0:01

Welcome to Unpacked Podcasts

0:03

with your host leadership consultant

0:05

, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies

0:07

and Consulting . Ron's delighted to

0:09

have you join us as he unpacks and

0:11

shares his leadership experience , designed

0:14

to help you in your leadership

0:16

journey . Ron believes that leadership

0:18

is the fundamental driver towards making

0:20

a difference . So now to find

0:22

out more of what it means to unpack

0:25

leadership , here's your host , ron

0:27

Harvey .

0:28

Good afternoon . This is Ron Harvey , vice

0:30

President , the Chief Operating Officer of Global

0:32

Core Strategies and Consulting , excited

0:34

to be here once again . Fortunate

0:36

enough to run a company with my wife , we're

0:38

in a leadership development program out of Columbia , south Carolina

0:40

, and our sole purpose is really

0:43

helping leaders become the leader they need to be to

0:45

take care of the people that they're responsible for

0:47

and responsible to . Both of us have a military

0:50

background and we know how invaluable

0:52

leadership was for us to be successful in

0:54

the role we play . So we built the whole company off of that

0:56

. So we love doing it , we're passionate about

0:58

it and it's what we get to do every

1:00

single day is helping leaders be

1:03

their best version of themselves . But

1:05

I pause on every single day to do

1:07

a podcast , and this podcast

1:09

is really called Unpacked with Ron Harvey , where

1:12

we really bring leaders from across the world

1:14

to talk about their experiences and best

1:16

practices and things they're learning and things they've done

1:18

and the mistakes that they've made before

1:20

they became as good as they are . So we're really

1:23

transparent . You get to go behind

1:25

the curtain with us in real time . I

1:27

don't know the questions I'm going to ask , I don't know

1:29

the answers that I'm going to get and our guests

1:31

have , like , gracially said yes to that

1:33

. So they're pretty brave to come on here

1:35

without knowing any of the questions , but I'm pretty

1:37

open to listening to their answers and their

1:39

responses . So sit back , enjoy it

1:41

. I'm super excited about our guests . I have

1:44

his bio , but no . Dr

1:46

Sinclair . Thank you for saying yes , thank

1:48

you for coming on and spending time . You're on the West

1:50

Coast , but I want to ask you to introduce

1:52

yourself and share with the audience who you are before

1:55

we dive into the podcast portion of it .

1:57

Sure , yeah , my name is Jared Sinclair . I'm

2:00

a doctor of education and organizational change and leadership . I'm

2:02

a former veteran . I'm a small

2:04

business owner . I have a couple of business lines

2:06

that I utilize . Much like you , I'm in the leadership

2:09

space . I call it capacity building

2:11

space because we go beyond the leadership we look in the business

2:13

financials system , stuff of

2:15

that nature we can talk about a little later

2:17

. But I have another business line in the dental

2:20

space . But I just want to help people . I

2:22

enjoy getting people organized

2:24

and systems organized to get them to

2:26

a point where they can perform

2:28

at a higher level . So whether it's a

2:31

small business , large business , doesn't matter

2:33

. I'm here to add value , so I'm excited to get started

2:35

. Thanks for having me on the show . I don't know

2:37

where we're going either , but I'm excited to find

2:39

out . Yeah .

2:42

And I think we attract people on this

2:44

podcast that actually want to make a difference , that

2:46

want to add value . So thank you for that and

2:48

thank you for your service and what you're doing out on the West

2:50

Coast after your military service . I

2:52

have a really soft heart for veterans , so thank you for that . So

2:55

, as we dive in and you think about leadership

2:58

and you think about what you've done , you learn a lot in uniform

3:00

, but now you're out and you're doing a lot of capacity

3:02

building . I'll use the language . I'm kind

3:04

of different between you know it gets beyond leadership

3:07

to capacity building . What do you mean by that ?

3:09

Sure . So when we talk about capacity

3:12

, what I really focus on is margin . So

3:14

we have this point where we're at

3:16

, we can do certain things with our own

3:18

skills , with the team that we

3:20

have and maybe in the context that we're in

3:22

. But with that margin , capacity

3:25

is that outer edge right Of where

3:28

we're at and where we can be . I know there's some models

3:30

that revolve around these concentric circles and whatnot

3:32

. But , that being said

3:34

, capacity is that

3:36

outer edge of what you are totally capable

3:39

of , what the organization is capable of

3:41

, the team is capable of , what skill sets

3:43

are present . And what we try to

3:45

do is we try to situate

3:47

things not only on the individual , the team

3:49

or the organizational level , but

3:52

perhaps through finance , culture , systems

3:54

, to push that outer circle

3:56

out a little more . And in doing

3:58

so we're able to build

4:01

more margin and kind of push that internal

4:04

capabilities out . But that

4:06

margin is important because margin absorbs

4:08

the surprises , it

4:10

absorbs the last minute oh , by the way

4:12

, we need this or market fluctuations

4:14

or whatever the case may be . So when

4:17

we talk about capacity building , that's

4:19

it . It's different from leadership , because

4:21

leadership is simply I

4:24

don't want to simplify because it's incredibly complex

4:26

but what

4:28

it simply is is getting people to do the

4:30

things that we need them to do and influencing

4:32

them towards that goal . So there's

4:35

a million different ways to do that , but

4:37

that is the difference to me . Capacity is that total

4:40

. All in this is what we could do at our maximum

4:42

. We want to maintain that margin . This

4:44

is where we currently are , and then getting people to

4:46

do the things that we want to do is the way that I

4:48

see leadership .

4:50

Wow . So when you think of capacity

4:52

and you think of leadership and

4:54

putting them together , I totally agree . You know

4:56

the difference between the two . How

4:59

do you help people get past

5:01

this mental self-limiting

5:04

beliefs so they can get to that what

5:06

you're discussing , Because sometimes the stories

5:08

we tell ourselves are the biggest blockage

5:11

of getting to that capacity that

5:13

helps people get past that ?

5:14

Yeah , so those narratives are important

5:16

. I think there's a lot of things that play

5:18

into , you know , leadership

5:21

and our view of ourselves and what we're capable

5:23

of , and I think the biggest thing is motivation . So

5:26

when you look at motivation there's a couple

5:28

underpinning kind of theories

5:30

or , I guess , bricks in that

5:32

wall or in that foundation , and

5:34

some of those include , you know , self-efficacy

5:37

, what we believe we're good at

5:39

and what we can perform , and there's a component

5:41

of agency that we believe we can control the

5:43

world around us right . So

5:45

you can see how culture or organizational structure

5:47

can play into those things as well

5:49

as knowledge . So if

5:52

somebody doesn't have the requisite skill

5:54

sets to do a certain task or the requisite

5:56

awareness to do a certain task or

5:58

to see things through a certain light , when

6:02

they're given the opportunity to do that

6:04

and make connections or build those

6:06

skills , it increases

6:08

their confidence . If you will . I don't wanna

6:10

overlay confidence on self-efficacy

6:12

because they're two different things but they're similar . So

6:15

with that improved confidence

6:17

comes one's belief that they can

6:20

do better . And there's this whole line of research

6:22

and it's positive psychology that if

6:24

you overlay or you have these things

6:26

occurring in a positive environment , it

6:29

actually expands somebody's thought repertoire

6:31

so they can see a little more beyond

6:33

this kind of myopic . They've

6:36

got the blinders on , they can't see , and

6:38

they're able to make connections on a broader level

6:40

. So I would say

6:43

getting those little wins is very important . So

6:45

if you're kind of struggling , one

6:47

of the things that I've recommended is sitting down and seeing

6:50

what you're good at , what you do well , what you've been compensated

6:52

well for , what you've been recognized for , and

6:55

really start kind of honing in on those general

6:57

topics , that kind of encapsulate all

6:59

those things , and just start going

7:01

in that direction . People ask well

7:04

, what's the next thing that I do ? I say we'll take the next

7:06

step . If you don't know where you're gonna end up , that's

7:08

fine . There's this acceptable

7:10

range of success , right , it's not from 0.8

7:12

at point B , it might be from like 0.8

7:14

at point A , 0.35 , right , but

7:17

you're still going towards B . So

7:20

that's what I would say take the next

7:22

logical step , focus on the things that you

7:24

are good at and push yourself a little

7:26

bit , because when you get that next incremental win

7:28

, it's gonna lead to additional wins if you keep it framed

7:31

in a positive perspective .

7:32

I love that you used to work incremental

7:35

, because stepping out

7:37

, trying to eat the whole elephant in one bite does not happen

7:39

. No , and what's

7:41

the danger of trying to eat

7:44

the elephant in one bite , because some people think

7:46

it's all or nothing ? What's the danger for

7:48

leaders when they're trying to do all or nothing when

7:50

it comes to confidence , when it comes to ability

7:52

to have momentum or positive reinforcement

7:54

? What's the danger of trying to get it all

7:57

done and having to go post too far out

7:59

?

7:59

Yeah , burnout , I

8:03

call it leadership fatigue , right , you bite off

8:05

more than you can chew . And

8:08

then sometimes what happens is , if you don't have these

8:10

little micro adjustments or

8:13

this incremental path forward and

8:15

you try to take on too much at one time , you're gonna

8:17

miss things potentially . That's

8:19

why teams are important , right . That's why we have

8:21

all these kind of categories that are the spectrum

8:23

of leadership in our organizations

8:26

. Hopefully , and it's important

8:28

because when you get to the point where you're overworked

8:30

or you're burnt out or you're experiencing this leadership

8:33

fatigue , oftentimes you start taking

8:35

on the work of other people , and that's not your job

8:37

as a leader . Your job is to provide the vision

8:39

for the organization and

8:41

to motivate your people and give them hope to

8:43

move forward right , so

8:45

I have to unpack that .

8:46

Dr Sinclair , I wanna let you go for 100 miles

8:48

an hour past this one . The role

8:50

of a leader is not to take

8:53

on other people's job . I think that's a fundamental

8:55

understanding . Can you expand on that before us

8:57

? And I know in agreement we say , hey , how far or

8:59

how deep did I go ? I think this is where the

9:01

pause and just a little bit of put it in part . You

9:04

make a very good distinction as

9:06

you take on other people's job or role and that's

9:08

not our job . What's the job of a leader

9:11

? Or how do they avoid

9:13

or stay away from doing that ?

9:15

Yeah , so leaders should be visionary , right

9:18

? I think you're cut from a similar clock that I

9:20

am . If I were to use the military as a metaphor

9:22

, you know , going through bootcamp

9:25

or basic training , you typically have a

9:27

senior drill instructor or

9:29

a drill sergeant . And that guy

9:31

is usually like you know , he's the

9:33

kind of the dad figure , he's the one that cares about

9:35

everybody , right ? And then you have this angry

9:38

little minion that hangs out next to him , right

9:40

? That just tears everybody up and

9:43

makes sure that they're in line . So there's

9:45

this kind of dichotomy of good versus evil

9:47

and I don't want to overlay it , it's just

9:49

for illustrative purposes only . But when

9:52

you look at the way organizations

9:54

are structured , there's

9:56

really only a few people in organizations

9:58

there's directors , there's

10:00

managers and there's doers , you

10:02

know . And when you look at it from that perspective , the directors

10:05

whether it's all the way up to the C-suite or responsible

10:07

for setting the future projection or

10:09

the direction of the company or

10:11

the organization , the manager

10:14

, the ones that are responsible that the doers do their job

10:16

right . Managers shouldn't

10:18

be directing or leading , leaders shouldn't

10:20

be managing and managers certainly shouldn't

10:22

be doing Although in some organizations

10:25

people find their self in that area and

10:27

I find it interesting because when

10:29

it's set up in that way , the

10:32

accountability component lies heavily

10:34

on the management right , and

10:37

the management's job is to hold everybody in the

10:39

organization accountable to that vision

10:41

that the directors or the leaders are setting

10:43

. So accountability

10:45

is a huge component there . I think that's

10:47

the differentiator between

10:50

leadership and management . One of them is more

10:52

strategic , setting the future direction , strategic

10:54

direction , and the other one is making sure people in

10:56

the organization are working towards that direction

10:58

.

10:59

Yes , I'm in meetings

11:01

and it's the thing of the work and the space that

11:03

we're operating in is almost

11:05

the people that are in the middle get stuck . That's

11:08

like one of the most challenging roles in organizations

11:10

and I hear from executives like , hey

11:13

, developing our middle management , but

11:15

they want to see them as leaders , but their managers and making

11:17

sure the work gets done . So it's almost like this dance

11:20

, if you will like when do they roll

11:22

up the sleeves and do it , and when do they roll

11:24

the sleeves down the staff of the way . It's

11:26

a very difficult role within an organization

11:28

. How do you help people that are in the middle get

11:31

unstuck ?

11:32

Yeah , so I think it's accountability component . I really

11:34

do . I think a lot of these challenges that businesses see

11:36

in that space , specifically that cross-section

11:39

with an organization comes down to accountability

11:41

. Oftentimes those

11:43

middle managers are picking up the work that their doers

11:46

should be doing .

11:47

Yes .

11:47

Right Because they have deadlines to meet . Maybe they're not

11:49

hitting metrics , maybe there's a skills or a gap

11:52

within that space . So we

11:54

have to make sure that our people are equipped , the systems

11:57

are set up appropriately and people are appropriately

11:59

motivated to do the work that we're asking them to do

12:01

, because we can't hold people accountable

12:03

for things that they can't control . Accountability

12:06

only happens if somebody can control

12:09

the destiny of that thing . Otherwise

12:11

, you're putting them into an impossible situation

12:14

and that's where you see

12:16

a lot of people getting burned out . They're pushing

12:18

harder , pushing harder , pushing harder , but maybe they don't have

12:20

the skills or the resources

12:23

to improve those metrics . One of the

12:25

reasons why we look through things the way

12:27

that we do , we use a philosophy called

12:29

SMAC . It's framework , it's S-M-A-C-K

12:31

. We look at SMAC in people around is

12:33

what we call it in a fun and gentle

12:36

way . But the S is

12:38

for systems . So when you look at an organization

12:40

, what does their culture look like , what do their systems

12:43

look like ? The M covers motivation

12:45

, not only on the team but the individual level

12:47

. We look at accountabilities , which

12:49

is kind of underlying of motivation , but the accountability

12:52

component whether it's sales , whether it's production

12:54

, whatever the case may be you're looking at means , six Sigma

12:56

, whatever we look at

12:58

communication and we look at knowledge . So

13:01

if there's an asymmetry or something's

13:03

out of line or out of whack or out of balance

13:05

within that SMAC framework

13:08

, that's the area

13:10

that I would recommend diving into to identify

13:12

why is something going on here . The

13:15

motivation issue might not be a motivation issue

13:17

, it might be a knowledge issue . That motivation

13:20

issue might be a communication issue or an accountability

13:22

issue and vice versa . So

13:24

it's really important to get to

13:27

that root cause . Oftentimes we deal

13:29

with symptoms and we try

13:31

to fix the symptoms because

13:33

we're trying to take the fast way around where

13:35

change takes a long time . Building

13:37

a great organization takes a very long time

13:40

. But it would be more important

13:42

to address those root causes than

13:45

it is to continually bang somebody

13:47

over the head with the symptoms of

13:49

something that might not even be there within

13:52

their control . So

13:54

I know I went a little broad

13:56

there , but this is it , this

13:58

SMAC framework , looking at the systems

14:00

, the motivation , the accountability , the communications

14:02

. Knowledge is very important when

14:05

you're assessing your team

14:07

yourself , even looking at the organizational

14:09

culture . Why aren't we hitting our metrics ? I mean

14:11

, if you dive into those five categories and

14:13

there's various categories underneath those

14:16

you will typically find

14:18

a place where you can expand your capacity for

14:20

higher performance .

14:22

Wow , thank you .

14:22

So we're smacking people around so you get this

14:25

about some clear yeah

14:27

thank you for sharing that .

14:28

When you think about your journey

14:30

and what you've done , you've made

14:32

many transitions . Just based off your bio

14:34

, based off what you shared , you know coming going

14:37

into the core , starting

14:39

a business and doing the work you're doing . What

14:41

were the greatest lessons you learned about

14:44

yourself that you still use today

14:46

to help other people ?

14:48

Yeah , I would say don't hold people

14:50

accountable to the same

14:52

level of productivity or

14:55

, I guess , performance that you

14:57

hold yourself to . People are

14:59

different . People have different lives

15:01

. They've grown up in different cultures , different contexts

15:04

. I mean , they're blueprint that resides

15:06

inside . This goal is totally

15:08

different , totally different from

15:11

yours , and one of the things that I

15:13

realized was you have to

15:15

meet people where they are . You have to support

15:17

them and really just kind of take a step back

15:19

and suspend all your beliefs and ideas

15:21

and really engage

15:23

and pay attention to what the person in front of you is

15:25

saying and then allowing

15:28

them to say the things that might hurt . Right

15:31

, it might be tough for you to digest it , but

15:33

as a leader , you know , it's like

15:35

I tell my kids , right , because I don't want

15:37

them to stop talking to me , right , it's

15:39

, you can tell me anything and I'm not

15:41

going to get upset with you . I might be

15:44

frustrated , but it's not

15:46

you . We can figure this out . There's

15:48

going to be consequences , right , but

15:50

that doesn't mean that I have to necessarily

15:52

treat you poorly

15:54

or in a way that you don't need to be treated , because the consequences

15:57

are going to remain . Learning is still going to occur

15:59

, right ? Yes , so it's

16:01

very much like that and then

16:03

communicating with people . So for me it was the interpersonal

16:06

side . When you look at kind

16:08

of where I came from being in the Marine Corps

16:10

, doing some time in law enforcement , working

16:12

in my own business and whatnot it's very

16:14

driven , it's very mission

16:16

oriented and not

16:18

everybody's like that . So

16:20

having to make that pivot on multiple

16:23

fronts for me was the biggest

16:25

takeaway , and making sure that I talk to

16:27

people the way that they need to be talked to not the way

16:29

that I want to talk to them , but the way they need to be talked to

16:31

was very important for me .

16:34

Wow . So you shifted the language a little bit

16:36

on there , dr Sinclair , because we would talk to

16:39

people how you want to be treated , and

16:43

so you changed the way you said I had to talk

16:45

to people , the way that they needed to be talked

16:47

to , or the way they wanted to be talked to , versus

16:50

the way I would . And that is a different , because

16:52

that actually is very accurate for

16:54

me is hey , I want you to know how

16:56

I want to be talked to or listened

16:58

to . If you want me to yell

17:00

and scream , tell me that and we can figure out how to get that done

17:02

for you . Sure , but that's not how I received my

17:04

information . So I want you to pay attention to what

17:07

my receivers are taking in . I want to unpack

17:09

something a little bit with you . I mean , for now , information love

17:11

in the conversation . So , as an organization

17:13

, we look at people's resumes and the bios

17:16

and we hire people on that .

17:17

Mm-hmm .

17:18

But what I've heard from you here is okay

17:21

, but you still got to understand what their blueprint is . I

17:23

got what their resume says and it

17:25

may look like they're really , really awesome on this

17:27

, recommend this document , and then they show up in your organization

17:29

. This blue yeah , I call it carry

17:31

on luggage . Nobody knows what's on that suitcase

17:34

. That nobody .

17:36

Yeah , and they're not gonna tell you what . You're not telling you

17:38

what's in it .

17:40

But if you try to take it , there's a problem . Like

17:43

TSA has a real hard job . But when I

17:45

say check your luggage , I've watched people at the gate lose

17:48

their mind . Mm-hmm , let me help leaders

17:50

be able to be personal enough , but

17:52

giving us space whether or not violating privacy

17:55

to know enough about their people . Take , take better

17:57

care of them .

17:58

Yeah , I think it'll come organically . I really

18:00

do . I made it a point

18:02

to get to know a whole lot about my

18:04

people , how many kids they have , when their birthdays

18:06

are , when their anniversary is , because I wanted to

18:08

support them in that . Yes

18:10

if I saw something going on at work

18:13

as far as productivity or temperament or

18:15

Frustration or whatever the case

18:17

may be , I wanted to know how I

18:19

could support that person , because if they don't have

18:21

their own stuff in Order and we're not supporting them

18:23

in that , how are they gonna bring their best self

18:25

to work so they can support our organization

18:27

? Yes , and then you know , if

18:30

I'm looking at resumes , just to kind of go down

18:32

that road a little bit , if I'm looking at resumes

18:34

and I'm looking to hire somebody , I'm

18:37

not really impressed by somebody who

18:39

has held all these high positions and

18:42

has this high regard , and the reason being

18:44

so Is that what I want

18:46

to hire for is I want to hire for determination

18:48

, I want to hire for agility , because

18:51

the landscape that we're in today might not

18:53

be the sand landscape that we're in three years from

18:55

now . Look at COVID , for example . Yes , yeah

18:57

, if you had a team that was not highly motivated

19:00

and required a lot of prodding to get moving

19:02

, and then COVID hits , you

19:04

probably lost a lot of your people , right ? So

19:07

from that perspective , you know , we can look

19:09

forward as much as we can try

19:11

to look forward , but you find folks

19:13

that are motivated folks that are agile , folks

19:15

that are problem-solvers , folks that don't

19:17

know why they keep going , but they just keep going

19:20

. Those are the kind of people that

19:22

I want on my team , because you can give them a task

19:24

and they're gonna find out a way to do it . They're

19:27

gonna know somebody who's gonna do it . So

19:30

I like looking at it from a perspective

19:32

of looking for potential , not because

19:35

that's proactive and forward-looking

19:37

, as , as opposed to reactive

19:39

where have you been ? What did you do ? Because

19:41

that's no indication of what you're gonna do , moving forward

19:44

.

19:44

Yes . So I love it that you want to know everything

19:46

about your people . How do you

19:48

help leaders separate , or

19:51

Balance , if you will ? If

19:53

you want to know everything about me , which

19:55

means you can't be private I don't know anything about

19:57

you as my leader . You help

19:59

us begin to shift , because it used to be . Don't

20:02

let your people know enough about you , always

20:04

keep them guessing who you are . That's

20:06

changed a lot . People want to know who they're

20:09

working for , what you care about , your

20:11

family . So that thing of keeping you separate

20:13

, the shield , is not reality . Well

20:15

, how do you help people that are in that space that's still struggling

20:17

with letting the people know who they are ?

20:20

Yeah , I'd ask them why . I would ask

20:22

them what they're hiding , what are they afraid of

20:24

? Right , because when you really dive

20:26

into that question a lot of my executive coaching clients

20:28

, you dive into that question it's like , well , I don't want

20:30

to be vulnerable . Well , why not ? Well , because

20:32

I'm gonna be found out . That's the

20:34

biggest fear . Well , good , good

20:37

, get found out and get better . Right

20:40

, because , because nobody's perfect , what

20:42

we have we really do and I'm gonna go a little

20:44

bit off on what

20:47

we have is we have a lot of people walking around being frauds

20:49

. Right , they're afraid of being found out .

20:52

No , you start in trouble . Now that this is clear . You say

20:54

that's

20:57

in clear , start some trouble . But we're gonna let miss good

20:59

trouble go for it .

21:00

Yeah , I do . I think we have a lot of people walking

21:02

around , you know , being frauds . They might have projected

21:04

themselves to be something they're not . They might have

21:06

maybe gotten a job that they weren't

21:08

quite qualified for . Maybe they fudged something

21:11

on their resume , perhaps they inflated

21:13

some numbers , right . So think

21:15

about that . When you're a kid , you steal a cookie from the

21:17

cookie jar . How do you act around your parents ?

21:20

Right .

21:23

Right , you see some of this very

21:25

same behavior in organizations where Oftentimes

21:29

, when somebody is distancing themselves from people

21:31

and they're not willing to engage , the question that comes

21:33

to mind and I would hope that other people would ask the

21:35

same questions why ? So ? People

21:37

are gonna say , well , I just want to be private . Okay

21:40

, well , cool . But you

21:42

understand that that affects my trust level with

21:44

you , because what people want is they want predictability , they

21:46

want information , they want to know that they fit within

21:48

a group and there's some type of structure there . They

21:51

want to know if you're a friend or a foe . Right , getting

21:53

all the way back into kind of the midbrain Psychological

21:56

safety caveman kind of dynamics

21:59

there . They want to understand that

22:01

they're gonna be successful , moving forward . And

22:03

if you're not willing to share information with them

22:05

and it's not helping you

22:07

build trust , and especially if there's

22:09

a question in their head of , oh , is this guy a fraud ? Are

22:11

they , are they not ? Something's not lining

22:13

up here , right , and we

22:15

know you can look around and and

22:18

I Think people , there's

22:20

people that know and then there's people that just decide not

22:22

to say stuff , and then there's people that will say stuff

22:24

, no matter what . Right , but

22:27

we oftentimes pretend that people don't

22:29

know what's going on within organizations . We're

22:31

trying to play nice , but people

22:33

know . People know

22:36

who those people are . I would just say be open

22:38

, be confident in what you are . And if you're not confident

22:40

in that , then fix yourself Right

22:42

, seek that additional improvement , find

22:44

a mentor , go take a class , do

22:47

some meditation or journaling , you know . Get to the

22:49

root core of why , why

22:51

that isn't . Then build that confidence , because with that confidence

22:53

you're gonna be a better person .

22:55

So yes , yes , yeah , thank you for starting good

22:57

trouble . A couple questions . What

23:00

do you tell the leader that's really good today that's

23:02

not good enough for tomorrow ? Yeah , because

23:05

the world is changing so fast . All

23:07

of us have to continue to enhance or

23:09

get better or figure out the next version of ourselves

23:12

. How do you help that leader that's really

23:14

good today Understand they got to continue

23:16

to grow ?

23:16

I Think , just

23:18

pointing out the agility that's

23:21

required to keep an organization viable

23:23

. I've worked with a couple organizations , one

23:25

recently that it was Kind

23:27

of a good old boys club . Yes and

23:30

they refuse to change and what they're finding

23:32

is that their numbers are Decreasing

23:34

and they can't figure out how to do it . But they're stuck

23:37

in their ways and they're not willing or they're

23:39

, they're resistant to Making the changes that

23:41

need to occur . So

23:43

organizations have typical life cycles and if

23:45

you're an organization , a huge organization

23:48

, they have huge R&D departments . Let's

23:50

take the medical devices industry , for instance

23:52

. They're constantly finding new products and

23:54

new ways to do things and they're doing that because

23:56

they have to remain viable . There's tons

23:58

of case studies out there codex , xerox

24:01

, ford , right all these huge corporations

24:03

. It's not limited to those big companies

24:05

. There are tons of small companies that go out of business

24:07

because they fail to change . Just

24:09

go to your downtown area and look at the last

24:12

coffee shop or restaurant that fold it why

24:14

, right ? So sometimes

24:16

, within that , you'll find that they fail to be agile

24:19

. So I think that agility is very

24:21

important , and not looking at it as a barrier

24:23

to success , but as a

24:25

Kind of that fuel that needs to go

24:28

into the fire for success , because

24:30

if you can constantly be agile and pushing

24:32

towards that next change it's on the horizon Expanding

24:36

that capacity , building that margin , then you're

24:38

gonna be in a point where , when bad stuff

24:40

does happen like the economy , you know , or

24:42

COVID , whatever the case may be You're

24:45

gonna be able to remain Moving

24:47

forward and have that forward momentum despite

24:49

that . So I think agility is very

24:51

important and then having that drive and having those

24:53

people in your organization , it could be agile and remote

24:55

of it , like we talked about . We'll help you

24:57

get through these challenging times , but

24:59

as a leader , it's your responsibility because if you're

25:01

not doing it , guess who's watching you ? yes

25:04

, You're all this all the yeah

25:06

, your competition externally right , and then

25:08

internally . All your people

25:10

are watching you and they're seeing that .

25:12

Yes , 100% love what you're sharing . I mean

25:14

and I guess the example I

25:16

use for people iPhone has been

25:18

out since 2007 , so 17

25:20

years , and we're version 15

25:23

. And I say , if I phone knows

25:25

that almost every year they have to upgrade

25:27

, maybe it's one thing , yeah , but

25:29

they constantly upgrade 15 versions

25:32

in 17 years is amazing , yeah

25:34

, and that one thing that people pay $1,200

25:36

for for that one change , which lets you know that , if

25:39

iPhone has to continue to have a different

25:41

version almost every year , what version are

25:43

we at after being in an organization for five

25:45

, six , seven , ten years ? Mm-hmm

25:47

, and I think it's worth us taking a look at . What

25:49

version are we ? If we've been in the organization and you're

25:51

the same person you first came in , there's

25:54

a disconnect for you staying relevant , then

25:56

innovative and creative . So I'll say always , get better

25:59

. What version ? And I literally look at our company , say

26:01

what version are we at this year ? Yeah , I'm

26:03

gonna do a rapid fire with you to see . Have some fun

26:05

for people that listen . So I don't know

26:07

where we're gonna go . We're figured out , so let's go . It's

26:09

the holidays , it's Thanksgiving , so

26:11

Mountains or beach

26:13

. If you were to take your family to a spot

26:16

for Thanksgiving , mountains , hundred

26:18

percent . Okay

26:20

, so apple pie or

26:23

pound cake .

26:25

Oh , we gotta go apple pie , but it's gotta have a more ice

26:27

cream on , it's gotta be .

26:31

So airplane or train

26:33

?

26:34

ooh , that's a good one . I'd say

26:36

train if I wasn't in a pinch for time

26:38

. I'd say train because you get to see so

26:40

much more and you get to see the backside of everything

26:42

.

26:43

Yes , different you , yeah , okay

26:45

, baseball of soccer if

26:48

you're in San Diego soccer .

26:50

Yeah , I , I

26:53

used to love the Padres , but they couldn't pull it off . This

26:55

year we're going with .

26:57

San Diego . So

27:01

I'm actually a question around philanthropy

27:03

. Okay if you

27:06

had all the money in the world , had

27:08

no concerns whatsoever , what

27:10

organization would you help and why I ?

27:13

Would probably find one of the more Progressive

27:17

water producing companies that's

27:19

operating probably in like a drop stricken

27:21

area . Yes , for two

27:23

reasons . I think the need is there and

27:25

If you go four hours and you're thirsty

27:28

, imagine how you feel with

27:30

that . What a horrible , horrible

27:33

situation to be in . And

27:35

then the other kicker is they're coming out

27:37

with some really cool technology . I saw

27:39

a giant billboard they're putting up . I think it was

27:41

in the continent of Africa

27:43

. They're putting in these billboards that are

27:45

capturing kind of residual water

27:47

from the atmospheres After

27:49

them inside of the support structure

27:51

with a spigot on it . So it's just the technology

27:54

that's going into . This stuff Not only

27:56

has a technical challenge , but I think they're very high

27:58

nobility with , you know , providing with

28:00

for folks that are Just in

28:02

that type of dire need . So I'd say

28:04

water Awesome what

28:07

are you most proud ?

28:07

of in your career professional .

28:10

Not stopping . Yeah

28:14

, you know , I did . I did 10 years in the Marine Corps and

28:16

a lot of people are like , why did you do 10 years ? Well , it wasn't

28:18

fun anymore . You know , I saw Afghanistan . Just

28:20

I was just , I had my fill right .

28:22

I knew there was more .

28:23

And then we didn't talk much about it . But I worked for 13

28:26

years as a police officer and a supervisor

28:28

in a very busy city and

28:30

promotions dried up , recruitment

28:32

dried up , so I wasn't done yet

28:34

and there just wasn't space in that organization

28:37

. So I'm proud about having the intestinal

28:39

fortitude and the drive and the foresight

28:41

not only to prepare for the pivot but

28:43

to actually pivot when the time came , because

28:46

it's been helpful . So I would say not giving up .

28:49

I don't know if anybody's responded to that question . That way

28:51

is continue going , not giving up when it came

28:53

to the professional question . Most of it is a degree

28:55

or some achievement or some accolade . But

28:58

you're absolutely right , you know . Look at your body

29:00

and I look at how you kept going . It shows in

29:02

your body that they sent over , which is phenomenal

29:05

. I think we get stuck of fear

29:07

based and we won't take the leap

29:09

.

29:10

Yeah .

29:10

I'm sorry to unsure . So

29:13

the last question I have before I talk about

29:15

your business , so people can reach out to you . Trust

29:18

is at an all time low force as a country

29:20

.

29:21

And every segment of us . Yeah , trust , trust

29:23

.

29:24

Is that an all time low in every

29:26

segment of our society ? How

29:28

do you help leaders rebuild trust ? Cause it's broken

29:30

. The people are not trusting institutions . They're

29:33

not trusting our leaders in all classes of

29:35

our society . How do we rebuild trust

29:37

with our people ?

29:40

I think you need to spend time with them . I

29:42

really do . And I think trust

29:45

requires relationships . Trust

29:47

requires consistency , not

29:49

only in messaging but in action . And

29:52

you know , whatever level you're looking at , whether you're looking at

29:54

business or politics or even in your own family

29:56

you know people need a trust that you're gonna do the same

29:59

, the things that you say you're gonna do . And

30:01

then when you say that you're gonna do them , either

30:03

don't say it if you're not gonna do it Right

30:06

, or be truthful in your conversation

30:08

, say I'm gonna try to do it right , without

30:11

deception , or you just go do it . And

30:13

I think a lot of times as leaders you know you get

30:15

into that point of burnout or leadership fatigue where you

30:17

start kind of withdrawing from

30:19

your people because they become a burden

30:21

to you , because you're so busy . Well

30:24

, clear your calendar , you know , or put

30:26

it on your calendar and schedule some time

30:28

to spend some time with your folks and get to know

30:30

them . You'll be surprised

30:32

what's happening within your organization , the expertise

30:35

that resides within your organization , the

30:37

things that you haven't been told by the people

30:39

directly below you , because they're protecting themselves

30:41

or protecting people below them . Go

30:44

engage with your people , talk with

30:46

them , find out what's going on on the ground and build

30:48

those relationships . It will improve trust .

30:51

Yes , absolutely . I 100%

30:53

endorse . Trust starts with

30:55

relationships . You find very little

30:57

. I call it relationship equity is

30:59

what I use it for . Oh yeah , I say , at the end

31:02

of the day it's just as important as your credit score

31:04

. If your relationship equity

31:06

is low , it's gonna cost you a lot . It

31:09

really does cost a lot . I mean , the closer

31:11

you and I are , you'll pick up the phone

31:13

the first time , you'll respond , you'll follow

31:15

through , you'll check on me . But if

31:18

that relationship equity is low , you

31:20

may not pick up the first time or you may not show

31:22

up when I need you the most . And so I will tell leaders

31:24

work on your relationship equity just as well as you

31:26

work on your credit score . Make sure you have a good relationship

31:28

score . That's good , I like that , yes

31:31

, I tell people , I use it all the time when they're on

31:33

. Dr Sinclairis is even

31:35

on these calls . I begin to build relationships

31:37

, yeah , so hopefully

31:40

everyone is listening . Phenomenal information

31:42

, great interview . We'd love to have you back at some

31:44

point because I think there's so much more that we can add

31:46

value to the people that are listening . Two

31:49

questions If people are interested

31:51

in wanting to reach out to you , first , what

31:53

would people be experiencing or

31:55

what would be happening in your company that

31:57

they should call you and

31:59

then tell us how to reach you ?

32:01

Sure . So typically when

32:03

companies seek us out on the Sinclair

32:05

performance side , it's because they're

32:07

struggling with something . It might be financial

32:09

, it might be a change initiative that you're trying to push

32:11

through . There might have been a change in leadership where

32:13

now this new person is having to

32:15

come in . It could be cultural or

32:18

it could just be strictly KPI or performance-based

32:20

. So what we'll do is we'll come in , we'll

32:22

try to identify those root causes . We're not interested

32:25

in symptoms . We just follow the symptoms down to the

32:27

root cause , looking through that

32:29

smack framework , and then

32:31

we'll work with that team internally

32:33

to build an action plan to

32:35

improve those gaps or to close those gaps

32:37

moving forward . That's what we do . We're

32:40

really agile in it . We have a great group of

32:42

people that work for us , from the marketing side

32:44

to the financial side . So our

32:46

goal is to help other people succeed and

32:48

in doing so they're able to expand

32:50

their capacity and drive higher performance . So you

32:52

can find us at SinclairPerformancecom or

32:55

you can just reach out to me directly , jared , at

32:57

SinclairPerformancecom , and we're happy to chat

32:59

. We're not a fit for everybody , and that's okay

33:01

. Some organizations just think they're ready or

33:03

they're kind of feeling stuff out , and that's

33:06

okay . It's not always appropriate

33:08

to go with a consultant , and if you find a coach

33:10

or a consultant , that's really pushing you red

33:13

flags .

33:14

Yes .

33:15

Be cautious about that , because we're

33:17

not a solution for everybody , but the people that we

33:20

do partner with . We see great results , so

33:22

we wanna make sure that we maintain that trust

33:24

and that relationship with our folks . Yes

33:26

, yes .

33:27

Thank you for the nominal information for everyone

33:29

. We release podcasts every single Monday

33:31

, or different podcast . We love the fact that I

33:33

guess come on and they're really transparent , walking

33:36

on and really in real time . So

33:38

thank you for your transparency and the value that you added

33:40

to our audience to make sure that it's making

33:42

a difference for them . So thank you

33:44

, dr Sinclair , for the opportunity . Again , ron

33:46

Harvey , the Vice President , chief Operating

33:48

Officer of Global Core Strategies and Consulting

33:50

Leadership for our Columbia , south Carolina , thank

33:53

you for joining Dr Sinclair andI and

33:55

we look forward to the next opportunity

33:57

.

33:58

Well , we hope you enjoy this edition

34:00

of Unpacked Podcast with

34:02

leadership consultant Ron Harvey

34:04

. Remember to join us every Monday

34:06

as Ron Unpacked's sound advice , providing

34:09

real answers for real leadership

34:11

challenges . Until next time , remember

34:14

to add value and make a difference

34:16

, where you are , for the people you

34:19

serve , because people always

34:21

matter .