0:08

Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast . I

0:10

am your host , Lisa Ann .

0:14

Pardon me if I get emotional here , because this is definitely

0:16

the part that is always the heart . I

0:18

think I'm going to get through it and it's just , it's just , it's

0:20

so surreal stuff . But I got a message

0:23

.

0:37

Welcome to today's episode . It has been

0:40

a pleasure to work with the

0:42

male adoptee voices and

0:44

, as we continue forward with this series

0:46

, I am encouraged by one

0:48

of our storytellers today . His

0:50

name is Matt . He has one

0:52

of those . He has one of those journeys

0:55

where , as you listen

0:57

, your heart's going to be pulled out of your

0:59

chest , then it's going to be put back in

1:02

in such a joyous way and

1:04

you're going to be shaking your head under

1:07

the premise of there are never two

1:09

adoptee journeys that are

1:11

exactly the same . And so , with that

1:13

, I'd like to welcome you to today's show

1:16

, matt , and turn it over to

1:18

you so you can tell our listeners

1:20

a little bit about Matt and kick us

1:22

off with your birth story .

1:24

Oh , yeah , sure . So thanks first and foremost

1:26

for having me . It's an honor to share

1:29

the story . But yeah , things

1:31

got off to a pretty rocky start , I guess

1:33

you could say , in my life . I was born three

1:36

months early and

1:38

I was born on

1:41

Florida's east coast . When

1:43

I was born , there were several complications

1:45

, including a

1:48

brain bleed , collapsed lungs

1:50

and some heart issues that are common

1:53

with preemies . There was a doctor

1:55

who was called in you know responding

1:57

pediatrician who was called in

1:59

for his opinion and

2:02

whether or not my life was viable

2:04

, because at that time the

2:06

local hospitals in the Cocoa Beach , cape Canaveral area

2:08

didn't really have any NICU facilities

2:10

and he came in and

2:12

took a look . I had had a

2:15

. The umbilical cord had been wrapped around my head too , so

2:17

they had to deal with that . My birth mother

2:19

really didn't even get it did not get any chance

2:21

to hold me . They had to take me from her right away

2:23

. She was able to snap one picture

2:25

and I'll hit on that a little bit later , but

2:27

yeah , so it was

2:30

a very dire situation and

2:32

the doctor they called in had

2:34

done his medical training at

2:36

the University of Florida up in Gainesville

2:39

, which is about three hours from

2:41

the hospital where I was born and there was

2:43

a NICU there . At the time

2:45

Orlando was still in

2:47

the middle of developing kind of a NICU

2:49

facility there's wasn't complete . It

2:52

wouldn't be complete for a few more years . So the only option

2:54

was to airlift

2:56

me via helicopter to

2:58

Gainesville . I could get more work

3:00

done there and you

3:03

know , the doctor essentially

3:05

came in and said he looks like he's a fighter . I

3:07

think I think he can make it if we got to get him up there

3:09

now . So I was rushed up there

3:11

and my biological

3:14

parents at that point were told with

3:16

everything we're seeing , you

3:18

know , we hope he survives . If

3:20

he does , he's going to be in intensive care

3:22

for a while . With the type

3:25

of stroke that he's had . It's

3:27

going to probably impact his

3:29

motor skills . He may have some partial

3:31

paralysis and some mild cerebral

3:34

palsy . It's going to take a miracle from

3:36

the living . If he does , there's going to be lots of

3:38

care needed for

3:40

, if not his whole life , certainly the

3:43

first stretch throughout

3:45

childhood basically . So I

3:47

was indeed in intensive care

3:49

up in Gainesville for

3:51

I believe it was six weeks

3:54

, maybe a couple months , maybe three months at most

3:56

, but at that

3:58

point my biological parents knew

4:01

that they were already

4:03

in a spot with their first

4:06

son where they were struggling

4:08

to make ends meet and provide

4:10

for him and the

4:13

thought of having to basically

4:15

tend to him and a child

4:17

who would need around the clock medical

4:20

supervision . The best way I think

4:22

they phrased it was that they

4:24

had to give me up to save me , to give me a fighting chance

4:27

, and you know that that

4:29

was apparent to basically everybody . That

4:31

kind of parlays into the

4:33

adoptive

4:35

family experience , that

4:37

whole how that all transpired .

4:40

You know what a gut wrenching decision biological

4:43

parents have to make in the long

4:45

in this long haul . You're here today

4:47

, so a decision that allows

4:49

you to have a life is

4:52

is hard to counter

4:54

against . It's hard to say it was

4:56

a bad decision or

4:58

that you were torn away from your family

5:01

. You know it's just really hard to put our mindsets

5:03

around the common narrative

5:05

, around relinquishment or

5:08

needing to make a life

5:10

, a life saving decision in

5:12

your case . This is a great

5:14

place , then , for us to segue into

5:16

the conversation about who

5:19

adopted you , because there is

5:21

such great joy

5:23

around that piece of your story

5:25

as well .

5:26

Yeah . So you know , fate would have

5:28

it , the doctor who was

5:30

called in and responded and the

5:33

spit on this in the hospital the very start was

5:35

one of the parents who adopted me my

5:37

mom , my adoptive mom , is a

5:40

nurse practitioner and they

5:42

worked as pediatricians

5:45

in the central Florida area over the

5:47

past 40 years . So I

5:49

was adopted into a home where , right

5:52

away , there were two people

5:54

who , when they were home , could take care

5:56

of me and also would just know the best

5:59

steps and resources

6:01

to use to make sure that I

6:03

made it and the switch

6:06

over to that . I think I was in foster care for

6:08

a brief amount of time , but you

6:10

know there was all kinds of things that turned out really

6:12

positive with this and I know that , due to

6:14

their positions , you know , as pediatricians

6:17

, that certainly expedited the approval

6:19

process . It was done through , I

6:21

know it was done . It was a private , closed

6:23

adoption through Catholic services

6:26

, but you know , even

6:28

then the state still has to eventually

6:30

at some point , you know , make sure that all

6:32

looks good . But had they not been

6:34

in the position , the career positions that they were

6:36

, I'm sure that could have taken longer

6:39

and that could be a whole another issue . But yeah

6:41

, so lots of positives , and I know

6:43

that I'll be the first to say

6:45

I know that I'm extremely fortunate

6:47

that that was the case , because

6:49

not everyone who is put up for adoption

6:52

has an experience like that . But I also

6:54

think it's important , like you mentioned earlier

6:57

, to make people aware that you

6:59

know there are each case

7:01

is different and there are plenty of examples

7:04

where the adoption experience is a very

7:06

positive one . You know , I tell people

7:08

when I talk about I mean I

7:10

call him my dad because he is my dad , my adoptive dad

7:12

being my hero . You know there's

7:15

almost everyone says that their dad's

7:17

their hero , but I like to think that

7:19

it carries extra weight when I say it

7:21

, and I've I've expressed

7:23

that to him through my whole life and with my mom

7:25

too , because you know she was the one

7:28

who was home more than him , even

7:30

though they both worked at the , at their own

7:32

pediatric practice . She was home

7:35

more than him and she was the one who put in the legwork

7:37

, you know , doing mom's taxi and

7:39

all that with me , getting me to the right places

7:42

and therapies and working with me on all

7:44

those things . At the same time

7:46

they had another adoptive child

7:48

, my adoptive sister , who was also

7:50

adopted by them from a different family

7:53

in central Florida . Around her birth . I

7:55

actually don't know . She never really looked

7:57

too much into her birth story or wanted to know . You

7:59

know her experience with my adoptive family

8:01

has been nothing but positive . That's what actually

8:03

why she'd , like I said , she didn't really go looking . They

8:06

also had two biological sons

8:08

who were 11 and nine years

8:10

older than me respectively . So I came in as the youngest

8:13

and really from day one

8:15

those two older brothers looked at

8:17

me as if I was , you know , their

8:19

real biological blood brother

8:22

and stood up for me , looked

8:24

out for me , did everything you would want a good

8:26

older brother to do , and I

8:28

know it wasn't always probably a blast for my sister

8:30

and three brothers around , but

8:33

at the same time , you know , it also

8:35

gave her kind of a special place

8:37

in the family . There's nothing like

8:39

, you know , a father-daughter relationship and I

8:41

know that was always positive with her and my

8:43

mom loved also having a girlfriend

8:46

. Obviously we're only two years apart . She

8:48

was in the house with me through

8:50

basically most of high school . My older brothers had

8:53

moved out by the time I was just in elementary

8:55

school for college , but

8:57

we still all keep in touch . All

9:00

but one of them live

9:02

in the same area . One of them , my

9:04

second oldest brother , is actually a

9:06

professor of physics at

9:08

Yale . So talk about a lot to live up to

9:11

Academic expectations

9:13

. But the cool thing is , you know , as

9:15

gifted as he is and

9:17

everything , he's always been 100%

9:19

humble with me and been one

9:22

of my biggest encouragers , as well as my

9:24

oldest brother . Sean Corey

9:26

and Shannon are their names and very

9:28

Irish . All of our first and middle names

9:30

are Irish . I won't say last

9:32

name , but it's obviously an Irish

9:34

last name and lots of Irish history

9:36

. But that'll become a coincidence

9:39

later on and what we can get to . But it's

9:41

really an interesting story because just having

9:43

that kind of introduction to the world

9:45

, you know a lot of things could have gone the wrong way

9:47

. That then you know . I know the star is really

9:50

aligned and I can tell you that . I

9:52

know not everyone has religion or faith

9:54

, but for me personally it's always

9:56

been to me a reminder of

9:58

and what my opinion is . You know God's

10:01

hand and things . I know some people might dismiss

10:03

that , but I think even

10:05

for someone who's not religious , you can

10:07

take a look at this and say wow , whatever

10:09

you want to call it . It's neat to see that there

10:11

are cases where positive things

10:13

happen , and it's not always a

10:16

negative sequence of events .

10:18

I really like that about your story , matt

10:20

, and I want to take a couple of steps back

10:22

. Your situation started out

10:24

as medical , clinical and

10:26

, you know , transitioned into

10:28

a need and just the

10:31

stars aligning Again . However , you

10:33

want to put it , those things that

10:35

you know aligned for you and

10:37

it transitioned though from this

10:39

medical clinical need long-term

10:42

care into really

10:44

a true family unit . We

10:46

have talked now this is our second time together

10:49

in conversation and

10:51

each time I have heard in

10:53

your storyline just

10:56

the absolute love

10:58

and respect you have for your family

11:00

and the unit that you guys are , and

11:03

I do agree it is

11:05

important to acknowledge not

11:07

only the male adoptee voices but

11:09

also the normalization

11:11

of a narrative around this where it is okay

11:14

to be comfortable as an adoptee

11:16

and to have had a positive

11:18

perspective . So thank you for

11:20

sharing that with the listeners . It just

11:23

elevates us all to other

11:25

ways of thinking about our journeys , because

11:27

they are not the same . As

11:29

we are moving forward , kind

11:32

of , with your story , I think that we

11:34

want to get into the , so you did search

11:36

. How did that all come about ? How

11:38

did that come to fruition ?

11:40

Yeah , that's interesting too . So again

11:42

, I hate to belabor medical

11:46

things , but I guess it's been almost two years

11:48

now . About a year and a half ago I was

11:50

really having some stomach issues that

11:52

were bothering me and as

11:55

a quick side note I'll say that that childhood

11:57

growing up I was in I didn't have to go

11:59

to physical therapy . Those first eight years

12:01

I had some digestive issues . I had to

12:03

overcome partial paralysis in the left side

12:05

of my body , learned to swim with just

12:08

my right hand . At first . Things like that came a long

12:10

way into fight expectations , thanks to my

12:13

parents and my own determination . The

12:16

stomach thing was something that was persistent

12:18

as far as digestive issues and

12:21

lots of just pain growing

12:23

up . It seemed to subside for a few years

12:25

once I got into college

12:27

, up until about my late

12:30

30s , where a lot of people

12:32

will tell you that's when your body starts slowing

12:34

down again or problems

12:36

start showing up . And also

12:39

there was a significant event that contributed

12:41

to it and that I had my first

12:44

child , or only child . He

12:46

was born a couple of years ago and

12:48

the combination of seeing

12:50

my first relative in a sense for

12:52

that for blood relative for the first time

12:54

along with I was sick

12:56

of going to a

12:59

medical professional and when they would say , well

13:02

, what's your family history ? Having

13:04

to say , well , your guess is the good

13:06

is mine , because in this state of Florida those are all adoption

13:09

records are completely sealed and I

13:11

had never really pressed my adoptive parents too

13:13

much because , one , I knew it

13:15

was a closed adoption and two , there was only

13:17

so much they could even tell me if they tried

13:19

. So submitted

13:21

a 23 and me DNA test

13:24

and at that point it was just something I kind of did

13:26

. To be honest , I don't even remember at that

13:28

point how much of it was medical curiosity

13:30

versus wanting to see if there was

13:32

any family connections on there . But it was

13:34

funny I shouldn't say funny . It was interesting listening

13:36

to some of your other podcasts guests , because

13:38

it's so crazy how often it happens where

13:41

someone will submit the DNA to

13:43

23 and me or ancestry , they get it back and

13:46

then it's like , oh great , a bunch of third

13:48

or second cousins . Well , this taught me nothing

13:50

. Lots of frustration . And then , sure

13:53

enough , a couple of years go by , I hadn't even logged

13:55

back in and that led up to

13:57

, right before my stomach

13:59

issues started flaring up again . There

14:02

was a message I got forwarded

14:05

from 23 and me to my email so

14:07

that I logged back in and there was this . It

14:10

said possible first cousin . And he

14:12

said hey , I

14:14

saw your adoption story . I was adopted , too

14:16

, down in Fort Lauderdale in the late 70s

14:18

or mid 70s . Do you happen to know anything

14:20

about our family history ? And I said , unfortunately

14:23

I don't have anything right now , but I'll certainly let you know . And

14:25

that was back in 2019 , right

14:27

around the same time this stomach stuff started

14:29

flash forward . It was February

14:31

this past year . This year I

14:34

had just made an appointment to go back

14:36

to my doctor to go over some results for a

14:38

test I had taken up

14:40

for my stomach and everything . And

14:43

again , crazy , weird coincidence I

14:45

got a message from someone

14:47

in 23 and me and it said hi

14:50

, I'm your second cousin and I may have some

14:52

family information for you that might

14:55

be helpful . I saw your adoption piece

14:57

on your bio on your profile on

14:59

here . Your aunt was

15:01

my grandmother . Let

15:04

me make sure I have that right .

15:05

Well , this is the tricky thing about the connections

15:08

of DNA that we all go through , and you

15:10

are absolutely right . I have spoken

15:13

of this in previous episodes

15:15

too . While you're looking where

15:17

I was inundated , I

15:19

have now up to 15,000

15:24

matches . That just boggles

15:26

my brain , and , having

15:28

tried to do the whole detective

15:31

work and effort that went into that

15:34

, I am yeah . I'm

15:36

very attuned to what that struggle is . Yeah

15:38

and you know , because it just

15:40

overwhelms you , yours , you have no idea what

15:42

to do , you know so yeah , I'm actually

15:44

all right , so yours is is what's your

15:46

connection to ? so I to

15:49

the reach out .

15:50

I was able to pull up the message

15:52

right here in my archive

15:55

and so the first correspondence

15:57

, one of the first things he sent , was your

15:59

grandmother was my aunt . She passed

16:01

away in in 2004

16:03

in Merritt Island , and Then

16:06

she said her name is listed . And then she listed

16:08

the name , and I believe your

16:10

grandfather's name was , and then she , you know , said a

16:12

name , and then she said I have not

16:14

seen any of her children since I was a little girl

16:16

you may be able to read some of them by

16:19

going through her obituary and

16:21

I still I believe they still live in

16:23

that area , best of luck . So I messaged

16:25

her back , because when you hear someone

16:27

say your grandmother was my aunt

16:30

, there's still a good amount of digging to

16:32

do , and I liked to joke with my

16:34

friends and my close friends and family that when she said

16:36

your grandmother was my aunt . I'm

16:39

a big fan of Comedy movies

16:41

and the first thing I thought of was there's a line in the

16:43

80s comedy , spaceballs

16:46

. It's

16:48

a spoof on Star Wars , luke , you

16:50

know I'm your father , but instead he says

16:52

the guy's parroting them

16:54

say he says I

16:57

am your father's Nephews

16:59

, cousins , former roommate

17:02

, something like that . That's what it felt like to

17:04

me , like you hope , to get a closer connection

17:06

. And even when someone says your grandmother

17:08

was my aunt , you know there's still a lot of digging to

17:10

do . So I I messaged with

17:12

her a few times and then found out

17:15

that the Grandmother

17:17

she was referring to had 10

17:19

Children . So

17:22

I , at least at that point , knew okay

17:24

, there's 10 of them , but I didn't

17:26

know if it was maternal or paternal

17:28

.

17:29

So let's just take a pause there for a minute

17:31

, matt . I mean , 10 of something is

17:33

overwhelming .

17:34

Yeah , and I'm gonna be glad it . Math is this .

17:37

And it is . It is a lot , especially

17:40

when you're not clear on

17:42

what you're looking at . And

17:44

to to correlate and be relational

17:46

with you on this one I have

17:49

you know I said just moments

17:51

ago 15k connections

17:53

. I Should also restate

17:56

my biological mother

17:58

was one of 13 in the second

18:00

family .

18:01

Yeah , I remember . You tell me how big it was .

18:03

Yeah , yeah , and so it is . It's

18:05

extremely overwhelming . What I love about

18:07

what you've shared with the listener so far

18:09

is the fact that it is overwhelming

18:12

, and you know you're acknowledging it , but you

18:14

also found some humor in it . Yeah , I

18:16

think that is right , really important

18:19

as well . Yeah continue with

18:21

us on your path to

18:23

some of your biological discoveries .

18:25

Yeah , and so in my career

18:28

, one of the things I do on a regular

18:30

basis involves working with what's

18:32

called search engine optimization , which is where

18:35

you work with Digital

18:37

content online , do what you can to

18:39

ensure that it has the best chance to show up

18:41

when people are doing their own research For certain

18:43

things . So I consult with businesses and organizations

18:45

what not ? So that when

18:48

they have important information they want to get out , but there's

18:50

lots of competition for it I give them

18:52

the right ingredients to make sure that their

18:54

content shows up for the right searches . So

18:57

with that background , it

18:59

definitely helped me . And I

19:02

won't say the last name

19:04

, but then the last name was , I'll

19:06

put it this way if there was

19:08

a Smith Version , if

19:10

there was an Irish version of Smith this

19:12

was basically that past name was and , and

19:15

, so that I knew as soon as I saw that that

19:17

, well , great , there's gonna be all kinds of stuff

19:19

I have to rule out . And it almost

19:21

became like I almost felt like a private

19:24

investigator or a detective . You

19:26

know you wait into that and you have to say

19:28

, okay , well , this timeline rules this

19:30

person out , and then you have to make sure that

19:32

you're not looking at it different family

19:35

with the same and a family that's got

19:37

the same last name but not Biologically

19:39

related to . So that , I would say

19:41

, took a few days and I

19:43

was keeping in touch with that second cousin . And

19:45

I guess I want to take that quick chance to say

19:48

if you are on one of these DNA

19:50

sites , don't give up hope because you

19:52

only see a second cousin , because , as this proved

19:55

, one of those Second cousins which you've

19:57

seen in several of your interviews can

19:59

be the key that ultimately , you know

20:01

, unlocks the door and then the rest

20:03

eventually falls like a house of cards . So what

20:06

was so crazy about it for me was I

20:08

eventually got to the point where I knew I had

20:10

seven aunts and Three

20:13

uncles at least . Well , seven

20:15

aunts where one of them could be a mother

20:17

and Three uncles

20:20

where one of them could be a father , because

20:22

I didn't know if it was maternal or paternal

20:24

. So I said

20:26

, okay , well , I'll go look for any

20:28

photos I can find Using those

20:30

search engine skills , and at first couldn't find

20:32

any photos of the of the men . But

20:34

I found a couple of the aunts , or

20:37

Potential moms , and I was looking

20:39

and I thought , okay , wow , this one , she

20:42

looks like she is a

20:44

potential mom . And I started , I started

20:47

taking some of the photo editing

20:49

software that I have to make them , you know , side

20:52

by side and do those kind of comparisons and everything

20:54

. And I was pretty well convinced

20:56

that was my mom because of this , some

20:58

of the similarities , and I looked at the age and I

21:00

saw the age was she would have been in her

21:02

I want to say 17 or 18 , upper teens

21:04

but and I thought , well , maybe that maybe she's too

21:06

young . But then I realized , well , it actually would

21:09

make perfect sense actually if it was someone

21:11

who had to , you know , deal with adoption

21:13

. So I thought , well , I

21:16

still need to look at the males just to make

21:18

sure , but I don't know how that'll

21:21

happen . And I reached back out to that

21:23

second cousin and she said , hey

21:25

, I was on my ancestry

21:27

account and I was able to find the names

21:29

of . I mean , I was able to find a little bit more

21:31

information about the

21:33

men . She sent me an

21:36

archive of a newspaper clipping of

21:38

at least one of them where indicated

21:41

that they had passed . I took that

21:43

name . Yeah , I remember . Now I took that name

21:45

and went to a Facebook group that

21:47

was devoted to graduates

21:49

of a particular high school that

21:51

had passed away with some of them . They had

21:53

images and I know how to

21:55

search around and sort that by span

21:58

of time . One of the images that came up knocked

22:01

my socks off because when I saw it , I mean it basically

22:03

looked like me if I had just grown out

22:05

my hair a little bit longer . What's funny

22:07

is I showed it to my wife and I said don't

22:09

you think that uncle looks ? Looks

22:12

like it , looks like it could be my dad , and she's like I don't

22:14

know , I think it's , I still think it's the aunt

22:16

. And I was like huh , and that's totally me . So

22:19

I called over my little three year old son and I said

22:21

, hey , who's this in

22:23

the picture ? And I showed him the picture

22:25

on my phone and he looked at it and he just

22:27

without hesitation , said data . And

22:31

I said , ok , I got to find out a little bit more . So

22:33

I went to another Facebook group where

22:36

it was an ongoing reunion

22:38

group for people from that high

22:40

school . I said I'm

22:42

doing some medical research . Does anyone

22:44

know if Tim passed

22:47

away from like a car wreck

22:49

or does anyone know background ? I'm just trying

22:51

to find out from my own medical history

22:54

. One random person replied and said oh

22:56

yeah , he was in a car

22:58

wreck . His

23:00

wife is my

23:03

sister-in-law . And

23:05

again , that's where your brain freezes

23:07

, because you're thinking OK , so how

23:10

does this help ?

23:11

Well , let's pause there for just a minute , right

23:13

? Because , wow , what you

23:15

have also shared in your

23:17

story affirms our skill sets

23:19

. You talked about becoming

23:22

a detective . We

23:24

end up becoming detectives in

23:26

our own rights . You talked about

23:29

research methodologies which

23:32

, as we're all going through this journey

23:34

and trying to get into some type of identification

23:37

and reunion , we start looking

23:39

at different ways to find

23:41

different things and circle

23:43

in and hone in , and you also spoke

23:45

of analytical skills . So , we're

23:48

hitting all of the key things

23:50

that when we are venturing

23:52

into this , I don't know . If we

23:55

think about it that way , we don't think

23:57

. I'm going to be , this superstar detective

23:59

. Oh , now I've got to heighten up my research

24:01

skills . Now I need to analyze

24:04

the data , oh , and I need to maybe

24:06

think about it in all different ways , and so

24:08

I always find that interesting

24:11

in each of our stories , as we're going through

24:13

this biological search and

24:15

how it just plays into where

24:17

we get to . You're now engaged

24:20

in some conversation through a Facebook

24:22

group .

24:24

Yeah , and get back to one of the points

24:26

you just made too . An interesting note to that

24:28

meant to say , was

24:30

for a lot of us in this journey and

24:32

I know this has probably been a common

24:35

experience for you and the other guests that you've

24:37

had on here is

24:40

it can be so life consuming and you have to . As

24:42

a professional adult , you

24:44

have to balance work demands

24:46

, home demands and all that

24:48

and compartmentalize

24:51

really all the emotion

24:53

and everything else that goes into the family

24:55

research too , so that can be a balancing act

24:57

in itself . I guess you could

24:59

say a slight struggle for me because I wanted

25:02

to make sure I wasn't neglecting my home

25:04

Core family here

25:06

. At that point I

25:08

was astounded at how fast the cards

25:10

were falling with the information . You

25:13

go 42 years with

25:15

, at that point , no information

25:17

really or content , very limited information

25:20

. I knew my parents , my biological parents

25:22

were young , but

25:24

there was never any photos , there was never any communication

25:27

, and a lot of that was because

25:29

I was content and happy

25:31

with my adoptive family , which will always

25:33

be what I consider my real family

25:35

Ultimately . There were some phases

25:37

of curiosity that every adoptive

25:40

goes through . I don't want people to think that I never sat there

25:42

and thought about it because I would say a couple

25:44

of times per month for as long as I can remember I

25:46

thought about it . I don't remember my adopted parents

25:48

sitting me down to tell me about the adoption

25:51

story at a particular age . I

25:53

had known about it as long as I could think of , all

25:55

of a sudden , your midlife , this

25:57

information that is just dumping

26:00

on you that a non-adopty can just not

26:02

wrap their head around . And another

26:04

thing about that was it took my mother-in-law

26:07

pointing out like hey , keep in mind , this is

26:09

overwhelming . She said I think this is overwhelming

26:11

for your wife as well . Keep

26:13

her in mind , because she's got to learn

26:16

about all this too . This is new family

26:18

for her , which I think is something that

26:20

a lot of adoptees in my situation

26:23

may not even think of till it's there because you're so

26:25

hyper-focused on getting that extra information

26:27

. I had to take this chance to say that I

26:30

couldn't have asked for a better soulmate

26:32

and someone who supported me , not just in

26:34

this but in everything I do in life . My wife's been incredible

26:37

For me . It was amazing to

26:39

see how much she was emotionally moved by

26:41

some of this discovery too . She's been great

26:43

, and thankfully , because I could

26:45

see why this potentially does cause rifts with

26:48

families .

26:49

And I think that's important , matt , and thank you for

26:51

bringing that to this conversation

26:53

, because I don't know if we talk about it

26:55

enough . That says our whole

26:58

world is churning . I mean

27:00

it is , and so many

27:02

things are going on and we're human

27:04

, our identities are changing

27:06

, we're learning things about ourselves and

27:08

, at the same time , someone

27:10

close to us is watching it , participating

27:14

. It is impactful . Sometimes

27:16

we can't see it , so I do like

27:18

that you've brought that to the conversation , so thank

27:20

you All right , well , let's get us going

27:22

forward here on what was

27:25

the big opening

27:27

event for you . When did it all start to really

27:29

come together ? When did the cards really fall

27:32

all the way ?

27:32

So really it all happened so fast , so

27:35

that sister-in-law made the comment she made

27:37

and I saw where she

27:39

had just went ahead and tagged a name and

27:42

I thought to myself , well , that'd be pretty crazy

27:44

and to me it just seemed pretty audacious for

27:46

that person to just bam , you

27:48

know , attack someone like that , considering

27:50

the implications . But people do what

27:52

they do . I'm not judging , it was just kind of

27:54

surprising . It wasn't more than an hour , it may have even

27:56

only been a few minutes . It's all kind of blurry

27:58

right now , but I got a Facebook

28:01

message and pardon me if I get emotional

28:03

here , because this is definitely the part that is always

28:05

the hard I think I'm going to get through it and it

28:08

just it was so surreal , it's tough , but

28:10

I got a message . The person

28:12

she had tagged said hey , why are you doing

28:14

medical research ? And I started saying

28:16

well , I had some health issues

28:18

when I was born and I have

28:21

some health issues now . I was adopted

28:23

, so I don't know much . And after I mentioned

28:26

the part of adoption , she replied on

28:28

July 14th at , and then she named the hospital

28:30

. We both kind of paused because I was like , okay

28:33

, I'm pretty sure this is my biological

28:35

mother and she started typing

28:37

back oh my gosh , you're my son . You're my son

28:39

just totally rocked my world

28:41

as far as like I never thought it would happen that way

28:44

. Where do you even go from there ? And I

28:46

could tell she was in shock and denial

28:48

initially because she

28:51

was saying are you some scammer

28:53

? Are you , is this some

28:55

kind of fraud ? And

28:57

I don't blame her , because it does

29:00

seem so random , as she

29:02

was saying that too , we talk about information

29:04

overload . I got a message from

29:06

that second cousin saying I

29:09

think this may be one of your

29:11

siblings and it was a

29:13

link to a Facebook page

29:15

and I looked at it and I saw the name and

29:17

I messaged him and said I don't know

29:20

any other way to say this and I have to

29:22

say it quickly , otherwise you will ignore this message

29:24

but I think you may be

29:26

my biological brother . Did you have

29:28

a brother that was put up for adoption ? And he

29:30

said , yeah , back in 1981

29:33

, I said , well , I'm pretty sure that's

29:35

me . I went back to the conversation with

29:37

my biological mother and she started

29:39

saying you have a brother named

29:42

and his name , and you have a sister

29:44

named and said her name , and I said , yeah , I

29:46

just reached out to him and

29:48

I'll message her as well

29:50

. She went into explaining what

29:52

had happened prior to my

29:54

premature delivery and I immediately

29:56

expressed to her that she

29:59

expressed some concern . She was basically apologizing

30:02

for giving me up and I immediately

30:04

made sure that she realized that I

30:06

was not angry with her , I was not

30:09

disappointed and that I completely

30:11

respected the decision that she made

30:13

and that she gave me the

30:16

best chance to have a great life . We

30:18

have not met in person . We

30:20

do communicate through Messenger

30:22

, but I know she still grapples with

30:25

wrestles with that decision , despite

30:27

the fact that I have done everything to try to reassure

30:29

her . But I could never understand . I'll never

30:31

be able to grasp what it must be like for the mother in

30:33

that spot .

30:34

Well , matt , I just watched you relive that whole

30:36

thing again and it is

30:38

hard . It's hard when you tell our stories

30:40

, so , thank you . I always think it's an honor when

30:42

people sit with me and talk about

30:44

it , and so , as you collect yourself a little

30:47

bit here , that's a lot in

30:49

a very condensed amount of time and

30:51

it's hard not to be emotional

30:53

about it as you go

30:55

through it and then , as you tell it , still

30:58

coming to terms with all of the implications

31:00

of what you've learned . So , in a

31:03

short window , just to recap , you've

31:05

connected with a cousin who has

31:07

been instrumental in the discovery

31:09

. You've utilized Facebook groups

31:11

. You connected with your biological

31:13

mother and , almost simultaneously , your biological

31:16

brother I've now mentioned . You haven't had

31:18

a chance to meet with your biological

31:20

mother , and that is by choice . There are

31:22

reasons for you to have made that choice

31:25

.

31:25

Yes , and she understands so my adoptive

31:28

parents . They have both

31:30

been fine with me doing the search

31:32

as far as I've not tried to block

31:34

it or anything like that . However , at the same

31:36

time I know from my adoptive mother , with all

31:38

the legwork she put in and just the sacrifice

31:41

and unconditional love she's given me over

31:43

the years , she's very tender and

31:46

sensitive about it , for very understandable

31:48

reasons , and she said I'm okay

31:50

with you searching and finding

31:53

. I just don't personally want to hear updates

31:55

because I know for me how

31:57

much it meant to raise you as

31:59

my son and you are my son , and

32:01

she's also about 16

32:04

or 17 years older than my biological mother

32:06

. She's in her upper 70s . She'll

32:08

be 80 next year , so the last thing I want

32:10

to do is add any stress

32:12

to her life or emotional

32:15

distress at this point , and

32:17

thankfully my biological

32:19

mother understands that and she also

32:21

understands . Even if it weren't

32:23

for that scenario , there's still

32:25

a lot to process for anyone

32:28

, and that was back in February

32:30

, so it's been almost eight months

32:32

.

32:32

Yeah , several months yeah .

32:34

We communicate with occasionally sent

32:36

her Mother's Day card and

32:38

plan on sending her a birthday gift . She did send me

32:40

a birthday gift gifts

32:43

, I should say so it's been civil

32:45

, it's been positive . My siblings have

32:47

understood that approach as well

32:49

, thankfully .

32:50

And for clarity , you mean your biological siblings

32:52

.

32:52

Sorry , yes , and I should say

32:54

I should also just point out my adoptive siblings

32:57

have been unbelievably supportive about all of

32:59

this . I'm sorry

33:01

you get into these weeds and it's just like

33:03

. Here I am and I've completely , like , omitted

33:06

the fact that we haven't talked about

33:08

my biological father and why

33:10

he's not in the picture .

33:11

Yeah , absolutely . I think that we're

33:13

bringing it kind of all together , transitioning

33:15

a little bit here in this storyline

33:18

with you where you have findings , so

33:20

we've connected with the birth mother

33:22

. It's been very digital . You

33:25

guys have some stuff going on

33:27

. You have a layer of respect

33:29

and love for who has raised you . They

33:32

are your parents and I'm respectful

33:34

of that and again , I want us to normalize that . It's

33:36

okay to be comfortable with that type

33:38

of a narrative and the positivity of that . But

33:41

let's go ahead and talk a little bit about

33:43

your sibling connections

33:46

and your reunions and what you've

33:48

learned about each other .

33:50

The InstaNi messaged

33:52

my biological brother . You know , almost within

33:54

the same few minutes , like I said , he messaged me

33:56

back . So the brother wanted to meet as

33:58

soon as possible . I told him okay , well , you know

34:00

, let me think about things and I have to process

34:03

this . And that night had gone

34:05

by , I had messaged my biological

34:08

sister and said the same thing

34:10

, I told biological brother and

34:12

, and then the next morning she had

34:14

messaged me back and said holy

34:16

cow , you know I'm in shock

34:19

. You know you survived . We

34:21

didn't know if you'd had survived and you were

34:23

a miracle baby . And I've only seen one picture

34:25

of you and it was mom's photo with wires

34:28

all over you , and I'll never forget

34:30

. You know , it's one thing to look at photos , but I'll never

34:32

forget watching a video of my

34:35

biological sister joking around with

34:37

my biological brother using a face swap

34:39

app . Then , you know , I watched a few more

34:41

videos of them and it was just . I can't explain

34:43

how surreal and like sci

34:45

fi movie it felt to see people

34:48

who looked so similar to me in

34:50

video . The reunion went

34:53

well . I'm so glad I had my wife

34:55

with me throughout all of it , because it was

34:57

so intimidating . I can't imagine

35:00

going into that alone , I think it was like

35:02

. I think it took a week or two . I'll

35:04

never forget . I was just taking a shower

35:06

and like the weight of all of it hit me and I started

35:08

bawling because I couldn't believe everything

35:11

that had happened . And I told her when she got home

35:13

from work that night and we processed

35:15

it together .

35:16

I think that it's important in this conversation

35:19

, matt , that you have shared out

35:21

some of your emotions and

35:23

how you have to process through

35:25

that , and , again , the fact

35:27

that you've done so openly . We are

35:30

both from a similar generation where

35:32

we know that is not how the gender

35:34

roles play

35:37

out or have been played out . So it's

35:39

important to kind of hit that pause

35:41

there for a minute . In all of this , what

35:43

I think we're starting to piece together

35:46

and I'd like you to kind of close

35:48

the loop for us is your

35:50

paternal biology . So

35:52

where does your biological father

35:55

fit into this story ?

35:56

Yeah , it's pretty incredible , and I'll

35:58

actually start with my grandfather . He

36:00

had been living up in New

36:03

York and moved his family

36:05

southward because of the Apollo

36:08

program . He had a background

36:10

as in Navy aviation

36:13

from World War II and

36:15

was also an engineer , and

36:17

that combination made him an

36:19

ideal candidate for NASA's new

36:21

project in the mid to late 60s

36:24

the Apollo program . So he came

36:26

down to what we call the Space Coast , the Cocoa

36:28

Beach , cape Canaveral , merid Island area . My

36:31

biological father was the middle

36:34

child of the sons and

36:36

he was a mechanic

36:38

and he had just

36:41

gone from being a car mechanic to

36:43

getting a job manufacturing

36:45

boats at a company called Sea

36:47

Ray , which was one of the leading boat

36:49

manufacturers . That actually

36:52

happened a year after

36:54

I was born , so things

36:56

were looking up and they had

36:58

biological sister . Right around that same time

37:01

, around 1985 , I guess

37:03

I would have been four or five he was driving

37:05

home and he had

37:07

some car issues , was pushing his

37:09

car from the

37:12

road to the side , trying to get it

37:14

off the road , when another

37:16

car hit his car and , by extension

37:18

, his own car , ended up hitting him

37:20

and throwing him 100 feet . Unfortunately

37:22

he passed when he was only 25 . And

37:24

I know that had a major impact on

37:27

the family . Obviously it traumatized

37:29

my biological brother , where he didn't speak for

37:31

a couple years well , at least a year

37:33

and he had to be held back in school

37:36

as a result , and my biological sister

37:38

was very young but she

37:40

remembers how it took him a while to

37:42

start talking back to her . But throughout

37:45

this journey I was able

37:47

to contact not only the siblings but remember

37:49

how I mentioned , there were those seven aunts and

37:52

all but two of them live in

37:54

my home area and I've been able

37:56

to meet up with a couple of them and

37:58

when they've described my biological

38:01

father's personality how hard it must

38:03

have been for them to

38:05

lose a brother like that , and the

38:07

fact that they were still so welcoming

38:09

because you know a lot of people when they go through a tragedy like

38:12

that , when it kind of just pushed away anything

38:14

that reminds them of it , they were overwhelmed

38:16

by physical reminder because

38:18

of our resemblance of so strong and

38:20

they even said , like you're your own person , but

38:22

you're like a clone of Tim , you know

38:25

, and yeah

38:27

, so yeah .

38:28

Let's take a pause here for just a minute and

38:30

let you collect your thoughts .

38:32

Yeah .

38:32

One of the things , matt , that is coming

38:35

out of this conversation that you and I had

38:37

not talked about prior , and it's

38:39

really starting to sit with me in this iteration

38:42

of our discussion . That's a

38:44

we meaning a

38:46

very broad brush . We right

38:48

Not everyone , but it's a pretty broad brush

38:50

have this tendency to hold

38:52

on to our trauma , and

38:54

we call it our adoption trauma or relinquishment

38:57

trauma , but as if it's the only

38:59

trauma in the story right

39:01

. And I'm just

39:03

now listening to your biological

39:06

family was put through

39:08

a ringer as well . And

39:10

to have you know this , this

39:13

human and you've spoken

39:15

to your genetic mirroring and the things

39:17

that you look up and look like and act

39:20

like and potentially sound like

39:22

Wow , can you just imagine

39:24

I'm struggling , that my brain is on fire

39:27

right now what that

39:29

is like on the other side of our conversation

39:31

right . Because all of their trauma

39:34

now is coming , coming back

39:36

to the surface or any of

39:38

their grief . You are handling

39:40

it very well , I must say .

39:42

Thanks , and again , I know I mentioned

39:45

it before , but I know that God's

39:47

hand has been in a lot of this . Other people can call

39:49

it coincidence , that's fine . I can just tell you that

39:51

my wife is in my life for a reason

39:54

. Our past cost for reason , and I

39:56

know that if I hadn't covered any of

39:58

this before meeting her and marrying her , I

40:00

never would have been ready . I think that's an

40:02

important thing to remember . Whether it's a

40:05

significant other that you're not married to , or

40:07

a best friend or your spouse , don't

40:09

be afraid to lean on them , because you

40:11

know that's one of the reasons they're there

40:14

, and if you try to shoulder all this

40:16

, it is . It is information

40:18

over an emotional overload . Coincidences

40:20

, you know , and I guess I

40:23

just want to use an example here , because I think it's from a

40:25

movie , but I think it makes a great kind

40:28

of metaphor . There's a movie

40:30

it's actually it's a scary movie , kind

40:32

of . It's called Signs . It's a

40:34

sci-fi movie about aliens , but

40:36

there's a part that has nothing to do with aliens

40:38

really , though , where the father of the household

40:41

, who's a widow , is sitting with his one of

40:43

his sons . They have a philosophical

40:45

back and forth . The father was still

40:47

grieving the loss of the wife

40:50

from a fierce prior because it was an unexpected

40:52

death . They get into a discussion

40:54

and he says there's two types of people . There's

40:56

those who believe in coincidences and those

40:59

that don't . What if there are no coincidences

41:01

? That means that you know there's fate , and

41:03

I feel like that scene has replayed

41:05

in my head a lot . There's so many things you like

41:07

at look at and think wow , like either thank God

41:10

that person was there or thankfully

41:12

there was a time the timeline unfolded

41:15

the way it did in this way because

41:17

ultimately it was for the best

41:20

for most , for the most part for the people

41:22

involved . I know that at this age now I

41:24

was emotionally I'm emotionally mature enough

41:26

and stable enough , thanks to the help I've had

41:28

from my wife and my close

41:31

friends , to have gone through all this

41:33

, and I completely

41:35

understand why some people can't even talk about any

41:37

of this .

41:37

Yeah , I understand that too right . I

41:39

mean , we can't expect everybody to want

41:42

to tell their story and

41:44

we never know where

41:46

they are in their journey or how they're processing

41:49

. And what I also found really

41:51

interesting about your journey was

41:53

you talked about coincidence . I

41:55

think it's irony . There's some irony

41:58

in your story . And I'd like

42:00

us to . Yeah , just touch on that a little

42:02

bit , because , as you went

42:04

through all of this

42:06

and I started this conversation with

42:09

you know you have a story that we sometimes

42:11

just can't imagine and it rips your heart out

42:13

and it puts it back in and but what's really

42:16

intriguing is the irony

42:18

of proximity when you were growing up

42:20

to your biology , your

42:22

circle was pretty

42:25

intersected . We might be able to

42:27

do a Venn diagram .

42:28

When I started talking to my siblings

42:30

about what part of town they grew

42:33

up in , we found out first off that they

42:35

grew up just a few miles down the road

42:37

. In the 80s my hometown

42:39

was probably about a tenth the

42:41

population that it is now and it's still not even really

42:43

that big . You know , there's basically the

42:45

space industry families that are there were

42:48

service workers and legal medical professionals

42:50

, so it was a town that was just big enough where

42:53

there were some people you didn't know . Odds

42:55

are , if you mentioned someone's

42:57

name , there's probably just

42:59

one person removed where you know there's

43:02

a tie in . We discovered that there

43:04

was at least a four to

43:06

six month stretch where I was

43:09

in the same elementary school

43:11

and possibly even in the same

43:13

classroom because my

43:15

biological brother was held back a

43:17

grade from that traumatic experience

43:19

. He was actually . He was on the

43:21

same timeline as me academic

43:23

wise , and so there's a 50 50

43:25

chance that I was in the same exact classroom

43:28

because there were only two classrooms per grade at

43:30

this school and it gets crazier from there . So

43:32

crazier because I said well , after that

43:34

I went to the Christian school . My

43:37

logical sister said . She said

43:39

, well , yeah , we lived right

43:41

near the Christian school and

43:43

we loved basketball . After school would

43:45

get out . We'd go and play basketball behind

43:48

your school . I would be in class

43:50

and with an ear shot I

43:52

would hear people playing basketball

43:54

Dang . That time I wasn't any

43:56

good , but I played basketball for the

43:59

Christian school from fifth grade

44:01

, all the way through high school , and we

44:03

had to go out and play on the courts

44:05

behind the school . And when we would go out there

44:07

and this is where it just gets insane Basically

44:09

every time our coach would have to go over

44:12

to a couple of kids and say hi , you're

44:14

always welcome to play here when

44:16

our school's in session and

44:18

no teams are using the court . But this is private property

44:21

and we just have to have basketball practice , so can

44:23

you please leave the court ? He didn't say verbatim

44:25

like that , but that was the message and they would go

44:27

their way and

44:29

I'm there just waiting on them to get off the

44:31

court and play basketball . Having no idea

44:33

. Sorry , it's really hard to get through this now

44:36

, getting emotional , having no idea that I

44:38

was waiting on my brother and sister

44:40

to get off the court . And this

44:42

is what's so crazy is my sister said

44:44

there was a time where we were

44:47

playing around and messing with fireworks and

44:49

actually caught a bunch of this bunch of stuff

44:51

on fire right behind your school and I remember

44:53

that clear as day we were definitely crossing

44:55

paths , yeah . So there were

44:57

talking about all those different instances and

44:59

I mean I figured there is at least . You

45:02

basically can't go to any school . Back then you couldn't go to

45:04

the store without seeing someone you knew and

45:06

there was just overlap right , because there's only so many

45:08

places you can get groceries and everything . So

45:10

really realistically looking at

45:12

it , our pass must have crossed with my

45:14

siblings dozens of times . You

45:16

can't help but think , wow , I wish

45:19

I had known . I would have been

45:21

neat to have known . But you also know that it's probably

45:23

for the best that you didn't know . I know that wasn't

45:25

just startling for me , but literally everyone

45:27

involved in my close circle , friends and family

45:30

just kind of a neat thing to look back and reflect

45:32

on .

45:32

Yeah , definitely pinpoints the

45:35

craziness of this journey as

45:37

we continue to find out things

45:39

about ourselves . Well , we're going to wrap up

45:41

and what I want to check

45:44

in with you on what is it that you really

45:46

want the listeners to leave with today

45:48

, matt ?

45:49

The fear is going to be there no matter

45:51

what . Find someone who can help you

45:53

navigate through it . And

45:55

also one thing I wish I kind

45:57

of mentioned before is part

46:00

of that fear may be fear of learning

46:02

that your biological family may have included

46:04

some sides of it that weren't

46:06

perfect , or society may

46:08

frown upon right , but

46:11

there's also going to be things you find out

46:13

that are amazing . I found out that my grandfather

46:15

not only gave Neil Armstrong his first

46:17

plane ride but also

46:20

ultimately ended up working

46:22

on figuring out the trajectory for

46:24

the lunar capsule that Neil Armstrong piloted

46:26

down to the moon , and he was part of a team

46:28

that was recognized with

46:30

a presidential medal of honor

46:33

for it . I never would have known that if

46:35

I had let fear completely

46:37

take over and had

46:39

I not pushed forward . I want to say

46:41

that with all respect , like if someone's not ready

46:43

and makes this a not to , then

46:46

I understand that it's

46:49

tough to navigate these waters . If

46:51

you have a good support system with you and your

46:53

heart starts to feel right about it , let yourself

46:55

know that there's going to be some things you

46:57

can't control . It felt great to

46:59

know that there was this actually really proud

47:02

family history going

47:04

back to that . Just follow your heart

47:06

, but also know that you can overcome the fear

47:08

and make some amazing

47:10

new connections . Possibly , if

47:12

you don't make amazing new connections , then

47:15

I think , no matter what , you

47:17

will at least have some closure

47:19

to areas of your life that

47:21

may not plague you like they would have

47:23

otherwise . Because you know what I

47:25

think I've found out in life and I'll

47:27

close with this is just that the fear of the unknown

47:30

is the worst . I think my

47:33

favorite movie is the first

47:35

Jaws , and it's because they barely show the

47:37

shark at all , but they do show . It doesn't

47:39

look that great , but what everyone

47:41

thinks of when they get in the water isn't the rubber

47:44

shark . They're thinking of that unknown

47:46

like what's below the surface and

47:48

that's what scares us the most and I think for

47:50

a lot of us , a lot of adoptees , when

47:53

we get rid of that unknown , there's a piece

47:55

that's found and I

47:58

hope that everyone who has

48:00

the strength to go through this finds that peace

48:02

.

48:04

Well , well said , matt , and thank you for leaning

48:06

into the conversation and being willing

48:08

to share your journey with

48:11

the listeners . We thank you . You're

48:13

welcome here anytime .

48:14

It's been an honor to speak with you . Thanks so much for having me

48:16

.

48:17

Thank you for listening to today's episode

48:19

. Make sure to rate , review

48:21

and share . Want to join the conversation

48:23

? Contact us at wanderingtreeadoptdcom

48:26

.