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0:53

She told told me about it to

0:55

some degree before they

0:57

came to stay in my home. I

1:00

never really investigated it.

1:02

I never really asked her more about

1:04

it. He is a very pushy person,

1:06

like, around a person like that you hesitate

1:09

to wait into any conversation, much less

1:11

something you're not interested in. I

1:13

think she was under a lot of pressure

1:15

to bring money in and

1:17

to provide, but at the same time,

1:19

not allowed to leave. Because I

1:21

think it's part of what held her in place

1:23

after she was ready to leave is she had

1:25

this dirty secret. We

1:55

all have our secrets. Right?

1:57

The things that only a select few

2:00

know about or that we

2:02

keep tucked away for no one to ever

2:04

see or know. Most

2:07

of us are fortunate enough to

2:09

be in control of our secrets, our

2:11

narrative. For a long

2:14

time, That's what Jessica did.

2:16

She had her secrets. And

2:18

for various reasons, she kept

2:21

them to herself. But

2:23

near the end of her life, she started

2:25

to open up a little, namely

2:27

with Maria, who first heard

2:29

about Jessica and Justin's not

2:31

so side hustle, while they were

2:33

staying at her home for Thanksgiving in

2:36

two thousand eighteen. When

2:38

she first started telling me about it, I just

2:40

thought they were bored. I thought they

2:42

were a couple in their forties. Maybe

2:44

the spark was gone. They spent too

2:46

much time together, so maybe they were just trying

2:48

to spice things up. I was like, you know,

2:50

whatever do you that's

2:53

entertaining to you. I didn't know that it was

2:56

really for the income the way I

2:58

think it turned out to be. So

3:01

even when they were in my home, I

3:03

never knew their stage

3:06

names. I don't know you call it a stage name online,

3:08

their online names. I never knew their alter

3:10

egos. And at one point, she

3:12

was sitting on her on my couch,

3:14

and she was like, see, look, these people

3:16

are tipping and she was, like, looking

3:18

at some app, apparently, it's very user friendly.

3:21

And there were, like, little coins

3:23

floating across the screen. The same

3:25

way people do likes or hearts

3:27

or whatever when somebody's like doing a

3:29

live stream on Facebook. So

3:31

these little coins are floating across a green,

3:33

and she was like, see, he's tipping them.

3:36

I was like, okay. Well, how much is that little

3:38

tip worth? She was like, oh, that's

3:40

like five cents. I remember

3:42

us joking back and forth and I was like, I

3:44

wonder if I could just put my feet on there. Like,

3:47

while I'm doing my files, if some weirdo wants to

3:49

look at my feet and send me some money, like, I could be okay

3:51

that. Like, that's not too risky. My

3:53

face would never be involved. I was like, I wonder if

3:55

somebody wants to pay me for my feet. But,

3:58

like alright. If you wanna

4:00

be a weirdo about my feet,

4:02

like, knock yourself out, like, here's my Venmo.

4:04

Yeah. But the conversation

4:06

never really got any further than that. This

4:08

really I'm not put minority bits on the

4:10

internet and perpetuity for my grandkids

4:12

to look up like, Nana. While

4:16

Maria was able to keep it all lighthearted,

4:19

even joking about it. Learning

4:21

that Jessica was performing sex

4:23

shows online for money was

4:25

a pretty startling peek into her life

4:28

with Justin. And it was certainly

4:31

a new revelation to her

4:33

family. But Maria

4:35

thinks it was more about

4:37

control. I

4:39

think that she would have done anything that

4:41

he wanted her to do because she really

4:43

just wanted to make him happy. I'm

4:46

not gonna completely alleviate her of

4:48

all responsibility because, you

4:50

know, she was an adult. So

4:52

it's possible that she wanted to experiment

4:54

with the sexual stuff that they were doing online

4:56

as possible that she wanted to experiment

4:58

with drugs, but that was not

5:00

at all the

5:02

Jessica that I knew

5:04

growing up. The Jessica that I

5:06

knew growing up was the sort of

5:08

girl that was comfortable wearing a strand of pearls

5:11

and an updo because we worked

5:13

in the casino industry together when people would

5:15

get into, like, salacious or scandalous situation,

5:17

she'd be like, we are southern ladies. Like, you

5:19

do not do that. So It

5:21

was a huge departure from

5:23

who I knew her to be. She

5:25

was a shadow of her former self.

5:36

To friends and family, Jessica

5:38

may have become somewhat of a shadow

5:40

of herself. But she

5:42

was still Jessica. The girl

5:44

they'd known and loved for

5:46

most of her life, well before

5:48

the camning. But

5:50

to a whole community online, she

5:53

was known as Vivianne and

5:55

her partner was Lance. These

5:58

were Jessica and Justin's calming

6:00

names.

6:01

So what exactly is

6:04

calming? Well,

6:07

it's different for everyone. But me

6:09

and my wife, specifically, we

6:12

just go on camera and

6:14

people pay us for our time. So

6:17

if we're counting for

6:19

an hour, for a specific person,

6:22

then we request a specific

6:25

dollar amount per minute, and

6:27

that's how we get paid. People are

6:29

viewing us on the screen. We have a

6:31

camera in front of us. This put

6:33

up to the computer and it's live.

6:36

So everything we do is is

6:38

live. This is

6:40

Ken. Well,

6:42

that's his camming name. Alongside

6:44

his wife, Barbie. Yeah.

6:47

Ken and Barbie. I

6:50

am Ken, and my wife

6:52

is Barbie, and we

6:54

met Justin and Jessica

6:56

through the Canning community.

7:00

In fact, as far as we know,

7:02

they are the only cameras to

7:04

have ever met up with Vivian and Lance

7:07

inside their home and saw

7:09

them together as a

7:11

couple. But it's

7:13

an experience they regretted

7:15

almost from the start. More

7:18

on that in just a minute. The

7:21

young couple got into camming,

7:23

after he lost his other online fortune.

7:27

I made a pretty hefty fortune

7:29

on Bitcoin when I was in high school.

7:32

And being young and having

7:34

a decent fortune. You don't really know how

7:36

to spend it. So me

7:38

and my wife, we dug ourselves in a hole living

7:41

in Miami. We needed something

7:43

to keep us going and keep us

7:45

alive and off the streets. So

7:48

we chose to start canning,

7:50

and it worked out really well for

7:52

us. So we just stuck with it

7:54

ever since. We really enjoyed

7:56

the job because we could spend all of

7:58

our time together. Not one of us

8:00

just haven't believed the house go to work

8:02

and things like that. So

8:05

it works for us. So you

8:07

know, immediately a bunch of canned people

8:09

started reaching out to us like, oh, wow. You're

8:11

gonna do so good at this. You're gonna

8:13

you're gonna be able to retire by the

8:15

time you're thirty blah blah blah and you

8:17

know, just, like, trying to flatter us,

8:19

trying to get close to us. And

8:21

we thought that was normal. And It

8:24

turns out that for the most

8:26

part, that a lot of them were trying to

8:28

use us because we were naïve

8:30

to the caring community and how

8:32

it works. So people were trying to get us

8:34

to help them in different

8:36

ways. And it it it just

8:38

seemed to us like everyone's out

8:40

for themselves and trying to, like,

8:42

make their end of the deal better.

8:45

Me and my wife can kinda stay

8:47

and our own little bubble. We don't really

8:49

talk to anyone else. Kim

8:53

says that while there is a

8:55

darker side to the farming community,

8:57

he and Barbie stay away from that.

8:59

It's kinda how the community works.

9:01

You only do what you feel

9:03

comfortable with. I mean,

9:07

every single person out

9:09

there has a

9:12

different experience camping.

9:14

One experience is not

9:16

the same as another. Some

9:18

people have really bad experiences, Karen,

9:21

and some people have really good

9:23

experiences, Karen. There's

9:25

definitely some bad

9:27

stigma about the

9:29

sex industry and, you know,

9:31

for what it's worth, I'm sure a lot of

9:33

it's true. And I'm not denying that,

9:36

but that's why we stick to gaming

9:38

because we get to create

9:40

our own rules and boundaries. So

9:42

if anyone steps over those

9:44

boundaries, we can put it into it by a

9:46

clickable button. If we still offended

9:48

or threatened in some

9:48

ways,

9:49

and all we gotta do is hit the block

9:51

button and they disappear. We

9:53

do this together and

9:55

only together. Don't talk to

9:57

any other cameras. We don't

9:59

post on social media really ever.

10:01

We just realized that it's

10:03

best to stay in your own little

10:05

bubble and not try to get

10:07

too far out there and meet too many

10:09

people because so far

10:11

all the people that we've

10:12

met, they've ended

10:14

in, like, really crazy experiences.

10:17

One of those crazy

10:19

experiences for Ken and Barbie

10:21

was meeting Vivian and Lance

10:23

at their home in New Orleans.

10:25

When we sat down with Ken,

10:28

he shared his personal experience

10:30

and opinions from that in

10:32

person meeting. And from

10:34

here on out in this episode, we'll

10:36

go back to referring to them as Jessica

10:39

and Justin.

10:41

They were trying to get close to us early

10:43

on because they knew that we would be

10:45

successful at this job.

10:48

And from the very beginning,

10:50

things turned out really well for us.

10:52

We didn't really have to worry about money or

10:54

anything like that. And

10:56

they just kind of reached out

10:58

to us. And then they

11:00

started to call more and

11:02

try to reach out to us more.

11:05

There were really really

11:07

easy to get along with, mostly

11:09

her, Jessica. She was really easy

11:11

to get along

11:12

with. She just kinda reel

11:14

this in

11:15

and gave us someone to talk to that

11:17

was in the industry. We're

11:19

new to it. We didn't know

11:21

anything.

11:21

So if we had any kind of questions, they

11:24

would help us out with that.

11:26

And we just talked to

11:28

them. I don't know. I'd say, maybe

11:30

once or twice a month, she

11:32

would call as that

11:34

went on, they

11:36

started doing closer to

11:38

us and whatnot. So I guess they

11:40

felt comfortable asking us for

11:42

money. Here and there, they had asked us for, like, a

11:44

hundred bucks. And

11:46

we didn't know what their situation

11:48

was. And I'm too

11:51

nice. Sometimes if

11:53

people need help, I'm

11:55

usually willing to

11:56

help. So

11:56

whenever they would ask me for money, I just

11:59

did

11:59

it. And

11:59

I didn't think anything of it.

12:01

I knew that

12:01

they had a daughter, and

12:03

I knew that they probably

12:05

weren't doing that well I

12:07

don't remember them telling us that they

12:09

had a job, so camming was

12:12

how they're making money. And every single time

12:14

they're cam, they weren't really doing

12:16

that well. That kinda made us

12:18

sad. So, yeah, we would help

12:20

every now and then. And I

12:22

don't regret it. It's whatever.

12:24

I just wish I

12:26

would have known them better

12:29

before we really got

12:31

involved with their lives. But

12:33

their meet up wasn't really something they

12:35

had planned. It was just

12:37

by happenstance. They'd driven

12:40

to Pensacola, Florida, to

12:42

meet with a friend of Barbies, but

12:44

the friend never showed.

12:46

We were like, what the heck? We

12:48

drove all the way down here. So

12:50

what could we do to make it

12:53

a trip that's not wasted? And

12:55

we remembered that Jessica and

12:58

Justin, they live in New

13:00

Orleans, and that was

13:02

just a little bit farther. So

13:05

we called them up and

13:07

we asked them if it'd be

13:09

cool if we came down to

13:11

hang out. Before

13:12

they even arrive at Jessica and Justin's

13:15

house, they see their

13:17

first red flag. We

13:19

were

13:19

basically asking them if it was cool if

13:22

we come by. And that's

13:24

whenever they started texting us.

13:26

And then they randomly

13:28

texted us a pipe

13:30

and I didn't know if there's a crack pipe or

13:32

a meth pipe. I don't know the

13:34

difference if there is a difference or

13:36

what, but they sent me a pipe it looked like

13:38

you smoked drugs out of it. And

13:41

when they did that, we're

13:43

like, what is this? I

13:45

was like, you're joking. I

13:48

like, I asked them if they were joking. And

13:50

they're like, they would send back, like,

13:52

an emoji, a last emoji or

13:54

an LL or something. Be like, yeah, we're just messing

13:56

with you. We were skeptical,

13:58

but then they said that they were joking, and

14:00

we just took it for what it was. Like,

14:02

we thought that they were joking. If

14:04

we were texting someone, we didn't know if it

14:07

was Justin or Jessica. We had

14:09

no idea. And I'm pretty

14:11

sure sometimes she would act like her. Whenever

14:13

he's texting

14:14

us. Like, sometimes we'd text

14:16

him, we're like, this feels

14:18

like it's just in texting us

14:20

right now. We didn't

14:21

think anything of that until

14:23

we met him, and then

14:25

we saw how he

14:26

was. It all happened so

14:29

gradually. It's like they just reel this

14:31

in. When Ken

14:33

and Barbie pull into the driveway at their

14:36

lakeview home, everything

14:38

seems fine at first.

14:41

Everything's cool at first. He

14:44

kinda looks like he's cracked out,

14:46

which we

14:48

thought was weird at first, but then we

14:50

kinda just blew it off because we

14:52

didn't wanna demand or

14:54

we just didn't want to make a scene or

14:56

make them feel uncomfortable.

14:59

Justin's demeanor is something

15:01

Ken remembers vividly.

15:04

He looked like he was on some kind

15:06

of drug that was, like, speed. Like,

15:09

it is making him talk really

15:11

fast and, like, make

15:13

really weird movements and

15:15

stuff. And

15:16

we didn't know if that was just his personality

15:19

or if he was on

15:21

drugs. We didn't

15:21

know. He told us that he took

15:24

Adderall, prescribed

15:26

Adderall. So we didn't know if it

15:28

was that either. But, anyway, we

15:30

came into this whole situation,

15:33

non judgmental. We just like this is

15:35

our first time meeting them. We just

15:37

wanted to meet them and didn't

15:39

wanna make a big deal out of it. Ken

15:42

and Barbie quickly realized they're

15:44

not the only other ones in the

15:46

house. Soon late

15:48

meet Justin's Undetermined

15:51

notice that his elderly father was

15:53

there

15:53

too, though they never spoke.

15:55

He was always in the other room

15:58

for lights off. You could just see him through

16:00

the doorway. That's

16:01

another reason why it was sketchy. Like,

16:03

he never introduced himself to me.

16:05

He

16:06

never spoke a word to me.

16:09

Justin said the whole time I could just

16:11

ignore

16:11

him. Don't talk to

16:13

him. just thought it was the weirdest

16:15

thing. As the

16:17

visit continues, their concerns

16:20

for Jessica begin

16:22

to fester. We were

16:24

most scared for her. It's

16:26

like she's stuck here

16:28

with these crazy

16:30

people. I just don't

16:32

understand. I don't understand

16:34

how she's at that house. Kim's

16:37

growing impression of Justin

16:40

kept signaling to him that something

16:42

was just off about

16:44

this whole

16:44

thing. He tried to

16:47

sell me a gun. He showed

16:49

me a bunch of pictures on his phone,

16:51

and he was like, I can get you one of

16:53

these. You just send me three thousand dollars cash,

16:56

and I'll give you one. He's trying to make

16:58

money. I don't even know if he

17:00

has real guns or if he's

17:02

just showing people pictures on

17:04

his

17:04

phone, trying

17:05

to make

17:05

a quick dollar. I don't know. And

17:07

he'd say that he used

17:08

to be in the marines. Whenever

17:10

he was showing me guns, that's where I thought

17:12

he had guns from was being in

17:14

the military, and I didn't

17:16

ask to cheat him because I didn't care

17:18

about

17:18

him. He offered to buy me a gun or sell me

17:20

a gun. And I was like, I'm good. And

17:23

you just had a lot of sketchy things.

17:36

Pushing past the awkward chit chat and

17:38

gun pedaling, the two

17:40

couples tried to make the most out of

17:42

the

17:42

visit. And do what they do.

17:45

Cam. But that turned

17:47

out to be kind of a bust

17:48

too. We plan to

17:51

do a cam show did

17:53

like a big bathtub. It was

17:55

kinda like a hot tub. It

17:57

was a work thing.

17:58

And it just wasn't going well. Jessica.

18:01

She seemed uncomfortable. It

18:04

just wasn't

18:05

working. And

18:06

we just kinda hung out and talked some more

18:08

until nighttime came. But his

18:10

night fell, things

18:13

took a turn.

18:15

Justin, he pulled out meth and

18:19

they both start smoking it and they try to get us to

18:21

smoke it. And we're like, no, we don't

18:23

wanna smoke it. So

18:25

we're just kind of

18:27

awkward. We're not very comfortable with

18:29

the situation.

18:30

They had a little container.

18:34

I've never same math before. I don't know the

18:36

quantity of what it

18:39

was. They had

18:39

this little contact lens

18:42

and it was full of it.

18:44

It just kinda

18:44

gets kind of weird. We

18:47

don't want

18:47

it. Like, say that we wanna

18:50

leave. We were too

18:52

nice.

18:52

So we

18:52

just kind of stuck around while

18:55

they didn't

18:56

that. They were okay

18:57

at first. I mean,

18:59

they were, like, the same. They were just

19:01

a little up, you know.

19:05

Their nerves and everything, and they were just

19:07

up in, like, full of

19:09

energy. And

19:10

in no time at all, the

19:13

shit hits the

19:14

fan. They just

19:16

start out of

19:17

nowhere. They,

19:18

like, start yelling at each there.

19:21

And don't know what it has to do with

19:23

it. It it were whispering and stuff

19:25

before they started really young at each other.

19:28

And we thought that

19:30

we could basically be a mediator,

19:32

but make the situation calm

19:34

down a bit and,

19:36

like, figure out what's going on and

19:38

why they're so upset. So we're

19:40

like, hey, what's going on?

19:43

And I have to, like, really get in

19:45

there and be like, okay. Hey. How about

19:47

we separate? And Jessica

19:49

goes in her car, and

19:51

Justin stays in the room, and I

19:53

start talking to Justin, my

19:55

wife, doesn't talk to Jessica.

19:58

And Justin

20:01

is all over the

20:03

place. Like, have to tell him, I can't even

20:05

understand what he's saying, but he's calling her

20:07

all kinds of names and he's saying that

20:09

he's gonna do stuff to

20:10

her. And I'm like, what the

20:13

fuck is going on

20:13

here? He

20:15

was calling her a bitch and

20:17

a horror and stuff

20:19

like

20:19

that and he was gonna beat her in

20:22

just, you know, really violent

20:25

stuff. He was out of his mind at

20:27

that moment. He was mad

20:29

because Jessica said that

20:31

she wanted to have

20:33

sex with

20:33

me. And I was like, Okay.

20:37

That makes sense why you're

20:38

mad. Then I go to the car and I'm

20:41

like, okay. So what's going on?

20:43

And Jessica just seemed

20:46

scared. You know, she just seems like she's scared.

20:48

She doesn't want to

20:50

talk to him. She doesn't want

20:53

to see him. She's sitting

20:55

in the car crying. Just

20:57

saying that she's

20:59

just

20:59

scared. And we felt bad for

21:02

her.

21:02

At that point,

21:04

we go back inside. I tell

21:06

Jess I'm

21:06

like, okay.

21:08

Jessica's gonna

21:08

come back in here, but

21:10

you have to stop yelling and you have

21:12

to stop being so violent. And he

21:14

was like, okay. Right

21:17

whenever Jessica walks through the door, he starts screaming

21:19

and yelling again. And we're like, what the

21:21

heck? This is exactly the

21:24

opposite of what you said you were

21:26

gonna

21:26

do. So things weren't working out.

21:28

I tried one last time till I tell him

21:31

that he needs to calm down and he freaked out on

21:33

me. He said,

21:35

if you don't shut the fuck up,

21:37

then I'm gonna splatter

21:39

your head against the wall.

21:42

He threatened to bash my head into

21:44

the wall. And at

21:46

that

21:46

moment, I was genuinely scared.

21:49

He was a

21:50

way bigger guy than me, and

21:52

he just gotten out of control.

21:55

I don't know how far he's willing to go

21:57

or if he was actually gonna

21:59

hurt

21:59

me. So at

22:00

that moment, we were like, okay,

22:03

we're gonna grab our ags

22:05

and we're gonna go.

22:08

But before they left,

22:10

the couple tried to help a hysterical

22:13

inconsolable, Jessica.

22:16

Jessica,

22:16

she followed us to the door and she was, like,

22:19

crying. She was sobbing. She was, like, I'm so

22:21

sorry. I'm so

22:22

sorry. And then we were like, okay, listen,

22:24

disco. We're going to a

22:25

hotel. If you wanna come with

22:28

us, you can't just hop in the

22:30

car with us. And she was like, I

22:32

can't I can't I can't

22:33

go. And we were like,

22:36

listen, you need to come in the car with

22:38

us and we're gonna go to a hotel for a

22:40

couple

22:40

It's

22:41

not a big deal. You just need to get away

22:43

from her.

22:43

And she

22:44

didn't listen.

22:45

She was scared that he was gonna

22:47

do something more. I'm sure

22:50

in that little sliver of time that we

22:52

spent with them,

22:53

we saw how violent he could get.

22:56

And we figured that

22:58

it wasn't gonna end

22:59

well just

23:00

because of that experience. It was

23:03

just the weirdest weekend

23:05

we've ever had. After

23:07

we left and went back

23:10

home, they called us like a

23:12

week later. And it

23:14

was really just them apologizing

23:17

and saying, sorry, like,

23:19

over and over again. And we

23:21

basically just let them know that we

23:23

don't want to speak to them ever again. We told them to

23:25

stop calling us. And I think that

23:27

was the most blunt we ever were

23:29

with them. It was

23:31

easier not having to be face to face

23:33

with them just to be able to

23:35

tell them over the

23:35

phone, but they listened.

23:38

They didn't call us ever again.

23:40

This all happened just

23:42

a few months before Jessica

23:45

vanished. The unsettling experience

23:47

has stuck with Ken and Barbie.

23:50

They've thought about it ever since they left

23:52

that day. But when they

23:54

caught wind, the Jessica was

23:56

found dead That's when

23:58

they really started having thoughts.

24:00

We

24:03

think that Jessica had a

24:06

good heart. And we think

24:08

she was a good

24:10

person and she was a pleasure to

24:12

be

24:12

around. Justin, on the other hand, was

24:16

not. What I think what happened

24:18

was just traumatic came to her

24:20

senses and was like, okay.

24:22

I gotta get away from this

24:24

guy. No matter the

24:26

theories about what happened to Jessica,

24:28

the fact remained. She

24:32

was gone. What was

24:34

left were her remains, which had been

24:36

released to Justin as her next of

24:38

kin, though he hadn't

24:40

claimed them. Instead, he

24:42

took to the Internet to try and raise

24:44

money for a funeral, one that

24:46

Jessica's family had already offered to

24:48

take care of. He created

24:51

two separate GoFundMe accounts.

24:53

One under her legal name,

24:56

Jessica. The other under

24:58

her kimming name Vivianne, offering

25:01

various items in return

25:03

for donations,

25:04

shoes, lingerie, even

25:07

photos, He was sitting there

25:09

selling her image. And then we

25:11

tried to get all that stuff shut down, and

25:13

the cop said that they would look

25:16

into but they never never did anything.

25:18

It was us that got that all

25:20

shut down. And there must have

25:22

been, like, seven or eight

25:24

porn sites. I ended up

25:27

getting on Twitter in January.

25:29

And I put my story out there

25:31

about Jessica, and I had

25:34

at least thirty inbox messages

25:38

saying to me, what do

25:40

you mean she died in August? He's been

25:42

telling us in November. Like,

25:45

no. August. Everyone

25:47

he was following, I went

25:49

on his thing, and I just started following all

25:51

the people, and I started tagging him.

25:54

So that they would see my sister's story.

25:56

It was just a mess. It was just it

25:58

was chaotic. I mean, he was

26:01

sitting there

26:02

Like, he didn't even have a care, like, he didn't even

26:05

care about Jessica. The

26:09

Kiming community was

26:11

incensed and they rallied,

26:13

finding ways to shut down as many

26:15

of his online accounts as possible,

26:18

which seemed to stop him in his

26:21

tracks. And while Jessica sat

26:23

alone inside the coroner's

26:25

office unclaimed, her

26:27

family couldn't get the one

26:29

thing they wanted the most. Jessica,

26:33

to make matters

26:35

worse, they were also lacking

26:37

answers about what happened to

26:39

her. A quick visit from Todd

26:41

Knight to the New Orleans Police Department

26:44

wouldn't lend any assurance as to

26:46

where their investigation and

26:48

was headed.

26:50

It's considered unclassified. So

26:54

an unclassified debt

26:56

leave us in limbo because we're not allowed

26:58

to make any movements regarding the

27:00

case because we don't have a a

27:02

Undetermined cause. A pit.

27:04

So no one here would be like

27:07

trying to go out and find more information

27:09

to fill in holes in

27:11

what happened. Because it's a forensics Undetermined

27:29

is a production of recordings and tenderfoot

27:32

TV in conjunction with

27:34

Cadence thirteen, written and

27:36

hosted by me. Jessica

27:38

Holmes, and produced by Dennis

27:41

Cooper and Todd Macombas, with

27:43

additional production by Whitney

27:45

B Ozark, Executive producers

27:47

are Dennis Cooper, Mark Minery,

27:50

Jacob Bozar, Donald Albright

27:52

and Payne Lindsay. Our

27:55

senior producer is John Street.

27:58

Editing, mixing, mastering,

28:00

and sound design by

28:02

Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and

28:04

Pat Kicklider of the resonate

28:06

recordings team. If you have a

28:08

podcast or are looking to start

28:10

one, check us out at

28:12

resonate recordings dot

28:14

com. Our theme song and

28:16

original score is by Dirt Core

28:18

Robbins with additional scoring

28:20

by Dayton Cole. Our cover art is

28:22

by station sixteen. You

28:24

can follow undetermined podcast

28:26

on Facebook and on Twitter

28:28

at undetermined pod.

28:31

Show notes as well as bonus content can be found

28:33

on our website undetermined

28:36

pod dot com. If you

28:38

enjoyed this episode, please

28:40

take time to subscribe,

28:42

rate, and review. Your

28:44

feedback is greatly appreciated. And

28:47

finally, if you have any

28:49

information about this case, call

28:51

crimestoppers at 18779037867