0:03

Download open okay,

0:08

and oh dear, oh

0:10

buck. But

0:15

it's happening here.

0:22

I am again scrolling through

0:24

social media on my phone in the middle of the night,

0:26

except now I've got headphones

0:28

in and I'm in the other room because

0:30

this is TikTok and it as loud as fuck.

0:34

I realized that I can't fully report

0:36

on the world of influencers without understanding

0:39

this brave news social media platform.

0:42

But unlike when I used to scroll the grand Light at

0:44

night, I'm a little disoriented.

0:47

It feels a little bit like one of my kids has just sat

0:49

on the remote control and their butt is

0:52

flipping through every channel known

0:54

to man. I'm not going to do a girl, I

0:56

was just thinking about it. I'm not gonna do it. You are

0:58

going, I'm it's your act. TikTok

1:01

dancer starter, kude. What was over on the bench

1:03

and I was over on the bend is

1:11

okay? So after a lot of swiping and poking,

1:14

I finally found what I was looking for. Mom

1:16

talk one mom in particular

1:19

has cut my eye breaking news. It has

1:21

been a most mundane Friday.

1:23

As you can see, I am doing laundry.

1:25

Friday's are laundry days in our

1:27

household. I've got a second load. That's Jane

1:29

Park. She's got just over three

1:32

million followers on the TikTok.

1:35

I reached out to Jane to try to wrap my head

1:38

around this mom talk thing. When

1:43

I talked to Jane, I got a story that was pretty

1:45

similar to the ones that we've heard over and

1:47

over again from the Instagram moms. Jane

1:51

used to be a journalist, a newscaster.

1:54

What you just heard is a TikTok video where

1:56

she's using her old newscaster voice. But

2:00

when Jane had her kids, she needed a job that

2:02

was a little less demanding, a little more

2:04

flexible, and then it became

2:06

hard to even have a job at all. I

2:09

decided to take one for the team, so

2:11

to speak, and stay home, and

2:13

that ended up being a really, really, really difficult

2:16

transition. I definitely

2:18

felt like an impostor

2:21

doing things like volunteering in my son's

2:23

kindergarten classroom, because I

2:26

was like, these are all things that I'm supposed

2:28

to do, and yes, I'm

2:30

so glad that i can do it, but

2:34

you know, I don't feel necessarily that I'm

2:36

great at it or will I eventually

2:39

kind of grow into this role and

2:41

really enjoy it. Loneliness,

2:45

loss of identity, impostor syndrome,

2:48

a lack of career stability. Heard

2:50

this story before, haven't we guys, over

2:53

and over and over again, every time we talked

2:55

to women and mothers who have turned

2:57

to social media. And that's

2:59

what Jane did it. A friend of

3:01

hers was like, hey, I think you might get a kick

3:03

out of TikTok. So she

3:05

downloaded and learned some of the dances

3:07

that the kids do in these days,

3:10

and eventually she found mom

3:12

talk if you want this? This? Who

3:14

is this? Ellen

3:17

Kate that kind of stumbled

3:19

upon the whole mom niche

3:22

content, which was a lot of skits

3:25

if Toddler's choreographed TikTok

3:27

dances, a lot of funny

3:30

moments between moms and kids,

3:33

Alex pretty love more mommy

3:35

or Mommy.

3:38

I felt like, oh, here are the users

3:40

that are like me. I

3:45

think it was October where I went from

3:47

like eighty thou followers to like

3:50

two fifty thousand followers overnight

3:53

because of one viral

3:55

video. Yeah,

3:59

um, can you sit down please? You're not done

4:01

yet? Mommy? Yes, do

4:04

we still have My

4:06

husband was right next to me, like peacefully

4:09

eating his dinner. So I just looked at

4:11

him like, what, you're right here? Why

4:13

don't they say daddy? You know?

4:16

And my husband just kind of choked like, oh,

4:18

that would be a good TikTok. So I just flipped

4:20

my phone open um to the

4:22

app and I started recording mommy,

4:26

us, what are you eating? Do

4:30

you want to taste? And then

4:32

he notices my phone is on TikTok and then

4:34

he says, are you doing good TikTok?

4:38

And then I kind of break my poker

4:40

face and start cracking up. When

4:45

I uploaded that video, I

4:47

didn't think anything of it.

4:50

I woke up to millions

4:52

of yous. Really, I had no goal

4:55

of being a TikTok

4:57

influencer or getting any kind

4:59

of of partnerships

5:01

or opportunities from that. But

5:05

um, now I'm at a point where

5:08

I am getting offers and opportunities

5:11

to leverage this audience.

5:13

Now, what

5:17

seemed like just some silly video

5:19

helped Jane feel confident in herself again.

5:22

It helped her feel confident in her role as

5:24

a woman and a mom, like

5:27

she'd finally grown into this new iteration

5:29

of herself. I

5:31

have a lot of friends who think

5:34

obviously Jane, you want to go back into

5:37

news or back to your news career, And

5:39

I'm like, no, because I think I've kind of

5:42

evolved from that. Jane

5:47

got on TikTok a year ago at the start

5:49

of the pandemic, the early days when

5:51

we all just thought we were going to be locked up for two

5:53

weeks and then life was going to return to normal.

6:00

She wasn't alone at the

6:02

time when moms were thrown right into a pressure

6:04

cooker. A lot of women got on TikTok

6:06

to soothe their souls or try to find community

6:09

in this brave, new fund up world that we

6:11

were all living in. Some of those

6:13

women became influencers. Sound

6:15

familiar, history

6:19

repeats itself, my friend. When

6:22

Jane was getting into influencing, I was just

6:25

starting the first draft of the very

6:27

first episode of this show, and

6:29

when we were talking, I couldn't help again

6:31

a little bit emotional about how

6:33

we're both trying to figure out our role as moms. At the

6:35

same time, social

6:39

media helped Jane find her voice and her identity.

6:41

Again, it's also a business, and she

6:43

makes good money doing it. As

6:45

we've learned in these last nine episodes, social

6:48

media has helped a lot of women

6:50

to find community, find their identity,

6:53

and to make some pretty nice cash. Chit

6:56

chan, my friends, chuff fucking

6:58

chang. We've also learned

7:01

that sometimes that comes with some nasty consequences

7:03

and collateral damage. But the

7:06

one big thing that I'm taken away from

7:08

this is that this world is not

7:10

going anywhere. All

7:13

right, my friends, it's border rocket ship and go into

7:15

the future. What does the

7:17

future hold for this industry? For

7:20

all of us? I'm

7:25

Joe Piazza and you know the

7:27

drill by. Now say it with me. We

7:30

are all under the influence?

7:37

Episode nine? Is

7:39

this the end? You've

7:49

made it to episode nine? Congratulations,

7:52

my friends. Snaps and claps.

7:54

Snaps and claps. This is our last

7:57

episode of the season. I'm sorry for that,

7:59

but congrat relations for making it here. We've

8:02

been reporting this series for just over a year,

8:04

and in that time, the influencing game has

8:07

also completely changed. Tech moves

8:09

faster than we can keep up with, and there

8:11

are new social platforms popping up

8:14

almost every day. Clubhouse,

8:16

but the fuck and

8:19

now way more than when we started

8:22

this series. Mom. Influencers are finding

8:24

success on TikTok and if you're wondering

8:26

about the future of mom influencing. Like

8:28

I always am, mom talk

8:30

is going to be a very big part of it. Brands

8:33

are already moving millions of

8:35

influencing marketing dollars over to that platform.

8:38

In fact, I recently emailed Amber Vin's

8:40

box from Rewards Style and she

8:42

says they're also working with influencers on TikTok.

8:45

So everyone is always moving

8:47

forward. Thinking

8:49

about this is exhausting, and it's

8:51

kind of scary. Once I finally get the

8:53

hang of one platform, and let's face

8:55

it, fail trying to be an influencer on that platform,

8:58

and there's already a new one making me and my

9:00

profession totally irrelevant. So

9:03

I guess I've got to get ahead of this game and learn

9:05

how to be a TikTok influencer.

9:08

Do you see a pattern here? I'm doing the

9:10

same thing and I'm expecting a different

9:12

outcome this time that makes me

9:15

certifiably insane. Well,

9:17

from what I've seen on TikTok so far, my craziness

9:20

might actually fly there. My first

9:23

viral, TikTok I did a trend

9:25

where you just kind of wiggled on screen

9:28

and you pointed to things on the screen

9:30

because TikTok allows

9:32

you to caption things to add

9:34

words. It was over a hundred thousand

9:36

views and tell me wiggle.

9:40

You've got a hundred thousand views from Should

9:42

I when we get off? Should I go wiggle? Or is that

9:44

over? Wiggle? And pointing

9:46

seems to be the thing. And bathroom

9:48

mirrors, what do you do with bathroom

9:51

mirrors? You say things? Shut

9:56

your fucking face. I

9:59

don't get it either. That is Gwenna

10:01

Lathland on TikTok. She is known

10:03

as Mama Causes. As of this

10:05

week, she has around eight hundred and fifty thousand

10:08

followers on TikTok. Gwenna

10:11

is hilarious. She's hilarious

10:14

and raw, and she curses even more than

10:16

I do. Seriously, she

10:18

makes fun of herself and her kids and her messy

10:20

life. She's essentially the polar opposite

10:23

of most successful mom influencers

10:25

on Instagram. She's got technicolor

10:27

hair and Neon I shadow, and

10:29

her look is this far cry from

10:31

the young blonde Mormon mom influencers

10:34

that we met in episode one. Now,

10:36

the clean cut moms do exist on TikTok,

10:39

but on the talk it

10:42

is much easier to stumble upon

10:44

a way more diverse group of moms.

10:47

Gwenna is a mom of three and

10:49

her oldest was eleven when her

10:51

twins were born. One of my first

10:54

TikTok's was me just trying to

10:56

wrangle my twin. I think they were

10:58

sixteen seventeen months old. I'm

11:00

into my lap for a picture. So

11:03

getting those instagram worthy pictures

11:06

is a lot. And

11:09

that was the first kind of movement

11:11

where I was like, you know what I can do this.

11:14

I can normalize modern motherhood.

11:16

We can celebrate those instagram worthy

11:18

moments. But can we also discuss

11:21

that I'm covered in carrot

11:23

juice and I don't remember

11:25

the last time I pooped by myself? This

11:28

right here, this is what I've been talking about for nine

11:30

episodes. Now. How can we normalize

11:33

the messiness of motherhood? How

11:36

can we get paid for that? Ship? It

11:38

doesn't feel like there is a huge

11:40

place for that. Not on Instagram

11:42

maybe, but not on branded Instagram, not on

11:44

the Instagram where you might make money from

11:46

it. They want they want perfect. Brands

11:48

still want perfect. They don't like I'm

11:51

not sure that that's entirely true.

11:54

I have brands that look at

11:56

everything that I do and

11:58

They're like, yeah, we still want to work with you. We

12:00

like the reality, because that's the thing is

12:02

as social media continues to grow

12:05

and evolve. When it first started,

12:07

it was Hollywood magic. We liked

12:10

the legs on the beach shot, even

12:12

though we know our legs do not look

12:14

like that and we're never going to make it to a fucking beach.

12:18

Okay, So, as of right now, Gwenna does not

12:20

make a full time income on TikTok, but

12:22

it is a solid side hustle and she's

12:25

working our way up. Hearing about

12:27

Gwenna's work made me rethink everything

12:29

that we already talked about about Instagram

12:31

authenticity. I mean, I'm now I'm

12:34

kind of wondering is the market actually opening

12:36

up for real and messy moms

12:39

and does that mean that I've got a chance. Of

12:41

course, I asked Gwenna about the logistics

12:43

of this. What makes a good TikTok.

12:46

TikTok is a whole different beast as far as content

12:48

creation goes um because

12:50

you do only have that you have sixty seconds,

12:53

and you've got an audience

12:55

for sixty seconds, and you have to catch them

12:57

in the first ten or they're just going to scroll on Beca

13:00

is TikTok like all the rest of them, have

13:02

infinite scroll. It's never going to stop as

13:04

long as your thumb can flick upward. You've

13:06

got more and you don't have to

13:09

invest your precious sixty seconds

13:11

and something that feels like ship to you.

13:14

TikTok also has these new functions that

13:16

Instagram does not have a whole new vocabulary.

13:20

Gwenna told me about something called quote duetting,

13:23

and it doesn't have anything to do with

13:25

swingers like I thought. It might

13:28

do it as a TikTok function where it

13:31

puts up the original video and you're

13:33

added content. You're watching the original

13:36

video and you have the opportunity to either

13:38

add to or react to in

13:40

this side panel screen. The other

13:42

thing that helps a lot is getting a

13:45

big creator to uh

13:47

to connect with you. Oh

13:50

but you're a big and I just am a big creator.

13:53

Yeah, you've connected to me. Yeah.

13:55

Gwened does not want to do

13:58

it me. Did you hear her to own?

14:00

It's the same tone that Tanya Nagara

14:02

used when she did not want to tell me too much

14:04

about her comment pods. Because no one really

14:06

wants to let you into their sorority. Joe Piazza,

14:09

but I just kept hitting her with really annoying

14:11

questions. Anyway, and

14:13

how important is music? Because I'm wondering

14:16

if I can exclusively only use

14:18

Abba songs. Yes

14:22

you could, You'll get seven followers.

14:24

Um, that's

14:28

all right, okay,

14:31

God. A part of me is like, I'm so

14:33

excited, and another part of me is like, how

14:37

drug am I going to have to get tonight

14:39

to try this? Actually, the drunk or

14:41

the better. Often if you're four friendly,

14:44

that helps too. So I plotted

14:46

out my TikTok much like my

14:48

Instagram attempts. I wanted to be funny and

14:50

relatable and real and dare

14:52

I say it authentic.

14:57

So We're out at a cabin in the woods with our

15:00

pandemic bubble friends having

15:02

a passover staterr. It was so wonderful

15:04

because all of our kids jumped on the trampoline like all

15:06

day long. I didn't have to parent ever

15:09

anyway, So the kids begged me to jump

15:11

on the trampoline and I did it. I

15:13

jumped, and then I pee my

15:15

pants because two babies

15:18

have come out of my vagina. I'm not just telling

15:20

you this story for fun. I'm telling you because

15:22

it made me think, what is more real as

15:24

a mom on TikTok than paying your

15:26

pants on a trampoline. I brought it up

15:28

at the Stater Peptok

15:34

right after we finish our our passover Sater.

15:37

But if we are going I'm going to do,

15:41

We're gonna, We're gonna try. I'm gonna try

15:43

to break I'm gonna try

15:45

to break TikTok with my video

15:48

jumping on the trampoline. So

15:50

I put my glass of wine down on a log

15:52

in the middle of the woods. I put on some

15:54

Mamma Mia, and I

15:57

bounced. Now,

16:00

of course this should be the part of

16:02

the episode where I play you the

16:04

TikTok video, but I cannot

16:06

do that because I cannot legally play you

16:08

any mom a miya, So you will just have to

16:10

go to my TikTok. Trust me, I can use

16:13

the views. Six seven

16:15

people watched that video. No

16:18

one liked it. Gwenna did

16:20

not choose to do it me. I

16:23

still want to understand the benefit of all

16:26

this labor. Gwenna connected me to another

16:28

one of her mom Talk friends. I

16:30

am Tory Phantom. I have three

16:32

little kids and I spend

16:34

a whole lot of time on TikTok. I

16:37

do a few things there and it's very

16:40

much family lifestyle centered.

16:42

Tori yet another mom who turned to TikTok

16:44

to get through the worst moments of the pandemic.

16:47

Oh, I want to let you know that Tori uses

16:49

they them pronouns. So those are the pronouns

16:51

we're going to use in this episode. Twenty

16:54

years after Mom's blogged away their loneliness,

16:56

people like Tory and Gwenna have been

16:58

tiktoking away their loneliness.

17:01

But I cannot stress enough how powerful

17:04

it is to find your community like this. A

17:07

really fun part of this is just

17:09

the networking alone and meeting these people

17:11

who I never would have had

17:13

the opportunity to otherwise. And

17:17

I mean even Gwenna, who you

17:19

spoke with, I mean her and I and what world

17:21

would we have met? And now we're such great

17:23

friends. And it's such a cool thing

17:25

that we can share this experience of

17:27

being influencers and have someone who

17:29

gets it to talk to you about it. In

17:32

Tori's first year on TikTok, they've been

17:34

able to grow a really strong following

17:37

in a short amount of time. They

17:39

have a little over a million followers. Get

17:41

regular brand deals and signed

17:44

with a talent agency. They also already

17:46

have a deal to write a cookbook. All of

17:48

that in one year. But

17:51

the good news is they feel like they're just getting

17:54

started. I would say

17:56

it is becoming a business. I am in

17:58

the beginning of that. Um

18:01

Joining social media has totally changed

18:03

my life. I

18:05

am planning to grow into a real

18:08

business where social media will be

18:10

more of a vehicle for a business

18:13

than just me posting content

18:15

and having fun. Because I think

18:18

the thing with being an influencer is

18:20

there there is money in that, which is

18:22

great, but for me, it feels like something that

18:24

isn't super stable or reliable

18:27

because it's it's the Internet. We watch

18:29

social media platforms come and go all

18:32

the time, and as

18:34

I am a mom nearing thirty with

18:36

three children, I'm like, Okay,

18:38

well, I need to find a way to turn this into

18:40

something reliable where instead

18:43

of counting on brand deals, I'm really counting

18:45

on myself. And so I'm really in the beginnings

18:47

of that, but I have a lot of faith in

18:49

myself that I'm going to be able to turn

18:51

this into something more tor

18:54

so smart. Focusing on one platform

18:56

doesn't make sense right now. People

18:58

who are successful in social media should take

19:01

all of the money and run with it. Just

19:03

take it all, Take it all while it is still

19:05

available, while that platform still exists.

19:08

Influencing means becoming your own brand, and

19:10

when you become a brand, you constantly

19:12

have to innovate. It

19:17

makes sense to me as a reporter and a writer, but

19:19

the truth is constantly innovating is

19:22

exhausting. I've worked

19:24

for so many media companies that just fucking

19:26

disappeared overnight. I found out my

19:28

job at Yahoo was over because I got a

19:30

text message while climbing Mount Kilimanjaro

19:32

and my honeymoon. Yep, they're

19:35

like, sorry, happy honeymoon. You

19:37

don't have a job when you get home from Africa.

19:41

And y'all, who was like the stupid hybrid of tech

19:43

and media and tech like, media is

19:46

just constantly changing, and that means

19:48

that even though these creators are making money, they

19:50

still need some kind of safety net. No

19:53

matter how savvy they are. Everyone needs a safety

19:56

net. So I'm not the only one that thinks this. There's

19:58

very smart people out there know that influencers

20:01

are the future of content, and

20:03

they're investing in them too. We'll

20:06

hear from them after the break back.

20:21

In February, sag Aftra, that's

20:23

Hollywood's biggest union. They represent

20:25

actors and television and radio artists.

20:28

They announced that they would be letting influencers

20:31

into the fold, just like any

20:33

other commercial performer. Once

20:35

in the union, influencers would be eligible

20:37

for things like pension and health benefits,

20:40

all based off the earnings they make as an influencer.

20:43

Why, you may ask, because sag

20:45

Aftra recognized that this, this

20:48

right here is the future of content.

20:53

I think it's going to be an embracing of a whole new

20:55

way of storytelling that will become

20:57

ageless. And we want to make

21:00

sure that those individuals, even though they might

21:02

be starting for one thing, if they decided

21:04

to really pursue this as an ongoing profession

21:07

or a form of expression, that they can

21:09

do it with a sense of safety and dignity

21:12

and excitement. Right. We want to give

21:14

them the ability to love what they do

21:17

and not feel that they're compromising when

21:19

they're doing it. I called

21:21

the president of the sag after Union,

21:23

by the way, because that's what I do. I call the people

21:26

who are doing the things. I'm Gabrielle

21:28

Carters from a Mom, an actor and

21:30

I'm a president of sag After. I've

21:33

been a big fan of Gabrielle since I was in middle

21:35

school, back when she played Andrea

21:37

Zuckerman on Beverly Hills Nano two Who,

21:43

which, by the way, was my high school boyfriend Kurt's

21:45

favorite show. He had every episode

21:47

on VHS. At one time. I lost the episode

21:50

where Kelly and Dylan hooked up while Brenda was

21:52

in France, and he didn't talk to me for like a month.

21:54

Anyway, I called Gabrielle to ask her why

21:56

sag After made this decision, the

21:59

big decision to bring influencers independent

22:01

creators into their fold. Influencers

22:04

we like to call them independent creators. And

22:07

it's not just bringing independent creators

22:09

within our union. We actually have a lot of

22:11

our members doing that work. It's

22:14

a booning part of our industry

22:16

when you think about it, it's brands

22:19

recognize it. Particularly

22:21

through this pandemic, people

22:23

have really discovered the

22:25

ability that they're able to use technology

22:28

and to become independent creators. As

22:30

a union, it's really important for us to be

22:32

nimble. Truth is, because

22:34

we are a part of an evolving industry.

22:37

It's very important that we evolve with it. Gabrielle.

22:40

I kind of want to call it Gabby by the way, but I

22:42

don't think we're close enough yet. Gabrielle

22:45

was quick to tell me that a lot of actors

22:47

and the talent that they're already working with

22:49

are already doing influencer work,

22:52

but they also want to bring this new

22:54

generation of content creators into

22:56

the fold. People who are doing this independent

22:59

creator's work or this influence or

23:01

work, they need to have representation

23:03

there. It's like the wild wild West out there.

23:06

There's a benefit for the brands, and

23:08

it's important for the person who's creating

23:10

to also have those benefits. We want to make

23:12

sure they have protections. Is a person who's

23:14

doing this kind of work, all you have is

23:17

yourself, so we want to make sure to

23:19

protect your image, so that

23:21

is you storytell and you go and move on.

23:23

That they have the protections that they need, that

23:26

they can make a living at what they're doing,

23:28

and that they are able to work with dignity

23:31

and not to be exploited.

23:34

I was getting fired up during

23:36

this call with all the talk about

23:38

protecting workers and treating influencers

23:40

like the serious content creators that they are

23:43

see. Whenever I pitched this podcast

23:45

to editors when I asked them to write about me

23:47

and to give me press. It gets dismissed

23:50

as a parenting story. But it's not a

23:52

parenting story. Mom Influencers

23:54

are a business story. And it's

23:57

a huge relief that Gabrielle and sag

23:59

Aftra are treating it like a business.

24:02

Now, like any business, there are contracts

24:05

and requirements that people would need to fulfill.

24:09

So the contract that we've established will be

24:11

something that is it in its success

24:13

will start to evolve and really

24:16

and capture more and more protections. But initially,

24:19

if somebody is able to even work under this contract,

24:21

that actually allows them to also pay into a

24:23

pension and health plan, which really

24:25

is meaningful for people. This

24:28

is a safety net, and

24:30

you know who needs a safety net, creators,

24:33

particularly mom creators.

24:36

So you're talking about moms who are doing this work,

24:38

which is kind of exciting. I

24:40

just love that women are constantly

24:43

and I say this, I know everybody

24:45

doesn't, but it is really true. Women

24:48

are constantly reinventing

24:50

themselves in different ways. And I'm

24:52

so proud, you know, to hear

24:55

that. I just love hearing moms doing this because

24:57

it's I know it might be something that they're trying

24:59

to do to earn money, but also it

25:01

becomes a form of expression for them. Right

25:04

that ability to tell a story

25:06

and to know that, uh, that

25:08

somebody has their back is great. Gabrielle's

25:11

excitement was like palpable during our call.

25:13

I could feel it. It was maybe even

25:15

bigger than my excitement during the high

25:17

school graduation episode of No No Too. Gabrielle

25:21

wants influencers to call them. I hope

25:23

that people follow and look into

25:25

being a part of this call the Union if

25:27

you have questions, and we look forward

25:30

to celebrating and really

25:32

lifting up all the individuals who want to have

25:34

the opportunity to be

25:37

able to do this work and under a protected

25:39

universe. We want to be there for them. And I'm

25:42

excited. I just I love the idea that

25:44

we're being nimble, that we're really

25:47

paying attention to the industry as

25:49

it transforms, and

25:51

that we are creating a space for people.

25:53

I love it. I

25:56

love it to Gabby. I'm just

25:58

going to call her Gabby. I hope is okay

26:00

with that. Influencing, mom,

26:02

influencing. This is a fucking business.

26:05

It's a business, motherfucker's and I love

26:07

the people that treat it like one. When

26:09

I first started this podcast, I was worried

26:11

that a lot of mom influencers would

26:14

hate it, that they would hate me, and

26:16

some people do because some people hate everything.

26:20

But a lot of them have written to me and said thanks,

26:23

thanks for seeing me, thanks

26:26

for reporting on what I do like it matters.

26:30

As this profession gets more and more formalized,

26:33

I know that I need to make a decision, the

26:35

decision that all of you have been waiting nine episodes

26:38

for. I gotta figure out

26:40

my own future, my own path

26:42

forward. And so for the last

26:44

time this season, I

26:46

am going to call glumness. Oh

26:50

hi, what

26:52

are you banging on? Don't bang? Taking

26:55

the volume down so you don't make me deaf because

26:58

I'm loud now I just had the volume up. I think

27:02

I really want to know, like, how do you

27:04

feel? Right now? It's

27:09

so nice when someone asks you how you

27:11

feel? Not how are you doing?

27:13

How do you feel? To tell me how you

27:16

feel? I would like I'd like to replace

27:18

how are you doing with how do you feel?

27:20

I think it's a better It's just

27:22

a better question. So I'm

27:24

going to drop the bomb right now. I'm just gonna boom.

27:27

This is going to be a bomb on me too. I don't know this.

27:29

I don't want to be a mom influencer. Oh

27:32

I do know that. No, No, it's done.

27:34

It's done, and it's done because for

27:36

my self care, I need

27:38

to separate work and personal

27:41

I need a separation and I did

27:43

not have that through all of my twenties and most

27:45

of my early thirties because I was a

27:47

reporter in news breaks all the time. Now

27:52

I need to separate my work life in my personal

27:54

life. And if my kids and my family are part

27:56

of my work life, I cannot do that. So

27:58

I do not want to be a mom infilucer. I respect

28:00

the hell out of them, I don't want to do

28:02

it. Do you want to keep going as

28:05

Joe the reporter? And this is an and

28:07

or question, and or

28:10

do you want to explore some of these other

28:12

avenues as an influencer? Essentially,

28:15

what it feels like, It's like there's an influencer

28:17

for every niche. But I mean,

28:19

here's the trap we all go down. It's

28:22

definitely more enjoyable to be a cottage influencer

28:25

than a mob influencer. But then I have this feeling

28:27

like if we explored it, it would be

28:30

an endless nightmare of you

28:32

know, do these wooden hinges fit together

28:34

correctly? And how is the pillow throne? But I don't

28:36

know, Like, was there anything about

28:38

exploring being an influencer

28:41

yourself that made you

28:43

think, Oh, I'd be okay doing this

28:46

if it the subject matter was shifted slightly.

28:48

I don't know. Um,

28:51

I know that I want to keep experimenting in

28:53

this world. I want to keep going. If

28:56

I want to be a storyteller in the world, then

28:59

I need to figure out how to use these platforms.

29:01

And I also think there's so much money on the table. And

29:03

we've said this before. I love money and I love

29:05

making money. So maybe you're right. Maybe I'm a

29:08

cottage cabin influencer. This

29:10

clearly is the future of where content

29:12

is going, whether we like it or not, and

29:14

so it's either evolved

29:16

as a storyteller or don't be

29:18

a storyteller anymore. I genuinely

29:21

believe that you are such a storyteller

29:23

that I am

29:25

extremely curious to see because

29:27

you have such good instincts where

29:30

these instincts point you next, I

29:33

have a sweater for your cottage influencing

29:36

Instagram that I bought for you,

29:38

so let's like

29:41

see you in the country. Maybe I don't.

29:43

I don't know. I but I think that there is still

29:45

room for me in the influencer space, not

29:47

as a mom influencer, especially because

29:50

I don't think that I can do that. Like I'm out

29:52

of the baby phase now. I don't

29:54

think that I can be a mom influencer unless I have more

29:56

kids. But my

29:58

period is LA again, so

30:02

pregnancy or early menopause,

30:05

you could be a menopause influencer. Menopause

30:07

is suddenly the hottest topic. You could be a menopause

30:10

influencer. That's the next thing. I

30:12

don't think women of our generation are going quietly,

30:14

so this disappearing

30:17

after forty five is going

30:19

to be I think menopause influencers.

30:22

Maybe that's it. Joe, would you listen

30:24

to a podcast from a menopause

30:27

influencer? You know the answer

30:29

is yes. I fully believe

30:31

you could be a paramenopause influencer if

30:33

that's what you wanted, or a cottage influencer

30:35

or a cottage influencer. Mm hmm. I

30:38

have faith in you, all right, guys,

30:41

stay tuned, stay stay tuned.

30:44

My friends should we close it out with some

30:46

abba. Absolutely, yes,

30:49

it's the name of the game. It's the

30:51

name of the game. Wait or money

30:54

money, money, um

30:56

yeah? Or mamma Mia, mamma

30:59

Mia, here I'm go again? My my?

31:02

How can I resist? You? Curtain

31:07

down and seen? But

31:16

wait, hey you

31:19

okay? Are you guys still here? It's not

31:21

over? How could it be over? There

31:23

is still so much that we have not covered.

31:26

We haven't talked about adoption influencers,

31:28

or l g B t Q influencers, or

31:30

celebrity influencers. Yes,

31:33

the celebrities who make away more money

31:36

influencing you to buy things than they do doing

31:38

TV or movies or music. We

31:40

can't end yet. Someone who's going to have

31:42

to drag me kicking and screaming out of my closet.

31:45

I want to keep going. So

31:48

if we're all going to stay under the influence, there's

31:50

a few things we need to get straight. We

31:53

need to demand fair wages for

31:55

all influencers. We need to

31:57

hold social media platforms and to tap

32:00

ask for making billions off

32:02

influence our content. If all

32:04

of the men in all of the ivory towers of

32:06

Silicon Valley are making billions

32:09

from the women who are producing the content and

32:11

the women should be making a lot of money to This

32:15

reminds me of a time in Iceland back

32:17

in nineteen. You didn't

32:19

think we were going to go to Iceland in nine, did

32:22

you, But here we are. On

32:25

October

32:29

of women in Iceland went on strike. They

32:31

didn't do housework, they didn't buy anything,

32:34

they didn't participate in the economy, and

32:36

they shut it all the fun down.

32:39

People in Iceland still look back on that day

32:42

as the day the entire country started

32:45

paying better attention to women and the work that they

32:47

do. Imagine if all of us went

32:49

off social media for just one

32:51

day, we would destroy

32:54

it. We would destroy the entire

32:56

system.

32:59

Maybe that something we should do in season two. Now,

33:03

of course, I don't know yet if we are deemed

33:05

influential enough to have a season two

33:08

or my boss is listening. So

33:10

there's one last thing I do want to address. It

33:13

is you, you, my listener,

33:16

You my favorite people, my favorite

33:18

people in the whole world, the audience,

33:21

and I assume the audience of lots

33:23

of the influencers we've talked to you this season.

33:26

I want to make sure that you guys are

33:28

protected to I want to protect

33:30

you all from the deep dark vortex of social

33:32

media. Now, I would

33:34

be a total asshole if I left you guys

33:37

out of my quest for total

33:39

social media happiness. You

33:41

deserve to be happy. So I'm gonna leave us

33:43

all with a little lesson about how we can approach

33:45

Instagram in a way that makes us all a

33:48

little happier. I

33:51

often get asked this question about whether or not Instagram

33:53

makes us happier or does it decrease our happiness.

33:56

That is Dr Laurie Santos. She

33:59

runs the most popular course in the history

34:01

of Yale University. Yeah,

34:03

the most popular course in the history of Yale. That

34:06

class Psychology and the Good Life is essentially

34:09

Happiness one oh one. Laurie

34:11

also has a spectacular podcast called The Happiness

34:14

Lab, and I was very lucky to get her

34:16

to give us a mini course on how to be

34:18

happier while we use social media. Instagram

34:21

doesn't make us as happy as we think. I think a

34:24

big one is social comparison, you

34:26

know, And so that negative social comparison, the research

34:28

shows, can really affect our happiness. So if

34:30

we're constantly bombarded by individuals

34:32

who are, you know, seem richer than us or

34:35

better looking than us, or have cooler jobs

34:37

than us, that can sometimes negatively

34:39

affect our happiness. One

34:41

of my favorite pieces of advice comes from a journalist,

34:43

Katherine Price, who I interviewed on my podcast

34:45

The Happiness Lab. She mentioned that

34:47

if we really want to interact well with social

34:50

media Instagram and other tools, we

34:52

need to ask ourselves a mindful question

34:55

um. She She even gives us an acronym for the questions

34:57

we should ask ourselves. She calls it w W dep

35:00

you what for? Why

35:04

now? And

35:07

what else? You

35:10

know? So? What did I help on Instagram for? Maybe I specifically

35:13

wanted to make a post or really wanted to check

35:15

a specific post on Instagram. Maybe

35:17

I was feeling bored or anxious, maybe I was feeling

35:19

lonely. Right, when you ask the what Ford

35:21

question, you can really try to assess

35:23

whether or not you're getting on Instagram

35:25

for the right reasons. Then

35:28

you ask the why now right, And that's kind of

35:30

being mindful about what drives you to Instagram.

35:32

Is it because you're feeling curious and excited

35:34

about what you're going to see, or maybe it's because you're

35:36

feeling bored or anxious, or you're not in

35:39

a good space, right, you know, why are

35:41

you going on there now? And then the

35:43

most important question is what else? Right?

35:45

You know, we can spend you know, hours on

35:48

Instagram, Right, what else could you be doing

35:50

with that time? What's the opportunity cost of

35:52

you using Instagram?

35:55

I think all of these tools can potentially

35:57

improve our happiness if we use them

35:59

in the right way, and if we're mindful that we

36:01

tend to be using them in ways that are building

36:03

us up rather than depleting us. I

36:08

don't want to be depleted. I want

36:10

to enjoy my life. I want my

36:12

cup to run it so full that

36:14

I pe on the trampoline. Lori's

36:17

suggestions were so good, But

36:20

now every time that I opened Instagram,

36:22

I'm like, why am I doing this? And most

36:24

of the time the answer is I'm doing

36:26

this out of habit. I had absolutely

36:29

zero reason to be here. And

36:32

you know what, it's making me happier. I'm

36:34

off the social media way more

36:36

than I was when we started this podcast, and

36:38

I like my life a little better. And I think my kids

36:41

like my life a little better too. They're

36:44

happy that I'm not taking pictures of them all the time.

36:47

In fact, Charlie has started taking

36:49

pictures of all of us. So maybe it's really Charlie

36:51

who's going to be the influencer here. He

36:54

keeps telling me he's going to be an artist. Charlie,

36:58

where do you want to be when you grow up high?

37:03

Only an artist? All

37:05

right, you're beautiful artists. You take

37:07

you take good pictures, are

37:20

so guys. I'm signing off for now. I

37:23

really am this is over. Yeah,

37:25

but you know, late at night, when I'm hiding in my bathroom

37:27

or trying to poop without my kids banging down the door,

37:30

it will still be on the GRAM. I

37:32

am always under the influence and always

37:34

thinking about all of the things that come with

37:36

that. And I love

37:39

knowing that all of you are too, that

37:42

we're all in this together. That is

37:45

some community building, bitches. Thank

37:48

you for joining me on this journey.

37:54

Under the Influence is reported and hosted

37:56

by me Joe Piazza, our

37:59

story editor. He's going us McNichol. Emily

38:01

Maronoth is our producer. Sound

38:03

designed by Emily Maronof and Jackie Huntingdon's.

38:06

Our theme and additional music was composed

38:08

by Jessica Cranchich. Mixing

38:10

done by Jackie Huntingdon's and additional research

38:12

conducted by Jocelyn Sears. Julian

38:15

Weller is our consulting producer, and

38:17

Manga Chatika Door is our executive producer

38:20

and a grand wizard. Special

38:22

thanks to you, to you, our audience,

38:25

because you have pop and fucking rock stars. Thank

38:27

you to all of you for sharing this, for

38:29

reviewing this, for telling literally

38:32

people strangers that you've met on the street to

38:34

listen to this podcast. Keep it coming, guys,

38:36

I'm not gonna tell you to stop. Keep going. We're

38:39

influential, that's what we are. And

38:41

special thanks to my husband Nick and my children

38:44

for you know, given me this

38:46

idea in the first place and driving me

38:48

so crazy that I became addicted to Instagram.

38:52

And finally, for those of you who are

38:54

curious, yes, I

38:57

still despise Julia Roberts. Good

39:00

bye and good night, my friends,