0:00

To support the Unyoked podcast and to help others. Please

0:03

subscribe and rate right now. And if this resource is helpful,

0:07

please tell a friend. Now let's get started.

0:13

The Unyoke podcast navigating the pain,

0:17

process and possibilities after a christian

0:20

divorce. You let's talk about a taboo topic you

0:29

will never hear from the pulpit or from the mouth of most

0:32

preachers. The topic sex and the single

0:36

christian post divorce. You know you might hear from

0:40

most. God says no. Next topic, please.

0:43

But this is layered and we're going to dive into the sometimes

0:47

messy but authentic levels of this

0:50

topic. We can't get into this without some ground

0:54

rules. Why? Because every one of you listening,

0:58

yes, you have on different lenses,

1:00

assumptions, beliefs, practices,

1:04

teaching influences the american

1:07

christian cultural lens that we all have different ones.

1:11

Many of you have made your mind up, many of you

1:14

struggle, and many of you who don't even really consider what God

1:18

has to say about this topic, you sort of live with the head

1:22

in the sand, and many of you just live and manage your life

1:26

without thinking of the truth or consequences or

1:29

even maybe highly value wise biblical lens

1:33

decisions. And some of you have just found your comfort

1:37

zone around this topic and you want to leave it that way. We all

1:41

have so many different perspectives, so how are we going to

1:44

navigate this? Well, let's start with a lens we

1:48

must have on before we get started. Truth

1:52

and grace. The tension. We've talked about this in different episodes,

1:56

this idea that truth and grace. Like the

2:00

coin, Jesus is the only person who walked

2:04

both sides perfectly. We, you and

2:07

I, our institutions, our churches, we lean

2:11

to one side or the other, but not just once. On various

2:14

topics. If you're good at something, you look through

2:18

the truth lens and you sort of shame anybody who doesn't have that right.

2:22

But when it's your sin, it's a lot easier to look from the gray side

2:25

and you don't like to hear the truth side. Jesus walks in the middle

2:29

perfectly. And I'm going to pull this for those of you who

2:33

have the benefit of looking this coin, we're

2:36

going to widen it. It's a thick coin. We live in the middle,

2:40

and we're going to talk about the middle between truth and

2:44

grace. If you only look at issues from one side or the other, it is

2:47

very dangerous. This podcast has always

2:51

been about those living in this post divorce vortex,

2:54

living in the milestones in the reality of

2:58

post marriage. It's not a christian

3:02

podcast in the terms of we're going to teach theology about marriage

3:05

and divorce. If so I would just go ahead and throw some truth out,

3:09

some verses, and we would just move on. But we're not going to do that.

3:13

So remember how at the very beginning of this podcast, I

3:17

said that I wanted this to be like when you're pregnant, the

3:21

book, what to expect when you're expecting. Well, I

3:24

want to identify the milestones post divorce

3:28

that you're going to go through. And sex is one of

3:32

the major milestones, and we're not going to avoid it. I've had people try to

3:36

ask me, why are you doing this? I thought, well, I'm doing it because I

3:39

made a commitment to talk about the tough stuff after divorce,

3:43

and this is one of them. And what I'm not going to allow us to

3:46

do is what I call t shirt theology, and that is

3:50

just throw a verse, throw a saying on top of something that's

3:54

very complex. We do this a lot with teenagers about

3:57

sex, right? Just don't do it.

4:01

Genesis one and two. Don't. How about that? We'll leave it there,

4:05

and then we do it with drugs and addicts. Like, well, just

4:08

say no. Okay, well, I'm a heroin addict. Well, it doesn't matter. Just say no.

4:12

Well, it's a little more complicated. And we do this with

4:16

the fringes, the far right and the far left, with debates

4:20

on homosexuality and abortion. We do the exact same

4:24

thing. So let's get into the weeds of that for a second.

4:27

So the edge, the true side says

4:31

abortion is wrong. The gray side says, well,

4:34

it's a woman's body, it's her choice. And a lot of

4:38

people argue from here with a lot of details in the middle. And I'm going

4:42

to give you an example. I don't know a person

4:46

who, if they had a 14 year old daughter who was gang raped,

4:49

if they rushed into the emergency room and the doctor said, we

4:53

gave her a pill, none of this is going to take, she's going to be

4:56

all right. Thank God. Thank God that that

5:00

happened, that we were able to save her from not getting pregnant. And then on

5:04

the other side, I don't know too many people who would say, well, it's a

5:07

woman's body, it's a woman's choice, but you can wait till eight months and

5:11

29 days, and then you can terminate that pregnancy. I don't think most people,

5:15

98% of the people would not agree with that statement, and 98%

5:18

of the people would say, yeah, I'll take that morning after pill on

5:22

a rate. Right. Well, if we work from where we normally

5:26

work from. We don't even get to talk about those little details. Well, we're going

5:29

to do that with sex because there's a lot of details in the middle, in

5:33

this middle ground that is not as simple as,

5:37

well, if it feels good, you can do it. And I don't care what the

5:39

Bible says, and then absolutely, 100% not.

5:43

Why are we even talking about it? Does that make sense?

5:47

So why am I doing this? Well, I've never shied away from

5:51

hard, so here we go. Let's jump in. So I'm going to ask a

5:55

couple of things of you. If you're not post divorce, if you're

5:58

not been unyoked and you're just listening in, this is like

6:02

sitting in on an AA meeting, right? If

6:06

you're not an addict, throwing verses and throwing

6:09

theology at people, going through stuff is just not

6:12

helpful. This isn't a place where God says, that's wrong.

6:16

Stop, you big sinner. This is not that.

6:20

And if you're like me and you're navigating life post

6:24

unyoking and you're wanting to wade into the deep end of

6:28

a topic that you're navigating, I want you to listen,

6:31

to ponder, consider, reflect on

6:35

this complex issue in a safe place. I'm

6:39

not saying ignore truth. I'm saying let's talk about

6:42

an issue at different levels, and let's

6:46

don't ignore it because we're worried about the american christian culture

6:50

and what they're going to think about you. Or remember the grace episode we

6:54

talked about, the hand me your list christians? We're not worried about them.

6:58

This is a safe place for this conversation. So at the recording of

7:02

this podcast, I've been single about five and a half

7:05

years. Due to my location, my

7:08

personality, my career, this podcast, and my

7:12

dating, I have literally talked with hundreds

7:16

of christian single divorcees.

7:19

It's not an exaggeration that

7:22

99% of every Christian I've interacted

7:25

with is or will be having

7:29

sex pre their next marriage. It's not

7:33

50%, it's 99%. I

7:36

have only met two or three people who said they weren't going

7:40

to have sex until they're married again. And then when I dug,

7:44

two of them actually said, well, once I know that's

7:48

my person and I'm engaged, I probably will, just in case.

7:52

Right? I mean, I was following a christian

7:56

singles social media account the other day, and they actually

7:59

posted this meme and it said life is too short for bad

8:03

relationships and bad sex. And I just thought, how interesting. On a

8:07

christian site, they would put that, and it's

8:10

this mindset that we're going to wade through because

8:14

post trauma, many people just want to feel joy, they want to

8:18

feel good, they want normalcy, which we can

8:21

define that in various ways, but for those of you listening in

8:25

to judge or wondering what's what on this

8:30

sex is happening, just no one's talking about it.

8:34

Once again, we preach genesis one and two and we don't talk about the broken

8:38

world side of it. And it is happening and we're going to dig into the

8:41

middle of it. I think many pastors,

8:45

christians think teenagers, divorcees, maybe

8:49

widows, just need to read their bibles and go to bed at

8:52

ten. We get told date Jesus, but

8:56

they ignore, especially for us divorces and widows, the fact

9:00

that we've already had sex. We know how it works,

9:03

we're familiar with it, we like it, we enjoy it,

9:07

we think about it, we want it. Christian

9:11

singles post divorce are having sex and these are the

9:14

facts. And it's sort of funny, it's like to that group,

9:18

what do they think we do?

9:22

We're going to get graphic here for a second. Some might say

9:26

maybe, just maybe you can masturbate. But some of

9:30

you would be like, oh no, masturbation is a total sin. Why would you

9:34

do that? And some would say, well, it depends. And what

9:38

were you thinking about? What did you use to do it? I've

9:41

got in this debate with christians, if you're married and you're on a month

9:45

mission, I'll call it a mission trip, a business trip,

9:49

can you masturbate from afar though you're married? What if you were thinking

9:52

about her and it's a complex topic

9:56

but I find it interesting because the attitude seems to

10:00

be, well, it's better than sex.

10:04

If you got to do it, that's better than sex because that would

10:08

be the worst thing you could do is have sex. And then

10:11

that gets into the question, what is sex?

10:15

Kissing, petting, touching,

10:18

oral, actual intercourse. Right. It sounds like the

10:21

question for a teenage youth group. Right? Like that question comes up all the

10:25

time, where are your boundaries? How far can you go? What's prudent?

10:29

All the things we talk to kids about. Well, now when you're in your twenty

10:33

s, thirty s, forty s, fifty s, sixty s, no one's having

10:36

that speech anymore, right? I know people who

10:40

kiss on the first date and I know people who hold off till date

10:44

three or even date ten. And I know people sort

10:47

of make up their own lines and as typical and judgmental as we

10:51

get, we look down on somebody who thinks different than

10:55

us. I know people who kiss on the first date because their argument is,

10:59

I want to know right now, do we vibe? Why would we go any

11:02

further if we don't? Well, then that begs the second question is

11:06

like, well, if kissing is important and you want to vibe

11:09

there, if I don't want to marry a bad kisser, why would

11:13

I marry somebody who's bad in bed or not compatible with me? That's

11:17

sometimes the logic. So let's get back to Genesis one and two, right?

11:21

We're going to bring some truth in now. We're going to take a little

11:24

rabbit trail right here. Marriage

11:28

is sex, and sex is marriage. Adam and Eve

11:32

did not get married with the ceremony. They had no rings. They didn't

11:35

go down to the local judge. They didn't do the honeymoon. They didn't do

11:39

anything like we think of as a marriage. Right? It

11:43

was their sex that was the consummation of the

11:46

marriage. That's the way God intended it. You're married

11:50

at sex, not at the sheet of paper. The sheet of paper and the

11:54

ceremony mean nothing. So if that's true,

11:57

I want to just talk about our hypocrisy. Many of you listening

12:01

right now, judging and rolling your eyes. Maybe

12:05

don't throw your first stone yet. Right. Your current marriage statistics

12:09

say most people have had sex before you've

12:12

been married. So you've had sex before that piece of paper. Does God

12:16

see you and that girl in the 10th grade or that guy as your

12:20

husband? Well, I mean, technically, that is

12:24

correct, because sex is marriage. God's not

12:27

waiting for the state of Alabama to sign a sheet of paper before he

12:31

considers you married. Right? It's complicated. So

12:35

we as divorced people have had sex probably before

12:38

marriage, during marriage, and post

12:41

marriage. Right? Like, what is the theology

12:45

with that? We're not naive teenagers, and

12:49

so how are we supposed to act now? Once again, we live in a genesis

12:53

three world. It's with broken people, broken marriages

12:56

and situations. Sorry, I'm preaching a little bit. Here's what's very frustrating.

13:04

And actually, it's actually very nice that God

13:07

is so smart. He leaves certain things alone

13:11

that we just dig on. Like, the Bible is this big, and

13:15

sometimes there'll be a verse or two and we just camp on them. But when

13:18

you look at the totality of scripture, it's like God didn't make a big deal

13:21

about that. I'm going to give you example. Sometimes church, like, you need to come

13:25

to church. Bible tells you to come to church. And God's like, well, I

13:29

know when there's going to be this big plague. And in 1682,

13:32

this isn't going to work in that country. And not everybody's going to meet in

13:36

30 a.m. On a Sunday. So he says, don't

13:40

forsake the meeting of the brethren. He left it vague because he

13:43

understands there's messes. Well, right

13:46

now, once again, we think like Americans right

13:50

now, there are women. I know some that live in

13:54

Africa, and it's all over the world. They are in

13:57

prostitution. And they can be believers. It's the only way they can feed

14:01

their kids. That's what they do.

14:05

And there's rape, and there's just all kind

14:08

of. Perversion is the word I'm going to use with

14:12

sex. And God knows the issues are complex. He spends

14:16

little time on cultural stuff, right? Does that make sense? He stays

14:19

high on this. So here's another example

14:23

we like from our truth side and our grace side.

14:27

We Christians are really big. There's only two genders. Well,

14:31

Genesis one and two, there sure was Adam and Eve. But we live in a

14:34

broken world, and there are literally people born with both

14:37

genitalia or neither in this world. And what

14:41

do we do with those people besides sit over here and say, that's impossible? According

14:45

to my theology, that's impossible. But it's reality

14:49

in the middle. In this broken world, there are some

14:53

horrible things going on in tough situations, and if

14:57

we just throw our truth logic at them,

15:00

really dangerous. Right? Life is

15:04

messier than the t shirt theology. And the one verse

15:07

answers, it just is. In this broken world,

15:11

are divorces and widows supposed to marry somebody on their second

15:15

or third marriage or whatever without knowing if their partner has any

15:19

sexual issues? Do their parts work? Are they good in

15:22

bed? Do we have the same sex drive and desires?

15:26

Why would we have to live with whatever happens? We just can't

15:30

do that. We're grown, rational, experienced

15:34

adults who've been through a lot of trauma and walls.

15:38

The Bible just doesn't speak much at all about

15:41

post marriage. It just doesn't. We

15:45

have no parents to go back to. The Bible says, you leave your

15:48

parents, you cleave. We don't have any kids to make. Some of

15:52

us, at some age, we're post raising a

15:55

family. We left our families. Are we supposed to go back to them?

16:21

No, it's impossible. We live in a broken world. We

16:25

have no families to return to. What are we supposed to do?

16:28

So let's take

16:32

a quick break. Are you facing the challenging

16:36

crossroads of Divorce? I bet you know of someone who is. Well, now

16:39

there's a resource for your shelf. Maybe for you, maybe for a friend.

16:43

Unyoked choices the Christian Handbook for divorce decisions, a

16:47

book for those in need. Buy one for you or for a

16:50

friend? Navigate the divorce decision and the execution of unyoking

16:54

with wisdom, strength, and confidence. Available now in paperback

16:58

and kindle only 899. Order your copy today. Visit

17:02

toddturner.com books. Unyoked choices because

17:05

these decisions matter with this lens. By the way, I'm speaking a little bit in third person here.

17:14

I'm not trying to make a point yet. I'm just throwing out a lot of

17:17

thoughts. But sometimes singles will have

17:21

sex out of wedlock, partly for

17:24

compatibility research. Right? It's like, do we vibe?

17:28

Do we fit? Do we have good chemistry? People want to

17:31

know. But once again, back to this

17:35

idea. People live and move along a line from

17:38

sex whenever I want to. Absolutely not.

17:42

Or maybe if I'm comfortable with this

17:46

person, or maybe I'm testing the waters. There's just

17:50

multiple places in this journey that

17:54

we're on. So when in your relationship, how do you

17:57

build it and deepen it? And there's a part in this line

18:01

that's, well, we're two consenting adults. We're not really testing

18:04

marriage. It feels good. We agree. We

18:08

both walk away happy. Who does it hurt? And then there's the, oops, one

18:12

too many glasses of wine moment. Didn't mean to do that. But it did it.

18:16

And there's that varying line between the sin of a mistake

18:19

and a lifestyle of sinning. But then in the

18:23

lifestyle, what if you don't have guilt about it? Because as Christians,

18:26

our theology is like, well, the Lord's going to lay it on your heart and

18:29

you're going to feel guilty. Not everybody does. Trust me. I'll talk about

18:32

that in a second. I'm a backtrack a little

18:36

bit. But here is a case where it's hard for

18:40

christian believers who are married

18:44

to think outside their covenant. They're in a covenant.

18:48

We're not in that same covenant. We're outside of it. We

18:51

were in one and we're out of it. And we think differently.

18:55

And when you're in a covenant, you're worried about, well, I shouldn't look at

18:59

that or do that or even put myself in a weird like.

19:03

But you can be in a weird position because you don't have a

19:06

wife that you're worried about. You don't have a husband that you're worried about. And

19:10

so it's a little more complicated. My counselor one time asked

19:14

me, I'm going to be a little transparent here. He's like, okay, Tod, so

19:18

how do you decide when or if you have, you know,

19:21

I told, said, you know, here's how it's happened in the

19:25

past. And I honestly don't feel guilty about some of

19:29

this stuff at then

19:33

our theology would scream, the Holy Spirit will

19:36

convict you. But what if there's no

19:40

conviction? Right? And so you can't. Well, some of you would say, well, you're not

19:43

a serious Christian or even a real Christian if you don't have it. Well, I'm

19:46

like, well, I hate to tell you, brother, but I am. And the

19:49

guilt doesn't always come. It really doesn't.

19:52

And I wouldn't say I have peace, but I've had peace.

19:56

So we'll get into that here in a second. So once again, what is

20:00

sex? Not defining it? Is it kissing? Is it

20:04

grabbing or whatever? But I say that to you, the listener

20:08

for you, or who are dealing with this, what defines it?

20:11

What is it to you? Why does it feel good to

20:15

you? Have you really deep dove into it?

20:19

Instead of just saying, this is my numbing,

20:23

this is what I'm going to do. I have my own

20:26

lines, but this is how I'm going to live.

20:29

Have you really thought about it? Have you been in therapy? Have

20:33

you unpacked that? Because I certainly have. I still

20:37

am. I still journey through this with

20:40

deep discussions because I have not landed the

20:44

plane. I mean, I still miss it. I still crave

20:48

it. It is bonding. Sometimes it can be

20:51

just transactional. Isn't it weird how God

20:55

knows things so far in advance? I was walking around,

20:59

I'm going to call it a year or two ago, and I just had a

21:03

pep in my step. I had a glow. And a person

21:06

I know looked at me and was like, man, you were in a mood.

21:10

And I literally remembered that I had had

21:14

sex the day before. And I was like,

21:18

it felt great. But you know why? Endorphins. It was

21:21

feeling cherished and important. All the things we're

21:25

not getting to the weeds of it. But there was true, the

21:28

physicality of it was mood altering.

21:32

And the thought of like, no, you can't do that was like, oh, my

21:36

goodness, it was wonderful. And I

21:40

can't pretend it wasn't. I can't pretend I went home and

21:43

shaved my head and gnashed my teeth and put

21:47

on some sackclock I did not. Right. It just

21:50

feels funny that we're supposed to pretend we're a

21:54

14 year old girl living thousands of years ago and we don't know anything about

21:58

sex. It's just not true. But once

22:02

again, isn't there a difference between group sex for fun,

22:05

doing whatever I want, when I want, and being in a relationship

22:09

with someone in discovery and bonding mode? There

22:13

are just different places along the line here. I've said

22:17

this multiple times on this podcast. Thoughts disentangle

22:20

themselves over the lips and through the fingertips when you talk

22:24

things out. When you write, you really can get to the bottom

22:27

of garbled thoughts. And I think when it comes

22:31

to sex, many of us just already have landed

22:35

the plane, or we're in the ping pong of it,

22:39

of not knowing where we draw our lines. And do we

22:42

feel guilty or do you not feel guilty? Then? Is your

22:46

theology wrong? Is the holy spirit holding back

22:50

of laying that on you? And there's just some logic here. I

22:54

know when it comes to the Bible logic, even though God owns

22:57

it, but there's some things that God's like, yeah, you just have to trust me

23:00

on this. Well, I know couples who have waited to have

23:04

sex, and they had horrible marriages,

23:07

and I know people who didn't wait. They had plenty of premarital

23:11

sex, and they've been married for 40 years, and it's all good. They have great

23:15

lives. So where does this idea come from that you're going to be

23:19

blessed if you wait and you're going to have a horrible

23:22

marriage if you don't? Right. We're going to danger dive

23:26

into that. I know couples who have

23:30

sex with their ex, meaning they're divorced,

23:33

but for some reason, they have a

23:37

comfort that they can still have sex with that person versus somebody

23:40

new, because they're like, well, we're not married, but we are in God's eyes, and

23:44

I'd rather just have my sex there. And they navigate it that way. That's

23:47

their logic. And as I said before,

23:51

numbing post divorce is a real thing.

23:54

Sitting in your bed, sleeping, alcohol, you become

23:58

an adrenaline junkie. Porn, sex,

24:02

a lot of numbing that goes on. And when you're

24:05

depressed, feeling good and being

24:09

cherished feels so good. But

24:13

let's don't forget the personalities. Men are microwaves. Women are

24:17

crock pots. It gets complicated with how sex works.

24:20

Right? So that's a lot of unloading of thoughts and

24:24

identifying the different scenarios that are along the way. Post

24:27

divorce christians having sex along

24:31

the gamut of all the possibilities. But what

24:35

got us here, what causes different

24:39

lenses that christians have about sex outside of

24:43

marriage? Where did it come from? Well, let's get back to

24:46

that american christian culture. I'm going to call it the purity

24:50

culture, a big push that a lot of us grew up in.

24:53

It's the lens that many christian pastors took.

24:57

And there's up on stage speaking on God's truth and

25:00

theology, and they got it from some books.

25:05

Oddly, the guy who really started this movement isn't even a

25:08

Christian anymore. By the way, I'm going to name names, but

25:12

it's a complicated topic. Many of us are

25:15

damaged by over the top unhealthy

25:18

teaching of purity culture. The boys were taught

25:22

on lust, masturbation and porn. They pulled

25:26

us into a room. That's what we were taught about girls. You

25:30

were taught about modesty, virginity, and being a

25:33

treasure. Not so much on women and lust.

25:37

Women are sort of made feel guilty if they had a sex drive. Like the

25:41

men's are the ones had that sex drive. The women's are the ones had to

25:44

protect themselves and help us. You don't

25:48

dress that way so he won't get turned on. It

25:52

dehumanizes women. Your worth is way

25:55

more than your sexual function and your

25:59

virginity. You know what your greatest gift is?

26:03

It's not virginity that is disproportional

26:06

teaching. It really is. I mean, God

26:10

did not sit here and spend chapters and chapters on

26:14

this. There's way more topics that matter than that.

26:17

Virginity and how you're

26:20

holy. Your sexual

26:24

function does not score very high at

26:27

all. And men, our problem with this was self control.

26:31

Like, oh, you just can't. You're an animal and

26:36

you've got to run away and you got to shut your eyes. And now we've

26:39

made women think that boys will be boys. You all can't help

26:43

yourself. And this comes into self fulfilling prophecy. By the way, if

26:47

you're given a green light now, you're fighting your whole life against

26:50

this idea that what even God sanctioned in the first

26:54

place, right? Men, you have a holy spirit in you, like women

26:58

do. You're not an animal. You can say, no,

27:01

we're not built that different when it comes to this.

27:05

Some of these best selling books, every man's battle,

27:09

the kissing, dating, goodbye, wild at heart. These are

27:13

all books that have this purity culture embedded within

27:17

it. And it was echoed in the pulpits, private

27:20

schools, small groups, church camp,

27:24

mentoring. It leads to really unhealthy views.

27:28

Sex is not the big elephant in the room for

27:31

christians, fruits of the spirit. God's

27:34

commandment. Love God, love your neighbors. Mercy to the

27:38

poor and to the widows. These are screamed in

27:41

scriptures. This other stuff are outright

27:44

lies. And you know what it does? It smells a

27:48

lot like the prosperity gospel, right? It is.

27:52

If you do this, your marriage is going to be

27:55

wonderful. You are going to have the best sex life ever. You say

27:59

no to premarital sex and you wait till you're a virgin. Your life is going

28:02

to be great. Wrong. Not necessarily right, not necessarily

28:06

wrong, but it is wrong to make that promise. Remember we talked about one of

28:09

the commandments, don't speak for God. Don't take the Lord's name in vain.

28:13

This literally is a violation of that commandment.

28:16

Promising somebody if they do some behavior, God is going

28:20

to reward them a certain way. It's not true

28:24

necessarily. It can be true, but you can't

28:27

promise it. So people have this mindset of

28:31

here's how women work, here's how men work. And if we draw these lines,

28:35

our wife is going to be blessed in this way or cursed in this way,

28:38

unhealthy. We live in a broken world. These

28:42

promises are dangerous. The lies about men's

28:46

behavior, dangerous. The lies about women's behavior and their

28:49

value or lack of value, dangerous.

28:53

Those divorced. The greatest gift

28:57

you can give your spouse is a heart for Christ, not your

29:01

first virginity or your second. And by the way, we know we're not virgins and

29:04

we're like, well, it's a new virgin. It's a second virgin. Okay,

29:08

not here to argue that. I'm trying to argue the idea, the whole

29:12

idea that you're going to get blessed by God a certain way. If you

29:16

do certain behavior is nonsense. Instead of getting something

29:20

better rewarded with a better marriage or the gift of

29:23

virginity or incredible sex, if you obey, then

29:27

sometimes that turned into a scare tactic

29:30

of you're going to get STD, you're going to get

29:34

pregnant. Well, here's the problem with that argument. Things

29:37

called condoms and vasectomies, stop that. So now what?

29:41

You can't scare us with stds and pregnancy at certain ages. We're not

29:45

dumb. We know how to prevent both of those or fix both of them. So

29:49

those scare tactics that worked on teenagers don't really work on us.

29:52

We're older, smarter, and wiser, and we're not in the backseat

29:56

of cars anymore. If you

30:00

messed up, if you had sex outside of marriage,

30:04

you're robbing your spouse of this great gift, or you're not

30:08

a complete person anymore. That was taught a lot. It's like you're taking a little

30:11

bit of out of you and you're giving away, and it's not going to be

30:14

there for your husband or whatever. You haven't

30:18

lost part of yourself. There's some truth there. But smell the

30:22

prosperity gospel, right? Just smell it because it's

30:25

not healthy. And some of you were saving yourself for

30:29

this amazing marriage, and then the marriage failed.

30:33

Well, that'll mess up your theology, and you're just not going to buy the

30:36

lie anymore. And now the pendulum has swung into,

30:40

well, that didn't work. And so now I'm just going to

30:43

manage this myself. I'm going to have sex and I'm going to manage this and

30:47

make sure I actually find somebody I can have sex with.

30:51

That's good. And I don't have to wait for this. Promise, empty

30:55

promise. Because, by the way, we're all divorced, we're all listening. Some of you were

30:59

versions before, didn't work, did it? Right? Your motivation crumbles and

31:02

then you swing into. I got this many of you

31:06

listening, need your lens change. You need

31:10

healthy ways to look at the opposite sex. I

31:14

know the purity culture, and I'm not saying this is wrong, there's a lot of

31:17

truth in there. I'm just poking around the edges of it.

31:21

They talk about Joseph running, right? Remember when his

31:25

boss's wife tried to seduce him and he

31:28

ran? There are times for that.

31:33

Notice Jesus didn't run. He didn't run ever. You

31:37

know why? Because he had perfect

31:40

theology. He's man and God. He sees

31:44

women perfectly. He sees

31:48

the opposite sex correctly, and it solves issues

31:52

better than don't run. It's like he was tempted, but he didn't have

31:55

to run. He just saw people for how God sees

31:59

them. And it's not looking selfishly for self

32:03

gratification. And I think what it is, is a lot of us grew

32:07

up in a culture where we were given bad

32:10

lenses, and therefore we're either swinging the pendulum or

32:14

we're just saying, well, that lens didn't work. Let me try my own here. Right?

32:17

I mean, I know this is crazy. This is where I'm going to get in

32:20

trouble, but I'm going to say it. I had a theological debate one

32:24

time. I'm not saying this is true. It was just for the sake of

32:27

debate. Could Jesus have been married?

32:31

Sometimes we act like Jesus had a halo and walked around like.

32:35

Like my argument was, if it was found out that Jesus was

32:38

married, like, okay, so he married somebody and he had sex,

32:42

probably didn't have a kid. That would have been a weird lineage deal. But my

32:45

point is, how would that have been a sin? There's nothing sinful about

32:48

it. And maybe in the bathing in the streams

32:52

or the sea of Galilee, he saw a naked woman.

32:55

Okay, big deal. He didn't lust. He never sinned. You

32:59

know why? He could probably have looked and not even thought

33:03

about lust. Because he saw that person as God sees

33:07

them. Men are not animals, and women don't have to walk

33:10

around with only their eyes showing. That's just not

33:14

healthy. Right? It's not. So

33:18

I'm going to tell a little side story here, but one time I went

33:21

to a tournament with

33:25

my son. He was staying somewhere else. I was by myself and I was in

33:29

a small town. I won't even tell you where it was, but I looked online

33:32

and I saw a picture of somebody who just did not fit the culture of

33:35

where I was. And I was online dating app. And I

33:39

swiped, and then they swiped on me and we started talking. Well,

33:43

long story short, me and this person met

33:48

in a hotel lobby, because that's where I was staying. And we

33:52

talked for a couple of hours. Then we felt comfortable with each other. We went

33:54

up to my room, right? Some of you, right, who are married, like, oh, no,

33:58

they would never do that. And I hope you wouldn't if you're in a covenant

34:02

marriage with your wife, or I hope you wouldn't, but I

34:05

wasn't. And we sat there till three in the morning, and we

34:09

had the best conversations. I learned so much about

34:13

her life. We literally turned on music, we danced,

34:17

and she left at three in the morning. Didn't kiss, didn't even date afterwards,

34:21

we just had a moment, and I remember thinking, wow.

34:24

One, that's one of these benefits of being single. And two,

34:28

it was just nice to be around somebody where there was no intention of

34:31

anything, just getting to know each other. And I know we sometimes

34:35

preach this. Well, guys, you're over here. Girls, over here. And we have a

34:39

men's ministry and a women's ministry, and everything is genderfied.

34:43

And the Bible is like, the Bible is written. All of us, like, you're allowed

34:46

to have friends of the opposite sex. You are. It's okay when you have

34:50

a healthy lens of who somebody is. Right? And

34:54

then I want to talk a little bit, too, about the

34:58

idea of american culture being pushed on every situation.

35:02

Do you realize right now in Germany

35:05

there is a pastor who's probably drinking beer after he

35:09

preaches and his wife she's probably going to swim topless. That at a

35:13

beach in America gets you fired. And there it's just normal

35:17

part of culture, right? Like they don't inherit our

35:20

views on nudity and modesty and alcohol and God

35:24

knows there's different cultures. And so I think a lot of

35:28

us just have some unhealthy views of

35:32

sex, the opposite sex and the functions of the

35:35

opposite sex. Right? Now listen, this

35:39

episode is a primer. I hope no one

35:42

walks away, assuming I've landed the plane, and you

35:46

certainly shouldn't either. Research, talk,

35:50

pray, search scripture, start a

35:53

conversation. I actually hope you got whiplash

35:56

listening because I'm not over here

36:00

on the grace side. I'm not over here 100% on the truth. I want both

36:04

to be true at the same time. But we made a commitment to

36:07

navigate where we are and if we move

36:10

anywhere along this line, it's great. Like everything

36:14

we do is for God's glory and should be for God's

36:18

glory. So I'm not landing the plane perfectly, but let's get a

36:22

little practical one. Your

36:25

church. You are the church. You don't have to

36:29

have church programs to minister and to love.

36:33

But you can talk about this

36:36

topic to those in your church and find the people

36:40

you can trust. But churches need to not make this

36:44

a taboo topic. I actually feel sorry for

36:47

young christians who get married and we're just like, good luck. As long as

36:51

you waited, you'll figure it out. It's like, well, not

36:55

sure. I'm not sure. Once again, we live in a broken world. How are you

36:59

going to figure it out? Adam and Eve, I guess they could figure it out.

37:02

Us. I'm not sure we can. I think we need help, right?

37:06

Here's something else practical. I'm going to get in the nitty gritty.

37:09

Those of you who have your friends with benefits,

37:13

just know that it can haunt you when it comes out with your next spouse.

37:17

Know that some places you live on this line can be very

37:22

painful later. I have a friend. I know she listens. I

37:26

won't even use her name. She'll know I'm talking about her. But she was in

37:30

a highly dysfunctional relationship with somebody who's

37:33

truly a horrible person. Horrible. And I remember telling her

37:37

when I was trying to convince her that she needs to walk away

37:41

is there's just a point where with your new spouse,

37:45

you're probably going to have to admit that relationship now. It

37:48

doesn't mean there's not some. If you remember, we had an episode about when you

37:52

have to unload what I would just say hers was significant part of her life

37:56

that probably was not going to be able to be hidden anymore. Right? Be

38:00

careful. Be careful. There are some places you can live along this line that

38:03

are very dangerous. God does not

38:07

land at. Well, whatever you want to do, you can do it. We can't

38:11

land over. I mean,

38:15

and it's not as simple as. Don't. Next topic.

38:19

So here's what I recommend on my website. I'm going to put this. You

38:23

don't have to write it down now, but making all things new

38:27

with David Pelson and shame and sexuality with Preston

38:30

Sprinkle, I highly recommend those two

38:33

resources. I'll put links to them. They're healthy,

38:37

they're healthy, they're good. I can recommend it. So

38:41

once again, some of you have a point of contention with the

38:45

various sex drives. Why would you get in a relationship with somebody

38:49

and not believe their definition? People can say,

38:52

oh, I have no anger issues, but you see that they do. Well,

38:56

maybe it requires way better questioning

39:00

than maybe it's not sleep with, but it is

39:03

real deep conversations. Because once again, we're too

39:07

old and wise to just gamble. And we may have come out of

39:11

a painful relationship, that sex was our problem,

39:15

and then to enter blindly into another one doesn't even feel rational.

39:20

Also, once again, remember I told you it's going to be hard to have this

39:23

conversation because we're all in different places. Many of you

39:26

listening are older, and there is a point where

39:30

sex won't be as important in a relationship.

39:34

Intimacy does come in different ways, and sex is a

39:38

subset of intimacy. And I know

39:41

some of you can't fathom a life

39:45

without robust sex, but there will be

39:49

a day where that just fades away and you may be closer

39:52

to your spouse. So the day can come. It really can.

39:56

It's not an impossibility. Move yourself along the

40:00

line. And I see this whole conversation

40:04

as if you were here and you moved to here, that's

40:08

progress. If you were here and you moved to here, that's progress. I don't look

40:12

at it from the truth side that just says if you've done

40:15

anything, it's a total failure. Though it can be

40:19

sin. It's sort of like the alcoholic. If I can get him to take

40:22

less drinks and not ruin his life, that's success. And I see that

40:26

the same way in this conversation. I challenge you to think where you

40:30

are on the line. How did you get there? Have you moved? And

40:34

do you need to move again? So it's sort of like my dad said,

40:38

be home at midnight. But if you're here at twelve one, you're late. And if

40:41

00 a.m. Because late is

40:45

late. And so when you look at things that way, it's like, well, if I'm

40:49

already in trouble, I might as well go have a good time. And some of

40:52

us are sort of doing that. It's like, well, if I'm going to violate

40:55

God's law, I'm least going to really violate it and hang out a

40:59

little bit more, do a little bit more crazy things, because you just don't want

41:02

to deal with that truth side. If

41:05

sex outside of male and female is a

41:09

sin, and God does rank sin, he

41:13

does. It's not like all sinners are equal. They're not.

41:16

God literally tells you things he despises and

41:20

he does rank sexual sins

41:24

differently. He does. Read one corinthians 616

41:27

through 20. Do you not know that your bodies are members of

41:31

Christ? Shall I take Christ's members and make them members of a

41:35

prostitute? Of course not. Do you not know that

41:38

anyone who joins himself with a prostitute becomes one body with

41:42

her for the two it says will become one flesh. But

41:46

whoever is joined to the Lord becomes in one spirit with him.

41:50

Avoid immorality. Every other sin a person

41:54

commits is outside the body, but the immoral person

41:58

sins against his own body. Do not know that your body

42:02

is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you whom you have

42:05

from God that you are not your own. You have been purchased at

42:09

a price. Therefore glorify God in your

42:13

body. I have failed a lot. I have done things

42:16

that don't feel like a fail. I'm still pondering,

42:20

questioning and navigating this topic.

42:23

Why? Because God says it's important. So I want to

42:26

make it important. As always, I like to be a change

42:30

agent. If this topic has caused you to think,

42:34

rethink, consider, want to talk it out with a

42:37

trusted friend, then good. I literally want to highly

42:41

encourage you to be in professional counseling. Talk about

42:45

your sexuality, talk about the birthing of your

42:49

sexuality. Like, when is the first time you had sex? What was it

42:52

like? What happened? Was it through trauma? Was it normal? What was

42:56

sex like in your marriage? Like? Talking this out is probably

43:00

going to be very beneficial for you if you're just sort of

43:04

winging it, winging this journey and just thinking, well,

43:08

I failed the first marriage, failed. I'm doing it my way.

43:11

That's not very healthy. Please share this episode. Start a

43:15

conversation with a grace filled friend about this

43:18

very topic. And as always, you know you can go to

43:22

toddturner.com slash divorce for links to some

43:25

healthy resources to get you a good lens, books

43:29

podcasts that can help you further blessings. Thanks for talking about

43:33

this. Thank you for listening to the unyoked podcast with me, Todd

43:47

Turner. This was originally planned to be a limited 17

43:51

episode podcast navigating the major milestones after the

43:55

divorce. Well, the feedback and needs were too great and now

43:58

I'm going to dive deeper into each episode. But with a

44:02

female cohost, we are excited to help further the

44:05

conversations into divorce recovery and gaining healthy

44:09

single legs as a Christian. But would you do us a favor

44:12

as we prepare our topics and episodes? Please go to

44:16

toddturner.com contact and give us

44:19

feedback on the podcast specific episodes topics

44:23

you wish were addressed. We would love to hear from you.

44:26

Then after that, please rate and review this podcast.

44:30

You might not know how important that is to help grow the popularity

44:34

and the reach of this resource for thousands of people who

44:38

need it and don't even know it exists. Rate,

44:41

subscribe, share all of it. But let's start with

44:45

go to toddturner.com contact and let me hear from

44:49

you. I read every single email that comes in blessing.