0:06

Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast

0:08

. I am your host , Lisa Am .

0:10

The highest match in my third cousin

0:12

. All these people have . Whenever

0:14

I match with someone , I send them

0:16

my story . They're all blown away and

0:19

they're all . No one's got any kind of

0:21

information from me . They're like , wow , what a powerful

0:23

story . Nice to meet you , cousin .

0:35

Hello and welcome to today's episode

0:38

. Today's guest is Ryan

0:40

Anderson . He's going to tell us a

0:42

little bit about himself here in a minute

0:44

, but I just want to express

0:47

to the listeners this is going to be a fantastic

0:50

episode . I can feel it already in my

0:52

bones and it is truly a

0:54

privilege and an honor to

0:56

have this opportunity to speak with

0:58

Ryan . Good morning , Ryan

1:00

, for me , and good afternoon

1:03

for you . How are you today ?

1:05

Good afternoon everyone . Thank you for having

1:08

me . No pressure there . A fantastic

1:10

episode incoming .

1:13

Fantastic episode incoming

1:15

absolutely 2pm

1:18

in Scotland .

1:18

here the sun's shining

1:20

, which is unusual , but

1:23

we enjoy it when it's the most of it

1:25

.

1:25

Well , welcome . Do you mind if you

1:27

just kick us off with a little

1:30

bit about who is Ryan Anderson

1:32

?

1:32

So Ryan Anderson is

1:35

a happy-go-lucky

1:38

guy , very vocal regarding

1:41

mental health , regarding

1:43

adoption . I feel like I've

1:46

got a purpose to try and help people , so

1:49

that's why I do as many podcasts

1:51

as I can speak

1:53

up , hopefully be

1:55

relatable , have a nerve with people

1:57

, tell my story a

2:00

great inspiration to others to show

2:02

, no matter what you've been through

2:04

, to still do your best

2:06

to have a good life and make the most of it .

2:08

Oh , that's awesome . I'm going to have you

2:10

then start at your

2:13

story the reveal

2:16

of adoption and

2:18

what you knew at that

2:20

point in time and how you felt

2:23

right afterwards .

2:24

Yeah . So growing

2:26

up I always felt odd and

2:29

I was always ashamed of my adopted

2:31

family . Just because I'm not

2:33

financially not

2:35

the best , yeah , yeah

2:38

, all I wanted to do was fit in and

2:41

because when you're an outsider you don't fit

2:43

in . And then finding out I

2:45

was adopted at age 18 , just when

2:47

I was 18 , then my world

2:49

came crashing down . At that moment I

2:51

was upset . It kind of

2:53

just ticked all boxes that

2:55

I was an outsider . When you're young

2:58

, a teenager , majority

3:01

of us just don't deal

3:03

with our problems and we

3:05

just , in my case , just go

3:07

out and have fun . I was out

3:09

partying . You've got more distractions

3:12

than when you're older and

3:15

that's the reason why I've

3:17

only started to talk about I'll deal with my problems

3:20

currently , when before

3:22

it was just lots

3:25

of distractions as a couple of mechanisms , mainly

3:28

the party inside to alcohol

3:30

and drugs .

3:31

I'm going to have us kind of move backwards

3:33

a little bit in your story to two

3:36

statements that you made and if you

3:38

could explain them a little bit more

3:40

. One is that

3:42

you did not feel like you

3:44

fit in and you haven't divulged

3:47

yet in our conversation why

3:49

in the introduction you did

3:51

state I mean Scotland , let's

3:54

give a little bit more around . That

3:57

I didn't fit in context for

3:59

our listeners , because I think that it's

4:01

important .

4:03

Yeah . So regarding fitting in , there's many

4:05

aspects . One

4:07

would be financially not having enough money , being

4:10

a poor family . When

4:12

you compare to others and

4:14

not thinking about that , you're probably

4:17

more well off than other families . Another

4:19

part was the appearance

4:22

that could be . Obviously

4:24

I'm Moroccan , so tan skin , adopted

4:27

dad's tan , my adopted mum's

4:29

white . So growing

4:32

up in a white area , I wished

4:36

I was white and now when I'm

4:38

older , I'm actually quite happy that I'm tanned and

4:41

normally lots of people like to be tanned

4:43

going on sunbeds or going on holidays

4:45

. The culture was another

4:47

part . I was

4:49

brought a Muslim

4:51

but I kind of drifted away from

4:54

that religion and when the area

4:56

you don't grow up in isn't Muslim

4:58

or the same culture

5:00

, you kind of it's

5:02

natural just to want to fit in when you're

5:04

younger and add

5:06

so many obstacles of not

5:09

fitting in . Yeah , that was when

5:12

you're young , you just crave to fit

5:14

in . Yeah , the family

5:16

was kind of scattered all over the place

5:18

. So when you look at other , it's all

5:21

just comparisons . When I looked at other

5:23

families , the family was in

5:25

the same city and some families

5:27

are closer than others . So

5:29

you just constantly comparing

5:32

yourself and wanting to fit in

5:34

. And yeah , it

5:37

was embarrassing when

5:40

my family stood out and then

5:42

say , for instance , the accent my

5:45

mother's English and

5:47

I got a Scottish accent

5:49

. So when you're young you'll make

5:51

fun of that . Yeah , as I said

5:53

, also my name as well

5:56

. My name was a big

5:59

concern for me . I was born

6:02

, I was given the name Rashid Abufad

6:05

Omarini in 1819

6:09

and changed my name to Ryan Anderson and

6:12

I also had a nickname called Pesci . So

6:15

I'm going to change my name . It's like a new

6:17

life and

6:20

you kind of have different identities

6:22

which can be quite confusing when

6:24

you get older . And

6:27

on top of the skin color type

6:29

, there's also some racism that can happen in

6:31

bullying , which is quite

6:33

hard to deal with when you're young . Yeah

6:36

, it's just a part of growing up really and

6:38

kind of accepting myself now or

6:40

doing my best .

6:41

Yeah , that is a lot

6:43

of information for our listeners

6:45

. I know that there are going to be

6:48

people who can

6:50

resonate with some of the things that you just said

6:52

. So you put all of that together

6:54

as you're growing up and

6:57

at that point you don't even know that you're adopted

6:59

, but then you learn your adoption status

7:02

at the age of 18

7:04

. And you and I have kind of talked

7:06

a little bit about this . What did you

7:08

do at that point ? Did you go and share

7:10

that out , or did you hold that

7:12

in ?

7:15

Yeah , so I was in England at the time , so

7:18

I had plans

7:20

to go to university and I

7:22

didn't really know what I wanted to do . I was good with maths

7:25

, so I wanted to be an accountant

7:27

or something . But then , when I heard that

7:29

information , I

7:32

then left the family home not

7:34

the family home , my mother's home . I

7:36

went back to Scotland and

7:38

I was homeless and

7:41

I just got off at the job and got

7:43

a flat and started my own life

7:45

and I

7:48

was that ashamed of what the

7:50

information I knew that I kept seeking

7:52

it for 12 years . I

7:56

did keep in touch with my mother . She cares for

7:58

me . She's been fantastic , but she's

8:01

the only person I'd have a conversation with about adoption

8:03

with . But to everyone else the

8:07

word wasn't mentioned at all and

8:09

it was forgotten about .

8:11

Do you mind if you expand

8:13

a little bit on what

8:15

you were really feeling in terms of shame

8:17

? What was the driver of that

8:20

shame for you ?

8:21

So I think adoptees

8:24

finding out you are adopted

8:26

at an age it's called an LDA

8:28

, a late discovery adoptee , and

8:31

it's known that it can cause . It's

8:34

known to tell your child

8:36

as soon as possible that they're adopted

8:38

, but a lot of people understand why

8:40

they don't . Later you kind of think you're helping

8:43

or

8:45

you're trying to lessen the blow or

8:47

to deal with it when you're an adult , but that's

8:49

not the case . The truth needs

8:52

to be told as soon as possible

8:54

. Yeah , so that's secret . So

8:57

going up , being embarrassed , being

8:59

trying to fit in , that was

9:01

the biggest weapon to someone that

9:04

they could use to bring me down . So

9:07

I wasn't giving anyone that ammunition

9:09

, I

9:12

was keeping that close to my chest and

9:14

no one knew . So

9:17

keeping that secret was a big

9:19

deal to me . Yeah , I was really

9:21

kind of pissed with my mind towards

9:25

the past current

9:27

years . It was bringing

9:29

me down . So that's

9:31

the lesson learned to not try not

9:33

to keep secrets . Try not to keep something , talk

9:35

about it . And when I did

9:37

do that , things started

9:40

to get better and I

9:42

started to feel accepted , which is nice .

9:44

So , ryan , the lapse time between

9:46

when you learned

9:49

of your adoption status as an

9:51

LDA to when you actually

9:53

started thinking about and grounding

9:56

yourself , I believe was 12 years

9:58

. Is that about correct ?

10:00

Yeah , that's right . It's all about

10:02

timing as well , because in 2017

10:06

, no , sorry , 2018 , I think I told

10:08

someone when I was drunk and

10:10

the more that you think that they think

10:13

that it'd be a relief the next

10:15

morning . It wasn't . And

10:17

then the same thing happened a year later , and

10:19

blurting that out was

10:22

in that's obviously the bottle

10:24

getting full right to the top , and , yeah

10:27

, that could tell that I'm for me . It was killing

10:29

me , and I also

10:31

tried to go to counseling as well , and

10:33

I just walked out . So

10:36

the timing is most important . So when I

10:38

was ready to this

10:40

date , I can now tell anyone

10:42

in the street about my life story to my

10:44

best friend and get

10:47

others to open up . Best of you to say

10:49

thanks . I really need to have

10:51

that conversation , or

10:53

when I like having conversations

10:55

with people . People are

10:57

drawn to me to

10:59

open up and

11:02

if it's encouraging people to open up

11:04

, then I feel like I'm doing

11:06

a good job .

11:07

Yeah , I like that . I think the catalyst

11:10

too , if I remember correctly , for

11:12

getting your next step and starting your search

11:14

was locked down during

11:16

the pandemic . Can

11:19

you share a little bit about how

11:21

you started your search and what that

11:23

means to you , Because

11:26

it's a very interesting story ?

11:28

Yes , it's challenging

11:31

. So everyone thought

11:33

I had a great life . My life was worked

11:36

out in Ibiza and then the winter I'd go

11:38

traveling and I

11:40

enjoy traveling , enjoy going to new places

11:43

, even in Scotland , anywhere in

11:45

New Year , a new restaurant , anywhere , like doing

11:47

new things . I'd always go on holidays and

11:49

then when COVID started

11:52

, you couldn't go anywhere . So I grounded

11:54

. I did have an idea that I would

11:56

give alcohol and drugs a

11:58

break and that's what happened

12:00

. It started

12:02

off in a month , two months

12:04

, three months , six months , then a year , and

12:07

in that time I'd done loads

12:09

of self-development stuff . Tried

12:12

to see me do oil , support groups

12:14

, yoga , meditation , all

12:17

the things , cold water therapy all the things that are

12:19

good for you . I was just experimenting

12:21

and , yeah

12:23

, couldn't travel anymore . So then I

12:26

finally my

12:29

biggest achievement created a

12:31

video telling my life story

12:33

, opening up , and that's

12:35

led on to so many opportunities

12:38

. Like yourself , to the podcast . I love

12:40

meeting people and open the door to

12:42

the adoptee community , but it was

12:44

a very slow process . When

12:48

lockdown happened in the

12:50

UK , it was out in March and

12:52

I finally opened up to the doctor in

12:55

May and that was an hours

12:57

conversation talking about my adoption

12:59

and then I felt great . And

13:01

then that led on to my

13:04

first counseling session

13:06

Remember

13:08

the year before I walked out . So

13:10

this year I was able to do it and that was

13:12

felt great . And then that led to support groups

13:14

not speaking and

13:16

being very fragile , to then

13:18

being friends with everyone . So

13:21

, as you can see , over the two , three years

13:23

when we've been involved in

13:25

this adoptee world

13:27

I call it you

13:30

can see how much I've grown . But

13:32

when before I was that

13:34

person keeping this my

13:37

life , I think that a close book

13:39

. And now Um

13:41

, out here talking

13:43

to anyone and everyone .

13:45

So uh , yeah , I do like

13:47

that you're touching on some

13:49

of the peaks and valleys

13:51

of mental health associated

13:54

with any type of discovery

13:56

of a major life event such as adoption

13:59

, and I think I heard in

14:01

in your dialogue and I just want to confirm

14:03

some of yourself . Coping mechanisms

14:06

have been , you know

14:08

, alcohol and drugs , and we know through

14:11

studies and sciences

14:13

and these types of conversations , that

14:16

is a common thread in

14:18

adoptees as well , and so

14:20

I appreciate it and I just want to honor you

14:22

for opening up about that .

14:24

Yeah , so when I was on

14:27

my self-development

14:29

journey , I wanted to give myself

14:32

the best possible chance to

14:34

get better . So that's why

14:36

I cut out alcohol and drugs

14:38

and I'm I've always

14:41

preached about having a balance in life

14:43

and there was lots

14:45

of down days , even being off alcohol

14:48

and drugs , but they were necessary to

14:50

deal with to to get through . And

14:53

, um , I know personally

14:55

, when you do delve

14:57

in too much , then the down

15:00

days are darker and darker . In

15:02

my case , it's always important to try

15:05

and tell everyone to have a balanced

15:07

life , and I've got friends

15:09

that , um , who are years

15:11

clean , got friends who are months clean

15:13

. I've got friends who want to

15:15

get clean and are struggling , and

15:17

I've got friends who are able to

15:20

, who have found their balance and

15:22

don't suffer from mental health . So

15:24

it's important to realize that each

15:27

person is different and , uh

15:29

, yeah , I always preach to try and find your own balance . I've

15:32

been trying to work on that myself . I'm

15:35

setting a good example and , uh

15:37

, receiving a lot of nice messages to say that they are

15:39

, that people are going to do the same

15:42

. I really appreciate that .

15:45

I want us to take a couple of minutes and talk

15:47

about what you've learned about

15:50

you as an adoptee as

15:53

it relates to your

15:55

three families . You've referenced

15:57

them as three families in

15:59

our off-mic conversation and

16:02

I think that that it is

16:04

so important to kind of consider

16:06

it in that way as well . I loved

16:08

that perspective when we were talking Uh

16:11

, can you share that a little bit more ? Yep .

16:15

So , um , the three families I have are my

16:17

adopted family , my

16:20

foster family and

16:23

my my

16:25

uh DNA family . So

16:27

my adopted family is my mum , the one

16:30

um , and everyone part

16:32

of them associated with that people I've

16:35

grew up with and my foster

16:37

family . They're the family that looked

16:39

after me . The family is six , Um

16:42

, but then it's obviously spread out over the

16:44

30 years later and they've got children

16:46

themselves . So they looked after

16:48

me for three months . Well , my

16:51

mum had my parents had to come

16:53

to the UK and then go back , so

16:55

I'm very , even though they were three months

16:57

in my life , I'm

17:00

so thankful for them and

17:03

they remember me from 30 years later

17:05

and I went to visit the

17:07

. So there was

17:09

two parents who have

17:11

now passed away , and then there was four children , and

17:14

one of the children they were

17:16

very close to me . She wasn't able to have kids , so

17:20

she then grew an attachment

17:23

and when she , when I met up

17:25

with her 30 years later back in

17:27

January , she was , um

17:29

, so , so pleased

17:32

to see me and she phones me every day and

17:34

I don't think I have it . So

17:37

she phoned me just to see my face and

17:39

tries to communicate , and she's got a

17:42

big smile on my face and

17:45

then I just keep replying

17:47

to say I'll be to Morocco soon , I'll come see you soon

17:49

, so she's so happy that

17:51

I'm alive and kicking , really

17:54

yeah . Then I got my DNA

17:56

family and as

17:59

much I want to find anyone in my family . A

18:01

lot of people when they were searching , they go . I

18:03

want to find the mum , the mum's number one . Some

18:06

people want to find the mum or the dad , Me

18:09

. I want to find the mum , dad

18:11

and the uncle cousin

18:14

Stamping into

18:16

anyone , because the

18:18

results on the DNA sites the

18:21

highest match of a third cousin All

18:24

these people have . Whenever I match

18:26

with someone , I send them my story

18:28

. They're all blown away and

18:30

they're all . No one's got any

18:32

information from me . They're like wow , what a powerful

18:35

story . Nice to meet you , cousin . They

18:37

can help as best as they can with my

18:41

search and If

18:43

they can't help me with my search , they're Accommodating

18:46

. So when I go into Morocco I met some of them

18:48

and they're treating me like family , which

18:52

is very , a very nice feeling .

18:53

I want to go back and connect a

18:55

couple of dots for the listeners

18:58

. When we started this conversation

19:00

, you spoke of how

19:02

you were a Transracial

19:05

Person . That

19:07

and that's how you were raised . You believed

19:09

yourself to be English and Moroccan

19:11

and when it came

19:13

right down to it , you're Moroccan

19:16

, correct ?

19:18

Yeah , yes , I got the . Yeah

19:20

, I got my DNA results . I think I've got

19:22

like 1% um Italian

19:24

in me , which is nice , nice

19:26

to know . But this it's

19:29

all dependent on how much you believe on

19:31

the , on the figures , etc . Yeah , but

19:33

yeah , I , I

19:36

was born in Morocco . I'm

19:40

going back to being ashamed . I used to lie and say I was born in Scotland and

19:43

now I'm actually proud of being Moroccan

19:45

and Also

19:49

my mother was English and

19:53

so I've got the Scottish

19:55

, don't like the English or some of them , so I

19:57

was quite a bit . It's about a touchy

20:00

subject . I felt touchy subject to

20:03

be proud of England , yeah , and

20:05

Moroccan . I was kind of hating Morocco and

20:07

now I love the country that was

20:09

growing up , just because I

20:11

wanted to be Scottish and I wasn't

20:13

. They three countries Morocco

20:16

, scotland , in England I've all

20:18

got an association with them . But but

20:20

at the same time I don't fit in with them . So when

20:22

I'm in Morocco , I feel like I'm Scottish

20:24

, and when I'm in

20:26

Scotland , I feel like I'm Moroccan . And

20:29

when England when England , I feel like I'm Scottish

20:31

. Um , so it's basically

20:33

as an adoptee , trying

20:36

to figure out where you're fitting , and

20:38

in some days I'm fine with it

20:40

, but can be a bit frustrating

20:43

, for example , being in Morocco

20:45

not understanding language .

20:47

The challenges of identity

20:49

are just phenomenal for

20:51

most adoptees and I appreciate

20:54

your , you know , kind of now , a bifurcated

20:56

mentality of you know I want to

20:58

be , I want to be Scottish when I'm

21:01

in Morocco and I want to be , you

21:03

know , moroccan and I want to be

21:05

. You know that that translates

21:08

across a whole lot of different areas

21:11

. But I want to bring us back to

21:13

your Moroccan story and

21:15

your search . You mentioned that

21:18

in doing some of the DNA

21:20

testing , you are actually

21:22

connecting to you know , further down

21:24

the food chain if that's the way we want to look at

21:26

it family members , you've

21:29

got a big hill to climb in order

21:31

to get to your Potential

21:34

biological , you know , first level

21:36

family . How are you feeling about

21:38

that ?

21:39

Some days I'm Got

21:41

my hands together and I'm ready to tackle

21:43

the task and other days the

21:46

the task looks too

21:48

big , it looks um

21:51

, really giving up the soul

21:53

searching journey . It's time-consuming

21:57

and it's

21:59

a lot of energy . So

22:01

my mindset can

22:03

change my attitude some

22:06

days , with my life's kind of on pause

22:08

and and

22:10

sometimes exciting searching

22:13

for family . But If

22:16

I ever get any information , or if

22:18

I ever get the information that it's

22:20

not positive , how will I react

22:23

? I've always dealt with that . I'm going to cross

22:25

that bridge when I come to it . But

22:27

yeah , there's

22:29

been lots of obstacles on the way

22:31

, trying to nearly get infaudited by people

22:34

and lots of false hope , messages

22:38

to say I found your mum , and then

22:40

there's not . And everyone's

22:42

hopeful and we're all told to say we

22:46

believe God will find you'll

22:48

be reunited . Insha'allah . That

22:50

means God's willing

22:52

and it's

22:54

very nice receiving all this positive

22:57

hope . But it's

23:00

down to me to do the work . And the second time

23:03

I was in Morocco it felt like I was in a film . I

23:07

was going around with my I've got an Arabic version of my story

23:09

showing

23:11

everyone in the street , in the hotels and the

23:13

taxis , trains

23:16

, and I walked along

23:18

the beach myself . I

23:20

spoke into the police . They're all . You

23:23

see all their eye and facial expressions when they hear my

23:25

story and they're excited and

23:27

they've never heard of anything like

23:30

this , just having the guts

23:32

to go up to all these TV stations . Hello

23:36

, will you take my story and can be quite exhausting and

23:39

it's an adrenaline when nothing comes of

23:41

it or it's

23:43

like picking yourself

23:46

back up and starting again . But I've

23:48

only been to Morocco twice searching . Each

23:51

occasion was five days , so

23:54

it's not a lot of time really . So in my next

23:56

attempt I'll plan to go to Morocco . I'll

23:59

plan to go for longer and

24:01

see what I can do . But yeah

24:03

, this kind of halted me regarding a career

24:06

and then and then that can then make

24:08

you feel lost in life , but

24:10

then those days where

24:13

I enjoyed doing it , I go . This is my

24:15

purpose . So I kind of stuck

24:17

between what direction

24:20

to go . Something's happened just

24:22

recently in Morocco , yesterday , which

24:24

has got me thinking . There was an earthquake condolences

24:27

to anyone affected by that and

24:29

it did make me think . Imagine one

24:32

of my family was part of

24:36

, were affected by one of my

24:38

friends who's helped me so much . He

24:41

lives in Marrakesh . His house has been destroyed

24:43

and that

24:46

does make you think about life . Try and

24:48

live life to the full and appreciate

24:50

what we got .

24:51

Yeah , I know , when searching

24:53

based off of my own experience , that

24:55

there are so many things that

24:57

you believe you prepare yourself for

24:59

and then so many things that

25:02

there's no way you could have even considered

25:04

it . I don't know

25:06

if I , as an adoptee

25:08

, would have the strength that you have

25:10

, Ryan , to literally

25:13

go to another country and randomly

25:16

ask people , share your story

25:18

and ask people if there's anything

25:20

they might know or could help

25:23

to disseminate your story , or

25:26

you know just the strength

25:29

that takes to do that

25:31

and I wonder if you

25:33

feel your strength yourself

25:35

.

25:37

Well , I start to doubt myself

25:39

when I get messages , unsupported

25:42

messages or comments or feedback

25:44

to say I don't

25:46

agree with your searching . Do

25:48

something with your life , don't go to Morocco

25:50

. These people have said

25:52

the phrases have meant well , but

25:55

it's also

25:58

upset me and it's also kind

26:00

of made

26:02

me think . But then on

26:04

the flip side , I have had lots of

26:06

positive messages to say it's

26:09

an inspiration , it's

26:12

go for it . Yes , other adoptees

26:15

saying Ryan , you went to a country

26:17

you don't speak the language on your own and

26:21

you're searching for family . I've

26:23

not managed to do that and these

26:26

people are in their 50s and 60s . Obviously

26:29

I'm in my 30s searching

26:31

, but yeah

26:33

, so I'm

26:36

quite a thrill seeker . So

26:38

this is kind of like an

26:40

adrenaline that there is

26:42

thoughts crossing in my mind go am

26:45

I doing the right thing ? And

26:47

yeah , I start

26:49

just with a trust in

26:52

the process because it's kind of like self

26:54

development . I feel like if

26:58

I don't search , I will regret

27:00

it when I'm older . I need to search when it

27:03

is important to search when you're ready , because

27:05

I always think why did I not want to search

27:07

when I was 18 ? And

27:09

that was because there was lots of distractions

27:12

at that age and

27:14

I wasn't mature enough . So now

27:16

you should get older , it's natural . Less

27:18

distractions Only

27:22

because I've not settled ? Yes

27:24

, if it's the one thing that's on my mind every day I wake

27:26

up , then that's

27:29

my answer . I kind of want to trust

27:31

the process and believe , with a lot

27:33

of attraction , that something

27:36

will come of this , and

27:39

something has come

27:41

of it . Every time I go to Morocco

27:43

I've met lots of people

27:45

and they're like you're my cousin , you're my friend

27:48

. So if I don't find

27:50

anyone , I've still got them and

27:53

that's the person . I am out there

27:55

meeting people .

27:56

Well , I think we're getting kind of to the wrap up

27:58

stage and there are a couple of things I want to

28:01

tackle with that . I have never

28:03

done this before , ryan , but I have to share this

28:05

. I ran across this poem . It's

28:07

called the Oak and it is

28:09

by Lord Alfred Tennyson , which

28:12

for most of us we can't even think about who

28:14

that is , and I know this to be very old

28:16

. But it says live thy

28:19

life young and old , like

28:21

young oak , bright in spring

28:24

, living gold , summer

28:26

, rich then , and then

28:28

autumn changed , sober

28:31

, huge gold again

28:33

, all his leaves

28:35

falling at length . Look

28:38

, he stands , trunk and bow

28:41

, naked strength . I

28:43

ran across this this week in

28:45

preparation for us talking , and

28:47

you were one of the top five

28:49

people I thought of when I read this , and

28:52

so , as we're closing , I

28:54

just want to see if you resonate

28:57

with a couple of things

28:59

. One you are , in my

29:01

eyes , an oak , and I

29:03

appreciate again you coming and telling

29:05

us your story and

29:08

being very raw about the

29:10

ups and downs and the peaks and the valleys , and

29:13

I think when I was listening

29:15

to you today , the things that

29:17

I took from the discussion

29:19

are , in summary , be

29:21

aware of your mentalness

29:23

, because it's a long road

29:26

and

29:28

there are a lot of ways

29:30

you can work through and

29:32

help and do self-awareness . I

29:35

think that was one of your main points

29:37

. I also picked up

29:39

on adoption , community

29:41

connection and that is

29:43

my advocacy Just making

29:45

connection with other adoptees and

29:48

being able to be in community

29:51

. And even

29:53

though we are oceans apart

29:55

, we still have

29:57

a common bond and we're also

29:59

, you and I , ages apart and

30:02

I still understand what

30:04

you're talking about and you understand

30:06

what I'm talking about . So

30:09

there's not a huge disparate boundary

30:12

in the community , it's a supportive

30:14

community . And then the one that

30:16

is a little hidden and

30:19

I really want to bring it out is

30:21

you didn't talk

30:23

about rejection in the

30:25

search , the potential of rejection , your

30:28

positivity of I

30:31

just want to search until I find

30:33

what I find is

30:35

encouraging , and I

30:37

want to thank you for that , because

30:40

I sometimes am

30:42

concerned . We spend as

30:44

adoptees a lot

30:46

of time worrying . We

30:50

sit in the worry space and stress

30:52

ourselves out over

30:55

the potential of secondary rejection , and

30:58

you have not done that , so I appreciate

31:00

that .

31:01

Yeah , I'm all about . If

31:03

I find any family , I'm rejected

31:06

. It's not , it's a rejection for

31:08

now , but I'll come back

31:10

in six months , I'll come back in three months . It's

31:13

just like if you're going for a job in a new year and

31:15

they reject you , you come back , come

31:17

back tomorrow , come back . It's

31:19

kind of just putting your own spin on it and

31:22

a positive mindset . Yeah , I

31:24

kind of . I agree in all

31:26

the points you said regarding the adoptee

31:28

point , and whenever someone tells me

31:30

they're adopted , it feels like I have an instant

31:32

connection with them . Obviously , they got their back

31:35

. When I go to all these groups , lots

31:37

of people say these groups

31:39

are where I feel

31:41

they understood , because

31:44

some adoptees can't have their conversations

31:47

with the partners , with the parents

31:49

, with their families , because

31:51

they're the other

31:53

half , say something triggering , but

31:56

when they come to the groups , everyone's

31:59

understanding and when there's

32:01

a bunch of us together , loads of powerful

32:04

conversations are happening and

32:06

people come away feeling positive

32:08

. So if that helps , then

32:10

we should encourage

32:13

lots of adoption

32:15

podcasts , films

32:18

, books , articles

32:21

there's a whole

32:24

range of stuff , even

32:27

face to face meetups , online support groups

32:29

. I make

32:31

it my job to make everyone aware

32:34

of what's out there and

32:37

message me and I'll tell you

32:39

all my knowledge . It's

32:41

like I'm a networker and because

32:44

when I joined the community

32:47

I wasn't aware of any of this stuff

32:49

. And now things

32:51

are getting better , but it's taking time

32:53

.

32:54

Yeah , I love that message and that mission

32:56

. Well , thank you so much for being

32:58

on today's show . I'm going to end

33:00

with one more thing . If there was one

33:02

thing you had wished

33:04

, I had asked you what

33:06

would it have been and what would be

33:08

your answer .

33:11

I think what I have

33:13

a question . My question

33:15

would be what

33:17

was one of your goals

33:20

in life , or whether you

33:22

see yourself in a year or two

33:24

?

33:24

Yeah , there's a few there . I love that . I

33:27

love the think ahead component of

33:29

that . Yeah .

33:31

The answer would be I want

33:33

to see myself happy , healthy

33:36

, more educated

33:38

, helping others and

33:40

helping myself . I

33:43

always love to help others but it's

33:46

important to work on yourself as well . So

33:49

I'm doing my best to

33:51

try and be the best person I

33:53

can , best person in me . It's

33:57

hard but I

34:00

always want to try and do everything with a smile

34:02

on my face , kind of joking around

34:04

person always up

34:07

for a laugh . So I'm trying

34:09

to do everything and

34:11

spread positive energy .

34:13

Well , that's great perspective there . Ryan

34:16

, and again I want to thank you

34:18

for being on today's episode

34:20

. It has been an honor and

34:23

you are more than welcome here anytime

34:25

when you want to share some

34:28

of your finding stories . We

34:30

will be for the listeners . Putting

34:32

some stuff in the show notes so that they know how

34:34

to connect with you . You

34:37

have a YouTube video . I have

34:39

watched it . I love the fact

34:41

that you're putting yourself out there . So thank

34:43

you again for giving me this opportunity

34:45

to help spread your

34:47

story and share your

34:49

truth and your lived experience .

34:52

Yeah , Thank you very much for having me . Yeah

34:54

, thank you for having me . Yeah , take care everyone . Thank you for

34:56

listening to today's episode .

34:57

Make sure

35:00

to rate , review and share . Want to join the conversation ? Contact

35:10

us at wanderingtreeapcom .