0:00

Hello,

0:00

undisclosed listeners. Ramyah

0:02

here. I have to admit it is a

0:04

bit surreal recording this

0:07

new intro to our first

0:09

few episodes of the state

0:11

versus the non sad because

0:14

it is just a mere days after a non was

0:16

released from prison. And

0:18

it has been such a long journey to get

0:20

here. And for those of you

0:23

who know us and know our work, know how much

0:25

time effort and energy Susan Colin

0:27

have put in and

0:30

how deeply we've dug into this case, and

0:32

it was pretty gratifying by the way to

0:34

see some of the evidence that undisclosed reported

0:37

many years ago actually be included

0:40

in the state's motion to vacate a non

0:42

conviction and it was

0:44

like a dream sitting behind Adnan

0:46

and watching them remove his shackles and then following

0:48

him out of the courtroom. For those

0:50

of you who are new, here

0:53

and just discovering undisclosed. I

0:56

hope this journey is one that takes

0:58

you on a discovery of how lawyers

1:00

and investigators unpack wrongful

1:02

conviction, how to really

1:04

look at evidence in a case, and

1:06

what's the difference between understanding

1:10

kind of the the legal issues present

1:12

in a case versus crafting

1:15

an interesting and entertaining narrative.

1:18

I also wanna thank everybody who has supported

1:20

us all these years. We could not have been here without

1:22

you. We could not have continued undisclosed and

1:24

helping so many more defendants without you.

1:27

Many of you have contributed to Adnan's

1:29

legal defense, which basically

1:32

I have used, you know, to pay

1:34

his legal bills I have cut those checks

1:36

myself from his legal defense fund, and

1:39

I thank you so much for that. On

1:41

the day he was released, I launched in

1:43

anticipation I had it ready just in case it

1:45

was gonna happen. That's my job. A

1:47

couple of additional fundraisers shutting

1:51

down the older ones. the

1:53

free adnan ones to we free

1:55

adnan fundraisers in

1:57

order to help him reenter his

1:59

life.

1:59

You know? when a person is released

2:02

from prison, they are released with essentially

2:04

nothing, but the clothes on their back.

2:06

And we don't know what

2:08

kind of compensation he might get from the state

2:10

at any point or if he would even get it at

2:12

all. But we do know that he has a law he's

2:14

gonna have a lot of needs from housing to

2:17

a car to just, you know,

2:19

living his life. And if you'd

2:21

like to support that, there's a couple

2:23

of ways to do it. First of all, you can

2:25

go to the launch good website.

2:27

It's launch good dot com slash

2:29

adan sad, LAUNCHG00D

2:34

dot com, slash add non

2:36

say add launch good dot com slash

2:38

add and you can make any

2:40

amount of donation there you want. Another

2:42

way to support is by buying

2:45

some new merchandise that says hashtag

2:47

weafreid adnan. And

2:49

you do that by going to cause team dot

2:52

CAUSTEAM cause

2:54

team dot com on their very first page,

2:56

you will see a featured

2:58

cause and that is a non smart

3:01

A third way is also his Patreon

3:03

account, which the patrons have been incredible

3:06

for years. Now they've been giving money monthly

3:08

five bucks, ten bucks, twenty bucks. And

3:10

all that money every month has been used

3:13

directly to his defense fund and used for

3:15

his bills. We also don't know if

3:17

he's gonna have more legal bills he might. So

3:19

if you'd like to be a monthly contributor of five

3:21

or ten bucks, you can go to patreon

3:23

dot comfree at nine. I'm just gonna keep

3:25

that. that you are all up

3:27

and active, and that's a third

3:29

way to do it. One last thing I'm going

3:31

to say is that as many

3:32

of you know, undisclosed wrapped up

3:35

this past year and Susan went

3:37

on to start a new innocence podcast

3:39

called Proof. It is excellent. Susan

3:41

doing her thing. Check it out. but

3:43

I also want you to stay subscribed to

3:45

this feed because next early next year,

3:47

Colin Miller and I will be back in

3:49

this very feed to

3:51

launch a new innocence podcast.

3:55

Don't go We are still doing the work.

3:57

There are still people who need their stories heard.

4:00

Stay right here so we can tell them to you.

4:02

And thank you.

4:04

How about any school activities while you're here?

4:06

I played I feel like you for two years.

4:08

I've played across

4:09

to theirs and also manage voice rest.

4:12

That's a lot to do. Do you have time to have

4:14

a job while you're doing this? Yeah.

4:15

I'm trying to manage my schoolwork. and

4:17

my after score.

4:35

That was the voice of Hayman Lee, filmed

4:37

by Channel thirty six, a Baltimore County

4:39

Public School Station, who is filming for student

4:41

athlete of the month. According

4:43

to the state, the storming took place on January

4:46

thirteenth nineteen ninety nine, the very

4:48

last day that Hammond Lee would be seen alive.

4:54

Hi, and welcome to undisclosed. My name is Robbie

4:56

Chaudhry. I'm an attorney and author of a

4:58

non story, and I'm here with my colleagues Susan

5:00

Simpson, and Colin Miller.

5:01

Hi. I'm Susan Simpson. I'm an attorney in

5:03

Washington DC, and I blog at the view of

5:05

Melo too. Hi. This is Colin Miller. I'm an

5:07

associate dean and professor at the University

5:09

of South Carolina School of Law, and I blog

5:11

at evidence prof blog.

5:29

So

5:38

what do we know about Haman Lee? Hay

5:40

was eighteen years old, a senior in high school,

5:42

a scholar athlete with a three point eight GPA.

5:45

She played lacrosse. She co managed the boys'

5:47

wrestling team, and she worked a part time

5:49

job. She was popular. She

5:51

was definitely hardworking and she was a

5:53

star of Woodland High School's magnet

5:55

program. In October

5:57

of nineteen ninety eight, Hay, while she

5:59

was

5:59

still dating a Don, met and fell for

6:02

a young man named Don, who worked with

6:04

her the lens crafter stores in the Owens

6:06

Mills Mall in Maryland. Don

6:08

was older, he didn't come with some of

6:10

the cultural baggage that Nand did, and

6:12

besides their relationship had been

6:14

on and off since the homecoming dance.

6:16

So by the end of December nineteen ninety

6:18

eight, Hsieh and Adnan had broken up.

6:24

And while non began seeing other young

6:26

ladies, hand on had their

6:28

very first date on

6:29

January first, nineteen ninety nine.

6:33

That

6:33

day together, they drove to Aberdeen, Maryland

6:35

and had dinner at Olive Garden. The

6:37

two had been dating for almost two weeks

6:39

on January twelfth, which

6:41

was the last time they'd ever see each other.

6:43

It was

6:44

a day before she disappeared and never

6:46

be seen alive again. Hay

6:49

spent the evening of January twelve, nineteen

6:51

ninety

6:51

nine at Don's home in Bel Air, Maryland.

6:53

When

6:54

interviewed,

6:55

Donna called hey being in a

6:57

good mood despite having argued with her

6:59

mother about breaking curfew.

7:02

According to Don, Hay left his home

7:04

around ten thirty PM and she got

7:06

back to her house around eleven thirty.

7:08

Once home, Hay and Don stayed up until about

7:10

three AM that night talking on the phone.

7:13

That same

7:15

night, Anad also called hay at

7:17

twelve thirty five AM for a minute

7:19

and a half. In order to give her his

7:21

brand new cell phone number, from the phone he'd

7:23

just gotten that day.

7:25

He

7:27

wrote down a non's number enter diary and resumed

7:29

talking to Don,

7:30

and then made a short diary entry about

7:33

Don.

7:34

According to Don, he tried to convince

7:36

him to call into her school the next day

7:38

to pretend to be a relative and to tell a

7:40

school that she was sick

7:42

so that she could get out and spend the next

7:44

day with him on January

7:45

thirteenth.

7:46

But Don talked her out of it, so

7:49

she said, okay, and that she would give

7:51

them a call the next day after her

7:53

own work ship ended.

7:54

She was scheduled to work from six to ten PM

7:56

the following night at Owens Mills Mall.

7:59

That would be the last time according to Dawn

8:01

that he ever spoke to her.

8:05

In this episode, we're going to try

8:07

to determine what Hays schedule

8:09

was on January thirteenth nineteen ninety nine.

8:12

and

8:12

who the last person to see her

8:13

alive was.

8:16

Let's start though with the state version

8:18

of her day. According to the state,

8:20

Eamon Lee went to school on the morning of January

8:22

thirteenth like any other day. She

8:24

was on time and she had classes all day.

8:26

During the course of her day, She was interviewed

8:28

on film by Channel thirty six about being

8:30

a stellar lacrosse player and a

8:32

great student at the same time, part of

8:34

which we heard at the top of this episode. At

8:37

some point, according to the state, she was asked

8:39

by Adnan for a ride after school.

8:42

Later in the afternoon, Ayesha saw

8:44

her and Adnan talking. And

8:47

then at the very end of the day, Inez

8:49

Butler, a teacher and instructor at the

8:51

school, saw he leave the school

8:53

after first pulling her car in front of her

8:55

concession stand. hey ran out of a

8:57

car, grabbed hot fries and apple juice,

8:59

and then told Iness that she would be back for

9:01

the wrestling match. But

9:03

you

9:03

might recall that during cereal, someone

9:05

else came forward, someone we hadn't

9:07

heard from before. Her name

9:09

was Summer.

9:10

According to Summer, Hae was seen at school

9:13

much after Aeneh saw Hae already

9:15

leave. Summer says she

9:17

remembers January thirteenth nineteen ninety

9:19

nine because she was supposed to be scoring

9:21

a wrestling match with hay later that

9:23

evening. And hay told her she'd be

9:25

there, but she never showed up. So

9:27

there seemed to be different versions of

9:29

who the last person at school to see her

9:31

alive actually was. Was

9:33

it Ines Butler? or was it summer?

9:36

Now that

9:38

might sound strange to our listeners to

9:40

have all different possibilities about the last

9:42

person to see hey alive. it's really

9:44

not. In fact, if you're a film

9:46

buff like me, you might recall a movie

9:48

called Rashomon. It's about a

9:50

body that's found in the woods and four

9:52

different witnesses with four very different stories

9:54

about interacting with that victim before he

9:57

died. And in fact, that movie

9:59

was so popular,

9:59

it spawned this term, the rashomon

10:02

effect. which

10:02

basically says you're gonna have as many

10:05

different stories about an event as you have

10:07

witnesses because of problems in

10:09

perception, memory, and sometimes

10:11

even honesty. And

10:13

so as we know his attorneys, that's

10:15

why it's so important in a criminal case for

10:17

both the prosecution and defense to

10:19

really pin down the objective facts.

10:21

they can determine which witnesses are telling the

10:24

truth and which witnesses relying or

10:26

just misremembering. Which is

10:28

exactly what we're gonna do today? We're

10:30

going to go hour by hour through his

10:32

day. What we know of it? What

10:34

witnesses have said? And all the

10:36

accounts of things that he supposedly did

10:38

and where she was and what she was planning to

10:40

do. We'll soon realize

10:42

though that all these stories can't be right.

10:44

And beyond that, neither

10:46

the state its version nor the podcast

10:48

serial's version of his day can

10:50

be right either.

11:02

January thirteenth nineteen ninety nine

11:05

was a warm winter day with temperatures in

11:07

the fifties. Pay got

11:09

dressed in a black skirt, a nice

11:11

blouse, stockings, black heels, and

11:13

a white jacket. The last

11:15

time her grandmother ever saw her, it was

11:18

around seven thirty AM. He

11:21

was leaving the house and getting into her gray

11:23

Nissan. School began at

11:25

seven forty five AM and students

11:27

began

11:27

arriving at the school at around seven thirty.

11:30

The day before on January twelfth, Hay

11:32

had been late to school, but she arrived

11:34

on time on the thirteenth. And

11:36

Christa remembered seeing both Hay

11:38

and Anan before class on

11:40

that morning.

11:43

Out in

11:43

the hallway as they were heading to

11:45

their first period classes, Krista

11:47

says she saw Adnan and asked Kaye for a

11:49

ride later that day, and Kaye said

11:51

sure. Kaye then went on to

11:53

her first period while Adnan and Krista

11:55

walked together towards if her talk the class

11:57

down the hall.

12:00

At seven forty five AM, the

12:02

bell rings for the first period of

12:04

the day. Hay's first period was in miss

12:06

Shop's

12:06

French class.

12:08

She wasn't

12:09

a student in that class. She was a teacher's

12:11

assistant. And she

12:12

was probably a TA because she had

12:14

a really close relationship with Ms. Schaub.

12:17

And in fact, Pei had plans to go

12:19

with her on a class trip to France in

12:21

June. A

12:22

side point by the way is that we

12:24

also know that Mishaw had an

12:26

interesting role to play in the investigation of

12:28

this case. And

12:29

maybe that was because of her close relationship

12:32

with Hay. Miss Shah was

12:34

heavily involved in the investigation

12:35

at all stages.

12:37

She

12:37

was either self appointed or was

12:40

asked by the police to act as a go

12:42

between for the cops and the teachers and

12:44

the students at Woodland during both

12:46

the missing person investigation and

12:48

later, the murder

12:49

investigation. Miss

12:50

Shoppe seems to have been suspicious of

12:52

a nod from very early on and

12:55

believe that he was not acting normally

12:57

in response to questions from investigators

12:59

and teachers about what he knew.

13:03

At

13:03

nine fifteen AM, the bell rings for

13:05

the second period of the day.

13:07

Now as we mentioned in last episode,

13:09

Woodlawn had eight days and b

13:11

days. eight days were social sciences and

13:13

b days were English. And

13:15

Debbie had a clear recollection of saying

13:17

hey in class, but As we said before,

13:19

she recalled that day was an a

13:21

day with social sciences, but

13:23

we know from a school record, in fact, it was a

13:26

b day. So while Debbie

13:28

remember saying hey, she definitely had

13:30

the wrong day.

13:33

Stephanie also remember saying hey that day in

13:35

second period in English class And

13:37

Stephanie assured it was on the thirteenth because

13:39

it was her birthday. And it was also the

13:41

class where Adnan left a stuffed reindeer

13:43

on her desk. There's a

13:45

third person too who remembered seeing hay during

13:47

the second period, and that's Iness

13:49

Butler, the school's PSA

13:51

teacher and athletic trainer. Iness

13:54

remembered, hey, coming to her room during second

13:56

period and asking for the keys to the

13:58

uniform locker so that she could change

13:59

for the filming. but

14:02

neither Stephanie or Debbie recalled

14:04

hay leaving class for any

14:06

reason. Either hay was

14:08

in class according to Stephanie and Debbie

14:10

and nothing out of the ordinary happened,

14:12

or Iness is right, and she

14:14

apparently left the class early to get her

14:16

lacrosse uniform to start filming for

14:18

the news clip. Although

14:20

there is a possibility that he was in class

14:22

and then she popped out and nobody really

14:25

noticed. You think

14:27

someone would have seen that though. if she's

14:29

getting up in the middle of class to leave. That

14:31

would stand out more than her just being there

14:33

the whole time, but it doesn't mean

14:35

it couldn't have happened. The

14:37

other interesting thing is that Debbie in her

14:39

interview with detectives says that she

14:41

has no recollection whatsoever of

14:43

hey filming anything on January

14:46

thirteenth.

14:48

There's also kind of a question though as to

14:51

what time this filming took place.

14:52

We have the video clip of Hey being

14:54

interviewed. and there's the clock in the gym

14:57

and it's an action shot. She's

14:59

doing a little cross moving the video.

15:01

We've actually blown up the screenshots

15:03

this clock. And in two different

15:05

clips, the clock seemed to be at ten thirty in the

15:07

morning and then ten thirty five in the

15:09

morning, which should be right at the very end of

15:11

second period. We also had a statement

15:13

from the athletic director, Graham. He

15:15

said that filming took place that day from nine

15:17

AM to one PM, and that a lot

15:19

of students were filmed. So hate

15:21

could have been filmed around ten thirty, ten

15:23

thirty five, but that doesn't really mesh

15:25

with the students who recall seeing her in class

15:27

that day. The question of whether or

15:29

not that video footage was taken on January

15:31

thirteenth nineteen ninety nine

15:33

remains.

15:37

So now

15:40

it's third period. For

15:42

Hainan and On, it was lunch period, which

15:44

starts at ten forty AM.

15:47

Remember, if Hsieh is filming at ten thirty

15:49

five in the gym? It's tough

15:51

to see her having changed and being in the

15:53

lunch room by ten forty, but

15:55

Nonetheless, we have these witness

15:57

statements saying that she was there. Becky,

15:59

who

15:59

we mentioned in episode one, is

16:02

a friend of both Hsieh and Anand, and

16:04

she clearly recalled sitting right next to hay at

16:06

lunch period on the thirteenth. Hay

16:08

was pretty quiet according to Becky. And

16:09

when she asked why, Hay

16:12

told her she was thinking about Dawn.

16:15

Becky

16:15

also recalled a discussion of Stephanie's

16:17

birthday and the birthday present that she was

16:19

given. Finally,

16:20

Bekie remembered a discussion

16:22

of the ride that Hay was supposed to give to

16:24

a nun after school.

16:27

Becky

16:27

seems to have a pretty clear memory of

16:29

Hay being there in the lunchroom on the

16:31

thirteenth, and

16:31

does not mention hay being late to lunch for

16:34

any reason. And then there's

16:36

Stephanie who remembers about the same thing

16:38

as Becky, that hay was there at

16:40

lunch that day. So

16:42

we have two witnesses who place

16:44

Kaya lunch about five minutes after

16:46

she's supposedly in the gym filming for

16:48

Channel thirty six.

16:50

There is

16:52

the possibility that he was filming at ten

16:54

thirty five, changed out of her uniform,

16:57

washed up, came to lunch,

16:59

and maybe was there a little bit later. Oftentimes

17:02

in high school, with the way lunches,

17:04

people just kind of filter in and

17:06

out. But if

17:07

she was filmed on the thirteenth, she

17:09

would have had to have left class early

17:11

halfway through

17:12

or even sooner.

17:14

and then wanna show up again late

17:15

to lunch. And not one

17:17

person recall seeing her remembers anything

17:20

like that.

17:23

Another significant thing is this.

17:25

If he was featured as student athlete

17:27

of the month and film that

17:29

day, You

17:29

would imagine at least one of our friends would have known, but

17:32

none of our friends mentioned

17:34

it. And none of the statements of

17:36

Hays friends know that mentioned

17:38

being filmed that day either.

17:41

Especially because

17:42

if she really had been filmed

17:44

and interviewed on the day of her

17:46

disappearance, that

17:47

would have come up at the time you think, at

17:49

some point in time in talking to all

17:51

these witnesses. And

17:55

imagine this. If

17:56

Pei had just been filming and then

17:58

come to lunch right after, it

17:59

seems like she would have

18:00

wanted to talk about it and been excited about it

18:03

and over at least have mentioned

18:05

it. Instead though,

18:08

her

18:08

classmates said that she seemed quiet

18:09

at lunch thinking about

18:12

Dawn. Speaking of Dawn,

18:14

remember that Dawn told cereal that

18:16

on the night before, on the twelfth,

18:18

he was asking him if he would call her

18:20

in sick from school

18:21

the next day so that she could spend

18:23

the day with him. If she had

18:25

an interview that she was going to be

18:27

filmed for and put on cable TV, why would

18:29

she want to fake

18:31

things sick?

18:41

period

18:41

began at eleven ten AM.

18:43

We know that he had computer information class

18:45

during this time period. We don't know

18:47

who the teacher was, We don't

18:49

know who her classmates were, we don't even know if she was there

18:51

that day. The police never talked to that

18:54

teacher, never tried to find out what she'd

18:56

been doing during this time period.

18:59

So while we assumed she was in class, we

19:01

don't actually know that for sure.

19:03

And unfortunately can't account for this

19:05

hundred minutes of her school day. The

19:06

fifth period

19:10

began at twelve fifty PM, and this

19:12

was the last period of the day,

19:14

AP Psychology. This is a class that

19:16

we know was taken by Adnan, Hay,

19:18

Becky, and Ayesha, who was Hay's

19:21

best friend. The class started at

19:23

twelve fifty five PM, but it turned out

19:25

that athletic director Graham told the

19:27

police that while the film crew had been filming

19:29

different students from nine AM to

19:31

one PM, He saw hay at one

19:33

thirty pm, saying

19:35

specifically that it was right after she finished

19:36

filming.

19:38

Well, if that was the case, he would have either missed

19:40

AP psychology or been really

19:43

late. Here's a

19:45

thing though. Hay is not marked late for

19:47

psychology class despite us having

19:49

other records of people being marked late to

19:51

class. Because the teacher of that class

19:53

apparently took very close note of who showed up

19:55

late in who didn't. In

19:57

his notes for that day, the teacher had marked

19:59

all the names of

19:59

students who weren't there at the first

20:02

bell. And that's how we know that a nun

20:04

was late. because he marked

20:06

Adnan walking in at around one twenty

20:08

seven PM. And another

20:09

student, Adnan's friend Mac, was

20:11

noted at walking in at two PM.

20:14

It's also not

20:16

clear why the athletic director thought he saw

20:18

he hit one thirty pm. When the clock in

20:20

the gym all shows the interview took place

20:22

at ten thirty am. Now for

20:24

the record, we tried to find this clip, the

20:27

original, and find out if there's a time stamp

20:29

or a date stamp on it. But so far,

20:31

no one seems to have the original copy,

20:33

including thirty six. So

20:35

how do we reconcile these statements about his

20:37

TV interview, class attendance records,

20:40

and our French recollections? Well,

20:42

it's important to note that Graham didn't give the statement to

20:44

the police until February twenty second,

20:47

six weeks after he went missing, and

20:49

weeks after her body had been found.

20:51

It could simply have been a matter of him getting his dates

20:54

wrong, and that he wasn't in fact interviewed on

20:56

January thirteenth. Rather, he was

20:58

an AP site class on time

21:00

and stayed until it ended.

21:14

So school ends at two fifteen PM with a

21:16

final At this point, there are

21:18

multiple contenders for the last witness to see

21:20

he alive. Ayesha

21:23

and Becky both reports seeing a nine in hei

21:25

pretty center for school ended at about two

21:27

twenty. And I used to testify the trial that

21:29

she saw the two talking. Becky

21:31

had two versions. One in

21:33

her police statement, She says she sees

21:35

a nine in hay walk me in opposite directions

21:38

and he says to A90I

21:40

can't give you a ride. I have something

21:42

else to do. And then Don says,

21:45

oh, that's okay. I'll just ask

21:47

someone else.

21:48

At trial, defense counsel called Becky as

21:50

a defense witness and asked for

21:53

a Again, she recalled seeing hei at about

21:55

two twenty PM. She's walking

21:57

to the door that leads to her car, and according

21:59

to Becky, hei says

21:59

to her, I have to leave

22:02

right away. there's somewhere I need to

22:04

be. Doesn't say where the somewhere

22:06

is. To a trial, we don't

22:08

have a non mention in the conversation. It's

22:11

tough to say whether this was an oversight or

22:13

some type of decision it was made by defense

22:15

counsel. It's also tough to say whether

22:17

Becky herself decided to leave it none out

22:19

of the conversation. whether it was

22:21

just a matter of the way she was

22:23

questioned, because it's entirely possible that

22:25

both things happen. Becky heard

22:27

Heitel Adnan, she couldn't give him a ride. also

22:29

told her that she had somewhere else to

22:32

be.

22:36

So

22:37

after Becky

22:40

sees, hey,

22:40

walk down the hallway towards a

22:42

car. According to

22:43

the state, Hague apparently gets in a car and

22:46

then dries around to the front parking

22:47

lot where and as Butler sees

22:50

her. After school,

22:52

Annette sets up a concession stand outside

22:54

the gym area where students can buy

22:56

snacks and drinks. And in

22:58

all of it as a statements, she

23:00

says that she saw hay at this time.

23:03

However, the details of

23:05

what happened change during each version

23:07

of the story that Ines has

23:08

given. In

23:10

Ines'

23:11

very first statement to the

23:13

police, said

23:14

that he had been upset that day because her

23:16

mother and her were fighting.

23:18

She wanted to

23:18

call her dad in

23:19

California. He said, Inez

23:23

was also clear that he was not

23:25

going to a wrestling match that

23:27

day. In

23:30

Vanessa's second statement to the police, given

23:33

about a month later, she

23:35

says that she saw hay that day at school at

23:37

about two thirty PM. and

23:39

that was when Hay pulled up in the circle, left

23:41

her car

23:41

running, and ran up to the concession

23:44

stand. Grab a snack, throw some money

23:46

in the box, and then left

23:48

again.

23:48

In this version

23:50

of Vanessa's story, he was intending

23:52

to go on to work that day, lens

23:54

crafters. And

23:56

in fact, we know that she was scheduled to

23:58

work that evening from six PM to

23:59

ten PM. But he

24:01

didn't show up and she didn't call

24:04

in. and that's

24:04

the first time that he had never been a no

24:06

show at work.

24:08

At the first

24:10

trial, Andessa's story changes

24:13

once again. She says again that she

24:15

saw hey pull up to the concession stand,

24:17

but this time she says it happened at about

24:19

two

24:19

fifteen to two twenty.

24:22

She

24:22

also testifies in the first trial that Hay

24:24

did not pay for Snacks, but that that

24:26

was okay because and as new, that

24:28

Hay would be back again by three

24:30

forty five. in

24:32

order to catch a bus to wrestling match.

24:35

According

24:35

to Inez, the Woodlawn wrestling

24:37

team had a match at Chesapeake,

24:39

and, hey, we'll be going with the team to score it.

24:42

At the second

24:44

trial, however, and as the story changes

24:47

again, This time, she

24:50

says, like she did in the first trial,

24:52

that he came up to the concession

24:54

stand at about two fifteen, two

24:56

twenty. And

24:57

once again, Hay didn't pay for Snacks,

24:59

but that Inez reminded Hay to be back

25:01

to school by five PM for the wrestling

25:04

match, which according to an s, now starts at around

25:06

six thirty or seven thirty

25:08

pm. It's

25:10

not clear why an s is

25:12

story about when the match was taking place changed

25:14

between

25:14

the first trial and the second, or

25:17

why Inessa's police statements reflect that

25:19

she thought he was going to work? But

25:21

by the time of trial, she changed her story and

25:23

said that, hey, was instead going to the wrestling

25:26

match. And it's interesting that it is a story is

25:28

changing here, but by saying

25:30

that, hey, pulled up at about two fifteen

25:32

to two twenty? The

25:33

jury never heard what we got to hear

25:35

at cereal about the twenty one minute drive

25:37

test

25:37

that Sarakanek did.

25:39

If

25:46

you recall, In the route talk

25:48

episode of cereal, Sara and Dana

25:50

are retracing Hays route to try to determine whether

25:52

the state's theory of the case makes sense.

25:55

whether he could have been killed by two thirty six

25:57

PM when according to the state and

25:59

none then made a phone

25:59

call to Jay. The first thing to

26:02

notice that in the serial episode

26:04

actually, They don't finish the route by two thirty

26:06

six. It's

26:07

actually around two thirty seven or two thirty

26:09

eight, and they claim that it's a minute or two,

26:11

so therefore the

26:13

test passed. They think that maybe they could been a little more efficient,

26:15

but yeah, when they run the test, it

26:17

doesn't work.

26:19

When Sarah and Dana run

26:21

the test, they are stuck behind

26:23

the bus loop before they can even get

26:25

to where the concession stand is.

26:27

The bus is clear at about two twenty six

26:29

PM, which is when they go to the

26:31

concession And with that, they

26:33

don't make it within the state's time

26:34

frame. Now in her

26:37

second statement, I know as had said to the

26:39

officers, I saw hey, jump out of

26:40

her car at two couldn't have been

26:42

closer

26:42

to two fifteen because the bus loop

26:45

had to clear first. That bus

26:47

loop clears at two twenty

26:49

five. And the cops asked her,

26:51

could it have been closer to two fifteen?

26:53

But she said no, it couldn't have been

26:55

because the buses don't clear until

26:57

later.

26:59

And

27:00

yet, INES went on to testify a trial that

27:02

HAY came up to the concession stand between two

27:04

fifteen and two twenty, which

27:06

is an odd change from her police statement and it makes no sense

27:08

given what we know about when the bus

27:10

lube clears, both in nineteen ninety

27:13

nine and then in two thousand fourteen

27:15

when we had Sarah and Dana conduct

27:17

their drive test.

27:19

But the change

27:21

in our testimony is not odd and it makes

27:23

complete sense if you know that for the

27:25

state's theory to work, hey, could not

27:27

have been at school closer to two thirty because

27:30

the two thirty six PM come and get me

27:32

call couldn't work then.

27:34

It could only work and even then barely if

27:36

I nes had seen hay closer to two

27:38

fifteen PM. So

27:41

That was state's theory of

27:42

the case that Hayla's School around two

27:44

fifteen PM, went straight to the

27:46

concession stand and was somehow intercepted

27:49

and killed by Adnan. at two thirty

27:51

six PM in the Best Buy parking lot, except all

27:53

of that

27:54

got a bit blown up when

27:55

we heard from summer in cereal.

28:15

Now

28:18

summer was also a student at Woodland

28:20

High School. And as she was listening

28:23

to Suriel, she realized that she had some

28:25

information that nobody knew about. So she

28:27

contacted Sarakane ing, and she told

28:29

her that she distinctly remembered seeing,

28:31

school around three PM on January

28:33

thirteenth nineteen ninety nine. She

28:35

says she remembers this day because she was going to

28:37

be scoring a wrestling match that evening

28:39

with HAY. new to it, so she

28:41

needed to hit a b there, but hit didn't show

28:43

up. So summer was a little bit

28:45

upset, but hit didn't show up. And for that

28:47

reason, the memory is pretty distinct for

28:49

summer. It strains that summer says that

28:51

she's never been contacted. According to

28:53

her, she basically gets hit and change

28:55

her plans. It is probably not going to

28:57

that wrestling match and she convinces her to

28:59

go So it's odd that somehow she didn't

29:02

talk to the cops. No one was made

29:04

aware of her that for some reason this

29:06

person who's the cooma and during

29:08

the team isn't interviewed by

29:10

anyone back in nineteen ninety nine. And she

29:12

apparently never mentioned it to any of her friends

29:14

or to any of his friends. Assuming

29:16

you're a high school student and you have a friend,

29:18

she's the co manager in a sports

29:20

team with you. You talk to her and you know,

29:22

basically get her to change her plans, and

29:24

then she disappears in terms of dead. What do you think

29:26

you would do when you find this out? Tell

29:28

someone it seems like. So it's hard to see

29:30

how this story didn't come out before.

29:33

time of the investigation or the

29:35

trial.

29:36

But let's

29:37

my

29:38

play devil's advocate here for a

29:41

minute. It's strange that in a that

29:43

takes place in a

29:43

high school, a pretty large high school

29:46

even. We're left with very limited

29:48

statements from witnesses. In

29:50

fact, we have police statements from just a handful of

29:52

students actually. Becky, Debbie,

29:55

Ayesha, and

29:56

Stephanie. but

29:58

there were many more students in the

29:59

magnet program. And even with the

30:02

wrestling match, you'd think the

30:04

wrestling team must have had a coach. Right?

30:06

an adult coach. And that coach would

30:09

have known whether or not he was going to be

30:11

scoring that day and

30:12

whether she showed up or not.

30:15

The real dearth of statements taken by the police

30:17

is troubling and may explain why

30:19

summer and many

30:20

others were overlooked. The

30:22

thing is the police never talked to anyone in school who

30:25

wasn't in some way related to their case against a

30:27

nun. They didn't

30:29

talk to his teachers other than the

30:31

show. They didn't talk to the wrestling

30:33

coach. They didn't talk to the wrestlers.

30:36

Everyone

30:36

they spoke to was either a teacher of a nuns

30:38

and also sometimes happened to

30:40

also be a teacher of Hays are one of the non friends,

30:43

which is why we can't even

30:44

be sure of Hays was in our third period class that

30:46

day. They never talked to anyone

30:47

in that class.

30:49

There isn't

30:51

even any

30:51

attempt by the police to determine that this

30:54

wrestling match, which comes up repeatedly as part of

30:56

Hay's evening plans, even

30:58

took place on January thirteenth.

31:01

But hay going to this wrestling match is

31:03

still part of the state's theory,

31:04

though remember that hay was also

31:07

scheduled work that evening. And no

31:09

explanations ever offered to explain this

31:11

contradiction. Now, this

31:14

wrestling match has come up a lot

31:16

of times. but the weird thing is the witnesses

31:18

always seem to give slightly different stories.

31:20

We have heard lots of versions about

31:22

when it started. and two

31:24

different schools for where it was supposed to take place.

31:27

Summer said it was a Randoll's town, but

31:29

in his Butler said it was a Chesapeake

31:31

High. None of the

31:33

witnesses talking about the wrestling match can

31:35

seem to agree exactly what the match

31:37

was supposed to be. So

31:39

I started looking into it And after reviewing

31:41

some old newspaper clippings at the Baltimore

31:43

Public Library, it turned out

31:45

that there wasn't a

31:47

wrestling match that evening.

31:49

That's right.

31:49

The wrestling match, which has been part of

31:51

the state's narrative since nineteen ninety

31:54

nine, and was even accepted as

31:56

gospel and cereal, actually never

31:58

happened. There was no wrestling match

31:59

on January thirteenth nineteen ninety

32:02

nine. I started

32:03

off just trying to figure out if

32:05

the match was against Chesapeake, like an s said

32:07

or against rattles town like Somerset.

32:10

But after looking into it, it

32:13

was neither. There was no match for

32:15

Woodlawn.

32:15

According to the newspaper records, Woodlawn

32:18

had actually played Randall's town the week before

32:20

on January fifth. And

32:22

on January thirteenth, Randalls Town

32:23

did have a wrestling match, but it

32:25

was against a different team entirely.

32:28

So

32:28

whatever else might have happened on January

32:31

thirteenth, Woodlawn did not play Randalls

32:33

Town. But

32:34

let's go back to January fifth

32:36

now. This is the big one.

32:38

This is pretty huge. We have a match

32:40

against Randalls Town. So why is this such

32:42

a big deal? Because

32:44

of the Don note.

32:49

Remember, there was a note found in

32:52

to Don. The

32:54

police, the prosecution, they

32:56

believe that this is a note that HAY

32:58

planned to give Don on January

32:59

thirteen. and

33:01

it's

33:01

hugely important because it ties

33:03

everything together

33:04

that we've been talking about. The

33:06

note

33:06

mentions both the wrestling match and

33:09

the TV

33:10

interview. The

33:12

note is

33:14

in Hays handwriting, and here

33:16

is what it says. hey, cutie.

33:18

Sorry I couldn't stay. I have to go to a

33:20

wrestling match at Randalstone High, but I

33:23

promise to page you as soon as I get

33:25

home. Okay? till

33:27

then, take care and drive

33:28

safely. Always, hey. PS,

33:31

the interview went well, and I promise to tape

33:33

it so

33:33

you can see me as many and as often as

33:35

you want.

33:35

While now that

33:39

we know that Randoll Stone played Woodland

33:41

on January fifth, we also know

33:43

that note was written on January fifth as

33:46

well. What seems

33:47

to have happened is that he wrote this note and planned

33:49

to leave it with Don, who

33:50

was working at Owens Mills Mall

33:53

that day. but

33:53

it seems from Hays credit card records,

33:56

which show purchases at Owens Mills Mall

33:58

during the same time the wrestling match was

33:59

going on, but

34:01

she never made it to the match. She went

34:03

to leave a note and instead perhaps

34:05

she saw Don and ended up staying there

34:07

with him, and she never gave him the

34:09

note at all.

34:10

which is why it was still

34:12

in her car when the police found it. And it also explains why

34:14

summer was

34:14

a little bit upset because she got

34:17

stood up. On January fifth,

34:20

not

34:20

January thirteenth. And the reason

34:23

none of the students recalled

34:24

seeing hey leave class to go film

34:26

on January thirteenth was because it

34:29

didn't happen on thirteenth. It happened on January

34:32

fifth. All of this completely

34:33

undermines the

34:34

state's timeline. Iness was not

34:36

the last person to say, hey, alive.

34:40

She's thinking of the wrong

34:42

day. It also means summer is

34:44

not the last person to say hey

34:46

alive. And

34:46

why is that important? important

34:49

because like a lot of people, when we listen to

34:51

cereal, we believed summer.

34:57

Summer thirtieth say, hey, you know, around two forty five,

34:59

two fifty five or so at school, which

35:02

takes us back to Asia McLean, who says

35:04

she saw a none of the

35:06

library in to about two

35:08

forty PM. So while Asia is

35:10

a great alibi witness from a legal

35:12

perspective, because she destroys the state's timeline

35:14

of trial, She's pretty meaningless

35:16

from a factual perspective because of

35:18

summer, who says she saw hay well

35:20

after two forty pm.

35:22

Now the signal against here is, if we were moving Des in summer from the

35:24

timeline, we're back to Becky being the last

35:26

person to see Hey, at around two twenty

35:28

PM, as Hey is about to

35:30

leave school. because he has something

35:32

else to do and somewhere else to

35:34

be. Which means that if Asia did see it

35:36

not at the library up until two

35:38

forty pm, She's not just a

35:40

legal alibi witness. She's a factual

35:42

alibi witness who can prove it non's

35:44

innocence. But then

35:46

there's Debbie. Debbie, as we

35:48

discussed last episode, was a friend of both that

35:50

Don and Hay, and she gave a couple of statements

35:52

to police. In her first

35:54

statement at the end of January, She says she saw

35:56

hei at about three PM that she was

35:58

on her way to see Don at the

36:00

mall. If you look at all the news reports, the time

36:02

of his disappearance Even at the time that

36:04

Nana was arrested, she is

36:06

presented as the last person Sejea alive

36:08

at three o'clock as she's

36:10

leaving Woodbine. Then later, we have Debbie giving a second statement

36:12

this time in March.

36:14

This is the statement where she says she saw

36:16

Adnan at about two forty five on his way

36:18

to track

36:20

practice. In that second statement though, when she said

36:22

she saw hay between two forty five and

36:24

three fifteen PM, she said they

36:28

weren't alone. Instead according to Debbie, there was the third person in

36:30

the conversation. This was a

36:32

person whose name is written as DeCara

36:34

in the

36:36

transcript. but that's not a real name. According to Debbie,

36:38

take care of s k for a ride.

36:40

And according to Debbie, hate turned her

36:42

down saying, I can't give you a ride

36:44

because I have no time.

36:46

I have to pick up my cousin at school. And

36:48

also according to Debbie, this is the

36:50

only person that you recall asking him here

36:52

for a ride on January thirteenth.

36:55

another time that Dicara comes up too.

36:58

This is after his body has been

37:00

found. There's a crisis intervention team that sent to

37:02

this school, And Deborah calls

37:04

Debbie herself, Becky, Ayesha,

37:06

Takeda, and Takeda's sister going

37:08

to talk together to the crisis intervention

37:12

team. And in fact, there's a second teacher who's interviewed at the school,

37:14

and she also remembers the same group of students

37:16

going together to the crisis intervention

37:20

team. So we

37:21

have Debbie, Ayusha, Becky, all key people in the

37:23

case. They are interviewed,

37:24

they testify a trial, and

37:27

then we have

37:29

Takeda. The

37:31

person who, asked Kaye for a ride just

37:33

before she disappears. And as far as

37:35

we can tell,

37:37

she's never contacted.

37:40

Not by the prosecution, not by the defense,

37:42

not by anyone. Here's the exchange

37:44

between Debbie and the police, though, about

37:47

taken care of. Detective McGill

37:49

very asked, and did she indicate that she was going

37:51

to give anybody a ride referring to

37:53

hey, and

37:55

Debbie responds No.

37:57

Somebody I think De Cara

37:59

had asked

37:59

and, like, she said she couldn't because she had to pick

38:02

up her cousin after school, and she had

38:04

to meet them around

38:04

three o'clock, so she didn't have

38:07

time. but no

38:07

one else at our member.

38:09

Take care

38:09

first appears on page thirty one of the

38:12

transcript of Debbie's

38:14

police interview. But the documents that include that interview from the defense

38:16

files, they end on page

38:18

thirty. In other words, a nonattorney,

38:20

Christina Gutierrez,

38:22

Didn't have the part of Debbie's interview that mentioned to Carrie asking, hey,

38:24

for a ride. And Gutierrez also

38:26

never had

38:27

the audio for it.

38:30

But if Gutierrez

38:30

had known about this

38:31

and then had just repeated what Debbie

38:34

said about what had happened on the thirteenth

38:36

of trial, That could

38:37

have meant an

38:40

exoneration. And then there's

38:41

this. If

38:42

something came up that day and caused

38:44

hate to change her mind and say that she had somewhere else to be,

38:46

something else to do. The most likely

38:49

way that would

38:49

have happened is if someone

38:51

had contacted her, which means

38:53

someone was certainly that someone would have

38:55

paged her.

38:56

That's right. Hape didn't

38:58

have a cell phone, but

39:00

she did have a pager. And

39:03

we didn't ever

39:04

get HAY's pager records by the

39:06

way. Either the police never tried to pull them,

39:08

which would be shocking negligence in a

39:11

missing person's case, only later turned into a murder, or

39:13

they did get them

39:14

and they didn't disclose them to the defense.

39:17

And Hays

39:18

pager at self was in fact never

39:20

recovered with the evidence. It wasn't with

39:22

her body or in the car. If her

39:24

page had ever

39:25

been found, we might know who actually

39:27

had paged her that day.

39:30

The implication

39:30

then is that the pager was disposed

39:32

of by the killer because it could have

39:34

shown that they had paged her before she

39:38

disappeared. What's

39:39

also interesting though is that Jay never mentions a

39:41

pager either. He doesn't

39:42

mention it being in his

39:44

car and doesn't mention a non disposing

39:47

of it. he

39:49

doesn't mention anything about it at

39:50

all.

39:58

So what we

40:01

know now is

40:03

that Hays Day looked a lot

40:05

different than we thought

40:08

it did. then the state presented it a trial and even different

40:10

than it was presented on

40:12

cereal. Though she had school as everyone says,

40:14

she certainly wasn't doing any filming for

40:16

Channel thirty

40:18

six. on January thirteenth. That filming took place the same

40:20

day she wrote the note to Don, which also

40:22

happened to be the same day she had a match

40:25

against Randalls town. None of that happened on January thirteenth.

40:27

It all happened on January fifth. A couple of

40:30

other things that we know that we're pretty certain

40:32

about is that at some point during

40:34

the day, A non asked

40:36

hey for a ride after school. She

40:38

initially said yes, and then later in front

40:40

of a couple different people, she said, no, I

40:42

have somewhere to go. I can't give you

40:44

that ride. that takes

40:46

us to Debbie and Takeda.

40:48

While we've heard

40:48

a lot from Debbie,

40:49

police statements, her testimony in two

40:51

different trials, we've never

40:53

heard from Takeda. No

40:55

one ever contacted her back then, not

40:57

the police, not the prosecution, not

41:00

defense counsel. But she

41:01

may have been one of the last people

41:03

to see Hayman Lee alive. So where do we

41:05

go from here? We track the movements of

41:07

the state's star witness,

41:08

Jay Wilde. Next time,

41:12

un undisclosed.

41:22

We at

41:24

undisclosed don't have

41:26

the words to express our thanks to

41:28

all of you, our listeners.

41:30

for all of your support in these past five special thanks from

41:33

Adnan, myself, and the rest of his loved

41:35

ones for the support you continue to

41:38

show him. Thank you

41:40

to the always masterful Rebecca

41:42

LaVoy for turning us into prose, to

41:44

meet O'Thalhan for keeping this

41:46

machine running. to Baluki for our logo and to Patrick Cortez

41:48

for our theme music. And I want

41:50

to personally thank as we

41:52

continue this fight my

41:54

incredible colleagues Susan Simpson and Colin

41:56

Miller who have put in thousands of hours

41:58

of work on Adnan's case and who we

41:59

could not have ever come this

42:02

far without. Also, thank you

42:04

to the many people who've told his story over the

42:06

years, Sarah Koenig and Amy Berg

42:08

and their teams, and to the

42:10

lawyers who have stood by Adan. all of these

42:12

years, Chris Flor, Doug

42:14

Colbert, and Justin Brown. You

42:16

can find all of our episodes and

42:18

episode related documents on

42:20

our website WWW dot undisclosed dash

42:22

podcast dot com, and don't forget to follow

42:24

us on social media. You'll find us at

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43:03

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