0:00

Before we talk about the friend group and the

0:04

church group and the couple groups, I want

0:07

to talk about the friendship of your spouse.

0:11

Like, to me, that was probably one of the

0:15

hardest things for me to deal with was

0:19

losing a best friend. And I

0:23

know sometimes we're talking, well, divorce, of course you're losing your best, you're losing your

0:26

spouse. And then now what do we talk about? Losing friends. But I think

0:30

starting with your partner, it's your life partner.

0:35

I know this isn't true for everybody. That's why I want a different perspective on

0:38

it. But I lost the person that I

0:43

not only love, but I talked to every day and they knew we had

0:47

goals together and they were my confidant

0:50

that you least thought was a confidant.

0:54

And then you're betrayed, if you will, for whatever reason,

0:58

that means that you feel betrayed and you lose

1:01

this person that you trust, that you value their opinion,

1:05

that you check in with on most every life event

1:09

that goes on, and that person is gone.

1:13

It just feels. Besides

1:17

whatever divorce means, I just feel that loss of a friendship

1:21

really hurts people. I don't know if people define that they

1:24

see that loss, but anyway, I don't know if you. Do you feel that

1:28

way? I don't. Because you didn't

1:32

have that relationship? Not like that. Yeah.

1:35

No. I mean, at the beginning I felt like we were

1:39

best friends, but that quickly turned and. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't

1:43

somebody that I felt like I could really trust and really go to

1:47

and it would really. So that bond didn't break because

1:51

it didn't develop. It really didn't. I

1:54

mean, looking back when I was in it, I would have been like, oh, my

1:57

gosh, she's my best friend. Right. But I also wouldn't have

2:00

been speaking from reality. Yeah, well, yeah. You graded differently

2:04

now. Yeah. Dysfunctional families, dysfunctional

2:10

relationships when you're in them. That's a relationship. Yeah. That's

2:14

all. You know, everybody thinks your parents are great. Yeah. Because aren't all parents.

2:18

Don't all parents? The cops come every Friday night. No, sorry,

2:22

Bob, that's not true. But you don't know what you don't know. Yeah.

2:25

So I didn't have that kind of loss. It was more

2:29

like when we

2:33

separated, it was more like a relief.

2:36

Wow, interesting. Yeah, mine was.

2:41

Boy, this is therapy right here. Even the other

2:44

day I've got news of somebody I knew in

2:48

Australia, a friend of mine whose wife passed away and I

2:52

was going to reach out to my ex. I was like,

2:55

she knew him and didn't know her. And I thought,

2:58

yeah, I don't need to tell her. I don't need to tell her anymore.

3:02

But my brain just went to, well, she wouldn't need to

3:06

want to know that, maybe. But I was like, yeah, but that's what you tell

3:09

your friend. We're not friends anymore. We're not. And so

3:12

even now, five years later, I still jump into

3:16

friend mode. Interesting. Yeah. Because you go back to certain

3:20

relationships or certain memories. There's been times I've reached out

3:24

before, like, hey, I'm at this restaurant that we used to love and

3:27

whatever. Sometimes you do that. But,

3:31

yeah, to me, that was a major loss in the divorce,

3:35

was losing a best friend.

3:39

And then I feel it's hard to empathize

3:42

with somebody. I know somebody for a fact. They told me the story.

3:46

Their ex cheated on her with her best friend.

3:50

Yeah. She lost two best friends. Yeah. That would be horrible. Yeah. Your two best

3:54

friends betrayed you at once. Right.

3:59

How do you even process. That's a double punch. The person

4:03

you're supposed to go to and tell them, guess what my husband did. And who

4:07

knows what order they found out? Because, sure, yeah. Then you may have told them.

4:10

They're like, oh, no way. That sorry piece of credit. She's the

4:14

one sleeping with you, right? I can't even imagine.

4:18

Okay, so there's that for some of us.

4:22

And then let's talk about the couple friends. I think this

4:26

is when you're married.

4:30

Normally your friends are couples because you're a couple.

4:33

Yeah. Who hangs out sometimes it happens. Right. You have a

4:37

single friend. But in general, I think couples are friends with

4:41

couples. Well, when you get divorced,

4:45

that couple doesn't have a couple friend anymore. Right. And you

4:48

put, I'm going to use the word you, but you put them in

4:52

a situation of like, well, this doesn't fit our

4:55

lifestyle, our needs. We

4:59

don't want the drama. And a lot of people back away.

5:03

And I think it's hard for us divorcees to process

5:07

because our brains are like, well, that's my

5:10

friends. And Steve's the jerk. Why are

5:14

they talking to me? They should be mad at him and support me.

5:18

And the answer is, that's not the way they. Sure.

5:22

They're not seeing it that way. It's hard to process

5:27

why that phenomenon happens. But I can get it. If you're

5:31

couple friends, then you're couple friends. It's not like it's just the girl

5:35

and the girl or the guy or the guy that are friends like you're couple

5:38

friends. And I think it also different. It's different. And I also think it

5:42

puts them in a really bad situation. When you say,

5:45

well, the girls will go talk to the girl,

5:49

and the guys will go talk to the guy, well, that doesn't

5:53

work. Yeah, it doesn't work. And if it does, it's

5:56

dysfunctional, because then they all have to come home and say, well, Steve

6:00

said, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, Cindy said. And then now that puts

6:03

them in a he said, she said. And once again, they didn't sign up for

6:07

this. It's your divorce, not theirs. Even though they may love

6:11

you or at least hung out with you.

6:15

But that's one of the downsides of divorce, is

6:19

the ripple effects into the various friendships. And I think when

6:22

we're losing all our.

6:26

When everything we know to be true, everything we were working for is

6:30

gone. And you say, I just need my friends. At the very least,

6:34

I have my friends. And your friends are like, now, you.

6:37

Know. It'S a

6:41

double punch. And then that

6:44

creates a second phenomenon of, well, I'll

6:48

just tell them everything, and then they'll know why they should like

6:52

me. And I think that's a horrible thing to do. Yeah, that's not

6:55

something I think you should do. Yeah. To try to turn everybody

6:59

against you. Absolutely not. I don't think you should try and turn anybody

7:03

against your ex. It's just like, you show up as your authentic

7:07

self, you sharing about what's going on with you, and if you need help or

7:10

advice, you talk to them, but not trying to turn anybody against anybody.

7:14

Right. That's not how the Lord calls us to walk through

7:18

such a weird situation. It is weird. A

7:22

weird situation. Did you lose

7:25

church friends? Non church friends. Did you all have. We used to

7:29

have. I raised my kids in a small

7:33

town, so we had sports. It was a sport. Right. So

7:37

I lost the lawn chair friends.

7:41

The bleacher friends. Yeah. You know, like, we're all going out to eat before we

7:44

go to the tournament. We all hung

7:47

out all in the same hotel for that basketball tournament,

7:51

and every one of them fell away. Every

7:55

last person that we hung out with, gone. Yeah.

7:59

I mean, there were a lot of military friends. Those were

8:02

all pretty much gone. Church friends.

8:06

Yeah. That was wiped.

8:10

I'm just being honest. I'd had a couple of girlfriends.

8:14

A couple of girlfriends, but not like we didn't go to church together. One I'd

8:17

known for forever and one I'd met when I was in Florida.

8:21

And they are friends. To this day. They still

8:25

call me we are great, great friends, and they

8:28

stuck with me. But it was surprising that, especially

8:32

the church friends, it was just like, oh, I kind of turned around, and

8:36

I felt like I didn't have anybody that was really

8:40

listening and kind of not listening, like, with an eye of, like,

8:44

you know what I mean? They don't want to get dirty. Do they not understand

8:48

it? Do they just like, oh, well, you've got some stuff to go through, and

8:51

you're broken, and so you all just go be broken. I think it's because

8:55

it's divorce in the church, right? We're

8:59

not supposed to be getting divorced. Right. So I think that a lot of people

9:02

that aren't going through that, they've never really thought through. They haven't processed.

9:06

They have not processed it. They don't want to have those conversations. They don't want.

9:10

Obviously, you don't want to encourage somebody to get a divorce,

9:13

right? So I feel like it does put them in a weird situation

9:17

of, like, I don't even know how to talk to this person. I don't

9:21

even know what it's like. A heroin addict, is it not? It's like, well, I

9:24

don't want to do heroin. Well, I don't want to know about what heroin addicts

9:27

do. All. Don't. They don't empathize well,

9:30

because they don't empathize well. They haven't walked down the road, and it's just so

9:34

easy to go to. God hates divorce. Okay. Got it,

9:37

Bob. Got it. Thank you. I hate it, too. Me too. But I

9:41

had one. Sure would love your help. Right? So

10:07

I think that that's probably. That's my guess. I've never been in that

10:10

situation, honestly. But I think that's my guess. When I look

10:14

back on the people that just kind

10:17

of floated away, I'm like, I think that might have been

10:21

why. Plus, you never know what they're

10:25

hearing. Great points that they were

10:28

hearing did bubble back to me, and I'm like, oh, well, then

10:32

that kind of makes sense why they wouldn't want to be talking to me. You

10:35

know what I mean? You nailed something there. I heard something through the

10:39

grapevine about me. I'm like, oh, if you all think that, no wonder

10:43

you're not. No wonder you don't want to talk to me, right? That's not even

10:46

true. Where did you hear it? Where they heard it. I know where they heard

10:49

it, and I'm not going to go fix it because I had to live

10:53

with the rumors, and I did. I had to live with the rumors.

10:58

I think, honestly, that was one of the hardest things

11:01

because I wanted people to know where I was coming from.

11:05

I wanted people to understand the truth and what was going on, but I needed

11:08

to just keep my mouth closed. And

11:12

I knew that people were looking at me

11:16

and had these assumptions and had heard things that weren't true. But I

11:20

just had to be okay with that and know that the Lord would take care

11:23

of it. That's where I had to. And, you know what? Can I just say

11:26

really quick? I did that. I kept my mouth

11:29

closed. And there were

11:34

a couple people at the very end, before I

11:37

left Florida, moved back to Texas, that, on their own came

11:41

to me and they said, we're so now.

11:45

Now we understand. Now we see it all. And we're so sorry that we

11:48

didn't stick with you. Okay. Well,

11:52

that's a nice. Don't get that out of heaven always.

11:56

Yeah. And so I'm glad

12:00

that if I could give a piece of advice, it's just, if

12:03

you just keep your mouth

12:07

closed, only talk to those people that are really close, the

12:10

ones that do stick, the few that stick, Lord willing, you're going to

12:14

have one or two or something like that. And cherish those people, by the way.

12:18

Yeah. And if you think or you know that things are going,

12:21

rumors are going, just keep your mouth shut. The Lord will take care of. The

12:25

Lord will take care of us. Justice is not always served us out of heaven.

12:29

Right. But God is a just God. Totally. And he says, I got it. Totally.

12:32

And so he may protect you. And he hears conversations you don't hear.

12:36

He's got it. And if. So what? So what if a rumor is

12:40

going around, you don't have to fix it. You don't have to bash the person.

12:43

Just let it go. And that's embarrassing. I mean, I just remember

12:47

days where I was like, I don't want to go out of the house. I

12:49

don't want to go. But I just knew

12:53

also at the end of the day, am I following, Lord? I

12:57

just had to check in with myself. Like, all right, lord, am I following you?

13:00

Am I living in the truth?

13:04

I'm responsible for me and my actions. And where am

13:08

I at? What do I need to change? Let it fall

13:12

where it may especially have a high

13:15

justice personality. It's hard to let things go because you want to

13:19

fix it. Like, oh, wow, who said that? Well, I'm going to argue that

13:23

it's like, no, let God fight your battles and just sit back.

13:31

Fair enough. When you do have friends

13:35

that don't abandon. I'm going to use the word abandon. Because it sort of

13:39

feels it is an abandonment. It's an abandonment for whatever

13:42

reasons. They heard something, they don't want to be involved. It's too messy for

13:46

them. They don't know how to do it. They don't empathize well, whatever the reasons.

13:50

But when you do have that faithful friend who walks

13:53

through, oh, cherish

13:57

them. I got closer. I gained a

14:01

new friend. I've actually gained quite a bit of friends

14:04

past my divorce because my old

14:08

disappeared. I have too. Yeah. But I met a guy through it.

14:11

He's my counselor, but he's a friend now. And,

14:16

yeah, I cherish them because

14:20

they empathize well. And I cherish people

14:23

who don't throw Christianse at me. I think

14:27

you and I have talked about this before. I don't know, you may disagree with

14:30

me here. I say it's a concept of

14:34

cussing. I

14:37

really resonate with real and raw.

14:43

Something about finding somebody who speaks the truth.

14:46

They know how to love you in the mess and they're not full

14:50

of, well, God says this, don't be anxious. I hear you're anxious

14:54

right now. Don't be anxious. But people are like, oh, man, I get it,

14:57

that sucks, or whatever,

15:01

cuss. Because they're being honest

15:05

and real. We talk about, it's hard to use the word silver lining and the word divorce

15:13

at the same time, but I was able to weed out

15:17

people who really weren't my friends. I found out who my friends

15:20

were. Yeah. When you go through really hard times, you find out who your friends

15:24

are. I mean, I had a period before the divorce when I

15:27

was very sick, and I

15:31

learned very quickly who wanted. To walk that walk with you. Yeah. And

15:35

I was abandoned by so many people. Wow. So many

15:39

people. It's trauma. People like

15:42

their easy road. And when somebody goes through something, they're like, yeah, I don't want

15:45

to go through that. I'd say some people may have their trigger points. We don't

15:49

know what they've been through. Sure. And they're like, I don't own it. Okay,

15:53

fine, I get it. Right. But people talk with their

15:56

actions. Right? They may never tell you, hey, I'm going to quit being your friend.

16:00

They just don't pick up the phone. You don't get invited anymore.

16:04

Yeah. What a mess. What a mess.

16:09

Okay, so couple friends.

16:12

Normally you lose one, you lose both. But I was going to ask

16:16

you about being a woman. Do

16:19

you feel like. I think statistics

16:23

say that you have a different road to walk

16:27

than I do, and that is women

16:31

don't normally like a single woman around a couple

16:35

as much as I'm harmless. But

16:39

the statistics say women, whether they say it or not, they admit it. If you,

16:42

in a survey, they do that you are a threat

16:47

to the marriage or

16:50

you not imply, whatever that word is that you're a

16:54

model of. Like, well, she's single. Like, she's

16:57

available. Where before when you were married, you weren't available.

17:01

But yeah, it's an interesting deal where

17:05

people, I've read a lot of books and different surveys about it, but just.

17:08

As a books are written on this topic. Yes. Okay.

17:12

Because you're a new threat. Okay.

17:15

Why would I be a threat? It's a threat. Tell me about that. Well, one,

17:19

when you're, let's say your marriage is rocky. Okay. Okay.

17:23

And your friends who are married now are divorced,

17:27

well, you're showing a path of

17:31

one. Oh, I guess I could get a divorce. Like you're role

17:34

modeling something they may not want to deal with. And then

17:38

also you walk in a room and you are now

17:41

a single woman. You're not

17:45

Carrie. You're not Carrie, who I've known with the ring on her finger, who was

17:48

not a threat. You're married. You're available. If you're like, well, no, I don't want

17:52

you around my husband. And they may never think that it's a

17:55

subconscious that women feel more of a threat than men

17:59

do, at least according to the surveys. Never thought

18:03

about it ever. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. Did you ever

18:05

feel that, like, why don't get invited? I mean, have

18:09

I had the thought of, why don't I get invited? Sure. I mean, I never

18:13

thought of like, oh, well, it's maybe because they think. I'm a threat,

18:17

but it could be. Maybe. I don't know. But I've never thought about

18:21

it ever like that. It's funny. Before I read that,

18:24

because I read it, I studied this a little bit because

18:28

I actually feel like women I knew women who got invited on

18:32

vacations, like they were the third person. They're like, well, we're kind of

18:36

weird. Yeah, okay, that's weird. And they go swimming and they're like, yeah, they

18:39

always get invited. I'm like, well, I bet. So. But guy I don't know invites

18:43

me. I never got invited to. I was never invited as the

18:47

third anything, ever as a guy. But yet I know girls

18:51

are. I just haven't even walked down

18:54

into that situation at all. Interesting. Okay, well, that slides into

18:58

the second topic, and that is just tribing.

19:02

I feel like women tribe so much better.

19:06

So when we're talking about friendships, I think that sort of implies one on

19:10

one relationships. But tribing is the

19:13

girls night out. The Bible study group, the come

19:17

over for a glass of wine, the book club where nobody reads a book, they

19:20

just bring a bottle of wine. In my neighborhood, they actually go around

19:24

the table and ask, like, did you read the book? And then they make you

19:27

talk about it. So I left that one. You

19:31

all are here to just to drink wine. We literally have to read what we

19:34

did. That's funny. You're proven by

19:37

point. But guys, we don't have fake book

19:41

clubs. We don't have wine clubs. Should. I think that guys

19:44

shouldn't book clubs or wine clubs, but I think that men

19:48

should gather more, should be doing those things. And I

19:52

know that there is a trend and a drive, especially, like, in the christian community,

19:57

to be doing that and not in the christian community of, like, at church,

20:01

just men's Bible study. Yeah. I would say.

20:04

Well, yes, I would say, oh, boy, I

20:08

got a lot to say on this one. I would say when it comes to

20:11

churches, there is a push for men to

20:15

be men and get together or whatever. But I would also say there's an

20:19

assumption that we're all married. We're all

20:22

like, this is what, guys, we're going to have a Bible version, how to be

20:26

a better husband. And it's not for me. I'm

20:30

single. So there's an assumption that

20:34

you're a cookie cutter and we're going to talk to you in that way. Or

20:37

even dad hired how to be a better dad. And there's a 24 year old

20:40

and they're like, well, that ain't for me. I'm not a dad yet. Right, right.

20:43

And so I believe the church model is sort of broken, but I do believe

20:46

there's a push there. There. But I would say individually, like

20:49

men. Right. They go to their apartments, right? Yeah.

20:53

They're going to their apartments and they're by themselves and they go to the sports

20:56

bar by themselves. And they may have a buddy that they go do something

21:00

with once or whatever, but they don't tribe. I don't

21:03

see men in packs of four or five going and

21:07

doing stuff. And I hear you when you say, well, they should. Well,

21:11

yeah, okay, they should. But they're not. They're not. No, it's

21:15

true. Yeah. And so there's a lot of lonely, lonely men and when

21:18

you lose your friend, you lose your spouse. And this is why I try to

21:22

get men not to isolate because it's. Not good for a

21:26

man to be alone. It's not good for man to be alone. It's also like,

21:31

let's be honest, you numb when you don't have that social

21:35

interaction. You were built

21:39

for it, we're built for it. So

21:42

you numb, you can numb with

21:46

unhealthy relationships, alcohol,

21:49

pornography, you name it. Men numb because they're

21:53

like, well, what else am I supposed to do? And they feel alone

21:57

and whatever, and they don't get together and

22:01

it's really scary. I'm going to really take it on aside

22:04

here on this. I hope

22:08

nobody from old church talks to me. Anyway. They probably not listen to this. And

22:11

I'm not trying to pick on them, I'm just using them as an example. I'm

22:13

not going to say their name because 99% of the people listening will not know.

22:17

But they have this Tuesday morning thing with the men

22:21

and I don't know what it is because they're like, well, we pray. Well, we

22:24

Bible study. And we go around the room like, well, okay, but

22:28

is it a prayer? No, but they pray. Is it a Bible study?

22:31

Well, sort of. It's whatever book they're going through which has something to

22:35

do with the Bible. It's like, I don't know what it is, but the men

22:39

love it because they're like, well, it's men and we're men, and we're talking about

22:42

men things. I'm like, but I don't know what it is. I never really got

22:45

into it because I'm like, you're not talking about anything.

22:49

I'm dealing with x, y, and z, and I need somebody

22:53

I can talk to about x, y, and z.

22:57

And if I come to your men's, blah,

23:00

blah, we're going through the study of David and

23:04

we walk around like, well, my uncle's got heart surgery next week. Would

23:07

everybody pray for, this is not, this is not the iron

23:11

sharpening iron that we claim it is, right? Christians claim it is. They're

23:15

like, oh, this is men. Men. We're being men. I'm like, blow it

23:19

out your rear, dude. This is not it.

23:22

And I get frustrated and I actually feel like I'm

23:27

blessed because I do have men in my

23:30

life. There's only one group of us that three of us meet. The rest of

23:34

them are all one offs, and I love all the one offs. They're great. But

23:37

I still don't have the tribe

23:41

and I don't know how to get it. It doesn't fit

23:44

with married people because they don't get the tribe. They're married.

23:48

They have other responsibilities of being a husband first,

23:51

father next, whatever else they got going. And they're

23:55

doing that church crap. They are because it's the safe thing they're

23:59

allowed to go do. But people that are single like me, I

24:02

live a life that my married friends don't have a clue what I deal with.

24:06

Don't have a clue. Sure. And matter of fact, I'm

24:10

rambling, but a buddy of mine came to visit me from another

24:14

state and he's married.

24:17

And we were out having a pint

24:21

and some wings or whatever and I got

24:25

a phone call from my friend group, my new friend group, and they go,

24:28

hey, we're at this happy hour. You all want to come by? And I said,

24:31

hey, can you go? Will that put you in an awkward situation with wife? He

24:34

goes, no, I'll call her and tell her we're going. So we went, so anyway,

24:37

he got to hang out with us single people for about 2

24:41

hours. And we went to the car. I looked at it, I

24:45

go, how is that? Because I could just tell. Well, sure. Totally different

24:49

world. His eyes were totally different world. Jaw

24:52

dropped. He's like, you all live a world. I've

24:55

never considered what you all think

24:59

about, what you talk about, what you have to navigate,

25:02

never entered his mind. I'm like, yeah, that's my point. When I go to

25:06

church and you're talking about how to be a better dad and how

25:09

come unfold chairs this week, I'm like, I don't know what I

25:13

deal with. I have no idea what I go through

25:16

and I want that tribe of men.

25:21

It drives me nuts and I wish the church had it.

25:25

They don't. But I can see in a way kind of

25:29

why they don't. Because ideally in the church we're going to be married and stuff like that. So it's

25:36

not like they're like, hey, let's put together

25:39

these tribes for men that are again, single in their

25:43

50s. So I get it. I'm not saying that

25:47

you wanting that isn't valid. It totally is. It's just like

25:51

both are true. They are living in a world

25:55

where they romanticize families at an

25:59

unhealthy rate, according to the Bible. The Bible does not

26:03

scream family in a way that we do. We're

26:06

family first, family friendly family, family, family. The Bible is

26:09

like, we have men's group and women's group. The Bible's like,

26:13

99% of this is written to both of you all. I don't know why you

26:17

all are separating all this. It applies to both of you. Are

26:21

you men, are you all loving your neighbors? Women, are. You're loving your neighbors.

26:24

Well, why don't we just talk about loving our neighbors together? Why do

26:28

we have all this? You're right, though. I mean, it would be weird to be

26:31

in a men and women's Bible study. I've never done that before, but it's

26:35

so, well, true. Why shouldn't we?

26:39

Why do we act like the 1% like

26:43

children? Obey your parents. Let's have a whole children's section talking about obeying your

26:46

parents. That was the only thing they talked to them about. The rest of it

26:49

applies to all of us. Don't get me started.

26:53

This is my pet peeve of how we turn the Bible into

26:57

this self help book for ourselves. So, women, here's all the

27:01

things that apply to us. Proverbs 31 and

27:04

or whatever they all are. And it's like the Bible is

27:08

God's story, telling us his character,

27:12

his story of redemption, and we're supposed to be learning about

27:16

him. This isn't about us. And so

27:20

we do that, and then it permeates into our churches. Like, here's

27:24

how you can be a better father. Here's how you could be whatever. And there's

27:26

a guy here in town who's got a new book out about how you can

27:30

be abundant and a million. He literally puts out how you can be a Christian.

27:33

You could be a millionaire. Like, he's a pastor of a church. What makes you

27:36

think God wants you to be a millionaire? Are you

27:39

insane? Not saying he doesn't.

27:43

Just not saying he does. That's not what

27:47

that verse was about. Anyway, this just drives me nuts.

27:51

But I think the reason I'm frustrated because it affects

27:54

how we engage with one another and it affects our friendships.

27:58

And especially as a guy, I just think guys are

28:03

at a big disadvantage. Matter of fact, I think I told you this

28:07

before. My avatar of who I speak to on this

28:10

podcast is a woman in my back of my

28:13

brain, upper 30 woman, lives in Kansas. I think we talked

28:17

about that. But when I go look at my YouTube stats, men are

28:21

my big listeners. I just found this out. Yeah. You know

28:24

why? Because where are they going to get this? Well, hey, men,

28:28

go ahead and get. The phone over social media. Just saying

28:32

hi. Yeah, but it's true. I don't think we

28:36

have the systems in place. We certainly

28:40

don't have the traditions in place. I think it's part Christianity and part culture.

28:48

This idea that men, we pull ourselves up by the bootstrap, we tackle the

28:57

west, it's us versus the world kind of thing. And it's so

29:00

fun. Like, in other cultures, like, men hold hands in their

29:04

culture, we do it like, oh, my God, I would never do

29:07

that. Really? Why can't you be affectionate with a guy? It doesn't mean you love

29:11

him, doesn't mean you want to have sex with them, doesn't mean you're attracted to

29:13

them. But it's that bonding. We are so anti that

29:17

here, and it permeates into

29:20

relationships. And what you're able to. Are you

29:24

supposed to cry with somebody or are you going to wimp because you cried?

29:27

Yeah. Which goes back to what we were saying before. When you

29:31

find somebody that stuck by

29:35

you, appreciate them. I have people I can cuss around that

29:39

aren't judging me, that are hearing my pain,

29:42

and I have people that I can cry around and they're like, they'll cry

29:46

right back with you. And if you don't have one of

29:49

those, I don't want to be somebody. Like, if you don't have it, go get

29:52

it. Well, it's not that simple, but I am going to tell you, if you're

29:55

listening, you don't have that person in your life.

30:00

Pray about it. Pray that God will send you somebody

30:03

or look backwards and feel like maybe he did send you somebody

30:07

and for whatever reason, you didn't cultivate it,

30:11

because maybe you didn't like what they told you or they did you wrong once

30:15

or something and you pulled it against them. But maybe you do have that somebody

30:18

in your life who does truly love you, and they're imperfect, they're going to mess

30:22

up. But do you need to forgive? Do you need to restore? Do

30:26

you need to go backwards? I know that I actually had

30:30

a guy who was divorced. He told me his divorce story, and I

30:34

empathized with. I was married at the time, and then now that I'm divorced, I

30:38

had to go back and apologize to like, man, I was a really

30:41

shitty friend to you. I never

30:45

thought what you went through. And then now you saw me go through

30:48

it and you were right there with me and I'm sorry I wasn't with you.

30:52

Yeah, that's hard to say, but it was true.

30:56

Wow. Okay, so

31:01

how do you grade? Is it okay to walk away from an

31:04

unhealthy friendship? Besides us being

31:08

abandoned sometimes? I'd also think we run into situations

31:11

that once we're coming out of divorce, we may find people that

31:15

aren't good. They're not good people to be friends with or

31:18

get. Sure, they're hitting you with horrible

31:22

advice. They're not healthy to hang around.

31:25

They're trying to get you to go do stupid stuff to numb because

31:29

that's how they did it. But did you ever have to walk away from anybody

31:33

versus being after my divorce? Yeah.

31:37

Or did you really? You got abandoned by everybody. There's

31:40

nobody left. Fair enough. Left with a couple of

31:44

people and just kind of run with them. And then more people

31:48

have come into my life. Yeah. So I have a lot of

31:51

newer friendships or even friendships from, like I have a friend

31:55

from high school and we reconnected and she and I get together all

31:59

the time and another friend that I'd met 15 years ago just kind of

32:03

randomly and we reconnected when I came back to Texas. And

32:06

she's one of my closest friends. So it's kind of, yeah, I

32:10

like. I just

32:15

back to the ripple effects of divorce. I just want

32:18

people to know that they're not alone and they're losing their

32:22

friends. I think some people feel like their situation is the only one.

32:26

And I'm always like, look out that window. There's 10,000

32:30

people who have the same thing that you're going through.

32:33

Right. And it is a normal, I hate

32:37

to say it, it's normal for you to lose friends after a

32:41

divorce. It's normal to feel extra betrayed

32:45

and it's just something that you have to live with.

32:48

Navigate. And once again, don't burn bridges. Who

32:51

knows who comes back, like in your case, with an

32:55

apology. Sure. And you don't have to try to win them over. You don't have

32:59

to bash your ex along the way. But making wise

33:05

friends, I think once again, once you're going through trauma, I think you're just so

33:08

much. You should be wiser of who you let in.

33:12

Totally. Yeah, totally. And I let in. I

33:16

think I've already said I let in real raw people. Now

33:20

if I smell, this is horrible what I'm going to

33:24

say. If I smell Pharisee or

33:27

phariseeical behavior, I'm out. I'm

33:31

to the point now, of course, I say I got long hair, I got tattoos

33:34

now, and I'm a conservative christian, but

33:38

my theology is conservative. My

33:42

playing the christian game days are over.

33:47

If I walk up and there's a guy wearing a three piece suit and he's

33:51

telling me we're going to chickfila. Because we're not going to go to so and

33:53

so because there's a bar in it. Get out of my face. Like, I don't want that level of

34:00

Christianity. Does that make sense? Or does that come across really crabby?

34:05

Be honest with you. No, I mean, the whole three piece

34:08

suit. Don't go to a bar. I mean, that's so old school. I guess it

34:12

still happens. Oh, it still happens, but I haven't really experienced

34:16

that. It depends. I grew up in the Bible belt. I did, too. Yeah. So

34:19

I remember that. I remember that back in the day of like, oh, my gosh,

34:23

if you have tattoos now, I laugh at that. I think that's funny,

34:26

right? There's still just. Well, let's put it this

34:30

way. I've had people tell me I'm

34:34

paraphrasing, but I wish I could do what

34:38

you do. Like this idea, not giving

34:41

a crap what people think. So even though they may not judge

34:45

as much as maybe they did 2030 years ago, they still won't do it

34:49

themselves. They won't do it themselves. I see. Because they're

34:53

like, well, okay, I'm more tolerant of you, but there's no

34:56

way. Is that tolerance, though. I think it should just be. I don't like the

35:00

word tolerance, but anyway. Yeah, well, okay. Well,

35:04

before you would get the scarlet letter, when we still do it with the divorce

35:08

stuff, we still have the scarlet letter effect, for whatever

35:12

reason, you got pregnant before you were married.

35:15

All the little things that we judge people on.

35:20

But this idea of, like, I don't want to play the game. In fact,

35:24

the cussing, to me, to me, that's a metaphor.

35:27

I'm being literal and metaphorical with the cussing. To me, it

35:31

is the far right, I guess, would

35:35

be like, well, let no unclean word come out of your mouth.

35:38

And it's very literal. Why they totally violate

35:42

the fourth commandment of taking the Lord's name in vain without. They'll think it means

35:46

don't say GD. But it means something different. This idea of like,

35:50

well, we're just going to pretend we don't cuss. And you can cuss in your

35:53

mind, you can say whatever, but don't cuss because

35:57

that's not good. And I'm like, when

36:01

I cuss, 90% of the time, I do it to Jesus right there. He's

36:05

not up there. Like these words. You can say that word, that's bad, but this

36:08

one's good. I'm being real. I'm being honest. I think

36:12

the intention of your heart really matters. Intention of your heart, not the rules. So

36:16

I just don't like the roles anymore. God doesn't care

36:20

about your hair. He doesn't care. Did you go see that movie? And you

36:23

didn't go see that movie again? It's the heart. It's

36:27

the heart. It's the heart. And so I gravitate

36:31

to people who see past it all and they're just real and

36:34

raw and that they

36:39

aren't pushing you, the agenda, how you

36:42

vote, even that's another issue. But I think it

36:46

fits right here is I literally have friends who believe if

36:50

you love Jesus, there is absolutely

36:54

no way you can vote for Donald Trump. And then I have people who are

36:58

Christians, love the Lord, and they're like, there's, how could you vote for Joe

37:01

Biden? How you can't be a Christian and vote for Joe Biden? And I'm

37:05

like, well, they both think they're right. They both think they're right

37:09

because of different mindsets. And my deal is like, can

37:12

we just be in the middle? Like, how about they're both idiots? Is that

37:16

like, they both suck for various reasons and they both have some good

37:20

qualities for various reasons. I just don't like playing

37:23

the line, the christian line of, if you're a Christian, here's how

37:27

you should behave. I don't like that. So anyway, I don't know how I got

37:31

off on the tangent. Other than post divorce, I've become

37:35

very picky. Who I let in or how far I let them

37:38

in. Maybe wise, a better

37:42

word. Maybe wise. Yeah. Think picky sounds a

37:45

little, well, maybe. A little judgmental and maybe

37:50

right. Maybe on something with that facts.

37:53

But I guess you said to challenge you. They are challenging

37:57

me, but yeah, I just gravitate to real. And that's

38:01

back to the reset is I wouldn't have the friends I have

38:05

now had I not been divorced. Not

38:08

saying God wanted it, but on this side of it,

38:12

I met some really great people, and

38:16

it's been wonderful. So I want to finish with this because I

38:20

think it ties in right here. But

38:23

coed friendships, that

38:26

slippery slope. We both say that it's not wise to

38:30

date too early post divorce because you're not ready. Right. Or

38:33

whatever. What is your

38:36

experience and or advice

38:40

of coed friendships and how to navigate

38:44

them? That is such a big topic. It's a huge topic.

38:48

Do I have some friends that are guys that

38:52

I am regularly in contact with that I'm really good friends with?

38:55

Yes. Okay. So there's that

39:02

I think that what's wrong with having friends

39:06

that are men and women when they're single, right? I would

39:09

say, yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's good. I think

39:13

it can be really healthy for me, honestly, it's

39:16

been very helpful, very healing, because I've been able to

39:20

build friendships with some men that have shown me that they are

39:24

kind, that. All men aren't what

39:28

your ex are. And you wouldn't know that if you. I wouldn't know that with

39:31

those people. Right. They're kind, they are forgiving,

39:36

they're not easily angered, just stuff like

39:39

that. I think it's been incredibly healing for

39:43

me. Wonderfully healing. I would totally agree with that.

39:47

I think that, yeah, you do have to be aware that

39:51

usually one person's probably going to start to maybe have feelings

39:55

for the other. I mean, there's always that factor. Maybe, but. So you have to

39:58

be aware facts. But I think that

40:02

it can be great now. I think that it can be a

40:05

little tricky. And I think you just have to be aware. I know that I

40:09

have some guys in my life that I'm really good friends with. And I know

40:13

that one day, hopefully I find somebody that I am in

40:16

a serious relationship with that's headed in towards marriage. Well, then will those friendships kind

40:20

of have to change? Yeah, I think so. They will totally

40:24

agree. But I know that and I'm willing. To

40:27

like, but you go in knowing, which

40:31

only lets those go so deep, which I'm okay with,

40:35

that some people wouldn't. Some people are on the other fence of it. They were

40:38

like, that's unhealthy. You should date with intention. And guys,

40:42

girls, you go sit on the manner. Why can't both be

40:45

true? Why can't you date with intention and still have opposite sex friends?

40:49

Yeah, but I think that if you start dating somebody

40:53

and then you're in a committed relationship, then I think that your

40:56

opposite sex friendships, that dynamic does need to

41:00

change. I agree. And here's how I've worded it. I've actually

41:04

had this conversation with a really good girlfriend of mine, and I told

41:08

her that I go, I assume that if you ever get

41:11

married or in a serious relationship, or I do that,

41:15

I go, here's how I think it'll play out. We introduce. We all go

41:19

out to dinner. If they like you, right. And if they want to

41:22

be around you, you get to be around. But if they don't, then I got

41:26

to say bye. Right. Because I'm not going to do that. To

41:30

my ex, I've heard people say, buy a new person

41:33

better, like my friends because they're my friends. I thought,

41:37

that's not healthy. Now that's very selfish. It's very selfish. And then

41:41

you're limiting your partner to say, well, they don't like him. Then I don't

41:45

like you. It's like, that's not a selfless

41:49

relationship. When you're never going to be able to have a good, strong, committed

41:53

relationship. Because you're putting people in a box. I know,

41:56

right? We're full of that. Yeah.

42:00

Coed has been great for me, too. Partially for what you

42:03

said is that I've met people who aren't like my wife. And so I was

42:07

like, oh, okay, well, this is some good traits. And I think every person

42:10

I meet, I'm going to use the word every, but let's call it

42:14

90 something percent. Most everybody I meet, I

42:18

find a great quality in that. I would say, oh, I like that quality. Like,

42:21

that's some check. They're really good at

42:25

x. And so it helps me put together

42:29

this person. Like, yeah, there are people who have this and you're just saying, okay,

42:32

well, I'd like to find somebody as that and that. And that's

42:36

when I look up. Sometimes you're too picky. Like, there is no

42:40

person that's going to have. That person's the best, plus that person's best

42:43

with that. But it has been nice just to

42:47

have deep conversations with people that it doesn't work with

42:50

guys and guys and girls. And girls do not have the same conversation that

42:54

guys and girls have. True. And it's wonderful.

42:58

Yeah. And I love

43:01

theological conversations between the opposite sex because

43:05

they're intense. I've enjoyed ours because you have a

43:09

very feminine lens. Is that a way to say that? Thank you.

43:13

Yeah, you do take that as. I think it is a compliment. It's a

43:16

feminine lens on how you see

43:20

relationships and your part in that. And I'm

43:24

not trying to get into submissive and whatever all that. I'm trying to get into

43:31

gender. God's wired me this

43:35

way and I'm looking for a guy wired this way.

43:40

I think we'll get into that when we talk about relationships because I think

43:43

that's something that's broken with divorce is this

43:47

independence and who has to give it up first. And

43:51

it's really hard. But that's another topic for another

43:54

topic. Okay, we'll end this with

43:58

you're going to lose friends. It's going to suck.

44:03

You will most likely make new friends. And now

44:06

be wiser in choosing who they are.

44:10

And hug that dang person who walked. With you through your,

44:14

oh, 100%. Hug them, take them to dinner, and let them know

44:18

how much you appreciate them because their bible says

44:22

they're worth gold and silver and a bunch of other stuff,

44:26

too. All right, thank you very much. Thank you.