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well, hello everyone. Welcome to the latest United

0:40

We Stand podcast. I'm Matt. I'm one of

0:42

the writers for United We Stand and yeah,

0:46

Happy Christmas is the first thing to say.

0:49

It's Boxing Day in

0:51

Manchester, but we're starting a

0:53

little bit outside the city senate today. We're at

0:55

Hearst Cross. In Aston, Aston

0:57

United at

0:59

home to FC United of Manchester in non-league

1:03

today. I thought this would be a

1:05

good place to start today's podcast because

1:07

of the news which was confirmed

1:09

on Christmas Eve regarding the ownership of Manchester

1:12

United. Now obviously the reason for the existence

1:14

of FC United of Manchester is down to

1:16

the plays that take over in 2005. And

1:20

18 years later, I thought it'd be interesting to

1:23

get a bit of a perspective from FC. Yeah,

1:26

at a juncture in United's history, which has seen

1:28

another not quite change

1:30

of ownership, but at

1:33

least, yeah, a slight change

1:35

in direction. So yeah,

1:37

got a few representatives here from FC

1:39

United. If you want to quickly introduce

1:41

yourself. Yeah, sure. I'm Matthew Haley. I'm

1:44

on the board at FC United. I'm

1:47

Paul Hearst, also a board member at

1:49

FC United. I previously served on the

1:51

committee of the Independent United Supports Association

1:53

prior to the Glazer takeover. Nice.

1:56

Well, cheers for your time lads. And yeah,

1:58

obviously the news of people. I'm

2:00

sure people have seen it, but the

2:02

details being that Sir Jim Ratcliffe has

2:05

paid £1.3 billion for the privilege. And

2:08

as we understand it, the deal

2:10

includes Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his

2:12

INEOS groups, including the likes of

2:15

today's Maelstrom and Jean-Claude Blanc taking

2:18

over the sporting side of

2:21

operations at Manchester United. As

2:23

I said, we're here watching

2:25

FC first. FC were founded

2:27

18 years ago as

2:29

a result of the initial of laser takeover. What's

2:32

been the reaction at FC United to the

2:34

news over at Old Trafford? We

2:37

think that even though Jim

2:39

Ratcliffe's investment in

2:41

Sir Manchester United could bring about some positive

2:43

changes, we still don't

2:45

think it will be enough to change the

2:47

deep-rooted issues out of the United or

2:50

in the modern game in general. And

2:52

change lots of the issues that have been

2:54

affecting the United fans for the last two

2:57

decades or more. Ratcliffe

3:00

says he's going to invest just over £230

3:03

million, but that won't be enough on

3:05

its own. And meanwhile, the Glazer

3:07

family are still going to hold a controlling stake

3:09

in the club. So they'll be

3:12

free to continue taking out millions of pounds

3:14

and ignoring supporters' views just

3:17

as they have been doing. We

3:20

just don't see how that's right. At

3:23

FC, we've always been a club run

3:25

by Manchester United fans for Manchester United

3:27

fans who want to process about the

3:29

Glazer occupation of United. And

3:31

for the last 18 years, we've been providing

3:33

somewhere for like-minded Reds to meet up and

3:36

watch football together. I

3:38

think the latest saga, it just demonstrates

3:40

that the Glazer's still aren't going anywhere

3:42

anytime soon. So

3:44

we once again invite United fans to

3:47

come down to FC. If

3:50

they want to start the Glazers of the hard-earned

3:52

cash, or They want to protest

3:54

or they're just fed up with modern football in

3:56

general, then you'll always be welcome at FC. Spend

4:00

some time as a fellow rights and

4:03

enjoy watching football together. Think it on

4:05

the terraces for ninety minutes and you

4:07

can have a beer. It's high on

4:10

the game modes, the things that have

4:12

disappeared from them out. again the alternative

4:14

to receive soon as it's a restless

4:16

investment. Or

4:19

sexual decided he has been on even full take

4:21

over. How How would that have been seen as.

4:25

Many a statistical on a thing for me

4:27

you look at is t ways i think

4:29

everyone wants. To see consisted I be successful

4:31

and change on the pitch in. And

4:34

I'm sure the Qatar is where the all those

4:36

windows resources to do that. You would hope that

4:38

right places with the likes of Brailsford in Saudi

4:40

Santa can come in and change the last of

4:43

in the scenes which I think everyone to say

4:45

is planning on monthly wrong. Man.

4:50

Thing the ultimate they've made I was whether

4:52

the supporters blades the see you Know is

4:54

a statement of not a great A woman

4:56

said about a month for the call them

4:58

was going to change for them and. Get

5:01

zero Successes Successes Gray that.

5:04

Are the most a experience on a

5:06

log. I grew up in Stratford, the

5:08

local lots around there is that is

5:10

I've got a chase noisy still about

5:12

money and with the Glazers still in

5:14

man a personal about money but are

5:16

we going to see real change? Anything

5:18

that you know for me as the

5:20

United or the Sapporo clubs you know

5:22

if they were a lot further down

5:25

the pyramids than I than than United

5:27

Bomb on We thought we don't say

5:29

over things in ultimately whether it be

5:31

decide whether any rifle and know whoever

5:33

Osbournes got to be something. That changes

5:35

for the positive for supposes that

5:37

improves the my bags. Maybe maybe

5:39

not plane or a o'clock on

5:41

boxing day but no public transport.

5:45

Have his been at eighteen

5:47

years old now and I'm

5:49

also doing. Yeah

5:52

well things web or sets of as

5:54

we've ever been. Ah we've got young

5:56

men. same with got a women's game

5:59

has gotten academy. We just

6:01

as one of the highest episode outside. Most

6:03

recent on your demo made since gone online

6:05

voting now so is far more accessible when

6:07

less is actually as as the angels and

6:10

so is War member. One vote. so you

6:12

pay twenty five quid for the season to

6:14

be a member and then you get to

6:16

vote on a variety of issues. He gets

6:18

a light bulb. Members like those who were

6:21

all volunteers you know well just in it.

6:23

For the love of as safe as months

6:25

united and making a positive difference by and

6:27

against Vices Ball so you know makes in

6:29

a positive. Difference about as you know how

6:32

football could and should be in this

6:34

country how's the how's it going to

6:36

fix the seasons How the seasons as

6:38

well we just one or two the

6:40

last three so I with a killer

6:42

currently mid table but with some points

6:44

of the playoffs so were well for

6:46

me to nurse gone a good run

6:48

now. Ah in and say that new

6:50

Year and and get out into the

6:52

playoffs. Advised by April and you never

6:54

know who will say it be great

6:56

say get in the playoffs said mad

6:58

sleek promotion both or say. And

7:00

them in the past few years se va

7:02

insane and on your always of hundred thousand

7:04

on about about the seat excelsior to deal

7:07

with the top as plain as day came

7:09

about when to stop the cove it and

7:11

it was bit surreal of first I'm mods

7:13

or speeds are manage on a regular my

7:15

said a with is still for the program

7:18

bar and and I'm very slow speeds and

7:20

ninety one blogger believe this will go into

7:22

your friends i was of volume was once

7:24

more you talking about time that you specify

7:26

where we are we not been able to

7:28

travel anywhere I am bulgaria. Say I'm

7:31

trophy basic. They're supposed to home

7:33

for dinner with similar ideals. mirage

7:35

around your it. So

7:38

growing nice to get some he seems

7:40

to spot with any thoughts on with

7:42

also three Greaves this the here and

7:44

guess we're supposed to Ownership you know

7:46

Fred friendship that all these clubs you've

7:48

got similar ideals from from around your

7:50

of so it offers. Trip was in

7:52

October twenty one of the leave with

7:54

the hassle still and co be that

7:56

zoo i've seen called i guess who

7:58

I am also of and. They were

8:00

heavily involved. I'm really our Dm much of

8:02

English an invasion of Ukraine they i'm with

8:04

the refugees in a more so i'm so

8:07

just not kind of thing be I would

8:09

agree. explains the close as the one we

8:11

did when the first one as the eye

8:13

on Sunday weekend and I and women a

8:15

I am minister like. Yeah

8:19

he's been great for the lots of the players

8:21

I a we we can offer as much money

8:23

as some I some of the club say know

8:25

this level they really so far financial fair play

8:28

you know whether something a nice to come. Down

8:30

to this level thirty something know you know

8:32

we can often he was because of the

8:34

name of the club and me know the

8:36

experience and one thousand. I

8:39

get about seventeen seventeen eighteen on foot.

8:41

So the subtly much he was over

8:43

been less mid week. They'll die rust

8:46

with the home this coming Saturday. an

8:48

ass of Iraq fly that often leads

8:50

a local Dhabi sorry I would be

8:53

hoping for probably cry two thousand and

8:55

up must make of of the offices

8:57

of us real mixture and so. Obviously

9:00

we've got a lot of people who

9:03

followed united all over the world by

9:05

in the seventies and eighties and for

9:07

us we fly and you're pretty much

9:10

the now since. Two thousand and fifteen

9:12

out with with against vault with the

9:14

local community and galore people coming along

9:16

so we've got mixture is why I

9:19

have time served reds as it were

9:21

of them we got people no flair

9:23

he who you know come along and

9:26

got involved in the club because he

9:28

from my doorstep. Or

9:30

cheesy cheesy Time us. Assets

9:33

and Alpha had Austin active of out

9:35

of the time is that is A

9:37

He has got caught on day ahead

9:39

of us and will yes think it's

9:41

good to start over A wants a

9:43

Ness united and death of a loud

9:45

okay Lisa Another another example of red,

9:48

white and black uncles and consistent still

9:50

some so says us. A.

9:52

Seat at once he wants. Despite. Being

9:54

down certain then and ninety census so that was

9:56

a good stats the day since and us. The

10:00

Trump moved all the way across

10:02

city of Manchester via see Abu Dhabi

10:04

enclave which in the less said about

10:07

out the back and would put on

10:09

some was the way Now inside the

10:11

the most house and much nightspot tossed

10:14

with a on could gusto with

10:16

were sweating start with most singer has

10:18

been regarded as a offseason to the

10:20

Glazers dog yes and eighteen years on

10:23

now says thousand five To fair to

10:25

say this is probably the first. Major.

10:29

Change in direction you know is no fool take

10:31

over. The first major change in direction? the garden.

10:33

the ownership in in eighteen years. Yeah, what's what's

10:35

your stance on it and what's what's most most

10:38

stance on on the of the rock to steal?

10:40

Yeah yeah. I think I mean you know some

10:42

people who are younger may not know the kind

10:44

of history of up? Of course we did. You

10:47

have warned that they advised to take I

10:49

was going to be dangerous for the club,

10:51

damaging for the club or said so. We

10:54

try to oppose it as much as recording

10:56

every mechanism that we had available to us

10:58

in terms of political lobbying and so on.

11:00

and in the trying to get people to

11:02

earn enough says. Ah, nine of people listen

11:04

to the time and I think most people

11:06

didn't think the blazes were really a problem.

11:08

mostly blue when our members at least in

11:10

the laser a problem probably And so after

11:12

Sonics retired and then he started to say

11:14

it really impact on the pitch and I

11:16

you know. That was something that we thought

11:19

would happen because Fergie was basically keeping

11:21

the machine going. You know when soon

11:23

as he left it kind of fell

11:25

apart in that I'm and so you

11:27

know citizens really came home to roost.

11:29

This was day one of the Glazers

11:31

ownership and Fergie in terms of the

11:33

are you judging was the first day

11:35

after Fergie retired us both. I'm and

11:37

it's not going well, has a you

11:39

know and a united have been in

11:41

decline since that day. I'm so yep.

11:43

this is the first positive moment I

11:45

would say since Two thousand and Five.

11:47

And signs of the ownership structure. i

11:50

think a lot of people will feel pleased

11:52

about that and i don't want to be

11:54

negative about it because the thing is about

11:56

people that feel he has enough negativity around

11:58

united we don't need a people saying it's

12:00

not good enough or it's not going to deliver. But

12:04

obviously in terms of a realistic analysis

12:06

of it, it

12:08

is a missed opportunity in that there's

12:11

too much of the money is going to the

12:13

existing shareholders. It's not just the glazers, of course, it's

12:15

the other shareholders. And if you're

12:17

raising that much money, I'd rather see more

12:19

of that going into the club. What

12:22

we're getting is $300 million through

12:25

some new shares that will be issued. Obviously,

12:28

everything assuming all the regulatory barriers

12:30

are overcome. And

12:33

substantially more is going to the shareholders. I think

12:36

it's around $500 million to

12:38

each group, as in the glazers and the B and

12:40

the A shareholders. The A shareholders being the public

12:42

shareholders, of which the glazers

12:44

own some as well, actually. So

12:47

for me, if I wanted to

12:50

criticize it and say, what could have been

12:52

done better is it should have been a

12:54

bigger share offer so that

12:56

we're raising the sort of money that could really make

12:58

a dent in redeveloping the

13:00

stadium or building a new stadium, whichever option

13:02

is selected. And it ain't going to be

13:04

the new stadium under

13:06

the current ownership, I'm sure, because there's no way to

13:08

raise those sort of funds. Some

13:11

people will be pleased about that, others won't. So

13:15

I think what I would

13:17

say positively is that there's

13:19

a model there now. We've

13:22

established a model for buying

13:24

shares off the glazers and investing in

13:26

the club. And I think

13:28

we need more of the investment in the club. I think

13:30

this opens the door a little bit to a particular further

13:33

sales of shares down the line, whether to

13:35

fan-based or fan-friendly groups or to

13:37

other slightly more favorable investors. Yeah,

13:39

I think it does. But

13:42

there's no mechanism here. There's no

13:44

roadmap, unfortunately. What we've got is

13:46

a model or a mechanism that you could say, well,

13:48

we could replicate that. We could scale that up. We

13:50

could do more of the share issue and less of

13:52

the buying out the investors, sorry,

13:55

Other shareholders. Some People would rather just see the money

13:57

spent on getting rid of the glazers. Actually

14:00

we need money into the club as

14:02

well so it or is a is

14:04

a bit of both and but so

14:06

the difficulty is or isn't. There isn't

14:09

any legally binding route from where we

14:11

will be after they still completes to

14:13

any further progressive. That's my understanding and

14:15

A believe. That. They would have

14:17

them declared that because it's public

14:19

missing something. If there's any kind

14:21

of legal agreement that said yes

14:24

I can do this again in

14:26

six months it would have to

14:28

have been declared side. I believe

14:30

that's true that this know whether

14:32

there's no future roadmap in a

14:34

building settlements in home and some

14:36

constituted a was announced ones assume

14:38

that reflects best interests also the

14:40

Atari and what was what what

14:42

was most stance on that Montana

14:44

was or have preferred. Isn't enough

14:47

processed know I'm as couple reasons for

14:49

that I may not least whereas a

14:51

representative organization so it's not up to

14:53

us to have as a view on

14:55

things other than represents is for his

14:58

views on was defeated not devices I

15:00

unless of course it's something that relates

15:02

to actually ah ah in a constitutional

15:04

object is if you live ah The

15:06

feedback was absolutely mixed. You know there

15:09

were people who are vehemently against ah

15:11

a nice and stay own in the

15:13

club for the reasons you can imagine

15:15

in are not. Just political or human rights

15:17

but just because a dancing is the right

15:19

model and it's It's what we criticized for

15:21

you know into my just one a bail

15:24

was set a demanding and yeah united and

15:26

we need the money as a side hustle

15:28

think they would need that that that's very

15:30

true and that yeah you don't just want

15:32

to be in a game If he's got

15:34

the owners are the deepest pockets some in

15:36

you know should pay the should be relationship

15:38

between the suppose in the clubs and the

15:40

success of the club as well as he

15:42

gives you the pleasant. Been a fan. I'm

15:44

fading life conservatives You know we found. my

15:46

we apart the success in ninety nine and

15:48

in and i'm not trying to do this

15:51

is as belittling city fans by any means

15:53

but you know i don't think they can

15:55

feel the same thing about having one that

15:57

rebels as soon to put it up and

15:59

thus difficult for me to accept it

16:01

as the equivalent because I was thinking...

16:03

I don't know what you're talking about.

16:06

Yeah, because it's been bought with nations

16:09

money rather than actually support

16:11

us contributing to the club and building the club over

16:13

a century. The idea of supporters

16:15

being able to contribute to the club. Obviously,

16:18

I spent a lot of time in Germany

16:21

with a completely different model of football and

16:23

I do like having enshrines say, of that's

16:25

a little bit utopian in an English or

16:27

a British context. But before the strategic review,

16:29

most did what had entered into negotiations, discussions

16:32

with the Glazers regarding what you were calling

16:34

a... I wouldn't say with the club rather

16:36

than the Glazers to be fair, but of

16:38

course they did need to approve anything. Absolutely.

16:40

With the fanshares game. Yeah.

16:44

I'm writing that probably put on ice due

16:46

to the strategic review. Oh yeah, I mean,

16:48

absolutely. There was no point in having that.

16:50

What's the future of that now? There was

16:52

no point in having that discussion during that

16:54

process. Is it something you'd

16:56

like to resurrect? Not necessarily that

16:58

scheme, but I think the principle of

17:01

supporters investing in their

17:03

own club, having a significant ownership

17:05

stake and that building over a period of time

17:08

is just a valid one regardless of who the

17:10

owners are. And so

17:12

obviously that then depends on whether

17:14

there's a change in attitude from either

17:16

the new investor as in Sir Jim

17:18

Ratcliffe, what the view

17:21

is of the other shareholders, including the

17:23

public shareholders and the Glazers. But

17:26

I think as a principle, it

17:28

actually makes sense to everyone for supporters to

17:30

have a stake. And, you know, we've got

17:32

a global fan base that's huge

17:35

and it's ridiculous not to think that they

17:37

can't be a part of transforming United back

17:39

to where it should belong. In terms of

17:41

an investment element of it. We all create

17:43

as a series of investors for having potentially

17:45

different sort of here the emotive. So probably

17:47

the one group of stakeholders

17:49

in all this, you can't accuse them of having

17:52

an alternative emotive here is the

17:54

fans. Yeah, I think we want. Yeah,

17:56

yeah. But I think there is a balance argument. I

18:00

think that you look at what I

18:02

used to consider, naively back in

18:04

1998, 99, when

18:06

we were opposing the Murdoch takeover and we sort

18:08

of said, oh, Barcelona's the model, isn't it? And

18:11

we did change our view on that over

18:13

time because we saw how it didn't really

18:15

deliver properly because it became a political environment

18:17

for who wanted to be elected as the

18:20

president and then became the power broker or

18:23

the holder of that power. And

18:25

we didn't think that was good. And actually,

18:27

by chance, I suppose, it

18:30

is the German model has evolved to,

18:33

if you look at the Bayern Munich model, I know you'll tell me

18:35

there's lots of things wrong with it. I know there is. But

18:38

I think- Do you think it's a good model? Well, there's

18:40

lots of things wrong with it, but I think it's actually

18:42

the best model. I think because it sort of optimized itself.

18:45

So you've ended up at the point where you

18:47

have got investment into the clubs. And

18:49

I'm taking Bayern Munich as an example. I know there's many

18:51

different ways of looking at it, but, and

18:54

the one that's been successful. But

18:57

you get investment in, you get commercial expertise,

18:59

commercial drive, but then you've got the break,

19:01

or it shouldn't necessarily be of a break,

19:03

but the keeping the modest element of the

19:05

fan vote. And again, it's not in the

19:07

same way as we're talking about here. And

19:10

that's just because of the way we are,

19:12

where we are and where we're coming from. But

19:15

yeah, so I mean- It would take legislation to

19:17

change something. Yeah, or obviously you're buying a fair

19:20

support over time, but yeah. So

19:22

I mean, if you were asking the question,

19:26

where would you like to end up? Then it would be

19:28

something like that. I think that's the optimum model for

19:30

a football club because it delivers

19:33

that commercial drive, keeps the club honest

19:35

with the fans, concerns

19:38

at the heart of things. And

19:41

I think it actually is even better commercially

19:43

for the club anyway, to have

19:45

the supporters as both part owners. And

19:47

I know customers is a dirty word

19:49

sometimes, but in terms of that

19:52

commercial relationship, you're a customer who is a

19:54

supporter and an owner. That to

19:56

me is the optimum model. So that's why we've all.

20:00

always been in favour of that is the

20:02

short, the long answer isn't it? But

20:05

so yeah, we will always try and pursue

20:07

that because we think that's the best long-term

20:09

ownership model for the club and you know

20:11

whether it happens in my lifetime or not

20:13

I don't know but certainly I think it'd

20:15

be a good thing for the club. What

20:17

we've heard so far is that Ratcliffe and

20:19

the INEOS operation will be taking over the

20:21

sporting side of operations at Manchester United, how

20:24

much leeway that actually gives him

20:26

and his organisation in the communications

20:30

of the club and how they deal with the fans that are not

20:32

too sure, probably less than I

20:34

would hope. Nevertheless, do you have any

20:37

particular hopes for

20:39

communication with Ratcliffe, with INEOS? Would you like

20:41

to see them reaching out to you? Would

20:43

you be reaching out to them? Would

20:46

you expect to develop some sort

20:48

of relationship there? Well, I think

20:50

this is an interesting debate about

20:53

what the role shareholders or owners should have

20:56

in the running of a football club or

20:58

any company actually and essentially you're

21:00

a shareholder, you're not the executive management of the club

21:02

and I don't think you should be. I think that's

21:04

part of the problem we have had is

21:06

that we've had major shareholders who

21:09

are too hands-on even

21:11

though they may not be speaking to the

21:13

supporters. I don't think

21:15

by owning that majority of

21:17

shareholders that qualifies you to be the best person

21:19

to be making decisions for the club and

21:22

if you looked at the role titles of Joel

21:24

and Avi Glazer for example, they call themselves

21:27

executive co-chairman. In other words, the highest position

21:29

within the company and Edward Wood at the

21:31

time was called vice chairman and

21:35

that said something, doesn't it? It says that we consider

21:38

ourselves the top executives in the company

21:41

and they're not the top executives by

21:43

appointment because they're the best at the job. They're top

21:45

executives because they've got the most shares. That's not the

21:47

right qualification for me. So in

21:49

that sense, I don't think that

21:52

a dialogue with the owners, whether

21:54

it's Glazer's or Sir Jim Ratcliffe,

21:57

should be the most important. It should be that

21:59

they... have a belief that

22:01

they appoint the right people, professional management,

22:04

who will get on with the job and perform it to the

22:06

best of their ability and they'll be there to

22:08

make sure they've got the right people and that they're

22:10

doing their job. And part of that job is communicating

22:12

with supporters. So supporters

22:15

should have a dialogue

22:17

with management of the club. And,

22:19

you know, the ownership element should

22:21

only really matter if that

22:23

element isn't working, if the dialogue with the professional

22:26

management isn't working. Or because the

22:28

owners are performing a role which is interfering

22:30

with that management. And so that would be

22:32

a concern in a sense. I mean, I

22:34

would hope that someone as successful as Sir

22:36

Jim Ratcliffe in business will understand that. I'm

22:38

sure he does. That you appoint good

22:41

people and let them get on with it. You get out

22:43

their way or you're removing obstacles from their path, don't you,

22:45

and let them get on with it. And

22:47

I doubt he wants to be involved in day-to-day

22:49

stuff, although I suspect he might want to initially a

22:51

little bit because he wants to see a quick

22:54

turnaround. First thing I

22:56

asked when I came in here before was, hey, I thought,

22:58

generally, how are you doing? And I think you're referring mainly

23:00

to the action on the pitch. You're like, well, it can't

23:02

really get much worse. So

23:05

after the disaster at West

23:07

Ham on Saturday, is that... Are

23:10

you hoping that's an idea and it's

23:12

going to only go upwards from here?

23:14

I mean, I'm

23:16

no football expert and I'll leave that to Andy

23:18

Mitten and the boys who really understand it and

23:21

analyze it to a great degree. But what I

23:23

would say is I think there's

23:25

been a degree of unfairness in

23:27

that we've not actually accounted

23:29

for the really serious impact

23:31

of the injuries we've had.

23:34

And I think other clubs have been getting more... Credits

23:37

are on word, isn't it? But more understanding for

23:39

that. But yeah, I

23:41

mean, in terms of if this

23:43

positive news about this new investment

23:46

is something that kind of triggers a bit of

23:48

a reaction and we start to see things turn

23:50

around, you'd hope the momentum starts moving the other

23:52

way. I don't think there's an

23:54

appetite amongst most of our supporters to see another

23:56

management change because I think the feeling is what's

23:58

the point of doing that? We tried that

24:01

XX times. That's not the problem. It's

24:03

not the management problem But

24:05

of course it does become difficult if you

24:07

keep losing matches and you're not playing well

24:09

And you're not scoring goals and you're looking

24:11

dull any manager is at risk

24:13

in that situation, aren't they? But but

24:16

I would hope that we're gonna see a turnaround

24:18

I would love to see ten hard

24:20

given a chance and giving enough time to actually

24:23

See if he can deliver what what we all hope

24:25

he can Let's hope that yeah, let's hope it provides

24:28

a bit of momentum on and off the pitch and

24:30

yeah brings us all brings us all together A little

24:32

bit more. Yeah, it's been difficult. Yeah, yeah Yeah,

24:35

I mean, I think there's a lot of supporters want

24:38

to see fans getting united again There's been the

24:40

sick of all this sort of negativity and division

24:42

So I'd hope we start to

24:44

see people coming together again and all

24:46

supporting the same cause if you're not nice one Cheers for

24:48

you to handle. All right, no problem Back

24:52

outside on some at bus be way and with Nathan

24:54

East selling red news Because we've

24:56

sold out of the United we stands so

24:59

people should buy this one instead Name

25:01

happy Christmas been a busy busy Christmas in

25:03

terms of move with it United. How

25:06

is your mood changed from? West

25:08

Ham to the Jim Radcliffe

25:10

news to now how are you seeing it?

25:13

Oh, it's been a long time coming,

25:15

isn't it? I think I Was

25:18

always a bit Not

25:20

really happy with the idea of the

25:23

guitar is like, you know political

25:25

not politically, but you know like everything

25:27

that was the baggage that came with

25:29

that I obviously understand the the downsides

25:31

of this because obviously

25:33

we wanted rid of the glazes completely but

25:37

Maybe it's being naive. Well, hopefully

25:39

this is just the first step to that

25:41

being a longer process that will eventually happen

25:45

Whether it is or where it's just them Getting

25:47

some money from elsewhere. So they carry

25:49

it. They don't have to spend their own but It

25:53

can't be any worse. Can it and I

25:55

just think You know

25:57

if if he is getting control the

26:00

football side of things,

26:02

then you'd hope that

26:04

they've got a better idea than what's been happening in

26:06

the last 20 years or however

26:08

long it's been. It feels like 20 years,

26:11

but you know. Like you suggested then, the

26:13

deal is supposed to include

26:15

them, the INEOS, people

26:17

taking on the sport side of

26:19

operations and all that sort of stuff. What

26:21

should that entail for you? What

26:23

are the elements that they should be looking

26:26

at? And how long have they got? Well

26:29

yeah, and as much as

26:31

I'd love that to be the case and

26:33

that they get the right people involved

26:36

to do it, part

26:38

of me sort of like, are

26:40

they, sorry mate, £4 please. A

26:46

group of Aston

26:48

Villa fans coming past singing about Unai Emery,

26:50

he's obviously doing a really good job and

26:52

I think that's good for

26:54

Unai Emery. I

26:57

always thought he got quite a lot of Unai Fairstick over the

26:59

years. I was just saying about Unai

27:01

Emery, I think he got quite a lot of Unai

27:03

Fairstick over the years, so I was surprised to see

27:05

Villa fans singing about him. I think he's a great

27:07

account for his reputation. I was just

27:09

speaking to a couple of Villa fans and they're

27:11

absolutely buzzing in, too, right? You know, they're doing

27:14

really well aren't they? But I think in terms

27:16

of like you're saying about the

27:19

Ratcliffe getting the footballing decisions,

27:22

I guess I'd love to

27:24

believe it and I hope that he brings the

27:26

right people in to do that, but

27:29

I'm also like, the Glazers still

27:31

own the vast majority of it, well not,

27:33

you know, they own the majority. Are they

27:36

going to just let everything

27:39

be done? You know, like part of me thinks they're

27:42

still going to want it. I think it's going

27:44

to be the relationship that's been damaged so much,

27:46

I'm not surprised to hear the cynicism about anything

27:49

that they do. I suppose ultimately, even the deal

27:51

that they've done with Ratcliffe,

27:53

it does get plenty of thought to see a win-win

27:55

for them. Oh yeah, 100%. If

27:58

Ratcliffe is to come in... to

28:00

probably take over 25% on the sporting

28:02

side of things and within the next

28:04

five or six years things are really

28:06

looking up and we return to Farmer

28:08

Glavids and the Glazers will say yeah

28:10

thank you very much and profit from

28:12

it as they have been doing in

28:14

the past anyway. If he fails then

28:16

they'll absolve to play. Staff

28:42

time, United Nil,

28:45

Aston Villa 2. Well

28:48

it all seems very

28:50

familiar doesn't it? Familiar

28:54

performance, familiar

28:57

atmosphere, yeah Sam

28:59

pretty familiar stuff isn't it? Pretty

29:01

familiar mate, it's getting too much,

29:04

too familiar. Did you see

29:06

what happened for the first goal? Yeah I did. Now

29:10

it seems to me, what they're defenders,

29:12

you stood behind Oh Nana on the goal

29:14

line so it's seed today and United say

29:16

that's interfering with play. Yeah but he'd like

29:19

to suck you more to every time. It's

29:21

true. Every time. Well you think you should

29:23

still be getting to that as it goes

29:25

across here? Yeah every time, every time. Like

29:28

sucking more. There's a shout there

29:30

that if he's stood behind the goalkeeper as it comes

29:32

in you might not be in his line of sight

29:34

but you're shawling today in the play that's what the

29:36

rule is. Anyway

29:40

it went on there's no excuse for the second goal

29:42

either it's another shit set piece. Straight in

29:44

mate, there's no organisation, soft.

29:46

And since then United coming forward. Yeah

29:50

but it's all a hope and a prayer

29:52

isn't it? What

29:54

if the ball goes, what if the ball went

29:56

in? What if it went into the middle of

29:58

the box? and just slacking their

30:01

coherence plan in it. What is, like, there's

30:03

no clinical. You know, a guy that's all

30:05

getting a couple of times down the right,

30:07

but the ball across has come to nothing.

30:10

Rashford's right. I never thought, right, there was a

30:12

moment about half way through the half where Johnny

30:14

Evans sort of won the ball, brought it forward,

30:16

but it failed to find Rashford with the run.

30:18

Now, Rashford's reaction to that was just to wave

30:20

his arms about. Well, then, it's like, I play

30:23

with a guy that says, he does that with

30:25

his arms. It's like, arms in the air when

30:27

it comes to me, like, you get

30:29

out of his toes. And the reaction to

30:31

that was everyone singing Johnny Evans

30:33

and everyone around immediately slacking off Marcus Rashford.

30:35

And I get it, and I never thought

30:37

I'd be in that situation. He's right, he's

30:40

really, that we're all singing about Johnny Evans

30:42

and yet slacking off Marcus Rashford. And I

30:44

get it. Yeah, because he's won the ball,

30:46

as is the ball. You can't,

30:48

yes, the chance has gone. Get in your

30:50

toes, mate. Go again. It's frustrating, isn't it?

30:52

Like, you got yourself on the left wing.

30:54

Get yourself on the toes. Well,

30:58

as it stands, you're on course for a fifth

31:01

game without a goal. And

31:04

it's going to take a lot more than it

31:07

seems, a 25% Jim Radcliffe investment and

31:09

300 million quid in the stadium, I never to sort

31:11

this out. Right, see you full time.

31:16

So that's how it was at half

31:18

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no! Oh no! Yes

33:28

sir! Yes sir!

33:32

The mega coal! It's

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Christmas gift. It's the Christmas gift.

33:39

United of Scots! United of

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in the breviary, Northern Scots and Gaul!

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United of Scots for the first time, we've found

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and you're bound! Northern Scots! Northern Scots!

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Northern Scots! Villa

34:02

in where second and the league, they

34:04

haven't made a peep since United got

34:07

the first buzz,

34:10

and everything that Old Trafford

34:12

wasn't in the first half, everything that

34:14

the away ends, at the London Stadium

34:16

where Sam wasn't, Old Trafford is now

34:19

the opposite. What a buzz by

34:21

God, what a buzz

34:23

by God, what does football do to you?

34:26

What does football do

34:28

to you? Eight minutes

34:30

to go, come on

34:32

United! And full

34:35

time, three two, United

34:38

three, Villa two,

34:41

what on earth does football do to you?

34:44

What does it do to

34:46

us? As I

34:48

think I said, that couldn't have been more different to

34:50

the first half, United

34:53

pulled it out of the bag, it's a Christmas miracle, and

34:55

it's Sam we're happy now aren't we? Christmas miracle, right, hold

34:57

it up Sam, what do you mean, hold it up Sam?

34:59

It's not on the record mate, you didn't say it, I've

35:01

not got you saying that, so. You did

35:04

say it off the left, Jordan, Sam. It

35:06

was better, that's

35:10

what you want to see. Turns

35:12

out United can control the field

35:14

a bit better, turns out

35:17

United can dress, they can win the ball high,

35:19

they can force opponents, they can have a goal,

35:21

they can force opponents in the state, when

35:24

they get down the flank, they don't just have to cross

35:26

it wirelessly, they can find them out, that's

35:28

the assignment you can score in the

35:31

Premier League, Guy

35:34

Natshow doesn't have to be offside all

35:36

the time, and we've got the best

35:41

sergeant chiding in the Premier League, they're the

35:43

90 world cup winners, he's

35:45

not sure, we've got a little

35:47

more cup winners aren't we? Yeah,

35:52

you see the game of two halves don't they, there you go,

35:54

there's a cliche,

35:56

fantastic, fantastic, and

35:59

er, What a contrast

36:01

to when we were stuck there about

36:03

half time in a in a vomitory in

36:05

Old Trafford with no joke coke the

36:08

liquid bomb Chipping to a

36:10

gap in the roof. There you go. All

36:12

the all the cliches were getting fulfilled in the first

36:14

hour yeah, yeah, and

36:18

Suddenly as football

36:20

does things look positive again,

36:23

don't they? Over

36:26

the festive bed That's

36:29

how mad it is. I mean if you think back

36:31

to the way Steve completely did that podcast

36:33

at West Ham How

36:38

The word they used to turn it and it was

36:41

miserable It was just starving and I know because I

36:43

was there I got up at 4 a.m And went

36:45

down to London to watch that and

36:47

just as drabbas it all was as miserable as Steve

36:49

and the lads were afterwards After

36:51

it was right the mood was spot-on. That's exactly

36:54

how it felt the away ended empty and

36:57

The fathers was dire. You can only think

37:00

it was an absolute nadir Obviously

37:02

the day after that and the

37:04

news of the Jim Ratford Take

37:07

a 35% stake in United comes out and

37:09

you think it might not

37:11

be to everybody might not be everyone's cup of

37:14

tea It might not be everyone's favorite solution I

37:16

think we heard that the father games and what

37:18

events we were talking to people have had different

37:20

opinions over the past 13 months It's been a

37:22

very divisive 13 months since that strategic review. I

37:25

wrote as much in the mic I think we've even this

37:27

night or the Mac before the past 13 months have been

37:30

And I mean it the probably the worst 13 months

37:33

of my life watching United and it's had nothing to do with

37:35

the football on The pitch I can do

37:37

with United getting beat or United losing game. I can

37:39

deal with it We've had 10

37:41

years of that. That's fine But the that

37:44

split in the fan base over the past 13

37:46

months has been really really horrible to say Manchester

37:48

United have been anything United

37:52

and That's fine people

37:54

have had their opinions on it I wrote

37:56

as much that the level of the debate was getting

37:58

harder time that was for sale anyway

38:01

13 months later we have

38:03

a conclusion to that as we heard

38:08

and as I said it's not

38:10

dreadworld's liking obviously the Glazers

38:12

are still here rightly so

38:14

we have chance there tonight we want Glazers out

38:16

and we do unfortunately

38:19

the facts are that the Glazers didn't

38:21

want to sell Manchester United so

38:24

if that's what you wanted fair enough we all want

38:26

the Glazers to be united but they didn't want to

38:29

so what's the second best

38:31

solution and arguably we have

38:33

that with Ratcliffe and

38:36

in the off-operation coming in taking over the

38:38

football side of the business as

38:41

he said at half time there's an awful lot

38:43

to do as the lads down at West Ham

38:45

said there's clearly an awful lot to do we

38:48

know that United just scored a goal there for

38:50

the first time in half the far goal of

38:52

Premier League games or all the competition so it's

38:55

clearly not good enough the first half a lot of the old

38:58

failings were there Ratcliffe was still far and

39:00

we're saying it's one thing being distracted and

39:02

waving your arms and not getting the service

39:04

and then when you do get the service

39:06

and you first talk to your rubbish then

39:09

you sort of fart at your right to complete and you don't have to

39:11

do the rest of that much to screech for anyway so he's done absolutely

39:13

nothing to reinstate

39:15

his status among United fans tonight

39:17

and the lads at

39:19

the back are still tapping out to the main another

39:23

good performance at one point celebrating a clearance

39:28

fish pumps celebrating a

39:30

clearance that was great to see

39:32

the lads who came on Dangar

39:35

and Hannibal put on an injury time

39:37

they made some eyebrows but

39:39

the final whistle went really firm round everyone

39:42

there was he still giving it? who was?

39:44

so basically he was giving it all to

39:46

his nine minutes of injury time and just

39:48

watching the winner back yeah now how's it

39:51

how's it going in? oh no

39:53

no that was the first goal wasn't it? yeah

39:56

that's not what he said He's

40:00

got three header at the back post. And

40:02

you think that he went nowhere. We're nowhere near

40:04

the header and we're nowhere near the flick. It

40:06

was terrible pending. At

40:09

that point, the Villa fans were bouncing, singing about Unai

40:12

Emery as they had been doing before kickoff. And rightly

40:14

so, like I said, he's been doing a really good

40:16

job and I think that's good on him. But

40:19

they did bottle it second half, didn't they? They

40:21

were nowhere to be seen. And those Villa fans

40:24

certainly, certainly shut up as soon

40:26

as United's first goal went in, actually. He,

40:29

who I think potentially could have gone, could

40:31

Villa have gone top of the league? Well,

40:34

am I making that up? No, I'm making

40:36

that up. Either way, the elites went into

40:38

the match day second. So for

40:40

a team on that, I thought I'd won the form for the fans

40:42

to give up like that. It didn't look like that. That

40:45

was our first half. First half, yeah, well, the second half of

40:47

the day. They and their own teams gave up a little bit

40:49

the way we used to do. So

40:51

where's it Leibels? That's the end of the

40:54

year, but Old Trafford won away against the

40:56

club on the 30th. We

40:59

go into that with a lot more momentum now. Yeah,

41:03

the year of Old Trafford ends with a win.

41:05

And can we say the start of

41:07

a new era begins with

41:09

a win? We'll see. I

41:11

think we'll see. I think we say, I think we have to say,

41:14

actually, I think it is the start of a new era. It's the first time in 18

41:16

years that the Glades have given

41:19

up or sold of stake in

41:21

United. So it

41:23

is a new era of sorts. Personally,

41:26

I do

41:29

think the Manchester positive is not to

41:31

start. And I've voiced that before, written

41:33

about it, and we've spoken about it.

41:35

I think that's important. United don't need

41:37

that. On

41:39

the tram earlier today, when we came

41:41

from FC United, across the fadeaway Ashton,

41:43

coming across the FC Ad

41:46

Campus back into Manchester, Manchester

41:49

United, OK, Manchester United might need

41:51

those facilities. That's fair. But

41:54

United turn over. We just went

41:56

over £600 million. United

41:58

have some money. You

42:00

just need to be spent correctly in the

42:03

transfer market and in terms of

42:05

infrastructure. United don't need Qatar for

42:07

that. And that's

42:09

my opinion and you heard

42:11

opposing opinions to that earlier on. And

42:13

that's there. But now we

42:16

look forward, don't we? We look forward hopefully to a new

42:18

year and hopefully to a new era. And

42:22

if there is one last positive thing that I think

42:24

this part of the hope that this podcast today has

42:28

also showed is that

42:30

United's fan culture off the

42:32

pitch is alive and kicking. It's

42:34

vibrant, we are active and

42:37

whether that is Nathan selling reviews, whether

42:39

it's us lot doing United we stand,

42:41

whether in print or on the podcast,

42:44

Duncan and the others at Musk

42:48

providing their role as a

42:50

platform and a conduit for

42:52

United fans. Or whether

42:54

it's where we started over at XD United

42:56

those lots have been protesting against the Glazers

42:58

straight teen years and

43:00

as they were singing it's a merry, merry Christmas, a

43:03

happy new year and we're

43:05

still here aren't we? So up

43:08

the red and yeah, happy Christmas again and

43:10

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43:13

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