0:11

Hey, gang. Welcome

0:11

to another episode of under the

0:13

law, the podcast full of

0:13

interviews with folks who

0:16

recently participated in goruck

0:16

events. In today's episode, we

0:19

talked to Larry, and another guy

0:19

named Larry.

0:24

That's right. We're talking to

0:24

two guys named Larry.

0:28

We're going to talk to them

0:28

about their recent goruck brag

0:31

heavy. In addition, we'll talk

0:31

to them about what it's like to

0:35

be a father and son doing events

0:35

together. And they've done a

0:38

few, like somewhere near 50.

0:38

It's pretty awesome.

0:48

Before we get started, if you

0:48

appreciate the podcast and want

0:51

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1:07

Alright, enough of that. Let's

1:07

get on to the interview.

1:18

All right, so Larry, and, Larry,

1:18

I've done a few events with you

1:24

guys. And I have to say that

1:24

like one of my, one of my

1:27

favorite parts is is during roll

1:27

call. So cadre is there. And

1:32

he's calling off the names and

1:32

all of a sudden he'll he'll say,

1:35

you know, Larry Shaffer, which

1:35

is pretty much always followed

1:39

with both of you saying out

1:39

loud, which one? And the CADRE

1:44

will usually say Jr, at which

1:44

point, Larry, the dad in this

1:49

situation will be like, Oh,

1:49

that's me. And it never ceases

1:53

to amaze me. The cadre just kind

1:53

of stares at you stares at the

1:57

stares at your son. And is just

1:57

like, I don't know what to do

2:01

with this information. Is Is

2:01

that pretty much what happens at

2:04

every event that you guys do?

2:07

You I think it is

2:07

nowadays that we've done enough

2:10

of these things. Most of the

2:10

CADRE know us now but

2:12

occasionally no doubt. They say

2:12

Larry Larry and they get totally

2:16

confused.

2:17

In all seriousness,

2:17

like how am I supposed to do

2:20

this interview with you guys?

2:20

like should I should I address

2:24

you is like Larry Jr. and Larry,

2:24

the third old Larry young Larry,

2:28

like, like, how's this gonna work?

2:31

Anything works for

2:31

me. I've been called trip tray

2:34

three. Anything works. Okay, I

2:34

know f f three causes old Larry

2:39

and young Larry which, you know,

2:39

make some sense to. Okay.

2:44

Well, I'll just say,

2:44

Larry, and just see which one of

2:46

you takes it. Let you fight it

2:46

out. So we're gonna talk today,

2:55

obviously, about the 2021

2:55

GORUCK Fort Bragg heavy event

3:00

hat you guys both completed

3:00

ecently.

3:04

But I think I think I've just

3:04

got to begin at the beginning

3:09

with you guys. I mean, a father

3:09

and son doing goruck events

3:14

together. It's an it's pretty

3:14

cool thing. And as you

3:19

mentioned, like I've done a ton

3:19

of events like, like, How many?

3:22

How many events? Have you guys done now?

3:25

We calculated the

3:25

other day, we've done over 40

3:28

events together? Holy cow, and

3:28

they've done some separately?

3:32

Yes. You know, Casey, we won't

3:32

travel for a tough flight. But

3:35

we'll travel for the bigger ones

3:35

we've done. I think we've done

3:38

well. I know we've done five

3:38

hdls together. And then he's got

3:42

12 heavies under his belt. I

3:42

only have 10.

3:46

Just 10. That's a

3:50

double heavy, the

3:50

double heavy together as well.

3:53

So yeah, that was

3:53

that was that last year or the

3:56

year before?

3:57

That was last year?

3:59

Yep. Okay, this is

3:59

gonna happen. The whole podcast.

4:04

Yeah, this this is

4:04

my first time interviewing two

4:07

people at the same time. So

4:07

it'll be fun. So So you've done

4:12

you've done a ton of events

4:12

together.And separately, but I

4:18

guess I guess I'll start with,

4:18

with older Larry, like how to

4:24

tell tell us the origin story

4:24

for you guys. Like what is the

4:27

Larry and Larry gorakh origin

4:27

story? How did y'all even get

4:30

into this?

4:32

Well, you know, we

4:32

started doing adventure races

4:34

way back when they were popular.

4:34

And then we evolved into OCR

4:38

races. We were doing those together when he was still living at home. And he and

4:40

little area actually did the

4:44

first goruck event. He did a

4:44

tough, a tough and then a tough

4:47

flight. Then he calls me up says

4:47

Hey, Dad, there's this thing

4:50

called go rock. You know, we got

4:50

to give it a try. Come on up to

4:53

Virginia Beach and we'll do it.

4:53

So I packed up an old rock and

4:57

six bricks. And, you know, I did

4:57

a tough

5:00

Light and enjoyed it. And, you

5:00

know, the second event we did

5:03

was an HTML. So at that point in

5:03

time, it was either very as my

5:08

wife says, you know, you guys

5:08

are just stupid crazy. But it is

5:12

something that we've enjoyed,

5:12

you know, doing it together, you

5:14

know, go rock forges, you know,

5:14

camaraderie among people, they

5:20

don't even know each other. So

5:20

when you put a father and son

5:23

together, it's been it's been a

5:23

lot of fun. It's it's been a

5:25

great experience. And I'm just

5:25

fortunate enough at my age and

5:28

still be in good enough shape,

5:28

be able to do it. And I work

5:31

hard at it. But you know, it's,

5:33

yeah, yeah, no

5:33

doubt. I mean, I'm still a

5:37

little struck by the fact that

5:37

your second event was an HTML

5:41

like, I don't I don't think I

5:41

knew that. So letting that set

5:45

in is that's eye opening. I

5:45

mean, that's no joke. I wonder

5:50

you You said that Larry had done

5:50

a tough light.

5:54

Larry, was that the

5:54

one that we did together? I

5:58

believe so. That was Richmond.

5:58

Yes. So that was my, I did one

6:03

tough in Virginia Beach. And

6:03

then I did the Richmond one with

6:06

you. And it was a tough flight.

6:06

And then I called my dad, like

6:10

he said, and we did the Virginia

6:10

Beach again, the following year.

6:13

Man, that's really cool. I

6:13

didn't know that. That was my

6:17

that tough flight was my first

6:17

tough flight. And that was

6:19

actually my second event. I

6:19

think so. I mean, I think that

6:23

was like, gosh, four or five

6:23

years ago now. almost five.

6:27

Yeah.

6:28

That's, that's wild.

6:28

So with this with doing so many

6:35

events, you know, some together

6:35

some some separate? Like,

6:39

what's, what's the driver for

6:39

deciding events for you guys? Is

6:43

it just like, hey, there's one,

6:43

you know, nearby? Let's go like,

6:47

at 50 events? I mean, you've got

6:47

to just be cranking them out

6:50

left and right.

6:51

Well, usually we

6:51

won't travel unless it is a, you

6:55

know, a significant one, whether

6:55

you know, whether that be we

6:59

went to we went to to France for

6:59

the 75th anniversary of

7:04

Normandy, which was phenomenal.

7:04

And then we'll do the HTL as

7:07

always together. And then if

7:07

there's a tough light that's

7:11

driving distance in between,

7:11

they will just hook up there. So

7:14

it really is just a matter of,

7:14

you know, can we get there? And

7:17

of course, the big events are

7:17

the ones that we sometimes we

7:20

have to fly to. But, you know,

7:20

that's just money we spend.

7:23

Yeah. So So what was

7:23

the what was the drive to do? Or

7:29

the decision for doing the Bragg

7:29

heavy? Like, what? What? Why did

7:34

y'all decide to do this one?

7:36

Alright, so we did,

7:36

we started Bragg back when drone

7:41

passed away. So that was that

7:41

was going to be our first brag

7:45

heavy. And since we didn't get

7:45

that check in the block. This

7:50

one was supposed to be special.

7:50

We heard from cadre Dan, that it

7:53

might possibly be his last brag,

7:53

but obviously he's local. Now he

7:59

thought he was going to get

7:59

overseas orders. But I was

8:02

basically told my dad, it's now

8:02

or possibly who knows when so

8:08

just so happened that we decided

8:08

to do it. So

8:12

nice. I will tell you

8:12

going into it, though Ryan is is

8:16

both of us to say we're only

8:16

going to do the first one.

8:19

Because we had other things

8:19

coming up in the future. We

8:21

didn't want to over overshoot

8:21

herself. So it was kind of

8:23

interesting that everybody's like, Oh, I can't believe the Larry's aren't going to do both.

8:25

I can't believe the Larry's

8:27

aren't gonna do both. The good

8:27

news is I only signed up for

8:30

one. So I do not feel bad

8:30

leaving. And I'm like, Can you

8:35

maybe ask I can tell you what

8:35

the hardest event is and the

8:37

most miserable. And anybody who

8:37

was at Bragg this year, I would

8:41

tell you that they will tell you

8:41

it was by far the most miserable

8:44

event ever. I mean, it was not

8:44

It was hard as all its heavies

8:48

are, but it was misery. It was

8:48

cold and it was raining the

8:52

entire time. It's horrible.

8:56

Larry, you can

8:56

confirm. miserable and one of

9:00

the hardest.

9:01

Definitely most

9:01

miserable. The first Cleveland

9:05

heavy. The double heavy was our

9:05

hardest. We both agreed on that

9:07

one too. But as far as misery

9:07

goes, Yeah, it was this year's

9:11

Bragg heavy for us.

9:12

Okay. Wow. I mean,

9:12

that's saying something because

9:15

you you've got some context to

9:15

put that in.

9:18

And then like, like

9:18

Larry said, the most difficult

9:21

of all the events was the first

9:21

24 hours of the double heavy in

9:24

Cleveland in August of last

9:24

year. And it wasn't the coupons,

9:27

although there were plenty. It

9:27

was it was Cowdray Dan and Qadri

9:31

bill. And as Qadri Dan said at

9:31

one point time and his

9:35

vernacular, I'll keep it clean

9:35

was I didn't believe I never

9:38

knew Cleveland had so many

9:38

hills. And we start we started

9:43

out on a ski slope. And we spent

9:43

the entire 24 hours on those,

9:47

you know, as Dan calls in those

9:47

expletive hills, it was a bear.

9:52

It was it was a tough one.

9:54

Yes, if you're

9:54

starting on ski slopes, it's not

9:56

going to be a good time. Hey

9:56

gang. This is the part of the

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10:42

Alright, enough of that. Let's

10:42

get back to our chat with Larry

10:46

and Larry. So I was just wondering like

10:55

with you guys, I mean, with so

11:00

many events, I mean, I know like

11:00

for my first heavy, like, I

11:04

trained my butt off. And, and,

11:04

you know, I feel like I don't

11:11

train with nearly as much

11:11

intensity to do events. So like

11:15

when you've got a big event

11:15

coming up like the Bragg heavy.

11:19

Like, like, do you ramp up your

11:19

training? or What does the

11:22

training look like for you guys

11:22

these days?

11:28

Yeah, we've, like my

11:28

dad said, we've been doing

11:30

endurance events for years. So

11:30

we've kind of had a leg up when

11:34

we even started to go wreck

11:34

events, as far as training, but

11:37

we focus a lot on sandbags focus

11:37

a lot on just heavy miles, at

11:43

least I do. I do more heavy

11:43

miles and actual miles. I think

11:46

for the Bragg heavy. For the

11:46

couple months leading up to it,

11:51

I may be rocked a total of 15

11:51

miles. But I always had like 65

11:56

pounds in my ruck and a 50 or 80

11:56

pound sandbag on me. And then

12:01

just throwing sandbags, lifting

12:01

them over your head, and

12:05

basically just getting ideas

12:05

from previous events and just

12:09

going from there.

12:12

What about what about you, Papa Larry?

12:14

Yeah, yeah, it's a

12:14

lot of that most of it is, you

12:17

know, in the old days, you know,

12:17

I played football in college is

12:20

all about lifting heavy, but now

12:20

it's more functional strength.

12:23

So it's sandbags. It's

12:23

kettlebells. It's a lot of push

12:26

ups, a lot of pull ups. And

12:26

then, you know, as Larry said,

12:29

you know, you got to throw that

12:29

heavy bag on your shoulder every

12:31

once in a while and go out and

12:31

just crank out the miles.

12:37

So when I go back

12:37

for this interview, and do some

12:42

of the editing, I think at this

12:42

point, I'll try and cue up like

12:45

some emotional music. Because I want to talk about

12:55

Charles relationship. And Larry

13:02

Jr, you you kind of hinted at

13:02

this earlier. Like, there's

13:07

something that happens when you

13:07

do a goruck event with with

13:11

people, people that you've never

13:11

met. Like, you know, that

13:17

Richmond event that Larry and I

13:17

did together all those years

13:21

ago. I mean, I remember grabbing

13:21

breakfast with him between

13:24

events. And then I think we took

13:24

a nap in the car between events.

13:28

Yeah. And, and then, you know,

13:28

like, we've done a few other

13:31

events together. But it's like,

13:31

I totally feel like, you know,

13:36

if you were ever in town, or I

13:36

was ever in your town, like we

13:40

totally hang out, grab a beer

13:40

and just connect. And I feel I

13:44

feel that way with a lot of

13:44

people that I've done events

13:46

with. And so I just think about,

13:46

man, what, what a it builds

13:52

these special relationships,

13:52

what has that been like, as a

13:56

father and as a son, and Larry,

13:56

younger Larry, I'll let you lead

14:04

off and then your dad can follow him.

14:06

Okay. It's

14:06

incredible. I never thought that

14:10

we would be doing this together.

14:10

We've spent much more time

14:14

together over the past few

14:14

years, obviously, since I'm in

14:17

Norfolk, and he's in Georgia. So

14:17

we get to spend time together

14:20

and do these events and struggle

14:20

under logs and figure out kind

14:24

of what our breaking points are

14:24

and his strengths and my

14:28

strengths and weaknesses on

14:28

either end. But yeah, just

14:32

spending 24 plus hours under a

14:32

log with your dad, it'll it'll

14:36

get you get you know him a lot

14:36

better now. I guess. That was

14:41

cool.

14:43

Papa Larry.

14:45

Yeah, you know, like

14:45

Larry said, it is very it's a

14:47

unique situation. Occasionally

14:47

there'll be somebody at one of

14:50

the events saying oh, I hope I

14:50

can you know, do this with my

14:53

son one of these days you know,

14:53

the Larry's that's so cool. And

14:55

it is it's it's a nice testament

14:55

for us to be able to do it

14:58

together. There are times You

14:58

know, where he I recall back in

15:02

Philadelphia doing an HTML when

15:02

his feet were just shredded. And

15:06

then the father part comes out

15:06

and he's like, Oh, I'm worried

15:08

about him. I'm worried about I'm

15:08

not gonna just say Hey, he's a

15:10

big boy. We're doing these

15:10

together. He was a sufferer. You

15:14

know, he's got to go but there

15:14

are times when as a dad you

15:17

think, damn, his feet look like

15:17

crap. You know. And you and your

15:21

I just never Philadelphia he was

15:21

limping like he'd been shot. But

15:26

he got it out, we finished but

15:26

but other than that it is it's

15:29

it's a unique situation to be

15:29

able to suffer together, we have

15:31

a couple rituals. The night

15:31

before an event, we always will

15:35

get a hamburger, french fries

15:35

and a beer. So it's like your

15:39

perfect rough beer. And it's in

15:39

every event. It's a hamburger,

15:43

french fries and beer. And we do

15:43

it every time. That's pretty

15:46

cool. Man.

15:48

It's fun ny that you

15:48

brought up the the affiliate

15:51

event with with the feet because

15:51

that that was another event that

15:56

I did with you guys. And I

15:56

remember at one point we were

15:59

on. We had this movement where

15:59

we had to be completely silent.

16:04

And we get into this parking lot

16:04

and and I was just waiting for

16:08

cadre to like try and trick us

16:08

by like asking us a question or

16:12

something to get us to talk. And

16:12

and Larry, you were standing by

16:17

me and he he whispered something

16:17

to cadre whispered something to

16:21

us, and you started to answer.

16:21

And he just totally just smashed

16:24

on your foot and says, look, you just looked

16:27

at me like Dude,

16:30

what the hell did you

16:30

just do?

16:35

And man, it dawned

16:35

on me that I was just like, Oh,

16:39

what a What a jerk. I couldn't

16:39

believe I did that.

16:43

I completely forgot about that.

16:46

Yeah, that was that

16:46

was a great event. I love that.

16:49

Um, so speaking of events, man,

16:49

let's let's talk a little bit

16:52

about that brag heavy in that

16:52

misery. You know, kind of kind

16:58

of talk me through some of the

16:58

things that made it so

17:02

miserable. I mean, just

17:02

generally, I know the the

17:04

weather was was bad and cold.

17:04

But like, Talk Talk me through

17:10

some of the misery that you went through?

17:12

Well, it started

17:12

raining about an hour into it.

17:15

And it didn't stop for a full I

17:15

would say 10 to 12 hours. And

17:19

there were times when it rained

17:19

really hard. right at the

17:22

beginning there was this little

17:22

I call it a creek it's more like

17:26

a runoff. And I don't know if

17:26

you saw the videos, but you

17:29

know, we were all leaning over

17:29

that doing push ups. And you

17:33

know, and flutter kicks and we

17:33

were getting wet enough and then

17:35

one of the CADRE had a bright

17:35

idea to low crawl or to do the

17:40

tunnel of tunnel love through

17:40

the water through the water and

17:44

it was cold. But the difference

17:44

the difficulty was you were wet

17:48

the entire time. We had one

17:48

period of time where we were we

17:52

were fortunate we came in real

17:52

early among everybody else and

17:56

and Jason said priorities of

17:56

work you would normally you sit

18:00

down you take a load off the

18:00

grass or the ground was so muddy

18:03

and wet. We just stood there

18:03

with our other two partners for

18:08

like 25 minutes waiting for

18:08

everybody to show up just in the

18:10

pouring rain because you

18:10

couldn't move you did not want

18:13

to sit down and in the middle

18:13

well we had there were five

18:17

casualties you know, cold

18:17

casualties that he was that

18:20

Qadri Dan was concerned about.

18:20

But so he got real cold in the

18:25

middle of the night.

18:26

And any idea what

18:26

the temperatures were

18:30

will drop right around I think you were saying just around 3032 degrees so just

18:32

around freezing goodness. But

18:37

I've never seen anybody get you

18:37

know that cold where they kind

18:41

of lose their whole mind. There

18:41

was this there was this lady

18:45

near Larry and I and she kind of

18:45

just stood up and she couldn't

18:49

remember her name. She couldn't

18:49

put a sentence together. So we

18:52

rushed her into the situation

18:52

and the CADRE took good care of

18:55

and they had ovens hooked up and

18:55

they had no blankets ready to go

18:58

but we lost five people within a

18:58

within an hour that's how cold

19:02

it gotten

19:04

so so cold wet going

19:04

through the mud you know

19:09

typically in those those heavies

19:09

you know, the sun comes up in

19:13

the morning, you get a little

19:13

burst of energy. Like was there

19:16

ever any time where like, your

19:16

your spirits got lifted? Or was

19:21

it was it just kind of low

19:21

spirits the whole time? Yeah, it

19:27

was pretty low

19:27

spirits. As far as the misery

19:30

goes. It did eventually come up,

19:30

but it was within the last

19:33

couple hours. Not like the

19:33

morning. So yeah, it was cold,

19:39

dark, wet.

19:41

It was so miserable.

19:41

It was comical. There were times

19:46

we were sitting there laughing

19:46

because it was just so

19:48

miserable.

19:50

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's a great question like how, you know, in this

19:52

event, obviously there's misery

19:56

but in the misery and pain like

19:56

I guess kind of question for

20:00

both of you like, how do you how

20:00

do you deal with with that

20:03

adversity? Like, I know that I

20:03

tend to turn into like, I like

20:08

to just kind of like smartass

20:08

jokes or whatever, which is

20:12

probably irritating for

20:12

everybody around me. But it's

20:14

just how I feel like I start to

20:14

cope. Like, what? What are your

20:21

responses to to like that pain

20:21

and that misery and that

20:24

drudgery of just grinding on

20:24

hour after hour?

20:29

From my perspective

20:29

is usually just I think to

20:31

myself, like, God, what the hell

20:31

am I doing this for? This is the

20:34

dumbest damn thing I've ever

20:34

done in my life. And I keep

20:37

signing up for it. You know, and

20:37

sometimes a cadre will say

20:40

something to me, I say, you know

20:40

what, you're half my age, just

20:43

shut up. You know, but so there

20:43

are occasions where I just kind

20:47

of chuckle and I'm just like,

20:47

what the hell is this all about?

20:53

What about you, Larry?

20:54

Yeah, there's a lot

20:54

of that. It's a lot of just kind

20:56

of looking over at somebody else

20:56

being like, you're suffering

20:59

too. So I'm just gonna keep my

20:59

mouth shut and keep on truckin

21:02

and see what we can do and see

21:02

if we can get through this

21:05

together.

21:07

Was Was there any,

21:07

like one movement of the Bragg

21:12

heavy that stands out in your

21:12

mind is like, Oh, yeah, that was

21:15

that was the hardest part.

21:20

We had, they had to,

21:20

we had two teams to carry the

21:23

logs. Each log Pavlik. I mean,

21:23

they were big. They were like

21:26

telephone pole logs. And we had

21:26

a very dysfunctional team,

21:30

unfortunately. And there was

21:30

like, 20 people per team, maybe

21:34

15. And we had to do this one

21:34

mile lap. And if you lost

21:39

obviously, there was hell to

21:39

pay. And we could not win the

21:42

save our lives. And we were just

21:42

functional. I don't know what it

21:45

was. But there were 15, there

21:45

was one or two people there who,

21:49

you know, we're not having fun

21:49

at all. And they let it be

21:52

known. And I think, you know,

21:52

Ken just brought down our team.

21:56

So although I don't know if it

21:56

was the most difficult

21:58

physically, it was certainly the

21:58

most difficult mentally because

22:02

we just we got our asses kicked

22:02

every time around that mile

22:05

loop.

22:07

Every time was make

22:07

individual logs, if you saw

22:13

that, too, that got interesting.

22:13

Just going to pick up a cut log.

22:18

And that was the CADRE like,

22:18

that's yours now. So now you

22:21

can't suffer as a team, you're

22:21

suffering as an individual.

22:24

So they made the whole team each have an individual log.

22:27

Yes. Yep, there was a

22:27

big pile of like chainsaw trees.

22:33

And they're like, just go pick

22:33

one up. Okay.

22:39

I'm actually

22:39

encouraged to hear that y'all.

22:41

Y'all had logs out there, you

22:41

know, the name this this podcast

22:47

under the log, you know,

22:47

hearkening back to all those

22:50

logs that I've been under with

22:50

people and how you get to know

22:53

each other. But, you know, I

22:53

think ever since, you know,

22:58

COVID and everything, like, they

22:58

don't do logs you don't do

23:01

partner carries and stuff like

23:01

that. So I'm like, you know,

23:04

does the title of this podcast

23:04

even make sense anymore? But,

23:08

uh, so it's good to it's good to

23:08

hear that people are still

23:10

getting under the log together.

23:10

That's, that's nice.

23:13

Yeah, I think that's

23:13

that's a prime movement within

23:17

go rock that does a lot of good

23:17

team building. We also had log

23:20

PT at the double heavy in

23:20

Cleveland as well. So that

23:24

Okay, nice. Um,

23:24

well, you know, I think that's

23:30

about it for this episode. But

23:30

at the rate that you guys do

23:35

events, I'm sure that we'll have

23:35

you back on under the log before

23:39

the year is through. But before

23:39

I close, you know, this, this is

23:44

probably the question that I

23:44

have the most intrigue in. Will

23:54

there be a Larry and Larry team

23:54

assessment coming up?

23:59

We knew that question was coming. We knew Yeah. So it is under hot

24:02

when I when I told Larry without

24:10

saying yes, it is under serious

24:10

consideration. How

24:13

about that? That's awesome.

24:16

How about I bought a gr two.

24:18

Okay, okay.

24:23

We recently purchased

24:23

gr twos because we found that a

24:26

gr one might not be big enough

24:26

for some events.

24:29

Okay, so just in

24:29

case there is an event that you

24:32

need a bigger rock to pack a

24:32

little bit more stuff into. Man.

24:39

Have you have you actually

24:39

filled that rock full of gear

24:43

and dumped it on your floor yet?

24:43

That that'd be a good question.

24:46

That's when I decided

24:46

that gr one was way too small.

24:53

Well, that's that's

24:53

really cool, man. I look forward

24:56

to to hopefully, you know, maybe

24:56

Who knows, seeing Larry and

25:01

Larry out there a team

25:01

assessment. But thanks a lot for

25:05

coming out on the show, guys.

25:05

And like I said, I'm sure we'll

25:09

have you back out to talk about

25:09

more events in the future.

25:12

All right. Thank you, Ryan.

25:13

Thank you, Ryan.

25:18

Hey, thanks for

25:18

listening to this episode of

25:20

under the log. If you'd like to

25:20

see shownotes links to stuff

25:24

that we talked about or a

25:24

transcript of the episode, visit

25:27

us at under the law.com. While

25:27

you're there, you can find links

25:31

to all our social media

25:31

profiles, and we'd love to

25:33

connect with you. And if you

25:33

haven't already, please

25:37

subscribe to the podcast

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wherever you get your podcasts,

25:41

you're digging the content, it'd

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be really cool if you'd leave us

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a positive rating. And finally,

25:43

if you've recently completed a

25:47

goruck event and want to chat,

25:47

drop me a line at Ryan and under

25:51

the law comm or hit me a message

25:51

on social media. And we'll get

25:55

you on the calendar for one of

25:55

the next episodes on Moodle. Ah,

25:59

well, that's it for me. We'll

25:59

see you next time on Google.