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artisanbooks.com, discount code unorthodox, all

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caps. We're

0:33

doing so much fun with Belgium today. Yeah,

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can't wait. That was before my time, right?

0:38

I don't remember that conversation. I mean, it's an ongoing

0:41

conversation. It is the worst country in the world. Fair enough.

0:47

This is Unorthodox, the universe's leading Jewish

0:49

podcast. I am Stephanie Butnik,

0:51

and I'm joined by my co-host, tablet editor

0:53

at large, Leah Leibovitz. Shalom.

0:56

And pickleball phenom, Joshua

0:58

Molina. Huzzah. Today

1:01

on the show, we have two Jewish guests and

1:03

a Gentile of the week. It's actually been a

1:05

very long time since we've had a Gentile on

1:07

this show. Traditionally, we allow

1:09

one on every week, and we are

1:11

glad to welcome them back into

1:14

our corner. Our first guest is

1:16

Bernard-Henri Lévy, the philosopher, author, and filmmaker.

1:18

He's about to release his third film

1:21

about Ukraine, and it's a tribute to

1:23

everyday Ukrainian heroes, including

1:25

some Ukrainian-born Israeli soldiers who finished

1:27

their service in the IDF and

1:29

then volunteered to fight in Ukraine

1:31

against the Russians, and now are

1:33

back fighting for Israel. It's

1:35

a great conversation, and we're grateful to have BHL

1:37

back on the show. Our Gentile of the week

1:40

is Brooke Eby. At

1:42

the age of 33, she received the terminal diagnosis

1:44

of ALS, and she joins

1:46

us to talk about how she's learned to laugh in

1:48

the face of this brutal disease. I

1:50

will say we only pick the greatest Gentiles for this show.

1:53

That's true. It's a curated selection. Correct.

1:55

The ones we pick are the absolute

1:58

best. But first, my guys. What's

2:01

up? What's going on? Same old,

2:03

same old. I post one day about

2:05

my concern for a hostage,

2:08

and I'm accused of

2:10

failing to mention innocent

2:12

Gazans. The next day, I

2:15

write about three Muslim students who are

2:17

shot, and someone else is

2:19

not happy because I've moved the focus off

2:21

of Israel. What you're saying is that you

2:23

love your life just about now. It's great.

2:25

Yeah, it's fine. I have to say, I don't

2:27

know about you guys, but I did spend

2:30

much of my weekend watching videos of the

2:32

hostages returning to their families. I could not

2:34

stop watching them. There was the kids running

2:36

down the hospital, corridors hugging their dads. The

2:39

ones that got me were like the moms

2:41

reuniting with their kids. I just didn't realize

2:43

it was a genre of content I needed,

2:45

we all needed, but I really cannot stop

2:48

watching it just over and over and over

2:50

again. We got a little bit of

2:52

good news this weekend, and we're hoping that it continues, and

2:54

we're just sending our best

2:56

to everyone and hoping that more hostages

2:58

get freed soon. Amen. Here, here,

3:00

but at the same time, I got to tell

3:03

you, there's something about this conversation that kind of

3:05

feels eerie. There was a moment

3:07

that went viral the other week in which

3:09

a lovely Israeli spokesperson went on, I believe

3:11

Sky News. The host of the show

3:14

asked him, so the deal between

3:16

Israel and Hamas is such that Israel

3:18

releases 150 prisoners and Hamas releases 50

3:20

prisoners. So

3:24

does that mean that you guys value the

3:26

lives of a Jew three times as much

3:28

as you value the lives of a Palestinian?

3:31

And it's such a stupid question. Does

3:33

Israel not think that Palestinian lives

3:36

are valued as highly as Israeli

3:38

lives? That

3:40

is an astonishing accusation. If

3:43

we could release one prisoner for every one

3:45

hostage, we would obviously do that. It's worth

3:48

it just to see his facial expression immediately

3:51

after the question is posed. The

3:54

facial expression that even without any words

3:56

you could see says, what the fuck

3:58

is wrong with you? But

4:00

here's what I think, in a way I think this

4:02

is a missed opportunity and it's a missed opportunity that

4:04

keeps recurring over this debate. I think the answer ought

4:06

to have been, yeah, sure. I

4:09

value the lives of a 10-month-old innocent

4:11

baby much more than I value the

4:13

life of a terrorist who's in prison

4:15

for trying to kill people, irrespective

4:18

of these people's nationalities or religion.

4:20

It doesn't matter. Innocent

4:23

baby versus terrorist is

4:25

not an apt moral comparison. And

4:27

if you can't make this moral comparison,

4:29

I'm sorry. There's something

4:31

profoundly wrong with your

4:33

entire way of looking the world. And the

4:35

thing that kind of kills me is that

4:37

we keep on looking at this and this

4:39

keeps on getting reported as some kind of

4:41

intricate algebra of like, oh, they released X and

4:44

we got Y. I am so, so, so

4:46

grateful that these people are back home reunited

4:48

with their families. And yet it once again

4:50

underscores the absolute lack

4:52

of humanity with which we're

4:54

dealing. To me, that kind of clip

4:57

just shows what we're up against, right? There's literally

4:59

no winning in this scenario. It's like, okay, we'll

5:01

give you all these people, right? And then people

5:03

are like, hmm, you must not value their lives.

5:05

And you're like, this is really bizarro

5:08

calculus that we're seeing across the world of

5:10

how this stuff plays out. And it's just

5:12

disgusting. And I think you see like, oh,

5:15

they were supposed to free all the siblings together and they're

5:17

keeping a sibling, they're keeping a mom, they're keeping a child.

5:21

It's so fucked. The emotional manipulation

5:23

here is just like so grotesque.

5:25

You almost can't wrap your mind around it. You're

5:28

like, that has to be a mistake. No one

5:30

would just deliberately mess with a family like that

5:32

who did nothing, a family who did nothing. And

5:34

it's true. That's what they're doing. And

5:36

it's just, it's just disgusting. Speaking

5:39

of grotesque, this is just New York City.

5:41

This is just the last four days. We've had the

5:43

Macy's Day Parade disrupted by

5:46

pro-Khammas demonstrators that delivered $75,000

5:49

worth of damages to the New York Public Library. We've

5:52

had two attempts to shut down Grand Central

5:54

Terminal. We've had a violent

5:56

demonstration on Saturday that made shopkeepers at

5:59

Kallenan. the circle have to lock themselves

6:01

in their stores because pro-Khamas supporters were

6:03

marching in the streets and saying, Zionists,

6:05

we know who you are and you

6:07

know you will come to a bitter

6:10

end or something among these lines. We've

6:12

had students rioting in a Queens high school

6:15

when they found out that one of their

6:17

teachers attended a rally to

6:19

release the hostages. We've had

6:21

pro-Khamas demonstrators, some of them Jewish,

6:23

shut down the Manhattan Bridge. And

6:26

this morning I received an email

6:28

from a public relations person saying

6:30

that I should call and talk

6:33

to the person she's representing, the

6:35

CEO of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs,

6:37

which is a long

6:39

time Jewish advocacy group, about

6:42

the thing that is really the most

6:44

pressing in the world, the greatest threat

6:46

to the Jewish people, Elon

6:48

Musk interviewing Bibi

6:50

Netanyahu. The

6:52

unbelievable depravity of our so-called leadership

6:54

to see that all these organizations

6:57

and by all means it's not

6:59

all of them, there are some

7:01

of them doing good work, but

7:03

when I see the ADL, an

7:05

organization that has long beclowned itself,

7:08

go last week and claim against

7:10

all available resources and data that

7:12

there is no such thing as

7:14

pallywood. In other words, the Hamas

7:17

strategy of releasing fake

7:19

videos to blame Israel for war

7:22

crimes that never existed. The

7:24

ADL called us a conspiracy theory,

7:26

even though it was confirmed by

7:28

such hotbed Zionist publications like The

7:31

Atlantic, and they had to

7:33

take down this release because it

7:35

was obviously so blatant. To see

7:37

organizations like the JCRC stand with

7:39

people like AOC who believes that

7:41

the United States dropped chemical weapons

7:43

on Vyekas on behalf of the

7:45

Israeli government as some part of

7:47

the nefarious Zionist controlled experiment, to

7:50

see so many of these organizations

7:52

that receive our dollars and our

7:54

support and are supposed to stand

7:56

with us, continue to stupidly side

7:58

up to the The actual people who

8:01

are trying to hurt us and use their

8:03

platforms to play cheap, stupid politics, I think

8:05

every single one of us needs to look

8:07

at all the donations that they've been making.

8:10

And if there is a Jewish organization in there that

8:12

has over the last, you know, five, six,

8:15

10 years, aided and abetted

8:17

the rise of these people who

8:19

are now making this systemic surge

8:21

of anti-Jewish violence around the United

8:23

States possible, you should stop giving

8:26

them money and you should shame

8:28

these people because this so-called failed,

8:30

failed, failed leadership is a huge

8:32

part of the problem. Not

8:35

all. There are some good

8:37

people. Joshua Molina will tell us who

8:39

they are. No, no, no. I want

8:41

to back up slightly and give you

8:44

a tender pushback. Is it possible that

8:46

you are painting with too broad a

8:48

brush and describing sometimes pro-Palestinian protests as

8:50

pro-Hamas? Do you make a distinction? Was

8:53

the Macy's Day interruption? And

8:56

I condone no violent protest, but

8:58

was the Macy's Day interruption explicitly

9:00

pro-Hamas? First of all,

9:02

there is something really revolting to me

9:04

in saying like, okay, well, we are

9:07

going to march explicitly with a Palestinian

9:09

flag and call for, you know, end

9:11

or ceasefire or whatever.

9:13

When there are literal babies in prison, that's

9:15

when you shut the fuck up. You say,

9:17

guys, I support you, but you do not

9:20

hold babies hostage. If it doesn't even occur

9:22

to you to say that, that point to

9:24

me, the lines really blur massively. That's line

9:26

number one. Line number two, look, this

9:29

tendency to violently protest. There

9:32

were 300,000 of us in Washington,

9:34

D.C. There was not a

9:36

shekel worth of damage to any building.

9:39

There was no one acting violently. This

9:41

simply doesn't happen in our demonstrations, and

9:43

I think it's a great big difference.

9:45

So at this point, can you make an argument

9:48

that there is a legitimate

9:50

concern for the lives of Palestinians

9:52

that should be taken into consideration

9:54

whenever you support or not support

9:56

a certain kind of policy on

9:58

the Israeli-Palestinian side? 100%

10:01

I think you must do that. I think that any

10:03

viewpoint of the world as pro-Israeli as

10:05

it may be that says for example Callously,

10:07

hey, we should flatten Gaza and kill two

10:09

million Palestinians is completely illegitimate I think that

10:12

is part of the moral

10:14

calculus of every sane person

10:16

What really troubles me is that our

10:18

well-being does not seem to be part

10:20

of the moral calculus on the other

10:23

end at all again I read Arabic

10:25

I continue to sort of look for

10:27

any kind of meaningful Statement

10:29

of not forget support. I don't

10:31

care about that. But just saying

10:33

like these we kidnapped infants I'm

10:37

not seeing this and I think if you really

10:39

wanted to have a great pro-Palestinian demonstration I think

10:41

about so many other ways that this could have

10:43

been done including for example Even

10:46

like a very general, you know what stop

10:48

killing kids all around how about

10:50

Hamas? We calling you to release

10:52

these babies Israel We calling you

10:54

to stop the bombing because X

10:57

thousands of kids have died and that's not a price

10:59

You should be willing to pay. Okay, I

11:01

hear that but that's not the demonstrations. We're

11:03

seeing I Hear you and

11:06

I empathize with your position and I

11:08

understand your position But it also to

11:10

me slightly smacks of the whatabout ism

11:13

that I was referring to earlier just

11:15

in social media Which matters not at

11:17

all particularly my social media but to

11:19

insist that nobody protest with a Palestinian

11:22

flag unless they

11:24

have made clear their concern

11:26

about the Massacre and the

11:28

injustice of the acts of October

11:31

7th also suggests to me an

11:34

Equivalency or similarity to the people who

11:36

say well look at these people with

11:38

an Israeli flag Don't they care about

11:40

the innocent people of Gaza? Yeah, I've

11:42

seen Palestinian protests that were peaceful I

11:44

don't condone violence ever I

11:46

have seen Palestinian protests without putting myself

11:49

into their minds and hearts and saying

11:51

these are people Who cannot

11:54

speak out against Hamas? I just

11:56

think there's it makes me I'm

11:59

signing on to I understand and yet I want

12:01

to make two follow-up points of this point number one

12:03

is that when I could cite

12:05

You know five violent examples just in the

12:08

course of the last week I'm

12:10

sure there were a lot of other

12:13

kind of very respectful and solid protests

12:15

out there I think there is

12:17

a problem You've had in

12:19

Brooklyn just a couple weeks ago people with

12:21

Hamas flags Burning down

12:23

entire blocks and Bay Ridge out

12:25

of support for this insane terrorist

12:28

organization Which by the way still

12:30

holds American hostages American citizens hostage

12:33

So to me it is a matter

12:35

of a huge difference in The

12:38

quality and quantity of these things. Well, all

12:40

right. I agree with you. I sign off

12:42

on the distinction I just think were you

12:45

to observe a peaceful pro-palestinian

12:49

Protest that involves right just

12:51

Palestinian flags. You might describe

12:54

it as pro-hamas No, I

12:56

would not and and here's like a little

12:58

bit like you're straw manning me because of

13:00

course the violence is unacceptable But here's the

13:02

other this is the other point that I

13:04

wanted to make Stephanie and I moderated this

13:06

great event for the Jewish Priorities book again.

13:08

I wasn't invited. We made sure to keep

13:10

you out of there Priority

13:12

of ours that's exactly you were

13:14

not our Jewish priority Joshua Moline completely understand

13:17

join the large majority for whom I'm not

13:19

a priority Our

13:21

friend a not well the former, you know,

13:23

Israeli member of Knesset She's you know a

13:25

liberal lefty and good standing in Israel.

13:28

She made this excellent point He said, you know

13:30

a lot of times like she will talk to

13:32

her friends or left of her It's like they

13:34

will say oh, come on. You expecting Palestinians to

13:36

be Zionist and she said

13:38

that's exactly right I'm expecting

13:40

Palestinians to be Zionist and recognize and

13:42

respect my right to have a national

13:45

homeland and sovereignty Just as

13:47

I respect theirs Let me

13:49

put it this way if you asked the 300,000 people in DC How

13:53

many of you would support a

13:55

peaceful Palestinian state side by side

13:57

with a Jewish state even at

13:59

the cost? of painful territorial

14:01

concessions. I'm willing to bet

14:03

that you could get about 75 to

14:06

80 percent of people to say, OK,

14:09

sure, we'll at least give it a shot.

14:11

And the same poll taken by Israelis, what

14:13

numbers do you hazard? Well, after October 7th,

14:16

I think the numbers are very different because,

14:18

again, years and years and

14:20

years of Palestinian Authority support

14:23

for wanton violence and terrorism,

14:25

the pay for slay programs,

14:27

the absolute outbursts of

14:29

terrorism in the West Bank after October 7th,

14:31

all of these are problems. But in ideational

14:34

form, no Israeli has a problem other than

14:36

the security problems with the existence of a

14:38

Palestinian entity side by side as well. Very

14:41

few, thankfully, Israelis want to

14:43

completely erase the Palestinian population

14:46

from being. No Israeli, again,

14:48

with very few exceptions, thankfully, would say

14:50

from the river to the sea, you

14:52

know, the greater land of Israel will

14:54

be free. I hope you're right. It's

14:56

just not as catchy. No, it's not.

14:58

It's bad, bad copywriting. Yeah, it's got

15:00

meter issues. It does. Does that resonate

15:02

with you, Josh and Melina? Yes. You

15:05

know, Baruch Hashem, I hope you're right about

15:08

the numbers in the Israeli poll. But I

15:10

mean, I hear greater Israel bandied about. Well,

15:12

the Melina administration will change all that. Yeah,

15:15

I know this is like semantics and things like that.

15:17

But I think if we're talking about these distinctions, the

15:20

one that feels important to me is all these like

15:22

we talked about like the open letters that come out.

15:24

So many of them barely said anything about

15:26

October 7. You can't even

15:28

bring yourself to say that what happened, stealing

15:31

babies and grandparents and raping women. Like you

15:33

can't even say that was bad because they

15:35

were Israeli. I feel like people are so

15:38

warped in their thinking that

15:40

they've lost the ability to say like this

15:42

shit was really bad. And if it happened

15:44

anywhere else, we'd all be up in arms,

15:46

all of these organizations. And I think that

15:48

that for me is what I'm not seeing

15:50

still in so many places. And it's like

15:52

we've moved on so quickly to like condemnation

15:55

of Israel for its retaliation as though it

15:57

came out of nowhere. Right. Like

15:59

we're seeing this warped version. of events and I

16:01

think it's like making us feel crazy. That's how

16:03

I feel. You know, it's funny you mentioned Aenat

16:06

Wilf. There was a tweet of hers. She writes,

16:08

In a better world, on October 8th, the UN

16:10

Secretary General, the head of the International Red Cross

16:12

and other luminaries would have stationed themselves on the

16:14

Egyptian border with Gaza, demanding the full, immediate, and

16:17

unconditional release of all the kidnapped passages, insisting that

16:19

Israel owes absolutely nothing to Hamas for the release

16:21

of children, mothers, the elderly, and civilians, because there

16:23

is no world in which such acts are okay.

16:25

Israel is forced to negotiate with the twisted leaders

16:28

of Hamas for our children only because so many

16:30

people in official and non-official positions of power

16:32

failed to do their job and normalized the

16:34

idea that kidnapping children from their beds and

16:37

keeping them as bargaining tips is somehow a

16:39

legitimate act that leads to negotiations rather than

16:41

to stringent condemnation and global ostracism. This is

16:43

the world's longest tweet, by the way. It's the longest tweet. I don't

16:45

know how long tweets can be

16:47

these days. Let's be a subscriber. They're called X's. But we're

16:50

just seeing these like crazy double standards and

16:52

it's like just the idea of like releasing

16:54

terrorists for babies. And I think we've become

16:56

normalized to like when a soldier gets taken

16:59

hostage, right? And that's horrible, but it's part

17:01

of a calculation that we sort of understand,

17:03

right? These are things that happen in wartime

17:06

and then there are all sorts of negotiations

17:08

that follow. It's really weird to negotiate for

17:10

like a two-year-old back and to have to

17:12

give prisoners up for that. And I think

17:15

it's just like so depressing, honestly. Like that

17:17

to me is like this underlying feeling. And

17:19

I think that as I was watching these

17:21

videos riveted by them could not stop, you're

17:24

just realizing the absurdity of what you're

17:26

watching, right? Like it's this beautiful reunion. But

17:29

then you're like, these are children that were taken from

17:31

their parents for no reason. And then the fact that

17:33

there are people who are like, those are colonizer babies.

17:35

And you're like, what? Colonizer babies,

17:37

by the way, is a very good show.

17:39

They're so cute. They're really cute. But

17:42

one of the lowest selling Christmas toys

17:44

this season. A colonizer baby? Yeah, nobody

17:46

wanted it. Yeah, stick with Cabbage Patch

17:48

Kids. But it's like even like the UN women's

17:51

stuff, you're like, yeah, no one is coming out and

17:53

being like, this is this thing that happened. These like

17:55

mass rapes of women are horrible. And you're like, it's

17:57

just because they're Israeli. It's so messed up. Gaza

18:00

has just gone from our eyes and I just

18:02

feel like... But not the Gaza. The Gaza

18:05

has been removed. But Stephanie, can we

18:07

shift gears here and go from bad to

18:09

worse or from worse to worst? As we

18:11

do. We're not just going to

18:14

talk about Israel today. We promise you that you'll

18:16

get a little bit of a break because actually

18:18

there's another place that we need to focus on

18:20

today. It is the unofficial

18:22

country of unorthodox. The

18:24

unofficial most hated... Our sister country. Yes,

18:27

exactly. We are directly linked with them. News

18:32

of the Jews. Oh

18:34

yeah. N-O-T-J

18:37

News of the

18:39

Jews. Lael,

18:41

there's a lot of updates from

18:43

the nation of Belgium. So let's

18:45

jump right in. And I want to present this

18:48

as a tragedy in three

18:50

acts. I'm going to read to you three

18:52

letters that we received over the years from

18:55

the same listener. Josh Cross,

18:58

music please. So,

19:08

once upon a

19:10

time, the listener identifying herself only

19:15

as Sabrina wrote to us.

19:26

Yes. I really enjoy your

19:28

podcast and listen to it every week. But

19:30

your last section in Belgium with that letter

19:32

is frankly very misinformed. I

19:34

find your way of talking about Belgium

19:37

insulting and inaccurate. I come from Brussels

19:39

and there are definitely problems there. But

19:42

we have a vibrant community that is

19:44

largely supportive of Israel. More over Lael.

19:46

Yes, there was a pedophile scandal many

19:48

years ago in Belgium. But I certainly

19:50

think the US can compete with Belgium

19:52

from that point of view. So

19:54

please guys, check your facts before spreading

19:56

all kinds of bias. It's not helping

19:58

anybody. Then a

20:01

few years later, Sabrina writes again, What

20:03

a pity you guys don't stop

20:05

confusing Belgium with flambe, generalizing

20:08

FLEMISH anti-Semitism with Belgium anti-Semitism.

20:10

These are very good distinctions.

20:12

The stories you have been

20:14

telling, especially regarding soccer, are

20:16

also true for the UK

20:18

and Holland. You hardly ever

20:20

speak about the UK, where Jews have real

20:23

problems right now, especially in the Labour Party.

20:25

You also have been generalizing the anti-Semitism of

20:27

tiny OST, I believe it's

20:29

pronounced OST to

20:31

the whole country. This is where the parade

20:34

was with a giant Jew figureheads with a

20:36

big nose. You end up sounding

20:38

like Trump, who called Brussels a shithole. Pity.

20:41

Fact. Belgium is not the country of pedophilia. You

20:44

have tons of horrible stories in the

20:46

US every single day that would never

20:48

happen in Belgium, where they're basically one

20:50

single story 20 years ago with Mark

20:52

Dutrow. I'm a Belgian Jew, pro-Israeli, and

20:54

I am shocked by how ignorant and

20:56

relentless you are on the subject. Seriously,

20:58

stop hammering. It only shows ignorance. I

21:00

used to love your show, but this has become unbearable.

21:03

We received a third and

21:06

final letter from Sabrina

21:08

this week. I

21:10

will read it in its entirety. I

21:13

was wrong in my previous emails. Belgium

21:16

really is a nasty,

21:18

dangerous, little anti-Semitic country.

21:21

I'm Israel, hi, Sabrina.

21:25

Sabrina, we love you, and we want

21:27

to support you with a few just

21:29

from these last couple of weeks in

21:31

Belgium. Three days ago, at least 85

21:33

Jewish graves in a cemetery were

21:36

desecrated. Also,

21:39

when asked to screen the

21:41

video of the Hamas terrorist,

21:43

the president of the Belgium

21:46

parliament refused because she said

21:48

it was false propaganda that

21:50

is here to do nothing

21:53

but spread cruelty against

21:55

poor, innocent Gazans. And

21:58

finally, we've also had The

22:00

best, maybe the best story out of Belgium in

22:02

a while. This one doesn't involve Jews, but it's

22:05

too good. This is from the New York Post.

22:07

Headline. 10 sex-crazed

22:10

prison guards, staffers, held jacuzzi

22:12

orgies. One even refused to

22:14

work before intercourse. Report.

22:17

Belgium's largest prison is reeling from

22:19

a wild sex scandal that accused

22:21

guards and staffers of organizing jacuzzi

22:23

orgy parties and trading colorful bracelets

22:26

to determine their sex partners. A

22:28

local report detailed. And so,

22:31

once again, the low country

22:33

with low morals keeps on winning

22:35

the title of World's

22:37

Greatest Shithole. Keep those emails coming.

22:41

You know, Lael, it's like you commit to

22:43

things and eventually there is a payoff years

22:45

and years and years later. This joke

22:47

is eight years in the making and it

22:50

keeps on being funny. I appreciate what

22:52

you've given to this over the years

22:55

and it's just nice to see, you know, things

22:57

catching up. I would say Belgium and Spain were

22:59

also two of the countries that had Israel recall

23:02

the diplomatic representative because they

23:04

were simply, you know, completely disinterested

23:06

in the Hamas attacks and entirely

23:08

one-sided in insisting that Israel was

23:10

just the aggressor here and had

23:12

no right to demand the return

23:15

of its babies. But because

23:17

the world is a very small place and on

23:19

a serious note, I think it's

23:21

time to actually shine some light. Yes. Up

23:24

until now in this episode, you've had nothing but darkness,

23:27

shall we? Yes, we are taking things

23:29

global this week. We talked about Israel,

23:31

we got to Belgium and now we're

23:33

gonna head to Ukraine where our

23:35

friend, philosopher, author, filmmaker, Bernard Henri Lavie

23:37

has spent a lot of time in

23:39

the past few years making

23:41

films, being out there on the front lines

23:44

and showing us what's going on there. His

23:46

latest film is the third in his Ukraine

23:48

trilogy and it's called Glory to the Heroes.

23:50

We called up Bernard and asked him to

23:52

tell us a little bit about it. Damal

23:55

Reidadi, welcome to the show. Thank you,

23:57

happy to be with you. Now look,

23:59

I... I have seen this film,

24:01

I was immensely, immensely, immensely moved

24:04

by it. I personally strongly believe

24:06

that, you know, Israel's

24:08

war in Gaza and Ukraine's war with

24:10

Russia, it's part of the same global

24:12

civilization. But I want to start with

24:14

a provocative question. You know, there are

24:16

a lot of listeners listening to us right now who

24:18

maybe have gotten a little tired of

24:20

this war in Ukraine. It's been going on for a long

24:23

time who are maybe distracted by the

24:25

war in Gaza. Why should

24:27

we care right now about the heroes of

24:29

Ukraine? Distracted, they would be wrong because it

24:31

is the same and because

24:35

the two are completely

24:37

connected. Hamas would not

24:39

have dared to attack

24:41

Israel if Ukraine

24:44

had won against Putin.

24:47

This can be demonstrated. I could

24:50

prove it. Fatigue,

24:52

of course there is. Because

24:55

we live in a world where

24:57

people are real. We

25:00

all have a sort of attention deficit.

25:04

And to hold the stage

25:06

for one year and a half,

25:08

nearly two years, as

25:10

President Zelensky did, is already

25:12

a miracle. So there is,

25:14

of course, a moment

25:16

of emptiness. That

25:19

is one of the reasons why I insisted

25:21

to release this film, to

25:25

suit it first of all so quickly,

25:28

to edit it in emergency, and

25:30

to release it in emergency too.

25:34

There's one amazing segment in the film

25:36

in which we meet two incredible young

25:38

men, Sasha and Vitaly, who are former

25:40

IDF soldiers, Israelis who train with the

25:43

Ukrainian military and fight with the Ukrainian

25:45

military. Why was it important to include

25:47

this segment? What are viewers to

25:49

take away from watching? Because there

25:52

are many Israeli soldiers who

25:54

have volunteered in the Ukrainian

25:57

armed forces. speak

26:00

and they don't show their face. For

26:03

me, being a proud Jew,

26:06

me, myself, being

26:08

a Zionist, myself, it

26:10

was very important to show this

26:14

proximity, this brotherhood

26:17

between Israeli fighters

26:20

and Ukrainian fighters. And

26:22

I'm happy that the scene, that the segment

26:24

moved you because I was myself moved when

26:26

I saw these

26:29

Jewish boys and

26:31

these Ukrainian boys having

26:34

this hug on the front

26:36

line, remembering their

26:39

souvenirs of brotherhood and

26:42

ready to go to the

26:44

front line again together. I was

26:46

moved to tears, by the way.

26:48

These Israeli veterans whom I filmed

26:52

in my movie, they

26:54

are former fighters in IDF

26:56

and they are again fighters

26:59

alas in IDF

27:01

because October 7

27:04

they moved again from Ukraine

27:07

to Israel. And at the time

27:09

we are speaking, they are in

27:11

Gaza, in special

27:13

units. It tells the

27:16

story of these two gentlemen, Alex

27:19

and Vitaly, in a sense, tell

27:21

the story, the whole story of

27:23

the link, of the

27:25

big game in which

27:28

Israel and Ukraine are on the same

27:30

side on the barricade. The thing that

27:32

really grabbed me the most about it

27:34

is that just like the amazing things

27:36

that we're seeing out of Israel right

27:39

now with the Israeli public mobilizing

27:41

so fiercely to fight this war as

27:44

one, this third movie,

27:46

Glory to the Heroes, my favorite,

27:48

by the way, the Ukrainian trilogy,

27:51

really shows the incredible

27:53

resilience of ordinary everyday

27:55

Ukrainians. There's a scene

27:57

that I think again comes to life in

27:59

a very, very long time. very different way

28:01

after what we've seen post October 7th of

28:03

three very young women who were kept hostage

28:05

in a small cramped basement by

28:08

the Russians for months with hundreds of

28:10

other people who you take back to

28:12

this basement who tell you this thing.

28:14

So as you're spending time not just

28:16

in the front lines, what is

28:18

it that you saw with these ordinary Ukrainians

28:20

in the way that they mobilized to fight

28:22

as one? The resilience

28:25

of the civilians and the

28:27

heroism of the soldiers they

28:30

proved to be inhabited

28:33

by an incredible and

28:35

beautiful patriotism. There is

28:37

a Ukrainian miracle as

28:40

there was in 1948 and 1949 an Israeli miracle. For Ukraine

28:42

it's a sort of Israeli moment. What is

28:50

happening in Ukraine since two years

28:53

is not unfamiliar, not

28:55

so different from what

28:57

happened to Israel 75

28:59

years ago. And by the

29:02

way, Israel is

29:05

for so many of the Ukrainians

29:07

I met, so many of

29:09

the Ukrainians whose daily

29:12

life I shared, Israel

29:14

is a sort of pattern of

29:16

model of of reference.

29:20

On every level mobilization of

29:23

the society forget the quarrels

29:25

when the national unity is

29:27

at stake, build an army,

29:31

out of nothing. So this is

29:33

what struck me and for

29:35

my Jewish and Zionist heart and brain

29:37

it was not nothing to perceive all

29:39

of that. It made a lot of

29:41

sense. What motivates you to sort

29:43

of continue this work? I mean I know

29:45

a lot of us, it was Ukrainian flags

29:48

everywhere, people changing their Facebook photo, it was

29:50

sort of all the rage

29:52

to sort of really be supporting Ukraine

29:54

and I think as time has gone

29:56

by it's gotten harder to command the

29:58

attention of the masses. We've moved

30:00

on to other things. We're incensed by

30:02

this. We're outraged by that. How

30:04

do you stay committed to this

30:07

cause that's clearly very important to

30:09

you? I keep on because

30:11

I see that the others are

30:15

increasingly tired

30:17

of your credit. And

30:20

I don't know how to do that. For

30:22

me, it gives me a duty. In

30:24

general, when you can and when

30:27

you don't do, it

30:29

can be a real mistake when you can.

30:32

When you have access, when you

30:34

have time, when you

30:36

have money, when you have

30:38

the ability to

30:40

see things and to tell things

30:43

which others would not see and

30:45

tell, I consider

30:47

at least that it is a duty

30:49

to deliver and

30:52

to fulfill. But it's a deep moral

30:55

duty. The book of yours I

30:57

love the most, The Will to See, basically

30:59

says, look, it is your

31:01

moral duty to never ignore

31:03

the suffering of people out

31:06

there in the world. It's only to bear witness,

31:08

which is not only a core

31:11

tenet of your own career, but also

31:13

a deeply, deeply Jewish thing. I

31:17

kind of wonder though, because Stephanie's question

31:19

does speak to something larger. So many of

31:21

us, not just in Ukraine, but in

31:23

life in general, the way we go through life is

31:27

saying, you don't have the capacity for

31:29

it. We just want to care about our family.

31:31

We just want to care about a stupid TV

31:33

show that we're watching. And

31:35

you're here teaching us a different way. You're saying,

31:37

I'm sorry, but you have a higher

31:40

responsibility. I think you have this

31:42

responsibility when you are a human

31:45

being in general, when you

31:47

are a woman or a

31:49

man of goodwill, but even

31:51

more when you have public

31:54

voice, when you

31:56

have a public existence, when you

31:58

are an inter-exist. You

32:00

have this responsibility. And

32:03

you cannot take the good of it without taking

32:06

the bad of it. I mean, the

32:08

most painful. It is

32:10

not a joy of every moment to

32:12

spend your whole summer in francials,

32:15

in front lines, 100

32:19

meters from Russia and

32:21

savages. It's

32:23

not an easy going summer which

32:26

I spent. I

32:28

have so many advantages. I'm so

32:30

lucky in life. My

32:33

chance, my family, whatever

32:35

you can buy the favor of some people

32:38

in my country and the little in America

32:40

who listen to me, who buy my books

32:42

and so on and so on and so

32:45

on. The minimum I can do

32:47

is to try to give back. And

32:50

what means

32:52

again, when you are the only

32:55

one to be able

32:57

or one of the few to

32:59

be able to do some things and

33:01

when it is when it can make a

33:03

difference, you have to do it. In

33:06

Ukraine it is very simple. The

33:08

links I have with the

33:10

Ukrainians, the trust

33:13

which I built with

33:17

the political society between

33:21

me and political society, me and presidential

33:24

administration and myself and the

33:27

ground commanders, this link, this

33:29

trust creates an obligation.

33:34

When I go on the front

33:36

line, when I am stopped at

33:38

the checkpoints and when there

33:41

is a young

33:43

commander that suddenly

33:45

wonders if I am not the

33:47

French man who was on the maiden in

33:50

2014 and

33:53

he has a vague remembrance

33:56

of that, how can

33:58

I say? I really

34:00

feel obliged. I'm curious

34:02

about the exigencies of trying to

34:04

film a movie about

34:06

war during war. How do you

34:08

do that with any kind of sense

34:11

of safety or security for yourself

34:13

and your crew? I have

34:15

a huge security for myself and also

34:17

for my group, for my team. I

34:20

don't engage in such

34:23

an adventure without

34:26

taking all the possible precautions.

34:28

It's a complicated system. I

34:31

have, of course, some fixers. I have

34:33

some precursors who go in any place

34:37

one hour or two, a

34:39

few minutes, some time before me. And

34:42

all the more because I'm not a

34:44

young journalist. I'm not a

34:47

young debutante

34:49

journalist. In

34:52

front of me, the Russians, they probably

34:54

also have a vague idea of who

34:56

I am. So I

34:58

have to be careful. But I am. I

35:01

am careful. I go as

35:04

close as I can to the combat. But

35:09

I am not a burnt head, a dead

35:11

brillay, as we say in France. And

35:14

even if for myself

35:17

I feel strangely

35:20

and absolutely protected, I am

35:24

careful for those who

35:26

trust me and who follow me with

35:28

his, my team, Ukrainian and French and

35:32

American. So one

35:34

more question. And I think this one

35:36

may be the most important one of all. What

35:38

does victory look like? Does

35:41

this war end only when Russia is

35:44

defeated and thrown out of every part of Ukraine?

35:46

Or does it end when Putin

35:48

pays the price for his war crimes?

35:51

What's the end goal here? The

35:53

victory will be when

35:57

all the enemies of democracy in

35:59

China. in the Middle

36:01

East, close to Iran,

36:03

when all of them would

36:06

think twice before

36:10

engaging themselves in

36:12

such an adventure as Putin

36:14

did. Putin has to be

36:17

defeated. Putin has

36:20

to be toppled by his

36:23

own people, feeling, I hope,

36:26

humiliated by this stupid

36:29

adventure in which Putin threw

36:32

them. All that has to happen

36:34

in order that

36:37

in other parts of the world,

36:39

dictators, terrorist groups, think

36:42

twice before repeating

36:45

the same experience. That

36:47

would be victory. Ukraine is a

36:49

test which has been

36:52

implemented by Putin for all

36:55

his likes, all those who

36:57

look like him all over the world.

37:00

Thank you. The

37:03

film is Glory to the Heroes. It

37:05

is opening nationwide on December 8.

37:08

The New York premiere is December 6 at 6.30 at the UN.

37:11

If you want to see a movie at the UN, it's the coolest thing

37:13

you could do. And then there

37:15

are screenings with Q&A sessions in DC on

37:17

December 9 at 1pm in LA and December

37:20

10 at 1pm. We

37:22

are going to put a link in the

37:24

show notes to a website where you could register

37:26

for all this and I hope we do.

37:28

Bernard, thank you for everything that

37:31

you do and glory to the heroes.

37:34

Glory to the heroes and

37:36

friendship to you, my dear, Elia

37:38

Eboriz. Big friendship, big hug,

37:40

and to all of you. I

37:47

got to tell you guys, I've seen this movie.

37:49

It is absolutely incredible and

37:51

uplifting and really a testament

37:53

to Bernard's commitment to this.

37:56

Watch this movie and if you can, hear

37:58

Bernard speak, it's a privilege. J.Crew,

38:14

join us for Tablet's Hanukkah Bazaar on

38:16

Sunday, December 3rd in New York City.

38:18

Unorthodox will be there alongside more than

38:21

40 vendors selling jewelry, art, Judaica, and

38:23

more. Everything you need for

38:25

your Hanukkah gifting. To get your ticket,

38:27

head to hanukkahbazaar.com. That's

38:30

H-A-N-U-K-K-A-H. And the

38:32

very next day, December 4th, I'll be

38:34

joined by my Unorthodox co-hosts, Lea Leibovitz

38:36

and Joshua Molina in Baltimore for a

38:38

special Unorthodox live show at the 2023

38:41

Conservative Masorati

38:43

Shabbaton and Convening. You can

38:45

get your tickets at tabletm.ag slash

38:47

convening. Use code unorthodoxpod25

38:49

for a discount. Lea and I

38:52

are also doing individual sessions that day, which you

38:54

can sign up for as well. And on

38:56

December 14th and 15th, Lea and I will

38:58

be at Kol Lamee Synagogue in Tucson, Arizona

39:00

for a Shabbat filled with special events presented

39:03

by the Bill Gray Lecture Series. You

39:05

can find all of this info

39:08

and more at tabletmag.com/unorthodoxlive. And to

39:10

bring us to your community, email

39:12

Tanya Singer at tsinger at tabletmag.com.

39:24

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39:26

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39:28

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39:31

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39:33

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39:39

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39:41

to lock in the maximum charitable deduction for

39:43

2023. Get started

39:45

at jcfny.org. And

40:00

now it's time for our Gentile of the

40:02

Week. That is Brooke Eby. She was diagnosed

40:04

at 33 with ALS and she joined Stephanie

40:06

to talk about what it's been like to

40:09

be diagnosed with a terminal illness at such

40:11

a young age and to talk about the

40:13

work she's doing to raise awareness for the

40:15

disease and how she's learned to laugh in

40:17

the face of ALS. Brooke

40:26

Eby, welcome to Unworth It, X. Thank

40:28

you. So I have to own

40:30

this on the air. This is not our

40:32

first interview. We did an amazing interview. I

40:34

messed up the recording. I'm

40:36

mortified by that and so gratified that

40:39

you agreed to return to do this

40:41

again. I'm honestly glad it was a

40:43

recording issue and not like a Brooke

40:46

Eby or wildly inappropriate issue. So

40:48

I will take a recording error any day. We got

40:50

to a really interesting place at the end of our

40:53

last interview and I actually want to dive right in

40:55

because you're our Gentile of the Week but you were

40:57

telling me about sort of like your Jewish adjacencies. Yeah.

41:00

Yeah. So I grew up in Potomac, which has

41:02

a large Jewish population. Then I went to Lehigh,

41:05

which also has a large Jewish population. Then I

41:07

moved to New York City. So I feel like,

41:09

you know, I've always kind of been the Gentile

41:11

of the week or the month or the lifetime

41:13

perhaps. What were your

41:15

early Jewish memories? I'm glad you asked

41:18

because this is unlocking a memory that really

41:20

jumped to the forefront. There was like a

41:22

very cute boy when I was in either

41:24

kindergarten or first grade. He invited me over

41:27

to make Hamantaschen and I remember being like,

41:29

oh, I am in now.

41:32

And we made it and obviously like it was amazing.

41:34

It was the best date I never knew I was

41:36

on. You know, I like this. You've been

41:38

on the Today Show. I bet they did not

41:41

ask you about the time you made Hamantaschen with

41:43

like Brad Goldstein. No, I don't know that I've

41:45

ever told that story. What was his name? It

41:47

was Alex something. Because he is listening right now

41:49

or his mom is listening and she's like, I

41:51

do remember that. Yeah.

41:54

It was lovely. She invited a young Gentile

41:56

to come make Hamantaschen with red hair. This

41:58

is your moment to come forward. So

42:00

I always was curious, and we'll get to

42:02

like the work you do at some point.

42:04

Then, honestly. Like

42:07

what did your parents think of like this

42:09

Jewish world you were living in where they

42:12

were like, she's going to make these like

42:14

triangle cookies for this weird holiday? Like what

42:16

was it like for them for you to

42:18

be immersed in a Jewish world? So my

42:20

mom's dad was Jewish. My grandpa was

42:23

Jewish. He like grew up in Brooklyn, I

42:25

think like a pretty strong Jewish community. And

42:27

then I haven't told this story either. But

42:30

then he met my grandma, and

42:32

I guess his parents really didn't

42:34

want him marrying someone who

42:36

wasn't Jewish, which she wasn't. They

42:38

didn't legally disown him, but they like totally

42:40

cut off communication with him. And

42:43

so I think he kind of had a

42:45

bad taste in his mouth, not for Judaism,

42:48

but for like the culture and like how

42:50

exclusive they were being. And

42:52

so my mom grew up, I

42:54

think they celebrated Christmas, but I

42:56

don't think they wanted any sort

42:58

of religious anything in their lives.

43:01

But I don't think my parents like really care

43:03

about religion one way or another. This does bring

43:05

us to an awkward place because there are people

43:07

who would claim you as Jewish. You

43:10

have a Jewish grandparent, they would say your

43:12

mother is Jewish, because her father was Jewish,

43:14

and then therefore you are Jewish. So

43:16

yeah, it's not the mother's either. There

43:19

are denominations of Judaism that believe in

43:21

patrilineal descent as well. So basically, you

43:23

are Jewish. I'll take it. It

43:25

kind of seemed like you knew it, you felt it. I feel

43:27

it. I do. So

43:30

I would love to talk to you a

43:32

little bit about the activism work you do.

43:34

You have this, you know, heartbreaking but inspiring

43:37

story of discovering that something

43:39

wasn't right with you and your body and

43:41

the long journey of figuring out what it

43:43

was. So if you don't mind, would you

43:45

tell us your story? So in 2018, I

43:47

was 29 years old, had just moved from San

43:49

Francisco back to New York

43:53

City and was working at Salesforce like I

43:55

still am. And I was walking to a

43:58

conference and I remember my cat. I

44:00

haven't been feeling tight for a few months prior

44:02

to that, but it didn't affect my walk at

44:04

all. But as I was walking

44:06

to this conference, I could tell I

44:08

was walking slower than all of my colleagues and

44:10

I wasn't sure what it was. And a couple

44:12

of my colleagues were like, yeah, it looks like

44:14

maybe you're limping, like maybe you hurt something. And

44:16

when you're 29 and mostly healthy, you're

44:19

like, oh, I probably just like worked out

44:21

too hard. I didn't really think

44:23

much of it until I had

44:25

my sister look at it. My sister and her husband

44:27

are both doctors. And they were

44:29

like, walk forward, but only walk on your

44:31

heels. And my right heel was able to

44:33

stay up as I was walking and putting

44:35

weight on it, but my left heel, my

44:37

foot would just flat down every time. And

44:39

I guess that's something called foot drop, where

44:41

like the muscles in your foot can't hold

44:43

themselves up. One thing led to another.

44:46

It ended up being four years of doctor appointments because

44:48

every time I would go to a doctor, they

44:50

couldn't quite pinpoint what was going on.

44:53

Like they knew the nerves in my

44:55

left foot weren't working properly. But

44:57

the rest of my body seemed to be

44:59

working just fine. And so it really wasn't until

45:02

beginning of last year, beginning of 2022 that

45:04

I started having some balance issues

45:06

and my walking seemed to be getting even worse.

45:08

So I went back in, they

45:10

ran all the same tests again, and

45:12

they saw that I was now having issues in

45:15

not just the left foot, but also my right

45:17

foot. And so at that

45:19

point, they were able to say like,

45:21

okay, you are progressively having like this

45:23

motor neuron issue, most likely

45:25

ALS, we're gonna put you in touch with

45:27

an ALS clinic. And it was

45:29

shocking. I mean, four years of testing and

45:31

hearing nothing exciting. I kind of just got

45:33

used to going to the doctors and leaving

45:36

with question marks. And so I didn't even

45:38

bring anyone to that appointment where I got

45:40

diagnosed. I just showed up alone, had the

45:42

same test done. I was like making small talk with

45:44

the doctor. I didn't really think

45:46

anything of it until he wheeled up next to me

45:48

and was like, I'm really not liking what I'm seeing.

45:51

And so March, 2022, I was

45:53

finally able to

45:56

get an ALS diagnosis at the age of

45:58

33. terminal illness

46:00

at 33. I mean, how

46:02

do you, on the one hand I imagine

46:04

having an answer is incredibly satisfying. On

46:07

the other hand, it's a devastating one.

46:09

Yeah, it was a bizarre feeling.

46:12

I think my first reaction was

46:14

to Google ALS, which like I

46:16

can't recommend against enough because it's

46:18

terrifying to Google. Basically

46:21

what I learned is that ALS is

46:23

a disease that disconnects your brain from

46:25

your muscles. So there's something that connects

46:27

the two called a motor neuron. Those

46:30

motor neurons die off when you have

46:32

ALS. So basically everything that's allowing my

46:34

brain to communicate to muscle is

46:37

dying slowly but surely. For me

46:39

right now, that means just my legs.

46:41

So my legs are mostly

46:43

paralyzed at this point. I can't move

46:45

them, but eventually that means every

46:48

muscle in your body. So you think of like

46:50

your arms and legs moving, but your

46:52

muscles also control your speech, your

46:55

swallowing all the way to your

46:57

breathing. That's obviously a pretty devastating

46:59

diagnosis in the sense that it's

47:01

expected you live like two to

47:03

five years after diagnosis. I've

47:06

had symptoms for five years now.

47:08

So I'm considered a slow progressor

47:10

and I'm still gabbin' away, which

47:13

is really lucky. So I spent a

47:16

couple months really after the diagnosis just like grieving

47:19

what I thought my life was gonna be. And then

47:21

I just kind of got

47:23

over it. And I was like, if I'm still talking,

47:25

I should start talking about it more. And

47:28

that's been the last like year and a half. And you

47:30

describe on social media where you've been sharing a

47:32

lot of this. Being at a friend's wedding like

47:35

a switch flipped. Will you tell us sort of

47:37

about when you decided to embrace the unexpected circumstances

47:39

your life had taken? So yeah,

47:41

those two months after I got diagnosed, I was

47:43

just eating chocolate in bed. Like that was what

47:45

I was doing. I was like shook. And

47:48

then I had a friend's wedding, a good

47:50

college friend where I was a bridesmaid

47:53

and I was wearing like a bridesmaid's dress that was too

47:56

tight because I had only been eating chocolate for two

47:58

months. And I was using a lot. And

48:00

like, when you see your college friends, you're like,

48:02

I want them to think I'm doing great. You

48:05

know, it's like the high school reunion phenomenon where people like

48:07

lose weight and they get spray tans and

48:09

like fillers and all this stuff. Like I

48:11

was having the opposite moment where I was

48:13

like, my dress doesn't fit. I'm using a

48:15

walker. What else can go wrong

48:18

here? So I was walking into the

48:20

wedding and I turned to my friend and I was like,

48:22

please, please, let's just leave. I like,

48:24

can we just escape? Like, no, I don't notice.

48:26

No, I don't notice. Like it could be really

48:28

embarrassing, but like we could just make it really

48:30

fun. Like what if we just made it really

48:32

fun? So I kind of like faked

48:34

it for the first hour or so. It was like

48:37

a fake it till you make it situation. But a

48:39

couple hours in, I was just on the dance floor

48:41

with my walker and I was like giving people

48:43

walker rides on the dance floor. And we had

48:45

the bride limboing under my walker. And

48:47

I was like, okay, I feel

48:50

okay. Like despite using the same

48:52

walker that the bride's grandmother was

48:54

choosing, like we were comparing models.

48:57

Despite that, I'm still able to have fun

48:59

with this. And so like a

49:01

month or so after that, I downloaded TikTok and

49:03

I was like, let's just keep having fun with

49:06

it and see what happens. You have this great

49:08

attitude and you're sharing the realities of your life.

49:10

And I think people are really, really connecting to

49:12

you and your story. Yeah, I

49:14

think it's a weird juxtaposition of seeing

49:17

a somewhat young face

49:19

talking about dying soon.

49:23

I don't feel like I'm going to

49:25

go tomorrow by any means, but knowing

49:28

I have a disease where there's only

49:30

one possible outcome, I think

49:32

is interesting for people to see. When

49:34

I pictured ALS, I pictured

49:36

like old grandpas. I pictured, I mean, Stephen

49:38

Hawking and Lou Gehrig were both not super

49:41

old, but I think beyond that, the only

49:43

people I knew were like grandparents

49:45

and 80 to 90 years old. I

49:49

pictured men. Everything I knew about ALS

49:51

was wrong. I thought it was like a genetic thing. I

49:53

thought it was super rare. I thought it was only affecting

49:55

old people. And I was just every single

49:58

thing I thought was incorrect. I

50:00

want to be like a more

50:02

approachable face to this disease because

50:05

most people when they get diagnosed

50:07

really don't have time. They lose

50:09

their voice quickly, they die

50:12

quickly, it's a very quick death sentence. And

50:14

so I've been given this disease

50:17

but knock on wood like the best

50:19

possible case for this disease. So

50:21

I kind of have to speak because no one else

50:24

is able to. So you actually educate us

50:26

a little bit. Are there a lot of young people who are

50:28

getting ALS? Can you give us sort of some of the numbers?

50:31

I wish I could give numbers. It's

50:34

mostly anecdotal. ALS is

50:36

not like a legally registered disease.

50:38

So like you don't actually

50:40

have to say you have ALS

50:43

the way like you do with cancer

50:45

where like doctors record it and it

50:47

goes into some statistic number. ALS

50:50

does not have that. What

50:52

I can say is I'm in a group

50:54

of young women who are diagnosed with ALS before

50:56

the age of 35. I

50:59

think there's like 80 members right now

51:02

and it's growing at about like

51:04

two women a month. So

51:06

it's definitely not the old person's

51:08

disease we all think it is. I do think

51:10

like it's more likely that you get it I

51:13

think between ages like 50 and 70 but

51:16

like it really does not discriminate as

51:18

a disease. It can strike anyone, anytime,

51:20

any genetic background

51:23

like it does not discriminate. What

51:25

are some of the concerns of the young women

51:27

in this group who are in their 30s and

51:30

just you know living their lives with ALS? Yeah,

51:33

well when I first got diagnosed I was

51:35

put in touch with a local support group

51:37

and I joined that support group and it

51:39

was me and mostly older men. There were

51:42

a few like middle aged women but I

51:44

remember joining and being like how

51:46

did I get here? Like how is

51:48

this my cross to pair? It

51:50

just felt like I was like did

51:53

lightning strike here or is this like

51:55

not representative? And so I went in

51:57

search of a group that had younger.

52:00

faces and was put in touch with this group,

52:02

her ALS story. And we

52:04

have a group chat. I would say like

52:07

it's just been really nice to talk to people in

52:09

the same stages of life. Like

52:11

some people are single

52:14

and dating. Some women are newly

52:16

married or like they got married

52:18

and got diagnosed two weeks later.

52:20

We have a girl who came back from

52:22

her honeymoon and started flirting her speech and got

52:24

diagnosed. It's just like not what

52:26

you expect your 30s or

52:29

sometimes 20s to be. Like you think you

52:31

have this huge runway of

52:33

a future and then this comes and

52:35

just tops that future off. So

52:37

a lot of it is you know

52:40

questions about relationships. There's obviously

52:42

like the medical side where

52:44

we talk about symptoms and

52:46

management. But I think a lot of

52:48

it is just like bonding over dark

52:50

humor at this point because like what else

52:53

can you do other than laugh if you're

52:55

being told like you're in your 30s and

52:57

you're dying. Which is like a blunt way

52:59

of what the doctors say. They never say

53:01

it like that but all of us

53:03

just kind of like it's not even commiserating.

53:05

I think we're honestly finding

53:08

more joy in life knowing that

53:10

it's probably going to be shorter and

53:12

we just kind of bond over it. That's

53:15

incredibly profound. Also very

53:18

Jewish. Just saying. No wait which part?

53:20

Just the idea of dark humor and

53:22

like making light of a

53:24

terrible situation when there's nothing else you

53:26

can do right. You know at least

53:29

I'm gonna laugh about it and I'm

53:31

gonna take control over it by making

53:33

light of it in a way. Yeah

53:35

it's like what else can you do?

53:37

Like I'm sure there are people with

53:39

ALS who just grieve and they're depressed

53:41

and like that's fair too. But after

53:43

like two months of doing that I

53:45

was like okay there's you know if

53:47

I've got five years left like I

53:50

really don't want to spend it in this

53:52

bed eating more M&Ms. And so I just

53:54

kind of like started laughing about it and

53:56

haven't really stopped since. And I will say

53:59

like the comedy writes itself. Honestly, like

54:01

there's some stuff with ALS where you

54:03

just have to make it a joke

54:05

because it's unbelievable. Like I was walking

54:07

out of a restaurant with one of

54:09

my best friends. We went into the

54:11

bathroom and we came out. I was

54:13

using my walker and there was

54:15

like a trail of toilet paper attached to my

54:17

walker. And I like looked

54:19

at my friend and she was like, God really

54:21

is not giving you a break. Like he just

54:23

said like, let's double down on Brooke today. And

54:25

I was like, how is this my

54:27

life at 30? Like you would picture your like

54:29

glamorous place, you know, in the future when you're

54:31

like, Oh, in my 30s, I'm going to have

54:33

my life together. I'm gonna have a family. And

54:35

I was like, I'm trying to figure out how

54:37

to get toilet paper off of my walker. Like,

54:40

can I break? The work you do is so

54:42

inspiring. It's also taken you to some pretty amazing

54:44

places. Will you tell us a little bit about

54:47

some of the places you've been, places you've spoken,

54:49

places you've been interviewed? The first huge

54:51

one was the Today Show that they

54:53

split into my DMs. Like that's how

54:55

that all happened was the Today Show

54:57

DM'd me. But then in the last

54:59

month, it's been like ALS event

55:03

season. A few weeks ago,

55:05

I spoke at the ALS

55:07

TDI event. And they put me

55:09

like right before this really inspirational speaker.

55:12

And I was like, screw that,

55:14

like, I'm not gonna be able to compete with her. So

55:16

instead of doing any kind of inspirational

55:18

thing, I decided to do stand up

55:20

comedy, which I've never done before. And

55:23

I just like wrote down all of my jokes and

55:25

sent them to a couple of my friends who are

55:27

comedians. And I was like, Can you revise this? And

55:29

yeah, I just like did an ALS version

55:32

of stand up comedy. And then

55:34

last week, and I got to be a

55:36

square in an ALS Hollywood squares event. I

55:39

never watched a show. I'm sure you didn't either. It was before

55:41

our time, but it felt pretty cool. I

55:43

was like, I am a star now. I'm in I'm

55:45

a square. That's amazing. So can you

55:47

tell us a little bit about the limp brisket

55:49

limp brisket? We talked about how to say this

55:51

last time, the limp brisket universe. My

55:53

first symptom was a limp. I was trying

55:55

to think of like good usernames on tik tok.

55:57

And everyone on tik tok has really dumb usernames.

56:00

like it's a place where usernames usually don't

56:02

matter. Like I get comments from

56:04

like, I don't know if this is appropriate,

56:06

but like Lord Farquaad's left nut will comment

56:08

on my, and I'm like, that's

56:10

a username? Like, how is that possible? And

56:13

so usernames don't have a ton

56:15

of significance, but I was trying to think of

56:17

a really good like ALS pun or like motor

56:19

neuron type pun. And since I was limping, I

56:22

was like, oh, I'll just do like, instead of

56:24

limp-biscuit, I'll just like throw my name in the

56:26

middle of it and make it like limp-bruise-kit. And

56:29

now it's been like a year and a half

56:31

and I've like fully committed to the bit. Limp-biscuit's

56:34

like nobody's favorite band. Gen

56:36

Z doesn't even know who it is. Like, I'm

56:39

like, I don't know that this is the right

56:41

choice, but we're sticking with it. But

56:43

I like it, it's catchy, and there's merch, which

56:45

is really the most important thing. I

56:48

worked with this company Bonfire that like will

56:50

donate proceeds to an organization. I was like,

56:52

oh, that's perfect. And they helped

56:54

make me like a band style t-shirt. So

56:57

it looked like a limp-biscuit t-shirt, it

56:59

said limp-bruise-kit, and then on the back it said like keep rolling,

57:01

rolling, because it's one of their songs.

57:04

So will you tell people how they can

57:06

follow you, get your swag, your merch? I'm

57:08

limp-bruise-kit across all platforms. And the

57:10

link is in my bio, it's just

57:13

like a bonfire.com/limp-bruise-kit, if anyone is

57:15

curious. Will you spell that for

57:18

our listeners?

57:20

L-I-M-P-B-R-O-O-Z-K-I-T. If

57:22

our listeners want to learn more about ALS, where should they

57:25

go? They shouldn't Google it, but where

57:27

should they direct them to someplace? Don't Google it. Well,

57:29

I would say if you have it, don't Google it.

57:31

Or if you think you have it, don't Google it,

57:33

because you'll convince yourself you have anything if you Google

57:35

it. Whenever people ask me, I'm

57:37

like, I have two recommendations for you. One,

57:39

if you get diagnosed, find a support group.

57:41

And that's for anything, like ALS, not

57:44

ALS, like whatever it is, support

57:46

groups will make you feel so much better

57:49

and so much less alone. But the

57:51

second place, now there's a

57:53

website called Roon, R-O-O-N

57:56

as in Nancy. It's

57:58

an app that you can download to your. phone or

58:00

its website. And it's basically

58:02

like the place you should

58:05

go to navigate ALS, like they

58:07

recruited a ton of us, people

58:09

living with ALS, top

58:11

doctors, top providers, caregivers, and

58:13

they interviewed us with like 100 questions

58:15

each and just made little clips of

58:18

all of our answers. So you can go

58:20

in and do like, I was just

58:22

diagnosed, what do I need to know, type

58:24

of guide and it'll guide you through all

58:26

of our videos. So it's a lot less

58:28

overwhelming. And a lot less

58:30

scary. Like I think with Google, they just give

58:33

you statistics. Like if I had looked at Google,

58:35

I'd be like, Oh, I should have been dead

58:37

three years ago. But if you

58:39

go on to rune, it's a little gentler

58:41

and you can understand like, how

58:43

to actually navigate the disease. And

58:46

as a Gentile, I know we've decided that you're

58:48

Jewish, we've taken you. I don't know how you

58:50

feel about that. But we've we've claimed you. You

58:52

did have a Gentile of the week question for

58:54

us. I do. What

58:57

celebrity like theft embodies Jewish

58:59

culture in your mind? I

59:01

said Adam Sandler last time and I really stand by it

59:03

because he's just like a big dewy

59:05

Jew, you know, like he's like, got

59:07

that like schlubby dad thing. He's like

59:10

he owns it. He does these

59:12

Jewish movies, the Hanukkah song, like I think

59:14

he's very in your face Jewish. And I

59:17

like, I think more than ever, we need

59:19

that like, super mainstream, funny,

59:22

pop culture icon at this point,

59:24

who doesn't ever shy away from

59:26

his Jewish ness. What's your answer?

59:29

I should I should say Josh, because he's not

59:31

here. But also how do you fill out Larry

59:33

David is my answer. Like it's more of a

59:35

question post back. I think he's another great answer

59:37

here. I found like, I don't like watching Curb

59:39

Your Enthusiasm. It makes me very uncomfortable. That's how

59:41

my boyfriend feels about it. He's like, I get

59:43

a pit in my stomach when I watch. I'm

59:45

just like, Oh, yeah. I love it. But look,

59:47

I'm not surprised that you love Larry David your

59:50

whole like you've been talking this whole time about

59:52

like, looking at dark things

59:54

and finding humor looking at like, uncomfortable,

59:56

bad negative situations and just being like,

59:58

this is so absurd. I have to

1:00:00

laugh, which is like totally the Larry David thing. I

1:00:03

feel like you should be on an episode. I'm

1:00:05

down. What's something very horrible he could do

1:00:07

in terms of like the things you experience

1:00:10

from people like not understanding or not well

1:00:12

accommodating. So in my like stand

1:00:15

up, my sit down stand up,

1:00:17

I did my riskiest joke, which

1:00:19

actually got the most laughs was

1:00:22

MS has like Selma Blair and Christina

1:00:24

Applegate making it look super chic. And

1:00:26

like all these millennials are looking to them being

1:00:28

like, okay, I like I could fuck with MS.

1:00:30

Like they're like walking with the president with their

1:00:33

canes and like getting their stars in the Hollywood

1:00:35

walk of fame. It's like, like a

1:00:37

big MS is doing something. But

1:00:40

with ALS, like we really

1:00:43

don't have that. And

1:00:45

people say like, Oh, well, you guys have

1:00:47

Stephen Hawking, which sure, but like he didn't

1:00:49

make ALS cool in my mind. Like he's

1:00:51

a genius. He's a legend. But like, did

1:00:53

he make ALS cool? And so

1:00:55

then I went on to be like, I

1:00:58

would never wish ALS upon anyone. But

1:01:01

if I had to pick like, if

1:01:03

a Kardashian got ALS, like I would

1:01:05

be saved in a week, like they would,

1:01:08

Chris Jenner would take this disease down in like

1:01:10

no time. And so I feel like

1:01:12

Larry David could do something where he's like wishing ALS

1:01:14

upon someone in order to help the disease. It

1:01:17

was a bold joke. Luckily, I was in a room

1:01:19

full of people who had experience with

1:01:21

ALS. And so like, no one took it

1:01:23

in a bad way. But when I posted

1:01:25

it on TikTok, I got a couple like this is truly

1:01:28

true. No,

1:01:30

that is amazing. That is brilliant. And I feel like we

1:01:32

can make this this this bit happen for

1:01:34

enthusiasm. We're like he and you are in a room

1:01:36

trying to figure out who the celebrity should

1:01:39

be. Who's going to be like the

1:01:41

face of this? Yeah, I mean, there's not yeah, there's

1:01:43

there's not like a short list of people that like

1:01:45

I've thought about like, I wouldn't wish it. But like,

1:01:47

I just think about if they were to get it,

1:01:50

wouldn't that be really helpful for the group?

1:01:52

But we have you Brooke E. B. We

1:01:55

have you and on that you are chic.

1:01:57

You are fun. You make good videos. You

1:01:59

got the Jokes. Got jokes.

1:02:01

Yeah. Brooke Eby, thank

1:02:03

you for being on Unorthodox.

1:02:06

Our listeners can follow along

1:02:08

on Instagram and TikTok at

1:02:10

LimpBruzkitt. That's L-I-M-T-B-R-O-O-Z-K-I-T. Thank you

1:02:12

so much. Perfectly pronounced. Thank

1:02:15

you. All

1:02:23

right, time for some mazel tubs. Who wants to kick

1:02:25

us off? I've got a quick

1:02:27

mazel tub to my favorite Simpsons character,

1:02:30

Ned Flongru. It's

1:02:32

been a tough episode for him. Just a

1:02:34

little hat tip, not an anti-Semite. Boys, we're

1:02:36

Jewish now. Ohio! So

1:02:39

white! In fact, probably a

1:02:41

file a Semite. So in

1:02:44

a note of atonement, while I take back

1:02:46

nothing I've ever said about Belgium, as listeners

1:02:48

of the show know, I did make the

1:02:50

shuva. I did repent when it comes to

1:02:52

ice hockey, a sport which I

1:02:55

used to say unkind things about and

1:02:57

were taking the task and now I'm

1:02:59

a big fan of. So my mazel

1:03:01

tub this week goes to New York

1:03:04

Rangers defenseman Adam Fox, who is spreading

1:03:06

some shmear. He partnered with Brooklyn Bagel

1:03:08

and Coffee Company to create a special

1:03:11

video series called Bagels and

1:03:13

Fox. Because of course, it needs to

1:03:15

have a pun in the title. Quote,

1:03:17

as a Jewish kid from Long Island,

1:03:19

a bagel partnership is something I'm extremely

1:03:21

excited about, said Fox, thereby confirming every

1:03:24

stereotype of budgets you ever had.

1:03:26

He will now also have his

1:03:28

own bagel at their stores called

1:03:30

the Foxy. It is a Sesame

1:03:33

bagel with get this, fried eggs,

1:03:35

lox, cream cheese, and tomato. Bold

1:03:37

move there, the eggs and the lox. I love

1:03:40

it. Adam Fox, mazel tub. Well,

1:03:42

that is amazing. I have a belated

1:03:44

birthday mazel tub to my aunt, Pam

1:03:46

Harris, super listener, super supporter of this

1:03:48

show and of everything that I do.

1:03:50

And I just want to say happy

1:03:52

birthday, Pam. Unorthodox

1:03:56

is a production of Tablet Studios. The show is hosted

1:03:58

by me, Stephanie Botnik with the L.D. and

1:04:00

Joshua Molina. We're produced and edited by Josh

1:04:02

Cross, Robert Scaramuccia, Quinn Waller, and Ellie Blyer,

1:04:04

and our team includes Tanya Singer, Courtney Hazlett,

1:04:07

and Daron Ruskay, with help from Sam Hacker

1:04:09

and Jordana La Rosa. Our episode art is

1:04:11

by Esther Werdiger, our logo and swag is

1:04:13

by Jenny Rosbrook, our theme music is by

1:04:15

Gollum, and our news and mailbox themes are

1:04:17

by Steve Martin. We'd love to hear from

1:04:20

you. Send us emails at unorthodoxatabitmag.com. Years later,

1:04:22

respond to them and tell us that you

1:04:24

were wrong or actually,

1:04:26

more likely, tell us that we were wrong. Leave

1:04:28

us a message on our listener line, 914-570-4869. Until

1:04:33

next week, shalom, friends.