Jeet Heer--national affairs correspondent for "The Nation," master of intellectually omnivorous Twitter threads, and Jack Kirby scholar--joins Douglas Wolk to discuss Fantastic Four #39 and 40. Topics include Doctor Doom as Hobbes' Leviathan, Kirby's personal background and how it informed Fantastic Four's characters, the proto-Doom in Challengers of the Unknown #4, the Inhumans' story as an allegory for Jewish assimilation, and the F.F. as a Kennedy-era Democratic coalition.