leads, right fame sells

38:13

couple you know, if you're

38:16

reading my a write enemies to

38:16

lovers sells, um, you know, the

38:20

long lost princess sells, like

38:20

all of these kinds of things. So

38:23

but is that the story that you

38:23

want to tell is that the story

38:27

that is inside of your heart,

38:27

because at the end of the day,

38:30

it's not what the idea that

38:30

you're writing the story first

38:33

and foremost for yourself, like

38:33

you are your first reader, you

38:37

are the first person that will

38:37

love these characters, love this

38:41

world love this journey that

38:41

they're going on will be able to

38:44

relate with this journey that

38:44

they're going on. And so there

38:48

has to be something deep inside

38:48

of you that understands, okay,

38:51

this is the direction that I

38:51

want to go, this might be fun.

38:55

But this is not only fun, but

38:55

it's also really calling me in

38:58

that direction. And so it's

38:58

really good to go, what your

39:01

heart is calling you. And then I

39:01

would also say, pick an angle,

39:05

do you want to go from a

39:05

character's purse, you want to

39:08

build up from a character, which

39:08

I would call micro world

39:11

building, where you're attacking

39:11

the character. So and this is

39:15

not just like, oh, what they

39:15

look like this is where do they

39:18

come from? Where do they live?

39:18

How are they raised? What were

39:22

they conditioned with? You know,

39:22

what's the world like around

39:25

them? And how does that affect

39:25

their affect their psyche? You

39:29

know, like their education. I

39:29

mean, like, if we understand

39:32

that, depending on where you

39:32

were raised, who was around you,

39:36

you become a product of your

39:36

environment. And it's the same

39:39

thing for your character. You

39:39

know, their worldview will be

39:42

determined will be determined by

39:42

their normal world. What are

39:46

they exposed to every single

39:46

day? What opportunities or lack

39:49

thereof of are they presented

39:49

with, you can go from that

39:52

perspective. Right the micro

39:52

worlds building or you can do

39:56

macro, where you tackle the

39:56

entire world you tackle, you

39:59

know, the different continents,

39:59

and you tackle, okay. And this

40:03

is like logistical things of

40:03

like, where these continents are

40:06

situation situated during, with

40:06

the different hemispheres, what

40:10

kinds of worlds could survive

40:10

there? How could these worlds

40:13

survive? How would these people

40:13

groups if you live in a place

40:17

where there's always you know,

40:17

thunder and lightning and

40:20

hurricanes, at some point, the

40:20

society is going to set Okay, we

40:23

need to build shelters and homes

40:23

that can withstand this because

40:27

we can't just up and stop our

40:27

lives every time a storm comes

40:31

through, right? Like I was

40:31

raised in South Florida. When

40:34

you hit you know, like Orlando

40:34

south, especially when it gets

40:37

to like Fort Lauderdale, South,

40:37

a lot of the homes are hurricane

40:41

proof. Because at the end of the

40:41

day, we know what it's like to

40:45

deal with category five

40:45

hurricanes where the hurricane

40:48

comes, and literally flatlines

40:48

everything, because we are

40:51

literally below sea level if you

40:51

really think about where Florida

40:55

is situated, right. And so you

40:55

know, as, as people grew up in

40:58

Florida, we obviously have had

40:58

to acclimate to the fact that,

41:02

okay, it's May, from the from

41:02

the month of May, and June, up

41:05

until November, at any given

41:05

time, we can be hit by either a

41:09

low balling tropical storm, or

41:09

up to a category five hurricane

41:12

where you need to make sure that

41:12

you have at least three weeks

41:16

food supply all of these kinds

41:16

of things. And so when you're

41:19

thinking about macro world

41:19

building, you know, you can

41:22

think of that expansive view of,

41:22

you know, looking at the

41:25

different people groups, how

41:25

they interact with one another,

41:29

did they go to war? Are they

41:29

like, who's an ally? Who's an

41:32

enemy? How did that happen? You

41:32

know, what kind of magic do they

41:36

have? How does magic either

41:36

advance or hinder their lives?

41:39

Who has magic? Where did it come

41:39

from, you know, like all of

41:43

these kinds of things. And so it

41:43

really depends on what you want

41:46

to do. And what you want to

41:46

focus on when I started from the

41:50

very beginning back in like 2015

41:50

2016, is when I really started,

41:54

like gathering ideas for what is

41:54

now lol, I didn't know that.

41:57

That's what it was, at the time,

41:57

I just knew that I wanted to

42:01

create this massive world and

42:01

have all these different moving

42:04

parts. And so I just tackled a

42:04

little bit every you know, every

42:08

day, I'll just like put a little

42:08

you know, maybe a character here

42:11

or like, maybe one day a

42:11

character will find this magical

42:15

object somewhere out here. I

42:15

would do all these different

42:18

things. But I really approached

42:18

it from that time on a macro

42:21

perspective. So like the

42:21

different worlds different

42:24

realms, how does time work in

42:24

one realm versus time in another

42:28

if they travel inter

42:28

dimensionally? How does that

42:31

affect the character? Like these

42:31

kinds of things? But now I

42:34

really do. I do tackle it from a

42:34

character perspective. I do go

42:38

from the micro perspective of

42:38

like, who's going to be in the

42:41

story? What is surrounding them

42:41

and how does that shape their

42:45

personality and and their

42:45

ideals? Right, like I'm working

42:48

on a story right now where I

42:48

guess you can call you can think

42:51

of her as like an assassin so

42:51

she's a crack since and

42:54

crescents are bone collectors

42:54

and ash fusers. And what that

42:58

means is, it's a terrible job.

42:58

So is they so there are the

43:01

parts of the questions where

43:01

they are assassins, they have

43:04

these high level targets, they

43:04

take them out, then they bring

43:08

them to her where she

43:08

essentially extract the bone

43:11

extracts the bones from these

43:11

bodies, collects them, brings

43:14

them back to the crescent guild

43:14

and then they take these bones

43:18

and fuse them into ash and

43:18

deliver these ash whether to the

43:21

temple to be used for like, you

43:21

know, incense or whatever, or to

43:25

somewhere else to be used for

43:25

manufacturing, and terrible job,

43:28

I promise but you know, she has

43:28

a good redemption arc. Um, but

43:32

you know, I started from there

43:32

and then so I'm thinking, Okay,

43:36

if you are a Bone Collector,

43:36

okay, and an ash fuser, you have

43:39

to have a certain kind of

43:39

psyche, right to constantly be

43:42

able to take people's lives and

43:42

to just end them and to be able

43:46

to take their bones from their

43:46

bodies and to disintegrate their

43:49

bodies and continue to move

43:49

life, you know, and continue to

43:53

do what you have to do, right?

43:53

You like, at the end of the day,

43:56

that's your job, you know, and

43:56

you have to get it done. And so,

44:00

what is that psyche? Like, what

44:00

are you surrounded by? How does

44:04

your day move forward for you to

44:04

have that kind of mindset and

44:07

lifestyle? versus you know, if I

44:07

started from like the world, you

44:11

know, I might have something

44:11

different, you know, if I

44:14

started only from the world, I

44:14

might, she might have ended up

44:18

being like some noble or

44:18

something, you know what I mean?

44:21

So, it really just depends on

44:21

what you want to do either micro

44:24

world building going from the

44:24

character or macro world

44:28

building, going from the world

44:28

and then sticking characters in

44:31

there afterwards.

44:32

Okay, okay. Wow.

44:32

Okay. A lot in there. My

44:35

goodness. There's a lot to think

44:35

about. And so that kind of leads

44:39

me to your question, which is,

44:39

or know if you're a either a

44:43

perfectionist or you're a

44:43

procrastinator you're going

44:46

through. I'm a bit nervous about

44:46

writing the story. This kind of

44:51

feels to me perfect rabbit hole

44:51

research land where you could

44:55

just just world bills for the

44:55

next 20 years and never actually

45:00

lightened story. So how can

45:00

people balance that bits of it

45:06

as well and not let themselves

45:06

off the hook by just doing the

45:08

world's building?

45:10

No, that's a

45:10

really good point. And I will go

45:13

ahead and say this right now I

45:13

am a recovering perfectionist, I

45:16

might go to the grave being a

45:16

recovering perfectionist,

45:20

because I am as meticulous as I

45:20

am because I am a perfectionist.

45:24

So I'm like, Where are these

45:24

people wearing? What do they

45:27

look like? You know, how do

45:27

their wings function? Wait,

45:31

okay, can they put a coat? Can

45:31

you put a coat on wings? How

45:34

does that work? Like? You know,

45:34

I mean, like, that's where

45:38

rabbit holes, right? Like you

45:38

can get lost. For hours. Hello,

45:42

I've been building this world

45:42

free hears and I'm still doing

45:45

it right. And so I would say

45:45

this, you've got to know when to

45:49

pull the plug. And honestly,

45:49

that's a gut thing. That is a

45:53

gut thing where you realize I

45:53

have enough. You know what I

45:56

mean? And honestly, when you get

45:56

to that space, where you are

46:00

constantly building, building

46:00

building, but you're not

46:03

creating, really the question is

46:03

what are you running from? What

46:07

are you hiding from? Why have

46:07

you not started, what is

46:11

allowing this resistance to keep

46:11

you from diving in because

46:14

usually it's not a, I don't have

46:14

enough information thing for us

46:18

extreme plotters, like myself,

46:18

it's not an I don't have enough

46:22

information thing. It's a, I'm

46:22

too, I'm scared that regardless

46:26

of everything that I have

46:26

learned, and I have gathered,

46:29

this book will still be hot,

46:29

boiling garbage, and no one's

46:33

going to read it and no one's

46:33

going to want it. Or I'm scared

46:37

that when I put it out, I was

46:37

hoping for it to be like this.

46:41

And it came out like this. And

46:41

it's not the way I want it. And

46:44

I don't want that we're usually

46:44

avoiding the end result before

46:48

we even get there. And because

46:48

we are so afraid of what could

46:52

be we don't do anything at all

46:52

in the present. And so I would

46:56

really say like that is a gut

46:56

thing. And really that that's

46:59

just it's it's a mindset thing,

46:59

right? It's recognizing You are

47:03

worthy of writing the story. And

47:03

then also thinking about and

47:07

some questions to really focus

47:07

on is, who will this story help

47:11

the most? And how will they

47:11

continue to be hindered because

47:14

you have not written the book,

47:14

right? When you move yourself

47:18

out of the way and you think

47:18

from a place of just service,

47:22

and you think of the people who

47:22

are going to get this book,

47:25

because understand whether

47:25

you're writing fiction or

47:29

fantasy, it is just as powerful

47:29

as writing a self help book,

47:32

right? There are some people

47:32

there are certain things that

47:36

they will process in this life,

47:36

they will only learn those

47:40

principles through a fiction

47:40

book. And so when you think

47:43

about, okay, if I don't write

47:43

this book, all of these people

47:47

will not be able to find the

47:47

solution that they're looking

47:50

for, they will not be able to

47:50

learn the lessons that they need

47:54

to learn because I didn't do my

47:54

job, which is to write the book,

47:58

then it starts to take a

47:58

different like that has a

48:01

different weight to it. Because

48:01

you're realizing Oh, yeah, as

48:05

much as I would love to spend

48:05

another five hours on Pinterest,

48:09

you know, looking at, you know,

48:09

another 10 minutes million

48:12

dresses. Oh, what would you look

48:12

at that I actually need to sit

48:16

down and write 1500 words today,

48:16

because I have a goal, you know,

48:20

and honestly, it and that's the

48:20

thing too, right? giving

48:24

yourself a deadline, giving

48:24

yourself goals, giving yourself

48:27

you know, rewards, right? So if

48:27

you write, maybe you get

48:31

chocolate, maybe you get some

48:31

coffee, if you don't write maybe

48:35

you don't get to watch

48:35

bridgerton until you do, right,

48:38

you know that? You know, give

48:38

yourself you know, rewards, give

48:42

yourself consequences, but also

48:42

really think about the people,

48:46

you know, that are being

48:46

shortchanged, because you have

48:49

not done your job, which is to

48:49

write the book, if that story is

48:53

inside of you. It needs to be

48:53

told right there is there are

48:57

almost 8 billion people on this

48:57

planet. And quite frankly, we

49:00

could all write as many stories

49:00

as fast as we could and it would

49:04

still not be enough because the

49:04

way that readers, especially if

49:08

they are voracious these readers

49:08

will fly through books, whether

49:12

it is 200 pages or 699. They

49:12

will fly through the book and

49:16

sit there like okay, well,

49:16

where's the next one? And you're

49:19

like, I can only write so much

49:19

so quick. Right? So readers at

49:23

the end of the day, there will

49:23

never be enough books for

49:27

readers like they're constantly

49:27

taking in. And so it is up to

49:30

you to recognize that you have a

49:30

power which is telling stories

49:34

and there are readers literally

49:34

waiting for your story with how

49:38

you will tell it in the way that

49:38

you will tell it and the lessons

49:42

that you will teach through the

49:42

journey of your characters

49:48

Is a beautiful place

49:48

to end because it is all about

49:52

the reader, isn't it? Why when

49:52

we're writing our first story in

49:55

particular, we put our heart

49:55

into it and possibly yours,

49:59

right? Again, trying to make

49:59

every sentence perfect. And and

50:03

then then we've when we get

50:03

further down the line, we

50:05

realize, Oh, it's actually not

50:05

about me. It's about the reader.

50:09

And so that's a really valuable

50:09

ending there just to remind

50:13

people when they're feeling

50:13

nervous and feeling unconfident

50:16

about their work, just to remind

50:16

yourself, not about me, it's

50:20

about the reader, it's alright

50:20

to be done. And that takes the

50:22

pressure off quite a bit of the

50:22

pressure anyway.

50:26

No,

50:26

absolutely. Because in the

50:28

beginning, I will confess, I was

50:28

that person, I was like, oh, but

50:33

I love this story. I love these

50:33

characters. And this world is my

50:37

favorite. And I know port all of

50:37

this energy into it. And the

50:43

lessons and the themes that I

50:43

thought readers would walk away

50:47

with from it, they did not write

50:47

like, because one thing to put

50:52

your intention into it, it's

50:52

another thing when their reader

50:54

interprets it with their own

50:54

views and what they're trying to

50:57

get out of the story. And so

50:57

honestly, once that book is

51:01

published, it is completely out

51:01

of your hands. And it's all up

51:05

to the reader. Because at the end of the day, yeah, we'll write for ourselves, what, we're

51:07

ready for our readers, you know,

51:09

what are they going to learn? What are they going to take away from it? And so yeah, I mean, of

51:11

course, pour your heart into it,

51:15

right? Like, every time we write

51:15

a book, it's like we're

51:17

releasing a part of ourselves.

51:17

But at the end of the day, it

51:22

it's for the reader, it's how

51:22

this book is going to change

51:27

them, you know, whether for

51:27

season or for a lifetime. And

51:29

that's what matters.

51:31

Lovely! Well tell us what you're working on now. Because there's lots of things

51:33

oing on in your universe. So

51:36

hat are you working on at the

51:38

So right now I

51:38

am editing, editing, rewriting a

51:44

story. Here's a little tip for

51:44

some of you guys. So there will

51:49

be some times that you will

51:49

write an entire manuscript and

51:51

realize, Oh, I did not write it

51:51

in the right POV. Or I did not.

51:58

I did not write it, you know

51:58

from the right perspective. And

52:02

so I'm currently facing that

52:02

with one manuscript where I

52:05

wrote it in third person is

52:05

better served in first. So going

52:10

through an entire rewrite plus,

52:10

adding a lot of lore in and all

52:14

it's taking a lot of time, a lot

52:14

of energy, it is draining on me

52:16

it is. It's kind of like it's

52:16

very Romeo and Juliet esque,

52:22

between a major princess and a

52:22

Simon Prince. And they are

52:28

raised, born and raised,

52:28

conditioned and sharpened as

52:32

weapons to completely obliterate

52:32

the other. So sirens are always

52:36

killing mages, mages are always

52:36

killing sirens. And at some

52:39

point, these two main characters

52:39

will ask the question why? When

52:44

did this start? Why is this

52:44

going on? Why am I expected to

52:49

fulfill these needs and as they

52:49

are desiring of their crown,

52:53

because they're both heirs to

52:53

their thrones, and they both

52:56

will get their throne by wiping

52:56

the other one out? That's the

53:01

condition. But as they as they

53:01

journey, they'll have to

53:04

discover Okay, is this really

53:04

what I want? And if it's not,

53:07

where do I go from here? And

53:07

from that a whole slew of events

53:11

unfold. So that's taking quite

53:11

an amount of energy. And I'm

53:14

also writing, I'm a serial, so

53:14

think of it as so think of

53:19

novels for those of you like

53:19

what is a serial, so think of

53:21

novels as like feature films,

53:21

serials as like television

53:24

episodes, so they are shorter,

53:24

they're coming in and they're

53:29

like novella length. And um,

53:29

this is about my Crescent. So

53:35

she is a Bone Collector and an

53:35

ash fuser who wants to who no

53:39

longer wants to be part of the

53:39

crescent guilds and she no

53:42

longer wants to be a crescent,

53:42

right. And so she finally I'm

53:46

working on the first pilot, if

53:46

you will, I'm working on the

53:49

pilot. And for this episode,

53:49

she, she has finally amassed

53:55

enough coin to leave the

53:55

crescent guild and to leave the

53:59

bone court, and she wants to go

53:59

to a different court to live but

54:02

then her, the queen of the

54:02

crescents gives her one last

54:06

task. And when she realizes what

54:06

the task is, she will have to

54:10

decide is she going to get

54:10

involved because it's completely

54:13

against her morals, or she gonna

54:13

choose herself and you know, do

54:16

the job and escape. So I'm

54:16

having a lot of fun with it,

54:20

it's shorter, so it's easier to

54:20

dive in without pouring so much

54:26

into it. You don't have to do so

54:26

much for character development

54:30

and world building, I can just

54:30

dive in. So I'm having a lot of

54:34

fun with it. There will be

54:34

several seasons and they will be

54:38

you know, like potentially about

54:38

eight or so nine episodes a

54:41

season. That's like eight or so

54:41

nine books for those of you that

54:43

are like what does that mean?

54:43

Um, so that's what I'm working

54:47

on. I've got the rewrite plus

54:47

I've got the book books that I'm

54:51

working on right now and they're

54:51

a lot of fun, and they're two

54:54

completely different realms

54:54

also. So

55:00

My goodness no for

55:00

our listeners who are have been

55:04

their appetites have been wetted

55:04

and they want to know more where

55:07

can they find out more about

55:07

your? Your writing?

55:10

Yes, Stephanie

55:10

bwabwa.com um, I do have a se

55:15

arate site for Elledelle wh

55:15

ch is elledelle.com. But right n

55:18

w I'm kind of consolidatin

55:18

, because I, I am phasing out o

55:23

e on one work and mostly ju

55:23

t keeping digital products up.

55:28

o I do have two courses f

55:28

r writers who are at t

55:30

e beginning. That one deals wi

55:30

h mindset. It's called writ

55:34

r readiness. It deals wi h mindset. The other one is call d storyboarding with purpose f

55:36

r those of you that are like, I need ideals. I'm dealing wi

55:38

h writer's block, what am

55:41

I supposed to do? I can't mo

55:41

e forward storyboarding wi

55:43

h purpose is for you. And so a

55:43

l of that has been consolidat

55:46

d into one site on Stephaniebwa

55:46

a.com so it will be predominantl

55:50

the books like it would be o

55:50

Elledelle. But writers will als

55:54

be able to find resources t

55:54

assist their writing journey o

56:00

Stephaniebwabwa.com as wel

56:00

, so they can find me there on

56:03

nstagram at Stephaniebwabwa bec

56:03

use I live on the gram.

56:09

Well, I'll be sure

56:09

to do all of those links and so

56:11

that people can find you on

56:11

either site and to resolve

56:15

amalgamated. Well Stephanie T

56:15

ank you so much for your time t

56:18

day. I really love learning m

56:18

re about you about lol. And a

56:21

so, just that crazy mind of y

56:21

urs has got so much going on i

56:24

side it.

56:25

No, thank you

56:25

for having me. This was awesome.

56:30

Well, thank you so

56:30

much for joining me today. I

56:33

hope you find that helpful and

56:33

inspirational. Now, don't forget

56:38

to come on over to facebook and

56:38

join my group, turning readers

56:42

into writers. It is especially

56:42

for you if you are a beginner

56:46

writer who is looking to write

56:46

their first novel. If you join

56:50

the group, you will also find a

56:50

free cheat sheet there called

56:55

three secret hacks to write with

56:55

consistency. So go to

56:58

Emmadhesi.com/turning readers

56:58

into writers. Hit join. Can't

57:02

wait to see you in there. All

57:02

right. Thank you. Bye bye.