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Welcome to Unpacked Podcasts with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting.

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Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey.

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Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference.

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So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host.

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Ron Harvey. Good afternoon. I'm Ron Harvey.

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I'm the vice president and the chief operating officer of Global Core Strategies and Consulting, which is a leadership firm based out of Columbia, south Carolina, and we've been around this is our 10th year business, so we're super excited about that.

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But we are all about creating a winning culture and organizations and we do that through the lens of a leader.

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We truly believe leaders make or break organizations and our job is to help them be the best they can be as leadership and for us, leadership is service and service requires sacrifice.

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So we're asking our leaders to be really intentional about being of service to the people that they're responsible for.

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The responsible to. So happy to have you here for all you that are watching, but I'm really excited about unpacking with Ron Harvey and my guest today, ben Nooner.

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For a while, stacy Haggerty she's been a.

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When I first met her, we were really cool, we had fun, we connected.

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Then we met at Coffee one day up in Greensboro Spartanburg area and really just been standing in touch.

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So thanks to virtual and thanks to the technology, I get to have her again almost like in person, to see her face.

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She's changed her hair color, she's smiling and doing all kinds of stuff.

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So we see each other. But, stacy, thank you for saying yes, thank you for coming on to unpack with Ron Harvey.

1:38

Can you introduce yourself and tell all of our guests and our listeners who you are and what you want them to know about you?

1:43

Absolutely. Thanks, Ron. It's so good to be here.

1:46

You were the very first guest on our podcast.

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So, we're excited to be here with our roles reversed.

1:52

Oh and, like you said, I'm Stacy Haggerty.

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I'm the vice president of equity and inclusion for an organization called Envision Rise and we are part of the Institute for Process Excellence.

2:02

Ipx has been around for 30 years and Envision Rise has been a part of that, under and for the same amount of time.

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Envision Rise works with people, part of change.

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So when we're looking at organizational change management.

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We're the ones that help with all of that, and whether it's culture or if you're struggling with a diversity, equity and inclusion idea, that's what we're here to help.

2:26

I'm coming to you from Denver, colorado, but the Envision Rise and the IPX team were distributed all over North America.

2:34

Yes, stacy, thank you so much. And I'll tell you this organization, you know I got the Meet the DCO, the organization, really phenomenal guy.

2:41

You know Joe, and I'll tell you that.

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You know, what really impressed me is just his way of dealing with people and taking care of people.

2:47

But I'll tell you what stood out the most is when my mother transitioned.

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He happened to be just in the state of South Carolina and he personally made a trip.

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He called me on the phone and I'm like yeah, he's checking on me.

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He said well, can you come open up your front door?

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I'm like what do you mean? He says I'm at your house, Unannounced, unexpected, at a time when you're grieving, he shows up out of nowhere because he's in town.

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He says I wasn't going to be in South Carolina not stop by.

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So when you're talking about, like living, what you're teaching, he does it.

3:16

He does, he does it every day.

3:18

So I mean phenomenal and I think, for as you think about unpacking, you think about leadership.

3:22

It's easy to say what you read in the book, it's easy to say what you learn from an academic institution, but it's difficult to do it because it requires sacrifice.

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And you know it requires everything of you to really be the kind of servant leader that we want to see out of organizations and that you can talk about and books talk about.

3:43

It requires so much of you and it requires vulnerability and it requires courage and I'm lucky I work at an organization where people are able to be fully themselves.

3:55

Now, I've worked at lots of places where not only was that frowned upon, you were specifically told.

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You know that your employees don't need to know too much about you and if you want that to respect you, don't tell them about your personal life.

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You know, leave home at home and work and take work home with you.

4:13

That is kind of how it works. Yes, Stacy.

4:16

So when you think about the role that you're in, the work that you get to do, there are not a lot of Caucasian women in DENI space.

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What are some of the challenges Because I'm sure there are some being a Caucasian woman doing DENI?

4:30

What are some of the challenges?

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What would you share with us?

4:32

You know, I think there is a not wrong perspective that I don't understand, and you're absolutely right.

4:40

I have no idea what it is like to be a person of color walking around on this planet.

4:45

What I do know is how we white people can assist in making that better and in getting a better understanding about what we don't understand.

5:00

Now, you know, race and ethnicity are not the only pieces of diversity.

5:04

Absolutely, we've got LGBTQ plus.

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We've got gender, we've got disabilities.

5:13

Yes, We've got age so I've got a lot of perspectives in other groups, but certainly not with race.

5:21

But when you first meet me, I have a friend who always laughs and at the time when I first met her I had blonde hair and she just kind of laughs and says I never thought I was going to be friends with a girl who's looking like the poster girl for 1940s Germany.

5:36

Yes, yes.

5:37

Yes. And you think about it.

5:42

That too Stacey. You're exactly right.

5:44

There's so many layers to diversity.

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There's so many things like the things that's obviously we'll see when I'm show up in the room.

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Nobody has to remind me of a black male.

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What else do you know about me that may be helpful and useful and productive in organizations, and how do you leverage that?

5:59

You know oftentimes, when you think about the work that you're doing it and we were in the green room talking about it is how do people see you and I having a healthy conversation about these?

6:09

Things, quite honestly, are difficult because we wouldn't talk how to have them.

6:13

Right, we were taught not to have these conversations.

6:16

Yes.

6:17

Specifically, you don't talk about race, you don't talk politics, you don't talk religion, so we have no idea how to talk about it.

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Now I've got a daughter who's in ninth grade Her generation.

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They are much better about talking about these things.

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They are much more comfortable than our generation or and others closer to our age are.

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Yes. So when you think about you're in the leadership role, you're doing DNI.

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When you think about you as a woman in leadership, you know this is, you know I want to make sure we DNI is a part of it, but there's a bigger component where we're starting to see, you know, the woman's movement moving forward and we're paying more attention.

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What are some of the things you've noticed that have worked to get better?

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Where we're really valuing women at the table in leadership roles, not just administrative professionals or a helper or someone that's going to make the men look great and all.

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What are you noticing that we're doing better when it comes to women in leadership?

7:11

So let me think back first to my very first role in leadership, and this would have been in the late 1990s.

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So I'm dating myself a little bit, and the expectation was not that I wasn't going to do a very good job.

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It was a job that required me to travel every week and that you know well.

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The question was how are you going to do that?

7:36

I didn't have any children at the time, but I was married and it was sort of this question of hmm, okay, well, we'll give you a shot, come to find out later.

7:46

I was hired at about a 25% less than my male counterparts Wow.

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Luckily, another woman within the organization realized this and fixed it right away.

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So, you know, I went from that to knowing that it was sort of an eye roll and I can't believe we put her in this position.

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Yes, so now, you know, as I grew through the role and I had a lot of growing pains through that role because there were very few people for me to look up to initially and as I grew, more women were growing within the organizations I was working with, but there was always this undercurrent of emotional, you know, when I, you know, become a mother and you got to take care of the kids and got to get homework done and cook all these things that we automatically assume that you can't do that effectively and balance it with Exactly when I had my daughter, I ended up having to leave my job and find a different job because they didn't believe I could come back and do the work.

8:53

Yes, and I realized that there was no way for me to be an effective mother and an effective leader.

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And remember, this is not that long ago.

9:01

Yeah, it's not long ago.

9:03

This is not. I hope that there are organizations that are now looking at women as being really great multitaskers, really great at project management.

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When you get a resume from a woman who's been out of the workforce, don't assume that it's for bad reasons or that she hasn't done anything with her time, especially if she's been a stay-at-home mom.

9:23

She's been working 24-7.

9:26

Oh, she's a project manager. If you run a household, it's project management.

9:29

You are absolutely project management.

9:31

Conflict management, project management, new name budget, I mean you.

9:35

So run a household is difficult and I think oftentimes.

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I'm not a stay-at-home parent. I don't know what that's like.

9:43

Yes, if I was a stay-at-home parent, like, let me go to work, it's easier.

9:48

It's kind of where I was, that you know what. This baby's really cute, but it is time for me to return to work, and my husband ended up staying home with her baby until she was old enough to go to school, because he was the better caretaker than I was.

10:01

Yes, yes, I would say that I experienced that. My age is 15.

10:04

I can remember when Linda was working and I stayed home for a year because, you know, we just didn't want her in daycare until a year, and I was like, hey, I'll take on that responsibility.

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And so we've gotten to a place where now it's not an automatic expectation because of gender that who does what role in a house.

10:19

So both of us played a really, really important role.

10:21

Let me unpack something. You said that that so people get it as well you had some advocates and some champions that were speaking up for you in rooms that you weren't even aware.

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That was how important is it for women to be advocate and champions for others as you climb the ladder of success?

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How important is it for you to reach back and be an advocate and a champion for other people?

10:40

It's probably the most important thing you can do, especially if community is important to you, if your own legacy is important to you.

10:49

I know for a lot of people that as we start, you know, getting on into the later parts of our careers, we start wondering how much of a difference did I make and being able to be a sponsor in that way?

11:01

And that doesn't necessarily mean it's a formal mentoring relationship or sponsoring relationship, but having someone who is willing to speak your name positively in a room full of opportunity is one of the greatest gifts you can give to people in their career.

11:19

Wow.

11:20

Yes, yes. And so if you're listening and you're thinking about it, and you don't have to be at the top of your career to be a sponsor and an advocate, you can be a middle manager, you can be in front line, first line if you will, and still be a sponsor and advocate for people.

11:32

So don't think that it's just title alone.

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Sometimes a person that doesn't have a title is the best advocate.

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And it doesn't even have to be within your own company.

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You could be at a dinner party and you never know when there's an opportunity with an organization that might be perfect for someone that you know, and they're not even affiliated at all in this conversation that you're having.

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So never close your eyes to an opportunity that might be there for somebody.

12:00

Awesome, I'm gonna unpack something else. Obviously, there's a lot of moments of uncomfort for you as you go through and just like every leader, so it's not just gender based.

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I'm just, you know, so for us. I always tell people to behind the curtain.

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We're gonna tell you about our experiences and we're not gonna make it academic.

12:14

Have you ever been in a position where you were held hostage by trying to stay comfortable?

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How did you work out of that?

12:22

You know, I had to really screw up. It had to become worse for me to become uncomfortable.

12:28

Then it was for me to be comfortable and it's a hard place to get to and I think I was a bit of a slow learner initially because I, when I first became a leader or a supervisor or a manager, I wanted people to like me so much and it was difficult for me to have difficult conversations.

12:47

So instead of having those really tough, honest conversations with somebody, I was kind of making it soft and people weren't really taking me very seriously as a leader, because the way that I said it was.

13:01

You know, it would be really nice if you would instead of this is holding you back, let's create a plan together on how to do this.

13:10

And at the time no one was having that conversation with me either to say this is holding you back.

13:15

And I really had to screw up that a couple of times for me to finally get it.

13:21

And at one point I did have a supervisor say to me you know when you've got a toddler and they're running around with the fork, yes let them get to the point where you're.

13:32

You don't nicely say to them don't stick that in the socket.

13:35

You have to use your loud big girl voice, your attention, and they won't do it again.

13:41

That was a good conversation for him to have with me.

13:44

Yeah, I think what I'm hearing you say there, and there's a difference between being accommodating and holding people accountable.

13:51

Absolutely.

13:52

And oftentimes we'll show up and want to be very accommodating, but it doesn't lean into holding people accountable and helping them get better.

13:57

It's phenomenal and I think all of us states you can write a book on.

14:01

We had to mess up and we could. If we wrote a book on that, it'd be a really big book and most of us don't want to write that book.

14:05

So leave us, if you're listening. Oh, my goodness, we'll be there for days, like all of the mistakes I made to get here, because people think that we didn't.

14:13

Sometimes for leaders we make it look like we've been perfect All our lives.

14:17

We made all the right decisions, got it right every day, didn't make anybody mad, didn't mess up anything, didn't almost get fired.

14:22

You know people didn't throw the towel. Like all of us at least for me I've been in a place where like, how did you get here?

14:28

How do you work out of that place where you are not as competent as you need to be, but someone gave you a chance?

14:33

How do you show up confident when you're not necessarily competent?

14:38

You know, as you're saying, that I'm thinking about a very specific instance where I had to fire somebody.

14:45

It was the first person I had ever fired and, as I was talking with HR about what this was going to be like, what the HR person said to me was well, are you confident that you've done everything in your power and had all the conversation and given them every opportunity?

15:04

That's HR like no.

15:07

And my first thought was well, no, because if I had given them every opportunity, we wouldn't be in this position.

15:13

And then I had to think a little further and say you know what, yeah, I did.

15:17

And being able to be honest with myself and be able to kind of look in the mirror and say have I fulfilled my role as their leader in order to help them grow and to help them improve?

15:32

And did they rise to the challenge of?

15:36

You know, whatever it is? And it wasn't. I can't even remember exactly what the person's role was, but when I sat down to have the conversation with them, I had to dig my fingernails into my hands because I was shaking so bad and I felt horrible.

15:52

I had to have a script in my head, otherwise I was going to end up crying along with this person and say I'm so sorry.

15:59

This is terrible. I don't want to do this and that's not the place for that conversation, because then it's centering my feelings instead of the really difficult thing that's happening with this person.

16:10

Yeah, thank you. I mean, that's why we call it unpacked, because this podcast is really about.

16:15

Let me tell you about the experience. Let me let you behind the curtain and I can tell you.

16:20

When you got a first one as your first person if you even hired this person, it's difficult.

16:24

I mean you probably have more anxiety than the person that you actually got to go fire.

16:29

You know, you're stressing and they're like, hey, we know it was coming, because most times they know it's coming, and they're just like holding on and like hope it's not today.

16:35

And you're losing sleep over night after night trying to get a script together, going to HR making sure you documented everything and trying to be picture perfect.

16:42

And the person was like I should have been fired a long time ago, like I knew I wasn't doing my job.

16:46

I just was hoping you never got to the point. You would actually do it Right.

16:49

So, it's hard to groom and develop and get to the place where.

16:53

How do you have confidence when you're not necessarily competent?

16:56

And you're going to have to stay in the race, you're going to have to continue to get better.

17:00

I tell everybody continue to learn, always be a student, no matter how long you've been in the industry, stay in school.

17:07

So important because things change and it's changed.

17:10

I'm a completely different leader today than I was 10 years ago.

17:14

Wow, which unpack that? Because that was my next question.

17:17

When you think about coming in and you're the young leader, what would you tell the young version of you today?

17:25

Calm down, first of all.

17:27

Calm down. Second, don't listen to that person who told you that you can't show weakness as a leader.

17:36

Because what he was saying to me was don't be vulnerable.

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And what took me a long time to understand was people couldn't connect with me because I was giving them nothing.

17:47

I had such high walls that literally all I was to them was the boss and I was not a person who could understand that they felt would understand difficult things.

17:58

So I had employees who weren't comfortable coming to me saying my spouse has cancer or my kid was just diagnosed with autism, or I'm really struggling with anxiety or I'm overwhelmed.

18:11

They wouldn't come to me with anything that wasn't work related.

18:15

And even when they came to me with work related things, it was very ABC and thank you very much and that was it and there was very little connection and it made everything so much harder for everybody.

18:31

So if I could talk to 29 year old me, my advice would be more of yourself and be more open and show your humanity to people, because if you can do that, people feel more at ease, people feel more confident coming to you and saying I made a mistake or I don't know what to do, because so much stress can be avoided if we know early on a mistake was made and we can figure out together how to fix it.

19:02

Yes, yes, you mentioned on there Stacy.

19:05

Thank you for sharing. Vulnerability is huge, but, as a leader, how do you create a safe space for people to be vulnerable, make mistakes and be able to recover from it?

19:18

Because it's not safe, it's hard to be vulnerable.

19:20

It is. So how do you, as a leader, create a safe space.

19:24

It has to start at the top, that you can't have a C suite full of people who have really high walls around themselves and share nothing of themselves because that's what their MBA program taught them, or whatever, because you can't just say oh you know, tell us what you need.

19:41

We want you to bring your full self to work and not bring your full self to work.

19:45

So when things happened where I had to go pick up my daughter who was sick at school, I didn't just disappear.

19:53

I would let people know I've got to go pick up my daughter from school.

19:56

I'm going to be working from home the rest of the day.

19:59

You can reach me there. And that wasn't something that was just allowed for me, that was something that was allowed for employees.

20:06

And when they watched me balance being a parent, being a spouse, being a friend, being a daughter and being a boss and I was doing it openly that really was probably a changing point for me as a leader was being honest about what was happening in my life, without getting into every nitty gritty thing about I fought with my husband last night or one of my friends, but hey, my dad's not well, I need to go to Pennsylvania or whatever it is.

20:37

You've got to be honest with people and if you model that honesty and model that vulnerability, it's going to allow space for people to get brave and be able to be honest and vulnerable with you.

20:53

But you've got to expect it out of the people who are leading other parts of your organization as well.

21:00

It can't just be the CEO or the executive director.

21:03

It's got to be every leader in every role, modeling it in the way that's comfortable for them.

21:10

Yes, yes, I'm glad you said it too, stacy, because oftentimes the CEO or people in C-suite actually may have the idea of the concept and they want it to happen, but it has to be every leader at every role.

21:19

So if you're the first line manager, you should not overshare, but you can't not share anything, because, as leaders, you want to know everything about your people, but you don't want them to know anything about you, and that doesn't feel like it's effective either.

21:32

So we shifted across the board. So, when you think about you and your role, how important has having a mentor been to who you've become today?

21:47

That's a great question. My first mentor was a black woman named Lisa, and she is probably responsible for everything in my life.

21:57

To be honest, she passed away about 15 years ago.

22:00

She would be so proud of me today, but she taught me to lead, she taught me to be strong and she taught me authenticity.

22:09

She was a black woman in a very white industry and was able to continue to be who she was without feeling the need to code switch.

22:22

She didn't feel like she had to pretend to be something she was not.

22:25

She just showed up as her full self, and I can remember her calling me into her office one day and saying so you ever just going to be you or you just going to be this knockoff version of some leadership book you read?

22:42

Wow, that's a phenomenal question.

22:44

Yeah, and at first I kind of looked at her and said what are you talking about?

22:50

Those walls.

22:53

Well, I guess what you need.

22:59

Like these walls I have up. I got these walls up for a reason.

23:01

Exactly, and she wasn't trying to climb over the wall.

23:07

She was trying to get the wall. Yeah, she was straight through the wall.

23:12

Yeah, she, and you know we stay.

23:14

She stayed my mentor long after I got promoted and I was in a role that was no longer reporting to her, and she remained my mentor until literally two days before she passed.

23:28

And to this day, even when I have big decisions to make, I kind of think about what advice would she give me?

23:35

What would she tell me to do?

23:37

Yeah, yeah, and for everyone that's listening, the value of mentorship has to come from someone that actually cares about you and see you, because sometimes, if they don't care or see you for who you are not for who you think you ought to be to them, but for who you really are they bring up the best in you and they challenge you to be better than you ever thought you could be.

23:57

So I use this phrase often. Sometimes I have to write on the beliefs of what else has about my ability, because I currently don't have it.

24:06

Sometimes people have helped me get there and they believe more in me than I believe in me.

24:10

Have you ever had that experience and how did you work through it?

24:13

You mentioned Joe at the beginning of the podcast and he's probably the person that has exemplified that the most in my career, especially as I was transitioning.

24:24

Before I came into the role that I'm in now, I worked in higher education.

24:27

I was a new administrator and making that switch from higher education to organizational change, management and diversity, equity and inclusion was probably one of the more difficult things that I've done.

24:40

Envision rise. We're a small organization.

24:42

We are not highly regulated like the education industry is, and I've spent probably the first year working here trying to figure out what are the regulations, what are the rules, what are we allowed to do?

24:54

What are we not allowed to do? And Joe finally said would you trust yourself?

24:57

Please Stop looking for the regulation that's going to help you make the right decision.

25:04

You make the right decision and I wouldn't have brought you in if you didn't have the talent to do what we need you to do.

25:11

But you're holding yourself back. And he's still to this day is the person who will cheerlead me, especially if I'm feeling like, oh, this isn't going well, I'm struggling with something.

25:24

He is absolutely a person that can be really honest and say, okay, this part isn't great, what are we going to do about it?

25:33

Yeah, I mean, I can remember years when we met you and you were coming in and you were transitioning and I realized you were the administrator and we met, which is why the important part of us having a conversation and having you on a podcast was huge, because you've always shown up with me as being authentic and having those real conversations as we sat down.

25:50

Every single time it's just like, hey, can you remember being in the room?

25:53

I may have been the only African-American male, maybe two or three when I met you in that bigger room and I didn't feel out of place.

25:59

The team about their arms around me said, hey, we want you here, we want you to talk about it, we want to talk about the things that your challenge wouldn't do, and I was a part of the guests on the podcast.

26:07

When you think about the thing that you share for especially younger generations that are watching and listening to us, what's the one piece of advice that you've given by someone that you still live by today?

26:23

This goes back to Lisa. My mentor Shut up and she would go further to say you don't know what you're talking about.

26:39

Sit down and listen. And she's right.

26:43

She was always right and especially doing the work that I do now being willing to be quiet.

26:52

And not just be quiet, but really listen to what people are saying and what they're not saying quite so clearly and ask those questions.

27:02

Active listening is probably the most important skill.

27:07

If I could get everyone to learn that, think about how different our world would be right now, instead of thinking of the next zinger, the next smart thing you're going to say on Twitter, the next half baked idea you're going to put out there in the world.

27:22

What if you were quiet and thoughtful and asked real questions, not to trick somebody up or to trick them into saying something offensive, but to truly understand where somebody's coming from?

27:37

If we can do that, we're going to solve a whole lot of problems, and it's something that I mentioned to my teenage daughter.

27:45

Others are not necessarily known for their ability to listen critically.

27:53

We've been that person before.

27:55

yes, Exactly so. Knowing that she doesn't have the skills to do that means I have to listen extra hard instead of just trying to do become highly directive with her and taking on that over parenting role, which I do believe is something that came from my work my ability to just be quiet.

28:17

Yeah, it's amazing as you summarize it.

28:19

Like this part of it, I thought about the podcast and how we want to ask questions.

28:24

That allows people to share who they are, not trip people up, but have the real conversation behind the curtain.

28:30

And so when you look at the leaders, you know you talk about parenting and being over directive in parenting.

28:35

How do you manage that in the workforce?

28:37

Because sometimes we bring that same skill set, because our reputation is on the line, our evaluations on the line, our bonuses on the line, what happens with the clients on there are a lot of things that are at stake.

28:48

How do you slow down long enough to do what you said, authentically listen, without giving so much direction in your organization?

28:57

I don't always succeed at that because of all the things that you mentioned.

29:00

You know we're all only human. Your CEO is only human, your COO is only human, your direct boss is only human, and we get stressed out and things aren't going well or there's a mis-deadline looming or a big client fell off the face of the earth.

29:18

You know these things happen and we get stressed out as humans and we think that if we could just clamp down and control everything, that'll make it better.

29:27

We are in control of nothing but ourselves and that's on a good day.

29:34

But you know, being open about it, being honest about the reaction that you're having and being able to say I know this is going to come out highly directive and I'm really stressed out about this client.

29:47

So please bear with me, but do x, y and z.

29:52

So you're the leader for a reason and sometimes you've got to take a harder stance, but for the most part if we can stop and take a deep breath and I know that sounds so trite and so overused but instead of letting our anxiety run away with us and steer the boat, just calm down, drop anchor for a second and look around before you start making proclamations and figure out who needs to be in the room for the conversation first of all, and make sure everybody that should be in that room is in that room, because if you're only having a one-off conversation with somebody about some big looming thing that's happening in your organization, you're not getting all the information you need.

30:43

And when we talk about diversity, equity and inclusion this is that inclusion part include the people who should be there.

30:49

And if you've got diverse voices around the table, those problems that are going to happen, those obstacles that pop up that make us want to become highly directive and start yelling and pointing fingers, if you've got an inclusive, an included, diverse team around you, you're going to come up with the solution without damaging your relationships.

31:12

Yeah, thank you for sharing. So I'm thinking, as you're sharing, a lot of questions, to unpack how do you help leaders they see, because society, at some point there's some people just tired of the word diversity, equity yes, yes they're like I'm burnt out on it.

31:27

I mean I don't agree with it, but I do hear it.

31:29

I learned to meet people where they are. How do you help that leader not get tired of it and understand?

31:34

it's still important so we don't have to wait for another catastrophic George Floyd event before it becomes real again.

31:40

How do you help organizations continue to keep this on the radar, irregardless of what happened with the laws that are passed or the policies that are passed, or what the country decides?

31:48

How do you get organizations just to do the right thing without getting caught up in policy?

31:52

So diversity, equity and inclusion, those words have become bad words and for a lot of reasons.

32:00

Some of those reasons are good reasons, because it wasn't done well, a lot of organizations kind of popped up right after the murder of George Floyd and decided we're going to do things differently and instead they made a big mess.

32:13

Yes, so really, what we're talking about is taking care of your people.

32:17

That's all this is. This is about making sure your organization is the best it can be, and in order to create wrong ecosystems, there has to be diversity.

32:30

Think about nature. That's the way nature is set up, that it's not all bears, it's not all deer, it's not all one kind of tree.

32:38

We have all kinds of diversity in nature, because that's what's required for a healthy ecosystem.

32:44

The same thing happens at work. Diversity is required to make your organization healthy.

32:50

Equity and inclusion those words really scare people, and they're in my title.

32:56

So my title is scary to people but I'm talking about making it easy for your people to come to work and do their job and making them feel as though they belong within the organization, not that their presence is tolerated or that they are a diversity hire, but that they are, like any other member of the team, important to the team and that their insights are wanted.

33:24

That doesn't mean you do everything that everybody says to do, because otherwise that's just chaos, but allowing people to be heard.

33:32

So when we're talking de and I, we're not talking about excluding anybody and I know a lot of times in the conversation white men, here, de and I, and here you don't want me in my job anymore.

33:43

No, no, no, it's not it. We want you in your job, we want you to be talented and we have a growth mindset and we want you to be happy and healthy and be a part of this.

33:53

But we also want to open the door for others.

33:56

So this is organizational change management.

33:59

We're just making a little change so that your culture can flourish, and when your culture flourishes, that's because your people are flourishing and then your business flourishes.

34:09

This is not about tripping anybody up or pushing anybody out of their walls yeah, I mean phenomenal.

34:16

Thank you for sharing. It's not a zero sum game, yeah, and oftentimes it's when people are looking at it.

34:21

They're frustrated and irritated about it, and I've had this conversation a million times and I'm sure I'll probably have it a million more, because I get to the table don't mean you get pushed away from the table and pie gets bigger and we keep getting bigger and we I love the idea that just it's just like the way the world is.

34:37

We think of our ecosystem and you look at all the different plants or all the different birds or all the different types of of things that exist, all the different trees.

34:44

You know like that's a part of the ecosystem and so you want to make sure you include all of that.

34:49

So I'm doing rapid fire question. Let's see what your first answers are to these rap mountains or beach mountains, seafood or grill.

35:00

Oh, barbecue on the grill or seafood.

35:05

I'm a vegetarian, so neither is either awesome, so vegetarian I need to put that one in there for me so airplanes or helicopters.

35:13

I've never been in a helicopter, so airplanes, airplanes awesome, awesome, very car ride where you're driving or a car ride where you get to be the passenger oh, it kind of depends on who the driver is.

35:28

So I guess that means I want to be the driver.

35:31

I want to hand pick who the driver is okay, swimming pools or beach, beach, beach, awesome.

35:40

So restaurants, or rather be at home cooking or have a rest at home.

35:45

Rhetorical, rhetorical, awesome.

35:48

So up north or in the south, up north, up north West coast, or east coast, east coast?

35:55

Last one being on a panel as a moderator or being on a panel as a panelist answering questions?

36:05

Ooh, I think, answering questions.

36:08

Awesome, so we get to see the fun side of it.

36:10

So when you see us, I do that with everyone like rapid fire.

36:13

We get to know people and so if you're listening and you're watching, sometimes just do rapid fire questions.

36:17

You'd be amazed at what you learn about people without asking a direct, complicated question.

36:23

Yep.

36:23

So, Stacy, as we get ready to wrap up the podcast for those that are listening or watching, is there a book that comes to mind that you would help people or send to people or share with people?

36:34

For two things one around leadership, but the other because you are a DE and I expert.

36:40

What book would you recommend for leadership and what would you recommend for the in our Okay, so I didn't know this question was coming, but this book is called what we owe to each other, tm Scanlon.

36:53

Oh, you can't really see it. What we each other.

36:55

So so they'll be able to capture so what we owe to each other.

36:59

What we owe to each other by TM Scanlon.

37:01

Okay, and it's not a business book, it's not a self-help book, it's philosophy and it really is about our social contract with one another and that you know, we don't get to walk this planet without impacting others and what is our responsibility in that relationship.

37:21

Wow, I love it Social contract with each other, Wow.

37:24

So if you're listening and you're watching and you're going to be able to capture this what we owe to each other and I think that's so important because it allows us to see each other as humans and we do have a responsibility to each other.

37:36

Stacy, I mean, you do phenomenal work.

37:39

Love the fact that you came on the podcast and really enjoyed our relationship and friendship with each other.

37:43

What are the top three reasons that someone wants to reach out to IPX and reach out to you and your organization?

37:48

What are the things that you're noticing that is the best use of your company and your organization to help them?

37:54

Probably the first thing is our services, which includes surveys, focus groups, leadership and executive alignments, especially if you're getting ready to make a big change in your organization, whether that's you're thinking you want to implement a diversity, equity and inclusion program, or you're looking to make cultural changes within your organization because something isn't working.

38:15

Let us come in and help you with that. Let us be the ones to ask the hard questions of folks.

38:20

I'm just saying that oftentimes people are more willing to be honest with third party than they are willing to be honest with people within the organization, because they worry about repercussions they worry about am I going to lose my job over this?

38:36

Or is somebody going to think I don't want to work here just because I have some feedback that's maybe not so positive?

38:42

Let us come and do that. Let us help you with that.

38:46

We're really good at getting those hard conversations to occur in a way that lets people be whole, especially in our executive alignments.

38:55

You may be getting ready to implement a change and your executive team is not all on the same page.

39:00

I'd be surprised if there was any change that was going to happen in an organization where everybody was on the same page.

39:06

Oftentimes it's difficult to have those conversations because of broken relationships or different communication styles.

39:14

Let us help you with that.

39:17

We're good at that. The third thing that we're really good at is we're really good at training.

39:21

We are great at helping people engage with content that otherwise they may be really tempted to just kind of click their way through and say, okay, I did my compliance training for these.

39:34

I promise not to make any dirty jokes and I promise to keep my hands to myself.

39:38

That's not what we do, but letting us do training that encourages everyone to be more reflective about themselves.

39:48

You find that when employees are able to reflect on their own behavior and their own thoughts about their culture and what they do and the workplace, that you end up with an employee who feels more whole.

40:01

And when somebody feels more whole, they're going to come to your organization and just absolutely bring their best selves.

40:09

Wow, phenomenal. I mean love the interview, Love the opportunity to have you on the show.

40:13

What it did mean to me is that we got to spend more time talking and finding a way to support one another.

40:17

I love what you're doing. I would love to be able to partner with your organization and continue to add value to the people that we serve.

40:23

So it's always a great conversation anytime I get a chance to talk with you in the space that we're in.

40:28

How do people reach you?

40:31

You can email me at stacystaci at envisionrisecom.

40:36

If you want to find out more about our services and training and see our podcasts and some of our thought leadership items, you can find us at envisionrisecom.

40:47

And, ron, it's been such a pleasure. I have missed you so much.

40:52

Thank you so much. Are you on LinkedIn as well?

40:55

I am Stacy Negrie H-E-G-A-R-T-Y on LinkedIn.

41:00

Awesome. Are you still doing your podcast and are you still looking for guests?

41:04

We are. We are always looking for guests and on our website you can go to where the podcast drop down and there's actually an information box where you can check.

41:14

I'm interested in being a guest and there's no cost.

41:17

There's nothing like that. It's literally just a conversation to hear what people are doing in the world and what's getting them excited about work.

41:26

Yes, yes, Thank you so much, Stacy. You've been a phenomenal guest, phenomenal behind the curtain conversations.

41:32

I love the way you show up and being authentic and you know which is important.

41:35

We talk about it all the time, but I don't think everybody understands, like, what being authentic is, and then when people are asking us to show up authentic, I don't think they're ready for it yet.

41:45

So maybe there's an opportunity where we get to spend some time to show people like, how do you get ready when you tell all these people to be authentic and they show up authentic?

41:51

And you're like, I wasn't ready yet for that. I didn't know that was coming.

41:56

I was coming down authentic.

41:59

How do I turn down my authentic? I just showed up.

42:01

Now I got to go change this whole outlook. So thank you for that, for everyone that's listening.

42:05

Thank y'all for listening. Thank y'all for joining us. Consistently.

42:08

Every Monday, we release a new episode of Unpacked with Ron Harvey.

42:12

My guests are always, you know, really, as Stacy said, hey, I didn't know that question was coming.

42:16

They don't know what question is coming next. I really want us to show up authentic.

42:20

I want us to show up as real and behind the curtain, so nobody knows what the question is.

42:25

I don't even know what I'm going to ask. This is a really unpacked with Ron Harvey real time with all the blue process in it.

42:30

So if you ever need anything from either one of us, the best way to reach me is really just find me on LinkedIn or you can go to our webpage for Global 4, and it gives an opportunity to reach out to us.

42:41

We love supporting people. We love doing the work that we do all about creating a winning culture.

42:46

So thank you for joining Stacy and I today.

42:48

Until next time with our next guest, continue to tune in, send us questions, send us things you want us to talk about, stacy or I on either podcast would be happy to take those on, because we want to make a difference and add value to what you're trying to get done.

43:01

It's not just about us and our organization.

43:04

It's about us making a difference in our community. So thank you all for joining us.

43:07

Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey.

43:14

Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacked's sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges.