For International Women's Day, award-winning author and science journalist Angela Saini joins Amy from New York to talk about her latest book, The Patriarchs: How Men Came To Rule. Angela delves into the origins of "the patriarchy" and gendered oppression and finds that patriarchal societies are a far more recent historical development than we might imagine. She also talks about our fascination with matriarchy and women-led matrilineal societies and reveals that many different types of matrilineal societies exist across the world today. Angela explains how patriarchy is not inevitable and what feminists and people seeking a gender equal world can do to turn the tide. The Patriarchs was shortlisted for the 2023 Orwell Prize. It's published by Harper Collins Australia.

Angela's previous books are, Inferior: How Science Got Women Wrong, and Superior: The Return of Race Science.

This is the extended full version of the interview with Angela Saini. Broadcast on 5 March 2024.