0:01

This. Is unorthodox. The Universe is

0:03

leading Jewish podcast coming to live

0:05

from southwest Florida. And

0:12

we're here today to celebrate Jewish joy.

0:14

And there's nothing more joyful than a

0:16

birthday. Ah, we're here under it and

0:19

Jane Bernstein's birthday. So I would like

0:21

to start by completely embarrassing her and

0:23

having us all sing happy Birthday into

0:25

this microphone. Ha! Ha!

0:31

Ha! De.

0:37

De de.

0:43

De. Hello

0:48

it's me Stephanie But the and this

0:51

with I am with out my to

0:53

co host Leah Leibovitz in Joshua Molina.

0:55

That's because as you just heard I'm

0:57

coming to you from sunny Southwest Florida

0:59

from a very special birthday party. We

1:01

were celebrating listener Jane Bernstein with the

1:04

beautifully Jewish Afternoon hosted by me and

1:06

Tanya Sooner we all shared our favorite

1:08

Jewish objects and then we let a

1:10

Shabbat candle dipped I workshop. It was

1:12

a beautiful day of Jewish pride, joy

1:14

and most of all conversation. We listen

1:16

to each other, learned each other, Stories

1:19

in shared in a truly intergenerational moment.

1:21

The Jewish tradition is one big story,

1:23

and if there was ever a time

1:25

to really sit and listen to someone

1:27

else and learn about their experience, it's

1:29

now. So that's what we're doing on

1:31

this week's episode. We turn to

1:34

members of the Jewish and non Jewish

1:36

community where modeling this kind of open

1:38

conversation. Across. Books, social media

1:40

and on college campuses. First.

1:42

Were speaking with no a Tisch Be

1:44

and the Manual Auto whose new book

1:46

is all about having difficult conversations but

1:49

Jews and Jewish topics. Then. In

1:51

honor of Young her show of this week. We. Listen

1:53

in on a conversation between actor

1:55

Michael Rapaport and Holocaust survivor Doctor

1:57

Elisa Arbor. It's. Part of an initiative.

2:00

During survivor stories to social media.

2:02

And. Finally we speak with Barnard College

2:04

senior know a said would become a

2:06

vocal advocate for Jewish students on campus.

2:09

For them to the countries that. Are

2:29

introduced or know it's history of the last other. So.

2:31

To talk about her but Israel. Simple

2:33

guide to the most misunderstood country on

2:35

earth. To back up with a new

2:38

book she co wrote with non Jewish

2:40

Nfl star and sports commentator Emanuel. Also

2:42

the book is called uncomfortable Conversations with.

2:44

A jew. During our conversation with is

2:47

also a Jew and gentile pair the talk

2:49

about what it's been like to learn from

2:51

each other and their experience watching The Spot

2:53

for the post October Seventh. Well. Here's

2:56

me and Josh Will Molina talking to know it

2:58

is be and. Emanuel A show. No

3:06

interest Me a manual auto. welcome

3:08

to unorthodox. Finally my now we're

3:10

here. Ah thank you for

3:12

having us. I have to be transparent with our

3:15

audience. We have done this before s last night

3:17

in front of like eleven hundred people a community

3:19

sitting on on my eyelids. It wasn't a say,

3:21

it was insane trial over three twelve hundred people.

3:23

There were so many people there and they were

3:26

so excited to hear. From you guys are

3:28

gonna ever seen a venue actually sold

3:30

out? Sisyphus? None. None of you know

3:32

you hear that values are going be

3:34

sold out with all your shirts. We

3:37

walked in there there was not and

3:39

series see yeah yeah his eyes and.

3:41

And so for me being in a city that that full

3:43

I said i was like this happens twice a year. Russia

3:46

signing up support herself or whatever.

3:48

It is yells at a standstill at side of

3:50

a pastor is bringing it the bring in a

3:52

synagogue down. And so

3:55

a manual. I want to start with you because

3:57

you're in this new universe of the Jews, right?

3:59

like your. The Synagogue last night. You're doing

4:01

all these events. What is the most

4:03

striking part of this book tour for you

4:05

I would say the the community that the

4:08

Jewish people have and hold a strong good.

4:10

I was talking to my agent. Who

4:12

happens to be Jewish? We write about

4:14

an ounce of partner my agent now

4:16

defunct Manda, the community the Jewish people

4:18

have. It's amazing. I mean the fact

4:20

it's we launched these different book tour

4:22

dates and they sold out in a

4:24

matter of hours. We had to open

4:26

up a more doors had striker arms

4:28

because we have sold that went out

4:31

as some a easing I mean I

4:33

did a book tour. I did a

4:35

book event in Austin, Texas where I

4:37

spent four years in college with Matthew

4:39

Mcconaughey who is a Texas legend and

4:41

I think we did like. Eight hundred

4:43

tickets to that event with like a month

4:45

and a half of of promotion. Meanwhile.

4:48

You know obviously that this book is

4:50

incredibly necessary. nothing to times or urgent.

4:52

But meanwhile, Know and I go on

4:54

this tour. And eleven hundred people After

4:56

eleven hundred people are we gots of thousand

4:58

people to wake up for breakfast in

5:00

Philly? Yeah, crazy. So to me being

5:02

a part of the Jewish culture, I

5:04

love it. As an outsider, just someone

5:06

who can marvel over some things. I

5:08

applaud the Jewish Culture Special. I was

5:10

curious as his live events do you take quest?

5:12

Yeah we we do We do you know? Honestly

5:15

though, Taking questioned gets very

5:17

anxious about because Jewish people are not

5:19

shy his assessment and I'm the blowing

5:21

a guy like dude they are real

5:23

not at all sigh of even at

5:26

are all my private like. Book.

5:28

Launch events I been like they're like

5:30

weren't more black people here my whoa,

5:32

I'm not prepared for that have ah

5:34

but of I they've They've all been special.

5:36

they bins best. I've been reading your

5:38

book and lover yet I love that

5:40

your ammo and your mission statement and

5:42

approaches to understand each other rather than

5:44

necessarily agree with each other. Than. Wonder

5:47

whether the Jewish audiences are able to follow suit

5:49

because sometimes jews are you in a way where

5:51

understand he isn't the final got up and try

5:53

to batter the other person it does of isn't.

5:56

Flourescent arguing as of one of

5:58

our superpowers. I don't. The. Yeah,

6:00

and Judaism is the only religion that has

6:02

been documenting dissenting views for thousands of years

6:04

and we are all about. I don't know

6:07

what do you think about that either knows

6:09

I disagree. So this is this is a

6:11

Jewish book In essence because we don't agree

6:13

on everything and are the streets a very

6:16

interesting conversation and also very helpful for the

6:18

Jewish community Because obviously this is this is

6:20

meant for everyone. So people they're not from

6:22

the Jewish community, which whatever you need to

6:24

know, whatever you want to ask about the

6:27

current cultural moment, how do we get here?

6:29

What is is about. Basic stuff like

6:31

quite as anti semitism. you know just

6:33

everything you know and for our community

6:35

for the juice Many I can tell

6:38

you how many times I have been

6:40

asked to my answer these questions and

6:42

somebody asks me like can they be

6:44

critical of Israel without being anti semitic

6:47

Like what a Zionism really means that

6:49

all it's and will have to answer

6:51

This is how Yancey Sessions We basically

6:53

brought it all out and that's it's

6:56

a striking about this book because no

6:58

A you really ground this. Is so

7:00

much history? Know emanuel? ask you a question.

7:02

it's and you'll have like. Pages.

7:04

And pages of of really, really

7:07

digestible, understandable exploitation of. Millennia,

7:10

Are very difficult. I did that and in

7:12

my first book as well as to try

7:14

and makes good a birds eye view that

7:16

themes and try to make it a simple

7:18

as possible and when it comes to Judaism,

7:20

Israel, Zionism like it's not it's not easy

7:22

but it's. Doable. But I think that's why

7:25

Know was the perfect coauthor. Because when I

7:27

first read her book, Israel and those that

7:29

haven't done that one yet, it's phenomenal. A

7:31

simple guide to the most misunderstood concern are

7:33

some things are not burdened with And put

7:36

God when I first read her book, Israel

7:38

is so complex. Oh my goodness. these concepts

7:40

incredibly complex. Against is a son of a

7:42

pastor. I've I've read about Jerusalem, I've read

7:44

about Nazareth, a read about Vi, and I've

7:47

read about mountains I and I've read about.

7:49

I heard the term Zion, but never in

7:51

regards to Zionism. but she made it so

7:53

simple. As simple as you can make it.

7:55

I mean others made it so simple to made

7:57

it as simple as it can be made in.

8:00

Or book. We go there. people just

8:02

talk but they don't really get a

8:04

real. And in our book I want

8:06

you know what? Know what I'm going to

8:08

go there? Can I really do? Got a

8:10

bunch of questions and I have questions. It's

8:12

the non Jewish community is asking but they're

8:14

either too afraid to ask or it comes

8:16

off as vitriol. They don't know how to

8:18

phrase a as and often times I love

8:20

the the phrase don't be so right that's

8:22

are wrong But most importantly you can be

8:24

right but wrong at the top your voice

8:26

and so in a safe space and a

8:28

comforting spaces that you know what know I

8:30

I might say something that would be called

8:33

anti semitic on twitter. But. Because it's

8:35

here in the space. I'm just gonna ask

8:37

it anyway. Susan Power. Jar.

8:39

Are Jews Jews seem super rich? You know

8:41

what I mean. Like are jews white? Like

8:43

I'm just gonna ask everything that a tweet

8:46

would get me cancelled potentially forth but because

8:48

of this real Ron safe space as just

8:50

go there. So that's that's why I love

8:52

the but I'm I'm on. It and that

8:54

kind of honesty and that kind of dialogues really

8:56

is something we don't let. E O L Window

8:58

did all these things that you're right, you're like

9:01

is this might be offensive but I am everquest

9:03

it Like as you put, I love that we

9:05

had some physicians about your stereotypes. It was one

9:07

of the most fun this conversation never because I

9:10

bet you every non jew is wondering about all

9:12

of these things like I just see blood to

9:14

see and then he asked me and one of

9:16

the assists. We talked about all of them like

9:18

when down to read like through all of them

9:21

and then he goes about it or any of

9:23

these stereotypes. Trails and like yeah,

9:25

the Jewish mother. Is

9:28

a definite Montreal's of there

9:30

is so. On this so unorthodox me

9:32

every week we have to guess we have

9:34

a Jewish guest and a gentile the week

9:36

and of you guys are really selling Israel

9:38

personal usually do it together. To her the

9:40

sense I have a son of a actually

9:42

gets asked us a question that is always

9:44

wondered about Judaism and so I love the

9:46

spirit of Seaboard as your vagina. I

9:49

doubt I'll. Have an answer in our

9:51

our listeners will buy the book and read

9:53

the questions and the answers but comes up

9:55

a lot from these questions. Basically boil down

9:57

to like. I'm. Chris. And

10:00

if I don't believe there's no place for me

10:02

if I if I don't accept the doctor and

10:04

I'm about does not what I don't keep going

10:07

to church, they're sort of like this. This point

10:09

at which there's no space for me and and

10:11

the question always ends with and all of my

10:13

Jewish friends say they don't believe in God says

10:15

I'll have enough for their so deeply do as

10:17

and I think a lot of dawn jews by

10:19

the way. Amazing that we called. Non Jews like

10:22

words such a tiny minority. Well, it's the

10:24

non jews and Arabs. And

10:26

jews struggled to understand how Jews

10:28

still sealed us despite not believing.

10:31

It was that most fascinating was

10:33

recently Passover. Are there no Passover?

10:35

Well because as a bid against Son of

10:37

a Passer I grew up in church. Every

10:39

service I was their first serve, a second service.

10:41

third servers are. I lived in church so

10:43

I know well the story of Passover. I

10:45

know well the the angel of Death and you

10:48

had to put blood on the door post and

10:50

all the things Thompson you're like wait a

10:52

second. If. You believe in a. Bible.

10:54

Or the torah the first thirty bucks. Why

10:56

celebrate Passover? Ah a bad match to me

10:58

by Gwi. You celebrate Christmas? Have you believe

11:00

in Jesus as I just i didn't make

11:02

sense of I called my agent once again

11:04

that you exist as as as another surprise

11:07

that you know I said you know what

11:09

I love. The. Fact that like you're

11:11

not a religious person. But. You

11:13

are with your family, your with

11:15

your loved ones, and you are

11:17

still acknowledging this incredibly meaningful. Sacred.

11:20

Holiday, I just was in awe to some

11:22

degree of the fact that like. Burrow.

11:25

He only even like. Fully. Believe in

11:27

this. In. Impetus story of

11:29

Passover. but you so much so

11:31

honor your culture. The Y'all are

11:33

so honoring this they the best

11:35

as amazing to me is fascinating,

11:37

fascinating, but it's an. Origin Story: Weather

11:39

has happened or didn't do her eye

11:42

for the non For the Jews the

11:44

don't believe in god or believe in

11:46

the scriptures as is. it's our origin

11:48

story. So. That's just where

11:50

we came from. We came from the

11:52

story of slavery, into the story of

11:54

freedom, into the story of self governance.

11:56

Actually, as interested as Passover as the

11:58

first Zionist holiday, Have you

12:00

went out of due to have a a

12:03

country the States. But here's what's fascinating was

12:05

saying to me though at work with someone

12:07

who is such a believer right? Because I

12:09

see myself as on the secular and a

12:11

believer at the same time. and it's you

12:13

can do that in Judaism space. I do

12:15

believe in higher power and I do believe

12:17

in the story of origin all that. But

12:19

when it comes to Israel right? Because the

12:21

Christian community. There is no question

12:24

about the and did you. Knew. The Of The Jewish People. To.

12:26

Land of Israel. And that is

12:28

something that a spin so twisted in

12:31

recent our current events that are happening

12:33

right now. For a person who is

12:35

a Christian if you tell them well

12:37

the Jews are white colonialists. Sunny just

12:39

came, there are nineteen forty eight and

12:41

have nothing to do A lot of

12:43

Israel though. go home so in that

12:45

sensors at least at baseline of reality

12:47

to work with and that is again

12:50

not even something that is particularly religious.

12:52

You. Can be religious and nonreligious. Still even

12:54

science and history to acknowledge that this

12:56

book is most fascinating to me as

12:58

a Christian because as a Christian there

13:00

is a natural propensity to understand Israel

13:02

and all things as we want mean

13:04

we understand like are are not our

13:06

faith but the resurrection if you will.

13:08

The second coming of contingent upon of

13:10

Israel if you to read the Book

13:12

of Revelations which is one of the

13:14

most like ah what is the Book

13:16

of Revelations It's all about like hey

13:18

Israel which we we understand the impetus

13:20

story of Israel We understand. The story

13:22

of Jacob wrestling with God and

13:25

changing his name to his relax

13:27

or it's so fascinating to me

13:29

and so really to the the

13:31

Christian community. I implore to read

13:33

this book like more than probably

13:35

any other communities. I implore to

13:37

read this book because there is

13:39

so much they're like. how can

13:41

you not be fascinated with the

13:43

turmoil of. Our hero Jesus

13:45

is kind of like birthplace. You have

13:47

to learn what else you doing. Good

13:49

life. If you're not completely.

13:52

Entrenching yourself into what is currently going

13:54

on in the Middle East like youths

13:57

to might.you've missed the mark. Now

13:59

number. Because Asians are so we

14:01

didn't talk about yes the his plus Jesus

14:03

a Palestinian so. Sorry

14:06

I don't know that I'm recall that. Did the

14:08

jews kill jews and blacks? yeah you guys go

14:10

he started so the dog away back. With Alan

14:13

Jazz and plus well it because I think

14:15

you have to move to a large degree

14:17

and that is again one of the major

14:19

probably a bit of of anti semitism is

14:22

fascinating is fascinating because in church we always

14:24

talk about one who killed Jesus who killed

14:26

his with the Romans with to choose of

14:28

the realms of the do some be was

14:30

it was the do some people say it

14:33

was Romans what is no and I were

14:35

talking about that chapter. Ultimately it's irrelevant because.

14:38

We. Believe Christians believe Jesus had

14:40

to. He. Was born to die so

14:42

that he could rise again for the So

14:44

for the forgiveness of our sins. So even

14:46

the argument about who kill Jesus is so

14:49

asinine to the so relevant. And I feel

14:51

like if you take a step back out

14:53

of the micro and into the macro, you

14:55

can understand what are you arguing for. And

14:58

I believe that's a parallel to society right

15:00

now, especially what's going on in college campuses.

15:02

What are y'all actually arguing for? Now do

15:05

we actually know? Or are we just arguing

15:07

Argue? Are we just standing there because we

15:09

know Tv crews are gonna be out there

15:11

like what are we actually arguing about and

15:14

and that, why did you school Jesus as

15:16

may be my. Third, Favorite

15:18

ssssss my say that hundred confirmed

15:20

that he did not least thrive.

15:22

Yeah well the that for. Us

15:24

and vibe to the conversation also. first of

15:26

all doesn't matter because he had to according

15:28

to the Christian beliefs and also even if

15:30

they did have to, well why would you

15:32

be anti semitic two thousand years later towards

15:34

another do that wasn't there. It's all very

15:36

bizarre but I think it's a really interesting

15:38

point you bring up a manual about wanting

15:40

for since read this book with as it

15:42

does feel as a lot of christians have

15:44

this biblical appreciation for Israel but they might

15:46

I know any jews right they might not

15:48

have ever met a jew and so for

15:50

to them as jews are these people from

15:52

the bible and the matter they. Still live

15:54

and breathe and know of represents them so

15:57

well in this book As like funny dynamics

15:59

are intellect. The Things: I'm also not

16:01

a monolith, as you say, It's interesting

16:03

you brought that up because. Obviously I

16:05

don't think so. but growing gop I probably

16:07

thought of like a Jewish person is a

16:10

mythical creature. I've never. Some software allows split

16:12

probably.about like of things in the bible or

16:14

ancient everything. The Bible Things we don't use

16:16

the term gentile anymore, We don't use harm

16:19

like do we don't. You sad to see

16:21

Ferris the all these biblical and first thirteen

16:23

but terms it only use that anymore so

16:25

you see hear. The. Term and the words.

16:27

You But You I got. Where. Does the

16:30

seems archaic seemed are cake like we forget

16:32

Jesus was a jew the Jewish carpenter but

16:34

like night was he was christian. I

16:37

get the less about what effect. Of

16:39

so wrong. I'm so honestly having

16:41

to stop and ponder what you

16:43

thought your whole life and really

16:45

sit in it and making subconscious

16:47

thoughts become conscious thoughts. That was

16:49

such a beautiful part not just

16:51

in the book about i'm not really

16:54

here to sell a book but

16:56

thou such a the most beautiful

16:58

part And conversation with Noah is

17:00

like. Well. Let me

17:02

challenge what I've just mindlessly thought for

17:04

so. Many aired Yeah I just open your

17:06

eyes on so many things and about like

17:08

what Are the Jews today? I just can't

17:11

wait to open your eyes with some hot

17:13

girls in Tel Aviv when. We go there and seven

17:15

when I. Thought

17:18

I have assets and will on

17:20

the bus or is can be

17:22

amazed at how I got to

17:24

be like wait what? what's known

17:26

as home Alabama Dinner Front attendees

17:28

that are both launch event sciences

17:30

or if we focused on were

17:32

assessed. It's another a lot of Jewish mans in

17:34

the audience last night who would have been like. Here's.

17:37

A number on the Hannah I'm going to

17:39

no doubt sexy about Emanuel said something about

17:41

being single. That's I'm single and I'm like,

17:43

oh, don't say that in the synagogue over

17:45

a leader be married off and against. Five.

17:48

Curious and reading the book. your dialogue is

17:50

so open. Your so open to each other,

17:53

so understanding, so respectful. Did. You

17:55

ever have any pricks enduring and of

17:57

these conversations does it ever get heated?

18:00

Very much so. Yeah, I mean the

18:02

biggest point of contention is chapter sixteen:

18:04

How the Book almost didn't happen. So

18:06

chapter one: How the Book happens after

18:08

sixteenths we talk about how Know and

18:10

I have such of a sharp disagreement

18:12

that the book fell apart. Know when

18:14

I truly didn't talk listeners for three

18:17

weeks, we just stopped talking. After October

18:19

seventh we we fell apart. The book

18:21

fell apart. We didn't speak. Finally, our

18:23

agents set up a zoom call and

18:25

know a looks at me. And

18:27

she says. Well. Assistance as

18:29

story pass everything up and and this is

18:31

not a joke like I walked away of

18:34

so sad it was after it's over seventh

18:36

we be you know can etc it and

18:38

talked it out any became very clear to

18:40

me that it's much more important this book

18:42

happens then what I perceive to be a

18:44

wrong thing at the time and I knew

18:46

that it was a very boss moment and

18:48

times as after all of this is said

18:50

and done When we tennis cleared it out

18:52

decided to go back to writing the both

18:54

I looked at him and I said you

18:56

know this is going in the book. right?

18:59

As is seen as which, finding out

19:01

all of this is Oliver and it.

19:03

Is and this is chance to succeed. From people

19:05

that read the book tell us that this is

19:07

where the but The Kanzi exciting. Very Ross

19:09

very can like on your edgy siege

19:11

of feel. Very uncomfortable. And then people

19:13

also ask us how ya still friends after

19:16

that and we go. That's that's how you

19:18

do at. the only way out is through

19:20

when you have to go through things that

19:22

are uncomfortable to get to the other side.

19:24

Something that we don't do these days and

19:26

for our community were afraid to have these

19:28

conversations. When people ask me how do I

19:30

have a conversation about anti Semitism Zionism I

19:32

got the first things don't get triggered. To.

19:35

Still get triggered. That's. The number once

19:37

and then have the answers and that's all

19:39

we are able to do. So all in

19:41

a was a very useful thing that we

19:43

were able to. I'm really really make a

19:46

lemonade out of a lemon and I'm so

19:48

proud of us and makes are much better.

19:50

Book Will that's what so impressive about your

19:52

partnership is ever saw This book started several.

19:54

Years ago, right of Free Daves October seventh and

19:57

of us and everyone is talking about all these

19:59

things at this. Like literally this

20:01

week. I mean campuses are blowing

20:03

up. But what's so impressive is

20:05

that you guys both have such

20:08

big platforms, right? There's so much going on.

20:10

There's so much at stake for both of

20:12

you. And yet you're really committed to having

20:14

these difficult conversations even as posting

20:16

your Instagram live with Noah after October 7th got

20:18

you in trouble with people who said, why aren't

20:20

you showing the other side? I mean there's so

20:23

much at stake for both of you because there's

20:25

so many people who are looking to you for

20:27

clarity for answers. So how do you sort of

20:29

navigate that with these high profile roles that you

20:31

both have? This is much more of an Emmanuel

20:33

answer because after we posted for the first time

20:36

when it became public that we're writing this book

20:38

together, he called me up after two hours or so

20:40

he goes, oh my God, the amount of hate.

20:42

So he's the one who's taking the heat. I'm

20:44

already branded the Zionist B, right? So people who

20:47

love me love me and people who hate me

20:49

hate me. That's just done. Can

20:52

I can I say that word? It's Zionist bitch. I'm

20:54

the Zionist bitch. If

20:57

you love me, you love me. If you don't,

20:59

you're already, you know, the Hadid family blocked me

21:01

entirely like years ago. I'm very proud of it.

21:03

So it's much more. He has so much more

21:05

to lose here and he did. He's getting a

21:07

lot of heat for it. Yeah, she's

21:10

right. It's been hard. It's been hard. I

21:13

move with my convictions and I felt

21:15

convicted to pursue this project. I

21:17

felt as though we truly can accomplish more together.

21:19

If you want to go fast, go alone. If

21:22

you want to go far, go together. And I

21:24

believe as a society, we can go further. If

21:26

we go together, to me, it's only hard because

21:29

people are coming at me before they even

21:31

know where I stand. I'm like just

21:33

by association to and with Noah. Now I

21:35

am promoting genocide and now I'm for the

21:37

death of people and I'm promoting slavery and

21:40

I'm dancing for the man and I'm a

21:42

pro colonizer and I'm all these things. And

21:44

I'm like, y'all don't, y'all haven't

21:46

even read the book. The majority of the book is

21:48

me pushing back. The majority of the book

21:51

is literally me being like, no, no, I don't agree

21:53

with this. I don't agree with that. Okay, tell me

21:55

more about this. So it's unfortunate,

21:57

but I often say like your calling is

21:59

your call. It's not a conference

22:01

call and I was called to

22:03

move in this direction So if other people don't

22:05

understand it, they weren't called in the same breath.

22:07

So it's tough It's that

22:09

and you know, what can you do criticism is

22:11

the cost of praise So as much as like

22:13

the Jewish community and other communities are thanking me

22:16

other communities hate me and you know comes with

22:18

it That's we're all applauding you right?

22:20

Yeah, every single person who's listening to this right now is

22:22

going. Thank you so much You know what? It means it

22:24

means so much to us to see What

22:27

you're doing and and just this desire to

22:29

learn and understand and push back against some

22:31

of those preconceived notions is so powerful And

22:33

so meaningful to us. Thank you. Oh little

22:35

people do it Yeah, so rare to do

22:37

it and take the heat to do it.

22:39

I couldn't wear Antisemitism

22:42

obviously I wear being black in America.

22:44

So I understand what that feels like

22:46

racism all those different types of things

22:48

But I was leaving the restaurant says true story.

22:50

I was in West Hollywood. It's 9 o'clock at

22:52

night. The environment is dimly lit I'm walking out

22:54

of the restaurant by myself black jeans black t-shirt

22:56

and minding my own business when I'm out I

22:58

usually try to be discreet. I don't like to

23:00

bother people I don't like to be bothered and

23:03

I'm walking out of this restaurant a woman

23:05

says something to my left speaking to me

23:07

I assume she's simply saying like hey,

23:10

can I take a picture? Maybe hey love what you

23:12

do? Hey I don't

23:14

know Why are the Eagles your favorite team? Whatever the

23:16

case may be so I look to my left to

23:18

see what she says and all I hear her say

23:20

is she looks me Glaringly in the eyes is I

23:23

hope they paid you well So

23:26

now hair on my head and back my

23:28

neck it stands up because it's that fight-or-flight

23:30

moment But I say excuse me She says

23:32

I hope they paid you well So

23:35

then I look at her cuz I'm not backing down like I

23:37

was ready for this. I said who is they? She

23:39

looks at me and she says, you know who they are But

23:42

now in order to get her to actually say

23:44

you're not gonna cop out you stopped me. So

23:46

let's go there I say again who is They

23:51

She says Zionists. I

23:53

look at her I say my goal and my

23:55

hope is to pursue love pursue peace pursue unity

23:57

now in an effort to diffuse the situation I

23:59

assess my surroundings. I see she's at a table

24:01

with three other individuals. So it's four individuals in

24:03

total. I say, hey, what's your name? She

24:06

replies, you don't deserve my name. At

24:09

that point in time, I said, you know what, I'm

24:11

exiting this conversation. So I looked at her, I said,

24:13

I hope you'll enjoy your dinner. God bless. And I

24:15

just tapped the table twice. And I walked out. But

24:17

the crux of the story is when I got into

24:19

my car, and I tell the story, I have a

24:21

maybe like a Lexus something, I don't know what kind

24:23

of guard is, it's all black with black windows. The

24:25

windows are so tinted, I can't see out. And you

24:27

definitely can't see in. It's like, that's how dark the

24:30

windows are. And so I

24:32

got in my car, and I was like, I wonder if

24:35

she's gonna try to T bone me, or if she might

24:37

try to push me in traffic, I said, Wait a second.

24:39

This is how Jewish people feel. I'm 622

24:42

hundred 35 pounds for those that

24:44

are listening. I'm not a small person drafted

24:46

into the National Football League, played linebacker in

24:48

the NFL for four years. And I was

24:50

still worried about my safety. I

24:52

couldn't imagine how Noah would have felt if

24:54

the same thing happened to her. Like genuinely,

24:56

that was my first thought. After I drove

24:59

in my car was like, if

25:01

this would happen to Noah, like what that what would she

25:03

do? I'd be scared for my

25:05

life. So I for the first time

25:07

understood what it must have felt like to

25:10

be Jewish in today's

25:12

society. Which is extraordinary,

25:14

because apparently you can be a victim

25:16

of an anti Semitic attack, even

25:19

if you're not Jewish. And that's that was a

25:21

great I was blown away when he told me

25:23

that for the first time. And I said to

25:25

Emmanuel, I said, this is anti Semitism 101. Right?

25:27

Just the sheer fact that you believe that Israel has the

25:29

right to exist. I don't like wars, but I believe

25:32

Israel has rights exist. Right? Immediately,

25:35

the conclusion is the Jews are paying you.

25:37

It can't be for any other reason, but the

25:39

Jews are paid, which is a wild concept. Like

25:41

also they just don't pay you hard. Like,

25:44

it's not gonna pay is definitely not

25:47

enough. But it's just a wild concept

25:49

that like, the Jews are

25:51

like what Is to me

25:54

is just dumb. It's low level thinking

25:56

of slow hanging fruit. Like let's have

25:58

intellectual let's have elevated conversation. If

26:00

you want to ask a amanda why are

26:02

you doing this and why aren't you for

26:04

writing a book with the Palestinian I get

26:06

that to I would reply a book writing

26:08

process is two years and you also have

26:10

to have a suitable partner know and I

26:12

didn't write this yesterday and of you have

26:14

with people wanted have elevated conversations of contentions

26:16

by all means That's the beauty of what

26:18

know when I do in the books less

26:20

have elevated disagreements but let's not have like

26:22

low hanging child is slow intellectual disagreements while

26:24

I'm I'm in. All of that that sorry

26:26

and just let you are going through

26:29

attempt to be part of this conversation.

26:31

We have a lot of listeners who

26:33

are either on college campuses themselves, parents

26:35

of kids on college campuses. What would

26:37

you say to someone listening who is

26:39

a Jewish student on a college campus

26:41

and ceiling other feeling uncomfortable? Maybe feeling

26:43

unsafe and just feeling scared and alone?

26:46

Oh. My God. So first of all,

26:48

his year, however, is listening to

26:50

this right now. And college. Or

26:52

who has been college in the

26:54

past, like ten years, or even

26:56

more colleges then the front line

26:58

of the war against Israel and

27:00

against Jewish people for very long

27:02

time. This word been waged on

27:04

college campuses, not by accident, by

27:06

by design. For over thirty years,

27:08

this was an axle strategy that

27:10

they decided to execute and have

27:12

in doing this. Better

27:14

than probably they expected. So that's the

27:16

first thing to understand. The second thing

27:19

to understand. And for all college kids

27:21

and adults and same this right now.

27:23

Stay. Strong, Just stay strong. What's

27:25

happening right now between October Seventh

27:28

and October Eighth, and them Madness

27:30

on campus right now needs to

27:32

be looked at through the prism

27:34

of five thousand years of Jewish

27:36

existence. Nut through. America.

27:39

Twenty twenty four because the

27:41

mistake. That we made as a community. Is

27:43

sinking. That it's gone. The.

27:45

Mistake was the expectation that anti semitism

27:48

is done okay and the mistake the

27:50

we made was to think that assimilation

27:52

is complete. The mistake with the we

27:54

made was to see that we don't

27:56

need to look into identity and our

27:58

roots and are background and li them

28:00

to read and to think that would

28:02

just like some everybody else because to

28:04

some extent we're just not which is

28:06

not and it's okay. There's something incredible

28:08

about Judaism that is it's universal and

28:10

particular rates so God is everyone's got

28:12

much as it.of the jews that the

28:14

jews of a particular way of cut

28:16

a been this is who we are

28:18

and everybody from the outside is going

28:20

to look at us at some point

28:22

throughout history as the other. We had

28:24

a great few decades run and now

28:26

we're at it again. But it's not

28:28

something you would just sad Passover. The

28:30

hold over the coming well in order for

28:32

that of every generation they're coming to get

28:34

us. This is just. One more of

28:36

these things said to everybody, that's

28:39

anywhere near a college campus right

28:41

now. Just remember how this ends.

28:44

And. We don't just survive it, we thrive

28:46

it. So this happened before. it will

28:48

happen again. We know what to do.

28:50

We actually on a Dna levels know

28:52

what to do and we're. In trouble.

28:54

And. Just do that. Lean in.

28:57

Be proud. And calm down.

28:59

We're gonna get through this. What?

29:01

Do you think that be the relationship and

29:04

a partnership that the two of you have

29:06

can be used as some sort of paradigm

29:08

for the court. A Good sides on college

29:10

campuses to understand each other is beyond that.

29:13

That's the intention. Yeah, Verlander and I will.

29:15

I would say it's probably beyond that, but

29:17

in all honesty, in certain places, certainly a

29:19

certain campuses it sounds of only whom. Yeah,

29:21

but are under again. If if you want

29:24

to cause campus and all synthesize both of

29:26

the questions together, ask yourself what. Is

29:28

your intention? The most

29:31

important questionably we can ask ourselves before we

29:33

do anything was your intention If your intention

29:35

to go out on this cause campus is

29:37

to bring forth peace in our world. Is.

29:39

That the best way to do it. Is

29:42

that the best way to do? it's is

29:44

your intention to post a viral tic.video Then

29:46

of course go out there so some drama

29:48

and it'll get summary tweets. But if your

29:50

intention to bring forth peace been. More.

29:53

To out there for. But. No and eyes

29:55

intention and writing this book was to bring

29:57

forth p Soaps That's what our intention was

29:59

or. Your intention is for peace. I think

30:01

there are more efficient ways to execute that.

30:04

I tell people all the times. After the

30:06

murder of George Floyd I went on know

30:08

marches know. Instead of going outside I went

30:10

inside. I realized that my voice was my

30:12

sword. And. Instead of going out holding a

30:14

sign or wrote a book, I didn't use a

30:17

pen on cardboard. I used a pen and paper

30:19

and it's been read by having three hundred fifty

30:21

thousand people now. So. My

30:23

intention was to make change and

30:25

the most efficient way I can

30:27

make changes in writing a book.

30:29

Know and eyes intention is to

30:31

bring forth peace, unity agitation, Ask

30:34

the protesters and even cause kids that are

30:36

it's this was your intention man and sometimes

30:38

the best thing you can do is walk

30:41

away. Now let's check. I mean it's s

30:43

as. Cities ask me what would

30:45

I asked these are agitated, is

30:47

anti anti Israel fell from us

30:49

and instead synthesiser simple with a

30:51

plan. For. Said let's Israel does

30:54

down. Let's play hands the sisters. I'm I'm

30:56

pretty sure that Cassie, A, Becky Legacy, a

30:58

Karen and Becky from Virtually will not turn

31:00

on that. Know what to tell me? Bless.

31:03

Their hearts when I would just that. I

31:05

think the understanding has to go both ways

31:07

and as sometimes I get. Uncomfortable.

31:10

When. Parts. Of the

31:12

Jewish community paint all pro Palestinian protest

31:14

as pro Hamas at the Bears the

31:16

reality seem to be made it said.

31:19

You. Can be Jewish and pro Palestinian. I

31:21

am Jewish and pro Palestinian. I mile

31:23

Israeli A Pro. Palestinian. I say this

31:26

until I'm blue in the face.

31:28

I said it is already signed

31:30

Bedroom When you are right now

31:32

on campus, you're right now protesting

31:34

against Israel. You demanding Israel to

31:36

cease fire when it's a monster

31:38

doesn't wanna see Sire you are

31:40

pro com us. So this is

31:42

not a generalization to say that

31:44

every pro Palestinian person is pro

31:46

hum. I'm thousand in that these

31:48

campus agitators. These campuses. They don't

31:50

understand that but the actually pro

31:52

some of their rehashing Jihadi propaganda.

31:55

That's. What they're doing right now whether they like it

31:57

or not. So before you go, I want to talk about

31:59

the title of this. Look, uncomfortable conversations with a

32:01

do we hear on the podcast are bringing

32:03

back the words you were saying. Oh hell

32:05

yeah. So we don't. We don't want to.

32:07

Label ask me whether I'm offended by it

32:09

off again as as I am a So

32:11

but but this was a point of contention,

32:13

right? Oh no. As an Exodus Intense. I

32:15

wasn't intensive, it was the point now

32:18

of. Surprise.

32:20

Yeah, yeah, whatever. The great yeah, there was

32:22

no contented I wanted to call the book

32:24

Uncomfortable conversations with a Jewish person or Jewish

32:26

woman. At. First I was like a was

32:28

called uncomfortable conversation with the Jewish woman first title was

32:31

uncomfortable has a with a black man to make sense

32:33

but then I was like you know what reduced to

32:35

live in a sexist society was caught uncomfortable conversations with

32:37

a Jewish person. To bottom of I see a bunch

32:39

of men picking up a book that has woman in

32:41

the title says you know trying to be a businessman

32:44

if you will But then I got a call from

32:46

my team in the like a manual as was up

32:48

said. No. One has any. Of

32:51

my sight as aware but i'm thinking to

32:53

what like dark really that many artists sfs

32:56

to was percent jewish women there aren't a

32:58

lot of office I thought no wanted to

33:00

change it to jewish woman from jewish person

33:02

as as was want to send it to.

33:05

ah my agent like begrudgingly says. Uncomfortable.

33:08

Conversations with it's. As

33:11

i stopped and I don't know nobody's i

33:13

saw know like. I

33:16

kind a lot air because I was like

33:18

intentionally inflammatory as as like I kind of

33:20

loved as like the play on what because

33:22

it's uncomfortable and the Book of Income Two

33:24

and a tunnel with. I guess

33:27

it there are so it wasn't content in

33:29

as much that was Likes: I didn't think

33:31

you'd I don't like saying you many mental

33:33

thing I don't like saying it. Personally I

33:36

like saying jewish person's you think it's essentially

33:38

for. Such as we knew then

33:40

that will literally programs to think

33:42

That saying. A Jew as a member

33:44

of the Day of work and I'm just

33:47

like know know where Leary claiming that every

33:49

time know as says that I'm reminded could

33:51

go back and look at the history in

33:53

America about African Americans. You

33:55

go from the N word than you go to Negro. and

33:58

you go to color than you go to African America. Then

34:00

you got a black. The go back African American so

34:02

often times now and tog people bikes. Yeah, you know

34:04

we have an African American or my bro just a

34:06

black. You. Know to me I just

34:08

say black but like I it's because

34:10

society has always like try to navigate

34:12

well what what is it? And historically

34:14

speaking that term different terms of been

34:16

used in a derogatory facets. I guess

34:18

that's probably how I feel about our

34:20

juice and often times. People

34:23

don't say black light. You. Not

34:25

I mean people might realize you

34:27

know those blacks and I won't

34:30

have to sound advice about another

34:32

sound or a next. So I

34:34

think of a non Jewish person

34:36

under the presidency. I. Had

34:40

advised satellite even say it right south or

34:42

yeah that was a dive I'm Sally So

34:44

happy is lifers as like this came up

34:46

and that woman was like to very specific

34:48

and the percent of like absolutely not and

34:51

I just had this. Like

34:53

a Seals and I call made it a like

34:55

i'm gonna say something I'm going to put it

34:57

right there. Don't say anything cause I know you're

35:00

going to have reactions as I. As. That's

35:02

the Titus and I'm gonna just leave it here.

35:04

And I'm gonna go Zeal! and by the

35:06

time I come back all. Of. Murder the be

35:09

convinced and obviously know and then they told me that

35:11

Emanuel love the right way unless of course he did

35:13

my and around I would hate it by as my

35:15

son said why disease which are basically says like i

35:17

thought you would hate it. And like knows

35:19

both really like it so that was no

35:21

no contents and they allow is actually like

35:23

we're both the like let's go in the

35:25

zoos Thank you for. Or

35:28

for the successor and. Are uncomfortable stations with

35:30

a do and then you'll also notice that

35:32

with her. Parents are having

35:34

as is was great job

35:36

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36:31

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36:36

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36:38

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36:40

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36:44

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to submit your essay please visit tabletmed.com/essay Contest.

37:37

Actor and comedian Michael Rapaport has

37:39

appeared on Friends, Prison Break, and

37:42

much more since October Seventh has

37:44

been using his large social media

37:46

platforms vociferously support Israel. And. The Jewish

37:48

community. He's. Part of this year's

37:50

Sharing Memories project led by Mehta in

37:52

Israel and he has really aid organization

37:54

the Tech. The project brings holocaust survivor

37:56

stories to social media in honor. Of

37:59

Yom Shower. Mother was paired with

38:01

Elisa Herbert survivor and he didn't child

38:03

who ultimately became a doctor and Rabbinic

38:05

passer. Elisa was recently honored with the

38:07

Torture Freedom Award for Thirty Six, The

38:09

Summit in Abu Dhabi. you can hear

38:11

Elisa inspiring story and Michael Social Media

38:14

House. I chatted with them right after

38:16

they say. Here's my

38:18

conversations: Nicorette Conductor on these

38:20

arrests. Of

38:28

these and Michael, it's so moving to watch

38:30

you in conversation with each other. And the

38:33

thing that I was thinking was that since

38:35

October seventh, you've both been. In. The

38:37

Public Eye A Lot Michael Obviously you have

38:39

long been in the public eye but little

38:41

differently now in what you're doing and Elisa

38:43

you our beloved in your community and have

38:46

done such amazing stuff for for the most

38:48

part are a private citizen who is now

38:50

you know to us is is everywhere your

38:52

images broadcasts. You know not a landlord America

38:54

that it is. You're traveling all over the

38:56

world and I'm curious for each me to

38:59

just tell me a little bit about what

39:01

your life since October seventh has been like

39:03

and what inspired these activities on your part.

39:05

Ah I didn't find out until. October

39:07

eighth and it was. Like

39:10

a ton of bricks and literally sell

39:12

on Miss. Physically I couldn't wrap

39:14

my brain around it. I

39:17

couldn't sink, I couldn't seem.

39:19

It was like a wall

39:21

erected itself between. My son's

39:23

a low than the rest

39:25

of me is in now,

39:27

the upset of what happened.

39:30

On. October seventh isn't over it. Sitting

39:32

Disney I can says actually seal

39:34

it. but that's why I was

39:36

happy to go to Abu Dhabi

39:38

and have an international form to

39:40

talk about the hidden children in

39:42

what's going on. I

39:44

mean our changed since October,

39:46

so I can't quite. Answer.

39:49

That yet because I feel like we're

39:51

still in. It's because. There's.

39:54

Still a war going on. As.

39:56

We record this: there's still so many

39:59

hostages. And. There's still

40:01

so much fear. And on

40:03

the answer questions but. You.

40:05

Know I've learned a lot about

40:07

where we stand, where you stand

40:09

in the world. And Twenty Twenty

40:11

Three Twenty Twenty Four. I'm surprised

40:14

by that. I understand a lot

40:16

more were Israel. Stands: In

40:18

the world. But. To be totally

40:20

honest how I've changed his to be

40:22

determined because where I feel like I'm

40:24

still in it so much. but like

40:26

Elisa said, you know it is been

40:28

for me. The reason why I've been

40:30

so outspoken is because it has been

40:33

hard to shake. Immensely

40:35

hard to see. You. As

40:37

such a strong speak to him and is.

40:39

Also full of a city to city.

40:41

When you talk and to me that's

40:44

the most important parts. So. You

40:46

need to speak more on try and and

40:48

and you know and and when I am

40:50

speaking I am speaking on. A

40:53

speaker on Jews Bass. I'm speaking

40:55

on. The. Survivors

40:57

Bath I'm speaking on the Hostage

40:59

Families bath. I'm speaking on behalf

41:01

of the hostages. I'm speaking on

41:04

behalf of you. That's. Where

41:06

is my energy and my vigor

41:08

comes from? And. This conversation you

41:11

to just had. it's been pockets for social

41:13

media, you know, and it's this is the

41:15

generation we have to reach. It's I'm curious

41:17

from both of you how you feel that

41:19

the ways Communicated has changed as you know

41:21

that there is a generation who is getting

41:23

other news online and and has both of

41:25

you have adapted to sort of these sort

41:27

of short bursts of attention that people seem

41:29

to have now and why it's so important

41:32

to be part of that those conversations in

41:34

the spaces as. You guys are doing

41:36

with this project. I have definitely

41:38

changed. I didn't know if it's

41:40

a function of thing older or

41:43

completely a function of October Seventh,

41:45

but have become more introspective. I

41:47

sink. Before I

41:49

blurt that, have also learned

41:51

that holding back four minutes

41:53

getting settled in my brain

41:56

and then saying has more

41:58

power. It. Is more. intelligence when

42:00

it comes out, it's more articulate when

42:02

it comes out, and it's

42:04

more to the point rather than just

42:06

the emotional outburst that I used to

42:08

do. I'm glad for

42:11

this change because people will listen

42:13

more. They will hear me better

42:15

by speaking that way and being

42:18

that way. I've definitely thought more,

42:20

but the emotions, I

42:23

don't have to temper my emotions because my

42:25

emotions regarding everything around October

42:27

7th are not. They don't deplete. So

42:30

I have been trying to be a

42:32

little bit more specific about what I'm

42:34

saying because it's important to articulate

42:36

all of ourselves, and it's important for

42:38

me to articulate myself in

42:40

something that's so serious. It's not a mundane

42:43

pop culture thing. It's a very, very,

42:46

very, very, very serious, severe situation. We're

42:48

sitting here very calmly. Do you want to

42:50

know the truth? I am so

42:53

pealed. I am so angry. I

42:55

want to get on the rooftop and shout.

42:58

You know, people had shouted from the

43:00

rooftop, my biological father may

43:02

not have been murdered at Auschwitz. This

43:05

is unconscionable what they did. It's 6.30

43:07

in the morning. People are barely waking

43:09

up. Murder,

43:12

rape, cutting off breasts,

43:16

the cruelty and barbarism of all

43:18

of this. And

43:20

now you're crying to me because

43:22

Israel's retaliating. Hello? Go

43:25

back to the source. Go back to history. Learn

43:28

your history. Learn your history. Know what

43:30

you're talking about. So

43:32

I'm still mad. I'm still angry. Well,

43:34

thank you both for talking to us and we're going to be

43:36

sure all of our listeners Thank

43:58

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International Program. We're

45:00

all watching the situation across college campuses

45:02

and most keenly at Columbia, where

45:04

the anti-Israel protesters continue to disrupt

45:06

campus life. Our next

45:09

guest is Bong-old senior Noah Faye, who talked

45:11

to me about what it's like to be

45:13

an outspoken Zionist on campus. Noah

45:21

Faye, welcome to UnOrthodox. Thank

45:23

you so much for having me. Thank you,

45:25

Stephanie. I would like to set the scene

45:28

of your Zoom screen because I see you're

45:30

in your dorm with a big Israeli flag

45:32

behind you. Yes, my Israeli flag, it's always

45:34

with me. So a few

45:36

days ago, a friend sent me a video of a

45:38

press conference on Columbia's campus and

45:40

said, fast forward to minute nine, you have to

45:42

hear this young woman speak. And

45:44

you gave this really, really impassioned

45:46

address. My peers, my

45:49

friends, my family are

45:51

afraid. I cannot walk around

45:53

my own campus looking visibly Jewish

45:55

without preparing myself for the possibility

45:57

that someone might spit on or

46:00

talk me. We have been afraid

46:02

all year and I am done with it.

46:05

I'm no longer afraid. I'm extremely

46:07

angry. I'm furious that

46:09

we now go to school in a police

46:11

state. I have to go

46:13

through checkpoints just to get to class, but

46:16

I am not mad at the police because of

46:18

it. I am angry with the

46:20

students who have put us all in this

46:22

position and I am angry with the administration

46:24

for letting them. So tell us how we

46:26

got here to you saying I'm

46:28

not scared anymore. I'm angry. Like where

46:30

does this story start for you? This

46:32

story starts for me on October 7th.

46:34

It's important to

46:37

remember that the anti-Israel community

46:39

at Columbia was here

46:41

way before October 7th. This has

46:43

been a problem that the university

46:45

has had actually for a few

46:47

decades now, but for this year,

46:49

absolutely this started for me on

46:51

October 7th. I am extremely angry.

46:53

I am only able

46:55

to report on and indulge

46:58

that emotion because

47:01

I went through the

47:04

debilitating sadness and grief

47:07

and depression and

47:10

feeling of isolation. All of that

47:12

I went through in the first

47:14

semester. I took these protests

47:16

and these demonstrations at face value from

47:18

the very beginning, which is to say

47:21

as distraught as we all are now

47:23

from the various forms of

47:25

escalation that we've seen, that's

47:28

how I was feeling from the very

47:30

beginning because even though things have escalated

47:32

to an insane degree, of course, the

47:35

students have been saying the same things

47:38

for the entire year, which is to say

47:40

they've been calling to globalize the Antifada starting

47:43

on October 7th. Now, I mean

47:45

things are they're being louder and

47:47

more people are joining them, which

47:49

is why it's more disturbing, but

47:52

I'm no longer depressed about this. I'm

47:54

really, really mad because of how we've

47:56

let it get this far when in

47:58

the beginning the Jews On

48:00

a campus including including myself, we were

48:03

very outspoken about how disturbing this was

48:05

to As and nobody. Nobody really listened

48:07

and now everybody's affected. So now we're

48:09

all obviously very distraught. which is, you

48:12

know? I guess that's what it takes

48:14

to listen to a future students And

48:16

done with as I'm ready to see

48:18

it through. I met each. I'm ready

48:21

to wrap this up. Know it's

48:23

amazing to says has become a national news

48:25

story, but this is also your campus right?

48:27

This is where you're studying for finals, having

48:29

to sort of like grab a bite to

48:31

eat. So what is this? What is the

48:34

vibe for you. Right there right now.

48:36

We're in a bit of a and

48:38

bizarre in limbo this semester wrapping up

48:40

anyway assumes were already planning to leave

48:43

around this time. although everybody but I've

48:45

talked is is that home is going

48:47

on a little bit earlier than than

48:49

they intended. Stats on a trend restricted

48:51

to Jewish students. The environment is so

48:53

unpleasant. I guess you could say that

48:56

even non Jewish students they don't want

48:58

to be here because our campuses set

49:00

down to everybody which means that you're

49:02

even students were only restricted to the

49:04

area of campus and which. We are

49:07

residence on it so even I am

49:09

not. Allowed to go to certain dining

49:11

halls right now to certain libraries. I

49:13

can't go to the gym which has

49:15

been really annoying. About by Egypt's

49:17

highlights or even as a it's a

49:19

mundane as that everything has been defeated.

49:22

It's it's. eerily quiet right now.

49:24

There's a large police presence cel not

49:26

as intense as as it has been

49:28

that has contributed to you know a

49:31

clear environment of of disorder and it's

49:33

sad It's a it's depressing it as

49:35

well as this is it's it's not

49:37

vibrant as it usually is at this

49:39

time of year. Especially Tablet is based

49:41

in New York City and we've often

49:43

had interns. The interns during the year

49:45

primarily or from universities in the in

49:47

the city and every time I would

49:50

talk to someone at Barnard a Columbia

49:52

It always amazes me how prominence conversations

49:54

that. Israel were this is the past

49:56

measly decade, right? All these kids are

49:58

sort of much more aware. The Anti

50:00

Israel discourse. What you say that how

50:02

to defend Israel you know and with

50:05

i don't think that most college kids

50:07

are are very like familiar with is

50:09

actually you had encountered know throughout your

50:12

your time at Barnard. The short answer

50:14

is yes, I've barely aware of the

50:16

Anti Israel Community a club you specifically.

50:18

In fact it's because of that faction

50:21

of the student body. The I was

50:23

advised very seriously not to come anywhere

50:25

near Columbia because friends of mine and

50:27

family told me Columbia is the most.

50:30

Anti Semitic school in the country.

50:32

Do not to stop place with

50:34

a ten foot pole sledge I

50:36

sell on intimidated by because I

50:38

and you. I've been a very

50:40

proud, an outspoken Zionist for a

50:42

very long time. I've dealt with

50:44

these people before and babies squealing

50:46

and scare me. I was honestly

50:48

I was happy to ensure an

50:50

environment where they might be so

50:52

that I could. Talk to

50:55

them and parts of our here but they

50:57

had to say because all the think the

50:59

I was hearing any none of it made

51:01

sense it still doesn't make them see that

51:03

as a point here is that it it

51:06

really does not make sense if you ask

51:08

a few questions and so I want as

51:10

I was curious about about this group and

51:12

what they were thinking and also any and

51:15

I will say that I very much wanted

51:17

to discuss with them so that they could

51:19

hear my perspective because it was very clear

51:21

very early on that they are of these

51:24

people were. Not exposed to.

51:26

Any sort of dissenting or

51:29

differing opinions. Before October saddam

51:31

the main way in which

51:33

we saw this group emerge

51:36

was there have been various

51:38

Bts referendums at school, which

51:40

means the student body has

51:43

at multiple points voted. To

51:45

endorse. Bts even though it beats

51:48

administration had come out beforehand to

51:50

say we do not stand with

51:52

the the as it's anti semitic.

51:55

and moreover this boat of yours is not

51:57

going to do anything so don't even bother

51:59

the soon body went ahead and voted anyway.

52:01

And in my opinion, it appears

52:04

that they wanted to do that

52:06

just to demonstrate their anti-Semitism. So

52:09

even though it had no real impact,

52:11

it communicated very clearly to Jewish students

52:14

where the student body stands on

52:16

Israel and the existence of a

52:18

Jewish state. And then the

52:20

other way in which this has showed

52:22

up is the student body conducts this

52:25

thing called apartheid week, which is really

52:27

just a week where they

52:29

talk about how much they hate Israel

52:31

and why Israel is an apartheid state

52:34

and perpetrating genocide and settler, colonialists and

52:36

all of the things that we've been

52:38

hearing. So that's just to say they've

52:40

been doing this for a very long

52:43

time. Before October 7, though, it

52:46

was much more of a fringe group that

52:48

we didn't take seriously. And it made sense

52:50

at the time, it appeared

52:52

like we didn't need to, although,

52:54

you know, in retrospect, obviously, we

52:56

should have been more diligent. But

52:59

so that's what the experience was

53:01

like beforehand, not as severe, but

53:03

very much a presence. I imagine this

53:05

bonds you to your friends, to your, you

53:07

know, your fellow Zionists, to the people who

53:09

really are there for you in a way

53:11

that is almost not really unexpected, right? It's

53:14

not that it's unexpected, because it makes

53:16

a lot of sense that we would

53:19

at this time band together, of course,

53:21

I think the unexpected element is that

53:23

we would be put in a situation

53:26

where we have to consciously and unconsciously

53:28

rely on that cohesion, which I will

53:30

say occurred immediately. I

53:32

mean, the Jewish community at Columbia

53:35

is extremely strong,

53:37

clearly very resilient. You know,

53:39

if you're someone who you're going to

53:41

Hillel, you're going to Chabad, you're showing

53:43

up in these spaces, if you have

53:45

clearly communicated that you are a Zionist,

53:48

we don't really need to know more to

53:50

know that there is a serious bond and

53:53

I can rely on you to support me

53:55

and you can rely on me to support

53:57

you. There Are no further questions

53:59

really. That is is very powerful.

54:01

A problem with this most recent

54:03

wave of escalation that we face

54:05

in April and now coming into

54:08

May is that it for some

54:10

reason and I make it go

54:12

into that the different theories that

54:14

it has gained much more traction

54:16

that many more students have gotten

54:18

involved where they were previously either

54:20

not paying attention or actively opposing

54:22

the movement and then now there

54:24

and now they're joining. And so

54:26

because of the numbers I have

54:29

been closer now to. People

54:31

who have been participating in

54:33

the encampment who are supporting

54:35

felt the entire demonstrations. And

54:37

to those people I have

54:40

repeatedly offered my availability to

54:42

disguise. In all of those

54:44

instances, I've been that either

54:46

West. No. Response.

54:48

Or the claim that you know there

54:51

any their non jewish students that they're

54:53

they're going to too much right now

54:55

and they're trying to keep our they're

54:57

trying to keep themselves safe and their

55:00

friends say than are thinking about everything

55:02

so there are there unavailable to discuss.

55:04

No one wants to have a conversation

55:06

with the and I'm not the only

55:09

I'm not. The only Zionist issue is

55:11

having this issue. No one

55:13

wants to talk to. Thine

55:15

is at odds that it

55:17

is written in part of

55:19

the statement of the Columbia

55:21

University Apartheid Divest movement explicitly

55:23

condemn and or discourages. Discussion.

55:26

With Zionist it's part of their

55:28

they call it a an anti

55:30

normalization policy which means they don't

55:32

want to normalize, they don't want

55:34

to normalize by an exam and

55:36

so they don't even allow for

55:38

for talking to sign and. See.

55:40

About to graduate. This is sort of your

55:42

final memory of campus. I mean, how do

55:44

you feel about this? Disagree the you're about

55:47

to be handed. I mean, how do you

55:49

feel about this, this institution? This place that.

55:51

You've. Given so much to and and

55:53

it's it's sort of feels like isn't

55:55

supporting you as of right now at

55:58

based on how and seeing. The.

56:00

Country react to all of this.

56:03

I'm. Starting to feel like pessimistic I guess

56:05

is a good way to tip at

56:07

bats And that is really based off

56:09

of the amount of support that the

56:11

Jewish community at Columbia is getting from

56:13

from the outside we're not getting it

56:15

from the inside and getting lot of

56:17

encouragement. People are saying that they're very

56:19

proud of what we're doing on and

56:21

that we should be proud of what

56:24

we're doing. even though my barn and

56:26

experience was not what I envisioned and

56:28

not what I expected and not what

56:30

I felt like I was told would

56:32

be the Barnard experience. I. Do

56:34

feel like I am leaving. The

56:37

Barnard woman that I had hoped

56:39

barnard would make me I'm not

56:42

feeling. Again, I'm not

56:44

feeling afraid. And I'm not feeling. I'm

56:46

not willing to capitulate to that fear

56:48

anymore. I am feeling empowered. My anger

56:51

is driving me, my frustration is driving

56:53

the bus. More than that, my passion.

56:56

And my love frankly for.

56:58

The. Jewish people and for are

57:01

Jewish state is what has

57:03

made me feel very strong.

57:05

It and. And strength

57:07

and empowerment are. Soo.

57:09

Of the his primary descriptors and characteristics

57:11

of in my view what a barn

57:13

woman is and definitely not letting them

57:16

to take away how I feel about

57:18

Barnard and my barn and experience. But

57:20

I'm also not going to let them

57:22

redefine what Barney needs because the whole

57:25

fleet of why I'm so enraged by

57:27

all of this is that this is

57:29

not what Barnard is about and this

57:32

is This is not what Columbia University

57:34

is about and in the whole reason

57:36

I came here is bought. Bernard

57:38

is a community of women and

57:40

sisters who uplift each other, and

57:43

this is every. Every single part

57:45

of what we have seen this

57:47

year is absolutely antithetical to that,

57:49

so I refuse to let this

57:51

movement redefine that in any way.

57:53

So I have never felt more

57:55

like a Bernard woman. And it's

57:57

It's a shame that the I've.

58:00

that my friends and I didn't get

58:02

to experience the more conventional route

58:04

to that ultimate conclusion, but

58:08

we have emerged stronger, I believe. And

58:10

for that reason, I am not

58:13

feeling saddened by this. It was just

58:15

our college experience. And of

58:18

course, we could talk about

58:20

how we would have wanted it to go differently,

58:22

but this is the situation and that's how I've

58:24

come to analyze it. Well, Noah, Faye, you have

58:26

so much to be proud of yourself for. We

58:28

are proud of you. We are inspired by you.

58:31

And we are so excited to see what you

58:33

do when you get out into the world.

58:35

Thank you so much for being with us on Unorthodox. Thank

58:38

you so much for having me. That

58:44

was my conversation with Noah that we

58:46

recorded last week before the school officially

58:48

canceled its graduation ceremony. On

59:18

Unorthodox is a production of Toblet Studios. The

59:20

show is hosted by me, Stephanie Bentnick, with

59:22

Léa Leibovitz soon to be returning from the

59:24

Holy Land and Joshua Molina. Our executive producer

59:26

is Courtney Hazlett. Our director of production is

59:28

Josh Cross. We're produced and edited by Robert

59:30

Scaramucia, Quinn Waller and Ellie Blyer. And our

59:32

team includes Tanya Singer, Sam Hacker and Elena

59:34

Rapoport. Our episode art is by Esther Wortiger.

59:37

Our logo is by Jenny Rosbuck. And our

59:39

theme music is by Gola. Special thanks to

59:41

Debbie Sanford and Danielle Bernstein of the Federation

59:43

of Lee and Charlotte Counties and to Ari

59:45

Doseritz and Jane Bernstein, as well as their

59:47

kids, Evan, Lydia and Naomi, who you'll hear from

59:49

after the credits. We'd love to hear from you

59:52

too. Email us at unorthodox at

59:54

tabernag.com or leave a message on our listener line,

59:56

914-570-4869. Until

59:59

now. week, so hello my friends. What

1:00:19

is the podcast? Yeah. I

1:00:22

think it's like a recording and then it goes

1:00:24

for like a thousand people. Wait, so like the whole

1:00:26

world is gonna hear this? Do

1:00:29

you guys want to introduce yourself? I'm

1:00:31

10 years old and

1:00:33

I'm Naomi and I'm

1:00:35

six and a half. I love animals.

1:00:39

I'm Lydia. I'm eight years old and I

1:00:41

have an amazing mom and dad. Do you

1:00:43

want to say what we were doing here

1:00:45

today? Today we're having a celebration for my

1:00:48

mom's birthday. And you guys

1:00:50

all shared special objects to you, right?

1:00:52

Yes. I also

1:00:54

told everyone about this

1:00:57

mask and I

1:00:59

made two new friends. I

1:01:01

made two new friends too. And

1:01:03

I have matching necklaces with Stephanie. Yeah,

1:01:06

we have our official beautifully Jewish pink

1:01:08

Stars of David and it honestly looks

1:01:10

really good. Yeah. It's really, really

1:01:13

cool. It's amazing. It's amazing. Okay, so what else

1:01:15

should we know about your mom? That

1:01:19

she's really nice and she's

1:01:22

beautifully Jewish. Oh,

1:01:24

look at that.

1:01:27

Very beautifully Jewish.

1:01:30

You guys show off your own podcast. Yeah, we should. Yeah,

1:01:32

we really should.