0:00

Hello and welcome to Under

0:02

the Skin. You're listening to me, Russell Brand.

0:04

This week I spoke to Nick

0:07

Ortner. Nick Ortner

0:09

is my friend and he has designed a technique

0:11

called the Tapping Solution. But let's see what Jenny

0:13

Mae Finn's come up with

0:15

for a script. Nick is CEO of

0:17

the Tapping Solution. Oh, he's a CEO. Yeah.

0:20

Yeah. You're happy

0:21

with that? We're talking to CEOs

0:23

now? The

0:26

CEO of the Tapping Solution and creator

0:28

of the Tapping Solution app, Books Innovate. He's

0:30

written like children's books. He's written

0:33

adults books. He

0:35

tap-taps you right out of your anxiety. Now

0:37

me and Demaya, we use the technique, don't we, Demaya?

0:40

And what's it helped you with? Oh, anger,

0:43

anxiety. You get angry? You get anxious?

0:45

Sometimes, yeah. My sadness masks

0:47

itself as anger. That's a person

0:50

who's done work on themselves. Now let's look at Annabelle

0:52

and Jen. Do you use the Tannet

0:54

Tapping Solution? No.

0:58

A sharp no from Jen. And a hand

1:00

over the face. How am I supposed to do all these

1:03

things? Well, maybe when you're idling

1:05

about, getting your hair cut to a fringe. I meditated twice. Or

1:08

wearing a new silken shirt like

1:10

LV68 Comeback Special

1:12

Black. Instead of that, you could

1:14

be tapping yourself out of your numerous

1:17

mental illnesses. Now I'm

1:19

tap-tap-tapping away. And as

1:21

you can see. There's clearly a divide

1:24

in the work. Even the colleagues.

1:26

It's between the sensitive

1:28

progressives and the stick

1:30

in the mud. I'd call them... I

1:33

don't know how to... I

1:36

don't know how to describe you anymore. But listen, Nick

1:38

has kindly offered a 50% reduction for

1:43

anyone who goes to the tapping solution.com forward slash

1:46

Russell. Plus you get loads of them free anyway,

1:48

whoever you are and whether you use forward slash

1:50

Russell or not. But you gotta check

1:53

it out. Like tapping is a natural healing method,

1:55

also known as the emotional freedom technique.

1:57

It is a healing modality that combines ancient Chinese.

1:59

acupressure and modern psychology. So

2:02

go and download the app. For

2:04

God's sake now, you can get it at

2:07

App Store or Google Play or whatever. What

2:09

are you doing if you're mentally healthy? If you had a little meditate

2:11

every day, how did it go?

2:13

It was okay. Where'd you do it?

2:16

I sit in front of the giant window that

2:18

looks out in the sea. Yeah.

2:21

And then my sister got me a meditation cushion, you know, with the little

2:23

rain one on top of the big square. I

2:26

didn't even know what that is. You know that way you can get a big

2:28

square and then you can get a little

2:30

rain one. Sounds like a bag of revels.

2:33

A little round one in the square. You know what I mean?

2:35

It's a regular cushion, it's a square shape. Okay. And

2:38

then there's a little rain one that you sit on top of. Like

2:40

a little pepperoni sandwich. So

2:43

you see in like, holy places. Oh

2:46

yeah, holy places, that's right, Gemma. Thanks

2:48

for doing so much research. On

2:50

more of my own life. On

2:54

holy cushions, Jen. On

2:56

the cushions of the holy. Nick

2:59

Ortner has come up with a goddamn tapping

3:01

solution and you're sat on your ass on a bagel

3:04

expecting the world to

3:05

change. Well it ain't gonna happen, Keith. But

3:07

you told me to meditate. Well yeah, you've got to

3:09

meditate as well. You've got to do all these things, all of us

3:11

have. We've got to change. If we're gonna create a better

3:13

world, and I promise that we will by Tuesday, then

3:15

we've got to use all these various techniques,

3:18

haven't we?

3:19

Okay, so we're gonna listen to Nick Ortner in a minute. It's

3:21

a beautiful conversation. I really, really enjoyed it. Nick's helped

3:23

me a lot in my own life with

3:26

various innumerable neuroses,

3:29

and he continues to help me. So we'll

3:32

enjoy that conversation. He demos the technique and he talks

3:34

about its origins and some of its

3:36

applications, and it's bloody good. These

3:38

comments are from the Edith Eager episode.

3:41

Moira09 says, why do you continue

3:44

to employ that Jenny May 10?

3:46

She ain't no good. You are

3:48

a good guy. Why don't you give her the old

3:50

tin tack, the Spanish archer,

3:53

the old heaf hoe, the sack? Oh,

3:55

that's interesting. Enquiries,

3:57

Moira. It seems that the listeners are beginning

3:59

to pick up up Jen on your many

4:01

all too evident inadequacies.

4:06

No? No loads of inadequacies. You've

4:08

got adequacy coming

4:10

out your ears. Actually

4:13

what Moyer09 says is, unity is nice to

4:15

say but impossible to implement.

4:17

There will always be people that

4:19

are going to feel a certain way. The idea is

4:21

to strengthen democracy

4:23

including free speech. What's happening right now is the total

4:25

opposite, especially concerning free speech. Moyer,

4:28

we will not impede your free speech. There

4:31

is your comment completely included and

4:33

I agree. We need a strong democracy

4:36

and I think you can't have real democracy without significant

4:38

decentralisation. Tallulah Sunflower says,

4:41

what a beautiful gift to hear this lesson from someone

4:43

who stands in a unique position in world history. Thank you. I

4:45

felt privileged to hear her. She's an elder,

4:47

she's a magnificent communicator and I don't

4:49

know whether we included it in the podcast or not but by the

4:51

end she was showing me pictures of her grandkids

4:53

and all that. I mean that was beautiful.

4:55

A great grandkid, she was just turned into a proper

4:57

nan by the end of it. It was absolutely mental.

5:00

Krista McCarthy Yoga says, Dr

5:03

Edith is not only an amazing woman, she's a hero of the heart. I

5:05

read her book The Choice last January right before Covid

5:07

exploded in North America and Europe. Her

5:09

level of depth, compassion and understanding is humbling

5:11

and her words resonate so clearly. I see her

5:13

as a true inspiration and what she has to say is a gift

5:16

to everyone. I couldn't agree more

5:18

heartily. If only some

5:20

of the people here could draw

5:22

from that

5:23

great deep well of wisdom and experience

5:25

instead of being like a little hermit crab

5:28

in a tiny little shell that they stole from someone

5:30

else. Bigger shell.

5:33

You're a little shell capitalist, aren't you? Ask

5:37

me anything. We're doing a new podcast as you know

5:39

called Ask Me Anything where essentially

5:41

you interview me exclamation mark. We'd love to

5:44

hear from you. To get involved simply go over to RussellBrown.com

5:46

forward slash ask me anything and record

5:48

a voice message with your question. Give us an example.

5:51

What kind of question could I ask Jen?

5:53

Why haven't you shaved your beard off yet? I

5:55

might shave it off. I was gonna. I

5:57

was gonna do it the other day.

5:59

was in their peg and I thought let

6:02

her shave it off and I was gonna

6:04

do it and then like she wandered off

6:06

and I start to get scared. Why?

6:08

Because in case like my friend

6:10

Matt said if it looks like Wendell faded

6:12

to the zoo. No but that's Wendell's the moustache.

6:15

The moustache

6:16

is basically just a lip scribble.

6:18

How's that gonna protect me from looking after

6:20

d... I was looking at it the

6:22

other day when I was looking, perhaps I was on an like you know

6:24

a phone call or whatever. I was looking, I think it's pretty

6:27

thick so

6:28

where would you take it down to? Below the lower lip? No.

6:31

Just above.

6:32

Just like where the lips meet.

6:35

Where the lips meet. Now who has

6:37

this type of moustache that you're asking? Those are people out of

6:39

it. Give us an example Burt Reynolds.

6:43

Yeah but

6:45

here's what

6:47

maybe... Clark Gable.

6:51

Great people have that moustache.

6:53

Johnny Depp?

6:55

Yeah he's a little soul past Johnny Depp too.

6:57

You could do that. I don't know about

7:00

the musketeer beard Jen.

7:05

I think it would be great. You should

7:07

draw while you have it. I'm not gonna lose the

7:09

draw. Draw is going nowhere. What it's done is

7:11

like a long-haired

7:12

man with a moustache. Yeah.

7:14

Isn't that an odd sight? No it's

7:16

the best sight. What if I look like coach?

7:18

My favourite sight. Is it? Yeah.

7:21

A

7:21

long-haired man with a moustache. Yeah. Alright.

7:25

I know Annabelle you've got nothing

7:27

nice to say. I can tell

7:29

from looking at you. DeMia you

7:32

say leave the beard. I

7:34

think

7:35

this is it. Sorry. I actually

7:38

have no comment.

7:40

Well thank you all for indulging

7:42

me and even bringing it up. It wasn't me that brought it up.

7:44

Just remember if Jenny would bring it up.

7:46

It's not like you shave it and then you have to go buy

7:48

a new beard.

7:49

Okay I'm

7:51

gonna shave it. I will do it but

7:53

then when I'm doing videos and I'm sat there like a little moustachio-poustachio

7:57

if I'm laughed at and ridiculed if

7:59

they're a negative comment. I want to compliment

8:01

you.

8:02

I'll give you a compliment.

8:03

What will you say? Nice face. Nice

8:07

face, that's it. Oh, nice

8:09

jaw. You could train a monkey to point to

8:11

that on a board. You'd

8:14

spare better from a human. Really? Like what? One

8:16

more, like, wow my god, it's really bad. Oh, it's like

8:18

the super sure.

8:19

Alright, a monkey couldn't point to that. Okay, fair enough.

8:22

We're getting somewhere, we're getting somewhere

8:24

great. Okay, I'm going to consider it. I'm going to,

8:26

I'm seriously considering it. Let's listen now

8:29

to our friend and

8:31

inventor, or CEO, as Jenny would have it,

8:33

of the tapping solution, Nick

8:36

Orntner. A brilliant leader

8:39

and a kind and beautiful man. Let's hear

8:41

more about this tapping solution technique and how it can

8:43

help you.

8:44

Trying to achieve equality

8:46

with the annihilation of category is

8:49

non-successful. That's exactly

8:51

right. We're in

8:52

this era where it turns out we

8:54

were never the best. It doesn't look like a title, I don't

8:56

know. What's beneath the surface

8:58

of people we admire and the ideas that

9:01

define our time, the history we uphold?

9:04

Welcome to Russell Brand. Under

9:06

the Skin.

9:08

Nick Orntner, my new

9:10

friend and now guest on Under the Skin,

9:13

thanks for joining us.

9:15

Russell, I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

9:17

Thanks for having me.

9:19

I look forward to it as well because I've

9:21

not said before, but you've been helping

9:23

me lately with anxiety-based

9:27

issues. Through your technique,

9:29

the tapping solution, which you have, which

9:32

there is an app by the same name, could you tell

9:34

us what the tapping solution

9:36

is? Yes, indeed,

9:37

sir. So the tapping solution,

9:40

or EFT, is another name for it, emotional

9:42

freedom technique. We call it tapping

9:45

because we are literally, physically

9:48

tapping on endpoints of meridians

9:50

of our body. So if you're listening on

9:52

the podcast, what I'm doing right now is actually

9:55

applying physical

9:56

pressure to these endpoints of meridians

9:59

on the body. And what the latest research

10:01

shows is that when we do this while focused

10:03

on the stress, the anxiety,

10:06

the fearful thought, whatever is going on in

10:08

our lives that's keeping us stuck, we

10:10

send a calming signal to the amygdala in the

10:12

brain. We help the brain

10:15

and the body relax. And it's

10:17

a technique that I mean, I wake up almost

10:19

every morning going, wait, I teach what and

10:21

why are we tapping exactly. And

10:24

it takes people a second to go, wait, what are we doing?

10:27

But as I know, you've experienced deeply,

10:29

it is a profound, profound

10:31

technique to shift our body and our

10:33

brain.

10:34

I suppose it's comparable,

10:37

at least loosely, to something like EDMR

10:40

in that it's a sort of a physical thing that

10:42

has an impact on helping you to sort of

10:45

shift negative emotions. 100%. I

10:48

would call them cousins, a lot of people use EMDR

10:51

and tapping at the same time, a lot of therapists

10:53

do it. The main difference is that EMDR

10:55

is harder to do on yourself. I think there's some new

10:57

things coming out now, where you can, but tapping

11:00

is a tool that a lot of therapists use, but

11:02

then they'll say, hey, do the tapping in the

11:04

office with me, and go take it at home.

11:07

Go use the app. Go do it when

11:09

you wake up at two in the morning with a panic attack.

11:11

Go do it when you're in these states where

11:13

you're not resourceful. And to me, that's one

11:15

of the most exciting parts of it that it

11:18

lets us take our power back. You know, we walk

11:20

around most days thinking the world happens

11:22

to us or a lot, at least a lot of us do the

11:24

world happens to us. Oh, I'm angry because

11:26

that person said that to me. I'm

11:29

anxious because I'm an anxious person. I'm

11:31

anxious because there are things to be anxious about.

11:34

I'm fearful because there's things to be afraid about.

11:37

And certainly, this doesn't change reality,

11:39

the world is what it is. And there are things that can

11:41

feel dangerous and anxiety provoking. But

11:43

the question is, can we change

11:46

that state? Can we change that response?

11:48

Can we change our nervous system to

11:51

be different from what it was before?

11:53

And I think tapping is a tool to be able to

11:55

do that.

11:56

is,

12:00

you know, I'm a person that's always,

12:02

since I've known of it, liked acupuncture

12:05

and that I understand, okay, there are energy

12:07

meridians running through the body that can be redirected,

12:10

harmonized, utilized to

12:12

a therapeutic or medical

12:14

end. Like, is that

12:16

what tapping's doing? I mean, how do you rationalize

12:20

or even explain how tapping

12:22

on like, you know, the side of the hand, the

12:26

corners of the eyes under the eyebrows, underneath

12:29

the eyes, side of the eyes, under the nose, between

12:31

the chin and bottom lip, collar

12:34

and collarbones, then top of the head. How

12:36

would that, why would that change

12:39

a person's emotional state? Is there

12:41

scientific evidence that there is even a thing called

12:43

meridians at all these points?

12:46

Yeah, no, great question. There is, you

12:48

can actually, there's a little tool called a galvanometer

12:51

and it measures electrical resistance

12:54

and you could take that and move it around

12:56

the eye until you hit this point and

12:58

you'll see that this point underneath the eye

13:01

is a point where that conducts more electricity.

13:04

So we don't often think of ourselves as electrical

13:06

beings, we're, at least in this current state,

13:08

we're very biologically based, right?

13:10

We think we eat things, it does stuff.

13:12

We take pills, it does stuff. But

13:15

the reality is that we are full of electricity.

13:17

I mean, when we think more about our brain, people

13:20

tend to connect more with electricity in the

13:22

brain, but they don't think that there's electricity

13:25

in the body. But we are electrical beings. I mean, think

13:27

about, you know, if you're having a heart attack, a big boom,

13:30

electricity to get the body going

13:32

again. So these are points that

13:34

conduct more electricity. And

13:36

again, the research is showing and we've seen

13:39

it in fMRI, so functional

13:42

MRIs, where you can look into the brain, we

13:44

can see how the brain lights up,

13:46

for example, looking at a food that we create.

13:49

So they did a study where they

13:51

put people in fMRI machine, pop

13:54

up some cake, the brain lights up, it goes, I

13:56

want that cake, right? I've got a craving for that

13:58

cake. Do tapping on that craving,

14:01

even though I'm craving this, even though I need

14:03

these sweets, even though, you know, whatever was

14:05

going on, run the

14:07

machine again, that part of the brain

14:09

doesn't light up. So it's turning off these

14:12

centers of addictions, of

14:14

cravings, of stress, of anxiety,

14:17

these patterns that we've built up for so long. You know,

14:19

I always think it's important to, when

14:21

we look to change our lives, to look around and

14:23

go, okay, let's think about

14:26

phobias, for example. So there

14:28

are people that are terrified of public

14:30

speaking, right? And if you said

14:32

to them, Hey, let's imagine we're, we're

14:34

post COVID and there's an audience of 10,000 people

14:37

in an auditorium and you say, go into

14:39

the theater, stand up in the front and give

14:41

a speech. There are people that

14:43

just said idea, they would start sweating,

14:46

their stomach would hurt, they would just feel

14:48

terrible because they've conditioned their mind

14:50

to go an audience. 10,000

14:53

people looking at me is dangerous. Now,

14:55

if I say that to you, you say, let's go 10,000 people.

14:58

It's been a while, you know, post COVID,

15:01

I'm ready to go. So why does your brain

15:03

react differently there than someone else's?

15:06

And it's usually because of conditioned responses,

15:09

not always easy to track. Sometimes it is. Sometimes

15:11

we remember, you know what, when I was in fifth

15:13

grade,

15:14

I got up in front of the class to read and

15:16

I stumbled on a word and the whole class

15:18

laughed at me. And think about that moment

15:21

and impressionable fifth grader, 10 year

15:23

old, 11 year old, that then decides

15:25

the brain goes being in front of people is

15:28

dangerous. Now you might've had a different

15:30

experience. You might've gotten in front of the class and you got

15:32

some laughs and then your brand encoded,

15:34

Oh,

15:35

being in front of people makes them laugh. This

15:37

feels good. We are a series

15:40

of patterns. We are a series of encoding

15:42

and what we can do with tapping if there's something

15:44

that we want to release, if there's something that gets

15:47

in the way, if there's something that feels like,

15:49

you know what, this isn't who I am. This fear

15:51

of public speaking is holding me back. This

15:54

anxiety, whenever I drive is

15:56

holding me back. The stress at work is

15:58

not bringing the best out. out of me. We

16:01

can acknowledge that and make

16:03

that decision to change.

16:05

Have you seen, have

16:08

you ever had the chance to try this out on

16:10

high performance individuals as it were? You

16:12

know like, because when you're talking about it there Nick,

16:14

I'm thinking alright we've made the connection with EDMR

16:17

in that it's a physical therapy that almost

16:19

is a hack into

16:22

a neurosis or anxiety or addiction

16:24

or whatever rather than a sort

16:26

of conventional psychotherapeutic or

16:29

the narrative, understand the narrative type of approach.

16:32

It's comparable isn't it to hypnosis and I know that you

16:34

know obviously

16:35

hypnosis is being like

16:37

used with sports teams is the example

16:39

I'm thinking of. Have you tried

16:41

to tap in with like athletes? You can imagine

16:43

people, you know that condition the yips with golfers

16:45

and darts players when they can't release? Yeah,

16:48

yeah. There was actually a public story

16:50

about a catcher who had the yips and

16:53

used tapping. This was probably five or six years

16:55

ago. I've worked with some athletes. We have

16:57

a sports performance series in the app, just a

16:59

couple of meditations and that's going up. But that's

17:01

such a great example because when you see something

17:03

like that, when we look at athletes, when they

17:05

struggle, so the yips for people that don't know,

17:08

it happens with golf and putting. It happens

17:10

in weird ways for baseball players where they just this

17:13

catcher just throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

17:15

So a meaningless task really, it's

17:17

not like the thick of the game but something

17:19

happened in his brain where it just like couldn't do

17:21

it. Throwing it short, throwing it long, just

17:23

like the simplest task. So we've seen that

17:26

happen before and again, those

17:28

are conditioned experiences.

17:30

What I see a lot with athletes with injury

17:33

is that even if they feel like alright,

17:35

I've rehabbed and I feel good and I

17:37

feel strong. There's still that voice in the

17:39

back of their head that goes off that left knee,

17:41

you know, it's just like and especially

17:44

at the highest levels professional athletes, they

17:46

can't have anything being held back like

17:49

if you held hold back at all. If

17:51

you're nervous, if you're anxious, that's

17:53

when they get hurt. That's when they underperform. So yeah,

17:55

tapping has been very effective because think about

17:57

what we're doing there. So there's a couple of ways. to

18:00

approach it. Let's say an injury or let's say a mistake.

18:02

Right?

18:03

Penalty shot, you know, someone goes

18:06

to kick it goes over the crossbar in

18:08

the World Cup, God forbid, or in, you know,

18:11

in some big game, imagine

18:13

what that does to that player's brain,

18:16

a memory that is locked into their body.

18:18

I mean, it hurts watching it at home, right?

18:21

You see someone miss a penalty and it just it

18:23

just hurts because you go, poor

18:25

guy, what what they have to feel and imagine it counting.

18:28

So their bodies are locked in and we

18:30

see this, you know, when you see in sports, like, oh, they,

18:32

you know, they made their last one penalty shots

18:35

or their or their on a hot streak or their,

18:37

you know, have the flow going, it's

18:39

because they don't have those things stuck

18:42

in their brain. So what we can do in that case, you

18:45

close your eyes and you go, okay, if when I think

18:47

about football, when I think

18:49

about baseball, when I think about whatever's happening,

18:52

what's the memory that comes up that I can't

18:54

let go of. And people will feel

18:56

it in their body. Athletes will feel it in their body. Oh, it's

18:58

this when I underperformed. For actors,

19:01

you know, you can think about a time when you were

19:03

working on a scene and it just didn't come together.

19:05

And maybe that's holding you back from your

19:08

next scene. So you run the movie in your mind. So

19:10

this applies to professional athletes, this applies to

19:13

normal people like us who maybe two weeks

19:15

ago said something stupid,

19:17

or

19:19

reacted in anger, and the thing just keeps

19:22

running there. We close our

19:24

eyes, we run the movie, we're going to do some tapping together,

19:26

I know. And then we can send that calming

19:28

signal to the amygdala, we keep

19:31

running that movie until that

19:33

charge is gone from it until you can think about

19:35

the event and go, huh, it's not

19:37

there anymore. The same technique,

19:39

which is why it's so powerful applies to professional

19:42

level athletes, normal people like

19:44

me, and then to people who have

19:47

suffered some of the worst traumas. So when you think

19:49

about PTSD, soldiers

19:51

and wars, what's happening there? Again, it's a

19:53

brain overload. It's an experience

19:56

over and over again, where the body goes

19:58

into fight flight or freeze. mode when the body

20:00

says it's not safe, you get enough

20:03

of those experiences without the right resources

20:05

around you. And then next thing you know,

20:08

you're in that state, you're in that PTSD, you're

20:10

running those same patterns. So at

20:12

the core of all this, if there's a pattern

20:14

in your life, whether you're

20:16

a football player, or a baseball player,

20:19

or an actor, or a singer, or

20:22

your husband or a wife, and you don't like how

20:24

you're reacting to your spouse, or you're

20:27

parent, you don't like that initial reaction to

20:29

your kids, you're trying to be a better parent, you're reading

20:31

all the books, you're trying to be present, but boy,

20:34

oh boy, when they do that, you are just triggered.

20:37

When there are reactions and things in our lives that

20:39

we don't want. Number

20:41

one, recognizing it. So the second you recognize

20:44

that you've made huge leaps and bounds, you go,

20:46

this is something that I don't want

20:48

to be me, I don't want to be part of who

20:50

I am, because this isn't who I am, we recognize

20:53

it, and then we can use this process to let

20:55

it go.

20:56

It's in the body, I really

20:59

feel that, I have

21:01

regular therapy, and I'm a member of

21:03

support groups, and I like therapeutic

21:06

discourse, i.e. telling

21:08

the story, talking about it. But what I feel

21:10

is that some things are in my, it's

21:13

like it's not even in my brain, it's like it's in my heart,

21:15

or it's in my stomach, and I've noticed when you're doing this

21:17

technique, you like to anatomically

21:20

locate where the emotion or

21:22

sensation is

21:24

being felt.

21:25

Yeah, it helps people get grounded, especially people who

21:27

are in their head a lot. So if you've done a lot

21:29

of therapy, if you've thought a lot about these things,

21:31

well, there's just a bunch of thinking. So, you

21:34

know, let me think about this again, let me think again

21:37

about how I haven't forgiven my mother

21:39

for what she did 20 years ago, let me talk again

21:41

about my dad. And that's all good. I mean, there's a

21:43

place for therapy. There's a reason

21:45

why therapists from around the world, I mean,

21:48

one of the biggest supporters of this technique,

21:50

the people I see timing again, oh, where'd you hear

21:52

about our app? Oh, my therapist gave it to

21:54

me because traditionally trained therapists

21:57

are going, Hey, I have all this great experience

21:59

in cognitive. it in a behavioral therapy and

22:01

Jungian therapy and exposure therapy.

22:04

Now I bring this technique on top of it.

22:06

It's not an either or it's not oh

22:08

well you either do CBT or you

22:11

do tapping. It's no take the tools

22:13

from CBT take everything you've learned

22:16

and acknowledge and recognize the fact that we have these

22:18

physical bodies that we need

22:20

to calm that we need to reset the brain

22:22

that we need to reset that physical experience.

22:25

So all these somatic tools so somatic

22:27

support for body sort of a group of therapies

22:30

that are saying let's take everything we've learned

22:32

in the past and apply this on top

22:34

of it make it so we have a

22:36

resource that can help the brain

22:39

and the body calm down and create change. How

22:42

did you come across this technique?

22:44

How did you become the

22:46

I guess the you

22:48

know the figurehead of this technique?

22:51

Well you know our

22:53

mutual friend funny enough Tony

22:55

Robbins in 2003 or 4 I'm not sure the

23:00

exact date I was just a participant

23:02

at one of his events and

23:04

he had been into energy medicine and these tools

23:06

for a while and he did a really

23:08

brief demonstration. So it was like hey

23:10

if you want to change your mindset calm your body down

23:13

here's some points endpoints blah blah blah I did

23:15

it for 10 minutes we all did it and I I felt

23:17

that difference in my body I was like huh something

23:20

just settled a little more. So

23:22

I went home I bought books about it

23:25

read about it online learned from Gary

23:27

Craig who's the originator of EFT

23:30

which is a form of tapping that I do today

23:32

and spent the years from 2003 and 4

23:34

to say 2007 just using it and sharing with

23:38

friends and family. You know the running joke

23:41

at the time was don't say anything is

23:43

wrong around Nick because he's gonna make you tap

23:45

on it it was just like you're

23:48

scared of heights all right Russell let's go find

23:50

him out we're gonna handle

23:52

this your shoulder hurts great

23:54

let's try this and that's what it was just as

23:56

a human being helping another human being

23:59

I was just so passionate about that tool, about

24:01

this tool. And then in 2007, really

24:03

on a whim, on

24:06

inspiration among day five of a

24:08

green juice fast out

24:10

in the Arizona desert. If you've done a fast

24:13

before, this is when your brain starts to clear

24:15

up after a couple of days of slogging through.

24:18

And I can remember so clearly where

24:20

I was out in Arizona. And

24:22

I said, you know, tapping

24:25

works so well. EFT is so powerful.

24:27

The secret had just come out. If you remember that

24:30

movie, why don't I make a movie about

24:32

tapping? And with

24:34

no filmmaking experience, I mean, no

24:36

camera equipment. I

24:39

just put $40,000 on credit cards and credit lines,

24:41

bought all sorts of camera equipment that

24:43

someone said, oh, this is what you need. Knew

24:46

so little about it that I remember

24:49

being in my 500 square foot apartment

24:51

in Bethel, Connecticut next to where I

24:53

live now with my younger sister, Jessica,

24:56

who I enlisted one of my best friends from high

24:59

school, Nick Polizzi, opening up boxes

25:01

and saying, is this a light? I mean,

25:03

it looks like a light, but I've never seen a light shape

25:05

like this. And the three of us just set

25:07

out a mission filming

25:09

people around the country, figuring

25:12

out how to light shots. I mean, I can tell you, if

25:14

you watch the documentary film that we made in the end,

25:16

I can say, well, that was an early shot because look

25:18

at the lighting. It's just that whole face, that

25:21

whole face is in shadow. This is when we figured

25:23

out how to light things and spent

25:25

that year from 2007 to 2008 making

25:29

this documentary film. The film

25:31

features 10 people from around the country

25:34

who were facing all sorts of challenges.

25:37

So in the movie, you meet

25:39

John, who's a Vietnam veteran with 30

25:41

years of chronic back pain. We go to

25:43

his house in Minneapolis. I really wanted to show

25:46

like, this is a technique that works for

25:48

real people who are not even into

25:50

all this woo woo stuff or alternative things.

25:52

So we go to John's house. You

25:55

see how he struggles to get up. You see

25:57

the pain he's in. He shows us all

25:59

the surgeries. had. He shows us the

26:01

medications he's taken for 30 years and

26:03

then he comes to this event and

26:06

then you see him the second morning of the

26:08

event wake up pain free for the

26:10

first time in 30 years. That's

26:13

the kind of result that obviously we were hoping

26:15

for because I'd seen it in my personal life

26:18

but that's what we showed on film.

26:19

What does that suggest to you about

26:21

the nature of chronic pain?

26:24

It suggests to me that the

26:27

brain is involved in chronic

26:29

pain a lot more than we think.

26:31

I think that understanding is

26:33

starting to come out. My second book on

26:36

tapping was the Tapping Solution for Pain Relief

26:38

because I've seen extraordinary

26:41

results with pain relief. If we think about

26:43

John when he came to

26:45

the event, what did we do? We tapped

26:47

on, we focused on some events from Vietnam.

26:50

He was willing to go there and think about

26:52

the things that he hadn't thought about in a long time.

26:55

Express the guilt that he wanted

26:57

to express about what happened, the mistakes he made.

26:59

It was a very cathartic experience

27:02

for him to share that to tap through the points.

27:05

So we're doing that. We're thinking of these memories

27:07

and then we're lessening the burden on

27:09

the body. We're just helping the body

27:11

relax. Chronic pain oftentimes

27:14

is just a habit

27:17

of

27:18

the brain,

27:19

something that gets stuck. You know, if we ask like if you

27:22

cut your finger later today with a knife, a

27:24

little cut, well, it heals, right? So you put a Band-Aid

27:26

on and it's bleeding for a little while. Maybe it hurts

27:28

for a couple of days and then it heals. You

27:30

could even hurt your back

27:32

and a week later it feels fine. So why

27:34

does someone have an injury

27:36

and then be in pain 30 years later? It's

27:38

not that it's the pain isn't real.

27:41

It's not that they did anything wrong. It's

27:43

that there is more to that pain than

27:45

just what the body is doing, just that

27:48

one event and tapping helps get

27:50

into that side of things.

27:52

I suppose it's a consequence of a real

27:54

materialistic and rationalistic

27:57

perspective of reality.

27:59

in that even in its

28:02

kind of domination

28:04

over nature, a shoe

28:07

forecloses the observable

28:09

reality that the body does

28:12

heal itself under certain circumstances.

28:15

It's very

28:16

interesting that to me because I vacillate between

28:19

various poles in this territory

28:21

of thinking, no, reality is subjective

28:24

construct, it's conceptual, there's

28:27

much more even it's sitting in this room now, Nick, there's

28:29

more at play that's passing through the

28:31

filter of my imagination

28:33

and my experience rather than, well,

28:36

objectively, I'm a table, I'm talking to my mate Nick, there's

28:38

the people here that work with me, all of these things

28:41

that I look at are coloured by subjective

28:44

or ultimately conceptual experience

28:46

that I'm projecting. I suppose

28:48

if you can take

28:50

the jump as you have just done,

28:53

that those concepts can be altered and that

28:56

concept could apply even to physical pain

28:58

where the materialist perspective

29:00

would be, no, that muscle is tightened

29:03

or is damaged or that bone is corroded

29:06

or whatever it's going to be. Actually

29:08

though, like you said, yeah, you do

29:11

have back pain for a week and then the body just goes,

29:13

ta-da, or with

29:15

the cut example, it just zaps it

29:17

away. Yeah, it's in a sense

29:19

that we can construct an

29:21

auto reality through deploying

29:23

certain systems and disrupting certain

29:26

patterns. Yeah, I agree and I

29:28

mean, I'm with you with vacillating

29:31

between the magical and the mystical and

29:33

the beauty of the universe and what potential

29:36

we can create. Though, it

29:38

feels to me with the data that we are

29:40

getting on tapping, with

29:43

the scientific research studies that are looking

29:45

at the brain, at MRI

29:47

machines, it's not that much of a leap.

29:50

We're not going, okay, you either believe

29:52

that there's muscle damage and there's real

29:54

pain or you believe in this wacky

29:56

technique where you really have

29:58

to believe in the mystical for it to happen.

30:00

I think we're learning enough about pain in the body that

30:03

there's there's a place in between. Yes, we're

30:05

leaning into more potential We're leaning

30:07

into the idea that well, what if love could

30:09

heal your back pain? What if forgiveness could

30:12

heal your back pain? What if gratitude could heal

30:14

your back pain, but even those constructs?

30:17

Gratitude and love are things that are create

30:19

certain States in the body that

30:21

change the biochemistry of the body.

30:23

So we're not saying oh well love heals

30:26

and it's just woo out there No, when

30:28

you feel love and gratitude your

30:30

body changes Biochemically you are changed.

30:32

There's just no doubt about that. This is enough trying

30:35

to be Eric Ferri it's just the reality when

30:37

you've been feeling anger and

30:41

Resentment and this

30:43

tightness in your body for 30 years. It's

30:45

gonna manifest in your back not healing

30:49

Finally relax I mean at the core

30:51

of everything we're doing with having is we

30:53

are looking to turn off

30:55

that fight-or-flight or freeze response We're

30:57

looking to get out of this chronic

31:00

anxiety stress depression You

31:02

know, whatever we're feeling and help

31:04

the body relax And the reality is

31:06

that when the body relaxes it heals

31:09

again Like you're either in fight-or-flight

31:11

mode or you're in healing and rest mode So,

31:14

you know with John with 30 years of back pain

31:17

We allowed him to relax for a moment

31:20

the tapping allowed those muscles that maybe

31:22

were clenched like this for so long because

31:24

of that Anger, I mean look if you're angry, right

31:27

like your fists are like this so you can feel

31:29

it it your body reacts to it So if

31:31

we can start moving people into that

31:33

calm state then all sorts of things

31:36

happen and it's why you know, I get

31:38

a I get a weekly email from

31:40

our community person that runs our Facebook groups

31:42

and she does Highlights of the

31:45

results that people have had the changes that they've shared

31:47

in groups and these are just people publicly

31:49

sharing them in groups There's

31:52

a hundred every week and one

31:54

is more astounding than the other one is better

31:56

than the other to the point where You know, there's

31:58

just too many of them and you go well, this, this

32:01

is too good to be true. But when people

32:03

take that power back into their own

32:05

hands, when they allow themselves to

32:07

relax, when they allow themselves to

32:09

acknowledge how they feel, you

32:11

know, one of the powerful,

32:12

I'm a big fan of meditation,

32:15

do it almost every day. I'm a

32:18

big fan of therapy. I think

32:20

that tapping blends the two so beautifully. And

32:22

one of the things that's really powerful about tapping that I know

32:24

you've experienced is that we begin where

32:26

we are. So we say, even

32:28

though I'm anxious, I choose

32:31

to relax now, even though I'm so

32:33

angry at john, I choose

32:35

to acknowledge these feelings now, as opposed

32:37

to some of the magical thinking that tends

32:40

to happen, some of the positive affirmation thinking

32:42

that tends to happen is, well, you're angry,

32:45

you don't want to be angry. So forgive

32:47

john immediately, or Rick

32:50

or Susie or whoever piss you off

32:52

and go to positive thoughts, hey, just try saying an affirmation.

32:55

I forgive them now. But if someone just

32:57

wronged you, if you feel anger about something,

33:00

and I say to you three seconds later, Russell,

33:02

come on, you know better. Forgive them. It's

33:05

time to move into the light, let it go. Your

33:08

body is conditioned to respond.

33:11

You're angry because something happened where you

33:13

felt attacked where you felt it was dangerous

33:15

where you felt unsafe. So this

33:18

shift in between is, I

33:20

think what the world needs to say, No, I

33:22

am angry. I'm angry about what happened. And

33:25

we express that anger. And I've seen it

33:27

time and again, where people say, I'm

33:29

so angry, and they think through the event, and then

33:31

their body begins to relax. And then

33:33

they shift into sadness and go, hmm,

33:36

I'm not actually angry. I'm just I'm sad. I'm

33:39

sad that they treated me this way, or

33:41

I'm sad that I acted this way.

33:43

And there's this perspective comes in.

33:45

And then that sadness might move into forgiveness.

33:49

I'm not ready to fully forgive them. But I'm

33:52

open to it. I'm opening up my heart to it. And

33:54

we can do this. You know, sometimes it takes

33:56

people 20 years to forgive someone

33:59

in their life to let to, we

34:01

can do this sometimes in minutes, sometimes

34:03

in hours, sometimes in weeks, but we can speed

34:05

up the process when we acknowledge these

34:07

feelings and then when we calm our body down

34:10

and then we can let go.

34:12

People find it easier

34:15

to accept that changing

34:17

states of mind can alter behaviour.

34:20

I think people accept that if you're in a state

34:22

of gratitude or love or compassion,

34:24

that will alter the way you treat the next

34:26

people that you're interacting with. I

34:28

think they find it harder to accept

34:30

that it can influence in a physical

34:32

reality, but obviously every physical

34:36

action undertaken by the body involves

34:39

a relationship between consciousness

34:42

and the physical world, even if it's

34:44

moved mouth make these sounds

34:46

either unconsciously or

34:48

consciously. Signals are sent

34:50

by volition and involuntarily

34:53

from the mind in Ivertecubus

34:56

to the body. So it certainly

34:59

seems to me that it's something

35:01

that ought to be explored and as you say,

35:03

you're almost still going straight to the results because you

35:06

have the results and they are both

35:08

anecdotally and somewhat more empirically through

35:10

your app that

35:14

it's effective. I feel like many

35:17

things that operate

35:19

within this kind of territory

35:21

are regarded cynically

35:25

because of a kind of institutionalised

35:29

desire to maintain control

35:31

over certain spaces like no, no,

35:34

no, we don't just change the world

35:36

for ourselves. That's a transactional

35:38

process that's got appointed experts. In a way,

35:41

it's a little bit like in certain religious

35:43

history, the shift from

35:44

you go to church, you listen

35:46

to this person, the books written in

35:49

Latin or Greek, it's

35:51

translated into English and you can access God

35:53

whenever you want, however you want. It

35:57

seems like the orthodoxies that people like

35:59

to to maintain, you know, sometimes

36:02

for like blunt economic reasons and sometimes

36:04

for, I don't know, ideological reasons.

36:06

Yeah, I mean, people live in their own camps

36:08

and I think, you know, so

36:11

tapping was first discovered right around 1980

36:14

by Dr. Roger Callahan. So we're talking 40 years

36:17

now that it's been out in some way. Now it's

36:19

grown, obviously, and when you

36:21

look and you go 40 years and if

36:23

it's so effective, why haven't I heard about it, right?

36:26

People listening like okay, if it's that good, why

36:28

haven't I heard about it before? And if I

36:30

look at the history and the transitions

36:32

from different people leading the way

36:34

and sharing it, I

36:36

think a mistake

36:37

that was made within the community was, well,

36:39

this works so well. I just saw John

36:42

with 30 years of back pain get better,

36:44

right? What else do you need to know? Doesn't everyone

36:47

with 30 years of back pain, shouldn't they all do it now

36:49

because we have this anecdotal report

36:52

and those are important and case studies are

36:54

important. But what's happened in the last decade

36:56

and I think why tapping is growing

36:59

to be as popular as it is, is

37:01

that we're taking the time to do the research

37:03

and I get it now. In the beginning, I was so passionate,

37:05

I was just driven by passion. But I understand

37:07

why, you know, Duke University Health Hospital

37:10

is running a study on tapping. They're using

37:12

our app and they're doing pre and post

37:15

surgery because they're an institution.

37:17

They have rules to follow and they have rules that

37:19

are there. Some are dumb, I'm sure, but

37:21

some are really good. And there are rules there

37:24

that way, 84 different people

37:26

don't come in and say, Oh, you should do tapping.

37:28

Oh, you should do Reiki. Oh, you should do essential oils.

37:30

Oh, you should do meditation, all these things that are fabulous.

37:33

But we need a way to look through

37:35

things, especially when we look at that

37:37

institutional level, right? We

37:40

need to study them, we need to recognize

37:43

what's working and not working. And

37:45

then we need that to be a financial

37:48

incentive for it. So the reason

37:50

why hospitals potentially could begin adopting

37:52

tapping and why Duke is studying

37:55

it is because they are looking for better patient

37:57

outcomes, because better patient outcomes

37:59

is something that is

37:59

currently important under the

38:02

infrastructure of

38:03

hospitals, right, of

38:05

the system in America. It's why the NIH

38:08

in the UK has explored it and looking

38:10

at it because we go, all right, yes, we have financial

38:12

incentives to make people feel better. Yes,

38:14

we are people hopefully that care about people

38:16

feeling better. And let's do it in a logical

38:19

way so we can share it

38:21

with

38:22

those people that need it most. The other

38:24

things that

38:25

I think are happening in order for it to break through, it's

38:27

why we made an app. It's why, you

38:30

know, we just crossed 4.5 million completed

38:32

sessions on the app. So we have this huge

38:34

data set. As you know, when you use the app, you do

38:37

zero to 10, you know, how anxious

38:39

am I? It's a 10. Well, now it's a five.

38:42

So we have that data. And we can accumulate

38:45

that data privately, of course, and say,

38:47

there is a statistically significant reduction

38:50

in stress and anxiety. I can tell

38:52

you that in our five day pain series,

38:54

thousands of people finishing it, 49%

38:56

decrease in pain from day

38:59

one to day five. That's not me saying

39:01

it anecdotally. That's not one person with

39:03

just a placebo effect. That is a

39:06

whole huge set of people having

39:08

that result.

39:09

And what's exciting about the app and,

39:11

you know, other things that we're doing is that we can also

39:13

replicate it. So part of the challenge in the past

39:16

with tapping with other therapies, even with Reiki

39:18

or essential oils is that it relied on

39:21

someone going into the hospital to do something.

39:24

And there's a lot of variables there, right? So does

39:26

that person well trained in it? Are they

39:28

caring, compassionate? Is there can

39:31

that person reach 1000 people? Probably not,

39:33

right? So we're constrained by these budgetary

39:35

things. Whereas technology,

39:37

hopefully, in theory, lets us share

39:40

these messages in a financially

39:42

viable way, and that way reach the people

39:44

that need it most.

39:46

That's fantastic. Thank you for making that so clear. You

39:48

mentioned that we met through our mutual

39:50

friend, the incomparable and great Tony

39:53

Robbins. Can you tell me a bit more about

39:55

that encounter with

39:57

him? Like, I thought...

39:59

I felt like it was where you maybe met

40:02

him or got to know him at least. Yeah.

40:04

So, you know, as I mentioned, I went to

40:06

one of Tony's events in 2003. I

40:09

did all his events, his date with Destiny.

40:11

I went to Fiji for a life mastery. I

40:14

was just a Tony fan. He really transformed

40:16

my life. Helped me move

40:19

from a place of thinking the

40:21

world happens to me to taking responsibility

40:23

for my thoughts and actions. And it seems

40:25

simple, but that is what I think one of his biggest gifts

40:28

to go, hey, I can do something about

40:30

the way I feel. My past is not to

40:32

find me. I can create today and I

40:34

create my future. And, you know, I

40:36

was just a fan for

40:39

years. 2012,

40:40

you know, I

40:42

live in Newtown, Connecticut. So where I'm

40:45

speaking to you from today, I grew

40:47

up in Brookfield, Connecticut, which is just a town over,

40:50

lived in New York City for a couple of years. I

40:53

found my way back home with my parents and

40:55

siblings. So this is where I've been for the

40:57

last decade.

40:58

And a lot of people will recognize

41:00

the name Newtown, Connecticut, or Sandy Hook,

41:03

Connecticut as the site of the Sandy Hook

41:05

school shooting.

41:07

So 2012, I

41:09

was living here. I remember it so clearly

41:11

Friday morning, cold Friday morning,

41:13

December 14th. And

41:16

like the rest of the world, you started coming

41:18

out. Oh, there's been a shooting. And

41:21

you think, okay, well, hopefully it's not too bad,

41:23

right? You always think of shooting. Hopefully not

41:25

too many people died or hopefully

41:27

nobody died. And then

41:29

you started coming out and getting worse and worse

41:32

and worse. Certainly, I don't

41:34

need to tell you the end of that story. One of

41:36

the most horrific mass killings in

41:38

our history, especially of these

41:41

little kids, first graders.

41:44

So once

41:46

some of the shock wore off, I was here

41:48

in town. I said, well, look, I have

41:50

a tool that

41:51

isn't going to fix this situation, but

41:54

I know

41:55

can potentially help some people with

41:57

the trauma, the anxiety, the trauma.

42:00

sleeping, the challenges

42:02

that come with a situation like this. And

42:05

I put out a call to

42:07

my email newsletter out in about town.

42:09

Hey, we're here. We're in town. If

42:12

you know someone that needs help, we're

42:15

here to help. And then we got volunteers. That

42:17

following Tuesday, so really just five

42:19

days afterwards, I was in

42:21

that home with Scarlett Lewis who

42:24

lost her son,

42:25

Jesse. And Scarlett

42:27

had known a little bit about tapping. She was a big

42:29

fan of Wayne Dyer and Louise Hay.

42:31

So she knew about Hay House. And she invited

42:34

me into her home. And Dr. Lori

42:36

Layden, who I flew in from California to

42:40

help her, right, for lack of a better,

42:42

to show tapping with her. And I remember

42:44

that night, I mean, you

42:46

know, Jesse's bedroom was there. I mean,

42:49

this little boy had died, you know, five

42:51

days earlier. Paintings of him were everywhere.

42:54

Nothing was changed in the house. And it

42:57

felt a sacredness to that

42:59

space, to the tragedy, to the loss that

43:02

had happened. And we helped Scarlett

43:04

and her son, JT, who was Jesse's

43:07

older brother, who I think was 13 at the

43:09

time, just taught him the tapping.

43:11

You know, with Scarlett, people say, oh, well,

43:14

you know, her son died five days earlier. What did you

43:16

tap on? Like, it's the most unimaginable

43:18

grief possible. And of course, we didn't focus

43:21

on that. It wasn't like, well, let's see if we can

43:23

tap away this grief. It was, let's

43:25

just see if we can calm down the body, some

43:28

of the feelings that you're feeling right now, some of the

43:30

anger, let's see if we can help you sleep.

43:33

And let's give you this tool to just

43:35

when you need it most, calm down

43:38

your body. Scarlett and I have become

43:39

really close friends. She wrote an incredible

43:42

book called Healing, Nurturing Love,

43:44

which is all about her journey.

43:47

Either that morning or the day before her

43:50

son, Jesse had written on

43:52

the chalkboard Healing, Nurturing Love in their

43:54

house. And when I walked in, I saw it

43:56

there, you know, healing spelled wrong, nurturing.

43:59

love.

44:01

Her son Jesse had given

44:03

the

44:04

older son JT a note that said,

44:07

Remember to have fun. I mean, just a

44:10

lot of

44:11

crazy little things. This Yeah,

44:13

it is fucking hell. This is where the magic the magical

44:16

and mystical and the hope and a greater

44:18

meaning behind tragedy like this.

44:22

So I worked with Scarlett next couple years,

44:24

she started the Jesse Lewis Jews Love

44:26

Foundation, working on a

44:29

curriculum in schools for

44:31

choosing love. She is, you know,

44:34

you hear about forgiveness and people say models

44:36

of forgiveness.

44:39

When you talk to her, when you hear

44:41

her talk about Adam Lanza, the shooter,

44:43

when you hear her talk about her forgiving

44:46

her

44:46

son's murderer, you know, people say things like

44:48

that, but there's a a depth of conviction.

44:51

There's an energy that

44:53

is just mind blowing. So you know,

44:55

look her up if you want. If you want

44:57

to see forgiveness,

44:59

embodied, if

45:00

you want to see forgiveness that feels true

45:03

and real, that's Scarlett.

45:06

So we worked together the next couple years helped

45:08

a lot of other people in town

45:11

continue to do so doing trainings, teaching

45:14

therapists in town, how to use tapping,

45:17

having group sessions, donating our sessions, working

45:20

one on one with kids in the school, other parents

45:22

and, you know, long story

45:24

short, Tony came into town to

45:27

see if he could help and share some of his

45:30

tools, because that's just kind of the big hearted

45:32

guy he is and Scarlett invited me along.

45:35

So you know, in a little hotel meeting

45:39

room a couple miles from here, sitting

45:41

next to Scarlett, I was introduced

45:44

to Tony in person and got

45:46

to share with him

45:48

what we had done together, and

45:50

what Charlotte and I had done together in the work in town.

45:52

And we've since developed a nice friendship.

45:54

He's actually an investor in the app.

45:56

He's a partner in the app because he so

45:58

believes in tapping in the work.

45:59

he's doing. And it was really a full

46:02

circle moment that to me,

46:04

you know, defines the work that we're

46:06

doing defines why we do what we do.

46:08

And also defines that when you

46:11

continue to keep the focus on

46:13

just helping people out there doing good work,

46:15

you know, we were just on the ground. I mean, it was boots on the

46:18

ground.

46:18

There are people suffering here, there's a tool

46:21

that can help and, you

46:23

know, to have my mentor, Tony

46:25

Robbins,

46:26

come into town and acknowledge that work without

46:28

asking for that acknowledgement without looking for that public

46:31

validation, just felt wonderful

46:34

and continues to, to guide

46:36

us in the real mission of the work

46:38

we're doing.

46:40

Yeah, he's a phenomenal man. I mean, it can

46:42

hardly really be overstated the

46:44

way that he conducts himself

46:47

and like whenever I've asked him for

46:49

any kind of help,

46:51

like it's like a sort of deluge

46:53

of help. It's like being

46:56

punched to the ground with help. Oh,

46:58

yeah, you want some help? Burn, burn, burn! It's

47:03

like sort of amazing.

47:05

Yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah.

47:08

And like, you know, like he's obviously been on this podcast.

47:10

And yeah, I've always said it's like standing in front

47:12

of a waterfall of like intense

47:15

positivity. Where is this

47:18

coming from?

47:19

Yeah, he is, you know, I remember

47:22

after I first did his events,

47:25

you know, people who attend Tony events and really

47:27

get into it, you're you

47:29

aspire to be Tony, right? That's just like the natural

47:31

inclination to just be like, all right, I gotta gotta

47:34

be like Tony, you know, and

47:36

I'm five nine, he's six six. So that's

47:39

already a struggle, you know, and trying to be

47:41

the giant that he is. And

47:43

for the first couple years after attending his event, I

47:47

remember feeling like I was not enough

47:49

so often.

47:52

Right. And eventually

47:54

through this work, through this acknowledgement

47:56

of of letting go the past of you

47:58

know,

47:59

who I

47:59

want to be in the world. I recognize

48:02

I am not Tony Robbins. I don't want to be Tony

48:04

Robbins. I never will be Tony Robbins.

48:06

And that is fabulous. And it really

48:09

came again, full circle. I was out of the house

48:11

a couple of years ago. You know,

48:13

overlooking the water in Palm Beach, this gorgeous home,

48:15

as you can imagine, and we were meeting about

48:18

some of the work the foundation was doing and some things we

48:20

could do together. And I'm sitting

48:22

there talking and he's got his notepad. And he is writing.

48:25

Seriously. I mean, he is nonstop

48:27

taking notes faster than I'm saying anything.

48:29

So I'm thinking I got nothing. I don't

48:31

have a notepad. And I'm looking around going,

48:34

should I be taking notes here? Like, what? Definitely.

48:36

You're not probably equipped for the meeting.

48:39

Should have pretend with your hand even

48:41

just pretend. I like that one. Yeah.

48:44

I think I have a phone. It was

48:46

I was not properly equipped Russell,

48:48

but it was to me a moment that goes, I'm

48:50

not a big note taker.

48:52

Tony is

48:53

I'm not.

48:54

And that's okay. We're all going to approach things

48:56

differently. And I think that

48:58

awareness of what are your skills? Who do you want to

49:00

be in the world? How do you want to show up?

49:03

Do you want to work 14

49:04

hours a day? Or do you want to work for and you

49:07

can make all that go? That's part of that self

49:09

knowledge that unveiling of this process. Yeah,

49:12

I feel like that with general principle,

49:14

actually, Nick, with like mentorship, like when I think like

49:16

when I was very much cultivating

49:20

my comedic, you know, learning to be

49:22

a comedian, obviously emulating

49:24

and admiring and studying

49:27

British comedian like Peter Cook

49:29

prior from your country, like,

49:33

you know, Billy Connolly, Eddie

49:35

Izzard, like lots of different stand up comedians

49:37

looking at him. And like after a while

49:39

you recognize that what you love about any of those

49:41

people is that they are themselves is their

49:44

selfness that comes out their

49:47

capital S selfness that they're sort of

49:49

stripped away of the artifices

49:51

of imitation and

49:54

what you're left with the same pure light now when it

49:56

was like, yeah, we've like with the first sort

49:58

of occasional so that I met Tony.

49:59

I remember, like the thing that most days in my head is

50:02

like I've got a dog, you know, and I live in the English

50:04

countryside So I'd like find myself like walking

50:06

the dog with like a Mac on

50:08

like with a hood up But it's like muddy and I'm wearing

50:11

muddy boots. I'm thinking this is not

50:13

fucking good and Tony would not be doing

50:15

this Standing in a muddy field. I should

50:17

be doing something worthwhile. No one's getting helped

50:19

This isn't a billion charity meals or

50:22

building some sort of business. I'm a wreck.

50:24

I'm a wreck I'm a failure and

50:26

yeah, well, that's right. How

50:28

did you not mention Bill Hicks and your comedians

50:31

that you were?

50:32

Actually, yeah, he's a he's

50:34

a big one both in terms of like, yeah intensity

50:37

passion like yeah Door

50:39

him. I've done

50:41

a deep dive into your work since we've met and

50:45

I have to throw in a plug here For all the

50:47

listeners for all your audiobooks If

50:50

any listener has not listened whether

50:52

it be recovery or revolution or

50:54

just any of it there the audio books The

50:56

writing is fabulous, but I just love the performance and

50:58

delivery. So Thank you

51:01

recovery on

51:02

audio book today.

51:04

I'm in the middle of doing another one Thank

51:07

you very much. You're the perfect guest. You're not

51:09

even focused on your own promos. I

51:12

wish they would all behave as well as you Thanks

51:17

Nick, thank you I'm doing an audible

51:20

original for audible at the moment

51:22

on like on revelation and the

51:24

discovery of the sacred in the

51:26

everyday And I suppose you know one of

51:28

the things I was told you about is like I feel like you were

51:30

mentored some by Louise Haye and

51:32

I know you know like a Bruce Litton and I feel like

51:34

you were published by the same company that did David

51:37

Hawkins who I really

51:39

really like his books about letting go and power

51:41

versus force Reading some

51:43

of that stuff at the moment.

51:46

How did

51:46

you come to be? How did you come to

51:48

know that crowd if indeed

51:50

a crowd they are

51:52

now they are so hey house is my

51:54

publisher in? 2013 some

51:58

people from there approached me. I had dinner with three Tracy,

52:00

who's the president of Hay House, who's become

52:03

a dear friend. We talk almost weekly

52:05

and, you know, we had heard our story

52:07

about the movie and everything we've done in the world and said,

52:10

you should write a book. And, you

52:12

know, I mean, it's interesting looking back, because I've written

52:14

a lot of books since and the books have been New York Times

52:17

best sellers. And it's all been fabulous journey.

52:19

But when he said that to me in that moment, I said, I

52:21

don't think so. I just didn't see a book in

52:23

me. Everything was going great with

52:26

the business and the movie and this, that and the other.

52:28

But I think Reed saw something that I didn't necessarily

52:31

see in myself. And he just

52:33

called me was one of the people who

52:35

works with Patty called me the next day with an offer.

52:38

So just like, well, you said you didn't want to write a book,

52:40

but we're just making you an offer. And

52:42

it was a nice monetary offer, which made me jump

52:45

off the couch a little bit and go, okay, all right, I'll give

52:47

this a shot. I'll write a book. And he's

52:49

really Hay House is the one that put me on stage. You

52:52

know, I had done a little speaking before them, but

52:54

they said, Come to her events, come speak.

52:57

That's how I met Louise Hay, because she's,

53:00

you

53:00

know, obviously the founder of Hay House, we did some tapping

53:02

together,

53:03

which was extraordinary. We filmed

53:05

a video together that's still out there. She's since

53:07

passed on.

53:09

But

53:10

we did a video together where we we tap

53:12

together and also Wayne Dyer,

53:14

Dr. Wayne Dyer, that a lot of people will know and be

53:17

fans of. We spoke a lot of places

53:19

together. And then we traveled together for two

53:21

weeks in Australia, at a time when

53:23

he was actually dealing with this horrible neck pain.

53:25

So we were able to work together

53:27

a lot. I tapped with him to ease

53:30

that neck pain, followed him on

53:32

stage and just really, you know,

53:34

became friends with Wayne and Louise

53:36

just from sharing the stage with them and sharing my

53:39

knowledge and gifts with them. And again,

53:42

really full circle. I mean, these are the people Wayne

53:44

is still in my ear, Louisa is still in my Wayne

53:47

sadly passed on as well way too

53:49

early. But I will listen

53:51

to Wayne's audiobooks, because

53:53

they even if I've heard him 10 times, there's an energy

53:56

to them. They guide me in you know, who

53:58

I am in the world and the way I show up in the world. So

54:00

all these incredible mentors have become friends

54:03

again, I think as a function of just doing the work

54:05

and just focusing on helping people

54:08

These people are kind of almost would you say

54:10

like saints like if they're like the concept

54:13

of sainthood meaning

54:15

I suppose that you live by

54:18

principles that are somewhat odds with

54:20

the Principles of the time you find yourself living

54:22

in transcendent principles such as love compassion

54:25

service dedication Discipleshood like

54:27

you know, I don't know a great deal about either

54:29

of those figures that you know Intimately,

54:32

but what I heard from our mutual friend Jeff Krasnow

54:35

about Wayne Dyer is that that dude? He

54:37

was the absolute deal like literally give

54:39

away all his money and like when people do stuff

54:41

like that That's when you feel like oh, wow, man.

54:44

I mean, that's where I'm sort of aspiring

54:46

to

54:47

Yes, and that's the key and the key

54:49

is

54:50

And I've heard some of these stories from read

54:52

directly because read was really close

54:54

to Wayne They talked every day again

54:56

retraced the president of Hay House who published

54:59

all of Wayne's, you know Books for the

55:01

second half of his career Wayne

55:03

gave people money to people all the time

55:06

and never told anybody, you know so he'd

55:08

see Something on HBO

55:10

about some, you know death the toot mother

55:12

and everyone else would watch it passively

55:15

and he would say track this person down and

55:18

help them So it was like I'm with you It's

55:20

like those stories when you hear about them, you

55:22

know from back channels when he's not saying

55:25

it publicly when he's donating A lot of

55:27

money and he's doing it in specific

55:29

ways to help people in need I

55:31

think that is

55:32

one of the biggest signs of someone

55:34

who we should really follow and listen to I

55:37

suppose the principle of sacrifice

55:41

feels significant to me because of

55:43

the Natural It's

55:46

natural but the tendency towards

55:48

selfishness which feels like it's like underwritten

55:51

biologically survival protection Competition

55:54

all these ideas that are culturally supported. Let's

55:56

face it and to an

55:58

enormous degree in

55:59

in some cases at our time,

56:02

when someone's at odds with that, to

56:05

the advantage of others, it seems so powerful, you

56:07

know, whether it's acts of heroism where someone puts

56:09

themselves first, or even giving of themselves,

56:11

you know, not prioritizing, like,

56:14

we can all talk of a game, but when people are willing

56:17

to give up their time, to give up their money, to like,

56:19

you know, that's when you

56:21

believe it. That's what I heard that Eric From quote,

56:24

like, you know, the priest preaches the word,

56:27

the prophet is the word made flesh, that

56:29

they just, like, they embody those

56:31

principles, and that has such great resonance

56:34

when people live that way, because there

56:36

it is, it can be done, it can be done, you know?

56:39

Yeah, and more today than ever before.

56:41

I mean, how do you donate money and not post it

56:43

on Instagram, right? How do you do a good deed

56:45

and not share it on Facebook?

56:49

You know,

56:50

those sides of us are sadly amplified

56:52

through those platforms, the showing off

56:55

of things, like, even if I do good, this is what

56:57

I did, this is a documentation

56:59

of my life and pictures

57:02

or in post or whatever it is. And

57:04

certainly there's a place for it, and I

57:06

love all the good parts about social media, I love all the

57:08

positive messages that can happen, but

57:11

it's challenging to be the

57:14

best of who we are in this

57:16

day and age.

57:17

Nick, I have a personal

57:19

experience of your generosity and kindness, notably around

57:22

the donation you made to One Can Trust,

57:24

a food bank that I did some volunteering

57:27

for and I'm proud to say, but I'm now an ambassador

57:29

for. They told me about a large donation

57:31

you made to them after seeing the video I did for them on YouTube.

57:34

I wanna thank you for that, that was really, really decent

57:36

of you, mate. But if I was a real

57:39

profit, I would've made it and not told

57:41

you I made it, right? I don't think you did tell

57:43

me, they told me.

57:44

They did tell me. I would've made it anonymously. Anonymously,

57:48

when you get to that level. Oh man,

57:51

it's not easy, I must give anonymously,

57:53

it's a good call, ah! Did

57:55

you see it? It's a good... There's

57:57

a curve. There's a... Yeah.

57:59

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

58:01

Yeah, and you said- Oh, anonymous. And

58:04

if I'm not, it's Ted Danson anyway that

58:06

crew. Yeah. Ha ha, fantastic.

58:09

Fantastic.

58:11

Could you demo the technique for us on

58:13

me, please? Let's do it.

58:15

And everyone watching at home, as long as you're not driving a

58:17

car, you can do it with us. If you

58:20

are, pull over or save it for later.

58:23

Can I list the things that are wrong with me? Yeah,

58:25

please, let's fix them all at once, I mean.

58:28

This is some of the things I've thought about over the course of this conversation.

58:31

I know you've been tremendously helpful with me around fear,

58:33

anxiety, paranoia, those kind of things. It continues

58:35

to be helpful. And I now use

58:38

the app to do that regularly when

58:40

those feelings come up. So that is, I would say,

58:43

pretty damn regular. But

58:46

over this course of this conversation, the stuff you said

58:48

about pain was interesting because I've got

58:50

some shoulder pain that I get now

58:53

and again. Like, it

58:55

feels super real. When I throw stuff,

58:57

it hurts. And I think it's exacerbated by jujitsu

59:00

when I'm able to do jujitsu. And

59:04

that's one.

59:05

Another thing is fear of, you

59:08

know, I was trying to, like when you were saying about being frightened

59:10

of talking in front of people, of course I would be

59:13

nervous if I had to talk in front of thousands of people, but

59:15

I've learned through experience to

59:17

treat those feelings of fear as

59:20

sort of a download of fuel. I still get

59:22

the feeling, but I'd now accept,

59:25

acknowledge, and metabolise

59:27

those feelings differently. But say something

59:30

like sport, right, other than

59:32

jujitsu, and even now, I feel pretty nervous

59:35

when I'm doing

59:35

that stuff. Like, say football

59:37

and dancing even. Like,

59:40

I feel like I carry a lot of baggage

59:42

around those things. I'm

59:45

not sure which one to do though, because I don't want it to be so

59:47

deep in the podcast that it's like

59:49

I'm a trembling, sobbing

59:51

wreck.

59:52

You know, so like... Also so

59:54

specific that we're tapping on a football,

59:57

you know, fear. You know what it's like.

1:00:00

Actually I'm fucking starving in a pandemic,

1:00:03

is what's happening to me. Never mind that, we'll

1:00:05

deal with that later. Like last week I spoke

1:00:07

to Edith Eager, who's like a Holocaust survivor

1:00:10

and like a psychotherapist. She's magnificent,

1:00:12

but like when she sort of segued from

1:00:14

the sort of her incredible sort of spiritual

1:00:17

experiences like evoked by

1:00:19

surviving Auschwitz and indeed enduring Auschwitz

1:00:22

while there, you know. And then she

1:00:24

transitioned and tell us about psychotherapy. There's a bit

1:00:26

where I started to want to go, yeah I've had some pretty

1:00:28

tough times.

1:00:30

Like then I thought,

1:00:33

yeah I'm not going to be talking about some of my laments

1:00:35

to a person who was buried under a pile

1:00:38

of bodies and plucked out by the

1:00:40

invading ally forces. That was a good

1:00:42

decision Russell, good. In

1:00:44

retrospect, I could do a pat on the back for

1:00:46

that. Well so we can

1:00:49

do, here's what we're going to do, we're going to do some

1:00:52

of your football stuff in the background because I

1:00:54

know you've mentioned it to me before, but that's not

1:00:56

going to affect the audience and what

1:00:58

they can work on, okay. So we're

1:01:01

going to do multiple tracks so we can help

1:01:03

everyone. So again, if you're not driving,

1:01:05

if it's safe to do so, go

1:01:07

ahead and just take a moment and close your eyes. And

1:01:11

take a gentle breath in and let

1:01:15

it go. So

1:01:17

let's tune into how we feel. If you're

1:01:19

in chronic pain, if you've been feeling pain for a long

1:01:22

time, you could isolate

1:01:24

that as something that you want to work on.

1:01:27

With tapping, we always want to get clear on, okay, what

1:01:29

is it that we're looking to release or let go

1:01:31

of?

1:01:32

So tune into any pain in your body.

1:01:35

If you're anxious about something, what

1:01:38

are you anxious about?

1:01:40

Where do you feel it in your body? If

1:01:43

you're angry, somebody said something to you five

1:01:45

days ago, you just can't let it go.

1:01:49

Whatever's in front of you,

1:01:52

and then if something's happened in your path that you've struggled

1:01:54

to let go of.

1:01:57

So Russell, for you, I want you to think when you think

1:01:59

about football.

1:02:02

Is there a memory, is there a time when you were 10

1:02:05

years old and you missed

1:02:07

a penalty kick? Is

1:02:09

there just a grade where you were on a football team

1:02:11

and

1:02:14

you didn't like the experience? Yeah,

1:02:16

there's quite a lot of memories actually and some of them

1:02:18

are like go, like what it is I realize now,

1:02:21

is it such a route to affiliated

1:02:24

challenges that I'd probably have

1:02:26

to cut some of it out of the

1:02:29

podcast which I don't do. So

1:02:31

can I be vague in my responses instead

1:02:33

of particular even though I'm being specific in my thinking?

1:02:36

Yeah, you know I'm glad you're sharing that and bringing

1:02:38

that up because again when we're looking at the tool

1:02:40

itself, this is one of the reasons why it's

1:02:42

powerful. What matters is that you think about

1:02:44

it. So even with a therapist, you know maybe you go to

1:02:47

a therapist and you don't want to share the

1:02:49

thing that is going through your mind

1:02:51

right now. Well you don't have to because we're just looking

1:02:53

to activate it in the brain. This is

1:02:55

an opportunity to think those shameful thoughts,

1:02:58

to have those shameful memories because you're not

1:03:00

sharing them with them with anyone else. They're

1:03:02

there, you're acknowledging the feeling in

1:03:04

order to let it go. So

1:03:07

wherever you are at home, tune into that one thing

1:03:09

that you want to focus on, the stress, the anxiety,

1:03:11

the overwhelm, the shameful memories,

1:03:14

the feelings, the anger and

1:03:16

as you tune into this give it a number of

1:03:18

intensity on a scale of zero to ten. So

1:03:21

if you're really angry at someone, it might be ten.

1:03:23

If you're anxious, a nine, an eight,

1:03:26

a seven, just give it a number. If you're in pain, give

1:03:28

that pain a number.

1:03:31

I'm round seven.

1:03:32

Seven and tell me Russell what you're feeling in your

1:03:34

body. It's

1:03:36

like sort of sadness behind the eyes,

1:03:39

mostly sadness behind the eyes. Yeah,

1:03:42

I would say that's the sort of dominant feeling.

1:03:45

Okay, so we've tuned into this emotion,

1:03:47

whatever it is, this feeling in our bodies. We

1:03:50

have a number and let's do some tapping. We

1:03:52

start by tapping on the side of the hand. If

1:03:55

you're listening in the car, it's

1:03:57

the outside of the hand below. the

1:04:00

pinky. You take four fingers of one hand,

1:04:02

you tap on the other hand. Whatever

1:04:05

hand feels comfortable for you.

1:04:07

We're tapping gently, we're sending that calming signal

1:04:09

to the amygdala. And then repeat after me,

1:04:12

either in your mind or out loud.

1:04:15

Even though I have this feeling in my body,

1:04:18

even though I have this feeling in my body,

1:04:21

it's safe to relax now.

1:04:24

It's safe to relax now.

1:04:26

Even though I have these old memories, when part of me

1:04:41

is

1:04:44

holding on tight,

1:04:46

to these feelings,

1:04:49

to

1:04:52

these memories, in order to stay safe,

1:04:59

in order to stay safe, I

1:05:02

choose to relax now. I

1:05:04

choose to relax now. Now

1:05:06

we'll tap through the points. I'll describe them the

1:05:08

first time. The first point is the eyebrow point

1:05:11

inside of the eyebrow, where the hair

1:05:13

ends and it meets the nose. You can take

1:05:15

two fingers of one hand, the other hand, or

1:05:17

both hands. The meridians run down both

1:05:19

sides of the body. And as you tap

1:05:21

gently, I want you to just

1:05:24

tune into the thing that you're working

1:05:26

on.

1:05:27

So if you have pain in your body, just notice

1:05:29

it.

1:05:30

If you're anxious, think the anxious

1:05:32

thoughts.

1:05:34

If you're angry, run a movie about

1:05:36

what happened. And

1:05:39

Russell, for you, go back to that time. All these memories

1:05:42

that are coming together, maybe one sticks

1:05:44

out or maybe they're just in a big pile of

1:05:47

memories. Whatever comes up is

1:05:49

perfect. Just

1:05:51

notice these memories and these feelings. Now

1:05:55

moving to the next point, the side of the eye. It's

1:05:57

right at the temple, right next to the eye, on the back.

1:06:00

bone, again, two fingers of one

1:06:02

hand, the other hand or both hands.

1:06:05

Just reconnect back to that memory,

1:06:08

that feeling, the

1:06:10

thing that happened, the pain in

1:06:13

your body, be present

1:06:15

to it under

1:06:19

the eye. A lot of people when

1:06:21

we first start this process and we focus on

1:06:24

the negative think, well, I don't want to think these anxious

1:06:26

thoughts or these negative thoughts. Why do we start

1:06:29

on the negative? And as my

1:06:31

dear departed friend, Louise Hay, that we spoke about

1:06:33

earlier said, when I asked her the

1:06:35

same question, she said, honey, if

1:06:38

you want to clean a house,

1:06:40

you have to see the dirt. We're

1:06:43

taking a moment in time now to

1:06:46

acknowledge these feelings. I was sad. I

1:06:48

was ashamed. I was angry or I am

1:06:50

angry, or I have this pain in my body. This

1:06:53

is the truth of how I feel. This

1:06:56

is my lived experience.

1:06:58

I acknowledge it. And

1:07:01

through that, I begin to let it go. Under

1:07:05

the nose, right underneath

1:07:08

the nose, two fingers, run

1:07:10

the movie, feel that feeling. Russell

1:07:15

think about football and your experiences, everything

1:07:18

you struggled with. Just

1:07:21

notice what comes up. Sometimes we'll start thinking about

1:07:23

one thing and then think about something

1:07:25

different. A specific

1:07:28

event will come up, something someone said

1:07:30

to you or

1:07:32

something that feels completely unrelated. You

1:07:36

think it's about football, but you

1:07:38

think about home life and what was happening

1:07:40

then. Whatever comes up

1:07:42

is perfect. Under

1:07:45

the mouth, above the chin, below

1:07:47

the lip and that little crease in there. Breathing

1:07:52

gently, feeling the feelings,

1:07:55

breathing gently, running that

1:07:57

movie. For

1:08:01

the collarbone point, you can take all ten fingers

1:08:03

of both hands right below the two little

1:08:06

bones of the collarbone. We

1:08:08

tap and then we just tune back in. If you get distracted,

1:08:11

if your mind wanders, if you're figuring out the

1:08:13

points, that's

1:08:15

okay. Just bring it back to that

1:08:17

thing you want to release, that pain. When

1:08:19

did that pain start?

1:08:22

What's the emotion? If that pain

1:08:24

had an emotion, what would it be?

1:08:29

What are you most anxious about? Why is

1:08:31

it not safe to relax and let go? What

1:08:36

would it take to release this anger and to forgive

1:08:39

yourself? Underneath

1:08:45

the arm, three inches underneath the armpit,

1:08:47

either side of the body, right on the bra line for women.

1:08:51

Tapping gently, tuning in, letting

1:08:54

go,

1:08:55

feeling safe. The

1:08:58

last point right at the crown of the head. Tapping

1:09:03

gently,

1:09:06

thinking the thoughts, feeling the feelings, feeling

1:09:09

safe. We'll

1:09:11

do a couple more rounds and we move right back to

1:09:13

the eyebrow, breathing

1:09:16

gently. And

1:09:18

Russell, let me know with

1:09:20

whatever's safe to share what you're experiencing.

1:09:24

Well, just some

1:09:27

memories of like the sort

1:09:30

of several sort of childhood

1:09:32

experiences that are

1:09:35

evidently the origin of

1:09:37

these feelings and perhaps how they are

1:09:39

tangentially expressed

1:09:43

through other areas of

1:09:45

my life and through

1:09:48

other experiences. But

1:09:51

as the sort of, it's interesting to do

1:09:53

it while tapping.

1:09:56

It's a sort of almost a disruption, I suppose,

1:09:59

of the... the lurid

1:10:03

vividness of the experiences

1:10:05

in their kind of rather raw form.

1:10:10

Side of the eye. Well

1:10:12

said and well explained and that's what often happens

1:10:15

for people where something is stark and

1:10:17

raw and in bright colors and painful

1:10:20

and present and then it begins to fade

1:10:22

away, to let go.

1:10:27

So if it's safe to do so whatever you're working on that

1:10:29

anxiety that pain that anger

1:10:32

something had happened in the past. Just

1:10:35

notice that with every tap it begins to move further

1:10:38

and further away under

1:10:41

the eye. Maybe begin

1:10:44

to ask yourself what

1:10:46

would happen if I let

1:10:48

this go? What

1:10:51

would happen if I release this anxiety? What

1:10:54

would happen if I release this anger?

1:10:57

Is it safe to let it go?

1:11:02

Under the nose most of the time we hold on

1:11:04

to these memories, these patterns, these feelings

1:11:07

because

1:11:08

we want to stay safe.

1:11:11

If we remember the thing that happened

1:11:13

to us in vivid detail with tons

1:11:15

of pain and anger and shame

1:11:17

it won't happen again.

1:11:21

That's what our body and mind believes

1:11:26

under the mouth but that's not the truth of it.

1:11:30

The truth is it's safe to let

1:11:32

them go. It's safe to keep the

1:11:34

memory we're not erasing anything here. It's

1:11:37

safe to keep the wisdom gleaned

1:11:39

from these past experiences

1:11:43

and it's safe to let them go.

1:11:47

Allow your body to do that now.

1:11:51

Stay safe,

1:11:52

grounded and relaxed. Hollerbone.

1:12:00

Feeling safe, grounded, and relaxed. Letting

1:12:02

go, even more. Underneath

1:12:09

the arm. Feeling

1:12:11

safe, grounded, and relaxed. Releasing

1:12:14

this pain, this anger, this anxiety, these

1:12:16

memories. Top

1:12:20

of the head. Feeling safe.

1:12:23

Letting go. And

1:12:27

we'll do one more round. Repeat

1:12:30

after me, either in your mind or out loud. It's

1:12:33

safe to let this go. Safe

1:12:36

to let this go. It's

1:12:40

safe to relax. I

1:12:48

don't have to fix everything at once. But

1:12:54

I can open the door to healing.

1:13:00

It's time to heal this.

1:13:07

Feeling safe, grounded, and

1:13:09

strong.

1:13:13

In every cell of my body. Top

1:13:17

of the head, right now.

1:13:20

Right now.

1:13:22

And just take a gentle breath in. You

1:13:25

can stop tapping.

1:13:28

And now tune in to

1:13:30

how you feel. So we did a couple of rounds there and

1:13:33

then we check in on our number. So

1:13:35

the pain was a 10 and now it's a seven

1:13:37

or six or five. You're anxious

1:13:40

at an eighth and it went to a two. You

1:13:42

started working on one thing and something else came up

1:13:45

completely. That is the

1:13:47

process of tapping, unveiling,

1:13:50

letting go. It's not a perfect process

1:13:52

where things will get done in three rounds

1:13:55

necessarily, especially if we're dealing with deep

1:13:57

childhood trauma around

1:13:58

football. Russell. but we begin

1:14:00

to open the door

1:14:02

and we begin to recognize that we have that

1:14:05

power within to change our state. So

1:14:07

you were at a seven in sadness, dear

1:14:09

friend. Where are you now?

1:14:11

I'd say like a three

1:14:13

or four, you know, three

1:14:16

more. And it like it sort of moved. It

1:14:18

felt like it sort of moved the idea. And I felt

1:14:21

like the technique is

1:14:23

effective for re... The thinnest

1:14:25

way, I suppose, what I see is that

1:14:28

yourself is editorialized.

1:14:31

Your sense of yourself is editorialized. You

1:14:33

tell yourself a story about yourself. You've

1:14:35

been told a story about yourself and

1:14:37

it is possible through various

1:14:39

means. And this one feels like an effective and

1:14:42

quick one. It's possible to go and

1:14:44

change that story. It's possible to disrupt those

1:14:46

patterns. Like I'm so fascinated by

1:14:48

what's happening biochemically

1:14:50

and anatomically. Experientially,

1:14:53

subjectively, what it feels like happening is a kind

1:14:55

of disruption and a displacement

1:14:58

of the link between

1:15:00

the memory and the feelings

1:15:03

associated with the memory.

1:15:05

Beautifully said. I couldn't have said

1:15:07

it better. You know, it's interesting when you say memory

1:15:10

and the fluidity. A lot of research has shown

1:15:12

that, you know, memory is not what we think

1:15:14

it is, right? That you can have, you

1:15:16

know, 20 witnesses to an event

1:15:18

and have 20 different accounts. So we

1:15:21

tend to think, well, I have this memory of this event

1:15:23

and that is true. And I'm not

1:15:25

saying that that event did or did not happen,

1:15:27

but that our memories can change, our

1:15:29

perception of events can change. And

1:15:31

if we change them, especially some of the childhood stuff,

1:15:34

to a more empowering one. If we change,

1:15:36

if we release, you know, the deepest

1:15:38

pain, if we allow our body to think these thoughts

1:15:41

and relax, then we can shape, you

1:15:43

know, who we are and who we want to be in the world. And

1:15:46

I mean, that's what you said beautifully. And

1:15:48

I hope that everyone takes this

1:15:50

from our conversation besides using tapping

1:15:52

and using the technique. What if you could

1:15:55

make a choice about who you want to be? What

1:15:57

if you could make a choice about the things that you

1:15:59

want to learn? What if you could make a choice about

1:16:02

being an anxious person or an angry person

1:16:04

or a someone who procrastinates or someone

1:16:06

who? You know it doesn't do

1:16:09

well in relationships or an addict. What if

1:16:11

you could rewrite the story? I

1:16:12

think that's possible, and I think tapping makes

1:16:15

it happen that much faster

1:16:17

I think you're right the great sort of 12 step

1:16:20

speaker, and I'd say thinker

1:16:23

known as Sandy Beach he

1:16:26

Says like the older I get the easier

1:16:29

my childhood was or the better my

1:16:31

childhood was you know it's the same childhood But

1:16:33

the perception always over

1:16:35

time

1:16:36

Nick you've very kindly offered a discount

1:16:39

for a tapping solution to listeners

1:16:41

of under the skin that use a particular code

1:16:44

or whatever do you have the details now

1:16:46

should I put it in the wrap-up or the

1:16:48

intro Our main website

1:16:50

is the tapping solution calm so it's

1:16:53

the tapping solution calm

1:16:55

forward slash Russell

1:16:57

to s is to else and

1:16:58

That'll get

1:17:01

you right to a place where you can download the app you can

1:17:03

download the app for free wherever you get it And there's

1:17:05

there's a bunch of free meditations, and then there's a premium

1:17:08

membership So if you want to unlock

1:17:10

the 300 plus in there, we're doing a 50% off

1:17:14

Promo for listeners of under

1:17:16

the skin you you begged me for

1:17:18

a huge discount I I

1:17:21

really balked at giving your listeners such a

1:17:23

big discount, but we're making it happen What

1:17:25

a delivery you've really what another

1:17:28

generous offer from the house

1:17:30

of Nick or no, thanks, ma'am Thanks for coming

1:17:32

on we've got for this has been

1:17:34

an hour long podcast. I've really really enjoyed

1:17:37

it There's been no mention of West Ham United's

1:17:39

recent victory against West Bromwich Albion

1:17:42

Or I don't know what Spurs did in their last

1:17:44

game Nick. I don't know I don't always look

1:17:46

Spurs once again got

1:17:49

off to an early start a 1-0 lead and

1:17:51

then you know fell apart in the last 15 minutes

1:17:53

and let up a goal

1:17:55

so

1:17:57

It's starting to look like Manchester City

1:17:59

to me

1:17:59

Nick

1:18:00

yeah I'm debating some of Mourinho's

1:18:03

tactics but that's not for me to say

1:18:05

really. Whoever

1:18:07

dare

1:18:09

query him all right mate well thank you. Yeah

1:18:12

for those that are curious you

1:18:14

know I had an ex-girlfriend that was a

1:18:16

big Tottenham fan so

1:18:19

I became a fan it's one of the things that Russell and I connected

1:18:22

with early on the American listeners won't really know

1:18:24

what we're talking about but it's Premier

1:18:26

League football and it probably affects

1:18:28

our lives more than it should. Also

1:18:30

you're Argentinian in your heritage right

1:18:32

so like

1:18:34

one of the Earth's great football nations.

1:18:37

That is correct I was born in Argentina

1:18:40

I lived there until I was almost eight years old

1:18:42

and my grandparents were British so.

1:18:45

The 80s must have been confusing. It

1:18:48

was very confusing very

1:18:51

difficult time to be a Brit in Argentina.

1:18:55

Nick thanks man thanks very much for coming

1:18:57

on I'll give you a shout later

1:19:00

but I think it's been really really lovely

1:19:02

to talk to you as it always is. Thanks

1:19:05

everyone thanks Russell big pleasure I love

1:19:07

you brother. Love you and all mate. Cheers. Thanks

1:19:09

Nick. Thank you

1:19:11

for listening to Under The Skin with Nick Orton. Let me know what

1:19:13

you thought of it on Instagram tag me at Russell Brown

1:19:15

or tweet me at Rusty Rockets with a hashtag under the

1:19:17

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1:19:19

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1:19:21

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1:19:23

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1:19:29

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1:19:32

will

1:19:33

get your email read even if I don't respond to it

1:19:35

I do tell you now in good faith

1:19:37

as a mustachioed man that I will read

1:19:39

it so join up to that RussellBrown.com

1:19:42

mailing list remember you can ask me anything if you feel

1:19:44

like it. We'll be back next week with another

1:19:46

podcast with Philippa Perry hmm

1:19:49

we've got Adam Curtis coming up soon that's

1:19:51

always exciting Jonathan Haidt.

1:19:52

Jonathan Haidt

1:19:54

that's gonna be good we're learning we're smashing our brains

1:19:56

so full of knowledge in the meantime what if

1:19:58

you enjoyed this conversation with Nick why don't you check out

1:20:00

some of these other episodes? Eddie Stern, the yoga

1:20:02

teacher, B.X. Himkin, the breath expert, David

1:20:04

Lynch, who is David Lynch? And

1:20:07

keep checking out my YouTube channel for

1:20:09

new videos. Thank you for listening to Under the Skin

1:20:12

from Luminary.