0:04

After 65 years, we've pretty

0:06

much mastered the art of making plastic.

0:09

What we haven't yet figured out is what

0:11

to do with the plastic when we're done with

0:13

it. It lasts a really long time. It

0:16

doesn't biodegrade, so it just sits

0:18

there. Of all the forms of plastic

0:20

being dumped into our oceans and our landfills,

0:23

you might not think that toothpaste

0:25

tubes are much to worry about. But

0:27

you'd be wrong. So there

0:29

are roughly 20 billion, with

0:31

a B, toothpaste tubes produced every year.

0:34

Most of them, or if not all of them, wound

0:36

up in landfill. That's

0:38

because you can't recycle toothpaste

0:41

tubes. Or at least you couldn't until

0:44

Colgate spent five years and

0:46

millions of dollars coming up with a

0:48

recyclable tube and then did

0:50

something highly irregular with

0:52

the patent. I'm David Pogue, and

0:55

this is Unsung Science.

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1:46

Season 2, Episode 10, The

1:48

Multi-Million Dollar Toothpaste Tube.

1:52

Can you

1:54

imagine, until the late 1950s,

1:56

there was no such thing

1:59

as plastic. My parents

2:01

lived in a world before plastic,

2:04

maybe yours too. The ingenious alchemy

2:06

of coal and oil provides the material. Ingenious

2:09

machinery presses and stamps and molds

2:11

the material into a wide variety of

2:13

products. Plastic was cheap,

2:15

sanitary, strong, light,

2:18

and so durable it could last forever.

2:21

And that actually is the problem.

2:24

We manufacture 460 million tons of plastic

2:26

a year, and

2:29

we recycle only around 9% of it. The

2:33

rest goes either into the landfill

2:35

or someplace even worse, the ocean.

2:38

Every year, 14 million

2:41

tons of plastic ends up in

2:43

the ocean.

2:44

Plastic in the ocean has a tendency

2:46

to break down into ever smaller pieces. And

2:49

these tiny pieces then get taken up even

2:51

lower down in the food chain. So we know

2:53

that it ends up on our dinner plates.

2:56

Roland Geier is a professor of environmental

2:59

science at UC Santa Barbara, who

3:01

studies how much plastic we throw

3:03

away. There's plastic in my food? There

3:06

is plastic in your food, plastic

3:09

in your sea salt, and there

3:11

is plastic coming out of your tab.

3:13

But even with the tiny fraction of plastic

3:16

that we put into the recycle bin, 40% of

3:19

that is contaminated by

3:21

food or paper labels or

3:24

other materials. And therefore,

3:26

worthless. Recycling plants

3:28

pull that contaminated stuff out and

3:31

just throw it away. Send it to

3:33

the landfill. We used to ship the

3:35

unsaleable plastic to China, where

3:37

desperately poor people would paw through

3:40

it and try to find usable bits. But

3:43

in 2018, the Chinese government decided

3:45

it no longer wanted to be the world's dumping

3:47

ground, and the country stopped

3:50

importing all our dirty plastic. Today,

3:53

most of our contaminated plastic goes

3:56

into the landfill

3:57

or the ocean.

3:59

At this point, you're probably feeling pretty

4:02

depressed.

4:03

But hold on now. It's

4:05

about to get worse.

4:07

Even pure, clean plastic that

4:09

you put into the recycling bin may get

4:11

pulled out and thrown into the landfill.

4:14

It's true. Just because it has that

4:16

little Chasing Arrows Triangle

4:18

logo on it doesn't mean it's actually

4:20

recyclable.

4:24

Welcome to Can You Recycle

4:26

That? The exciting game show where

4:28

you realize how little you know about

4:31

what gets recycled. Let's begin

4:33

with round one for 100 points.

4:36

Number one plastic. You

4:38

look at the little triangle logo in the package and it

4:40

says number one, number one

4:42

plastic. That's what soda bottles and

4:44

food jars are made of. Can

4:47

you recycle that? Yes,

4:50

you can. There's

4:55

a solid market for clean number one plastic.

4:58

In other words, there are companies willing to buy

5:00

number one plastic to make into new things.

5:04

How about number two plastic?

5:06

That's milk jugs and detergent bottles. Yes,

5:10

you can.

5:15

Number one and number two are

5:17

the good stuff. An impressive 30% of it

5:19

gets recycled. Well,

5:22

relatively impressive.

5:25

But what if it's black plastic

5:27

like takeout bowls? No,

5:32

I'm sorry. Black

5:37

plastic confuses the optical sorting equipment

5:40

at most recycling plants. It all

5:42

goes to landfill.

5:43

Complain to your restaurants. What

5:46

about plastics number three, four,

5:49

five, six and seven? No.

5:58

Some cities collect plastic. three through

6:00

seven, but virtually none of it actually

6:02

gets recycled. It's burned or landfilled.

6:06

When a company puts that little Recycle Me logo

6:08

on their number three, four, five, six, and seven plastics,

6:11

it's just a cynical ploy to make

6:13

us think they're good citizens. That's

6:15

called greenwashing. You

6:18

also can't put plastic bags or plastic

6:20

wrap in your recycle bin. It comes

6:22

up the equipment at the plant. Fortunately,

6:25

most big grocery stores will recycle

6:28

plastic film.

6:31

So you're starting to grasp the scope of this problem.

6:34

And to solve it, we have to do battle with

6:36

lobbyists for the oil and plastic industries

6:39

who desperately do not want

6:41

us to start using less plastic.

6:44

But this much is for sure.

6:46

We the people cannot solve the

6:48

problem through individual action.

6:50

Doing better at recycling won't solve

6:53

the problem. We need corporations

6:55

to get involved, like the ones

6:57

that make toothpaste tubes. My

6:59

name is Greg Cora, worldwide

7:02

director of global packaging and sustainability

7:04

for Colgate-Palmolive. I'm Stefan

7:06

Habif, and I'm the chief technology

7:08

officer here at Colgate-Palmolive. Now,

7:11

you might chuckle at the notion of sitting

7:13

down with two toothpaste executives at

7:16

the idea that they might do something

7:18

about the plastic crisis. But

7:20

that's only because you don't appreciate the

7:22

scale of the toothpaste tube problem.

7:25

So there are roughly 20 billion

7:28

with a B toothpaste tubes produced every

7:30

year, most of them, or if not all of them,

7:32

wound up in landfill. Twenty

7:34

billion is pretty bad.

7:36

But it could get a lot worse

7:38

because, and I hope you're sitting down

7:40

thinking happy thoughts, it turns

7:43

out that about 45 percent of the world's

7:45

population does not use

7:47

toothpaste.

7:48

Also, 70 percent of the world

7:51

does not use toilet paper. But

7:53

that's a different conversation. The point is, there

7:56

is still way too many people

7:59

in too many countries that either

8:01

don't have any oral hygiene, or

8:04

don't brush their teeth with a fluoride

8:06

toothpaste,

8:08

or don't brush often enough. He's

8:10

pointing out that all that unbrushed

8:12

humanity

8:13

could be a business opportunity for Colgate.

8:16

These people could one day buy toothpaste,

8:19

or to put it more kindly, we

8:21

have been addressing a major

8:24

health crisis that is right

8:26

under our nose. WHO

8:29

has estimated that 45% of the

8:33

world population is affected

8:35

by oral disease. WHO

8:38

is the World Health Organization.

8:39

So what we've been trying to do, we've

8:42

been trying to make sure that everyone

8:45

brushes twice a

8:47

day with fluoride toothpaste, and

8:50

that would improve their health. Because by the way,

8:52

oral health has been linked to systemic

8:54

health. Issues like diabetes,

8:57

like cardiovascular disease,

9:00

etc. But in doing that, we will

9:02

increase the amount of toothpaste tubes

9:04

that are being produced. So we

9:06

also concerned obviously about

9:09

our planet and sustainability. So

9:11

yes, Colgate does intend

9:13

to spread its toothpaste to the vast unbrushed

9:16

masses, but Colgate also realizes

9:18

that, as Spider-Man's Uncle Ben

9:20

put it, with great power comes

9:23

great responsibility.

9:26

Okay, so somewhere along the line,

9:29

somebody internally at the company said, guys,

9:32

we got to do something about these billions of toothpaste

9:34

tubes. Yep, we needed

9:36

to deliver a recyclable toothpaste

9:39

package, right? And we called it a package because

9:41

we didn't know at that time whether

9:43

it would be a tube or not.

9:45

So this goal was set

9:48

before we knew there was even a pathway

9:50

to a solution, and before we

9:53

knew how much scale it could be.

9:54

So that was the impetus,

9:57

or the starting. 2014. And

10:02

we looked very broadly and really

10:04

obsessed with the problem

10:06

of why are toothpaste

10:08

tubes not recyclable? Why

10:11

is toothpaste even in a tube? What

10:13

needed to be true to make them recyclable? It

10:15

began five years of R&D

10:18

work that went in a number

10:20

of different directions. I mean, really?

10:22

What could possibly take five years? Well,

10:26

the big problem is that every one of those 20 billion

10:29

tubes a year is made of more

10:31

than plastic. Every single

10:33

one has an aluminum lining

10:35

inside,

10:37

so you can't recycle it. There's

10:39

no machine on earth that can separate

10:41

out the plastic from the metal foil. They're

10:44

bonded together forever.

10:46

And then because of that, they weren't

10:48

accepted by recyclers

10:51

at scale anywhere. So if I were to take

10:54

an empty toothpaste tube, cut it in half,

10:56

I would see that the inside is actually reflective

10:59

shiny metal. For today's

11:01

conventional tubes? Yes.

11:03

Okay, so why not just get rid of the

11:05

metal lining?

11:06

Then, boom, people can

11:08

toss the plastic tube into the recycling bin.

11:11

Well, the metal lining is there for the same reason

11:14

potato chip and snack bags have metal

11:16

linings to lock in freshness.

11:19

What that metal layer is doing

11:21

for you, it's a barrier, oxygen,

11:24

flavor, many things, and you

11:26

get the plastic for performance,

11:29

the metal for barrier. I

11:31

kind of giggle every time he uses the word

11:33

performance when we're talking about a tube

11:36

of toothpaste. But he means

11:39

all the things we want from a toothpaste tube.

11:42

By performing, he needed to protect, be hygienic,

11:45

and all of those things from squeezability

11:48

to heat resistance and

11:50

other things. And above all,

11:52

preserve the flavor. Colgate

11:55

is very focused on the performance

11:57

of flavors. For many...

11:59

of our brands, people have been brushing their

12:02

teeth with it their entire life, right? So the

12:04

flavor profile couldn't change.

12:06

I would say if that five-year R&D process,

12:09

it could have been about a year shorter had

12:12

we not paid such attention to

12:14

the flavor. Now, remember, pretty

12:16

much the only kinds of plastic we universally

12:19

recycle in this country are number

12:21

one and number two.

12:23

So it seemed pretty clear to Colgate

12:25

that the new tube would have to be made of

12:27

number one or number two.

12:29

The technical name for number one plastic

12:32

is peat, polyethylene

12:34

terephthalate. Yeah,

12:36

there's a pH TH in there, terephthalate,

12:40

the soda bottle plastic. And the full

12:42

name of number two plastic, the milk jug

12:45

plastic, is high-density

12:47

polyethylene, fondly known as HDPE.

12:51

And when we look at recycling,

12:54

HDPE is one

12:56

of the two main recycling streams that are

12:58

in practice and at scale globally. When

13:01

we embarked on this, our

13:03

target was a scaled

13:05

viable recycling

13:07

stream. This idea about

13:09

let's make it mostly of HDPE,

13:13

how long through the process did that

13:15

idea come up with? Not right off the bat.

13:18

So we knew

13:19

what we were targeting, but

13:21

we didn't yet know how to get there. Hmm.

13:23

Especially because number two plastic

13:26

alone couldn't maintain the flavor and

13:28

freshness of the toothpaste. The tubes

13:30

still needed a lining.

13:32

It just couldn't be metal anymore. So?

13:36

So we needed to re-engineer

13:38

the entire tube to be mostly

13:41

out of a single material

13:43

to replace the flavor barrier

13:45

with a new material that's

13:47

compatible with HDPE. So we took

13:49

the aluminum foil out, we brought in a material

13:52

called EVOH, which

13:54

is a

13:56

plastic compatible barrier. EVOH

13:58

stands for ethylene-viral. vinyl alcohol

14:01

copolymer, EVOH. You'd

14:04

think you'd say it EVO, although

14:06

I guess that would sound too much like EVOO,

14:10

you know, extra virgin olive oil. You

14:12

wouldn't want to make your salad dressing with EVO.

14:16

Anyway, here's what Wikipedia says about EVOH.

14:19

It's a, quote, plastic resin commonly

14:21

used as an oxygen barrier in food

14:24

packaging. It is better than other

14:26

plastics at keeping air out and

14:28

flavors in, is highly

14:31

transparent, weather resistant, oil

14:33

and solvent resistant, flexible,

14:36

moldable, recyclable, and

14:39

printable. Its drawback is

14:41

that it is difficult to make, and therefore

14:43

more expensive than other food packaging.

14:46

End quote. So,

14:49

now they had a prototype that was mostly

14:51

number two plastic with a thin layer

14:53

of EVOH plastic to lock in

14:56

freshness. It's mostly HDP. It's

14:58

about 95% high density pyloethylene,

15:01

which is the target. Okay. And

15:03

it doesn't matter for a recycling standpoint

15:05

that there are different kinds of plastic in

15:07

there?

15:08

Yes. So, we

15:11

engaged with an organization called

15:13

the Association of Plastics Recyclers,

15:16

which is a recycling trade group. Early

15:20

on, we said, here's our idea. We're

15:22

developing a tube that will recycle

15:25

with HDPE bottles.

15:27

How can we do it in a way

15:29

that this is valuable material

15:32

for you? They have a

15:35

set

15:35

of criteria that a

15:37

package needs to meet

15:39

to be compatible with that stream, and

15:41

they have acceptable

15:43

levels of other materials in there. And

15:46

the EVOH barrier is part of that. And

15:49

we were able to demonstrate through

15:51

testing, through data, that this tube

15:54

is compatible with the HDPE bottle

15:57

stream, even going so far as...

16:00

We took our tubes and made fabric

16:02

conditioner jugs out of them. And

16:06

they passed all the performance

16:08

requirement. So what happens

16:10

to that thin layer

16:13

of plastic that isn't the HDPE

16:15

stuff? Does it just get melted down

16:17

and is... Yes. So the small part

16:20

of EVOH goes

16:22

with the HDPE and is

16:24

compatible.

16:25

But even with the flavor issue under control,

16:28

an all-plastic tube would never get off

16:30

the ground without a fix for

16:32

the stiffness problem. HDPE

16:35

is milk jug plastic. It's way

16:38

too stiff.

16:39

You don't squeeze your milk out of a milk

16:41

jug. You pour it. But

16:43

toothpaste doesn't pour.

16:45

Well, we designed it to be high-density pylethylene,

16:48

which is a rigid material.

16:50

And we need to make a soft, squeezable tube

16:53

out of it. So

16:56

the breakthrough

16:57

was to use a

17:00

variety of different layers

17:02

and grades of high-density pylethylene

17:05

that when used together,

17:08

gave you the strength you needed

17:10

with the squeezeability and

17:13

a nice flat sheet.

17:15

It was time to make a prototype. The

17:17

prototype one tube of 2014. It

17:21

was squeezable, all right?

17:23

Unfortunately, the texture came

17:25

out wrong. So

17:27

there's an effect called

17:29

orange peel, right? So if you think of an orange peel,

17:31

it's very stippled on the surface,

17:35

which is great for a fruit, but for a

17:37

package you need to print on, makes

17:39

it much more difficult to produce at scale.

17:42

So this was, in version one, a

17:44

big problem we had. So

17:47

we needed to reformulate the grade

17:49

of material and the

17:51

filmmaking process to improve

17:54

that

17:54

smoothness. Six

17:56

months later, the team was back with prototype

17:59

number two. It was squeezable.

18:01

It was printable. The

18:04

only problem was a side effect

18:06

that the executives of Colgate-Palmolive

18:09

Inc. could not bear

18:11

to contemplate FLAVOR SCALPING!

18:16

Meaning, flavor was still

18:18

leaking out through the walls of the tube.

18:21

Enter Dr. Jun Wang, Colgate's

18:23

lead materials scientist.

18:25

You have to meet Dr. Jun Wang. He was

18:28

absolutely convinced that

18:30

he would get there. It is

18:32

a scientist that has such a resilience

18:34

and passion to solve this problem that

18:37

for him there was no question that

18:39

he was going to get there. Wang's solution

18:42

was to move the EVOH layer

18:44

inward. The tube walls are

18:46

made up of very thin layers of plastic

18:49

and the EVOH barrier was in the middle of them,

18:51

like the cheese in a grilled cheese sandwich. He

18:54

thought that if they moved the EVOH layer

18:56

closer to the toothpaste, it might solve

18:59

the problem of FLAVOR

19:01

SCALPING!

19:01

And

19:04

he was right. By the end

19:06

of 2015, Colgate had itself

19:09

a third prototype. Without

19:11

any FLAVORS, you

19:13

know, flavor leakage. Now

19:16

at last, they were done. Right?

19:18

Ready to ship this puppy?

19:20

Not quite. The plastic

19:22

of a toothpaste tube starts out as

19:24

a big flat sheet.

19:26

They print on it while it's still a sheet,

19:29

which they then chop up and

19:31

roll into tubes. The tubes get

19:33

filled with toothpaste, sealed, and shipped

19:35

out to your waiting mouth. But

19:37

once they'd moved the EVOH layer,

19:40

the layers of the sheet were no longer

19:42

symmetrical from top to bottom. The

19:44

grilled cheese cheese had moved

19:46

too close to one side of the sandwich, and

19:49

the sheets no longer lay flat. Each

19:51

layer of the plastic reacted differently

19:53

to tension, and the result was a sheet

19:56

that wanted to roll up by itself,

19:58

like a movie poster that was in the movie.

19:59

that's been rolled up in its tube too long. When

20:02

they rolled that up into a tube, it

20:04

wasn't a perfect cylinder at the opening. By

20:07

moving it inward, you now

20:09

have an asymmetrical material. Oh

20:12

my god, this is way more complicated

20:14

than you would think.

20:15

And we like round tubes because they look nice, but they're

20:18

also important for scale. We

20:20

make very, very high speed millions

20:22

of tubes a day, so you need a

20:25

consistent round tube to work

20:27

on high-speed equipment. And

20:30

this is the heart of Dr. Wang's patent.

20:33

He engineered a structure where

20:36

the internal forces in this laminate,

20:38

and you could think of it like plywood

20:41

or like a sandwich of material,

20:43

he was able to engineer

20:46

the net results of all these

20:48

materials so that it was dimensionally

20:51

stable. The forces were counteracting

20:54

and it was nice and flat. And it made

20:57

a very nice round tube.

20:59

In other words, Wang counteracted

21:01

the unevenness of the different layers' tensile

21:03

properties by adding and subtracting

21:06

various other layers of different thicknesses

21:09

until the whole thing lay flat. In

21:11

the end, we're talking about a lot

21:14

of layers. A single wall

21:16

of the finished tube is composed

21:18

of

21:18

nine layers of plastic, some

21:21

of them ridiculously thin, like 15

21:24

microns thick.

21:26

That's about 1 7th the

21:28

thickness of a sheet of paper.

21:30

Colgate still had some bugs to work out, but

21:32

the team had conquered the really show-stopping

21:35

challenges. I really appreciate

21:37

what you've done here, and I hate to poke

21:39

holes in it,

21:40

but guess what? When I throw that thing in

21:43

the recycling bin, it still

21:45

got caked on leftover toothpaste,

21:49

contaminating the plastic. But

21:52

I mean, this is very easy because

21:54

that toothpaste actually

21:56

is a water-based product that's kind of

21:59

dissolved. in the washing at

22:01

the recycling facility. There

22:03

is nothing left. So it's really not

22:05

a problem for the recycling facilities.

22:08

Wow. And we also know that

22:11

people tend to use the

22:14

vast majority of the toothpaste in the tube. They

22:16

are very creative. People

22:19

using our product are very creative in getting

22:21

the last bit of toothpaste

22:23

out of the toothpaste tube.

22:27

And so, after five

22:29

years and eight generations of prototypes,

22:32

Colgate finally had itself a toothpaste

22:34

tube that looked and worked exactly

22:37

like the ones we're used to. The only

22:39

sign that there's a difference is a little paper

22:42

flag right at the cap that says, Recycle

22:45

Me. They'd solved the material

22:47

science problems. Now they

22:49

had to face a bigger challenge, the

22:52

human problem. We'll cover that

22:55

after the brief.

23:02

Scammers are best known for living the high

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life, globetrotting on private

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You can listen ad-free on... the Amazon Music

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24:03

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25:01

Before the break, Colgate's director

25:03

of packaging, Greg Korah, was

25:05

telling us why it took five years

25:08

and millions of dollars to re-engineer

25:10

the toothpaste tube to make it recyclable.

25:13

The version that we brought to

25:15

market first in 2019 was

25:17

our eighth iteration of it. And

25:21

each one, I've got a little slide

25:23

when we share the technology

25:25

with others that shows one,

25:28

two, three, four, five, and the challenges

25:30

we had and what we needed

25:31

to do to overcome that. It was

25:33

stiffness. It was how well

25:36

the surface was, how well it protected

25:38

against flavor. So as

25:40

with many R&D endeavors,

25:43

it took iteration. It took creativity.

25:46

So was there a big pizza party beer

25:49

bash when they finally got it? More

25:51

than one pizza party, but we knew it's the

25:53

start of the journey. So

25:55

internally, we say we

25:58

got step one. We're

26:00

now in the second phase of this project,

26:03

which is external engagement driving

26:06

the industry to

26:08

move to recyclability. What

26:10

he's trying to say is that the world wasn't ready

26:13

for recyclable tubes, hadn't

26:15

heard of them,

26:16

was not trained to expect them, was

26:19

inclined to keep tossing them in the trash. Most

26:22

people recycle

26:24

in the kitchen, not in the bathroom. So

26:26

we're hoping that communication on the

26:28

tube can trigger them

26:30

to take it from the

26:32

bathroom and put it in

26:34

either their bin or wherever they recycle

26:37

number two bottles. Is there, will

26:39

there, has there been any advertising

26:42

around these new tubes? Yes, we've

26:44

done something called Share the Answers in Australia,

26:47

which highlights what to do with the tube.

26:49

If you look it up, it's a really cute video of two

26:51

tubes talking to each other, explaining about

26:54

the aluminum layer.

26:54

Knock, knock. Who's there?

26:57

Tank. Tank who? Tank you for

26:59

recycling me. Gotcha, but

27:01

there has been a big Super Bowl commercial

27:04

announcing that you've licked this tube

27:06

problem. We did not make a Super Bowl commercial

27:08

yet. If

27:11

you ask me, training billions of

27:13

people to change their behavior like this is

27:15

a big challenge. But Chief Technology

27:18

Officer Stefan Habif points out that

27:20

Colgate has been in the behavior modification

27:22

business for decades. We have quite

27:25

a bit of experience in our company to

27:27

positively influence human

27:30

behavior

27:30

to positive outcome. So

27:32

one of them is brush your teeth twice

27:34

a day with fluoride toothpaste to get oral

27:37

health. Brush

27:38

your teeth with Colgate. Colgate,

27:40

that'll clean it. Clean your breath.

27:43

What a toothpaste. I cleaned your teeth. Colgate

27:45

toothpaste. Clean your breath. What a toothpaste.

27:48

I cleaned your teeth.

27:50

The other one in the area of sustainability

27:53

is turn off the tap while you're brushing

27:55

your teeth. You keep improving your

27:58

communication, your model until...

27:59

you get to this positive outcome? And in this

28:02

case, it's people to recycle

28:04

the tube, to put it in the recycling bin. But

28:07

retraining us, the people, is

28:09

only half the battle. There are still

28:12

thousands of workers in recycling

28:14

plants who have also been

28:16

trained to throw out toothpaste

28:18

tubes.

28:19

As we engaged with these recycling

28:22

sorters, you know, we were doing

28:24

a lot of tests. We put radio transmitters

28:26

on tubes to show it will go into

28:28

the right place. In one of those

28:30

cases, we're filming this tube go

28:33

into the right place, and there's a human

28:35

on the end of the line, picked it

28:37

off. Because he's trained tubes

28:40

don't go in this line. So even though the automated

28:42

equipment recognized this tube

28:44

is of the right material and the right format,

28:47

the training was there.

28:49

So

28:50

a large focus of the work we're doing

28:52

now is engaging with

28:54

recyclers and educating that

28:57

our

28:57

tubes are compatible with the

29:00

stream, and that

29:02

you can transition from pulling them

29:04

off to accepting them. So you got

29:06

to educate those workers. Correct.

29:09

And there are thousands of communities

29:12

in the US alone that set recycling

29:14

guidance. So this is not a

29:16

small scale challenge to work through.

29:19

But we're partnering around

29:21

the world with organizations

29:23

in this space with two working

29:26

groups that include our peers.

29:28

Tube working groups? Are you saying that

29:31

there are tube conferences? Oh

29:33

my god, multiple, more than one.

29:35

So there's one in North America, there's

29:38

one in Europe. We meet multiple

29:40

times a year. And

29:43

this is a place somewhere like myself

29:45

has a very good time. Frankly, if nothing

29:48

else comes of having written this podcast episode,

29:50

just knowing that there is such a thing as

29:53

tube conferences will have made

29:55

it all worthwhile.

30:00

Colgate has done is remarkable. It's

30:02

obviously not something they did just for PR

30:05

value. I mean, until unsung

30:07

science came along, as far as I know, hardly

30:09

anyone even knows they did it. It's

30:12

something they did for the good of the planet, even

30:15

though it costs them time and effort

30:17

to bring about. But here's

30:19

the thing. Colgate may be responsible

30:22

for half of the 20 billion tubes

30:24

we throw away each year. But what

30:26

about the makers of, you know, Crest,

30:29

and Aquafresh, and Arm and Hammer,

30:31

and Sensodyne?

30:33

If they don't also switch to

30:35

recyclable tubes, then we're in a really

30:37

awkward position. Not only are 10

30:39

billion tubes a year still going

30:42

into the landfill in the ocean, but Colgate's

30:44

own 10 billion will probably get tossed

30:46

too. Because we can't

30:49

really expect recycling plant workers to

30:51

study every tube that comes down the line

30:54

and figure out one tube at a

30:56

time if it's the recyclable kind or not.

30:59

No, if this is going to work, they all

31:02

have to be recyclable. And that's where

31:04

this story takes a twist. A

31:06

year and a half away from launch, I

31:09

walked into a meeting and it was called

31:11

the North America Tube Council, which is two

31:13

manufacturers. I love that there is a North

31:15

American Tube Council. I would

31:17

very much like to have a North American

31:20

Tube Council t-shirt. Anyway.

31:22

They did a presentation that outlined our

31:24

plan, the target for an HDPE

31:27

tube. I told them, you're all invited

31:29

to join

31:29

us in this. We will not defend

31:31

our patent. We're going to open it up. That

31:33

audience took

31:34

note and said, OK, Colgate's going

31:37

down that way.

31:38

You know, and it happened the way we

31:40

thought that we'd signal

31:41

how important it was for us. This

31:44

patent available to anyone in

31:46

the industry wants to use

31:48

it. We wanted to make sure that

31:50

ideally if all the

31:52

toothpaste tubes were recyclable,

31:56

there would be a much less barrier

31:58

for the recycling community.

31:59

to accept these tubes because they don't even

32:02

have to do any sorting. You developed

32:04

this thing and now you're giving it away. I

32:07

mean,

32:08

that's a pretty good gesture. It became

32:11

clear that

32:12

we had to drive an industry change and

32:16

that squirreling this away would be counterproductive

32:19

to driving that change.

32:21

In case you're wondering, the other American

32:23

toothpaste giant, Crest,

32:26

was not among the companies who

32:28

availed themselves of Colgate's technology.

32:31

They did, however, develop their own

32:33

version of these tubes. Crest 2

32:36

is now making its tubes out of multilayer

32:39

number 2 HDPE plastic. And

32:42

Crest 2

32:43

has launched a huge education campaign

32:45

for consumers and recycling plants. All

32:48

told, nine years after Colgate

32:51

started down its recyclable tube, Quest,

32:53

we can report this astonishing

32:56

statistic. 90% of

32:59

the major manufacturer of toothpaste

33:02

have agreed to switch

33:05

to recyclable

33:07

toothpaste tubes and

33:09

therefore will be able to switch the whole industry.

33:12

And it will be so much easier because in

33:14

the future, when we get there, there

33:17

won't be any question, is it recyclable or

33:19

not? I mean, that is like the first decent,

33:22

positive, undisputable, good

33:24

piece of news in the plastic pollution

33:27

world I've heard in a long time. I mean,

33:29

presumably 10 years from now,

33:31

you won't see toothpaste tubes in the landfill.

33:35

That is our hope. And that's our goal.

33:38

I love this story. I love that an industry

33:40

decided to clean itself up. I love

33:43

that somebody is doing something about

33:45

the plastics problem. And

33:47

by the way, this episode is decidedly

33:50

not sponsored by Big Toothpaste.

33:53

No money changed hands. Colgate

33:55

didn't even approach me about doing this podcast.

33:58

I approached them.

34:01

But I had one last niggling doubt.

34:04

Niggling but enormous. I'd

34:06

been deeply affected by a really

34:08

discouraging report on the Greenpeace

34:11

website. It argued that the entire

34:13

concept of plastic recycling

34:16

is a myth.

34:17

Here, I'll read it to you. Quote,

34:20

The plastics and products industries have been

34:22

promoting plastic recycling as

34:24

the solution to plastic waste since the early

34:26

1990s. Some 30 years

34:29

later, the vast majority of US plastic

34:31

waste is still not recyclable.

34:34

The US plastic recycling rate was

34:36

estimated to have declined to

34:39

about 5 or 6% in 2021,

34:42

down from a high of 9.5% in 2014. Recycling

34:47

of plastic waste has largely failed and

34:49

will always fail,

34:51

because plastic waste is 1. Extremely

34:54

difficult to collect, 2. Virtually

34:57

impossible to sort for recycling, 3. Environmentally

35:01

harmful to reprocess, 4. Often

35:04

made of and contaminated by toxic

35:06

materials, and 5. Not

35:09

economical to recycle.

35:11

Paper, cardboard, metal, and glass do not have

35:13

these problems, which is why they are recycled

35:16

at much higher rates.

35:18

End quote. I

35:20

asked Greg Korra about that. We

35:22

recycle so little of

35:25

our plastic. I mean, somewhere between 5 and 8% is all

35:27

we manage. So

35:31

do you ever wake up in the middle of the night going,

35:34

what are we doing? We can't even get people

35:36

to recycle at all. The stat

35:38

you mentioned is considering all

35:40

plastics, including lawn chairs and other

35:43

things. When you get down to specific

35:45

materials and formats, that number

35:48

still is not as high as it needs to be, but it's much higher.

35:50

It's in the 30s, it's in the 40s, depending on country.

35:53

And that's why we chose HDPE.

35:56

Is it where it needs to be? Not at

35:58

all. Right?

35:59

we engage with

36:01

the recycling partnership in the US,

36:04

the US plastics pack, plastics

36:06

packs around the world because that number

36:09

needs to go up.

36:12

And to be perfectly fair to Colgate

36:14

and Crest, the Greenpeace report

36:16

goes on to say

36:18

that number one and number two plastic

36:20

recycling is not a myth, that

36:23

they are quote, widely accepted

36:25

by US recycling plants.

36:28

I mean, someday scientists hope

36:30

that we won't need any kind of plastic

36:32

for packaging or at least any kind

36:34

of petroleum derived plastic. There

36:36

are all kinds of materials that come close.

36:39

I've been the host of 20 specials

36:42

on NOVA, the PBS science series.

36:45

And one time I visited Boston University

36:48

chemist, Malika Jeffries L.

36:50

She showed me a cup made entirely

36:52

of plant-based plastic. It

36:55

was clear, it was sturdy, it

36:57

was compostable and recyclable. It

36:59

looked for all the world like any other plastic

37:02

cup. So why isn't the world

37:04

using that plant plastic instead

37:06

of oil plastic? The biggest

37:08

limitation is their range for thermal stability.

37:11

Their range for thermal stability. Yes,

37:13

so in lay person's terms, you cannot

37:16

use this for a hot drink. Oh! It's

37:19

perfectly good for your cool beer, your

37:21

soda on the rocks, it's got

37:24

you covered. But you wanna make a hot

37:26

tea in there, you're gonna

37:28

be in trouble.

37:28

Well, what would happen? I mean,

37:31

well, we could put a boiling water in here and let's

37:33

see what happens. All right. Oh, cool!

37:36

Did you see that? It kind of shrunk

37:38

up. Oh, it just turned into

37:40

a compact travel size. It's

37:43

definitely got its niche, but you'll be surprised

37:45

when they dump things that people do.

37:48

The point was it's very hard to

37:50

find a material that does everything

37:52

plastic can do

37:54

as well as plastic can do it.

37:56

Okay, back to Colgate. So...

38:00

Is there no other material in the

38:02

world, anything more biodegradable, that

38:05

could be used for these tubes besides

38:07

plastic?

38:08

We absolutely looked at a range of

38:10

materials, and we continue to look at range of materials.

38:13

I would not say it's hopeless.

38:15

We are focused on

38:18

a number of avenues, which includes compostable

38:20

packaging. I wouldn't say it's right around

38:22

the corner, but it is something.

38:25

So until we find that miracle material,

38:28

recyclable plastic it is.

38:30

As we speak, three-quarters

38:33

of Colgate's tubes in the U.S. are

38:35

recyclable. The company intends to

38:37

complete the transition to 100% worldwide by 2025, which is, as

38:39

we now know, an achievement in itself. You

38:47

know after this episode, people are like, I

38:49

got all that stupid toothpaste tube, like

38:51

it's a treasure from the deep. Like, so

38:54

much work went into this! This is

38:56

my life.

39:07

You've just listened to another episode of Unsung

39:09

Science with David Pogue. Don't

39:11

forget that the entire library of shows,

39:14

along with written transcripts, await

39:16

at unsungscience.com. My

39:19

guests today were Stefan Habif and

39:21

Greg Cora from Colgate, Roland

39:23

Guyer from UC Santa Barbara, and

39:26

Malika Jeffries-Elle from Boston University,

39:28

whom I thank profusely. I'm also

39:30

grateful to WGBH for permission

39:33

to use that clip from one of my NOVA interviews.

39:36

This podcast is a joint venture of Simon & Schuster

39:38

and CBS Sunday Morning, and it's

39:41

produced by PRX Productions. For

39:43

Simon & Schuster, the executive producers are

39:45

Richard Rohrer and Chris Lynch. The PRX

39:48

production team is Jocelyn Gonzalez, Morgan

39:50

Flannery, Pedro Rafael Rosado,

39:53

and Morgan Church. Jesse Nelson

39:55

composed the Unsung Science theme music. Our

39:57

fact checker is Christina

39:59

Rubello. and Olivia Noble

40:01

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40:03

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