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1:22

Oh, you bastard. Thanks

1:25

for joining us at the Crucible. Nice shot. After you, sir.

1:28

Lee-owey, Lee-owey, Lee-owey. This

1:30

week. Can you be quiet, please? I'm

1:32

trying to concentrate. See if I can get

1:34

this right. Sunderland.

1:37

Sunderland, yes. Burnley. Yes.

1:39

Some Belgian. Some Belgian team.

1:42

Northampton. We're very close as well this week to the 100,000

1:44

mark subscribers on YouTube, and

1:46

we're going to have a little competition. Anybody who

1:48

subscribes between this video

1:50

and the next, we're going to give a football shirt

1:52

away. A brand new football shirt. Crisp out the bag. And

1:56

we'll also give a football shirt away to one

1:59

of the subscribers. I've already subscribed. Yeah,

2:02

previous subscriber I'll also win a show. Of

2:05

your team and your size. Changing

2:08

lives again, aren't we? Our second

2:11

lot of siblings to be only

2:14

podcast. Can you name the first? Yes, the

2:17

Thornleys. Well done

2:19

John, cued us to you. Well done.

2:30

Thank you.

2:45

Funny enough, everyone's fun, the one song's right. The

2:48

best ever. I

2:50

started it. I

2:54

started every week now. From

2:58

my point of view it's true. It's

3:00

still a firm fan favourite, isn't it? It

3:02

is, I get sung all the time. Sometimes I

3:04

go to the wear games and I could be stood there

3:06

with a cat one and me caught watching that last season.

3:09

And I'm stood there and it's like lads

3:11

of 1920, younger, singing

3:13

the song and I'm stood right next to them. No idea. Somebody

3:18

mentioned the Nigeria. I can't remember

3:21

Steve telling it. A

3:25

friend of mine's in the forces and

3:28

some of his mates trained some of these guys in Nigeria,

3:30

these Nigerian special services and stuff

3:32

like that. So I believe there was some sort

3:34

of sky or some sort of event for

3:37

the Premier League and there was a mini bus turning

3:39

up in Nigerian

3:41

language. So they were turning up to do

3:44

some event anyway. I

3:47

think Jamie Carrige was in the Neville

3:49

Lampard and even Rio

3:52

Fernand was in the bus. Supposedly

3:54

they've turned up to this hotel, it's high

3:56

security. The barries are down, there's about

3:58

six guards. Nigerian

4:00

guards all were guns and rifles and

4:04

so they just said papers so they're all on the hand

4:06

the papers and then they're all looking in you know

4:08

checking checking the papers checking who

4:10

they are and so far and he just gives

4:12

the papers back and he just nods

4:15

to the guy to lift the barry up and

4:17

as they're going past the big guy guns, Leowie

4:21

Leowie Leowie! And Steve

4:23

was like fucking Nigeria! But

4:27

some of the British service guys were telling them

4:29

to do it so even in

4:31

Nigeria it gets sung so I'm pleased

4:33

about that.

4:36

Did you style an Ipswich? I did so would

4:41

you believe the story is I'd

4:44

been at Newcastle not as a

4:46

schoolboy but you know when the school

4:48

holidays turn up you invite you

4:50

to come and play so I went there

4:53

and the Ipswich Scouts saying is play center forward

4:56

because my Sunday team where all the scouts

4:58

used to come because we had some good players are

5:00

played right side and Clive Mendonca actually played

5:03

in in the middle so what the scout

5:05

only just saying is for the first time play center forward and

5:08

it just went kind of kind of bring you down and then we

5:10

went down I think I was 14 off

5:13

when I was 15 I was 15 and

5:15

he took a Lord of the Lads from Scotland in the northeast

5:18

and it was virtually like a north face south collection

5:21

of players and that was a huge yeah

5:24

yeah there's about 12 24 players

5:26

there and we just had a massive game and it

5:28

was just right up my street and I was signed

5:30

on from there from Ipswich and it was fantastic

5:33

again for Ipswich then at that time we're

5:35

a big concern. How

5:37

did you find moving away?

5:38

That is weird yeah couldn't

5:41

wait. Just go with him Steve.

5:43

Not so much Steve and then that was just

5:46

yeah I just found things

5:48

school and all that things a bit difficult and I just

5:51

I just wanted just wanted to get away and

5:53

and then live my life by me

5:56

as a young man. I just found everything

5:58

else really constructive. a constrictive

6:00

within where I was at the time. Yeah,

6:03

some mofes are lacking it. You said you wanted

6:05

to get away. You fucking did, didn't you? Yeah, I was 16

6:08

in three months.

6:09

Gee, some distance. Yeah,

6:12

yeah. But you know what, I really

6:14

loved it. The way they looked after you, which was great. You

6:17

went into digs. There was a lovely couple

6:19

that looked after us. I was by myself, you know,

6:21

but traveling in, I was only walking

6:23

distance into the ground, but the lads were great at

6:25

the time because there was a lot of lads from the north east. I

6:28

used to say this guy who, I don't know if he can mention

6:30

his name, he works obviously in special forces

6:32

and stuff like that. He was there at the time as

6:34

a wallpaper. Kept,

6:38

I've known him since I've been four years old. So

6:40

it was like the same in a few of the north east lads. So

6:42

it was a real good click of group

6:45

of lads that we, yeah,

6:48

that it was great to be there. Did you get a chance?

6:51

Should we, around the first time

6:53

or not like that? I was close, I mean,

6:55

it was tough the first year. First again, I was a ganglion,

6:57

you know, six foot two, you know, we had about 11

7:00

and a half stone wet through, but

7:02

within that year I grew, I was getting

7:05

bigger and stronger. And then I came back when I was just

7:07

obviously 17 and I was banging my goals

7:09

in. I mean, really, really was playing

7:11

well.

7:12

And then I think was around

7:14

about halfway through that season, Bobby

7:17

Ferguson came as he was managed at the time. I

7:19

was, we're playing Watford in the reserves. And

7:22

I think I've scored about nine or 10 goals already.

7:24

And he just said, keep

7:26

your cell right. He said, you'll

7:29

be in the first time on Saturday we'll play in Bradford away.

7:32

And I went up with a ball with, I think

7:34

I scored, I chased the ball through

7:36

when it was, I said, Tim Sherwood, the goalkeeper. We

7:38

went together and he landed and brought me a hanger.

7:41

Oh no. Yeah,

7:42

and I, as I come off, it

7:44

was just before, it was just before off time

7:47

I come off. And I was just sat in the training room

7:49

and the physio went to Bobby, went, I

7:51

think he's brought his hanger. And he went, you're silicone.

7:54

I walked away.

7:55

That was it.

7:56

So I had all this time off and tried to get

7:58

back, but it's, it's then typically,

7:59

gets the sack. I just

8:02

signed pro contract and the freaking game was 5-4

8:04

as well at Bradford. I had a definitely

8:07

big under score. I've changed

8:09

for your football and I was telling about it. It's

8:11

hard. Sometimes you get

8:14

the brakes literally and sometimes you don't. How long did

8:16

you sign? You got first contract.

8:18

The first contract was till the end of the season. I

8:21

would just get myself fit and he gave us one more

8:23

year. But then he

8:25

got sacked and then John Duncan came in. I'd

8:27

done me a couple of times as well even

8:30

pre-season. I was gone through

8:32

a few bad injuries and again

8:35

when I got to 19 I was told I'd

8:37

never play professional football again.

8:40

Really? Yeah. That damaged me.

8:42

They took all the cartilages out and it just says you're

8:44

done.

8:47

What did you do at that stage? Did you

8:50

think that's it? I am done. Yeah.

8:54

Joe, you're just coming through. Coming over the operation.

8:56

I'm in the hospital bed and I'm just waking up

8:58

and this is what the surgeon tells us. At

9:01

first I'm like, no, I've dreamt that

9:03

man. That cannot be right. Second opinion.

9:06

Yeah. But the physio coming and

9:08

you're doing well. I'll be able to say what you know but you'll

9:10

have to... Did

9:12

you enjoy being on the

9:14

football crack and everything? You thought I wanted

9:17

to do this for the next 15 years? Well,

9:19

that was my life. I've never done and

9:22

thought about doing anything else in my

9:24

life. I've obviously come home. Who

9:27

would you believe? He's like, you leave the payer for

9:29

you. Pay you up. So, 1500 quid

9:32

I got. 1500 quid. Oh,

9:35

who's service? Are you working? Thanks very much.

9:37

Oh. Yeah. And when I did get

9:39

back to football I had to pay the fucking payer for you back. Did

9:42

you? No. I wanted the money back. The retirement.

9:44

No, the retirement thing. I

9:46

thought, right, what can I do? So, I thought, well, I

9:49

knew people that were in the police force and so I just thought

9:52

I'll just do that. So, I was about to go to

9:54

an interview for

9:56

the police force and I got a call one

9:58

evening to say do you fancy... you come into Belgium,

10:02

having a trial over there. And I says, oh

10:04

well, I'll have to think about it. He says, when you go

10:06

in, he went, I'll pick you up at six o'clock in the morning. So

10:10

I went, I said, I'll go. I was definitely

10:12

three years. But again, it was part time. So I was

10:14

able to do the part time stuff, manage

10:16

the knee. But yeah, that's what

10:18

I ended up doing. And I ended up getting back into it. Where

10:20

did you do all your rehab and that from your? Didn't, just

10:22

didn't myself. My knee

10:25

didn't actually heal properly

10:28

as well. So it was, I was half bent. So

10:30

I never did the stretches, which again,

10:32

the fact that there's, when I eventually got back to

10:35

the football, it was, the knee cut was always

10:37

running, but they were up and so I played the rest of me

10:39

and was only fine for some and with this, with this really,

10:41

really bad. I swear to somebody, you know,

10:43

I can't. Your mum's,

10:45

the phone call, your mum's answered it. For

10:48

you, and you

10:49

trying to come to Belgium?

10:51

Play football, I just says, yeah.

10:53

Take us over six o'clock in the morning. Who was it?

10:56

Who called you? It was a local scout called

10:58

Gordon Ellis. Not Gordon Ellis, it

11:00

was Ellis anyway. I can't remember his first name. He

11:03

played over there in Belgium. And

11:05

I went over with a local Danny Olsen. I'd

11:08

started to get fit again a little

11:10

bit when I played a couple of games with Gates. I

11:12

think I played six games, it's called six

11:14

goals. And I was promised like a hundred

11:17

quid. I went to camp, but you

11:19

know, there wasn't again no money. I was last

11:21

in, went around, you know, come in later

11:23

in the door, open the door. There's a fiver.

11:27

I was just terrible. So again, so once I got the

11:29

opportunity, I'd go in. Thing

11:32

is, they don't, I'm guessing they don't say, give

11:35

somebody a shit sandwich like that without really

11:37

thinking that you're not gonna play football again. So

11:40

how did you, how

11:42

did you prove them wrong? That your knee ended

11:45

up being all right to even play part-time? Well,

11:47

it wasn't because I've got knee replacement.

11:50

That's a problem I shouldn't have cleared. I'm

11:53

suffering the facts now. But I just, I

11:55

just took tablets for like 15

11:57

years. Fuck me. So

12:00

I was on painkillers and the bolt

12:02

rolled, like ibuprofen

12:04

tablets, fairly high power horns and

12:07

drink generally. I'm trying

12:09

to ask, like, off the phone, Mum,

12:12

I'm on my way to Belgium at morning for

12:14

six weeks. Well, first of all,

12:16

it was a trial.

12:18

And then I came back in the office as a contract with Danny

12:20

Olsen. And then I said, brilliant. So

12:22

I came back, I was getting everything sorted. And

12:25

then Danny rang us and said, I'm not going. And

12:27

we were meant to be going to the CMT. So

12:30

it was just like, what do I do? Do you want

12:32

to go myself? I was just saying, by the time, I'm

12:34

just on Monday, 19 as well. And I

12:36

thought, two, three months,

12:38

let's do it.

12:39

So I did it. And again,

12:41

played 11 score, 11 Scott, and the 11 consecutive

12:43

games in the league's second

12:45

division in Belgium. And then the sign

12:47

is on it to your contract. And were you

12:49

weird? Did you have more fire in your belly when

12:52

you went over there? Because you thought, well, I'm

12:54

just proving people wrong. I've got nothing to prove

12:56

anymore. It's just something I wanted to do. I

12:59

was mad to play football. I was given another chance.

13:01

And be it, I was their

13:04

professional, the only professional, because they were

13:06

given as a full-time contract. And

13:08

the other lads were part-time. But it was just

13:10

living that life again as

13:12

a footballer. Nice beer, that Belgium

13:15

beer as well, wasn't it? Well, I was down the south and it was

13:17

Jupeler. I'll tell you what, I was... That

13:19

nice drop. Well, I would be just walking

13:22

down the streets and they'd be like, Grande Anglais, Vianosie.

13:24

And I'd be walking in, there'd be beers. I'd be like, all

13:27

day. All

13:29

day, you know. It was quite an ancient

13:32

spaghetti bolognaise for some reason. Did

13:35

you make mates and stuff over there? Lord's Eye,

13:37

we went back over. Another lad

13:39

signed later on, Paul Watson, who

13:41

was at Newcastle. And

13:43

we went over for like a 25th anniversary because

13:46

we got promoted to their second level. And

13:50

the team itself was virtually a village

13:52

team. It's just like your village team

13:54

getting into, I suppose, Luton getting into the

13:56

Premier League, it

13:58

was like unbelievable.

13:59

that happened. So we went over,

14:02

we met the president again and some of the ex- players

14:04

and we just had two three days absolutely

14:07

just on the bender really was brilliant. Are

14:09

you still a striker? Yeah. I

14:11

was a striker of Belgium I that

14:15

was yeah I finished top goalscore

14:17

in the league two years run. Thanks to the

14:19

Fair Play Exchange for sponsoring the

14:21

series thus far, celebratory

14:24

mood in the house. Thanks to Johnny P.

14:26

This one man this lad's out of this. Yeah you

14:28

can buy some of the order, were you winning? Is it

14:31

bad? Getting in

14:33

there with excellent pick. Thank you

14:35

Manchester City. We've

14:37

got new back this week and this

14:40

is tighter I think with

14:42

our 50-50 bets between everyone. I

14:45

don't think a lot of them have been 50-50 if I'm honest

14:47

but. No but this is, that's what I'm saying, this

14:49

is a 50-50. Statistically what we've got.

14:51

Yeah, staying. Here we go there's gonna be under 30.5

14:54

goals

14:54

in the Premier League. So

14:57

we want under 30.5. We want under 30.5 goals.

15:02

Average this season has been 30.33. Well

15:06

I couldn't be any tighter could I Jon?

15:08

That is

15:09

as tight as Mattie.

15:12

He's been betting against us. I know he's clearly

15:15

not. Mattie's flying by the way, whatever

15:17

we say he knows it's not gonna

15:19

happen. So if you sign

15:21

up to the Fair Play Exchange, deposit

15:24

your fiver, if

15:25

you sign up with a cold cash then you get

15:27

sent the under the cash bets and this week we're saying

15:29

there's gonna be under 30.5

15:32

goals. If there's more than 30.5 goals then. You

15:35

win. You're in the money. Money's in

15:38

the account. Good bet. A couple

15:40

of results and you're halfway there aren't you?

15:42

Yeah, get involved, download the app and

15:44

then you can go against us if we can. Less

15:46

than 30.5 goals.

15:48

So it's not like a bookies

15:50

is it?

15:51

So we're betting against each other. Yeah.

15:53

No high street bookie.

15:55

Taking your money. No commission. No

15:57

slices being cut off. Exactly. No,

16:00

it's not whatsoever. It's just us

16:02

against you. Just betting against your mates.

16:05

Bit of crap. Bet during the golf,

16:08

bit of a game of FIFA. What else do you do? Anything

16:10

really, can't you? First one on a night out. Yeah,

16:13

you can eat the most pancakes. You can

16:15

eat many pancakes. No. But please,

16:18

do gamble responsibly and you've got

16:20

to be over 18 to take part. There should be over 18.

16:22

Link's in the description. And use that code COSH

16:24

and then every week you'll get sent the COSH

16:26

bet. This week I think we've got a chance.

16:28

The COSH bet.

16:37

Fitting with the overlaps, I suppose.

16:39

What do you got to go for the language? A lot

16:41

of them was able to speak English. So I

16:44

got away with that. And then a lot of the times

16:46

I could get by with football French,

16:50

rather than your normal conversation and stuff. Like

16:52

kick the ball, cross the ball, all that sort of stuff.

16:55

I mean, I was getting bucks sometimes for shouting

16:57

too loud. And one of the times

16:59

the referee pulled the chairman

17:02

and said, the Grand Anglais, he says, he says,

17:05

fuck too much.

17:07

I think I'm crazy. I was

17:09

still young, but I wanted to score. You

17:11

know, if one of the wingers didn't

17:13

cross the ball, I was in guard nuts with him.

17:15

So, yeah, it was. But again,

17:17

I suppose, yeah, I suppose I find the belly to

17:19

say, look, I want another

17:22

chance.

17:22

Did you fit in with the culture and everything in

17:25

Belgium? Like for life? I'm going

17:27

to get the ball in it. What

17:29

is Belgium culture? Black Jim Keeler?

17:32

More relaxed, is it? What do you say? Or

17:34

is it just like for like? I mean,

17:38

again, the issue I had when I went

17:40

as well for the first time, it was jumping.

17:43

The streets were full of people

17:45

drinking and so forth and so forth. So when I got

17:47

back, I dumped my cases. I went straight out

17:49

thinking, absolute ghost town. And

17:51

I was asking people, they went, oh, it was the Festival

17:54

of Waller. This is a downer. It happens for

17:56

three days, once a year.

18:00

He brought you the first one! Great job.

18:02

It will get a little sucky, mate. I was just like, I had chin

18:05

on my chest. Just found a bar

18:07

and I had a couple of drinks. That was

18:09

it. Did anybody come and watch it from over

18:11

here? No, no. I

18:13

got sacked over there, so this is a topic. So

18:16

I, again,

18:19

through success, that took out the trainer

18:22

that we had, it was a really

18:24

nice fella, and they brought this other guy in, who brought his

18:26

own players. And all of a sudden, the dynamics

18:28

of the team changed. And he brought this young

18:31

lad in from Germany. And

18:34

he played him centre-forward. And

18:36

he dropped me. I wasn't happy about

18:39

it, so I went to the chairman at the

18:41

time, and I just said, look, I'm

18:43

not happy. You can imagine I'm not happy.

18:45

So can I go home? And he went, well,

18:48

you'll have to pay for it yourself, because at the time, he used to get four

18:50

trips back to the north-east. Nice

18:53

flight out of Brussels to Newcastle. He

18:55

says, you'll have to pay for it yourself. And I says, that's

18:57

fine, I'll do that. So we then, on

18:59

we due back. And I

19:01

was getting decent money when I was

19:04

due back.

19:05

Snow hit.

19:07

Things were delayed, and I came back two

19:09

days late. And on the apartment that they

19:11

were paying for us as well, there was just a

19:13

letter on saying, you've breached your contract.

19:16

You're saying?

19:17

He obviously went back 25 years later, and

19:20

it was the manager saying, we didn't need

19:22

him. Just, we'll get rid of him. I've got such

19:24

and such. You give him an excuse, really. So I just had to pack

19:26

my bags and come home again. How did you fail? I

19:29

was devastated. I had an apartment. I

19:32

was getting decent money. And that

19:34

was it. So I was, again, back

19:36

on the door.

19:37

But were you not getting any interest

19:39

from

19:40

higher Belgium teams? Yeah, well, I

19:42

went to one. But again,

19:44

towards the end of one season, I had this pelvis

19:47

problem. Again, the injuries.

19:49

I had this pelvis problem which affected us, and I

19:51

just wasn't right when I went for a trial there.

19:54

I was still trying to sell us. But

19:57

I just ended up coming home.

19:59

I just got a job working for BT

20:02

and I was in the mail room

20:04

at BT and then trying to sign

20:06

up for a couple of clubs but

20:09

before the bossman, they kept me registration. Couldn't

20:11

play for anybody. Refuses.

20:15

I won't be going back for the 25th anniversary.

20:17

I will be tuning someday. Well,

20:20

that was the way. I was part of the time. That's

20:22

what it was. They wanted money. They

20:24

wanted money for us. They thought obviously that was worth

20:26

a few quid. So this just wasn't until

20:29

somebody buys you, keeping your registration.

20:32

So not Piena's either, no? So

20:35

I was working for BT. They had a fax machine.

20:37

I kept faxing the FEA and the PAFEA every

20:40

day to see them come and get me release me

20:42

forms, release me forms. And eventually it was agreed

20:44

after one day less than

20:47

a year that I could play non-contract

20:49

football. So again, just for your non-league stuff.

20:52

So thank you. So you couldn't even play for the league?

20:54

No, not only for the dog. I couldn't play for anybody. I couldn't

20:56

play for anybody. So I had nearly a year out. But

21:02

in Dyneside maybe it was good for me. So I came

21:04

back. I signed for Saeum Redstone, which is a

21:06

local team.

21:07

I had a few of me metal players just to get back

21:09

into it. And then that season

21:11

I signed on half a day of money for

21:14

Bishop Auckland. And I was playing on a Sunday.

21:18

So I was earning, again, an okay

21:20

money. And I started scoring goals. And

21:22

then

21:22

Terry Butcher took over Sunderland.

21:24

I knew Terry and the backroom

21:26

stuff, Bobby Ferguson. And I just thought, I'll

21:29

get a chance here, you know, if I can. So the

21:31

scout John Cluth has came to watch us against

21:34

Durham, sitting in the FA Cup, scored a hat-trick. Then

21:37

Ipswich was wanting us back. So

21:40

first of all, I was Ipswich first. I

21:43

played against Charlton. I was playing up front

21:45

with Goddard.

21:47

And scored the best goal I've ever scored in my

21:49

life. Absolute worldly. Top

21:51

corner from about 25, 30 yards out. They

21:54

wanted to sign us. And they said, look, John

21:56

Lyall hasn't watched us. So will you come

21:58

to China? I said, look. Can

22:00

I please first go back to the North

22:02

East and Sunland because I've been invited to

22:05

play

22:05

and it's someone versus Newcastle at Roger Park

22:08

and I just want to play at it and they went that's

22:10

absolutely no problem at all You can do that. So

22:13

I went up there scored within two minutes

22:16

and then come off at half-time and Terry butcher offers

22:18

a contract

22:19

For me Lee, this is this is probably the biggest

22:22

roller coaster. Yeah Korea up

22:24

with it up to now Yeah, I signed

22:26

for Sunland. He signed a 500-kilowatt I

22:29

was getting more money working for BT playing

22:32

on a Saturday and playing on a Sunday It's actually time

22:34

for Sunland professional football less money than I was getting Master

22:37

Sunland fan huge Sunland fan. It was just that

22:39

was it. I mean you can imagine I've lived

22:42

and breathed it for all my life. I'm

22:44

just huge huge huge on the phone

22:46

opportunity Yeah, was it a reserve

22:49

game then I'm a shoe about 15,000 for

22:53

reserve game we won for one and I mean

22:56

I've still got the team shape Some good players

22:58

on that especially from the mugs at the time because

23:00

they were going well,

23:02

I think this is this is 1993 so

23:05

they were going well, it was

23:07

Kagan Taylor, I said that must

23:09

have been some moment for you to score in that game

23:11

coming from BT office Yeah, but just before

23:14

I signed for Sunland that

23:16

it was I'd been out on the drink on the

23:18

Saturday We played Bishop all and I've been on the drink and I

23:20

was well on war back Absolutely

23:22

phrase and gets to the pitch a warm pitch

23:25

and it's like ice In

23:27

puddles just I saw the referees going ring break

23:29

in the ice so we can play

23:31

and then The

23:36

ball gets played I'm half on and I

23:38

feel absolutely ill anyway gets tripped

23:40

and I just land in one of these puddles

23:43

And I just get up and I'm like Just

23:49

sat down just thought

23:50

What you're doing

23:52

you're finished on you just you've had it

23:55

you've absolutely had it again till we click that's my persona I

23:58

Mean talk about rollercoaster. I was just about

23:59

packet all in.

24:01

You've had two two retirements by the time

24:03

you're 22? I

24:05

will leave at this point. So

24:09

I was retired at 19 and then I was...

24:12

Well, 23. 22, 23. I was sucked and just on the scrapping really, nothing to do.

24:21

And then signed for you end up signed for your boyhood team? Yeah.

24:24

What, 24? 23, just and then I just

24:26

got 23. It was... Yeah, it was before

24:30

me 24th birthday. I've signed in March 1993 and

24:33

then

24:33

made me

24:35

home debut against Portsmouth.

24:37

I think Portsmouth got two sent off and I come on for like

24:39

five minutes, which was great.

24:41

A roger park. A roger park guy. So

24:44

when, you know like when you've got back back

24:47

into it with Sunblum,

24:49

is your knee all right and you're thinking

24:50

I can play at this level? I think I'll be all right at this.

24:54

Again, it's an hour away. You didn't say it. You

24:57

just kept stumping. You're

24:59

a medical one.

25:00

Not, not, no. Touchy-toes. Yeah,

25:03

it was exactly. Just that, you know, that watched us

25:05

play. I'd had a bit of a twisted angle from the Ipswich

25:08

trial. So I was out for about

25:11

three or four weeks, even when I just signed.

25:13

So everything was fine. Got support

25:15

with the physio at

25:16

the time. And I

25:18

just said I've got a few issues with the knee.

25:21

How was it? And I went, it's fine.

25:23

That was enough.

25:24

That was enough. That's good honesty. I'm

25:26

not saying a word about it. But

25:29

I was, to be fair, at the time, I always

25:31

just said, because,

25:32

you know, if you remember, I've

25:35

got 30 butchers over there wearing Ipswich. They

25:37

know I got finished. I was not

25:39

really with the time telling a lie. So I

25:41

just went with them. They just said, well, we'll manage it. But

25:44

I knew then if I had had a couple of days

25:46

off, there were puppies released as, you know, so I wouldn't

25:49

get in the time. So I trained every day. I just made

25:51

sure I was telling me tablets. Lots

25:53

of them. Remember

25:57

your first call?

25:59

John Keer, did John Keer break his leg? So

26:02

John had just shoved it through to us, I've just stepped

26:04

over it and would you believe Keer looked at me left foot and I'm

26:07

kneeing off in the top corner and then minutes

26:10

later he breaks his leg and he does the infamous

26:13

canoes off the pitch. So that

26:15

was when I scored eye. What

26:18

was the dressing room I could have spoken about Don

26:20

Goodman before? It was terrible,

26:23

terrible when I saw him. I mean I had Terry Butcher,

26:25

to me it was an absolute icon, he was a hero.

26:28

I watched him put foot through doors, I watched

26:30

him nearly strangle Gary Spade, I

26:32

watched him do so much as

26:35

a manager, he was awful. And

26:37

I've met him many times before and

26:39

he just says yeah, it just didn't go well for him, it

26:42

just didn't go well for him. But it was them and us, he

26:44

seemed to early in it like Gordon

26:47

Armstrong and I was just got

26:49

on tables, getting caught to be fair and

26:52

it was just always arguments, always

26:54

arguments within the dressing room. Amongst players

26:56

and staff. But mostly it was them against

26:59

us, it was seeing a bit of staff. I mean at times

27:01

we would play shit and Terry

27:04

was obviously player manager

27:06

and he'd just sit there

27:08

and wouldn't see anything. It was because he was there and he was

27:10

thinking about his performance I'm guessing and like

27:12

said Don, I say are you going to fucking see anything and

27:14

then it would all kick off again.

27:17

I mean he came in once to the Planew

27:19

Castle, should have been called off,

27:21

should have been called off, it was absolutely lashing

27:24

there but it was live on some

27:26

TV programme. And

27:28

we'd just come back from Scotland and he

27:31

was missing, nobody's seen him, there was an hour

27:33

before, 45 minutes before and then he

27:35

turns up with his head shaved and seeing

27:37

no surrender and we've got

27:40

Irish lads in it and I

27:43

knew what the connotations were. They were

27:46

like ah, and this is before we got out and then the first

27:48

thing Butch does when he gets to the ball, he absolutely

27:50

hofts it out and we're like ah, we've

27:53

got one nil, it should have been nine. It

27:55

should have been nine. The manager's turned up 45 minutes

27:58

before the game. and

28:01

she'll no surrender we're gonna parachute in

28:03

like like like

28:05

paratroopers we're gonna get the job done

28:08

and we're gonna fuck off and then he said no surrender

28:10

this is minutes

28:12

before we go in there for the the other time away sorry

28:17

yeah just alone in his hotel room and so it's not going well there's only one

28:24

thing for it looking at me that was

28:26

the end really that's just the

28:28

last love this yeah come here I mean

28:31

we were like he coming oh

28:34

he was like do the door she

28:37

have dead

28:38

last

28:40

long after I've

28:41

worked towards the end the end near enough the

28:43

end of the season because you know I think we just

28:45

stayed up

28:46

which was only because I think Cambridge got paid

28:49

did you get any more jobs after that

28:51

managerial I think he ended up managing a hotel

28:53

I think up in Scotland get

29:03

out there and collect their glasses

29:05

I imagine that'd be quite disappointing that though

29:08

you know like some new you see as an absolute

29:10

hero especially when I've just said

29:12

this is my club and

29:14

the transition from being a supporter to a football

29:17

it took us a little time because I'd

29:19

be getting in the bus and I'd be like the god no so you

29:21

fucking shit the deer and you know like let

29:23

the fan on the bus and they'll go will you fucking

29:25

sit down? and

29:28

I'm like just

29:30

kickin off and they just wanted to sit us down

29:32

but to say butch from being where he was

29:35

into the manager that was took the tear and it

29:37

took us about six months to really

29:40

acclimatize to being you know it's like he's a

29:42

profession you got to be perfect you know you kind of you

29:45

know completely it's a job

29:47

and it's that some of the players don't feel

29:49

like I felt it and I found that difficult

29:52

did it get better on the Mick Boxer no got

29:54

worse it was Dawa

29:57

Mick was absolutely Dawa

30:00

So we spent most time doing shadow up

30:02

late and looking nothing else Well,

30:05

you'll go the record. I mean we hardly won

30:07

any and if and it was like nil nil

30:09

one one nil No one one that's as

30:11

about as exciting as it go We've

30:17

got some young lads come through and then there's

30:19

a city turned up and then Andy Melville

30:22

that that year we Just

30:25

before the transition before Radicure

30:28

so we were always struggling but there was a good group.

30:30

There's a good group of local lads. Who's

30:32

tippy? filgrate Center

30:37

for we're going from Luton. We had Alex Chamberlain.

30:39

I played me son.

30:41

I think

30:48

Now

30:50

I might have been one of the greas I know tip I think tip

30:52

he's got a son I think he's I mean Phil

30:55

clean then copy any great All

31:06

right, oh by the way, he listens at all

31:08

so Football

31:21

As I said, it wasn't till really turned up that

31:24

the whole picture just just changed for the

31:26

team I think the players

31:28

that were there it just needed I Wouldn't

31:32

say half-decent. I just just somebody to come

31:34

in just lift the spirits. I mean

31:36

it just made a joyful You

31:38

went from being I can't I

31:40

just don't even go in. I

31:42

mean make books and for me

31:44

Again, so I was playing center for and sent off. So me

31:47

one of my first games is center forward sent off You

31:50

put us we'll plan I'll

31:52

tell you the story behind this as well So we went

31:54

to we plan Tottenham and that was that was

31:57

the FA Cup fourth round and this is it

31:59

was on much idea wasn't like Sky then.

32:02

So he just out the blue he went

32:05

he planned centre off right side it was Jürgen

32:07

Klinsmann, Sherinum and Barnby

32:09

were playing. That was my first

32:12

ever game playing centre off ever. It

32:20

was once each and half time, Benno got sent off

32:22

but yeah the prelude to that

32:24

is because when the FA Cup was on

32:27

the big match however it was called it we

32:29

said right we'll take you off some winter train

32:32

to Fengarola so I think we went on a Tuesday,

32:34

landed, Mcbookston right at Garusol

32:37

in around about five o'clock in the evening

32:39

said look I'll be at dinner you can go

32:42

for a few pints. He said but

32:44

I won't use back for 10 o'clock but

32:46

he got out. So I looked at him

32:49

you watch we're in Fengarola Square it's

32:51

midnight there's nearly

32:53

all the teams still out so we're all

32:55

still drinking, drinking for fun. Now

32:57

I think Kevin wasn't there obviously and then we can

32:59

couple others and then the

33:02

next thing I know is Mickey Grey

33:04

comes in he's already starting to

33:07

get black Craig Russell, Martin Smith's

33:10

in. Fucking hell it's come to me. Don't know why they're coming

33:12

I know why they're coming to me. Yeah my big man

33:14

big man it's all kicking off outside. He

33:16

had one of them, one of them's fucking

33:18

smacked Mickey. So I've gone outside

33:21

on a stay was about 20 or 30

33:23

lads on the other side of this car park

33:26

stood there and I was like yeah

33:29

fucking fucking what? I'm 29

33:32

too many. I'm starting to bend on I'm

33:34

not going to bend on I'm Gordon

33:36

and Gonslide anyway it looks up Phil

33:38

Greer and Derek Ferguson fucking

33:41

cause an argument in an empty room.

33:43

Straight over. I can

33:45

already give it this anyway so the next thing I know

33:48

there's a young Spanish lad he's

33:50

got one of them paint bullseye pots

33:52

glass you know pine glasses and he's chasing

33:54

Phil around the car park with his with his glass and he's

33:57

out anyway so the comes close to me and I was like stop.

33:59

stop stop stop and I said

34:02

put it down put it down and me and you

34:04

this

34:05

guy so it was like that he just

34:07

placed it onto the boot at

34:09

the bottom of the car I ran out went bang

34:12

have that rolled under the car all hell

34:14

broke up he fights everywhere

34:17

everybody's kicking off I almost did about

34:19

nine or ten and it was just it was something

34:21

like a you know like a cowboy movie next

34:24

thing we are sirens so we all

34:27

can scatter scatter everywhere and

34:29

then eventually I'll get back to the hotel

34:31

and my shirt's off just some

34:34

of the lads have gotten a few little bangs

34:36

and bruises I just realized when I got back

34:38

my

34:38

hand was was massive so I just

34:41

got a book with a vise and

34:43

forgot all about we were playing golf and match of the day we're

34:45

turning up to do all the interviews that

34:47

that day so we're playing golf anyway so

34:50

I'm one with you Mickey Greer's got a fucking

34:52

big pair of black glasses he's got a massive

34:54

black eye anyway I find out I mean

34:56

I find out later that

34:59

it all started because Mickey

35:01

had had three pints and he was pissed as always with three

35:03

pints he was having a piss up this lad

35:05

scooter

35:06

and the lad seen him and started shouting at

35:08

him Mickey went to swing a punch at him

35:10

completely missed him fell on the floor and the lad just kicked him

35:12

in the face and that's how it all started

35:15

and then we obviously went you picked up the pieces

35:18

picked up the pieces nearly cause for kids I

35:22

suppose you look angle Frank Groff in there

35:24

the riots that was it was just how long and

35:27

then obviously years later we're playing and

35:29

one of the biggest game in Sunlands history for a long long

35:32

for quite a while in the South Year Cup if Darnay

35:34

fans knew what was going on there I mean but

35:36

to be fair we put up a good display against

35:38

against Spurs so did the manager ever their name

35:40

repercussions

35:40

nothing nothing the thing

35:42

about

35:44

mid-buckston is there was

35:46

lots of stuff that went on it was a big fight

35:48

at Christmas well I think Bali who turned one he

35:50

won a got arrested a couple of lads got arrested later

35:53

that year we had another Christmas party and

35:55

it was a massive fight

35:57

not the fancy dress one the fancy dress one I was

35:59

out again So that was Richard

36:01

odds. He's Mrs. Kmart for some reason, we

36:03

were in this pub, but this lad was chatting

36:05

her up and he wasn't happy about it. And all

36:08

of us had kicked off and all our areas were outside.

36:10

And the next thing I know, there's about 10, 15 lads

36:13

outside. Some of them fans, I'm supposed to say, all want to

36:16

fight with us. So again, Ory throws the first

36:18

punch, there's Helen. I'm dressed

36:20

as Batman. All latex

36:22

gear on, all the body armor, the

36:24

cape. I'm like, wow. Wow, wow. While

36:29

he's dressed up as some woman, I don't know who it was, he brought

36:31

Pete or something. He had

36:35

T-C because he'd brought his leg. Tony Cordon.

36:38

Tony Cordon. He was Long John Silver.

36:40

He was hitting people with his crutch. Quinnie

36:43

was a big monk. You

36:45

look around, it was carnage. And supposedly, the police

36:47

have a video of this fight because

36:49

it was all on CCTV. And is

36:51

this in Sunland City Santa? Sunland City Santa,

36:54

yeah. Please, you're in disguise. Nice.

36:58

So it was mental. And we used

37:01

to go out every Christmas, or it was a fancy

37:03

dress, and we would be fighting. You

37:06

never think just to go somewhere else? Well, we

37:08

tried in Newcastle, and that didn't go until we were up.

37:12

Let's go somewhere, have fun. Let's

37:14

go somewhere and be inconspicuous, with a new castle.

37:17

Can you remember which one? The Baldi one. One

37:19

of the Christmas ones,

37:21

they said, right, there's too many fighting, we're going to invite

37:23

the women. So we went to the Ramside Hall. And

37:25

there was another party down there. And then, until

37:28

I was into the party, the women were fighting.

37:31

The police came and escorted us all out.

37:33

So I think that was it for Christmas parties.

37:36

It was mad. It was a problem, man.

37:38

Good old years. Good old years.

37:40

I was like, we

37:43

play for Sunland. We fought our own fans.

37:46

Very much that mentality, going into games as

37:48

well. We're going into a battle. We're going into a fight.

37:50

Yeah. And again, on the backside, you just

37:52

think, do you know that's what we did? And

37:54

we stuck together. And that was, as

37:57

I said, just them few things that happened.

37:59

Peter Ray was there

38:03

when everything was happening with the

38:05

fancy dress. So it just brought

38:08

us together and where we got our rights, you know,

38:11

these are all fine, these are stuff like that. Behind

38:13

the scenes they just loved it, you know what I mean? It was just

38:15

like, well done Lads for sticking together, you're all

38:17

stuck together, right?

38:19

So how far was it when Reedy came

38:22

in that you thought he's going to do

38:24

something here? Well he came in I think we had six

38:26

or seven games to go and we were down the bottom. We

38:29

got through that season, we stayed up and then the following

38:31

season I was involved in every single game,

38:33

the whole promotion season. I think

38:36

come to the pre-season we got a few plays in and

38:39

it was just, it was just joyous again.

38:41

We went from being, well we're going back and we went from being just here

38:43

and training to really enjoying it. The

38:46

Lord of Five Asides, the tempo

38:48

was high, it was all a bit of a loss. Positivity.

38:52

And then the results started, I mean there weren't going

38:54

great but they were just ticking over lovely.

38:57

And then we went on a fucking massive run. I

39:00

think I scored a Portsmouth right in the

39:02

last death in Alivah Hedda and

39:04

I don't think we lost a game until

39:07

we got promoted that season. I think the last game this season

39:09

we got

39:11

beat off Tramby. But

39:13

apart from that we'd won the league already by then.

39:15

I bet you were a bit disillusioned with it up

39:17

at Reedy coming in because you've been through

39:20

all that, got playing for your boyo clubbing. It's

39:23

a bit shambles. But the industry is brutal.

39:28

Again and I think afterwards

39:31

you look at it and you're going you've got to take the highs with the

39:33

lows. I had a couple

39:35

of good highs, a bloody lot of lows and

39:38

a lot of just like this is just the

39:40

job. And I think the realisation

39:42

of that is the job. It's

39:44

tough graph at the time. You're away from one mile at a time.

39:47

You're back, you're not on the team, you are on the

39:49

team, you're injured. It's

39:52

just mental toughness is

39:54

absolutely what you needed so badly. We were

39:57

just trying to enjoy it as much as you can with

39:59

the injuries.

39:59

that you've had and I suppose

40:02

I'm

40:03

saying did you feel like you're on borrowed time with

40:05

it all? Did you just think I'm going to try and enjoy it as much

40:08

as I could? Oh I enjoyed it. I

40:10

enjoyed it I tell you that the

40:12

whole lot the social the plane that

40:14

I just I went out on I was if

40:17

there was a night out

40:18

I'm out that was I was and

40:21

I was I was I was maybe a bit of a leader

40:23

with that you know I looked back I wished I was maybe

40:25

a little bit more professional but I but that was that's

40:28

what we did you know we all did it it wasn't just

40:30

me we we had a especially at sundon we

40:32

had a big big

40:35

school the drinkers really what

40:37

tuesday's tuesday's wednesday's

40:40

and then

40:40

saturday's and saturday's on the bus I mean

40:43

you know we had some freaking away trips for sundon with sundon

40:45

the bus was full of drink at the end I mean we

40:47

were just just non-stop drinking and playing cards

40:50

and then the bus used to pull out if we got time right

40:52

outside the nightclub so we got organic and

40:55

I was taxing straight in is

40:58

this nile quinn as well well to to fad

41:00

this is before before

41:02

quinny turned up I mean 21-20

41:04

turned up I obviously it was

41:06

massive massive signing and top

41:09

look so sat in the change room I was just trying to make conversation

41:11

and I was going all right quinny met you know it's lovely are

41:14

we pleased to meet you I said where you living

41:16

and he was like uh I've

41:18

got sledgefield I said you

41:20

like the races so he's right down there by the race course and

41:22

stuff I said oh that's nice he says yeah I've

41:24

got a nice place now you know bit of grounds

41:27

and I was lovely he said where are

41:29

you living I said oh I'm living in an estate in

41:31

sunland he went in the state and I went oh yeah

41:34

and he went and he thought for a little while he went I've

41:36

got two peacocks you can have

41:38

and I thought I'm gonna fuck up too bad I went quinny

41:41

I live on a councilor steve who's

41:56

got two peacocks

41:59

two German Shepherds I'm thinking German Shepherds and I

42:02

thought just clicked in the pen he just dropped me went

42:04

he thinks I live on this and like on a steel. So

42:13

were you like your pals and all

42:15

that?

42:16

Obviously a lot of them Sunderland fans,

42:19

were you like their hero?

42:20

Yeah, we all turned 15 we

42:23

all went out for a beer and stuff and you

42:25

know, you just

42:26

remember them deers and stuff and a lot of them just

42:28

said we just were so proud to have a friend to have

42:31

a friend to play for Sunderland which

42:33

was fantastic. But you know what they kept us

42:35

fucking so grounded them. So as soon

42:37

as the game had finished on a Saturday, I

42:40

would obviously play as lounge, have

42:43

a good few beers

42:44

and then I'd be straight into town. Yeah,

42:47

and fans used to be you know, you'd be just around

42:49

you'd be going yeah, you're good to deal you were shit

42:51

to deal and I said fine, I'll just have the button. But

42:53

I was being with me. So just me mates from school

42:55

and stuff. So we were just always having a few

42:57

beers. And if I was on the bench,

42:59

they would always ribbers and stuff. But they just kept

43:02

us really, really down there. And I'm still

43:04

mates with them now. We're all still we're all still mates

43:06

on WhatsApp groups. It's boring as hell,

43:08

but we keep in touch, but it's nice. Did

43:12

you play much in that Premier League year? 14 games.

43:16

But again, I mean, in and out,

43:19

but Mel, Andy Melva got injured. So

43:21

I was going to have a run and run the team and then we

43:24

played leads away. So coming

43:26

off time 1-0, I'm playing against Brian

43:28

Dean and I've had a good game. I'll see you back

43:30

at centre-off now. So I'm back at centre-off now. So once

43:33

once really took over towards the end of

43:36

that promotion season, I was playing more centre-off

43:38

than I was centre-forward. Probably

43:41

maybe 60% centre-off than I was

43:43

centre-forward. Then the Premier

43:45

League, I was coming on a sub. If

43:47

I wanted a sub, then one of the goal obviously throws up there. But

43:50

generally if I was starting, I would start at centre-off.

43:53

But I was playing against Brian Dean and I'll come off at off time.

43:55

They'd scored

43:56

just before off time. And

43:58

then I went in and we had some.

43:59

because some of us have just been sucked

44:02

by nuts currently. And he just, you

44:04

know, really had his pace, said what he wanted to do.

44:07

Bobby did a little bit and then out, just went for a quick

44:09

piss before we went out. And he followed us in

44:11

the fucking toll at some holidays. And

44:13

he was like, fucking get the bastard,

44:15

fucking kick and fucking get right up his ass and

44:18

fucking, and I was fucking coming out. I was like,

44:20

you know, it doesn't happen much, much made it wind me up.

44:22

I went out there and I thought, right, I'm fucking gonna fucking

44:24

have a fucking right go here by and day, you know.

44:26

I've had him under control, I thought I'll fucking

44:28

be aggressive for them. Anywhere, 10

44:31

minutes in, throw in to his feet.

44:34

And he's just bouncing off, come from the side of him. And I went

44:36

and fucking smashed him. He's just lifted his down, smashed

44:39

on me. Just broke it. And I didn't want

44:41

to believe I broke it, but I heard a crack and

44:43

I just, I carried on playing

44:44

for about 15 minutes. And then the ball

44:47

went over to me and I tried to turn and I knew I

44:49

was not that like. Did

44:50

you blame Sam? I

44:54

would, you know, and he's, you would wouldn't

44:56

you, but I just, yeah, it just took me mind

44:58

off being, you know, as you see,

45:01

I'm in control to being out of control.

45:03

Yeah. And I've just, so I brought that, but

45:07

that rehabilitation, we'd had a new physio

45:09

as well called Nigel Carnell and I've

45:11

come off and, but we've got a two week window

45:14

where it was international, and

45:16

they've come up to the Christmas period as well. It

45:18

was December. So

45:22

Mel's injured. We're playing Tottenham two

45:24

weeks time at White Hartley. So

45:26

it was like, you got to get yourself fit and ready to go, will

45:28

you be okay? And I was lying to him, I was going, no,

45:30

I should be okay. So I went

45:32

with the physio and the physio went,

45:34

I'm not sure, I think I'm in the next

45:36

real like, first before I do anything, he

45:39

went, you're okay. And I says,

45:41

it's so, I'm all right, I'm managing

45:43

period. I says, I'm telling you, it's so. And

45:45

he just says, no, you're all right. He says, I'll have a

45:48

jog around the pitch. And he says, put you on the trumpet. So

45:51

I'm on the trumpet one day and the next,

45:53

next day I'm coming in. And I says, it's killing us. Anyway,

45:57

he wouldn't believe us.

45:58

So I ran God now.

45:59

And I says, Gordon, you've got

46:02

to get me to a hospital. I says, I'm

46:04

in agony. I says, you're not fucking listening. So

46:07

they had the x-rays you come out, you want you to detach your ankle

46:09

ball. I say, you're fucking useless. So

46:11

I end up having a fucking, I end up having another operation.

46:13

So they put the nuts and bolts in. Yeah. And

46:16

then I played the rest of the word. Once it was fixed after six

46:18

weeks, I played again. I got back into the team,

46:21

played again. And we had to take all the nuts and bolts out at the end

46:23

of the season. So what was Gordon

46:25

Ellis doing? Well, first of all, I was hit

46:27

good. Sorry for Gordon. He

46:30

was a prison guard, but

46:33

he had his physiotherapy qualifications.

46:36

So he was just coming in to help at the time,

46:38

Gordon. So every now and again, he was, you

46:42

know, the prison service knew he was doing it. He was just coming

46:44

in, matched ears, and he was helping. Anyway, this Nigel

46:46

Carnell, even though he's meant to be good, he's

46:48

fucking rubbish, rubbish, I don't know,

46:50

getting done for libel. But he's also

46:53

really shy. He wouldn't go on the pitch.

46:54

If you were injured, he wouldn't come on. He didn't

46:57

want to come on.

46:58

But really didn't know that until one of the first games.

47:00

So we were playing live in Sky. He

47:03

brought me, I go, just come here. Can you just come

47:05

here? He wanted to come on. He wanted to come on. But

47:07

we didn't know this. He was just having the word with Gordon. And

47:10

so Gordon was

47:12

sat next to him. And I can't remember Gordon. He couldn't

47:14

have been balling. Just fell down to Coventry gear.

47:16

I had to fucking early on in the season, fucking boiling,

47:19

boiling and absolutely boiling. Trainer

47:21

on. Nothing for a little while. Trainer

47:24

on anywhere. So we're looking at the back. He's

47:26

looking down and I can see him whacking Gordon. So

47:29

Gordon's come on. We're big bench caught

47:31

with his head.

47:32

He's running on like that. He's

47:34

putting the pitch, gets in the middle of the

47:36

pitch. And he's treating Bali and

47:38

he's got his thing. So we're all walking up and he went, well,

47:41

yeah. Gordon, what the fuck you doing?

47:43

He went, I'm on the fucking sick. I

47:46

believe yes, he's on the sick.

47:48

I

47:52

believe. So he

47:54

came full time after having him. Couldn't

47:57

get the cameras to see him. So he was like, oh.

47:59

But that, is this exactly

48:02

on the champet as well? Aye.

48:04

I mean he,

48:06

at times as well, I mean it was like, Tasey,

48:09

Tony Courtney, he smushed

48:11

his leg and smothered the reins, I saw

48:13

the poor O'Roddy and he was meant

48:15

obviously to come through with his

48:18

rehabilitation and keep with it. But he kept taking

48:20

his crutch off him so eventually when he came

48:22

back after six weeks it mended bent,

48:26

so I had to break it again. What,

48:28

so the top crutch off to try and get the

48:30

right strength? He took the wall for more strength but

48:33

it actually then, it wasn't, so

48:35

a lot of the stuff, he didn't last long I'm telling you, he didn't

48:37

last long but he was, not only was he good,

48:39

he couldn't even get on the pitch, they'd be able to treat you. On

48:42

the thick. I'm on the thick. Did

48:45

you ever push back from going to centre

48:47

back from striker? Were you disappointed? Did

48:50

you feel you were a better striker or? Again,

48:52

I was just one of the players, so I

48:55

was a player that was always in and out, so I

48:57

would have a run on the side, three or four

48:59

games and it just wouldn't quite work or I wouldn't score

49:01

because we weren't on top at all

49:03

at times, it was always a struggle and changing

49:05

and put Craig Russell in better pace or we

49:08

want the big lad on. So when they said

49:10

go back to centre off and to be, I

49:12

felt more comfortable then at centre off as well because

49:15

generally you've just got to head it and kick it and

49:17

I was aggressive anyway so it suited my

49:20

game probably a little bit more than being

49:23

the centre forward. And again, people didn't

49:25

realise at the time, my knee was deuterian

49:28

as well. It

49:30

wasn't fixed properly as well. Did

49:34

you say it's like a preservation thing for your career

49:36

maybe? No wonder your knee weren't right. You're

49:39

stepping back from that. I wanted to. When

49:42

I went to Burnley and stuff I tried to make it clear

49:44

that I was wanted to be a centre off because centre

49:47

forward was too much.

49:52

I just wanted to play and

49:54

that's one of the reasons I left Sunderland. I just wanted

49:56

to play because we'd get promoted. I'd

49:58

play the last 14 games. times of the Premier

50:01

League season. Just

50:03

went down. We just never scored enough goals. I think we had

50:06

the highest points scored in

50:08

the Premier League at that time. Then we went down and

50:10

we played Sheffield and I did the first game live

50:12

again on Sky on the Sunday. Andy

50:15

Melville was back in the team and I was just disappointed.

50:17

I couldn't understand. It probably was the right decision. Melville was

50:19

a better centre off than I was. Nobody

50:21

wants me dropped. But I just didn't want to be dropped. I just wanted

50:23

to play on it. I knew I was on board for a time and I

50:26

just wanted to play as many games before it

50:28

was all over. Hence I

50:30

went to Burnley. Tough

50:32

decision

50:32

to... Fucking decision that was.

50:37

Was it the stand

50:39

that signed you? No, it was Chris Waddell.

50:42

Chris Waddell was brilliant for the 78 games. Then I just mentioned

50:48

I'd come away and I was like,

50:50

I just fucking want to be away. The next thing I know, I'm

50:53

in my house and I get a phone from Reid. He just said,

50:56

we'll just accept a bid for 200 grand

50:58

from Burnley. Waddell, I want you. Was

51:01

that League 1? Yes. Was that at the

51:03

time? Yes. We dropped them down. So I went from Premier

51:05

League. So Premier League, last 14 games.

51:07

Then

51:08

we got ready together to the Championship.

51:11

So I was thinking I was going to be

51:13

a season of Championship, but then I went League 1. Again,

51:16

at the time I was like, just want to play.

51:18

Just want to play.

51:20

You thought there might have been some other championship

51:22

clubs interested, but

51:24

you just first option to League. It was

51:26

Waddell. I just

51:28

said the gaffers. To be fair,

51:30

the radio went, Lee, I don't know what you can see.

51:32

He says, I'll be with you. You're

51:35

a good lad, you're good in the dressing room, all that sort of stuff.

51:37

You knew we could have still keep you in and out. He

51:39

went, it's just, it's up to you. But

51:42

I went down to Burnley. At

51:44

the end of the time, there was Chris Waddell,

51:47

Breastam, Glen Rorder, it

51:49

was Gordon Sid Caverns and

51:52

Chris Woods, the Cape

51:59

And so it was like, we sat

52:02

down, we were chatting about the contract and stuff. Abigynnus,

52:05

Abigynnus, Abigynnus. There's about 15

52:07

guineas is here. And I was like, no, I'm not signing

52:09

them. After about the 16th, I went, ah, fuck it. Ah,

52:12

fuck it. Give me that pen over here. I

52:14

never had a clue, didn't I? They were signing.

52:16

Didn't, at the time, forgot what the

52:18

toll is. Just didn't

52:22

set us off. Signed, so, fucking

52:24

hell. And then I turned up, I never played because

52:28

I was a bit all over. So

52:30

Watford and then the Mundra was in training. And

52:32

then I went to the training facilities, I was like, ah, fucking

52:35

groceries and shit pictures. What

52:37

have I done? Did you just have to embrace it though?

52:40

You tried, you got to. I've made that

52:42

decision now, I've signed. So,

52:45

on our contract? 1200, three

52:50

year contract, 20

52:51

grand sign on fee. So,

52:53

so, all those things. That 16th part, weren't

52:55

too bad then. So, I wasn't too bad. So, for that, that

52:58

was all right. And then moving

53:00

expenses and stuff like that. So, I could

53:02

relook it. So,

53:05

I got all that, which was okay. But

53:07

again, I went down, that was a fucking basket

53:09

case of a place. The

53:12

place didn't like Rota, the place didn't like Waddle.

53:14

It was just, it was, it was all over

53:16

the place. And I turned up, I mean,

53:18

off nice car because I'd gotten an off-base and

53:20

theorized that they're summoned. And

53:23

I think some of them, they were League One players, I'd

53:25

put them up. It was this big time,

53:27

that's the thing. Yeah, if you

53:29

met them, I'm definitely not big time. I just turned

53:31

up and I was just like,

53:32

all right, okay. And then we

53:34

just got off to the worst start.

53:37

You scored in your first game. You scored in your first game,

53:40

Lincoln and the Cubs scored. And then we played

53:42

at home to Brentford, I think. David

53:45

Ades got sent off. He told the management

53:47

to fuck off. And he was in there.

53:51

And then, I

53:52

was sent a fault then and then

53:54

after, I was sent off, I was just a really bad

53:56

star.

53:57

And then they made me cut, which I think

53:59

was the worst. thing they couldn't have done because I went back

54:01

to centre-off and I was playing well but

54:04

we couldn't score. We just went like six

54:06

seven games without the goal that

54:08

season and whatever we did it just

54:10

was and it just was just

54:12

was really a real struggle

54:14

and then I mean it come to it to the

54:16

end where we were playing

54:18

Yoke City away. I think

54:20

we'd gone I think we'd scored one nil there wasn't

54:23

much left of the game Marlin Berresford's in

54:25

goal Marlin puts the ball

54:27

down for a goal kick runs up kicks

54:29

the floor the ball rolls just out

54:31

the box to raw it was a fact in his scores

54:34

one's age we will I are. Marlin!

54:37

Marlin! And then score the last minute

54:40

two one. Copy! That

54:43

was fun. So we're all four kickers so

54:46

we're all in for a big chat

54:49

Barnes is gone nuts everybody's just can

54:51

lose in the law and it was just it was

54:54

it was horrendous like. What was Wardle like as a

54:56

manager in terms of commanding

54:59

respect and training and to

55:01

be fair when I come to training and he used to play

55:03

himself he was the best player on the freaking pitch he was

55:05

kidding me he was a wadler he fucking ping it

55:07

everywhere. Did

55:09

Wardle find it frustrating

55:11

managing players with all due respect or

55:14

weren't ever at his level? He wanted

55:16

to play a certain way of football and that

55:18

came down from the Premier League and championship

55:20

and you know being able to pass it and that's where

55:22

he wanted to do and that's what happened early does

55:24

so he wanted us to put it in you

55:26

know put into faith midfielders didn't

55:29

want the ball and we would just give them goals away

55:31

I mean the teams were just pressing us and just tapping the ball

55:33

over and scoring it was it

55:35

was pretty odd and then the next

55:37

time we get out get it I'll be looking up to pass it

55:40

and all I would just say is arses and you're just having

55:42

to then huff it to 50 yards and it wasn't my game

55:44

either I was thinking fuck it I'll

55:46

be like my leg will come off never mind me near you

55:49

so it was yeah it was torture it

55:51

was torture to be fair but we stayed up

55:54

but I became a brunt of I

55:56

became you know the figurehead of

55:58

like everything bad about it. Burnley was

56:00

me and I got out there was one of them clubs

56:03

where I was fucking here to buy the fans

56:05

as well. Was ya? Aye.

56:07

Stick. Stick. I mean it wasn't going well we

56:11

had a couple of really bad performances as everything

56:13

was just turned the pressure was getting on me and

56:16

then he put a center forward against Northampton

56:18

for some reason and he dropped Andy Cook and

56:20

Andy Cook was there best goal scorer he was

56:23

in club A row. Putting you under more pressure.

56:25

And again I was trying my knackers

56:28

off but it just again wasn't working and

56:30

then I went for a chance and you know just went for

56:32

a dive in there but just I was wide it was too

56:34

wide I'd roll just on the side of the pitch and I would just

56:36

see the fans face. Fucking

56:38

hell they were ferocious spitting fucking

56:41

corners all the names under the sun and then the next

56:43

game was against Bristol

56:45

City. You know when you just you know there's an hour

56:48

and a bit before the game and you just wander under the pitch and

56:50

you're just looking around and stuff so I stood there it was about Antfellow

56:52

maybe 15 Burnley fans and I'm

56:54

just walking around and I'm getting out of here you're fucking

56:57

useless. And I walked out and I

56:59

went I mean fucking start a plane yeah. Fucking

57:03

shit. It's not gonna make any fucking

57:05

plane any better if you're gonna abuse us and then they were like

57:07

first of all you thought oh they've

57:09

got it like and I got out of the tunnel and I got

57:12

in there like you fucking steal your sleep. You

57:16

don't put your strip on for that you're just singing.

57:20

Oh big style. I mean I'm thick

57:22

skin and I'm strong yeah yeah being through freaking

57:24

you know traumas in my life but it's

57:27

it is it is tough I mean

57:29

I can handle you've had a bad game and you got out like I just

57:31

know playing Sunland you can get your fucking useless to

57:33

the early and all I can get that. Didn't

57:36

mind it for many of me managers but when it's constant

57:39

and you you are the

57:40

you know the heat because I felt

57:42

as though everything wrong with Burnley and it

57:45

was I was there you know figure

57:47

point for that that was there you know top in

57:50

your

57:51

avenue. The

57:53

players like we were though. You know you said they were a bit

57:56

standoffish when you first signed did you obviously

57:58

grow into and the last Well, I mean,

58:00

I've got a couple of after tasting friends and stuff,

58:02

but it wasn't the same cultures like the lads

58:04

that we brought in from other clubs. They

58:06

all decided live in Manchester.

58:08

So when I was on the end, I was, I was,

58:11

I stopped just on the outskirts of Harrigger.

58:13

And then the other lads were like the local lads

58:15

and the neighbor, he went out and neighbor, he did anything. So it

58:18

was just like, there's

58:20

no way of really getting to know them.

58:22

Completely different from what you'd had at Sunday. So

58:24

we were close mates over there. Everything,

58:28

everything about it was just so, so close

58:30

to like, as soon as trainer finish, everybody

58:33

just wanted to get away. And it was just

58:35

like, oh, okay. Nothing, you

58:37

know, near tennis, they messing around, you know,

58:39

they going for a coffee. Did you want to go for a tea? Do you want

58:41

to try as well? Cause you know, you were talking about being like

58:43

entertainment manager. Always, always asking

58:45

for anybody for the fun to you to be. Yeah. No.

58:48

And again, it's, it's just then hard to

58:50

really

58:51

get that, get that bond with the rest of the lads.

58:53

Yeah. I'll lower my hands up. You know, I

58:56

played well for maybe five, six games, but

58:58

it just got,

58:59

you know, me form was, was, was terrible

59:01

again. But like everybody else's.

59:03

It sounds similar to something under

59:05

boxing and butcher though. Look at some of the players

59:07

that they had. Did it need a Stanton

59:09

and just to come in,

59:11

lift everybody's spirits and never lifted

59:13

mine. Okay.

59:18

It would even work. Exactly what you were doing.

59:25

I mean, he firstly come in

59:27

and I knew what I knew what I'm sorry. I'm

59:29

sorry. Okay. And you said he just, he just come in the dressing

59:31

room first year and he's when he's

59:33

roll a bunch of cunts,

59:35

you nearly got them. What you nearly got really

59:37

good at this king of great team. He's a fucking useless,

59:39

your useless, your shit. And he went, can

59:41

anybody take a long throw in one of the lads

59:43

when I can, he went, you're in me team. The rest of you is I'll fucking

59:46

make me mind up. And I thought, oh, that's where we're going

59:48

to play. So that was it. So he went out and

59:50

he just called as a point shoot, but it just got, it

59:52

just got really bad. And he was like, he was son,

59:55

he was sending some Ellis to dig

59:57

with me as well. What you doing? Where you

59:59

going?

59:59

where you're living. I

1:00:02

was living in Harriga but Mrs didn't like it

1:00:04

so I was traveling in from Sunderland so that all got

1:00:06

stopped. Get yourself

1:00:09

into the office right you're moving in. I ended up moving in with Glen

1:00:11

so Glen did also so the

1:00:13

day was I would cook. He

1:00:17

would drive so

1:00:19

but all that sort of stuff was going on and then

1:00:22

the game started. Again I

1:00:24

feel as though I'm a good pro. Work

1:00:26

my nappers off, get myself fit in

1:00:29

preseason and then I'm in East Arden. I'm

1:00:31

in East Arden 11 for the first couple

1:00:33

of games and then we play I think we'll

1:00:35

play Barry

1:00:36

in one of the one of the cups when you're on Midway cups

1:00:39

and I'm broken. I just says to him everything,

1:00:42

hard grams and stuff, I mean backwards killings and

1:00:44

we had loads of injuries everybody was struggling and

1:00:46

he got something to come and just begged us. He said

1:00:49

look Lee

1:00:50

we've got this young lad called Scott. Scott

1:00:53

somebody or the he was 17 he was going to be making

1:00:55

his debut against York on the Saturday

1:00:58

and he needed a season. He needs somebody to help

1:01:00

him and I went I can't play. I

1:01:02

said I'm twisted. I'm completely

1:01:04

broken so on and on and on and on

1:01:07

and so eventually again I just went

1:01:09

I'll play. 16 points yeah. So

1:01:14

again nice warm day running.

1:01:17

I was fucking that Creswell. It was

1:01:19

Man City when they were in the third division of York.

1:01:21

Big tall lad gangly but he ran

1:01:24

the channels. He was running the channels. Oh

1:01:26

my god so it was about

1:01:28

two minutes before halftime and we

1:01:31

we got a throwing and obviously it's a long throwing. He wants

1:01:33

me to get up. I'm on my

1:01:35

knees so he can't get up.

1:01:37

I'm fucking nagged. He went fucking

1:01:39

get up and I just turned around and lost

1:01:42

my steam was coming out my ears and obviously

1:01:44

I just went well you

1:01:45

fuck off.

1:01:47

Anyway threw in blah blah whistle

1:01:49

blows. We're all in the fucking change. So

1:01:52

I'm sat there and sweat pissing out of me. Buck's

1:01:54

killing us. So I'm just sat next to Steve

1:01:56

Broderwick and Mark Winstonley.

1:02:00

He just comes in, the door throws open, he went, you

1:02:02

fucking dare to, I mean, I out you went anyway, you

1:02:04

fucking sacked.

1:02:05

And I said, fucking good. And I

1:02:08

just took me top off and threw with Adam. I just

1:02:10

went straight into the shower. And then I heard, and

1:02:12

you're fucking sacked and you'll never play for the fucking

1:02:14

gimmick again. I didn't know it was, but he

1:02:16

sacked fucking two of other players there in

1:02:18

it. It changed very well. I

1:02:21

heard the boots gone out. And it was Steve

1:02:23

Blathwick and Mark Winstall, he went, what the fuck did we

1:02:25

do? I

1:02:29

just got me gay run and I just drove away from the

1:02:31

ground. And I could hear the match

1:02:34

commentary going

1:02:36

on. And then off I went. But I only

1:02:38

got so far up, game finished, and you

1:02:41

went, you're in tomorrow. What, phone

1:02:43

call? Phone call, you're back in tomorrow. So

1:02:45

I turned up and it was just like just a running session.

1:02:47

Who called you, Stan? No, Stan wouldn't

1:02:49

call us. It's easy, he kept giving Sam to give

1:02:51

us a call. And that was the start.

1:02:54

And eventually I went to see him. He went, I'm

1:02:56

telling you now, you'll never play for Burnley again. He

1:02:59

said, so

1:03:00

that's it. You don't.

1:03:02

And do you? I said, that's fine. I says, you'll have

1:03:04

to fucking sell this. I've still got

1:03:06

you and a bit left on my contract.

1:03:08

And he went, you've had this money, you've had that

1:03:11

money, you're a fucking, you just, you're just terrible to us.

1:03:13

Anyway, so

1:03:14

I turned up with the trainer with the lads. And he went,

1:03:16

you're not training. He said, you'll

1:03:18

wait till the end and make the real, I'll

1:03:21

train you. But it was just a running session. It was just

1:03:23

doggies, doggies for about fucking 45

1:03:25

minutes. So this was what I was

1:03:27

for a little time. He was just

1:03:30

doggies. And then eventually he, so

1:03:32

he got Sam to come and say, will you come in on

1:03:35

tomorrow, tomorrow morning, another morning? This

1:03:38

has been about three weeks now. He told us I wouldn't

1:03:40

play again. And I've been running me knackers off.

1:03:42

He went,

1:03:44

he come in, he went, we've had stork.

1:03:46

I want to take you. He said, but I've told him to

1:03:48

fuck off. He said, he says, you're

1:03:50

not going.

1:03:51

I was like, what?

1:03:53

He went, no, tell him to fuck off. You're not going. He

1:03:55

says, you can stay and run with them.

1:03:58

I was fucking furious. So I just thought, well,

1:03:59

I just went on the drink, that was bad, I was just turning off

1:04:02

for the running session. I

1:04:07

got Glenn to pick the droppers off in the morning, I

1:04:09

was fucking

1:04:10

completely hungover every training session,

1:04:12

just completely tossed off. You ever think about, did

1:04:15

you just

1:04:15

breeze through the running? Oh,

1:04:19

to be fair, Mick Duckley played for Sunland

1:04:22

and I met him a few times and he was a really nice

1:04:24

gentleman and he was devastated,

1:04:26

he had to do it. He was really devastated, so

1:04:28

he just got into that. He knew I was just

1:04:30

going through it and he never said a word, he just knew we

1:04:33

had to give him 20 of them, 15 of them and so forth.

1:04:38

Glenn spoke about his relationship

1:04:40

with Stan and it was love here, they

1:04:42

used to get onto him all the time. Can you remember any examples?

1:04:47

The bottle on the bus, the head

1:04:49

tennis. He'd gone, so I'd

1:04:52

gone by the time all this happened. So Glenn

1:04:55

was always a big character, Glenn, I loved it, I was

1:04:57

just saying I used to live with him. But

1:05:00

I remember

1:05:02

one weekend he said, we'd had the weekend off

1:05:05

and again he'd got a decent contract,

1:05:07

he'd just bought a nice car like this, this

1:05:10

rule over something or other, which was a decent mortar.

1:05:13

He'd already had it a few days and he'd already gotten three

1:05:15

points on his license and I was like,

1:05:17

no good. Anyway, he said, I'm off

1:05:19

to London. He said, you're all right, vice

1:05:21

versa, well, I've got to stop here. So

1:05:23

off he went. He said, by the time he come back,

1:05:27

on the way down because he was flying, he'd got

1:05:29

stopped by three constabaries and

1:05:32

got three points

1:05:32

in every one. So by the time he

1:05:34

got back, he got 12 points on his license. He's

1:05:37

your driver. My driver,

1:05:40

he appealed and I think he was R.I. for a little while. Yeah.

1:05:44

But the whole argument was then Northampton came

1:05:46

in for us. Again, it was Ian Atkins

1:05:49

who I'd had from Ipswich and we played with Ipswich

1:05:51

with him and he was assistant manager

1:05:53

to Terry Butcher and

1:05:56

was all agreed

1:05:58

and I was going to go down.

1:05:59

I was still owed 20 grand.

1:06:01

Stan wouldn't give a shit.

1:06:03

And he knew I wanted to be weird, bad as well, because

1:06:05

everybody just went, I'll, you

1:06:08

come up and then you come back. I said, I'll fuck and say

1:06:10

your first thing in the morning.

1:06:11

And there was silence for a little while. And I just

1:06:13

fucking slammed the phone down. So anyway,

1:06:16

it was about 35

1:06:17

minutes later, the secretary

1:06:20

came on the phone and just said, Lee,

1:06:23

Lee, I said, yep, he went, they're having

1:06:26

the world with the chairman. They're trying

1:06:28

to do something around. And I says, well, tell him, yeah,

1:06:31

I want me full money on coming back. She'd

1:06:34

put the phone down there at the one end, she'd come back and she was crying.

1:06:36

And she went, what have you said to him? He says

1:06:39

he's gone fucking nuts. And she was off crying.

1:06:41

He says, he's been horrible. I mean, he was an horrible

1:06:43

fucking man. I didn't like him. And eventually

1:06:46

he said, 20 grand minus tax. He says,

1:06:48

we'll give you a 12 grand severance appear, which

1:06:50

worked out near enough where I was anywhere. So

1:06:53

I snapped his hand off and I says, I'm fucking gone. I'd

1:06:56

have killed him. I mean, I literally fucking

1:06:58

hate that that man's got.

1:07:00

He tried to like a twat and I wasn't, I

1:07:02

was a decent pro. But like I said to you before,

1:07:05

we had a word with, with a center

1:07:07

off, you've had a trainer, was it Barry

1:07:09

and Plymouth and? Oh, Swoney.

1:07:12

Swoney had a word with Swoney. Swoney actually told

1:07:14

us that, that was all, he always

1:07:16

was playing all over. So they wanted you out before

1:07:18

they could get in. Swoney was unafraid,

1:07:21

but obviously they're gonna free up the wages. Yeah, yeah.

1:07:24

And that 20 grand would have come in handy as well. But

1:07:26

then, then the last game of that season,

1:07:29

we played Burnley

1:07:30

and that scored.

1:07:32

And I think he sucked Paul Crichton after that. I

1:07:34

don't know what to do. I don't know what

1:07:36

to do. It

1:07:39

was the last game of the season that was really wet. It's

1:07:42

six fields and I've scored ahead and he's like

1:07:44

slipped through him. It's gone on the bottom, just slipped

1:07:46

through him and got an arm strike.

1:07:48

He went for it. Did you, celebration?

1:07:51

Oh, I went out or am I? I called

1:07:53

him all the little fuckers and, straight

1:07:56

in his face. Oh, that was just on the edge. Like everybody

1:07:58

grabs you. And then, And the next time I seen him,

1:08:01

he came to watch Northampton, Clear

1:08:03

Man City, at Meyn Road, when

1:08:05

they were in the third division of the plane. And he

1:08:07

was just in the dugout, you know, you have a nice fog. He

1:08:10

just stood there, you know, you come to

1:08:12

watch really. And he had the audacity

1:08:14

to see R8 Lee, and I went fuck off,

1:08:16

he little cunt.

1:08:17

And that was it. He just turned around and went away. Do

1:08:20

you know when he sat here

1:08:22

at half time, is that the, did he

1:08:24

do some on the radio as well?

1:08:26

Yes. So he was on the radio, certainly. Did

1:08:29

you hear it? He heard about it. Right.

1:08:31

It was, it was, it was, it was, Damini was

1:08:33

just telling us that I wasn't good enough for, I

1:08:35

was disrespectful, all that sort of stuff. It was just, and it

1:08:37

was rubbish. And I, I've actually read the

1:08:40

insert as well from his, from his book. And it

1:08:42

was fucking Pacolizer. Didn't, I didn't, I'm like, I

1:08:44

was Lord of shit. Lord

1:08:46

of shit. Read my book, that's the truth.

1:08:49

Yeah.

1:08:50

Yeah. He knew all along. He

1:08:52

knew all along. He was fine as left-line sent. Honestly, I had

1:08:54

that name on it. He was, every time. Come personal.

1:08:56

Yeah. And he went, where have

1:08:59

you traveled in from? You find,

1:09:01

you find, you just find as a week wages.

1:09:03

I had the pay a fee on, I was just, it was torture

1:09:06

for around about eight weeks. And what was the period

1:09:08

from him coming into you leaving? Well,

1:09:12

you imagine he came on for start the season, pre-season

1:09:15

and I think it was fourth

1:09:17

game in.

1:09:19

He said, I'll never play for Burnley again.

1:09:21

And then it took them probably another eight weeks to get me

1:09:23

out.

1:09:23

Right. Yeah. I

1:09:25

can't understand why he turned the stoke thing down.

1:09:28

Well, like

1:09:29

what, what

1:09:30

rhyme or reason is for that.

1:09:31

I can just show you nothing. So unless

1:09:33

it was just a, just to wind me up, even more don't

1:09:36

know, don't know the truth of a strange one. Where's

1:09:39

he from? Is he

1:09:40

from here? Oh,

1:09:41

I think originally he's from one of the minor

1:09:43

villages. That's

1:09:46

that's don't think weren't even on, you know,

1:09:49

you want to get Peter Swan in,

1:09:52

whether that's just a dig

1:09:54

at you. Yeah. I told him fuck off

1:09:56

because,

1:09:58

because that's the way he was. I mean, I've heard. people

1:10:00

say, yeah, he says things just to push

1:10:02

your buttons and so forth. So whether or not that was complete

1:10:05

lies, I don't know, because I didn't have an agent.

1:10:07

I was just working, I wasn't, or some of

1:10:09

his rangers and said, no, we've got this and we've got that.

1:10:11

I was, you know, I didn't need any agent.

1:10:13

I wasn't any

1:10:15

big time in football.

1:10:17

Did you feel like it was a fresh start at Northampton then? It

1:10:19

was great. It was great because I knew

1:10:22

Kevin Wilson, Jocky Wilson from Ipswich,

1:10:24

you know, the old years and Ian

1:10:26

Atkins. And

1:10:28

I got on with a few of the lads

1:10:30

there. And then eventually they signed

1:10:33

a few lads from the North East, which was fucking brilliant. And

1:10:35

so we had again, we then we turned out and we had another

1:10:37

drinking skill. And then it was just, it was

1:10:40

carnage to be fair. How were you when you

1:10:42

first went to Northampton fitness wise? You

1:10:44

know, I see you said you just were on the drink all of

1:10:46

the time. Yeah, it took us again, it took us a couple

1:10:49

of weeks. I was always, even though I was drinking,

1:10:53

I was only maybe that for around about three weeks,

1:10:57

three week bender. But yeah,

1:11:00

I'd come with customer. I was, the

1:11:03

stories are I was, I was a fairly

1:11:05

big drinker to be fair that at the time when I got

1:11:07

enough, I got bigger. But you enjoyed it on

1:11:10

the pitch. I enjoyed it on the pitch. I loved it.

1:11:12

I loved playing. Again, it was just

1:11:15

love getting the

1:11:16

physicality, the aggressiveness. And

1:11:19

again, I just was just loved the battles.

1:11:21

And as I said, I lived by

1:11:23

the sword and I died by the sword. I'm ruined.

1:11:26

You know, completely. I've got bolts

1:11:28

in my back, you know, rods in my back. I've got

1:11:30

two knees done. I've got angles

1:11:33

done. I've snapped my angle from elbows.

1:11:36

There's not much left of it. I've smashed my nose

1:11:39

millions of times. Yeah, I've got cuts

1:11:41

on the head.

1:11:42

But I put my head in where I shouldn't because

1:11:45

I played on the edge really of playing

1:11:47

the edge of a lawful and unlawful, but

1:11:50

mostly it was unlawful, I guess where

1:11:52

I was at the time. You like the dark

1:11:54

arts? Oh, that sort of story. There's

1:11:56

loads of the amount of footballers I made and

1:11:58

the guy you did that to me. I

1:12:03

mean, the Jeff Thomas thing, I mean, I pulled

1:12:06

Jeff, I just went through him and he was out

1:12:09

from over a year. Did you feel bad about

1:12:11

that one? Not at the time. But yeah,

1:12:14

later life you do, but he was giving

1:12:16

it out and giving it the big large and he was kicking

1:12:18

people and he was a bit of a bully himself on

1:12:20

the pitch. And then I went on and

1:12:22

all I thought about was if I get the chance, I'm

1:12:25

not holding anything back.

1:12:28

And then I did, I was sent forward the time he was in the field and it just

1:12:30

broke in between us and popped a 50-50. And

1:12:33

I just tore into it. I just went there. But

1:12:35

I knew what I was doing, just skimmed the top of the

1:12:37

ball. So you just saw it with

1:12:41

every man for themselves. I

1:12:44

think you probably had a couple of lads on and I

1:12:47

knew my limitations and I knew what I was there

1:12:49

for, especially when I was a centre forward. I was

1:12:51

there to put myself about. And

1:12:55

if I grabbed a few goals and stuff like that,

1:12:57

I would mess a few people up, scare a few,

1:12:59

whack a few goalkeepers, whack a few centre-offs.

1:13:01

I had like, said Craig Russell, Phil

1:13:03

Gray, Don Goodman and stuff. And that was my job,

1:13:06

get up, get the arms up. I

1:13:08

made my nickname and the place was Lunge. I

1:13:10

literally used to... Lunge. Lunge.

1:13:14

Everything and anybody. And I did it in training. I

1:13:16

was not as bad as Barley at

1:13:18

times, but I was a nasty man. I

1:13:24

crossed that line, I was a nasty piece of work. Was

1:13:26

it over the line? We talked about it quite a lot. Yeah.

1:13:29

The switch. Yeah.

1:13:30

I mean, at times it did.

1:13:33

Spill over. Spill over. Yeah.

1:13:36

I'm fighting. At

1:13:39

times with my team-mates, I've maybe gone a bit too far

1:13:41

as well personally. And I just think sometimes

1:13:43

when I look back now, I regret that. But

1:13:46

that was the school, that was the biggest

1:13:49

man who's the hardest, who

1:13:51

drinks the most, all that sort of stuff. And

1:13:54

I was one of them. And I was one of them.

1:13:56

And had you looked back on that era now?

1:13:59

I loved everything. minute of it. I mean when

1:14:01

I think about it I couldn't have played now, limitations

1:14:04

on my knee, all that sort of stuff but then I just

1:14:07

had the fucking time of my life. You

1:14:09

fit in well for that mentality. Yeah,

1:14:11

mentality. That was my era. I

1:14:13

just thought that was, I mean if

1:14:16

I went back further, I would

1:14:18

probably have been okay as well, you know, when they were kicking each

1:14:20

other up a height, I'd have been fine. But soon

1:14:22

as I got into the 2000s and stuff, I finished

1:14:24

it though, I mean I finished at 32 but I went on

1:14:28

a, yeah, still because I couldn't stop playing

1:14:30

football even though I was taking virtually wheelchair

1:14:33

under the pigeon through on the phone but I couldn't

1:14:35

stop playing football but I knew professionally

1:14:37

I was done at 32. I was

1:14:39

going to ask you, but I think you've just answered the question.

1:14:42

You know you said you earn him more money at the mail

1:14:44

when you first signed for Sunland. Any

1:14:47

regrets about that? Again, mainly

1:14:50

pay for the Sunland fans, I come up and go, what's it

1:14:52

like? What was it like? What was it like? And I'd

1:14:54

be thinking, are you a Sunland fan? How

1:14:57

am I alive? I said, so if I said to you, you can play

1:14:59

for Sunland tomorrow, oh, and I went,

1:15:01

it's just exactly how I felt

1:15:04

and it took, I still now when I look back,

1:15:06

I look back with the great pride, you

1:15:08

know, I just did that up that I was able to represent

1:15:11

Sunland Football Club and some you know, pair with times

1:15:13

with some, you know, we got promoted to the Premier

1:15:15

League. I just, I was playing

1:15:17

Sunland football

1:15:19

two seasons before then I was playing in the Premier

1:15:22

League and a few months before then,

1:15:24

a few years before then I was told I'd never play football again.

1:15:26

So for me, it was just,

1:15:28

some turnaround, but again, for all

1:15:30

them operations, for everything I've done, I still

1:15:32

wouldn't change it for the world. It was, it was just,

1:15:35

and I've made some great friends, you know, and I've got some,

1:15:37

you know, off-decent stories. I wrote a book

1:15:39

about it and so forth. It's just, it's just some

1:15:42

things that I would just think. I used to tell

1:15:44

people this story and they couldn't believe it and they

1:15:46

would say, write it down, write it down. I never

1:15:48

really had the time or the patience, but after 10

1:15:51

years of being persuaded, I actually

1:15:53

did get it down in mind.

1:15:55

Did you come up with a name for the book? I tell

1:15:57

you what, would you believe the name came

1:15:59

in this room?

1:16:00

Really? We had a do one, it was Premier

1:16:03

Pashin's, it was the 25th anniversary,

1:16:06

or the 20th anniversary, and it was a big deal.

1:16:09

The big top tier was here, and there was a compare,

1:16:12

and obviously Cuny was here, and

1:16:14

Ollie's

1:16:17

honours, and this one, Barley, and Cuthan,

1:16:19

blah, blah, blah, and it says, and Lee

1:16:22

Hawley, the violin, decided Lee average.

1:16:28

Everybody started pissing themselves off, and

1:16:30

they always added in me this decidedly

1:16:32

average, massively violent,

1:16:35

and I had friends and the thing, and it just sums

1:16:37

you up. It was a

1:16:39

play on words, but I thought it was great. I

1:16:42

wasn't the best of players. I

1:16:44

was good at what I did,

1:16:46

but like before, I was

1:16:48

average amongst that elite.

1:16:50

When people try to give you some

1:16:53

stick when you're out there, you just think, you have no idea.

1:16:56

There's been a player and all that sort of stuff, and you have no

1:16:58

idea what it's like to play at

1:17:00

an elite level. You

1:17:03

have to be a good player. But again, I

1:17:05

just knew what I was doing. I had to knock a few

1:17:08

people over. If you could play one game

1:17:10

again in your career,

1:17:11

what would you go for? Wimbledon

1:17:14

away,

1:17:15

when we went down.

1:17:16

Just see if I could change it again.

1:17:19

It's Sunderland. It's Sunderland, aye.

1:17:22

We had the crazy game last game of the season.

1:17:25

We were two points ahead of Coventry

1:17:28

at the time. We had

1:17:30

all the... It was nervousness and stuff, but we had all

1:17:32

the baller. One of the goals actually

1:17:34

came. I've tried to head it into order. It was a bit

1:17:36

of a mix-up. Fucking Mickey Gray, fucking Miles

1:17:38

Lee. They've played it left, and they've gone and scored.

1:17:41

It was just all us, and we just couldn't score. In

1:17:43

the end, we found out Coventry had been big and spurs too.

1:17:46

We just went down. It was the most

1:17:49

biggest disappointment in my life. I was

1:17:51

devastated. Even being tall, I

1:17:53

think I sobbed for about three days.

1:17:55

Really? No, I just

1:17:57

couldn't believe that we'd gone down. because

1:18:00

again everybody there was my mates,

1:18:03

we had Joyus, everybody

1:18:06

running on the pitch and grabbing you and hugging you and all

1:18:08

mates, they've got photographs of us and with

1:18:10

mates I went from school, I've

1:18:12

met from Sunday League football and it was

1:18:14

just Joyus to being absolutely

1:18:18

gut wrenching

1:18:19

and if I could change that, that would be

1:18:21

the only game in my life I would wish

1:18:23

I could change. So I'm in the water up here,

1:18:25

isn't it? What were the Just

1:18:29

the passion that they have for the club? I

1:18:31

love it now, I'm there all the time, I work for the club,

1:18:33

I just sit next to Jim Montgomery,

1:18:36

I mean Jim's, you know, you hear Jim, and

1:18:38

the two of us are jumping up and down, when we score it, it's just,

1:18:40

it's crackers, you just think, just doesn't

1:18:42

leave you, that love for the club

1:18:44

just does not leave you, I just, you know,

1:18:46

I just love everything about Sunderland, I'm

1:18:49

Sunderland lad, I'm proud to be from Sunderland

1:18:52

and now I fucking love me Sunderland team because they're fucking

1:18:54

playing well now. Unbelievable, a hypothetical

1:18:56

question, you

1:18:58

do really well at Burnley, Newcastle

1:19:01

coming for you, what are

1:19:04

you signing?

1:19:05

I can cuddle my money, aye? It's

1:19:09

all about the money lad, it's all about the money.

1:19:13

Because

1:19:15

Ramis said no, didn't he? And

1:19:17

Fes said no the other way. Yeah.

1:19:20

Not a fucking chance, once I'm that like down the road.

1:19:23

It was from Burnley, there wasn't much in it anyway,

1:19:25

so they could have had a fucking crock as long as they troubled

1:19:28

me money. But as

1:19:30

a kid, I went from playing

1:19:32

for new, you know, trial games in

1:19:34

Newcastle and been there around Jeff Charlton

1:19:36

era, and Gaza was there and so forth, and

1:19:38

it was, yeah, it didn't fit

1:19:41

right with us, but I just wanted to play

1:19:43

football and I wanted to be a professional football and if

1:19:45

I'd have to be fucking Newcastle, I'd have to be Newcastle,

1:19:47

you know, that's just, you know, you just have to live

1:19:49

with that, I'd have to fucking move like you wouldn't

1:19:52

have. I

1:19:57

mean, I was Stephen Cliford in Newcastle.

1:19:59

as you all know and then he bought a house in

1:20:02

Sunland when he

1:20:03

got his better contract and

1:20:05

the fans found out and turned round with red

1:20:07

and white paint and paint his fucking grass red and white. How

1:20:10

did you find out? I

1:20:13

don't know how to find out. Definitely

1:20:15

was a mate but he moved shortly thereafter. We

1:20:17

just bought Sunland fans. He was more further

1:20:19

question. Again

1:20:23

we bought up and the toughest

1:20:25

one of the toughest councils in Sunland, do you

1:20:27

know what I mean? So

1:20:30

we bought up and me dad was mad Sunland fan

1:20:33

so this is what we were brought

1:20:35

up with. I mean he was a little bit more finicky.

1:20:37

He went for the best team. He liked a bit of

1:20:39

Spurs and stuff. He wasn't like me. I

1:20:42

mean I was proper

1:20:42

die yard but he was a Sunland. If

1:20:45

you asked him then, I did 10, 11, 12, he was in Newcastle,

1:20:47

I know you're saying fucking look.

1:20:51

Of course I'm not. What was the crap with the flood at Northampton? I

1:20:53

had done it just arrived. I had done a

1:20:55

fucking massive flood

1:20:58

but it was pretty bad. I remember all the pictures

1:21:00

where we were. I think it was a place called Far

1:21:03

Cotton which was neither river and it was

1:21:05

in a bit of a dip. I'm a fucking 10 foot

1:21:07

height. Training

1:21:09

called off. I know. I

1:21:11

cannot remember any of that. I didn't see a chance of getting

1:21:14

very cold off. Did you all your time at Northampton? I

1:21:16

did. There were some good lads. The

1:21:19

first season I went down again, rarely get it

1:21:22

but again I just said we had a bit of an influx of some

1:21:24

North East lads come and it just

1:21:27

made a difference.

1:21:28

Then the drinking scale

1:21:30

up and then we were. Everybody living in Northampton. Everybody's

1:21:33

living in Northampton. We are living in Northampton and

1:21:35

then Steve Howard came down and he was in the North and

1:21:37

we were just to

1:21:39

the disagreement of his parents.

1:21:42

He was just trying to keep away from me because

1:21:44

I had a fucking reputation then and they were like

1:21:47

but I was out drinking. I had lads crying

1:21:49

man because they didn't want to come out with us because I was

1:21:51

that far. Dragging them out.

1:21:54

Richard all used to hide under the bed. Anyone in the

1:21:56

hotel room he just wouldn't come out. I'm

1:22:00

not cold, I'm not cold. Never

1:22:02

a problem though, to

1:22:04

drinking.

1:22:04

Either was, there was a stage,

1:22:07

there was a stage where I was drinking

1:22:09

more steers apart from, yeah, thinking I was dating

1:22:11

Gordon apart from a Friday. Because I had a game

1:22:13

on the, on the side, but I was finishing training

1:22:15

and I was drinking.

1:22:17

So soon as I'd finished training, I was Tesco's

1:22:20

lived right next to Tesco. So I would be getting four

1:22:22

cans, two bottles of wine and I

1:22:24

was drinking up more steers. Because you just enjoyed

1:22:26

it. Oh.

1:22:28

Uh, I think a bit of lonesome.

1:22:30

I suppose obviously, you know, we're from your

1:22:32

family. I had a young family at the time. Uh,

1:22:35

things weren't great and they weren't

1:22:37

moving down. So I was going to be stuck by myself.

1:22:40

And, uh, and I, and

1:22:43

I suppose when I went out with the lads, I fucking

1:22:45

loved it. I loved that socializing

1:22:47

socializing. I love that social life. But

1:22:50

then what'd you drink on your own? Oh, I

1:22:52

mean, I never used to, but I started to drink

1:22:54

on my own when, uh, when I got to Northampton. I

1:22:57

don't know why, I don't know why I even started it off. But

1:22:59

again, I just maybe think I was as lonely

1:23:01

and I just thought I'll have a, I'll have a bottle of wine

1:23:03

and then the bottle of wine turned into two bottles of wine and

1:23:05

I'm thinking

1:23:07

coming from training, I just thought fancy

1:23:09

a couple of pints and I'll get a, I'll get some cans.

1:23:11

Just becomes a routine then. And then it becomes a routine.

1:23:14

But I mean, I was doing that maybe for

1:23:17

five months,

1:23:18

but then you start down and I snapped like that and I just, it

1:23:21

just, just stopped. I just went, were

1:23:23

you able to just do that? Just stop. Well,

1:23:25

I always like to sort of put the, the drinking in the house and

1:23:27

stuff. I was able to do that. And again, over, over

1:23:30

time that creeps in again and it creeps

1:23:32

out, the creeps in, creeps out. So yeah.

1:23:35

And where I'm at the minute, I'm

1:23:37

probably just in this managing

1:23:40

sort of situation at the minute.

1:23:42

After I've finished work on Friday, I'll have a few beers

1:23:44

and then on Saturday they'll have a few, but I didn't then enter drinking to

1:23:46

drink on a Sunday. But if it's a Sunday

1:23:49

under a way and I'm, yeah,

1:23:51

and I'm watching the stream, I'll

1:23:53

be sat in front of the telly and I'll have the cans and stuff. And

1:23:56

then I might pop out and have a few beers and stuff. So

1:23:58

more social than that every day. No,

1:24:00

the other dear things got rid of. And

1:24:02

what were you when you retired? But,

1:24:07

er... Did you ever... Did you see that? Obviously,

1:24:09

when people... Most people retired, they're like, rah,

1:24:11

gutted. But as you'll see,

1:24:14

getting to 32 was an actual bit

1:24:16

of a blessing, right? I've got to 32, I've

1:24:18

not done actually too bad.

1:24:20

To say you've been... Ripped off books. Yeah. A

1:24:22

bit... Both... So, the problem

1:24:24

I had is that

1:24:26

I was finished at 32, but I

1:24:28

didn't have a fucking pot of piss in. You

1:24:30

know, I didn't have any money. You

1:24:32

know, I'd always... Gone through

1:24:35

all these knee operations, I've

1:24:37

gone through with divorce. So, I just

1:24:39

didn't... I just... I had nothing. So, I needed

1:24:42

the player. I just needed the player. Even though I was

1:24:44

fucked. I mean, I was probably fucked. Is that the point

1:24:46

that it got to, that you just... You had to play

1:24:49

to survive? Had to play. So,

1:24:51

I had a word with Kevin Wilson at the

1:24:53

time. We just signed Gabi Adani. Always

1:24:55

signed Gabi Adani. Gary Bennett

1:24:57

rang us a couple of times to get us to Dalek to

1:25:00

come there. But I was just getting in with

1:25:02

a new loss in Northampton. So, I just thought, you

1:25:04

know what? Maybe I'll just

1:25:07

stay where I am. It looks like I've got a... I've got a... Like,

1:25:09

Kev's eye. So, after I'm paying the price, he

1:25:11

says, and Kev went, yeah, man, just came up to say

1:25:13

the chairman and we'll sort it out. I wanted to

1:25:15

say the chairman. The chairman's like, his name's

1:25:17

got the money. Gabi's got it all. He says, we've

1:25:19

spent the whole budget on fucking Gabi Adani. And

1:25:22

I didn't really get on with Gabi's, to be fair, when we first come.

1:25:25

I just thought he was a bit large. I mean,

1:25:27

we get on now, but he'll tell you now, I fucking

1:25:29

didn't use to... I didn't like him. Anyway, I went down to

1:25:31

the train and... I'd had my kit on. I was thinking I was

1:25:33

going at the train and I was watching the train and

1:25:35

then messing around and I could see him fucking around.

1:25:38

And I went... I had a word

1:25:40

with him. And Gabi's always used to stand up for

1:25:42

himself and said something about, fucking chased

1:25:44

him everywhere around that area. Chased

1:25:46

him and chased him and chased him. Fucking cum, cum, cum, cum.

1:25:50

I've had a cold, I've had a fucking killed him. I

1:25:52

think he ended up hiding in a cupboard

1:25:54

somewhere before I could get all of them. But...

1:25:57

You weren't its fault, really. No, okay. I just...

1:26:00

and then Nigel

1:26:03

Spink was doing the ballkeeping courses

1:26:05

at the time and Nigel went, come play

1:26:08

for me. I said where

1:26:11

do you have it? Anyway, I go to Forest Green

1:26:14

and I knew we played Millwood Green. I mean

1:26:16

I did not have Millwood Green in the preseason friendly

1:26:18

earlier. So I thought it was Birmingham. So

1:26:20

I said, that was in Northampton, it's only 45 minutes

1:26:23

and I went, yeah, that's fine.

1:26:25

He went, I

1:26:27

phoned a cut a week. I mean I was getting

1:26:29

again, I was getting 11, 1200 for, but I

1:26:31

just needed the money. So I just said, yep, that's

1:26:33

fine. So then, I sat

1:26:36

there. So then he rang us on Friday

1:26:39

to go down and play gear and

1:26:41

he went right, he said the directions, M5, M5,

1:26:44

that's the way the fuck I nearly attacked him and

1:26:46

I realized it was in Stroud and for me it was

1:26:48

like fucking two hours, 45 minutes in the

1:26:51

car. He thought you were standing for Millwood Green.

1:26:53

I was going to go to Forest Green. Fuck you now.

1:27:00

I can't help, now you're on maps like you're scrolling.

1:27:04

I just fucking, I

1:27:06

just get to the ground and I'm like, ah, fucking can

1:27:09

I move? Took me to the edges to warm

1:27:11

up and when I used to get back warm by the time I'd

1:27:13

cleared and got by, I used to pull in on the

1:27:15

street, I used to open my car

1:27:17

door, as wide as I could and virtually

1:27:20

throw myself onto the road and then

1:27:22

crumble off. I just couldn't get my legs out

1:27:24

of the car and I tried that for ages

1:27:26

and then I got... What's the

1:27:29

film? DiCaprio, where he's pissed up.

1:27:32

I'll pull all the shit out of it. I

1:27:35

was terrible. But I played a few games

1:27:38

for them and that went well. I enjoyed

1:27:40

it and then we played in the FA

1:27:42

Cup against Battlesfield and it was at that time, it

1:27:45

was the longest ever

1:27:47

penalty show down the FA Cup history. I've scored mine,

1:27:49

so that'll be enough. But then I got transferred.

1:27:52

It was a swap deal done and they had to get into

1:27:54

the making. But I went there as a player coach because I got

1:27:56

all my badges by this time because

1:27:58

I still won again. So I want

1:27:59

to keep going.

1:27:59

but I was doing, I was

1:28:02

playing a coach there.

1:28:03

Was it not something you

1:28:05

wanted to do, staying coaching? Always. Quinnie

1:28:08

got the job here and I asked

1:28:12

about that and I said, yeah, if I just

1:28:14

come up with stuff and it was like for the youth, it was like £17,000

1:28:16

a year. I

1:28:18

was like, oh, fucking £17,000 a year. Again,

1:28:22

if I was allowed to be playing and being

1:28:24

getting five and six grand a week, like some of

1:28:26

them were, you're alright. But that had

1:28:29

to be like a family. I still

1:28:31

had kids to pay for. It was just,

1:28:34

and then I wrote to all the football clubs to

1:28:36

say, this is what I'm doing. This is me

1:28:39

coaching budgets, be licensed,

1:28:41

going on for my year. Didn't

1:28:44

get one response. And then that's it. So

1:28:46

I just had to, then I ended up getting a job. And the only

1:28:48

thing I can do at the time I thought was, well, I

1:28:51

can talk and people seem to like the

1:28:53

accent when I'm down south. So I

1:28:55

just got under sales and I've been doing that ever since. It

1:28:57

is a bit of a monopoly in a

1:29:00

way,

1:29:00

the coaching side of things. Because

1:29:03

the money's, you never realise that the money

1:29:05

was that low

1:29:06

for coaching stuff going into

1:29:08

Premier League clubs. You do need money behind

1:29:11

you at that age to be able to afford

1:29:13

to do it, don't you? Let's just come to the ranks, unless

1:29:15

you're a young lad, you know, 19, 20, and that's what you want

1:29:17

to do. That's okay. But

1:29:19

I think you could have given opportunity to a 17, 18 year

1:29:21

old at a Premier League club. Well,

1:29:25

maybe coaching the sevens and the eights,

1:29:27

you know, and then maybe building yourself up

1:29:30

as a career, but not from where I

1:29:33

was. I just couldn't take that. Just

1:29:36

was heartbreaking as well. Because when

1:29:39

you went, come up, there's a job at

1:29:42

the academy. And I just thought, I

1:29:45

just can't do it. Can I do it?

1:29:48

So what did you do? I went into sales. I

1:29:50

cycled down to Bartlett Carden at the

1:29:52

time when I was in Northam. And I said, gives a job. And

1:29:55

I've been working in payments ever since. How

1:29:57

far was it on? Three miles. Three miles.

1:31:33

win

1:32:00

this competition, win that competition, be

1:32:02

the best at this and I've just done it ever since.

1:32:05

Can't get themselves by smashing people, look. I

1:32:08

can't be aggressive. It's massively

1:32:10

violent. It can just start...

1:32:13

It's subtly violent. Yeah,

1:32:16

subtly. Sign that fucking conjure.

1:32:19

We'll cause the deal. Massively violent. Well,

1:32:21

I've been quite close to that. I can pop around any time you

1:32:23

want. Sign the fucking

1:32:25

deal. And I suppose you'll... As

1:32:28

good as that song is, I don't think it'll ever leave,

1:32:31

so you'll always be etched in Sunderland's

1:32:33

history, because I think they'll still be thinking it in 20

1:32:35

years time. It is. You must

1:32:37

make you smile when you hear it. I love it. I love

1:32:39

it. I'm

1:32:42

not talking to my brother, but I

1:32:44

remember the time it was the first sign. I

1:32:46

remember warming up when I was warming up

1:32:49

with Mickey Greer and Brian Atkinson, and

1:32:51

I could see Mickey laughing. Because

1:32:53

I'd never heard it, and he went, have you not heard that? And it was

1:32:55

about fucking five or six lads. I

1:32:57

sang it, and I start laughing and applauded,

1:33:00

and all of a sudden five or six lads became... 50 lads

1:33:03

became... Yeah, 5,000 lads, and then

1:33:05

all of a sudden...

1:33:06

It just... It's playing out like

1:33:08

it's on internet YouTube. In

1:33:11

Chinese, people are singing it. I mean,

1:33:13

it's craggers. It is craggers. You must get

1:33:15

a few pints, Mark. Yeah, and everybody... And I just

1:33:17

say, I'm Lee Howie, and they look at us and they're

1:33:20

going, I'm Lee Howie, Lee

1:33:22

Howie, Lee Howie. No,

1:33:25

then, yeah. I've got

1:33:27

you to go, you know. But

1:33:31

I got introduced to the last game

1:33:33

we played when we played Southampton. This

1:33:35

guy stopped us, and he went, oh,

1:33:38

chunky, yarly, yow, yow, so far. And he's got

1:33:40

a kid, and he was manny about eight-year-old, and he fully

1:33:42

kitted out on the kit. And he went, you know, this is

1:33:44

son. And he's looking at me, I've got no... He's a l-b-l-b-l-ballygad

1:33:47

guy. He just went, that's Lee Howie.

1:33:49

His first one, and he went, yeah, the Lee

1:33:51

Howie. His first, just lit

1:33:53

up with like, he's just saying some

1:33:55

mystical-looking creature from somewhere. But

1:33:58

I just said, that's what happens. You

1:34:00

just I could be in the supermarket

1:34:02

and I can hear down the aisle Can

1:34:12

I get anywhere I'm telling you know we

1:34:14

finish a hog and the pub and I'm sure with

1:34:34

Your brother is a beep what

1:34:37

a story by the way I like that way

1:34:40

he openly admitted that he started that song

1:34:42

off yes

1:34:44

man yeah I set full credit for that there

1:34:48

is something I know I mention it in the episode

1:34:51

but they're just Sunderland Newcastle

1:34:53

fans it just I don't think met many other

1:34:55

places though Scotland yeah

1:34:58

what just that die-hard yeah

1:35:00

just like all the bothered about is the

1:35:02

football team exactly like McArthur

1:35:04

was when I used to travel away

1:35:07

I used to watch game Sunderland and Newcastle

1:35:09

fans I just absolutely

1:35:12

love it yeah fair play he

1:35:14

was a another old-school

1:35:17

swanie type character one I love

1:35:20

the football but also loved

1:35:22

the other side I

1:35:26

think we forget a lot of but

1:35:28

I reckon 80% of footballers were like

1:35:30

that back then that generation he and

1:35:33

that's the thing as long as everybody were doing it

1:35:36

yeah you know I've to disadvantage if everybody's twatted

1:35:38

three times a week yeah I mean it's

1:35:40

fine with Ghana ones but no they'll

1:35:42

level up for me I

1:35:43

don't put people if you're on paytreen you listen

1:35:46

robot

1:35:46

his was just straight

1:35:49

in the players lounge after the game yeah just

1:35:52

a given that they're gonna be out yeah the football

1:35:54

was an interference really yeah you

1:35:56

understand why a lot of lads got divorced in that guy

1:35:59

yeah you're like The

1:36:01

wives would only have so much of it, wouldn't they? Have you

1:36:03

ever been anywhere where they had a couple's day?

1:36:06

Like, every Sunday they just

1:36:08

go out with couples?

1:36:09

No, you. Never, never. But

1:36:12

it's weird, isn't it, really? But

1:36:14

the oaster? What happens now? I

1:36:16

reckon it used to happen. Yeah. About

1:36:19

when they once every six weeks. I'm sure they'd make it every

1:36:21

Sunday. Oh, no. Rip

1:36:24

your arse out with it, do you? One of them, we'd

1:36:26

best do it this Sunday, lads. Keep it sweet.

1:36:29

We took one off. We've had seven

1:36:31

arse on his own, lads. We'd best take him out next Sunday.

1:36:34

But he didn't really go into his relationship

1:36:37

with her, Steve, does he? No, I don't

1:36:39

think he wanted to, do you? No. It's

1:36:42

a bit well-known that they don't really get on anymore. Yeah.

1:36:46

But he didn't want to delve into that, so... Fair

1:36:48

enough, innit? As professional... Respectful.

1:36:52

Professional, respectful, pop-cast-horse,

1:36:54

we didn't dig. I didn't realise his

1:36:57

start, that his career was as cutthroat

1:36:59

as that. Belgium? But

1:37:02

retired, like, being retired twice. Yeah.

1:37:05

Can't be many that have done that. His name must be

1:37:07

knackered, man. Mm. Like,

1:37:11

to carry on playing once you've been retired at 20 odd. Did you...

1:37:14

It'd

1:37:14

be a good one for you to watch. Do you

1:37:16

know, there are 2003 Rugby World Cup winners.

1:37:19

Yeah. They go into a prison and organise

1:37:21

games. Why would you look for beat-up watches? The cheetahs,

1:37:24

you think, come do it? Yeah, but it's just a

1:37:26

good one. They all go for a pint

1:37:28

after and they're just like... I think

1:37:30

Johnny Wilkinson was saying that was my

1:37:33

peak, and after that I was just struggling to

1:37:35

find a... Basically,

1:37:37

you know, like, when Ty Sifuri won the World title, he

1:37:40

just had no... They drop off. Yeah. Why

1:37:43

do they go to a prison, though? Just like a TV show, so they'll go

1:37:45

and try and get them back

1:37:47

on the straight and narrow. They make

1:37:50

a rugby team in prison, like... Yeah,

1:37:52

so they coach them and put a team together, and that

1:37:54

would be viewed when they leave to join an amateur

1:37:56

rugby club, and it's really good. I

1:37:59

thought you meant the... He was like a

1:38:01

fly on the wall and he just took up rugby team in prison.

1:38:04

No, so they go in and they coach

1:38:06

the prisoners. Me and

1:38:09

she. There was Ben Coen saying,

1:38:13

he nearly died, I don't know exactly

1:38:15

the full story. The phone, nobody

1:38:17

rang us. But I blame myself

1:38:20

as much as anybody because I didn't pick up the phone to anybody

1:38:22

either. You know, before that. I

1:38:25

suppose when you hit them heights, there's

1:38:27

only one winning the World Cup. Proper.

1:38:30

There's only one way, isn't there? Yeah,

1:38:33

you see I'm still finding myself, still

1:38:36

working out what I want to do and this and that and it's like 20 years

1:38:39

later. And you've

1:38:41

committed your life 93, 30 years. Oh

1:38:44

sorry, I thought you said 1993. I knew you weren't listening.

1:38:48

I fucking watched you, I feel like I'm getting up at about 6 in

1:38:50

the morning to get you to watch it. I

1:38:52

tell you what, Harry's loving Germany, ain't he? Doing

1:38:55

well, isn't he? He's impressed. He's embraced

1:38:57

it. And people say, you know, why's he gone there?

1:38:59

I was looking at him now. To be

1:39:01

fair though, it's a

1:39:04

bit fucking ironic that as soon as he leaves, Tottenham

1:39:06

are top at league. I know. It's

1:39:08

like unbelievable, isn't it? Imagine if they go and win the league. What

1:39:11

are you holding them back? How

1:39:14

does 30 goals a season we're holding them back? I'm

1:39:17

sure we've had the same conversation every year before they

1:39:20

drop off. Did you see Gary

1:39:22

O'Neill on Monday Night Football?

1:39:24

Yeah. I thought he was really good,

1:39:26

but I couldn't stop looking at his hand movements.

1:39:29

What was it? Excessive. Too

1:39:32

much. It must be a manager. Smooth

1:39:34

or like a... No,

1:39:36

just everything. To be fair though,

1:39:39

when I'm doing my half his innards, my hands,

1:39:41

it's not holding the microphone, it's all

1:39:44

of its shot. I want you to watch it

1:39:46

and see whether you think it's too much. I can't think of it as

1:39:48

I've seen it. Well, he comes

1:39:50

across really good. Really? What's

1:39:52

your hand doing during you? I

1:39:54

just know it's moving a lot. One of them. Yeah,

1:39:57

so if I do it without a microphone... A politician.

1:40:00

If we had to imagine, I'd conduct an orchestra.

1:40:03

Laugh! Laugh! Laugh!

1:40:06

Laugh! Laugh! Well

1:40:08

I want Bob to go down. The

1:40:11

way he got poppered like that. You

1:40:14

can book me for half a dinner by the way. Wait a minute Chris.

1:40:17

You can book me for half a dinner by the way. I'm

1:40:19

not mentioning it for a while so if you would like

1:40:21

to book me for an after dinner. Have it in your works. Shall we

1:40:23

start charging him for advertising? Advertising?

1:40:26

I think we probably have. I'd love for a cast. Laugh!

1:40:29

Laugh! Yes, if you want to book

1:40:31

me for sale if anybody's interested. On that,

1:40:35

you've kindly said that when we get 100,000 subscribers

1:40:38

you'll take us for now. You can eat Chinese. Team,

1:40:40

all you can eat Chinese. I'll take your phone, no problem.

1:40:43

How far short are we?

1:40:44

We're

1:40:47

mentioning the intro and we'll mention

1:40:49

properly now. Yeah,

1:40:52

we'll do football shit. Brand

1:40:55

new football

1:40:55

shit. Of their choice? Of their choice for

1:40:57

any subscribers because when I get to that 100,000

1:40:59

mark, 1,500 off. So

1:41:02

if you subscribe, if you haven't already, we're

1:41:04

going to pick a subscriber and

1:41:05

we'll send you shit. Bit

1:41:07

of a competition. Can we pick the restaurant

1:41:09

as well? Yeah, of course a new one. Not the room for

1:41:11

fucking secondhand. No, a new subscriber,

1:41:14

not a... No, if you're already subscribed

1:41:16

as well. Thing is, it's as if people are watching

1:41:18

these episodes and purposely not subscribing because

1:41:21

I checked the thingy, the start. 26% of

1:41:23

people watching our episodes now. They're

1:41:26

not subscribing. Yeah, no, are subscribing.

1:41:29

I'll tell you what, we'll

1:41:31

give two shits away. We'll

1:41:34

give one for previous

1:41:36

subscribers but then one for

1:41:39

new subscribers between now and next week. Yeah.

1:41:42

Yeah. Big shout Chris. So if you've not

1:41:44

subscribed, if you've subscribed before

1:41:46

the next episode, there's a chance of winning that

1:41:48

shit. And if we know somebody at the club,

1:41:50

we'll try and get it signed.

1:41:52

Ooh.

1:41:53

Live shows, Chris, eh? Oh, live shows, what have we got coming

1:41:55

up? We've got Nottingham, Barnsley, Norwich.

1:41:58

I think Barnsley sold out, is it? No,

1:42:00

I think we're about 30 to go. Alright,

1:42:02

Barns are next week. Then,

1:42:05

like you said... Nottingham on the 17th and

1:42:07

Norwich on the 24th. Get yourself down,

1:42:10

if you can. You and Robert, Alan Rodgers,

1:42:12

Dean Windas. I feel like we're too relaxed

1:42:14

today, me. It's the sofa.

1:42:17

Is that what it is? We need a bit

1:42:19

of... bit of ump. A bit of summat. Yeah, book

1:42:21

ideas up. I'm fine, me, love. I'm

1:42:24

with Ollie tomorrow. Oh yeah, enjoy

1:42:26

all of that. Thanks. I'll be on it when this

1:42:28

comes out. You shaved your back. Try

1:42:31

it. I've shaved

1:42:33

it on the last one, if I need to reshape

1:42:35

it. In fact, get that man's back. Get

1:42:37

yourself on this table, yeah? Mm-hmm.

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