0:42

Thanks for joining us

0:42

here yet again. And today we are

0:46

joined by a very special guest,

0:46

Joe McDonough. He's the founder

0:50

of the be positive Foundation.

0:50

And I'm going to, to we have a

0:54

little bit of a limited time

0:54

today. So I'm just going to go

0:58

ahead and hand the mic over to

0:58

Joe. And I'm going to let him

1:03

tell you a little bit about his

1:03

story. And in what has brought

1:07

about the be positive

1:07

foundation, so that to be

1:10

positive foundation is is a

1:10

great organization that helps

1:14

out families who have children

1:14

who are suffering from various

1:18

types of cancers that correct,

1:18

Joe. That's right. And and that

1:23

that organization was inspired

1:23

as a result of your own Andrew

1:27

losing his battle with cancer.

1:27

I'd have to correct you there.

1:31

My son didn't lose his battle.

1:31

He didn't lose anything. My son

1:35

died from cancer, but he didn't

1:35

lose his battle. Very good.

1:39

Thank you for correcting me on

1:39

that. And I love the positive

1:43

focus. It's very inspiring

1:43

story. So I'm just going to go

1:47

ahead and let you tell it. Sure.

1:47

So I never thought I would have

1:52

this story. Back in 2007. I had

1:52

the perfect life. My wife and I

1:56

have two children. At the time

1:56

they were junior in high school

2:00

and a freshman in high school.

2:00

Our daughter Allie was a junior

2:05

and Andrew was a freshman. And

2:05

the last week in January was a

2:09

pretty typical week in our

2:09

house. Andrew went skiing on the

2:13

day off from school on Monday.

2:13

On Tuesdays and Thursdays he had

2:17

personal training sessions. My

2:17

son was an elite athlete, and he

2:22

played soccer and baseball

2:22

around the country. Friday at

2:25

his high school dance. Saturday,

2:25

he helped his travel soccer team

2:30

win a Pennsylvania State

2:30

Championship. It was a pretty

2:34

typical week in our house on a

2:34

three and a half hour ride home.

2:38

I'll never forget sitting there

2:38

in the car and my 14 year old

2:42

son is giving me parenting tips

2:42

on his 16 year old sister. It

2:46

was just amazing. It was good

2:46

advice. My son wasn't just my

2:50

son he truly was, was one of my

2:50

best friends. He just kind of

2:55

completed me. And the next day

2:55

he was a little bit under the

2:59

weather. And then early the

2:59

early hours of Monday morning.

3:03

He came into our room and said

3:03

he was going to get sick. He's

3:07

going to it says it's going to

3:07

make me feel better. We thought

3:11

he had the flu. It was late

3:11

January. So the next morning, I

3:15

woke up to go to work. I gave

3:15

him a kiss. I told him I loved

3:19

him. And I gave him a Diet

3:19

Sprite to settle his stomach. I

3:23

went off to work thinking, you

3:23

know, not a big deal. Andrew has

3:28

the flu. I feel bad, of course.

3:28

So my wife Chris. Fortunately,

3:32

he stayed home from work that

3:32

day and took a gander to the

3:36

pediatrician. pediatricians

3:36

office was so crowded. And she

3:40

says I'm just going to take them

3:40

over to AI Dupont, which is the

3:44

Children's Hospital adjacent to

3:44

where we live. And she before

3:49

she got off the phone, she said

3:49

where's your appendix knowing I

3:53

had mine taken out. And I

3:53

explained to her that your lower

3:57

right side she said that's where

3:57

Andrew is complaining of pain.

4:01

So as odd as this may sound, I

4:01

thought it was kind of cool that

4:06

my dad had his appendix taken

4:06

out at about that age. I had

4:10

mine taken out and now my

4:10

boyfriend was going to as well.

4:14

There's no genetic connection,

4:14

but it was just a nice thread

4:18

between three generations carry

4:18

carrying on the tradition. Yeah,

4:22

you know, an odd tradition but

4:22

carry and so I worked at

4:26

JPMorgan Chase and I told my co

4:26

workers to chase, I'm going to

4:30

be gone for a few hours my son's

4:30

going to have an appendectomy.

4:35

Nowadays, an appendectomy is

4:35

really not that big of a deal.

4:39

And so during the five to 10

4:39

minute drive from my office to

4:43

the hospital, my biggest worry,

4:43

and this will give you an idea

4:47

of how far off we were. I was

4:47

was with Andrew well enough to

4:51

play in a soccer tournament in

4:51

Jacksonville, Florida, three

4:55

weeks like that was that was the

4:55

magnitude of my concern.

5:01

As I got over to the hospital, I

5:01

saw just how much pain and it

5:05

was in an Android a very high

5:05

threshold for pain. So this

5:09

really worried hours went on and

5:09

they're trying to figure out

5:12

what's going on. And finally

5:12

they pulled Chris and I aside

5:16

and they took us to another room

5:16

and they introduced us to an

5:19

oncologist and I knew what that

5:19

meant. Sure. oncologist is a

5:24

cancer doctor and they explained

5:24

to us that Andrew had leukemia.

5:28

How is this possible? This is a

5:28

boy who would not eat a hot dog

5:33

because A soccer coach when he

5:33

was nine years old. I told him,

5:36

it's not good for you. You

5:36

worked out all the time. And I

5:39

knew that kids out there

5:39

somewhere get cancer. But if I'm

5:45

being perfectly honest, I would

5:45

tell you, I thought they were

5:48

sickly kids, you know, not kids

5:48

like Andrew, who were the

5:52

picture of health. So I broke

5:52

the news to Andrew, which was

5:57

just brutal. He took it so well.

5:57

And then I raced home, five

6:04

minutes away to break the news

6:04

to his, his protector, his big

6:08

sister, Allie. And that was just

6:08

devastating. And I also was home

6:13

to pack a bag because they told us we're going to be in a hospital for a long time. It is

6:15

not unusual for protocol for a

6:20

child with cancer, for leukemia,

6:20

to be in the hospital, in parts

6:25

over two to three years, not

6:25

continuously. Sure. And so while

6:31

I'm home, my wife Chris calls me

6:31

and says you got to get back

6:35

here. And I was puzzled because

6:35

this wasn't supposed to be like

6:39

an emergent situation. So we

6:39

race back, and we catch up with

6:44

Andrew as they really come down

6:44

to the ICU, which in the

6:47

children's hospitals called the

6:47

PICU pediatric intensive care

6:50

unit. It turns out Andrew was

6:50

going into septic shock, which

6:55

is like an infection bomb going

6:55

off in your body. And they

6:59

rushed him into the PICU got him

6:59

situated. And Chris and Allie

7:03

and I was standing around

7:03

Andrew, when the unthinkable

7:07

just happened. As if a diagnosis

7:07

of leukemia wasn't unthinkable

7:12

enough, and septic shock. We

7:12

watched our son, our brother go

7:20

into cardiac arrest. As hard to

7:20

die, he code Wow. The life just

7:25

left his body. And they pushed

7:25

us out of the room. And we

7:29

watched everything unfold

7:29

through these tiny little panels

7:32

of glass in his picchi room. And

7:32

it's a violent looking thing to

7:37

see your child being

7:37

resuscitated. It's different

7:40

than you see on TV. And every

7:40

time the door would open as a

7:44

Rushmore equipment or people

7:44

through. We would literally

7:48

scream to Andrew, begging him to

7:48

keep fighting, because I knew if

7:52

you heard my voice, he would dig

7:52

a little deeper. I think Chris

7:56

thought that and Allie thought

7:56

that. And sure enough, I don't

8:00

know whether it was Andrew's

8:00

courage, the effort of the

8:03

caregivers, the grace of God, a

8:03

combination of everything.

8:08

Andrews heart was restarted. And

8:08

the doctor pulled us aside into

8:12

another room. And I'm not sure

8:12

why I asked this because I knew

8:16

he's Andrew easy. He's gonna be

8:16

okay. I said is my son going to

8:19

be okay? He looked me in the

8:19

eyes. He said your son will not

8:25

live through the night. Ah. I

8:25

was floored and I kind of got my

8:31

backup and I said only God and

8:31

Andrew knows. Andrew lived

8:35

through that night. Let me tell

8:35

you, Andrew went to the hospital

8:38

that day, Teifi 10 inches tall,

8:38

135 pounds. By the time that day

8:44

was over. My son was five feet

8:44

10 inches tall. 200 pounds. My

8:51

son's body weight went up 50%

8:51

from the fluid. Oh my god, we

8:55

didn't help him to keep his

8:55

blood pressure up to keep him

8:58

alive. Think about your body

8:58

weight and take it up. 50%

9:03

barely recognizable. Most kids

9:03

with cancer go in and out of the

9:07

hospital. Andrew never left the

9:07

hospital. Over the next 166 What

9:13

we call bonus days, my son had

9:13

almost 50 surgical procedures.

9:19

Andrew had four strokes. We put

9:19

Andrew on a helicopter and

9:23

airlifted him to Jefferson

9:23

Hospital Philadelphia

9:26

for a brain aneurysm. At best.

9:26

Andrew is down to 22 medicines

9:32

going into his body a day. Wow,

9:32

four times. Four times they told

9:37

us your son is not going to live

9:37

for the day. My world and I

9:42

speak for Chris as well. Our

9:42

world is is our kids. I didn't

9:47

care what kind of car I drove or

9:47

how big my TV was or, or any of

9:53

that kind of stuff. It's nice,

9:53

but it's not important. A world

9:59

revolved around Allion Andrew

9:59

and it was just heartbreaking

10:05

when you like to control things

10:05

and you realize how little you

10:09

control. Two weeks before we

10:09

went in the hospital. Andrew

10:12

said to me Dad, what's my blood

10:12

type? And I didn't know and I

10:15

felt bad. And too, we found out

10:15

Andrews blood type was be

10:21

positive. And anyone watching

10:21

this there is no connection

10:27

between the positive blood and

10:27

in childhood cancer or any kind

10:32

of cancer. Yeah, but That was

10:32

just the way my son LED. So on

10:36

day two, Allie started drawing

10:36

posters, and she put them on the

10:39

door of the hospital room, don't

10:39

come into this room, unless

10:42

you're going to be positive. So

10:42

it was kind of her idea. She was

10:47

inspired by that. And we took

10:47

pictures, like this pictures of

10:52

healthy Andrew. And we tape them

10:52

to the bed railing. Because we

10:58

wanted all the caregivers to

10:58

realize this is the guy you're

11:01

fighting for. Yes, the one in

11:01

the bed is our son and brother,

11:05

and he might not have hair and

11:05

he might have lines going into

11:07

his head. But this is our

11:07

healthy Andrew and we came in

11:11

here a family for and we're

11:11

going to leave a family of four.

11:14

And on day 165 Andrew had his

11:14

fourth stroke. And every single

11:20

day up until that we believed

11:20

this was going to turn out maybe

11:24

he's gonna be banged up a little

11:24

bit, but this was going to turn

11:26

out the way we want and we bring

11:26

it we're bringing our boy home.

11:31

That day was his fourth stroke.

11:31

And the doctors told us that

11:36

Andrew had less than 48 hours to

11:36

live. I can't explain why. But

11:41

it was that day that we

11:41

acknowledged not accepted, but

11:45

acknowledged that this may not

11:45

end the way we want it to. The

11:50

next day was my birthday. And

11:50

Chris Nalli will tell you that

11:54

Andrew stay alive so as not to

11:54

die on my birthday. No, the

11:58

following day is July 14. And I

11:58

will never forget September

12:05

3 1982 in Montclair, New Jersey,

12:05

my family became complete. I

12:11

watched my son take his first

12:11

breath, a gift that so many

12:17

parents have seen and hopefully

12:17

cherish what I saw at 1:55pm on

12:23

the 14th of July 2007,

12:23

Wilmington Delaware was

12:28

something No parent should ever

12:28

see. Yeah. And that's I watched

12:32

my son take his last breath in

12:32

the arms of his 16 year old

12:37

sister. Our family will never be

12:37

the same. This is now 14 years

12:44

ago, it feels like a couple of

12:44

weeks ago that we're in. Right

12:48

now it is you learn a way to

12:48

cope. I don't think time heals

12:54

all wounds. But it gives us a

12:54

time to learn how to cope. I

12:58

miss my son tremendously. I

12:58

wonder about

13:03

would you be married now? Do you

13:03

have a girlfriend or boyfriend?

13:06

Would you be playing sports?

13:06

Would you be working? What would

13:09

his life look like? I missed the

13:09

little things of just watching a

13:13

baseball game with him having to

13:13

catch with him shooting pool.

13:17

Those are the things I miss and,

13:17

and I start and finish every day

13:23

in Andrews room when I'm home.

13:23

Fortunately, I have

13:27

opportunities that take me away

13:27

from home. Unfortunately,

13:32

sometimes and that is to speak

13:32

about childhood cancer in the

13:35

anti McDonogh be positive

13:35

foundation because when Andrew

13:39

went to heaven, because of the

13:39

support of my wife and daughter,

13:42

I left my career at JPMorgan

13:42

Chase. And we started the end of

13:49

McDonogh be positive foundation

13:49

because we were so blessed with

13:52

support. When we're in the

13:52

hospital, so many families are

13:55

not so fortunate. Yeah, we were

13:55

in our mid 40s. We had graduate

13:59

degrees. English is our first

13:59

language. We allow more money

14:02

banked up. And I saw families

14:02

like a family that was three

14:07

doors down in the PICU. English

14:07

was not their first language.

14:11

They were in their mid 20s. And

14:11

I just couldn't imagine how they

14:15

could process everything that

14:15

they were hearing. Yeah, so we

14:19

reached out to families of kids

14:19

with cancer. And now I'm proud

14:24

to say because of a lot of the

14:24

efforts of young people, a lot

14:27

of college students and high

14:27

school students. Andrew McDonald

14:30

be positive foundation is the

14:30

largest provider of financial

14:33

assistance to families of kids

14:33

with cancer in the entire United

14:37

States. That's amazing. So you

14:37

know not to bore you but when a

14:41

child has cancer, oftentimes

14:41

it's Mom, when it's a two income

14:45

family with a one income family,

14:45

it's even more challenging. But

14:50

let's say mom goes to hospital

14:50

income goes down bills go up the

14:54

child's fighting for his or her

14:54

life. And now you get an

14:56

eviction order or a shutoff

14:56

notice on utility can't pay for

15:01

the car truck to be fixed. You

15:01

can't buy the medicine that the

15:04

doctor needs said you need. But

15:04

if the insurance company won't

15:07

cover, so that's what the B

15:07

positive Foundation does. We

15:11

fund research globally, and we

15:11

help families of kids with

15:15

cancer all in in my son's name.

15:15

It's not going to bring Andrew

15:20

back. My heartbreaks each and

15:20

every day. I wear a cross that

15:26

was his I keep his pack his

15:26

picture in my pocket every day.

15:30

Childhood Cancer stole my son

15:30

from us, just like it does 49

15:35

kids each week to four

15:35

classrooms, kids, taken from

15:39

their families, 46 kids

15:39

diagnosed each day, it's just,

15:43

it's brutal. It is it is. And

15:43

it's, it's very inspiring that

15:47

you have, you know, turn such,

15:47

I'd say a tragedy into something

15:56

positive, and in a way to help

15:56

other people. It's, it's, it's

16:00

completely changed the

16:00

trajectory of your life and the

16:05

lives of your family clearly,

16:05

and, and I commend you for doing

16:10

such a wonderful thing. And to

16:10

to be present enough, while you

16:15

were there in the hospital,

16:15

going through what you are going

16:17

through personally, to notice

16:17

and acknowledge such hardship

16:24

that other people were going

16:24

through, you know, and that's

16:27

that in and of itself, that you

16:27

were there and present to, to

16:30

see that and to acknowledge it

16:30

and to take it, take it in

16:35

enough that you decided you

16:35

wanted to do something about it.

16:39

You know, thank you. That's,

16:39

that's wonderful. Wow. What I'm

16:46

in the research side of things,

16:46

what is it that that we are

16:53

learning I say we, as a as a

16:53

human community, cancer is so

16:59

prevalent, and I'm a cancer

16:59

survivor, myself, and childhood

17:05

cancer, particularly. And here's

17:05

why I asked because of stories

17:10

like yours, because it's not the

17:10

sickly kids always. It's

17:16

sometimes it's kids, just like

17:16

Andrew, who are, seem to be the

17:23

picture of health and vitality.

17:23

And almost instantly, we learned

17:31

that that's not the case. What

17:31

do you think is happening there?

17:34

What's causing that? Well, you

17:34

know, that I can't tell you how

17:39

many millions of time so I've

17:39

thought about that, for the last

17:43

14 years. Why did Andrew get sick? We even

17:45

looked at, you know, there's

17:51

epidemiology the causes, and,

17:51

and we looked at things when I

17:56

say looked at research, things

17:56

like crumb rubber, which is the

18:00

little rubber pieces that are in

18:00

sports fields, which is either a

18:06

really great thing or a really

18:06

bad thing. And I'm not sure

18:09

which it is to be very honest.

18:09

It's a really great thing. If

18:11

we're taking tires out of

18:11

landfills. And having a 12 month

18:17

field, it's a really bad thing,

18:17

if the benzene from that rubber

18:21

is being ingested and making

18:21

kids sick. But now, my son

18:27

played a lot of time on soccer

18:27

fields. None of his friends got

18:31

sick. No, you know, so it's very

18:31

difficult to say, you know, we

18:35

we live in an area where, you

18:35

know, there's a refinery here or

18:41

a manufacturing facility here.

18:41

Is it something in the air? Is

18:45

it something in the water, it's

18:45

so very difficult to track that

18:50

down. Because of our own unique

18:50

biology. You know, that one of

18:56

us can react a certain way. And

18:56

there's this mutation, that it

19:00

doesn't happen to the next 19

19:00

guys next to you. So it's really

19:05

difficult. I would love to have

19:05

a better understanding on

19:11

prevention in epidemiology. For

19:11

the most part, the research is

19:16

focused on the treatment. Right,

19:16

so it's after the cancer has

19:22

happened. Now, one of the things

19:22

I will tell you a good news and

19:25

bad news statistic. The good

19:25

news is because of all the

19:29

research in the childhood cancer

19:29

community, survival rates are up

19:34

significantly for most cancers.

19:34

There are good news, one type of

19:41

brain cancer, di PG and children

19:41

on the brainstem, which has

19:46

virtually a 0% survival rate. So

19:46

not all, but most a leukemia,

19:51

for example, when I was a child

19:51

leukemia would have a 15%

19:55

survival rate, a ll leukemia,

19:55

the most common type today, that

19:59

rate is 90%. Wow. So I just

19:59

shared with you the good news.

20:05

The bad news to you're kind of

20:05

goes to your question. The

20:09

incidence rate of childhood

20:09

cancer has gone up

20:13

significantly. Yeah, more kids

20:13

are getting cancer today on a

20:17

percentage basis, and 2030 4050

20:17

years ago. Why is that? Is it

20:23

air water? Is it you know, you

20:23

put deodorant under your arms

20:29

and there's 90 chemicals in it?

20:29

Is it something we eat? Is it

20:34

hormones? I don't know, I, I'm

20:34

not smart enough to know that

20:39

answer. But I do know facts and

20:39

the facts is, are that there's a

20:44

greater incidence of childhood

20:44

cancer. And that's very

20:48

disturbing. Now, one thing that

20:48

I will tell you is also good

20:52

news is, childhood cancer has

20:52

been traditionally very

20:55

underfunded in research, for one

20:55

reason, there are many reasons,

21:01

but one of the reasons is

21:01

historically, there hasn't been

21:07

private research efforts,

21:07

meaning industry,

21:11

pharmaceuticals, because

21:11

childhood cancer is considered a

21:14

rare disease, there are less

21:14

children getting it then

21:17

prostate cancer, for example. So

21:17

there's less chance for a

21:21

pharmaceutical company to make

21:21

money. And I'm not and believe

21:26

it or not, I'm not faulting

21:26

those pharmaceutical companies,

21:29

because I come from a for profit

21:29

background. And I know they have

21:34

to make money. Sure, but but

21:34

there are solutions around that.

21:38

So the other part of funding has

21:38

been the government. And

21:42

historically, the government was

21:42

not spending a lot of money on

21:46

childhood cancer, it was mostly

21:46

on adult cancer. And some of the

21:50

big cancer organizations, I

21:50

won't mention names, but are

21:55

very quick to put a picture of a

21:55

bald headed child on a brochure,

22:00

but not much in the money goes

22:00

to childhood cancer. But I will

22:04

tell you that things are

22:04

starting to change, less, so I'm

22:07

not going to address the big

22:07

cancer organizations. But more

22:11

government funding is coming to

22:11

kids. There's something called

22:14

the Star Act, which which is

22:14

gaining increased funding for

22:19

childhood cancer that has been

22:19

worked on by the be positive

22:22

foundation in many childhood

22:22

cancer community organizations.

22:26

And it also one of the very few

22:26

rare bipartisan efforts in

22:30

Washington. And on the industry

22:30

side, whether by carrot or stick

22:38

industry is becoming a little

22:38

bit more involved in childhood

22:41

cancer research, there is an act passed by the government

22:44

called the race act. And what

22:47

that says is basically, if there

22:47

is a mechanism of action or

22:53

molecular target of say, lung

22:53

cancer, that could potentially

22:58

also be in osteosarcoma, and

22:58

kids, that company needs to

23:03

chase that down in pediatric

23:03

trials as well. And so, you

23:08

know, we've moved on from a

23:08

world where 50 years ago, the

23:14

bone cancer doctor never talked

23:14

to the lung cancer doctor never

23:18

talked to the brain. And now

23:18

things have kind of moved a

23:22

little more molecularly a little

23:22

more to towards mechanism of

23:26

action. And we were starting to

23:26

see that there might be a drug

23:33

that didn't work real well, in a

23:33

certain small cell lung cancer,

23:39

but it's working pretty well, in

23:39

neuroblastoma, and kids. Mm hmm.

23:44

And so that that, to me, gives

23:44

me hope. Because it might be and

23:50

I'm gonna be very simplistic,

23:50

but if you picture a shelf, and

23:54

on that shelf are all the drugs

23:54

the FDA has approved. So so all

23:58

that work has been done, they've

23:58

gotten the green light. Some of

24:04

those drugs out there might have

24:04

different off label benefits for

24:09

another type of cancer. Sure,

24:09

because Because to get to get

24:13

the FDA approval, that has to be

24:13

first a very specific purpose,

24:18

correct? Yes, it's also a very

24:18

importantly, a very long process

24:25

to get approval, especially when

24:25

you're talking about childhood

24:29

cancer, childhood cancer, God

24:29

because right or wrong, the

24:34

government and industry and our

24:34

society will move a lot slower,

24:39

a lot more cautiously. Because

24:39

nobody wants to see an adverse

24:46

outcome on a child. Right,

24:46

versus an adult when it when

24:51

ironically, it's the families

24:51

like us in the childhood cancer

24:55

community who are clamoring.

24:55

Let's get these trials going

24:59

with the kids. Yeah. I think,

24:59

yeah, I personally, I would love

25:07

to see more funding. I mean,

25:07

obviously, treatment has to be a

25:12

focus because there are kids who

25:12

are sick, right, and there are

25:14

people who are sick. But I think

25:14

if we if we focused more on why,

25:21

why the numbers are going up.

25:21

You know why? Why is there

25:24

significantly more occurrences

25:24

of childhood cancer now than

25:29

there were 20 years ago? What's

25:29

happening, what's different if

25:34

we looked at that and spent some

25:34

time and effort and money

25:36

looking at that, you know, it's

25:36

not even prevention is the

25:42

preferential outcome, then then

25:42

treatment, obviously, in any

25:47

case, but you know, there has to

25:47

be there has to be a balance

25:51

there, you know, to to help the

25:51

people that are that are sick

25:55

now to help the kids that are

25:55

sick now and prevent it from

25:58

happening and those numbers from

25:58

going up in the future. Right.

26:01

And just so that in case

26:01

someone's thinking that, well,

26:05

there's more incidents now,

26:05

because because of surveillance,

26:09

we're catching up more often,

26:09

that's really not the case. You

26:13

know, I agree, when you're

26:13

talking about skin cancer,

26:18

increased surveillance, yes, you

26:18

might catch more cancer, and so

26:22

your incidence rate ticks up.

26:22

But when you're talking about a

26:26

child getting leukemia or a

26:26

child with a brain tumor, it's

26:29

not a surveillance issue, that,

26:29

Oh, we didn't know the child had

26:32

a brain tumor yesterday, and now

26:32

we're due and so the incidence

26:35

rate is up. So your point is

26:35

very, very well taken. And

26:40

there's, there's a whole lot of

26:40

work being done, trying to

26:46

figure out, you know, why some

26:46

of these things are happening,

26:51

you know, cancer, and our bodies

26:51

are much more complicated than

26:58

people think, you know, people

26:58

say, okay, like, you go after

27:01

cancer, and a little bit, if you

27:01

think about COVID, right now,

27:05

you know, things mutate. And

27:05

that cancer cells are kind of

27:10

like that, as well, you, you

27:10

attack them, you capture them,

27:14

and they mutate, and they get

27:14

around, they're very smart. And

27:18

but and we're also learning

27:18

that,

27:22

you know, we have, you know,

27:22

even if I had a twin brother, we

27:29

would have unique code to us,

27:29

you know, and, and, and that's

27:35

why it makes it really hard to

27:35

explain, why does Person A get

27:39

it, and person B, C, and D

27:39

don't. And that's really tricky.

27:44

One of the things which I think

27:44

is really, really interesting,

27:48

that you might be intrigued by

27:48

is the research in the world of

27:53

immunotherapy. So, immunotherapy

27:53

is basically using our body to

28:01

fight the cancer. You know, if

28:01

you think about it, my wife was

28:05

diagnosed with breast cancer a

28:05

few years after Andrew died. And

28:09

we take chemotherapy, which

28:09

right now is the best thing we

28:12

have. I'm not, I'm not, you

28:12

know, getting down on it. And we

28:17

put this indiscriminate poison

28:17

into my wife's body, and it

28:23

kills good and bad cells. And 50

28:23

years from now, people are gonna

28:27

shake their head and say, You

28:27

didn't wipe, right. You you, you

28:32

know, you went after something

28:32

with a sledge hammer and it was

28:36

this big. That's what we have.

28:36

Immunotherapy takes, we all have

28:40

T cells, and it reprograms and

28:40

I'm being very simplistic, yes,

28:45

reprogram that T cells to fight

28:45

that foreign agent that cancer.

28:52

And it could be instead of

28:52

chemo, or maybe in complement

28:58

that chemo, but less chemo

28:58

because here's the thing that if

29:02

you think about it, when my wife

29:02

was diagnosed, and I don't know

29:06

how old you were, but my wife

29:06

was an adult. She was, you know,

29:10

her body was fully developed.

29:10

When my son got chemo is 14

29:16

years old. When some of our kids

29:16

get chemo, they're two years

29:19

old, four years old, six years

29:19

old. The impact of this toxic

29:25

chemo to a developing body will

29:25

spell long term what is

29:31

officially called late stage

29:31

side effects for decades,

29:36

infertility, hearing vision,

29:36

cognitive issues, a secondary

29:42

cancers. If you think about a

29:42

little tiny tree, in a big

29:47

gigantic redwood, you threw

29:47

through a cup of poison on the

29:50

big redwood. It's not going to

29:50

have that big of an impact. You

29:54

throw that cup of poison on a

29:54

little sapling. It's gonna be

29:59

devastating to chance. Right,

29:59

right. Yeah. Yeah, I hear that.

30:06

What do you think are do you do

30:06

you think the greatest barriers

30:14

to I mean, we've been we've been

30:14

looking at it we've been

30:17

fighting cancer for four years.

30:17

Right. And you know, there's

30:23

there's there are schools of

30:23

thought out there that that say

30:26

that the can't the cure is

30:26

already been found. You know,

30:31

you believe that or you don't or

30:31

What do you think the greatest

30:36

barriers are? What is the number

30:36

one barrier to finding, and then

30:41

implementing a cure for cancer

30:41

in general? And I know that's a

30:48

very, very broad question,

30:48

because there are myriad types

30:53

of cancer out there that are all

30:53

treated in very different ways.

30:56

And there are so many variables,

30:56

like you were saying earlier, we

30:59

are biodiverse beings. Everyone

30:59

is different. You know, we're

31:04

the same, but we're not. Right.

31:04

So what do you think the biggest

31:08

the biggest barrier is right

31:08

now? Well, first, I can't help

31:13

but address your comment before

31:13

the question. I'm going to wade

31:20

into the sticky waters. You

31:20

know, everyone's entitled to

31:25

their own opinion. But I'm not a

31:25

conspiracy theorist. The cures

31:32

for cancer have not been

31:32

developed, they are not sitting

31:36

in a vault. And pharmaceutical

31:36

companies are not sitting there,

31:42

you know, smoking their cigars,

31:42

you know, holding on to the

31:46

cure, so that they can make more

31:46

money. I do not believe that.

31:52

What is the greatest need right

31:52

now?

31:56

It's investment. Its funding.

31:56

And I don't think it's very easy

32:02

to point fingers and say, the

32:02

government should do it.

32:05

Pharmaceutical companies should

32:05

do it. Charity should do it.

32:08

Bill Gates of the world should

32:08

do it. But the answer is yes.

32:13

Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, yeah, we

32:13

need that. And we have to be

32:18

realistic, this war on cancer

32:18

kind of thing that President

32:22

Nixon, you know, launched. Great

32:22

idea. But don't be, you know, we

32:29

like to live in a bite size

32:29

world. And we'd like to think,

32:32

okay, everything's gonna be done

32:32

by Thursday. He doesn't work

32:35

that way. This is going to take

32:35

year after year of investment.

32:39

And I don't care whether it's a

32:39

Republican president, a

32:41

Democratic president, an

32:41

independent president, it's

32:44

going to have to be a concerted

32:44

effort of, you know, teamwork to

32:50

make this happen. We know what

32:50

happens when you research

32:55

things. I mentioned the survival

32:55

rate change for leukemia in

32:59

kids, from 15% to 90%. That

32:59

didn't happen by accident. One

33:06

of my biggest worries, if the

33:06

funding isn't there isn't that

33:12

trials just won't happen or

33:12

experiments won't happen. But we

33:16

will lose bench strength of

33:16

young professionals, young

33:20

investigators, they're called in

33:20

the field. If you're a young

33:23

investigator, and you find that,

33:23

you know, you have to spend half

33:28

your time trying to drum up

33:28

grant support, when you really

33:31

need to be in the lab, you may

33:31

not go down the path of cancer

33:35

researcher. Yeah, that's a big

33:35

concern. I want the reason I

33:42

kind of bust my tail doing

33:42

research, fundraising, is

33:45

because I don't want researchers

33:45

doing the fundraising, I can't

33:50

do science, they should stick to

33:50

the science and keep, you know,

33:54

I'm being a little bit of a

33:54

wise, wise ass here, but heat

33:57

their eyes into the microscope.

33:57

And we have to have funding

34:02

sources for those young

34:02

investigators that are going to

34:05

be the future, you know, Nobel

34:05

Prize winners, and the middle

34:09

age ones and the season ones.

34:09

And we have to continue. And

34:13

here's another thing we have to

34:13

do. And it I think we learned

34:18

some lessons. Back in the 80s.

34:18

With the AIDS epidemic, I think

34:25

we learned some things with

34:25

COVID. This is a global

34:29

challenge. This is not an

34:29

American challenge, right? It's

34:33

a human, it's a human issue. And

34:33

we may, we may as Americans, we

34:37

may need to bear a little more

34:37

than our share on a percentage

34:41

basis of what we kick into the

34:41

pot. But this is a global

34:45

challenge. It has to be funded

34:45

globally. And it has to be there

34:49

has to be global collaboration.

34:49

That's exactly the word that was

34:54

in my head just now. Yeah, you

34:54

know that that's, that's how

34:57

we're going to, you know, when

34:57

we fund research, I tell people

35:01

all the time, I really genuinely

35:01

do not care. I am. I am as

35:07

patriotic as anybody I love. I'm

35:07

proud to be an American. I

35:12

couldn't care less. If this

35:12

cancer discovery comes from

35:15

Dusseldorf, Germany, or Alberta,

35:15

Canada, or I couldn't care less

35:22

because it's going to save

35:22

children's lives. And you know

35:25

what? A French mom's tears are

35:25

the same as my tears.

35:29

Absolutely. Dad's, you know,

35:29

anguish is my anguish. I

35:34

couldn't care less where it's

35:34

developed? Yeah, it's not a,

35:38

it's not a nationalistic thing.

35:38

We have to this this is not you

35:45

know, it sounds simple and it

35:45

sounds soundbite ish. But we

35:49

need 21st century solutions. And

35:49

we need to think differently

35:55

than we thought in the past. I

35:55

agree with you. 100%. It's, it's

36:00

it's not a political issue. It

36:00

is not a national issue. It's a

36:04

it's a human issue. And I think,

36:04

well, that's, that's our, you

36:09

know, at Empower humans that's

36:09

changed starts here. It's, we're

36:13

empowered humans are not

36:13

empowered women, or, you know,

36:16

men or white people, or black

36:16

people, or sick people, or

36:19

healthy people. We're just

36:19

humans, and we all need to work

36:22

together. Better than we have

36:22

been, you know, historically. I,

36:28

there was one weekend where I

36:28

was in this church outside of

36:36

Dallas. And I was giving a

36:36

eulogy to a pack church,

36:43

Protestant church. Reflecting on

36:43

the life of a friend of mine,

36:48

she was a 19 year old college

36:48

student who died of cancer and I

36:52

had gotten to know Taylor very

36:52

well, and just a

36:55

sweet kid. I flew back to

36:55

Philadelphia, and I went to a

37:00

mosque in North Philadelphia,

37:00

Prairie Janessa. A Muslim

37:05

funeral, per Jabril. I'll be

37:05

positive here a little buddy of

37:10

mine, who died of cancer, brain

37:10

cancer and, and the things I

37:17

said at each place, were the

37:17

same. The anguish I saw at each

37:25

place was the same. The skin

37:25

color was different. The

37:29

religious traditions were

37:29

different. Some of the

37:32

expressions were different. But

37:32

that's just superficial. You

37:37

know, and they, I saw cancer

37:37

take two children, not a Muslim

37:45

children and a Protestant young

37:45

lady. I saw cancer take two

37:49

bright lights from the world.

37:49

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Joe, we're

37:57

getting to our time right here.

37:57

So it's been an absolute

38:02

pleasure talking with you. And I

38:02

would just ask that you be take

38:09

a minute and and leave our

38:09

listeners with some sort of

38:14

positive takeaway, what do you

38:14

what is something that that

38:17

people can consider? An action

38:17

they can take? Something

38:23

something positive? Okay, well,

38:23

well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm

38:27

gonna answer that with two

38:27

parts. One I have to plug to be

38:31

positive foundation course, to

38:31

be positive.org. And see how you

38:36

can help us fight for the kids.

38:36

Okay, plugs out of the way. And

38:41

this is a, this is more of a

38:41

live like Andrew. request of

38:46

you. Every day. We have forks in

38:46

the road. Many times, it could

38:53

be holding a door for somebody.

38:53

It could be you both come up to

38:57

that parking space at the same

38:57

time. It could be going into the

39:00

elevator and seeing somebody and

39:00

thinking, do I say you look

39:04

really nice today? Or do I just

39:04

look at my shoes? I saw somebody

39:10

that was, you know, 10 feet

39:10

behind me? Do I hold the door?

39:14

Or do I pretend like I didn't

39:14

see that? I saw someone drop

39:18

something. Did I look the other

39:18

way? Because nobody saw me. And

39:23

no one will know I did that. Or

39:23

do I go over? Every day you have

39:28

forks in the road. My son had a

39:28

friend who after he died. This

39:33

young lady said she was having a

39:33

bad day at school. She was

39:37

sitting at the beginning of the

39:37

school day, she felt a tap on

39:39

her shoulder. She looked up. She

39:39

saw her curly haired friend. Do

39:45

you know what he said to her?

39:45

Nothing, smiled. He smiled and

39:52

then went and sat down. She said

39:52

it changed her whole demeanor.

39:56

And if you rewind that, I can

39:56

picture Andrew coming in with

39:59

his buddies. And at that fork in

39:59

the road. Easiest thing to do

40:04

would have been to sit down with

40:04

his guys these are eighth grade

40:06

boys. Yeah, I going over to

40:06

Kristin. He opens himself up for

40:11

Oh, you like Kristin and blah,

40:11

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

40:14

blah. But he knew his friend

40:14

needed that. And so I asked you,

40:21

I challenge you I plead with

40:21

you. When you lay your head on

40:26

the pillow tonight. Did you make

40:26

the world a better place for at

40:32

least one person did you impact

40:32

someone's life just one person.

40:37

And it doesn't have to be

40:37

current childhood cancer. It

40:40

could be you held a door, you

40:40

told someone you look nice. Have

40:43

you ever seen the impact when

40:43

you hold the door for someone,

40:47

they act like you did something

40:47

great. I got in the elevator, I

40:50

said to a man, which is

40:50

sometimes awkward for a man to

40:53

compliment another man on his

40:53

Kansas if you look really nice.

40:57

And he was so he was so proud.

40:57

doesn't cost us anything to be

41:03

positive. We have no idea what

41:03

that person's carrying with them

41:07

that day, what they're dealing

41:07

with, make a difference. And

41:12

let's help lighten the load a

41:12

little bit. I think that's

41:16

absolutely fantastic advice. And

41:16

I thank you very much. Thank

41:20

you. Thank you for spending time

41:20

with me today. I really

41:23

appreciate it. Thank you for

41:23

everything you do. folks go to

41:28

be positive foundation.org. So

41:28

that correct the positive

41:32

foundation.org. And if you don't

41:32

know for the rest of the month

41:38

of October, every donation that

41:38

comes into on fringe to power

41:42

humans a portion of of those

41:42

proceeds will also be donated

41:45

directly to the positive

41:45

foundation. So I look forward to

41:51

to speaking with you again

41:51

sometime in the near future.

41:53

Thank you very much for

41:53

everything you do, sir. Thank

41:56

you. Take care. Thanks. Bye.

41:56

Bye. Hey, if you enjoy the show,

42:03

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42:55

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