0:08

Feart originals.

0:10

This is an iHeart original.

0:16

Would you like to go on a treasure hunt without

0:19

leaving your house? Would you like

0:21

your name in history books? Would

0:24

you like to win fifty thousand

0:26

dollars? Of

0:29

course you do, and I know a guy

0:31

who can help. Okay,

0:36

this is usually where we'd play

0:38

a sound clip from some interview. We did,

0:40

but unfortunately the guy who

0:43

can help win us fifty thousand

0:45

dollars has been well

0:47

dead for three hundred and seventy

0:49

six years. His

0:53

name was Marin Mersenne,

0:55

and he was a friar,

0:58

you know, robe praying everywhere,

1:01

receding hairline that even God

1:03

couldn't save. Merceinne

1:06

used to teach at a little college

1:08

in the city of Nevers, France, and

1:10

he was sort of a big deal. The

1:13

humble friar was a math

1:15

genius. He famously wrote

1:17

a book describing the physics

1:20

of music, and he was

1:22

pals with thinkers like Renee Descartes,

1:25

Thomas Hobbes, and Galileo

1:27

Galilei. And while

1:29

Marsenne was nerding out over math in

1:31

the sixteen hundreds, he started

1:33

talking about something weird.

1:37

A prime number. You

1:40

know, prime numbers, those numbers

1:43

that can only be divided by itself

1:45

and the number one without a remainder.

1:49

Mersenne had found a prime number

1:51

that was well special, one

1:54

that was so special, so

1:57

rare, that he bagged the

1:59

naming rights for it. Mathematicians

2:01

call them Marsenne primes.

2:05

Today, finding a Marsenne

2:07

prime in the wild is a

2:09

lot like stumbling into Bigfoot.

2:12

It's basically impossible. Only

2:15

fifty one Marsion primes

2:17

have ever been discovered. But

2:19

there are more Marsens out

2:21

there just waiting to be found,

2:24

and thousands of people are

2:26

on a mathematical treasure hunt

2:29

looking for them right now.

2:31

Whoever finds the next Marsenne

2:34

will get their name in the history

2:36

books and we'll come home with

2:38

a chunk of prize money. But

2:40

the big secret, the next winner

2:43

could be you, And

2:46

I'm going to tell you how. Welcome

2:51

to very special episodes

2:53

and iHeart original podcast. I'm

2:56

your host, Dana Schwartz, and this

2:59

is prime time, the Hunt

3:01

for Math's most mysterious

3:04

number. I

3:07

will say that this episode did make me feel

3:09

like I was in like eleventh grade again,

3:12

having to be sure I understood

3:14

what a prime number was. And I'm

3:16

just so impressed by the people in

3:19

the world who devote so much of

3:21

their time and energy to just

3:23

the pursuit of knowledge for knowledge's sake.

3:25

It's something very wholesome and it made me

3:27

inspire to learn more about numbers.

3:29

Well, Dana as somebody who has a GIMPS account

3:32

and does go on searching for prime numbers

3:34

mers in primes in particular, I gotta say thank

3:36

you, you know, because we do care about this.

3:38

You're a hero, Sarin, you know

3:41

what.

3:41

I don't mean to steal any valor on this one, but

3:43

thank you, I really do. I absolutely

3:46

love prime numbers. I've written two papers

3:48

and published them about prime numbers. I watch

3:50

Burkhardt Polster from Mythology channel

3:52

on YouTube. I watched three Blue, one

3:54

Brown on YouTube. I absolutely love

3:56

this and I cannot believe that we make this episode

3:59

and this is how I hear about it. I was like, oh my god,

4:01

Merson Primes.

4:03

Well, I'm picturing one of our listeners being

4:05

inspired five minding the next

4:08

Merson Prime. Yes they'll get

4:10

the prize money, but I think we'll share in the glory

4:12

completely.

4:13

We will absolutely have the glories, and that's

4:15

really what this all is for. You

4:18

probably learned about prime numbers

4:21

in math class back in elementary

4:23

school. Shout out to my fifth

4:25

grade teacher, Missus Saban, if

4:28

you weren't paying attention during the cold

4:30

open. A prime number is a digit

4:32

that can be divided only by the number

4:35

one and itself without a

4:37

remainder. Take

4:39

the number three, for example, it's

4:42

a prime number, so is eleven

4:45

and seventeen and two

4:48

billion, one hundred forty seven million,

4:50

four hundred eighty three thousand, six

4:52

hundred forty seven. So that

4:55

last prime was discovered back

4:58

in the seventeen seventies by

5:00

Lenhard Euler, one of the

5:02

most prolific mathematicians

5:04

in history. Euler is just

5:07

one person in a long

5:09

line of math geniuses who

5:12

have gone hunting for really, really,

5:14

really big prime numbers.

5:17

And the reason I'm pointing out his

5:19

discovery is because Eiler's number

5:22

two billion, one hundred forty seven million,

5:24

four hundred eighty three thousand, six hundred

5:27

forty seven isn't just a

5:29

prime. It's one of fifty

5:31

one known mersenne primes.

5:36

Let me introduce you to a guy who can

5:38

explain why.

5:40

I'm George Waldmorton. For the last twenty

5:42

seven years we've been searching

5:45

for large prime numbers.

5:47

George Waltman is a retired computer

5:50

programmer, and he is

5:52

the king of the Mersenne

5:54

prime number hunt. In fact,

5:57

when we met George over a video call

5:59

late last year, we could barely hear

6:01

him over the sound of the fans cooling

6:04

his computer. Turns out

6:06

his puter was hunting for a

6:08

Mersenne prime. As

6:11

he tells it, he's been obsessed with

6:13

prime numbers for a long long

6:15

time.

6:16

Yeah, it's basically fulfilling up

6:19

childhood dream. My dad got me

6:21

interested in priding numbers back when I was

6:23

seven or eight years old.

6:25

When George was a little kid. His dad

6:27

got a letter with a postmark that

6:29

captured his imagination.

6:31

The postmark had two to

6:34

the eleven thousand, two hundred and

6:36

thirteen minus one is prime. And

6:38

it just amazed me that someone

6:40

was able to prove that this three thousand

6:43

digit number was a prime number.

6:45

The number on that postcard was a

6:47

Mersenne prime, and it contained

6:50

the formula that makes finding

6:52

a Mersenne prime possible two

6:55

to the power of p minus

6:57

one. I'll let him explain.

7:00

That means you multiply too

7:03

many, many many times and

7:05

then subtract one, and if

7:07

you're lucky, you've got a big prime number.

7:11

Here's a simple example. Two to

7:13

the power of three two times

7:15

two times two makes

7:18

eight. Now subtract one

7:20

that makes seven. Seven is

7:22

a prime, and since we can

7:24

find it with Marin Marsenne's special

7:27

formula, we can call it a

7:30

Marsenne prime. Now,

7:33

let's try it with a bigger number.

7:35

Take two to the power of thirty

7:38

one and then subtract one.

7:41

You got it.

7:42

Yeah, it's our old friend. Two

7:44

billion, one hundred forty seven million,

7:46

four hundred eighty three thousand, six

7:49

hundred forty seven that's a

7:51

Marsenne prime.

7:52

Two.

7:53

Now here's the tricky part. That

7:56

formula does not always

7:58

give us a prime number. Two

8:00

to the power of four minus one

8:03

makes fifteen, which is not prime.

8:06

Two to the power of six minus

8:08

one makes sixty three not

8:11

prime either. Turns out,

8:13

the chances that this formula will

8:16

find a prime are low. Frankly,

8:20

you have a better chance finding

8:22

a needle in a haystack or dB

8:24

Cooper than you do finding a

8:27

Mersinne and a major reason

8:29

for this is and I cannot

8:31

stress this enough, because

8:33

Mersenne primes can get

8:36

comically huge.

8:38

Currently we're looking for Mersenne

8:40

primes of around thirty

8:42

million digits.

8:44

George didn't slip up there. Right

8:46

now, he's looking for a number

8:49

that is thirty million digits

8:52

long. For perspective, that

8:54

number is so big it

8:57

would take me several months

9:00

just to read it out loud to you. But

9:02

right now, thousands of people are

9:04

looking for that number, and if some

9:07

and finds it, they will win three

9:09

thousand bucks. But the fifty

9:11

thousand dollars prize I've been talking about.

9:14

That goes to anyone

9:16

who finds a hundred million digit

9:18

prime number.

9:23

Now I get what you're thinking, Dana.

9:25

I would love to win fifty thousand dollars,

9:28

but finding the Sasquatch of prime

9:30

numbers sounds a bit too mathy

9:33

for me. But that is where

9:35

you're wrong, because here's the

9:37

best part about the hunt for Mersenne

9:40

primes. You don't need

9:42

to be good at math, and

9:44

that's because our friend George has

9:47

made it easy for us.

9:49

I wrote some software that can find

9:52

these prime numbers and put

9:54

it on the Internet for anybody to download.

9:56

You need no mathematical

9:59

backgrounds to run this software.

10:02

You can find the software George made

10:04

online at a website called

10:06

the Great Internet Mersenne Prime

10:08

Search, better known by its acronym

10:11

gimps.

10:14

Yes, gimps, but founded

10:18

gimps in nineteen ninety

10:20

six, and we found

10:22

seventeen world record primes.

10:25

Over the years.

10:26

Over twenty seven years, Georgia's

10:29

software has helped regular people

10:31

like you and me find insanely

10:34

large Marsenne primes

10:36

over and over and

10:39

over, which is a huge

10:41

leap forward when you consider the history

10:44

of Marsennes. For

10:46

centuries, the only way to dig up a

10:48

Mersenne was to sit down with a

10:50

quill and ink and divide by

10:53

hand potential numbers.

10:56

Later, new and better algorithms

10:58

with names like the Lucas Lemur

11:00

test were developed to help

11:02

speed the job along. Eventually

11:05

it got too difficult for our three

11:08

pound brains to do the math.

11:11

The last time somebody dug up

11:13

a Mersenne prime, mostly by hand,

11:16

was back in nineteen fourteen. Another

11:19

Mersenne wouldn't be found for another

11:22

thirty eight years. When

11:24

computers hit the scene

11:29

in the early nineteen fifties, computers

11:31

were finding Mercenes left and right.

11:34

Five Marsennes were found in nineteen

11:36

fifty two alone. Two

11:39

were found on the same day, but

11:42

eventually even the supercomputers

11:44

got stumped. By the

11:47

late nineties, the best way to search

11:49

for a Marsenne was to use

11:51

a Kray T ninety four,

11:54

a supercomputer that ran so

11:56

hot that were it not for

11:59

an internal coolant system,

12:01

it would literally melt itself.

12:04

And that is when George would

12:07

in.

12:07

I thought, if I made this software

12:10

put it up on the internet, maybe one hundred

12:12

people would pick it up and start

12:15

using it.

12:16

George wanted to help regular people,

12:19

people without access to supercomputers,

12:22

hunt for mersenes. He

12:24

wrote software that could be used on

12:26

a personal computer and posted

12:29

it to the gimps website.

12:31

It immediately surpassed all

12:34

expectations, and.

12:36

By the end of the first year they were well over

12:38

one thousand.

12:39

More than two hundred thousand people have

12:41

tried the gimps software since,

12:44

and you're invited. The software

12:46

runs in the background of your computer. All

12:49

you have to do is pick a potential

12:52

number and wait and

12:55

wait and wait some more.

12:57

If you're looking for thirty million digit

12:59

prime number, he will take your computer about

13:01

a week to test that number. If you're

13:04

going to go for the big money and

13:06

look for one of those hundred million digit

13:08

guys, it's gonna take

13:11

probably one to two months.

13:14

Using the GIMPS software is like

13:16

playing the world's longest

13:18

game of roulette. You

13:20

pick a number, you spin the wheel,

13:23

and then you wait eternity to see

13:25

if you've got a winner, and

13:27

chances are you won't.

13:32

I've gone through probably thirty

13:35

thousand numbers at estimate, everyone

13:39

of failure.

13:42

That's right. George, the founder

13:44

of gimbs, has tested more

13:46

than thirty thousand potential

13:48

numbers, and he has never found

13:50

a Mersenne prime. And

13:53

even though the odds are against him,

13:55

even though he's failed thirty thousand

13:58

times, he's still looking,

14:00

and so are thousands of

14:02

other people. And that's because

14:04

the chance of hitting it big turns

14:08

some people into fanatics.

14:10

The number takes on a life all its

14:12

own. It's a life that you and your computer

14:15

nourish with CPU cycles. Even

14:17

though only a tiny fraction of the test

14:19

could have possibly been performed. You

14:21

check on it several times a day, just

14:24

in case something goes wrong. You get

14:26

to know it like a friend. The time invested

14:28

on each exponent is what makes gimps

14:30

special. It teaches the user patience

14:33

and perseverance, and devotion and loyalty

14:35

soon follow.

14:38

That's a line taken from the GIMP's

14:40

website and Frankly,

14:42

the whole devotion and loyalty

14:45

follow Shpiel sounds a little bit

14:48

well culty, and

14:50

maybe it is. The people who

14:52

love gimps really really

14:55

love it.

14:55

The typical per sen prime hunt.

14:59

This probably won't be flattering, but they're probably

15:01

nerds or geeks.

15:04

I proudly label myself a geek

15:06

runner, and so I don't view that

15:08

as a derogatory term.

15:11

These nerds and geeks can become

15:13

addicted to this digital treasure

15:15

hunt, and some go to extreme

15:18

lengths to find a Marsinne. We

15:21

wanted to get inside this world

15:23

of Marsinne obsessives, so

15:26

we went on a hunt ourselves and

15:28

found this guy.

15:30

My name is Curtis Cooper, and

15:32

I'm a retired professor of math

15:35

and computer science at the University of

15:37

Central Missouri.

15:39

Chris Cooper taught at Missouri for

15:41

thirty nine years, where he lectured

15:44

in calculus, number theory, and

15:46

computer science. And when

15:49

we talked to him, he seemed like

15:51

a regular humble guy.

15:53

My wife would say, maybe you need a lie or something.

15:57

But the truth is Curtis is

15:59

a gimps legend. He

16:02

is the nineteen twenty seven New York

16:04

Yankees the nineties the

16:07

Pele of Marsenne hunting, because

16:10

Curtis has found not one,

16:13

not two, not.

16:14

Three, but we found fourmer

16:16

Sinn primes.

16:18

Four Mersenne primes,

16:21

which, if I haven't already stressed

16:24

this enough, is insane.

16:26

Curtis has found more Mersenne

16:28

primes than anybody in living

16:31

history, and judging

16:33

from our interview, it couldn't

16:35

happen to a better guy. Curtis's

16:38

love for mersennees just

16:40

radiates from him.

16:42

I've always really enjoyed

16:44

studying them because it seems something that's

16:47

so pure and so natural.

16:50

From my perspective, those are kind of jewels

16:52

in number theory.

16:54

Curtis has been hunting these jewels,

16:56

basically none stop for

16:58

more than twenty five years,

17:01

and he's been throwing everything at

17:03

the wall.

17:04

When I initially got started in GIMS,

17:07

I was using three or four of my

17:09

PCs at the time.

17:11

Curtis believed that four PCs

17:14

was a little overboard.

17:16

I thought, wow, for is pretty

17:18

good for trying to look for

17:20

prime numbers.

17:22

But remember it takes about a week to

17:24

test a number four PCs.

17:27

We'll only test two hundred and eight

17:29

numbers a year. This wasn't

17:31

good enough, so Curtis would enlist

17:34

more computers. He and a

17:36

colleague began asking the university

17:38

for help. Could we use the PCs

17:41

in the computer lab? What about the

17:43

library? Can I use the machines

17:45

in this building that building. By

17:48

two thousand and five, Curtis had a lot

17:50

more than just four computers

17:53

scavenging for mare senes.

17:55

In our heyday when we had a lot more

17:58

labs on campus and stuff, probably between

18:01

maybe seven hundred and eight hundred computers.

18:04

Yeah, Curtis had about eight

18:06

hundred couters looking for Mersenne

18:08

primes. And even with

18:11

all that computer power, Curtis

18:13

spent eight years finding absolutely

18:17

nothing. That is until

18:19

December two thousand and five. One

18:22

of his computers was testing a number

18:25

with nine point one million

18:27

digits. The gimps

18:30

software chewed on the number for about

18:32

two or three weeks, but

18:34

when it finished calculations, it

18:36

notified Curtis that it

18:38

was a Mersenne prime.

18:42

The feeling was almost like surreal, like

18:45

is this really happening? I was like a

18:47

Christmas present in a way.

18:48

Curtis earned three thousand dollars,

18:51

which was given to the university, and

18:54

then Curtis went back to work enlisting

18:57

his army of eight hundred sum computers

19:00

to keep searching for mersennes.

19:03

Just a few months later, in two thousand

19:05

and six, he struck again.

19:08

And then we found a second, And then.

19:10

Seven years later in twenty.

19:12

Thirteen, we found the third.

19:15

And then in two thoy fifteen.

19:18

And we found the fourth.

19:21

The last number contained twenty

19:23

two million digits. It

19:25

was triple the size of his first mersine,

19:29

and the thrill of finding it a fourth

19:31

time was just as intense.

19:34

It was sort of the same exhilaration, almost

19:36

like winning the lottery of powerball

19:39

or something.

19:42

Today, Curtis no longer holds

19:44

the record for finding the world's largest

19:47

Mersenne prime. Since his

19:49

discovery, two hunters have upped

19:51

him. The first was a guy named

19:53

John Pace, a church deacon

19:56

in Tennessee who had installed

19:58

the GIMPS software on a church

20:00

computer. Pace spent

20:02

fourteen years looking

20:05

for a Mersinne before the church

20:07

PC spit out a Mersenne prime.

20:10

That number was so big that

20:12

when Pace printed it in

20:14

two point font on eleven

20:17

x seventeen paper, it took

20:19

up sixty nine and a half

20:22

sheets of paper. The latest

20:24

and largest Mersenne discovered

20:27

was found in twenty eighteen, when

20:29

a Florida Man, You Go Florida

20:32

Man named Patrick Laroche

20:34

found a prime so big

20:36

that if I tried reading

20:38

out all twenty four million

20:41

digits, this podcast

20:43

episode would quite literally

20:46

become the longest podcast

20:48

episode ever recorded. So

20:50

I'll just give you the shorthand. The

20:52

world's largest known Mersenne

20:55

prime is two to

20:57

the power of eighty two million,

21:00

five hundred eighty nine thousand,

21:03

nine hundred eighty three minus

21:06

one. The crazy

21:09

thing about that discovery it

21:11

happened on Laroche's fourth

21:13

try. For comparison, George

21:16

Waltman has tested thirty

21:18

thousand numbers and has

21:20

found zilch. Curtis

21:22

Cooper told us he finishes testing

21:24

forty numbers every day, which

21:27

goes to show this is anybody's

21:30

game. A complete newcomer

21:32

can swoop in and find the next

21:35

prime, and eventually

21:38

someone will find the one

21:40

hundred million digit Mersenne

21:43

four fifty thousand dollars. But

21:45

while prize money is always nice,

21:48

there's more to all this than

21:50

money.

21:58

Big numbers have an undeniable

22:01

allure. Back in two thousand

22:03

and seven, Jeremy Harper of

22:05

Alabama caught the world's attention

22:08

when he set a record by counting

22:10

from one to one million

22:13

out loud. Thousands

22:16

of people watched as he live

22:18

streamed the count over the internet

22:20

twenty four to seven. It

22:22

took him eighty nine days.

22:25

Meanwhile, YouTubers like Matt

22:28

Parker of number file have posted

22:30

unboxing videos of them opening

22:32

up printed versions of the latest

22:35

Mersenne Prime. Big

22:41

numbers are just exciting. Think

22:44

back to the schoolyard playground. Who

22:46

among us in a quest to one

22:48

up our friends hasn't gone from

22:50

the double dog Dare to the triple

22:53

dog Dare to the triple dog

22:55

Dare. Time's infinity. Immense

22:58

numbers were our way of winning

23:00

the day. Frankly, the only

23:02

people more obsessed with huge

23:05

numbers than little kids are

23:07

well mathematicians. A

23:10

few decades ago, a mathematician

23:13

named Ronald Graham came

23:15

up with a number so big that

23:17

were it written down, the observable

23:20

universe could not contain it. And

23:23

then, in two thousand and seven, MIT

23:26

hosted a big Number duel

23:28

to find an even larger number.

23:31

The Mexican philosophy professor

23:33

Augustin Reo eventually

23:35

found a number so big that,

23:38

by definition, it cannot

23:40

be expressed through language.

23:43

All of This might have you wondering, what's

23:46

the point. There's got to be some

23:49

practical application to finding

23:51

huge numbers like Mersenne primes,

23:54

right.

23:55

I almost hate to say this. I don't know of

23:57

any application that

23:59

this great big number. I don't know how

24:01

we could use that.

24:03

That again, is Curtis Cooper,

24:06

and as he explained, most

24:08

Mersenne primes are so big

24:10

that they are basically useless.

24:13

But that's not to say they're completely

24:16

useless. One Mersenne four

24:18

billion, two hundred ninety four million,

24:21

nine hundred sixty seven thousand, two

24:24

hundred ninety five is

24:26

the largest memory address

24:28

for CPUs with a thirty

24:30

two bit address bus. That

24:33

might sound like a bunch of computer

24:36

gobbledegook, and I, to be

24:38

quite honest, have no idea what it means,

24:40

but just know that this has practical

24:43

consequences for a lot of computer

24:46

systems. In fact, in

24:48

two thousand and four that Mersenne

24:50

was used to control the timers

24:53

on all radio air traffic

24:56

around Los Angeles. When

24:58

the timers hit that number, it

25:01

caused air traffic control to lose

25:03

contact with more than eight hundred

25:05

aircrafts. Or

25:08

consider oilers mersin, which we

25:10

talked about at the top of the episode.

25:12

That number is the highest score

25:14

you can get on most video games.

25:17

In Grand Theft Auto, it's the maximum

25:20

amount of cash you can hold. These

25:23

small mersins are everywhere

25:26

we go. They're used by Apple to

25:28

encrypt and decrypt messages. They're

25:31

used to encrypt sales over the

25:33

Internet too. But the

25:35

really big mersins are

25:38

too big for their own good.

25:41

The uses are rather few and far

25:43

between.

25:44

That again, is George Waltman.

25:47

Maybe when quantum computing comes

25:49

along in fifty years, maybe we will

25:51

need a twenty five million digit

25:54

key, but today there's

25:56

no need for it.

25:58

So big mersens are

26:00

pretty much useless. But

26:02

there is use to searching

26:05

for mersins. Testing

26:07

Amersen is not easy for your

26:09

computer. It takes a lot

26:12

of computing power and

26:15

as a result, it's a great stress

26:18

test for a processor, and

26:20

so some companies use gimps

26:22

to test their computer chips before

26:25

shipping them out to market.

26:27

One weird benefit of the search

26:29

for Mersen primes is it

26:31

actually is so hard on a CPU

26:33

that Intel was using

26:35

it to find flaws in their chips, and

26:38

over the last twenty five years, two

26:41

or three times we found flaws in

26:43

their CPUs. Just five

26:45

years ago, AMD found a flaw

26:47

in their CPU based upon

26:49

running this software that's so brutally

26:52

hard on the floating point unit in the chip.

26:55

These sorts of stress tests can

26:57

have a huge impact. In

26:59

nineteen ninety four, a mouth professor

27:01

looking for prime numbers stumbled

27:04

upon a bug in Intel Pentium

27:06

chips that later cost the company

27:09

four hundred and seventy five million

27:11

dollars. So the

27:14

Marsenne hunt isn't completely

27:16

useless, but usefulness.

27:19

It's not the reason people hunt for them.

27:23

Chris Caldwell, who brand the

27:26

largest prime number website, compared

27:28

it to the Hope diamond. It sits

27:31

in a museum. It has

27:33

no use. It's just there

27:35

to sit there and look pretty

27:38

and for you to admire. A

27:40

Mersinn prime is kind of like that. It's

27:42

the largest of its kind. It

27:45

sits there and looks pretty and you can

27:47

marvel at it, and that's that's

27:49

about all it's good for.

27:51

And a lot of people are content with

27:53

that because people like

27:55

Curtis and George, they

27:58

aren't looking for Mersenne primes

28:00

because they want to change the world.

28:03

Their motivation is simpler.

28:06

Yeah, you could be in a for the prize

28:08

money. You could be at it for the glory of finding

28:10

a numerous in prime, or

28:13

you could be at it for advancing

28:15

mathematical knowledge a little

28:17

bit.

28:18

Chris Caldwell, a math professor

28:20

at University of Tennessee Martin,

28:23

has compared the hunt to competitive

28:25

sports. It's the thrill

28:27

of competition, He says.

28:29

Why do athletes try to run faster than

28:31

anyone else, jump higher, throw

28:34

a javelin? Further? Is it

28:36

because they use the skills of javelin

28:38

throwing in their jobs?

28:40

Not likely. I've kind

28:42

of always equated it to people

28:45

who climb mountains and

28:47

their ultimate goal is to climb Mount evereston

28:50

no practical value in it, personal

28:53

accomplishment in it.

28:55

When we asked Curtis why

28:57

he hunts fourmer sens, he made

28:59

the same exact comparison. They

29:02

were his Everest. You

29:04

don't make the climb for money.

29:07

You do it because you feel called

29:09

to climb, because the climb

29:12

in itself is beautiful.

29:15

I think a lot of that is beautiful. Maybe

29:17

I'm too much of a geek on the

29:19

digits of the number, but the four

29:22

that we found I kind of tell my wife,

29:24

I said, I'll never forget. You know, the exponents

29:26

that are there and well, if I think

29:28

I'll go to my deathbed knowing

29:31

the four that we found.

29:38

Saren, I have to say, just finding out

29:40

that you were a Merson Prime guy, how

29:42

did you get into it?

29:43

Okay?

29:44

So I actually like their uh, just

29:46

like their twin sister twin brother, which is called perfect

29:49

numbers. Every mers in prime has a perfect number,

29:51

and every perfect number has immersed in prime. So

29:53

I love perfect numbers. An example is twenty

29:56

eight, and a perfect number is the

29:58

sum of its divisor. So you have one, two,

30:00

four, seven, and fourteen,

30:03

right, and those you had those up together twenty eight

30:05

And that's totally honest.

30:07

I just sort of went

30:10

somewhere else.

30:10

Anytime my fiance I talked to her about

30:12

math, and I can just watch your eyes like the curtain lowers.

30:15

It's just amazing. But basically the

30:17

point is is that the thing about math that

30:19

I loved and was drawn to is it's

30:21

like if art could be entirely

30:24

in your imagination or in your mind. Right, you

30:26

can appreciate the contours, the lines, the

30:28

symmetry, and you don't actually have to have a physical

30:30

thing, and then you can talk to another person about that.

30:32

They look at a couple symbols and then all of a sudden, that

30:34

same symmetry and beauty appears in

30:36

their mind. That's what I love about math. It's

30:38

like music, but it's.

30:40

Numbers that's so beautiful.

30:41

Saren, is your computer running at all hours?

30:44

It's currently looking for two different number.

30:46

Actually, actually right now, it's confirming the

30:48

work of others because I don't have a number i'm searching

30:50

for. I'm actually calculating a new one to look for,

30:53

and it is currently doing the work that

30:55

gims wants, which is helping others. I'm

30:57

just letting my computers check somebody else's

30:59

work and being like, come on, buddy, I hope you get it.

31:01

It's a team effort.

31:02

Have you ever met anyone who's found one.

31:05

No, they're so rare. There's fifty one of them, and most

31:07

recent ones have been found by a couple of guys, and

31:09

uh, I've never had the joy of meeting like Curtis

31:11

Cooper, but I see their names on the

31:14

gimp site all the time because they are checking

31:16

so many numbers. I saw his name was like, I know him,

31:18

but I do not know him. By

31:21

the way, who was your guys' favorite character?

31:23

A special episode character for this one, you

31:25

know.

31:25

It's Mersenne, he gets the name shot.

31:27

Yeah, he's the MVP.

31:30

Do you guys cast this one? Danage,

31:32

you cast Jason?

31:33

Can you cast this one?

31:35

You know?

31:35

Watson from IBM and also

31:38

Deep Blue from IBM. The two

31:40

so the Jeopardy supercomputer and the Chess

31:43

supercomputer. They are the stars of this

31:45

episode.

31:45

I like that.

31:46

I thought about Marin Mersen. He

31:48

could be played by Edward Norton if you made the movie.

31:50

Just to pull from your board, I mean, I thought he

31:53

got He's got the monks vibe. You can totally

31:55

feel him out there, like in the Abbey by himself.

31:58

Leonard Euler. I was thinking Giovanni Ribisi

32:01

because if you've seen a picture, the

32:03

famous image of Oiler, it looks just

32:05

like Giovanni Ribisi, right, George

32:07

Woltman, this is a little bit out there. But Francis

32:10

Ford Coppola, he's a kind heart chasing

32:12

after greatness. He gets it. And

32:14

then Curtis Cooper, because I got to give a shout

32:16

out to my man, Cartis Cooper, Mark Ruffalo,

32:19

the cozy, rumpled yet ambitious

32:22

nerd. And finally the next

32:24

person to find immerc in Prime me so

32:26

there you go. That's all my casting.

32:31

Very Special Episodes is made by some very

32:33

special people. This show

32:35

is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Zaren

32:38

Burnett and me Jason English. Today's

32:40

episode was written by Lucas Riley. Our

32:43

producer is Josh Fisher. Editing

32:46

and sound design by Emily maronof

32:48

mixing and mastering by Behid Fraser.

32:51

Original music by Elise McCoy.

32:54

Research and fact checking by Austin Thompson

32:57

and Lucas Riley. Show logo

32:59

by Lucy Quintinia. Special

33:01

thanks to Carl Catle for some excellent

33:03

voice acting. I'm your executive

33:06

producer and we'll see you back here next Wednesday.

33:09

Very Special Episodes is a production

33:11

of iHeart Podcasts.