Uninhibited Podcast Shownotes

Episode 8

Dr. Joy Baker

Welcome to Uninhibited, a podcast with the mission to discuss taboo, multicultural, multi-generational, and multi-layered topics that matter to women. 

Our host, Dr. Makunda Abdul Mbacke, is an Ivy-League trained OBGYN, practicing medicine in rural America. She is a mother, career professional, part of Generation X, and so much more.

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00:50 - Today, we’re joined by special guest, Dr. Joy Baker. Before getting started, Dr. Makunda shares a quote to honor the passing of Toni Morrison: 

“I tell my students, 'When you get these jobs that you have been so brilliantly trained for, just remember that your real job is that if you are free, you need to free somebody else. If you have some power, then your job is to empower somebody else. This is not just a grab-bag candy game.”

2:00 - Dr. Joy Baker introduces herself. She is an obstetrician and gynecologist in rural Georgia and is going to talk with us about pay equity and women in the workforce. 

2:44 - Dr. Baker speaks to her training, how she found her profession and current position. Dr. Baker completed her education and residency at a large hospital in Atlanta, GA, but knew that she wanted to work outside of the metro-Atlanta area upon graduation. Having come from small-town life, Dr. Baker knew the challenges facing smaller communities and Georgia as a state in terms of providing maternal care. 

3:20 - Dr. Makunda comments that she read that some women have to travel 2-3 hours in order to find care, which Dr. Baker confirms, calling these places “maternal healthcare deserts” or “obstetric deserts”. 

4:15 - Dr. Baker graduated as the top resident of her training program and was awarded the Next Generation Healer Award. She ran with the mission of her program, which was to serve the underserved, so she went to Columbus and jumped into an attending position. Throughout her two years in that position, Dr. Baker dealt with many workplace issues and was under undue pressure to prove her value.

6:15 - Dr. Baker found her next position almost by accident. In a call to gather records on a patient, she spoke with a labor and delivery nurse who mentioned that their care center only had temporary OBGYNs. This absence of stable care piqued Dr. Baker’s interest, so she travelled out to the community to form her opinion of whether to make a move. She negotiated directly with the local hospital in order to get started with providing care as a temporary doctor. 

9:10 - As time progressed and Dr. Baker began discussions about a permanent position, she later discovered that the other temp doctors were making more than double what she was making. As she worked through negotiations, Dr. Baker wanted to ensure that she could do the community work she feels so passionate about, like providing community health education and group prenatal care. 

12:45 - While working on negotiating her contract, Dr. Baker was able to secure good benefits, as well as raises every year. However, she accidentally found out that her production bonuses were 9-10 times lower than the other surgical specialists were being paid, which is a huge monetary difference.

15:40 - Dr. Makunda asks Dr. Baker to expand on her experience at the hospital, after being partnered with another doctor whom they said she was “lucky” to work with. Dr. Baker explains “I just sort of absorbed that with no comment because I’m an African American female and I trained at a historically black institution, so I was prepared for the fact that people might underestimate me or discount my skill set just because of my race and my gender.”

20:05 - Dr. Baker goes into some detail about how she found out about the discrepancy between her and her partner’s pay. Dr. Baker was trying to ensure equitable compensation for an advanced practitioner brought into their practice, and through a discussion with a director, discovered that her productivity pay was far less than the standard amount. So, she started asking questions. 

25:14 - Dr. Baker was understandably angry, especially considering there was no justification for the huge pay disparity. At the root of it, she felt de-valued and unappreciated for the dedication, time, and care that she put into her work. Dr. Baker involved the CEO and Director of Physician Practices in the situation, and came prepared to a meeting with data to back up her worth, her hard work, and the industry standards for the amount she should have been compensated. 

30:50 - After making a well-researched, well-argued, and very direct ask to be paid the same as her partner (for doing most of the work at the practice), Dr. Baker continued to face an uphill battle. The Director of Physician Services that she met with was terminated, so she had to start her negotiation all over again. Then the Interim Director was terminated, followed by the CEO. She found herself advocating for her case over and over again. 

37:11 - Dr. Makunda makes the observation that women generally seek female OBs, so this should be a professional field where women are paid the most - yet we still face pay disparity within OB generalists to specialists. 

38: 23 - Dr. Baker’s partner took on locum (temporary) work at another facility to earn additional money, so she pursued the same. After three months of working additional hours at another facility, she was asked by the Director and an HR representative to stop that work. This discussion uncovered more disparities between how Dr. Baker and her partner were treated, and even more discrepancies in Dr. Baker’s pay.

41:44 - Despite Dr. Baker’s significant contributions to growing and transforming the practice, she was still not being treated or paid fairly or adequately. That was the final straw that caused her to leave. 

42:29 - Dr. Baker is moving on to a different hospital-owned practice and is being placed on a leadership track where she can pursue her interests and passions along with her clinical practice. Through her experience, she wants to try to help other women avoid the pitfalls and obstacles that she has run into, as well as empower people coming out of residency to know how to advocate for themselves and negotiate strongly. 

44:15 - “To women who are in these situations, the one thing I would say is speak out! Going to my administrators and presenting the facts, presenting what my productivity had been and the fact that it was higher than most people in my region - I had to tell them Look, this is what I’m bringing to the table and I deserve to be compensated equitably.” - Dr. Joy Baker

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