0:01

News of the Jews.

0:05

This is Unorthodox. The universe is

0:07

leading Jewish podcast. I'm your host.

0:10

Mark Oppenheimer joined as ever by my cohost,

0:12

tablet deputy editor Stephanie Butnik.

0:14

Hello. I actually have to say tablet has a

0:16

new deputy editor. named Jeremy Stern.

0:18

I need to figure out what my title is now

0:20

because as of like, I think November

0:22

one, he officially took over. So we will figure

0:25

out what my title

0:25

Does that bump you? We can't have two deputy

0:28

editors.

0:28

I think I'm I've been undeputized.

0:31

Yeah. I'm happy to give it to him. I just need to

0:33

make up a new title. I don't even know

0:34

what what am I now? Am I am

0:36

I a senior

0:37

editor? You you look out because

0:39

you host the shows. We don't have to know what your title

0:41

is.

0:41

No one will ever know. I would

0:43

say this, if you have a job

0:45

with a defined title that you actually understand

0:48

what you do, you're doing it wrong. You should

0:50

never understand anyone else's that

0:54

Speaking

0:54

of which, we have

0:56

And tablet editor at large.

0:59

We get the most meaningless of all

1:01

titles. Do you tell me what I'm talking

1:03

Tough you yet. He is still

1:05

at large.

1:05

Is it hard? There was all these jokes about

1:07

that title was invented in the magazine industry

1:10

to say editor without pay

1:12

or Tough, and enter without editor

1:14

without an office. It was just we'll keep

1:16

you on the masthead, but you get not educated

1:18

for editor. on the lamb because they always wanted

1:20

to be on the lamb. Two

1:23

Jews this week, one of them is NBC

1:25

anchor Katy Tough. who joins us

1:27

to talk about her memoir Tough draft. And the other is

1:29

writer Douglas Sentry. You know he's Jewish

1:32

because of his seriously Oshkenazi Jew

1:34

last name century. he Talkers about

1:36

his new book, The Last Boss of Brighton, which

1:38

tells the story of the Rise of the Russian

1:40

mob, which has a lot of Jews in it. And

1:42

if you wanna talk about Tough Jews, Russian mob

1:45

Jews, thems or some tough Jews.

1:47

We're back from last time we

1:49

did the show, it was era of Thanksgiving. It

1:51

is now post Thanksgiving. It's like Shminia

1:54

Thanksgiving, you know, the day after, the

1:56

day after. Did people have a good

1:58

time, Tough, Leal, was Yeah. I

2:00

I gotta tell you, I I found

2:02

it really weird because Look,

2:04

I love celebrating Rochodyk as

2:07

much as the next guy. But this past

2:09

Thursday, Rochodyk gives you two

2:11

among us who among us doesn't like it when

2:13

they throw in an extra holland just when you think

2:15

you're out the door of synagogue. So it's

2:17

the it's the New Month. You got an extra twenty

2:19

minutes in your morning. So so all of a sudden,

2:21

it's it's It's Roche Tough Kisslev, and

2:24

I'm preparing, you know, to celebrate as I always

2:26

do. And and then all around me, people are posting

2:29

really thoughtful pictures of things they

2:31

did for Oshkoshkosh stuff. A lot of people made

2:33

Talkers. People did, you know,

2:35

yes. As used tradition. It's really

2:37

I mean, people went all out for Kisslev

2:40

this year. That's the spirit I like. Stephanie,

2:42

so L'Oreal had a good a good, a good, Kisslev.

2:44

Did you celebrate Rochefortish Kiss left

2:46

or any other holiday with your family?

2:48

I did. So as listeners

2:50

know, I spent Thanksgiving with the button x Black

2:52

Friday with the co ins, and we took eat it to the

2:54

mall. That girl loves the mall.

2:56

And okay. Sometimes this

2:58

thing happens where it, like, is revealed

3:00

that I, like, grew up in gray neck where most

3:02

everyone was Jewish. And I, like, I come from

3:04

an alien planet where I think I'm the, like,

3:06

a super majority ethnic experience you're

3:09

not giving to your treasure daughter who's gonna grow

3:11

up you know On the upper west

3:13

side. On the east no one is

3:15

Jewish. Yeah.

3:15

So we went into the mall on Black Friday. So, you

3:17

know, this happened in college when I would say like,

3:19

Oh, wait,

3:20

which day is Christmas again? And they were like, what

3:22

do you mean? And I was like, it's what day is it? And still,

3:24

I'm kind of like, it's the twenty fifth. Right? Like, I didn't realize

3:26

it never

3:26

moved. I have a lot of things. Like, like,

3:29

a real Christmas blind spot. Accredited to

3:31

my parents, like, an amazing upbringing

3:32

where, like, I thought everyone was Jewish and

3:34

Christmas was, like, a very niche holiday celebrated

3:36

by some people. in other towns. Celebrated

3:39

by Jews who like writing Christmas music.

3:41

It's very easy. Yes.

3:42

Exactly. Who made this American holiday

3:44

for you? But so we're at the mall and I

3:46

see this enormously long line

3:48

of, like, plaid, tired,

3:51

well dressed children

3:53

and I realized that they're going to have their photo

3:55

taken with the mall Santa. And

3:57

if you're really, like, witness this phenomena

3:59

and this is kind of

3:59

embarrassed because before we got on the Zoom, I

4:02

said what

4:02

I'm about to say and I got the response that I'm

4:04

probably about to get, which is like, did

4:06

you know they have like a real photographer there

4:09

taking photos of the very,

4:11

like, fancily dressed children on Santa's lap.

4:13

It's true that when we were presuming for

4:15

this zoom, that you were slagged

4:17

for your ignorance. So I

4:19

actually have to say growing up where I

4:21

did a very Christian area. My local

4:23

malls, there actually wasn't a photographer.

4:25

There was a Santa in Santa's Court.

4:28

And if you were of the

4:30

gentile persuasion or I know a Jewish dude

4:32

who nagged your parents. Is it like the Yeah. There were

4:34

little I think

4:34

there might have been elves around. I don't know.

4:37

But Judge Judy was definitely there.

4:39

But but Tough, Judi Scheinland

4:42

was definitely there. And you

4:44

you got up on Santa's lap, which I think my mother always hurried

4:46

us. And I think you had to pay a dollar or fifty

4:48

dollars or something. And I think my mother always hurried

4:50

us along like what it think my mother figured

4:52

there was some you

4:53

know, that those sanders were not to be trusted with little

4:55

children on their I don't know. There was there was some paranoia

4:58

about it was like scout master,

5:00

gentlemen, allergy. were Jewish? I

5:02

don't think my mother was in We

5:04

knew who Santa was. I mean, I think

5:06

my parents weren't against us going over to

5:08

neighbor's houses to trim the trees. but I will

5:10

say, there was actually not. I am ninety

5:12

nine percent certain and my friends from the 413

5:15

can can back me up or not or correct

5:17

me. There was no fancy, schmanci

5:19

photographer there. Parents whipped out their

5:21

little thirty five millimeters with codeochrome in

5:23

them and snapped a picture of the kid

5:25

bouncing on being dandled on

5:27

Santa's knee. I actually think

5:29

it is not the case that you missed

5:31

the boat growing up. I think that it's

5:33

a fairly recent innovation that there would be

5:35

fancy schmanci photographers cell It was it

5:37

was like Sure.

5:38

Sure Jay, there was like the lighting things

5:41

Short Hills Mall is where it's at, and there was an

5:43

incredibly long

5:43

By the way, that's probably because the

5:45

Santa is also the the guy

5:47

by

5:48

of congregation of Israel. The

5:50

photographer is the kiddish club

5:52

president, and it's just a huge fundraiser for

5:54

the show. gonna say, is it ShoreTel's Mall, the

5:56

Joe's most expensive mall? You know

5:58

that's that's how you know

5:59

that's the place to go. By the way, on his off

6:02

break, he turns around, like, excuse me, are you

6:04

Jewish? Could you put the fill in the here's

6:06

here's my

6:06

next the next piece is that, like, Santa was

6:08

down on the main floor. And then on the second

6:10

floor where I was watching, Oh,

6:12

Hanukkah, Harry. No. It was

6:14

literally too hot out guys putting to

6:16

fill in on on a guy outside of Abercrombie. And

6:19

I was like, what's going on right

6:21

now? I

6:21

I'm going to go out on the limb here. I'm gonna

6:23

ask producer Quinn Waller while

6:25

we're recording to kindly Google

6:28

Santa

6:28

to fill in. I bet

6:30

you that there was some all in America

6:32

with the exact same setting in which

6:34

the kebab guys went to Santa -- Santa

6:36

Santa. -- on Santa's break. they said

6:38

to Santa, are you Jewish? Santa is He's

6:40

supposed to put on to fill up. Wait.

6:42

Please please find us this photo.

6:44

So

6:44

here's the thing. Santa

6:46

is a jolly man

6:48

with a long white beard.

6:50

He's

6:50

a tremendous wisdom. A Hasidic

6:51

Jew. Yeah. And like a funny hat.

6:54

Like, are there is there a

6:55

big business? He's a guy like Also,

6:57

who emerges from behind his extender

6:59

once a year to interact with people,

7:01

but otherwise, is in seclusion.

7:03

Oh, by the way, it took me

7:05

literally ninety six seconds

7:08

to find the exact photo.

7:11

on Fahad, but I do feel it on

7:13

Santa. So it's

7:13

like if you were on the ground floor, you were sitting on

7:15

Santa's left. If you were on the top

7:16

floor, you were getting, like, cornered by Fahad

7:19

asking if you were Jewish. That was amazing.

7:21

That

7:21

was an America, like a chef's

7:23

kiss America moment.

7:24

And a flyless

7:26

schwalter fly tag to to all

7:28

who observe.

7:36

the

7:47

News of the Jews, we have two unimportant stories

7:49

and one very important story. Unimportant story

7:52

number one comes to us from the Jewish Geographic agency,

7:54

bagels at the World Cup.

7:56

cutter may have caused an uproar by banning

7:58

alcohol at the World Cup.

7:59

But for

7:59

religious Jewish fans, some kosher

8:02

offerings will be available. Apparently,

8:04

there's a kosher catering program that

8:06

according to the JTA does not involve five

8:08

course meals or fine dining, but

8:10

does allow for kosher bagels

8:12

to be baked in a catering space provided by

8:14

Qatar Airways and delivered to

8:16

those who need them during the

8:18

world. cup. I am

8:20

going to go out on a limb and say, I bet these

8:22

pickles are not very good. and

8:25

I also pity the from fans

8:27

who showed up only to discover that they would

8:29

be eating an all bagel diet

8:32

for a month. I mean,

8:33

it's amazing, like, the lasting impact

8:35

of the Abraham Accord is that now

8:37

all Middle Eastern countries have

8:38

bagels. Montreal. Alright.

8:41

Do they have UAE bagels? Do that UAE

8:45

bagels are traditionally smaller

8:47

and sweeter. That's a whole controversy. Nobody

8:49

likes those. This is such a great

8:51

way to mess with the Jews.

8:53

Like, you could beat the bagels you could drink

8:55

whatever flavor you want to be like, oh, you

8:57

order the beagle. I'm sorry. We only have

8:59

rainbow and poppy.

9:01

We have cranbury bagels and also the only

9:03

way to toast them is just to leave them outside.

9:05

Don't spoon that'll toast it. Don't spoon that.

9:08

But that's that's your punishment. News

9:10

of the almost Jews this week, Michelle Williams,

9:12

who has started many fine Hollywood movies, but

9:14

most recently has a role in the Fableman's

9:16

Stephen Spielberg latest movie. It

9:18

turns out that Michelle Williams, who in the

9:20

movie plays Philberg's character's mother,

9:22

has a, quote, Jewish family of her own,

9:24

according to the article we read, told the Wall

9:26

Street Journal that she had her Jewish husband, director

9:28

Thomas Cail, are raising their two young children

9:30

with Judaism and that she is studying the

9:32

religion herself. So here's what I love, right, is

9:34

that the article then goes on to say that

9:36

she and her husband have picked out a

9:38

synagogue for their family. and also

9:40

that she has positive memories of Jewish traditions from her

9:42

Jewish childhood friends. God bless the

9:45

ubiquitous Jewish childhood friends who give

9:47

gentiles everywhere positive warm memories.

9:49

of jobless dinners and holidays at

9:51

the Jewish homes. What's funny is I didn't have any

9:53

of these memories, but apparently every gentile celebrity

9:56

in the land was

9:57

in warm, nice job at dinner with

9:59

my

9:59

Jewish family. Give me positive childhood

10:02

memories of two kids. My

10:04

husband just kicked me to Santa. That's

10:06

right. It's Santa Ed Fredleys. She got,

10:08

like, warm, you know, Hamish Yiddish

10:10

kite from her Jewish friends. But I'm really

10:12

intrigued that she and her husband have picked out an

10:14

unnamed synagogue for their family. And

10:16

I would like to know. I'd like to crowdsource

10:18

They're in Brooklyn. Right? Has everyone

10:21

see you soon. Michelle Williams turn

10:23

up at their school for any reason

10:25

whatsoever. Like, she's playing COI with us,

10:27

we're not gonna allow it. We want to

10:29

know,

10:29

come on friends, New York friends, Brooklyn

10:31

friends, write to us on orthodontic talentmag dot com

10:33

and tell us which shoe will have

10:35

Michelle Williams and her husband, Thomas Kale, picked

10:37

out. Does that mean they've joined it? Have they been or

10:39

have they just walked by it? It said, that's

10:41

our synagogue. Which is to say their relationship to

10:43

it is that of most Jews. So they're and nothing could

10:46

be more welcoming than saying, do you

10:48

actually really go to Shaul?

10:50

That's right. And nothing could be

10:52

more embracing. and warm.

10:54

Welcoming Jews -- This is that. -- fifty

10:57

fifty seven what what are

10:59

we? Fifty seven seventy. Williams.

11:01

Yeah. But Remember, we told you there was

11:03

an important article this week. I would like

11:05

to invite one of my colleagues to

11:07

read from the Guardian's story

11:09

headlined Prosecutors see

11:11

conviction of ex Nazi camp secretary,

11:13

age

11:13

ninety seven, will allow me.

11:16

From the Guardian, A

11:18

ninety

11:18

six year old former secretary at a

11:20

Nazi concentration camp has gone

11:22

on trial in Germany for

11:24

alleged complicity and

11:26

the murder of more than eleven thousand people

11:28

in prison there. Three

11:29

weeks after she attempted to flee

11:32

the proceedings in what must have been

11:34

the world's slowest water

11:36

case. Now,

11:38

here's my favorite part. was

11:44

pushed into the court in its

11:46

home, Northern Germany,

11:48

strapped into a blue ambulance

11:50

wheelchair, and clutching a brown cloth

11:52

bag. a silk patterned scarf,

11:54

sunglasses, and a medical mask

11:56

cover her face. Now, I'm sorry. I'm

11:58

gonna I'm gonna pause there for a moment. if if

11:59

you're if you're if you're given

12:02

Christian name is You

12:05

know from the time you're like, three,

12:07

you're going to be a concentration camp

12:09

guard. Like, before there were nazis, e m cow

12:11

food. And I was like, what do you wanna be when you grow up,

12:13

sweetie? I don't know. Like, either a chef

12:15

or a Nazi guard. had no

12:17

other career path. My favorite thing about the

12:19

story Talkers, like, she says she has

12:21

no idea what she was doing. And the

12:23

biggest thing of evidence against her is that they

12:25

defendant would have been able to see large

12:27

parts of the camp from her office,

12:29

including the area where the prisoners

12:32

arrive. was also been able to see and smell

12:34

smoke from the burning of bodies at the Krumovgraduum. They're

12:36

like, your office was literally right

12:38

there. Like, like, sorry, bitch. like

12:40

you were there. And did you notice

12:43

how many Jews came in and how

12:45

few left? Did you ever put two

12:47

and two together? and come up with six billion.

12:49

Okay. But here's the kind of this isn't funny,

12:51

but it's a little funny. She's being tried

12:53

in juvenile

12:54

court. It's kind

12:57

of funny. due to her age where the

12:59

alleged crimes were committed

13:01

because she was eighteen when she started

13:03

working at Stuhof Tough, And

13:05

apparently, that made you a juvenile in

13:07

Germany at the time. She's a thousand years

13:09

old now. It's like it's like that

13:11

horror movie Esther. Where it's like

13:14

It's like I'm seven two and

13:16

three. German prisons are already

13:18

well known for their shall

13:20

we say country club like atmosphere

13:22

where you know you get roft twice

13:24

a week and By Ralph.

13:27

By myself. as

13:28

you get let out for, you know,

13:31

conjugal visits, and you I mean, the

13:33

northern Europeans do prison right as

13:35

I like to think of it. How

13:37

not

13:37

Tough. Do you think they're juvenile? This

13:39

is so funny. The juvenile person she gets

13:41

sent to may be a better place than the retirement

13:44

homes she's otherwise here. Where is my

13:46

god for him right now. He's

13:48

probably in some horrible

13:50

prison like facility. That

13:52

bitch should be like Sure. Prison,

13:54

guilty of killing all the Jews. Just

13:56

probably somewhere better than this

13:58

death trap.

13:59

the company would be

14:02

nicer, like, she should be suing

14:04

them to go to prison. But

14:06

but but how is the view? Although, you know what

14:08

the terrible thing is, you know what they would serve

14:11

exclusively in prison. Bagon's from the

14:13

World Cup. Do

14:16

you think that even in Germany, old folks homes

14:18

are just kind of on principle mostly

14:20

Jewish, the way in America most old people? Do

14:22

you know Jews are disproportionately represented among

14:24

the old people. No. What even actually, this

14:26

is a way to get away from the Jews that her that

14:28

her retirement homes like so many

14:30

Jews and such small grandchildren. There

14:33

are no old Jews in Germany for, you

14:35

know, obviously, there's no old Jews. There's

14:37

also no funny people. a no country

14:39

for all Jews. And I was once on a

14:41

German talk show. And if you if you wanna go

14:43

on one, it's a lot of fun. It's really

14:45

fun. And I was on this German talk show, and this

14:47

woman said to me, she said, mister Williams, why

14:49

do you think there's not so much comedy in

14:52

Germany? And I said, did you ever think you killed

14:54

all the funny people?

15:02

and

15:05

and

15:09

Katie

15:09

Tur

15:15

is an anchor for NBC News.

15:18

She hosts Katie Tour reports

15:20

on weekdays on MSNBC,

15:22

and she joined Stephanie to talk about

15:24

her memoir, Rough our

15:26

experience covering the Trump campaign and what

15:28

it was like growing up with parents who

15:30

brought new meaning to the phrase

15:32

helicopter parent.

15:38

Katyr,

15:40

welcome to Thanks

15:42

for having me, Stephanie. The thing that I think

15:45

about you is that you sort of bridge generations

15:47

really, really well. Like, my MSNBC mom

15:49

is obsessed with

15:50

you. But like so am

15:51

I? And like I feel like there's not that much

15:53

these days in culture that like unites

15:55

different generations. Is that something you you

15:57

hear a lot? you know, I don't hear it a

15:59

lot. I love

15:59

it because I wanna find a way to

16:02

talk to my friends. My

16:04

friends

16:04

don't watch cable news

16:06

at all. And I mean to the point

16:08

where I was covering the instruction

16:10

live last year,

16:12

literally live on television, as

16:14

people are storming the capital steps.

16:16

and

16:16

like democracy might fall.

16:19

And my best friend in the world

16:21

texts me, what do you think about these pillows?

16:24

And I said,

16:26

Jessica, get in front of a television.

16:28

The world might be ending. What

16:30

are you doing? Nextiva pillows?

16:32

And

16:32

so I love that idea that I

16:34

might be

16:35

able to talk to multi generations

16:37

because I do get a lot of MSNBC moms

16:40

so I love. But I'm finding lately, I am

16:42

getting a certain level

16:43

of younger folks out there

16:45

who are watching, which makes me feel happy like

16:47

I have a future and I can pay my

16:50

mortgage and quote my children. You

16:52

have a future and we have a future

16:54

collectively. Right? Because news

16:56

is important to maybe

16:58

important to the younger generation. I

16:59

I am not promising that, but

17:02

yes.

17:02

Hopefully, we all still have a

17:04

future. So

17:04

your Wikipedia page has one of my

17:06

favorite

17:06

Wikipedia page euphemisms, which

17:08

is she is of Jewish descent.

17:11

Oh, which is the weirdest thing. We talk

17:13

about a lot on this podcast. Like, they don't

17:15

say she's Jewish. Like, how do you

17:17

identify? So I don't identify as

17:19

anything, really.

17:19

I I identify as open

17:21

to everything and skeptical of everything

17:23

at the same time. But my

17:26

dad comes from Jewish

17:28

stock, he could say, my dad's

17:30

dad was Jewish. His mom really

17:33

loved the idea of being

17:35

Jewish and wanted to

17:37

be Jewish. and took on

17:39

speaking yiddish and making

17:41

mottable soup, and

17:43

she loved the culture of it. So he

17:45

grew up sort of feeling culturally

17:47

more Jewish, no, his mother was not.

17:49

And then we had a degree of

17:51

that as well because my grandmother

17:53

again was so into it. So we went

17:55

to Temple, like, a couple times a

17:57

year, maybe We looked the candles for Hanukkah, we made

17:59

Bakkas, but that was about the extent

18:01

of it. I didn't get Bakkah, mid

18:03

side. All of my friends growing up did,

18:05

so I was very jealous. because they

18:07

had these big blowout parties at

18:09

rivaled weddings and, you know, you get

18:11

those spray painted caracatures on

18:13

t shirts and it all just seemed very

18:16

cool. So I grew up alongside it. I grew

18:18

up feeling somewhat close to it, but

18:20

not defined by it

18:22

because it didn't consume much of

18:24

our lives. a of an on air

18:26

figure. Do you ever experience like, are

18:27

people like, do they identify you in a

18:29

negative way as Jewish? Occasionally, I'll

18:32

get some

18:32

of those ugly Twitter and Nastygrams.

18:35

but not too often.

18:37

I mean, I'll get like the basic, oh, the media

18:39

is run by Jews and you're a Jew and

18:41

you're controlling the world and you're evil and George

18:43

Soros is your puppet master. you

18:44

know, the stock level insult

18:47

from

18:47

the Twitter box or trolls, whichever

18:49

they are. It is

18:50

interesting that, you know, my Wikipedia page does

18:52

that. So I assume that I get quite a

18:54

bit more. A Wikipedia page also says I'm six three.

18:57

Wait. Does it?

18:57

Yeah. I think so. I'm five three, but

18:59

I've kept it because I love it.

19:02

That's amazing. Maybe it's been changed,

19:04

but I I love the idea of being six

19:06

three. That's incredible and completely

19:08

fact checked for sure. you

19:10

know,

19:10

the other interesting thing, generationally,

19:12

is that your new book, Ruffed

19:14

draft, memoir, is a lot about your parents

19:16

who really, really played this

19:17

pivotal role in the culture sort

19:20

of to a previous generation. So would

19:22

you tell us a little bit by your parents? So I

19:24

think if you're forty or older now,

19:26

you might have an idea of who they are. Or are you

19:28

at least If I tell you what they did, you'd

19:30

say, oh, I remember that moment. They

19:32

were new journalists in the helicopter,

19:34

in

19:34

Los Angeles, in the eighties and nineties,

19:36

and they popularized the

19:39

live police pursuit. So any car

19:41

chase you saw on camera in the

19:43

nineties, my parents shot booze

19:45

in Los Angeles. they found

19:47

OJ in the slow speed pursuit. You

19:49

probably remember what that image looks

19:51

like. They captured the original Denny

19:53

beating during the LA riots

19:55

a guy that got pulled out of the red gravel truck that ripped front of

19:57

his head. They got madonna on her

19:59

clifftop

19:59

wedding to Sean Penn and madonna was

20:02

my dad, the middle Tough.

20:04

So, yeah, a lot of stuff that is very recognizable.

20:07

They were responsible

20:09

for the eighties and nineties. And could you tell us

20:11

a little

20:11

bit about your new memoir?

20:13

So my new book more, it came from a

20:15

place of me finding

20:18

myself kind of at the bottom of a

20:20

dark hole in the pandemic

20:22

where I felt the world was

20:24

really scary. I thought that we

20:26

had these big intractable problems.

20:28

The pandemic was one of politics

20:30

was another. We suddenly I mean, we weren't just disagreeing

20:32

on who to put in the White House. Now we

20:34

were disagreeing on on a life and death issue whether

20:36

the pandemic was even real. you

20:39

know, climate change. I had a

20:41

kid. I was pregnant with another kid.

20:43

And I started to think, what am I

20:45

doing with my life? Is my

20:47

job as a cable news host, making things better

20:49

or making things worse. Do I even like

20:51

doing what I'm doing? Is this

20:53

what I was supposed to be doing or did I

20:55

just follow in my parents footsteps? And in

20:57

the middle of all that soul

20:59

searching, spinning, spiraling, you

21:01

might say, My mom sent

21:03

me a hard drive, and the

21:05

hard drive was

21:05

the size of a small microwave. And

21:07

on this hard drive, contained

21:10

every piece of videotape my parents ever

21:12

shot in their career. So it's thousands and

21:14

thousands and thousands of hours

21:16

of news footage But alongside those

21:19

stories, there was every home

21:21

video they shot because my dad and

21:23

my mom

21:23

would always train the camera on

21:26

us when they weren't doing So like me

21:28

taking my first steps, me

21:31

watching Billie Idol on

21:33

MTV, and loving it, and

21:34

dancing along, me

21:36

doing a kitty report interviewing

21:38

my

21:38

brother in, like, a little plastic

21:41

car. Me graduating

21:43

from college, me graduating

21:46

from high school, me

21:47

shooting a big gun at a gun

21:49

range, like all Tough stuff of my child

21:51

and the way I grew up was on this hard drive.

21:53

And so I was excited to get it,

21:55

but I was also really apprehensive because

21:57

alongside of all the fun stuff, was also

21:59

a lot of the

21:59

dark stuff because my

22:00

dad was was a genius and he was fun

22:03

and really loving and caring,

22:05

but also very volatile. and

22:07

very angry and could be very violent. And

22:09

I knew a

22:10

lot of that was captured on

22:12

that hard drive as well and

22:14

I had been running away from

22:16

it forever. And this was

22:18

me realizing that in order to figure out those

22:20

big problems

22:20

in my own life, where am I going and what am

22:22

I doing, I had to go back into

22:25

the past figure out where I came

22:27

from. And

22:27

the book was born out of that and I

22:29

go back and

22:30

I document their history, which

22:32

is, I mean, The New York Times called it a hell of a story. I think that's

22:34

an understatement. It's absolutely bonkers

22:37

what my mom and dad did

22:39

to get into

22:40

journalism. And then what they did

22:42

when they were journalists, stuff that I could

22:45

never approximate. My dad, you know, stared down

22:47

the barrel of a gun and just kept walking

22:49

because he needed to go get a story. he

22:51

was gambling with his life very

22:53

early on. So documents all that,

22:55

but then it

22:55

also goes through my own life and journalism

22:57

and where we've come and how my parents kind of broke

23:00

journalism. And it's it's just a

23:01

big fun, quirky,

23:04

kind of sad, and scary

23:07

mix. of life

23:08

experiences that brought me here.

23:10

I love the

23:10

book. I listened to you reading it, which

23:12

I really I really enjoyed on

23:15

Audible. it's

23:15

interesting because, you know, I sort of I've known a little bit about

23:17

your parents and obviously, you know, Tough j. Like, I

23:19

understand what that was, but but hearing it especially

23:21

read by you is really, really fascinating.

23:24

especially in the context of twenty sixteen, which is sort of when

23:26

the world comes to know you. Right? Like, do you

23:28

become part of the national conversation on

23:30

the Trump campaign where you're sort of

23:33

like, entagonized regularly by Donald Trump who

23:35

would then become president. Do those moments stick

23:37

out to you like this idea that we were on the precipice of

23:39

something different in terms of journalism, in

23:41

terms of technology, like this same

23:43

inflection point. There's two things to this, which is Donald

23:45

Trump the way

23:46

we covered him in twenty sixteen and

23:48

twenty fifteen. Putting those rallies on

23:50

air and not editing them

23:53

doing a live without context. Let him say whatever he's

23:55

gonna say, and we'll wrap it up afterwards. We'll

23:57

figure it out afterwards. Just do it.

23:59

Put

23:59

it on the air now.

24:02

that sort of coverage was

24:05

created by my

24:05

parents. So the

24:07

live police chases that they covered in the

24:09

late eighties and nineties, well the nineties. that

24:11

didn't happen before they started doing it. And they

24:13

the first one that was covered live

24:16

was a

24:16

red capriola, and it was a

24:19

guy who murdered someone, stole

24:21

his car, and led the Los

24:23

Angeles police department on a high

24:25

speed chase up and down

24:27

Los Angeles. my parents had it

24:28

live. And the news director of the station they worked for

24:31

decided to cut into

24:33

regular programming. It's middle of the day.

24:35

that doesn't happen. You

24:36

don't cut in to make regular programming unless

24:38

it's a big deal special report, unless a

24:40

president gets shot. But they decide to cut in

24:42

for this police change

24:43

next day when the ratings came out,

24:46

that

24:46

police chase beat the rerun of

24:48

Mattlock that had been airing. And

24:51

it showed the station managers

24:54

that this live coverage of a

24:56

police chase was captivating.

24:58

It was a marriage of technology and tragedy. It

25:00

was which is what the LA Times called it,

25:02

tragedy because you're watching a tragedy

25:05

unfold in real time and technology

25:07

because we suddenly had this technology, this

25:09

microwave, that allowed us to do this.

25:11

And

25:11

it hooked people. They got reality

25:14

TV as news. And

25:15

you

25:16

could draw, I think, arguably,

25:18

a very straight line from that to the way that

25:20

we cover politics, and then at the extreme

25:23

to the way that we covered Donald

25:25

Trump. And, you know,

25:25

you mentioned like, the interaction. Like, we were

25:28

watching that live and, like, couldn't look

25:30

away and also, you know, do anything about it, which

25:32

is just strange

25:32

feeling, and you were there. It

25:35

is. It was very strange. I mean, I think the

25:37

instruction is one of the

25:39

examples of how this technology can

25:41

be used for good. because we were

25:43

all watching it live. There was

25:45

no spinning it, you

25:46

know. There was no shading it

25:49

or saying, oh, you're not really seeing

25:51

what you're seeing. All of the networks carried

25:53

it at the same time, including Fox

25:55

News. To all of Fox News as viewers

25:57

saw all of what I miss Tough viewers were

25:59

saying, and all of what

25:59

ABC News viewers were saying at CBS.

26:02

Everybody saw the same exact

26:04

thing. There was no line about it. It

26:06

was all there. in front of you

26:08

happening in

26:08

real time. And so I think that's a

26:10

really good example of this technology

26:13

working for the better because you can't lie. What the

26:15

lines of events didn't come till later,

26:17

But it's

26:17

hard to rewrite what you've seen with your own eyes.

26:19

You might people do it for a time, but with these

26:22

hearings as we're seeing, I think there's

26:24

been a break in some

26:26

of that fever where people are

26:28

now acknowledging that what

26:31

happened and that Donald Trump has some

26:33

responsibility for it at least some.

26:35

But with the rallies, I think that

26:37

that's a prime example of how that

26:39

technology can be used for

26:41

bad because it wasn't good that we

26:43

aired those live

26:45

in fall night after

26:47

night after night. It just it

26:49

wasn't I

26:49

think we were addicted to this, what was going to happen

26:51

next? What was he going to say next? But I

26:53

think it was corrosive, and we didn't

26:55

realize it until later.

26:57

so was it like for you as a journalist to sort of

27:00

become part of the story during that

27:02

campaign? It was really

27:04

uncomfortable because I'm not supposed to be

27:06

a part of the story. It was never about

27:08

me. It's about what you're covering. And there was

27:10

one moment in particular, a rally

27:12

in in Mount Pleasant, South

27:14

Carolina. I was in the belly of

27:16

old warship. And Donald Trump was

27:18

holding a rally. It was the day that

27:20

he announced the Muslim

27:22

ban. And the Republicans

27:24

were like this this is not gonna stand. tanked himself.

27:26

But everybody in the crowd outside that I asked

27:28

about it was supportive of it.

27:30

And they were angry. Like, keep him

27:32

out of here, said some questionable

27:35

stuff. And so the the room

27:37

was already electric.

27:39

It already felt like it was on

27:41

the verge of exploding. And when he

27:43

came in, he just riled them up

27:45

even more. And he was angry

27:47

at me about some coverage that I did

27:50

a couple night earlier about him walking off

27:52

stage. And he

27:52

decided to use this moment after his

27:55

announced Muslim ban as his crowd

27:57

is seething with anger

27:58

and he points me out and he

27:59

calls me a little KD he yells at

28:02

me from the stage and she's back there,

28:04

look at her, and the whole room looks at me.

28:06

And I remember

28:08

in a

28:08

moment, I just, like, smiling wave, smiling

28:10

wave. Like, if they if you if they

28:12

see you scared, it will be

28:14

worse. So smile and wave.

28:16

And then when I got on TV a few

28:19

minutes later, Chris Matthews asked me

28:21

about it. And I

28:23

ignored the question because I wasn't

28:26

comfortable talking about myself. I wasn't

28:28

gonna talk about myself. It's not about me. It's not

28:30

about that moment. Even though that

28:32

moment was floating because it was,

28:34

you know, it was what everybody in the country

28:36

was watching.

28:37

And I found myself

28:39

at that point going forward confronted

28:41

with the fact that there were people out

28:43

there that would make me a part of the story because

28:45

Donald Trump was making me a part of the

28:47

story. And how do I

28:49

maintain my journalistic distance

28:51

amidsthat.

28:52

And it was it was a challenge.

28:54

You wrote a book about that campaign, unbelievable.

28:56

My front row seats, the craziest campaign

28:58

in American history. This book

29:00

sort of reconciles with a

29:02

different portion of your life and primarily your

29:05

relationship with your father. And you

29:07

sort of draw those parallels sort of between way

29:09

you've dealt with your father and the way you

29:11

dealt with Trump. Could you sort of explain that

29:13

to our listeners? So

29:14

interestingly, one of the big questions I get

29:16

on the campaign was Why

29:18

did you keep going? Why didn't you quit? Like, why did

29:20

you keep dealing with the

29:23

tax? And one of the answers was,

29:25

of course, I wasn't gonna quit. I was a

29:27

journalist the biggest story that was happening on

29:29

the planet. And two,

29:30

was because Donald Trump as

29:32

a

29:32

persona was very

29:34

familiar to me. And this

29:36

is the stuff that I didn't say in public at

29:38

the time, but my mom would text me all

29:40

the time or friends, family friends,

29:43

and

29:43

they would say, Gody so much like your father. No

29:45

wonder. Like, he doesn't know who is going up against

29:47

because you understand that personality. like

29:50

he does he's underestimated you.

29:52

And it wasn't that my dad had

29:55

the

29:55

same views as Donald Trump. My dad does not.

29:57

but

29:57

the personality type where they're

30:00

in one moment charming you

30:02

and then the next moment attacking

30:04

you was kind of the personality

30:06

that my dad had which made it

30:08

so familiar, and which would made my

30:10

childhood so hard to

30:12

contend with and what made this book on

30:14

the one end very fascinating. but

30:16

on the other to confront because

30:18

how do you

30:19

go back and look at a pass that

30:21

you have so many fond memories

30:23

of. I mean, I was just thinking this morning

30:26

about my dad teaching

30:26

me how to use a dark room. And I'm reading a

30:28

John McCarrie book and I'm using a dark room

30:30

in his spy novel. And

30:32

I remembered very fondly that my dad taught me how

30:35

to take pictures. And

30:36

it's just one of my happiest and

30:38

most cherished memories. And

30:40

how do

30:41

I hold that? And remember that and love it

30:43

so much. But

30:44

then also hold all of the

30:47

harm and the the fear

30:49

that my dad also created in

30:51

my child, but how do you do both? And

30:53

in in the book, I I try to I try

30:55

to figure it out, like, do I love my child, or

30:57

do I hate childhood? Do I love my father? Do I hate

30:59

my father? Does my father mean everything? Does my

31:02

father mean nothing? And I think the

31:04

answer is he means everything and he means nothing

31:06

all at the same time. just as a I

31:08

say he, because I'm talking about

31:10

the past, my dad in twenty thirteen, which I'm sure you're

31:12

gonna ask about transitions and

31:14

is now woman. So my dad is now a she. And so when I talk

31:16

about my dad and the president, I use she

31:19

to

31:19

be obviously respectful and supportive

31:21

of that decision. But our

31:23

relationship is is rocky, and and we really haven't

31:26

spoken much or had much of

31:27

a relationship now in fifteen

31:29

years. it almost seems

31:30

like you found a way to not become the

31:33

story but contextualize. I mean, I

31:35

I really

31:35

appreciate how open you've been about

31:38

giving

31:38

birth and having children and going back to work like

31:40

that to me reading that and you've written

31:43

about that elsewhere. I mean, it was really

31:45

really meaningful Is it weird to have people know so

31:47

much about you now when they see you on TV

31:49

every day? I don't

31:50

know. It's just a hard

31:51

question. I think that I'm still able to

31:54

compartmentalize it. you

31:56

know, I don't

31:56

know. What do you know about me? You know nothing about me?

31:59

Or you know everything about

31:59

me. Either way, it's fine.

32:01

I don't know. think the

32:02

best way to say it is, I've never been the kind of

32:05

person that would want

32:07

to not tell you everything.

32:09

I like people to know

32:12

everything.

32:12

This was the one thing that I

32:15

didn't really want people to know because I didn't

32:17

want to talk about the violence. I didn't

32:18

want to talk about the uglier stuff that I went through.

32:20

I

32:20

wanna talk about the fun crazy stories. I

32:22

didn't wanna

32:23

reckon with that. I also didn't wanna reckon with,

32:25

like, what my parents did and what it

32:27

turned

32:27

out to be for for me as a

32:29

journalist now, the the legacy of their

32:32

careers.

32:32

But when I realized that if I'm not

32:35

honest with you about who I am, how can

32:37

I expect

32:37

you to trust me?

32:40

And

32:40

so I decided

32:42

to to go to the place I didn't wanna

32:44

go to. and to reveal

32:45

it all. And is it weird that people

32:47

know everything? I guess it sort of is.

32:50

But what's the tagline for NBC, the more

32:52

you know? The more you

32:54

know. No,

32:56

that's fascinating. I know I I really

32:58

appreciate it. As a

32:59

Jewish podcaster, my eyes

33:02

occur up when I see certain things. And I have to say, I was surprised at

33:04

the

33:04

moment in this book where you reveal that you

33:06

have step children living in Israel.

33:09

I do. they're

33:10

super cool kids. They moved there

33:12

when they were pretty young.

33:14

I met Tony, my husband's

33:17

like a week before he was dropping

33:19

them off to live in Israel with their mother

33:21

because that's where she wanted to be.

33:24

So they decided to make sort

33:26

of have these situation work where they were at Israel half the

33:28

time and in America half the time.

33:31

And I had been to Israel once for

33:33

work. I thought it was a fascinating place.

33:36

and never expected that I would be going back once or

33:38

twice a year every year for the rest of my

33:40

life. And that's me now. We just got

33:42

back a couple weeks ago. My son was

33:45

Barbitsford.

33:45

And I got the pass the tour to him, which

33:47

felt very special. That's amazing. Yeah.

33:50

It was really it was amazing. What

33:52

was so beautiful about it was, you know, I grew

33:54

up in LA with these big kind of

33:56

gotti ceremonies as I as I said a

33:58

moment ago where everybody got spray paint

33:59

featured. And and this was just a really

34:02

nice intimate ceremony

34:04

and a small show in Tel Aviv.

34:06

It was probably thirty people total. And

34:08

it

34:08

was lovely. And it was just a

34:10

felt very meaningful and inclusive

34:13

which I loved. And was everyone

34:15

wearing shorts? Yes. Why is

34:17

it

34:17

so casual wear? shorts. I don't know. It's

34:19

like Miami meets Los

34:22

Angeles, meets Tell him he almost has the of

34:24

Romeo and Juliet, the the BOSS

34:28

Lerman version. kind of what it

34:29

feels like. That's actually incredible. I love

34:32

that. This was really, really fun. Thank

34:34

you for being a guest on Unorthodox

34:36

Thank you. And thank you for making me

34:39

the Jew in this episode. It's it's

34:41

your opinion on the red. Hang on. the

34:43

white. Correct. Thank

34:46

you so much. the new book is Rough Draft. I

34:48

think all of our listeners should listen to it

34:50

because they're already, you

34:51

know, they're into the into the audio. I do

34:53

I do read it in

34:55

my dulce tones. we'll bring it to

34:57

so so great chatting with you. Stephanie, thank

35:00

you so

35:02

much.

35:09

Time

35:14

for some pod

35:16

is. December eleventh is

35:19

the New York Jewish Book Festival, and

35:21

Mark and I will both be

35:23

there. He'll be talking about his book, Squirrel Hill, and

35:25

I'll be hosting a very fun happy

35:27

hour panel with authors, Sloane Crosby

35:29

and Isabel Kaplan. For more info on all

35:31

of our upcoming events, check out

35:33

tablet mag dot com slash

35:36

unorthodox live. We are hitting the

35:38

road in twenty twenty three. We are gonna

35:40

be traveling to twelve different cities and towns, spotlighting

35:42

inspiring local communities in a special

35:44

segment on an orthodox called

35:46

across the

35:48

US a. Nominate

35:50

your hometown at talbot m dot

35:52

a g slash across the USA and

35:54

we just might head your way

35:57

soon. By the way, Would it kill you

35:59

to review our podcast? Those Apple Podcast Reviews really mean a lot

36:01

and not just for our egos, they help

36:03

other podcast listeners find us and listen

36:05

to the

36:07

show. Okay. I

36:09

think that's it for podcast.

36:15

Mail

36:18

box. Gotta letter in

36:20

the mail box. Gotta letter

36:22

in the mail box. They mailbox.

36:26

To the mailbox,

36:28

I would like to have the honor

36:30

of reading two

36:32

quick notes that we

36:34

got in honor of producer Quinn Waller, and a recent installment of

36:36

her ongoing series Cook like a jut. May I do

36:38

I have your dispensationately on Stephanie to

36:40

honor Quinn with these letters? Rolfo

36:43

Way. Dear Earth maps, I'm writing because of how

36:46

much Quinn Waller's hala installment of

36:48

Cook Like Adieu resonated with me. I'm

36:50

a ripe twenty four years of age and completed

36:52

my conversion this month.

36:54

Also, not for marriage and not

36:56

too religious. Basically, everything

36:58

you, Quinn, have been grappling with, I have

37:00

too. You said something about how you don't have a Jewish mother-in-law to teach you

37:02

to cook Jewish, and that you have no visceral

37:04

reaction to the smell of hollow baking

37:06

in the oven, no childhood memories.

37:09

tied to that wonderful warm aroma. It feels

37:11

a bit like keeping an empty shelf siding

37:13

at all the family heirlooms that weren't for us

37:15

to have in this life. It's heart

37:18

wrenching and lonely. It's so

37:20

hard, Quinn, trying to find your own

37:22

community as a Jew by choice, but I'm feeling at home with the

37:24

community I found where I am. And I hope

37:26

you're having better luck in New York. And

37:28

Quinn,

37:28

I hope you finally

37:29

talked to the girl in your class.

37:31

She probably thinks about talking to you

37:33

too. I know I would. You seem like

37:35

a real friendship catch. Next

37:37

time my hall is in the oven, I'm gonna take a deep breath and

37:39

let the awe and comfort of having holler in my

37:42

oven soak in. And a big, big

37:44

thanks to the entire

37:46

unorthodox team, Shalom, Emily. No. Emily, if if it's of any

37:48

comfort to you, Mark

37:50

also has a Has no memory No.

37:52

He's so He's never refused to

37:56

be. I wasn't

37:56

gonna say I didn't grow

37:57

up I didn't grow up with hala cooking in the house, in the

37:59

baking. I

37:59

think it's true. Like, I I think that there's an interesting

38:02

way in which I think a

38:04

lot of foreign Jews, whatever we're calling ourselves.

38:06

Deal with this also. Like, I don't

38:07

do this. I didn't do that. Should I To

38:09

be fair, I had

38:11

the warm aroma of

38:14

pepperoni covered dominoes pizza. That's

38:16

Friday, Friday nights. It's

38:18

followed often by trips to Tough cinemas

38:20

on Riverdale Road to see

38:22

the latest cineplex feature, where I might also

38:24

acquire popcorn lightly buttered. So it's

38:26

not that there weren't tastes and aromas

38:28

for my childhood, but for my

38:30

English Tough as

38:32

in streamlining mass. And then we also get this

38:34

one. Hi Long time listener, first time

38:36

e mailer. I'm a recent convert in

38:39

my early thirties. who did not convert for marriage, and I'd

38:41

love to compare notes with Quinn per her comments on this week's

38:44

episode. I bring a homemade hala to

38:46

my Schul, SAJ

38:48

every week, so she can catch me at

38:50

morning services or just shoot me an email.

38:52

I really appreciated her perspective whenever it

38:54

is shared on the podcast. Thank you for

38:56

all you do. Orthrops has been a

38:58

great companion throughout my conversion

39:00

journey. Shabbat Shalom, it's a Friday morning

39:02

as I write this,

39:04

Michelle. I basically think all these really

39:06

nice listeners just wants him hala. It's a very elaborate plot.

39:08

Everyone wants to be friends with Quinn. Wow. Hong

39:10

girl. So she could bake them hala. Quinn,

39:12

you happen to

39:14

be here getting such nice

39:16

emails. Yes. I

39:17

am here. And I do have to

39:19

say that I saw those emails in

39:21

the mailbox this morning, and then I

39:23

promptly screenshotted them. and sent them to

39:26

Oh.

39:26

I feel a lot of times like the

39:27

stories that I do are kinda corny and, like,

39:30

I'm just doing all of these stories

39:32

about, like, love

39:34

and belonging and community.

39:36

Oh, okay.

39:36

You're wondering about things like

39:39

belonging and having people love

39:42

you. Religion going to a house of twenty

39:44

But it's so like, I it's

39:46

so nice. I cannot

39:46

tell you how nice it is to

39:48

get these emails. It really is

39:52

corny, but it's great. I embrace the

39:54

corn. As a Midwestern

39:56

gal, send all the corn. Queen as I said

39:57

in

39:59

my childhood after we fellowship, I I

40:02

appreciate you.

40:02

I appreciate you, Leal.

40:04

And I appreciate you, Emily and Michelle.

40:08

Thank you. Stephanie, would you read the next letter? Yes, of

40:10

course. Dior Although, I had

40:12

never heard of the actor Eric Leiden,

40:14

I have heard

40:16

of and had awful awful awfuls back in nineteen sixty seven

40:18

when camp counselors, also in the

40:20

Berkshire, is not Camp Craylock, brought them to

40:22

us on their

40:24

days off. This is well

40:26

before Eric Laden was born, so I chuckled when

40:28

he identified them. Right after this,

40:30

the name was changed to fripples. Also, I

40:32

enjoyed hearing about Mark's daughters

40:34

about Mitzvah. just wish there was a little less snark coming through in every

40:36

episode I've listened to so far. I just think we

40:38

need less snark all around and I don't

40:40

know why you need a designation of Jew of the

40:42

Week and Tough of

40:44

the Week. but I will keep listening for now to clean some interesting

40:46

information like the history of awful awful

40:48

awfuls.

40:49

Yours, Fran, Glucroff. So first

40:51

of all, friend Glucroft, your name is

40:54

unapproval. It really is. Second of all,

40:56

here's the truth about why we have Jews of the

40:58

Week and gentiles of the Week. it's it's all part

41:00

of our desperate effort to

41:02

actually

41:02

identify and talk to gentiles.

41:04

If you've

41:05

listened to the show for long, you

41:07

know, that about three quarters of their

41:09

designated gentiles of the week have turned out to be, you know, the

41:11

descendants of rabbis, the guy at their

41:13

show. They've all somehow turned out Jewish.

41:15

We're just very

41:18

curious. about gentiles. We hear there are quite a few of them in the

41:20

world. We don't know who they are or what they want, so

41:22

we're just trying to learn here. That, by the

41:24

way, is the title of my

41:25

upcoming book, gentiles.

41:28

party and whatever they want. Leal, while we have

41:30

you, could you read the next letter also

41:33

about the ice cream history

41:35

of Western Massachusetts? So

41:37

this is opening up a controversy. Mark --

41:40

Mhmm. -- says this angry email. And

41:42

awful awful is from Newport

41:44

creamery, not friendly's WTF

41:47

Marshall Sullivan clears, but Missva, best

41:50

Scott Gladstone, brandize ninety.

41:52

So this is great. First of I

41:54

love it when when our correspondents give

41:56

us their collagen year for no apparent reason.

41:58

No. Well, he's saying he'd

41:59

listen to gay crashers, and he wants

42:01

to know why he didn't mention

42:04

brand names. So is Scott Gladstone which by the way, there's

42:06

the most question to him every he writes in to

42:08

correct me. That's a strong move. When you

42:10

write in

42:12

to correct, a

42:12

host who is an internationally recognized Jewish expert, uncorrectable.

42:14

Yeah. I'd need to tell me an awful

42:16

awful awful from Newport County, not friendlies. As

42:19

it happens, Scott Gladstone. all

42:21

your intelligence and research skills that you

42:24

gleaned, being a member of the Brandeis

42:26

Class of nineteen ninety. I actually did

42:28

some research on this. I consulted

42:30

my friend hair doctor

42:32

professor Google. And he

42:34

told me that the awful awful was

42:36

produced by bonds in New Jersey, but

42:38

it was franchised out

42:40

to two Northern restaurant chains. Friendly's

42:42

out of Massachusetts also had the rights to

42:44

sell the awful awful, using the awful awful mix

42:46

produced by bonds in New Jersey

42:49

as did Newport Kramer in Rhode Island.

42:51

So the truth is Newport Kramer and

42:53

Friends were both Johnny

42:56

Kumbli leaves. they both had to acquire the rights from bonds. And

42:58

when somehow the right to keep

43:00

using the awful awful name or

43:02

special sauce, got taken

43:04

away. Friendly's rebranded, there's the

43:06

frugal. But the Newport creamery people were

43:08

no more the leaders in

43:10

awful awfulness. than the friendliest

43:12

people were. But I thank you for forcing me to

43:14

clarify this, and I

43:16

hope to see you at our next brand ice reunion. Would

43:18

you read the next letter? In regards to Mark's

43:20

story of Rowling through a stop sign and his

43:22

brief chat with an officer that resulted in

43:24

merely a warning. I was speeding home on

43:26

an unlit two lane road late one

43:29

evening. I pull over when I see flashing blue lights

43:31

in my rearview mirror. The officer approaches

43:33

my window and asks if I know how fast

43:35

I was going. He looks young enough

43:37

to be my son. No officer, please tell me.

43:39

I say? He

43:40

tells me, and the next thing out of my mouth

43:42

without thinking still astounds me as much

43:44

as it must have a surprise him,

43:46

oh, officer, that is way too fast for this road and so much

43:49

for

43:49

pulling me over. He just gave me

43:51

a warning. Thank you for an

43:53

often thought provoking podcast. Diana

43:55

Lieb, Asheville,

43:56

North Carolina. That's precious.

43:58

We are often thought provoking. I wanna

43:59

use that as like a rating. Now, we

44:01

are often

44:04

thought provoking But also, if you listen to this next voice mail, we apparently

44:06

are the receptacle the all purpose

44:08

receptacle of Jews complaints. Have

44:10

a listen.

44:11

Hello. This is Sarah Leah

44:14

Zimmerman. I live in

44:16

Sacramento and

44:18

Chicago. I'm calling with Aqeq about Steven

44:20

Spielberg's new movies, a fablement.

44:22

I don't understand why they

44:26

couldn't cast his family with Jewish actors. It's

44:28

crazy making and we think

44:30

because everyone loves

44:32

Steven Spielberg, no one

44:34

wants to say anything.

44:36

Anyway, love the podcast.

44:38

You're amazing.

44:40

Thank you. So that's

44:41

great. So basically, we're just we're just the

44:43

covet line now. Is that what it like, if if

44:45

Jews anywhere have a complaint, they just call 9145704869

44:49

just yell at us. We are the Jewish

44:51

Butterball Turkey hotline. That, by the way,

44:53

is an app that could make us a

44:55

million dollars.

44:57

Yes. Colin fetch.

44:58

It's free. They're getting the milk without even buying the

45:00

cow. We just gave them a free line to

45:02

call it out. It's part of. Alright.

45:04

Alright. We're routing the court in

45:08

the mailbox. dear

45:08

on Orthodox. Thank you so much for visiting us in

45:10

Tidy, Delaware. I drove up from Sussex

45:12

County, AKA, lower, slower,

45:14

or below the canal. and

45:17

I was tickled to discover that all three of you are as brilliant and

45:19

charming at four dimensions as you are in the ether. I get

45:21

a little anxious in windowless

45:24

rooms as soon as I heard your

45:26

voices, I felt I was among friends, love the show, long day you wave, come back anytime,

45:28

Lynn King. Lynn literally see

45:30

you, like, two

45:31

weeks from now at the

45:34

JCC. That's

45:35

all I have to say.

45:36

Oh my god. Now, we

45:37

had three people write it,

45:38

chastising Leel

45:40

for

45:42

punting on the fast food

45:44

sign that should be above the gates of

45:46

Auschwitz. Not Arby marked

45:48

Fry, but Arby's marked Fry. And three

45:51

different people rode in at Sibleyev, how

45:53

could you not take the ripe for the

45:55

plucking? I did. I said RB's

45:57

mucked fries. You did. I didn't know

45:59

Tough interesting. Several peep both Devora, and

46:02

dove, and Eva. No. All wrote in

46:04

to say, How come you didn't go for these mocks?

46:06

For sure. James, friends, do you really

46:08

think I would miss such an opportunity?

46:11

I spent ninety three percent of my

46:13

time thinking Tough fast food and holocaust

46:15

related tons. Do you really think I can go there

46:17

in my mind? Fair enough.

46:19

And finally, we leave you with this

46:21

week's finest mailbox offering.

46:24

Also on the topic of Western Massachusetts,

46:27

Please listen. Hey,

46:28

this is Joe. Wanted to give

46:30

a big shout out for this week's episode

46:33

on building bridges with Eric Layton, in

46:35

particular, listening on the train, going down to work

46:37

like I usually do on Thursday

46:39

morning. And his interview just kept getting

46:41

better and better Stephanie

46:44

had remarked and then he

46:46

mentioned going to summer camp in the

46:48

Berkshire's in Massachusetts.

46:51

And although I am sixty, and he I believe that he's forty

46:53

four, so I was there years before him.

46:55

I went to a rival

46:58

camp called Winninu, which was on

47:00

Lake Anota, Tough we used

47:02

to be big rivals with Camp

47:04

Greylock where he went. And I was

47:06

just smiling year to

47:08

year and thought it was fantastic.

47:10

You guys are great. We look forward

47:12

to you coming back to our area

47:14

soon and just keep doing

47:16

all the diverse things and arguing the way

47:18

you do and having different opinions

47:20

because it's so valuable. So

47:22

it was great interview. Thanks

47:24

a lot and congratulations and

47:27

marvelous Tough to the new button that's in March

47:30

Family. Friends, we

47:30

love nothing more than getting your mail in voice

47:32

mails. Right to us at talbot manning dot com

47:34

or call us at 9145704869

47:37

Are

47:39

the boy's cuter when do our

47:41

GreyLock? Way in.

47:46

Douglas

47:49

Century is a writer and

47:51

tablet contributor who joins us to

47:53

talk about tough Jews, specifically the ones in

47:55

his recent book, The Last Foss of

47:58

Brighton, Boris Bibanifeld, and

47:59

the Rise

48:00

of the Russian mob in America.

48:05

tablet

48:08

contributing editor Douglas Sentry. Thank

48:08

you for being our joy of the

48:11

week. Enjoy the week. God is a huge honor. Thank

48:13

you so much. Well, I'm I'm glad you recognize

48:15

what a huge honor it is. Before we

48:17

talk about your extraordinary journalism and your

48:19

work on organized crime on

48:21

Jewish mobsters, on narcot

48:24

trafficking, I have to

48:25

ask, Douglas

48:26

Sentry, real

48:28

name, penn name, fake name. Oh my god. It's a real name. Going

48:30

back to Warsaw seventeen nineties,

48:32

we have Simkhla century and then

48:35

Baruque Century, but it was

48:38

pronounced Centuria. It was spelled century. It might come from

48:40

the Roman legions. But no, it's real

48:42

name. Came through Ellis Island. Never changed.

48:44

So your book is the last

48:46

boss of Brighton, Boris, Bibi Neifel, and the Rise of

48:49

the Russian mob in America. For listeners

48:51

who aren't familiar, can

48:54

you explain who Boris Nefeld is and his role in Russian

48:56

mob. So Boris Nefeld, he

48:58

was notorious

49:01

and

49:01

still is. feared gangster in Brighton Beach, but

49:03

he came from really humble origins. He was born

49:06

in a small Jewish family

49:08

from Gomal, which is a small

49:10

place in now

49:12

Belarus, but it was the Belarusian Republic. A Jewish home,

49:14

his mother abandoned him at

49:16

age three, because his father was

49:18

in the gulag for black marketeering. his

49:21

bubba raised him because the mother just couldn't

49:24

wait around that she wouldn't married another

49:26

man. So he

49:26

quickly got into crime. In

49:29

in the USSR, it was

49:31

called hologums, like hologums. Vladimir

49:33

Putin was one as well. These were street

49:35

gangs, no guns, but they used to have night

49:37

fights. Quickly, he got into the black market

49:39

after doing three years in a zone, which

49:41

is a work camp. He came out, you

49:43

couldn't get

49:44

a good job once you had a prison

49:46

record. He's to go to dead

49:48

souls, and he was making hundreds

49:50

of thousands of dollars.

49:54

Well, in in rubles. And flashing it, like

49:56

wearing a fancy fur, he had a Tough made

49:58

up, which you couldn't buy. You know,

50:00

that was known. Guys were

50:02

ripping off

50:04

the state, but the crime was theft from the state in a excessive

50:06

amount, ten thousand rubles, and he was

50:08

dealing like hundreds of thousands of rubles,

50:10

was a firing squad. So

50:12

under the threat of the firing squad, he was constantly being shaken down by the cops.

50:15

You Tough have to give them cognac and

50:17

chocolate. As soon as

50:20

I think by seventy nine, got application Bubba

50:22

Riva had relatives in

50:24

Israel, so they did

50:27

have a connection. and the whole family got out and he always

50:29

said I just narrowly escaped getting the death penalty. Some of his

50:32

friends who were in the crime world were

50:34

shot by the firing squads, got out,

50:36

came to

50:38

America, he quickly rose up. At that time, the boss

50:40

was a Jewish guy named Yves

50:42

Eagron. Amazing interesting figure

50:46

he was Lennongrad University graduate, but he

50:48

was the boss in Brighton

50:49

Beach with Boris became his protector Tough

50:51

of his muscle.

50:54

You'd say it was murdered in nineteen eighty five in the Orchard

50:57

Parkway unsolved to this day. And Boris kinda stepped up them. And

50:59

within a few years, I don't know how

51:01

he went from extreme poverty. Tough it's

51:05

really rags to rags to riches in the worst sense the

51:07

worst. One of the biggest heroin traffickers in the history

51:09

of the United States, DEA busted him

51:11

in ninety four. money laundering.

51:14

God, he has four American convictions.

51:16

He was convicted even in old

51:18

age at age sixty seven for a crazy

51:20

murder for hire. A Jewish

51:22

guy wouldn't divorce

51:24

his wife. And the dad comes to

51:26

Boris Paltic and says, I want to This

51:29

is a Soprano's potline, isn't it? It's

51:31

all this the first episode. You'll you can

51:33

see a picture. Yes. Picture of Boris with all

51:35

this tattoos in night this is, like, in two

51:37

thousand eighteen. It says, scary

51:40

geyser hitman. So Boris came out of

51:42

prison. He has no money. This guy puts it comes

51:44

and says, I want you to whack my

51:46

son-in-law. He won't give my daughter

51:48

a divorce. He's abusive and all that. And the guy

51:50

was worth He's a shipping magnet. I mean, I'm not making this up. It's all in the

51:52

book. So the guy,

51:54

he clawed his way to the top of the

51:56

rack. It's and

51:58

made of bad fortune and now has none of

52:00

it because, you know, one thing people don't

52:02

realize, gangsters never saved their

52:04

money because once the feds get you, you gotta prove

52:06

that you have some kind

52:08

of w two. So you're you're a

52:10

Bentley, you're a Bentley, you're

52:12

Villa, everything gone. So now

52:14

he's a pensioner. I am

52:15

truly intrigued by the Russian mob in

52:18

America because we have these

52:20

myths in the United States anyway that in the

52:22

twenties and thirties. when not every Jewish boy could get into medical school or

52:24

dentistry or accounting school or whatever. A

52:26

few of them, like, they had to go and become

52:28

mobsters. They had no

52:30

other choice. But of course,

52:32

according to our midst, that's a thing of the

52:34

past. And then quietly

52:36

quietly we whisper except now

52:37

these Russians, these Russian

52:39

Jews are real street Jews. Okay. So first of

52:41

all, would you explain for me the Russian mob?

52:44

And and how is it like the Italian

52:46

mob? Where there's kind of this cultural defense

52:48

of it? from

52:50

within the community as a noble profession or people

52:52

who are defending their own. Right? It's

52:54

like Meadows O'Pranos said, you know, there weren't

52:57

opportunities in the Lavan. so

52:59

they had to go into, you know, being

53:01

mobsters. Is there this kind of

53:03

intercultural defense in the Russian community? Do

53:05

they stick up for their mobsters in the

53:07

way that at least according to Italians stick up for their

53:10

mobsters. Or or do they have a

53:12

sense

53:12

of shame?

53:14

tell

53:14

me, what's what's the whispers in Brighton Beach and Kony Island in

53:17

places like that? Okay. Well, it

53:18

wasn't a sense

53:19

of shame because in

53:21

the Soviet times, you got a picture

53:23

where these guys were shaped, borys, and guys like that. A lot of them got university

53:26

educations. So this made for a very

53:28

dangerous combination. You

53:30

go to a gulag type work camp, which Boris did for three

53:32

years. You've got a university education, come

53:34

to America, so you're at a

53:38

university educated fresh off the boat, greenhorn

53:40

killer, like these guys are very dangerous. But as the Soviet Union

53:42

collapsed in the Brezhneb era, everybody

53:44

was stealing from the state, everybody

53:48

was hustling. The highest level of it went up to

53:50

the broad strokes. Like, there's a

53:52

joke from the Soviet times. You're not stealing from your

53:54

job. What's wrong

53:56

with you? So when this book started, it

53:58

came to me actually as a pitch like

53:59

this is once upon a time in America, but

54:02

it's in

54:04

the eighties. What

54:04

happened is you were absolutely right. Jews never second generation

54:06

of of gangsters. Myerlansky sends his son

54:09

to West Point. Left key bookalter I

54:12

read about this at the end of got to electric Lewis Lev Keppel

54:14

Calder, head of murder, Incorporated, actually set up

54:16

all the records in the garment center. His

54:19

brother was a dentist,

54:21

his other brother. He had another brother who was

54:23

a famous rabbi. So Jews tended

54:26

to be the Jewish counterparties tended to be the one black

54:28

sheep kid in his family. And that's also

54:30

true of Boris. These guys came over if

54:32

you recall in the seventies. The Soviets

54:34

started to let Jews out as part

54:36

of family

54:38

reunification There's some evidence now that the KGB intentionally

54:40

let out those Jews who had criminal

54:42

records. So you got a cohort

54:46

Brighton Beach, I think by the, let's say, nineteen eighty five was

54:48

about forty thousand strong of Russian

54:50

speakers. Maybe five hundred, what

54:53

they call professional criminals. So

54:55

it's not a huge percentage of that

54:57

very lovely community where you can still go

54:59

to crazy supper clubs and and see the

55:01

floor shows that are Right. But it's not nothing. It's not

55:03

nothing. And they they really had a crazy murder

55:05

wave in the eighties and nineties.

55:08

And the American cops did

55:10

not know the FBI,

55:13

DEA, NYPD, no American cops knew how

55:15

to deal with these guys because first of

55:17

all, as some NYPD

55:19

detective told me, where the Russians are different from the tenants.

55:21

They'll kill your whole family. If somebody talks, they'll kill your whole family. They'll kill your

55:23

wife. Yeah. They were known as being really,

55:26

really ruthless. And the other thing that

55:28

really gave them a lot of power, like Boris did three

55:30

years in a zone, which is a work

55:32

zone. And he said, they barely gave

55:34

enough enough calories

55:36

to eat. we're worried about freezing to death. They would march five

55:38

kilometers and forty below to to work on

55:40

it. He said, I went to MCC and

55:42

these Americans.

55:44

It's like, You said, it's hell versus paradise. Like, we would

55:46

worry about how many calories are in this

55:48

you know, how many grams of sugar are we

55:50

getting? And in American prison, it

55:52

was who controls the remote control to the colored TV.

55:54

Oh, wait. We're gonna play Batcheball or

55:56

we're gonna have yoga class. It's

55:58

a joke, but it's not untrue

56:01

that they're not afraid of American prison. They

56:03

actually didn't care. So

56:05

that gave them a I always tell

56:07

this about crime interviews. The guy

56:09

who has the most power is the guy who

56:11

is not afraid of prison and has nothing

56:13

to lose. So, comparing them

56:15

to the Italian mob is a diff it's a

56:17

difficult thing because They are like the

56:19

Italian mob was in the time of lucky Luciano in the early days. The Italian

56:21

mob now, the Russians thinks they're soft. They

56:24

really do. Hey, they got kids in

56:26

college, they

56:28

Look at Tony Soprano. He had money launderers. And if

56:30

everybody remembers the

56:31

the pine barrens episode, they

56:33

were terrified of this Russian guy.

56:35

He was special forces That's

56:38

not untrue. They are

56:40

not afraid of the Italian mob at

56:42

all. They will go to war with them. They they tended to Who

56:44

are they afraid of? who's like

56:45

who who are about the Russian mobsters

56:48

think like, oh, yeah.

56:50

Who does they think like, oh, shit. They've called

56:52

in the the Hungarians, the the yakuza.

56:55

Like, who are they scared of? Well, right now,

56:57

I mean, you don't wanna piss off Putin,

56:59

honestly. Like, it goes up to the top.

57:01

But people are always asking me, is it like the Italian

57:03

mob? You know, people watched Michael Francesca,

57:05

and Michael Francesca, who was very nice to give me a

57:07

blurb because he made hundreds of millions of dollars working

57:10

with Russian Jews. this infamous

57:12

gasoline. So to be clear, are those Russian

57:14

mobsters? Are they all Jews? The ones I'm

57:16

writing about you. A couple came over

57:18

later who were not,

57:19

but maybe the only Russians who were getting out in the seventies in the

57:21

eighties, it was a policy of family

57:23

reunification. You had to have a family

57:25

member in Israel. sometimes

57:28

it was fictitious letters. So that you

57:30

get the whole family out, usually get to

57:32

Vienna, then they get to Rome, and they

57:34

would start, oh, you could change your your

57:36

app occasion to the US, Canada, Australia. Some

57:39

did go to Israel. Yeah. So the first wave

57:41

-- Yeah. -- they were all Jews -- or, you know, the

57:43

thing is, did they really understand their Jewishness

57:45

because it was kind of prohibited in the Soviet times. So a

57:47

lot of them didn't have much identity as far as

57:49

And are they bringing their kids into the business? Or

57:51

are they like the Jews of

57:53

seventy five, a hundred years ago, where the kids are gonna

57:55

be orthodontists. A couple of the kids tried

57:57

to, like, step up, but they're

57:59

they're

57:59

soft. Because In the case

58:01

of a guy like Boris, he made enough money

58:03

to have a house on Staten Island. People don't

58:05

know. That's mob central. He was like, he lived

58:08

surrounded by all the Italian guy gangsters.

58:10

So his his children are growing up

58:12

in afterwards. So it's just the it's not more complicated than

58:14

the level of hunger. You know, Boris,

58:17

to this day speak English properly or good English.

58:20

And you can live in Brighton

58:22

Beach to this day, older

58:24

people, not speaking a word

58:26

of English. You can do your shopping. You read your news. You can listen to the radio.

58:28

And there's a joke. A young Jewish kid

58:30

says to his data. Say that, why don't when are you gonna

58:32

learn English? He goes, in Brighton Beach, who would

58:34

understand me?

58:36

Like, it's all Russians. So it's not that they didn't

58:38

have the opportunities. Boris tried to drive a taxi.

58:40

He got someone to take the test for him

58:42

because It's a hilarious scene. He's

58:44

driving a cab like all these references said, he

58:46

couldn't read English. He'd get these airport jobs. He

58:48

was just following the little sign that looks like

58:50

an airport. He took one guy was asking him to go to the

58:53

Bronx, so he ends up taking him the Long Island and

58:55

the guy's screaming at him. So he ended up

58:57

lasting driving a taxi for, like, five days.

58:59

And then they got into crime because either you went

59:01

to school and tried to better yourself and

59:03

learn how to fit into American

59:05

society. But if you didn't have the patience

59:07

to do that, And a

59:08

lot of criminal minded people, they're very brilliant, but

59:10

they're extremely impulsive. They don't

59:13

have the delayed gratification. Tough sense

59:16

of waiting five years to make it.

59:18

Boris said one thing in the book

59:20

that was crazy. The the Jewish community of Albany

59:22

welcomed them with open arms.

59:24

And for about three months, they had free food, they had the

59:26

JCC to go swimming, and they

59:28

joked, you know, free food.

59:30

We don't

59:31

have to work. This

59:33

is the communism we were always promised.

59:35

Right? But

59:36

after three months, they said Boris,

59:38

you gotta go to work. And the job they gave

59:40

him was going to work at midnight at

59:42

a doctor's office. and sweeping up and cleaning the

59:44

toilets. And this guy had been making the

59:46

equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars

59:48

illegally in the black market. And he

59:50

said for a guy like me, They ain't

59:53

a toilet? I don't think so. So he went to Brighton Beach, got a thirty eight

59:55

caliber, and went to work during other kinds

59:57

of jobs, you know? So That's

59:59

the story

59:59

of a lot of these guys. It's the impatience. I need

1:00:02

it now. I wanna make money now the

1:00:04

American way. So I got into podcasting.

1:00:06

I always feel like, you know, I look,

1:00:08

I've interviewed you know, nazis and

1:00:10

white nationalists, and I I sit with

1:00:12

them, I break bread, and and I try

1:00:14

to see them as human. I try to I try to remember

1:00:16

everyone with somebody's baby one cradle in their mother's

1:00:18

arms. Everyone had potential. Right? But,

1:00:20

you know, with certain kinds of stories,

1:00:22

I do end up with a revulsion.

1:00:24

And yet, People who write about the mob often end up with a grudging

1:00:26

admiration. Where do you

1:00:27

fall

1:00:28

on that? Well, I

1:00:29

try very hard

1:00:30

in this book to show Boris for what he is,

1:00:33

which is sociopathic personality. I mean,

1:00:35

somebody read my book and said, this should be

1:00:37

in psychology courses. I don't have

1:00:39

an admiration for the criminal behavior,

1:00:41

which was basically extorting,

1:00:44

collecting from other Jews, herding

1:00:46

other Jews. But there were few scenes

1:00:48

in the book, antisemitism

1:00:50

was rampant. and was very

1:00:52

open in his era. And he's a tough guy. He's

1:00:54

a really he's one of the scariest guys I've

1:00:56

done. He had a crew and he goes

1:00:58

gets a mug and dog and made up. when you couldn't get

1:01:00

them, you couldn't buy them. So he goes to a

1:01:02

jeweler and he has it made up because you couldn't

1:01:04

purchase them. And he said, and I wore

1:01:06

it over

1:01:08

my turtleneck. mean, that was the thing to say. And I I showed it to a few Russians. There's a

1:01:10

photo in the book, and they said, yeah, that took some balls

1:01:12

to do that back then. But he has a great line. There

1:01:14

was a scene in the book where I really did have

1:01:16

some admiration. the proper word

1:01:18

for a Jew in in Russian

1:01:20

is And the slur is

1:01:22

Jid, the Polish word. And there's a

1:01:24

there's a phrase, Jidov, Skype, more that

1:01:26

you have kikes mug.

1:01:28

It's horrible. And he said, you know what? If anybody said

1:01:30

that to one of my friends, I would go beat him straight

1:01:32

away. Like, any if you heard any

1:01:34

antisemitism, I would fight. So in that

1:01:36

context, you have to kind of go, oh, I like those

1:01:38

kind of guys that stand up for their friends in

1:01:40

it. But, you know, at the end of

1:01:42

the book, I am very, very conflicted

1:01:44

about like Tough he had

1:01:45

no options. Right.

1:01:46

But I'll give you a little plot, spoiler.

1:01:48

He has a brother who's

1:01:51

eleven months his senior who came to America,

1:01:53

worked an honest job, never convicted of

1:01:55

any crime, never even associated, and is

1:01:58

a happy retirement of Staten and I say,

1:02:00

guys have the same DNA. You have the

1:02:01

same experiences almost. I

1:02:04

mean, why could your brother

1:02:06

go the path of

1:02:08

hard work paying his his taxes to and you needed it

1:02:10

now. And I think I have a friend that read the

1:02:12

book said, oh, god. There's gotta be a

1:02:14

genetic component.

1:02:16

you know, there's a gene almost for some of these guys because

1:02:18

they're just so easy to

1:02:20

anger and pulse of narcissistic and

1:02:24

Anyway, nature versus nature. I don't come down on the side of admiration. I come

1:02:26

down on the side of fascination. I love that

1:02:28

you basically said to him, why

1:02:29

can't you be more like your brother? I

1:02:32

did.

1:02:32

Wonderful.

1:02:34

And so is there a

1:02:35

Russian mob today? Is it still Jewish? Is it

1:02:37

the same? Like, what are we looking at? And

1:02:39

how scary looking at how scary

1:02:41

is it? we're looking at. It's not big and bright beach anymore

1:02:43

because guess what? A lot of those guys, as soon as

1:02:46

communism fell, they saw the opportunities to

1:02:48

go back. The Russian mob

1:02:50

now is essentially

1:02:52

government. I mean, a lot of the guys,

1:02:54

I don't wanna give away too much, but Putin

1:02:56

has a lot of guys in his inner

1:02:58

circle who are Jewish, oligarchs,

1:03:00

gangster oligarchs, an

1:03:02

expose of probably the

1:03:04

biggest theft in history they call

1:03:06

it. Putin made a one point four billion

1:03:08

dollar palace on the Black Sea, and

1:03:10

Navalny exposed it. big

1:03:12

critic. Well, it's the biggest residence

1:03:14

in the history of the world. It has its own

1:03:16

Helipat and it well, there's two

1:03:18

Jewish brothers They're oligarchs.

1:03:20

But I call them oligarch gangsters. Arkadi,

1:03:22

Rottenberg, and Boris Rottenberg. They

1:03:24

were pseudo buddies Putin as kids, and

1:03:26

they our Cuddy Rottenburger after the hue and cry comes and says, that Palace is mine.

1:03:28

I said, well, that's convenient. Now one thing about

1:03:30

Putin. He has a lot of Jewish oligarch

1:03:32

friends. He's not an anti sema.

1:03:36

he's a crooked guy war crimes

1:03:38

right now. But many of

1:03:41

those oligarch, Jewish guys, Again,

1:03:43

this is a Shanda for the go ahead. I hate to say some

1:03:45

of this stuff out Tough neo Nazis will jump

1:03:48

on. Many of those OLED barks

1:03:50

are Jewish. And a lot of that criminal element that prospered America

1:03:52

went back legitimized in

1:03:55

the former USSR. Well,

1:03:57

you know what they say? If you can make it here, you can make

1:03:59

it

1:03:59

anywhere. If you

1:04:02

make it in New York, why not go take

1:04:04

Moscow and Kiev. Right? I would

1:04:06

argue that the crime that we

1:04:08

saw as

1:04:08

a kind of subculture in America

1:04:11

and Russia is now normalized and it

1:04:13

is the government of Russia.

1:04:14

Russia is now a functionally

1:04:17

criminal state in many ways. There's

1:04:19

this phrase Shonda for the

1:04:21

go. I'm right Jews behaving badly is something that, like,

1:04:23

really excel a lot us out. What do we do with

1:04:26

this? With this very real history of

1:04:28

Jewish mobsters,

1:04:30

Jewish gangsters, bad

1:04:31

Jews basically. Oh, how do you sort of square that

1:04:33

away with this idea that, like, we want to be

1:04:35

good people? Well, I

1:04:36

think we accept that we have good and bad, and

1:04:38

I mean, what are we gonna I mean, do we ignore the burning

1:04:40

made offs of the world and the Epstein? Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. I mean, are that does

1:04:43

that not a Shanda for the globe? I mean, you know, we see those and

1:04:45

we just I don't wanna hear this.

1:04:48

But what do we do with it?

1:04:50

We accept that

1:04:50

we're Italian culture is not mafia. That's a

1:04:52

small

1:04:53

subset. The Jewish

1:04:56

culture I did that with your compared to Leo, I did a series for tablet

1:04:58

about the Israeli Bob. They're whacking

1:05:00

each other left. There's Bizrahi families that

1:05:03

tend to be It's a reality

1:05:05

for us. We have doctors, lawyers, Nobel Prize winners, we have

1:05:08

gangsters, we have horrible people

1:05:10

like Epstein, Why

1:05:12

are Jews different from any other culture that we we shouldn't did

1:05:14

the black community say, oh, no. Bill Cosby,

1:05:17

we can't accept that. He he

1:05:19

was both things. He was America's dad and then he turned out

1:05:21

to be a creep. Human beings are

1:05:23

not simple. Boris is capable

1:05:25

of good things even though I think

1:05:27

he's a narcissist exociopathic person. And for me, the idea that

1:05:29

we have a Shanda for the poem, I get it.

1:05:32

We don't Tough fuel

1:05:34

into negative stereotypes,

1:05:36

but I would rather in a

1:05:38

sense this is gonna sound horrible. I'd rather hear

1:05:40

about a Jewish gangster a burning

1:05:42

maitre off. because Brady made off to me is like,

1:05:44

that's the worst thing I think of a Jew. Oh, he's

1:05:46

just a goner. He just took everybody's money

1:05:49

in a ponzi scheme. when I hear about

1:05:51

these Jews doing, okay, you gotta pay us protection or else shaking down. I

1:05:53

mean, that's what the Armenians did. That's what

1:05:55

the Irish did. And it just shows that

1:05:57

we're an ethnic group

1:05:59

like

1:05:59

any other. I will say what's

1:06:02

really amazing for me about

1:06:04

Jewish organized crime is that I can't

1:06:06

find an example of somebody who wanted his son to

1:06:08

go into it. Italian, and I'm not to insult them, but Michael Friend says

1:06:10

he had a his dad was a Sony friend says he

1:06:12

goes John Gotti had his son, John

1:06:14

Junior, who was never cut up cut up to be

1:06:16

a mobster. Italian

1:06:18

didn't mind making their son's criminals. Jews never

1:06:20

wanted that for them. They never did. They

1:06:22

always wanted their kids to get out. I'm doing

1:06:24

this because I had to don't be

1:06:28

like, I mean, no, I hate to say it. I can't think of a Jewish

1:06:30

organized crime figure whose son followed him into

1:06:32

the family business. You know, it really

1:06:34

wasn't true. So in that level,

1:06:37

But the standard for the go aim, I

1:06:39

think, is something we have to accept. When I write

1:06:41

bad things about you, organized crime, and I'm I'm

1:06:43

sure it's two of my friend, Rich Cohen. it gets

1:06:45

picked up by neo Nazi websites. And

1:06:47

see, even the Jews admit that the

1:06:49

best criminals, you know? And I just

1:06:51

think it makes us an interesting

1:06:53

diverse community that we're not all Yeshiva bookers, we're not

1:06:56

all Debites, we're not

1:06:58

all bookish, Same

1:07:00

way, I wrote a book about Barney Ross, a Jewish boxer.

1:07:02

Well, people joke and say, oh, no. You mean, there's Jewish

1:07:05

boxes, Matsabole Levine. No. A

1:07:07

third of the boxers in the nineteen twenties and thirties were

1:07:09

choos and some of the best boxers, Benny Leonard, is

1:07:12

still considered one of the greatest lightweights,

1:07:14

probably the greatest light Tough of all time next to

1:07:16

Roberto Duran, and So why

1:07:18

are we not capable of being

1:07:21

you know, as well as

1:07:23

Nobel Prize laureates? We're all we're all things. I mean, we can do it

1:07:25

all. Doesn't that make Jewish people even more interesting? I

1:07:28

love that. Making Jewish

1:07:28

people more interesting. This book

1:07:31

certainly does the last boss of

1:07:33

brightening Boris, Viva Nafald, and the rise of Russian mob in America

1:07:35

Douglas Sentry, thank you for being our tough Jew

1:07:37

of the Week.

1:07:40

up

1:07:42

to of

1:07:45

the week.

1:07:48

Mosoltov's,

1:07:49

I would like to offer a Mosoltov that that I think L'Oreal and Stephanie

1:07:51

will buy into as well. Y'all give the Mosoltov, you

1:07:53

can tell me if I may offer

1:07:55

it on your behalf. and

1:07:57

it is to our colleague Tanya

1:08:00

Singer whose title I still don't know. Field

1:08:02

commander. Somehow, she's basically

1:08:05

coming in to make us be our best selves. And we've had

1:08:07

a few meetings lately where she

1:08:09

has simply made everyone

1:08:11

smarter, gotten us to

1:08:14

resolutions faster, made us want a fellowship with each other even more. She's our Jew of the week,

1:08:16

but if she weren't Jew, she'd be our

1:08:18

gentile every week. And so just a huge

1:08:22

a huge shout out, a mazzled top two, Tanya

1:08:24

Singer. Leon Stephanie, would you join me in

1:08:26

that one? Yeah. How about that? Louisa. And

1:08:28

and in in her honor, we are now going

1:08:30

to play the song that Wilford ever known theme song.

1:08:32

She's also the woman who,

1:08:33

if you wanna book us for a

1:08:35

live show,

1:08:37

you email her at t singer at tablet mag dot com and

1:08:40

somehow

1:08:43

it just happens.

1:08:47

On North American production of

1:08:48

tablet studios, the show was hosted by me. Mark

1:08:50

Oppenheimer with Stephanie Butnik from the Ellevoits were produced

1:08:52

and edited by Josh Cross, Robert Scrumucha, Quinn

1:08:54

Waller and Ellie Blair. Our team includes

1:08:57

a party feeds the Tanya singer singer, father-in-law, and Sam Hacker, please follow

1:08:59

us on Twitter, Instagram, and or Facebook. Get our brand new swag. I actually I

1:09:02

I wear it often now. It's

1:09:04

such good looking

1:09:06

swag at tablet studios dot com. Episode artists by Esther Wordaker, our theme is by Gola, Mailboxing is Steve

1:09:08

Barton. Robotic supervision, suite

1:09:11

by rabbi Adam Baldichim. He's

1:09:15

at Sherry TikTok in Skarsdale, New York, and he was nominated by our

1:09:17

own Tanya Singer. We'd come to you from

1:09:19

tablet studios,

1:09:24

Shalom friends.