There’s a big difference between simply talking about (and often criticizing!) ministry and actually doing ministry, a truth pastor Luke Lezon knows firsthand. In this week’s episode of Unapologetic, Julia and Luke aren’t afraid to go there: tackling the current culture of “failure porn,” why the church needs to pour into the generation of 18-29 year-olds, and how to encourage and equip girls who have been called into ministry. This is such a relevant conversation you’re not going to want to miss!

Luke started out in young adult ministry, pivoting to leading a church as a young adult himself in the process. During their conversation, Julia asks Luke to share his inspiring testimony—an experience with a strange illness that allowed him to see that God doesn’t often work around our messes, but in them. Given Julia’s years of experience in ministry herself, specifically young adult ministry, the two spend a lot of time talking about how to best pour into this generation that is so vital to the future of the church, even encouraging listeners to start their own ministry for young adults if that’s something you’re feeling called to! Julia wraps up their conversation by asking Luke his best piece of marriage advice for the younger generation. No matter which generation you belong to, this episode has something for you!

Follow Luke on Instagram and get his book—Your Mess Matters—wherever books are sold!