0:00

Music is not really what it used to be, because people are making music for TikTok as an advertiser, though, like Jingles are back, which I love.

0:17

Welcome back to Waves powered by Arcade, a show for marketers, creators and entrepreneurs who want to stop chasing the tide and start making waves online.

0:25

We're your hosts, mike and Mitzi, and today we're joined by Kate Tarantiva.

0:30

If you're a marketer on TikTok, you know Kate fondly known as the Internet's creative director.

0:36

She is a force to be reckoned with and we're so excited to have her today on the show.

0:40

Not only is she an accomplished content creator, she is also the co-founder and chief creative officer at Creative Agency Louder and is in the process of launching her own DTC brand.

0:51

Kate is a champion for culturally driven creativity and ideas that fuel brand impact, having enabled public figures and brands across SaaS, fashion and CPG to build market share with creative storytelling.

1:03

She's drawn a following of 65,000 plus across social platforms.

1:07

She has her finger on the pulse of digital culture.

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She hosts Spotify's top 15% most followed podcast and is a trusted voice on platforms like D&D, Insider, Business, Business of Fashion, Thinkific, UNC, Chapel Hill and UCLA.

1:22

On the subject of creative disruption, We'll be talking to Kate about creative direction in the advertising industry and using TikTok to build your audience, and what brands are getting wrong when advertising and marketing to Gen Z.

1:34

Kate, what an impressive resume. We are so excited to have you here.

1:38

Thank you guys so much. I appreciate the very incredible intro.

1:42

Very robust I was going to say Mitzi you nailed that.

1:45

That was awesome, thank you so much.

1:47

Yeah, I was saying before we hit record that I'm a big fan of Kate.

1:51

I saw I discovered your content on TikTok.

1:54

I feel like it's very easy to binge your content, especially if you work in advertising like we do.

1:59

I feel like you're so quick on the pulse even to the reactive things that are happening in real time.

2:05

I love how you share all of that.

2:08

I know that's a big part of your story and how you started doing more content.

2:13

But maybe before we get into that TikTok side of things the content creator side of the work that you do let's talk about how you became a creative director.

2:23

Yeah, great question. So I don't have necessarily the standard path for a creative director.

2:30

I don't know that there really is a standard, to be really honest with you, despite what the industry likes to make people believe, but the average age for creative directors is 40.

2:40

And in North America around like 11 to 12 percent of creative directors are women.

2:46

So you're mostly in a male dominated industry as a woman and also as a man, depending on what you identify as but also you're mostly in a room with people that are considerably older than you.

3:00

If you do decide to become a creative director as somebody who is a little younger, I didn't really go the standard path in terms of climbing a corporate ladder.

3:11

I wasn't really interested in that, to be really honest.

3:14

I kind of wanted to be in very specific rooms at specific times, get what I needed to get out of that role and kind of move on to another experience where I could be helpful and impactful to that brand or that company or that founder.

3:27

So I've been in creative hobbies and in the marketing adjacent world pretty much since childhood, but I didn't really realize that those were anything but hobbies.

3:41

Anytime that you would express like, oh, I want to do something creative.

3:44

Everybody's always like do you want to be an art teacher?

3:47

And there was nothing like marketing related or super bowl commercials or anything of that nature.

3:53

That was like a possibility. And I actually had a friend in college.

3:56

I was designing Tumblr themes like just for shits and giggles and a friend of mine was like, oh, I didn't know, you were interested in graphic design and I was studying international relations at the time in college, thinking I was going to go to law school which was ironic in and of itself because with my grades I would have never.

4:15

But he was like, yeah, I think you should consider a creative career.

4:24

Have you heard of portfolio school? And I obviously hadn't.

4:27

And even to this day in the industry it's very like hush hush or you hear it from somebody you know, but it's not really a widely advertised program like a university program is.

4:38

And so I applied to a bunch of schools all across the country and the world and got into the creative circus, which at the time was one of the top programs for advertising.

4:49

Thought I was going to be a copywriter plot twist, I'm an art director, and yeah and decided to pursue two years of like building a book or a portfolio and what does that look like?

5:04

How does the concept extend into, you know, a billboard or an influencer campaign or a Super Bowl commercial?

5:12

Or how does an idea then extend into all these different executions and be connected?

5:16

And so I think portfolio school for me and for a lot of my peers unlocked like this gift that we had for creative storytelling, as opposed to actually teaching us how to be that, because to a certain extent in this industry you either have it or you don't.

5:32

And so after portfolio school, I mean while I was still in the program, I was getting job offers from Cartier and VaynerMedia.

5:42

I was paying my bills as a content creator.

5:44

So I was establishing like a network of marketers that then were offering me jobs and things like that.

5:49

But I didn't want to go to a big agency.

5:51

I didn't want to work for a big company because I knew I would be there in the same junior or director role like three years later and I wanted to be just a little further along and kind of get to a certain place in my career.

6:03

So I accepted a job in New York and a luxury bridal label.

6:06

I was working for a celebrity designer and also like a really well known creative director in the bridal space.

6:12

It's a startup. We had like three people that were had some remote form of training professionally when it comes to creative, and so I was had a poll tid into these rooms where I'm sitting next to the CEO and we're talking about ideas and we're designing runway steps and we're like picking out playlists for a fashion show and we're with the product and design team figuring out how do you like create a photo shoot that shows off details of this dress.

6:41

So I was getting so much experience that I would have never gotten at like a Droga or a Whiten or a big agency like no shame.

6:51

I just wouldn't have gotten that past like a web banner design thing.

6:54

So yeah it was.

6:56

It was a very like Devil Wears Prada traumatizing type of chapter, but at the same time it was one of the best experiences because there was so much opportunity and that's a small team, so much to do, and so from there I left and I started freelancing and working for some of these companies that I was getting offered jobs from as an independent contractor and began working more robustly with personal brands and public figures and advising like how do you market a public figure or person of influence as a product, the way we would market a brand or a CPG company or, you know, saas, what have you?

7:34

And yeah, and that's kind of how I met my co-founder I was actually consulting for her and then, through us working together, she was like, do you want to start, do you want to start an agency?

7:45

And I was like, do I want to start an agency?

7:49

I guess that's how we started a creative house and my co-founder is amazing.

7:53

She's a product developer. We have the product side of things that I think a lot of agencies do lack and rely on the client a little too much to supply that information.

8:03

She's super knowledgeable about operations and supply chain and those kinds of things that are important to marketing.

8:11

And then I'm on the creative side of things. That's a little bit of my slightly untraditional burning into getting where I am now.

8:20

Yeah, I think untraditional is the best.

8:23

I think, even if you did take the traditional route, you can only learn so much in school.

8:28

I love that you didn't want to wait to have the opportunities and the creative freedom that you wanted.

8:36

I think that sometimes I wish I know you mentioned your age.

8:42

I wish there would be some brands who would be brave enough to hire people who are younger, because it's so funny when you can see a brand who's trying to market to Gen Z or to millennials and you can tell that it's not real and they're trying too hard.

8:58

It's like someone is not at the table who needs to be there.

9:04

It's cool that you made that for yourself and found a way to create that role for yourself and not wait around for people.

9:13

I think that's probably really inspiring to a lot of our listeners.

9:16

Yeah, I hope so. I definitely wish I saw an example of that when I was starting, but any example I would get would be from somebody older.

9:27

It creates this narrative in your mind that unless I'm in my 40s, that's not something I can achieve right now.

9:34

I think that actually there's a lot of experience.

9:38

I don't have that people who are older than me do.

9:40

I'm not discounting that at all. But I also think that there's an opportunity there.

9:45

When you're younger, you are more like it's kind of like childlike imagination.

9:50

You don't know the cause and effect and the consequence for every single thing.

9:56

And that's why you do them, because you don't check yourself immediately I mean within reason, but you're not thinking oh, I can't pursue that idea because it would never work, because legal would say blah, blah, blah, you might not know those things.

10:11

So you pursue the idea and it turns out oh, it actually does work and legal doesn't have a problem with it.

10:15

But if you did know some of those cause and effect things that comes with experience, it can actually prevent you from chasing after those really big ideas and be helpful to the client.

10:26

Be more imaginative, like think bigger, which is what the creative industry encourages, yeah, for sure.

10:32

One thing that I thought was interesting, that you just kind of threw out there, was that you intended to be a copywriter but then you became an art director, and I think that's important for people listening, because I think a lot of us we had intentions for our careers and it's not until you actually start trying things that you really understand one, what you're gifted at, but two, where you just have vision for and bigger ideas.

10:57

Can you just talk about that a little bit more? What was the moment or what was the process for you to go in intending to be a copywriter and come out as an art director and now a creative director, chief creative officer, and be on that kind of side of the table?

11:13

Yeah, I mean, creativity is all about experimentation and I think when we think about that, we think mostly about the projects that we're working on and the output, right.

11:21

But there's so much experimentation, like you said, about your own journey.

11:26

You may evolve, you may realize you have a skill that could be incredibly useful to your role, or a gift gets unlocked, you have a light bulb moment or what have you, and you start running after that or figuring out how you can use that to your advantage.

11:38

Yeah, I was studying international relations in college and so most of my assignments were all written and it was long form and I was writing.

11:46

I was really interested in creative writing and short stories and I was writing poems, but I didn't even consider that there is anything but like copywriting that I maybe could do as a creative.

11:59

But when I actually got, you know, we had orientation and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

12:08

I can't. I can do, maybe, long form, copy. But we're not writing books, we're writing like headlines, and I, my brain, doesn't think like that, it doesn't think in like these punchy, you know one sentence things that will grab people's attention.

12:21

And what was more interesting to me was actually the visual communication side of things, which you know as an art director.

12:27

If you work with a copywriter, you're also directing them in some capacity, like, hey, billboards not big enough for, like the 12 World Word headline.

12:34

You know we're going to need to shorten that. But to me it was more interesting that like how to what image are we choosing?

12:43

What are we communicating? How are we casting models to be part of this?

12:46

What celebrities are we using? What is like the bigger, broader concept and idea?

12:50

And so, because we didn't have like a creative strategy department and the portfolio school I went to we had art direction.

12:57

I was like, well, art direction, if you're directing the art, then that's basically strategy too.

13:02

So I kind of like meshed the two together and I actually found a lot of difficulty finding jobs.

13:08

Prior to starting the agency, I was applying for jobs and then my co-founder pitched me this idea and I was running into the same problem all the time, where it's like you do too many things which we don't know, like we don't.

13:21

We either don't know what to hire you specifically for, because you're creative, so you're eventually going to get burnt out doing that one thing.

13:27

Or it was seen as like well, we want to save money as a business, which I understand, so we're going to make an art director design.

13:36

So we're going to move the art director away from concepting and strategy, which is what they're supposed to be doing.

13:41

We're going to make them design because technically, that's still adjacent to your role.

13:46

I get that as a business owner, you want to save money, and how do you do that?

13:50

You combine certain skill sets and so it makes sense, but it dilutes the role of art direction because all you're really doing is designing.

13:59

So there was certain things like that that I was realizing from an application standpoint and an interview standpoint, like what people were looking for which is actually really helpful in terms of, like now, our hiring process for things.

14:12

Then I think for me it was really what I realized through that process of working with brands is like what I really loved is not even the actual craft of the visual communication, like I'd rather pass that off to a designer.

14:27

It's more so the concepting and the ideation and coming up with a concept that connects to whatever that goal.

14:37

What is the ROI that the brand is looking for?

14:39

What is the problem we're solving? How can we create an emotional connection between them and their audience and use psychology and pop culture and draw all these dots and come up with that idea and then lead a team towards the execution of that idea, whether that be a copywriter, a designer, whoever else gets on board.

14:57

So that was the realization that I had.

15:01

And when the creative field, as I'm sure you guys both know, you look at job descriptions, they all vary.

15:08

So then the click for me it was like, oh, they're all different things, every company is calling it a different thing, so like, why can't I do that?

15:17

Yeah, that's why I thought was so cool about your TikTok content because you're really demystifying what creative directors can do or can bring to an organization.

15:26

A lot of people don't know that and, like you said, a lot of businesses and agencies interpret art director and creative directors differently.

15:34

So I'm wondering if you could just help us figure that out.

15:37

In your opinion, what can a creative director do, what is the role or what is the full potential that they can bring to a project or a team and then versus an art director?

15:50

Maybe you can demystify that a little bit for us.

15:53

Yeah, 100%. So traditionally, an art director is somebody who directs the visual communication of something.

16:00

You are very strategically involved. You should be in the rooms with clients figuring out what are we solving for, what are the insights we're pulling from from the audience?

16:09

It really is creative business problem solving.

16:13

That's essentially what it is when you're using visual communication to do that.

16:17

Ideally as an art director you have direct reports who are stronger executional talent than you.

16:24

You are the thinker, you are the ideation person, but there's somebody on your team who works together with you to execute maybe the verbal communication pieces or the design pieces or certain very nuanced things like animation or those video photo.

16:42

But, like I said, for the sake of business and the agency world, most of the time what ends up happening is you have graphic designers becoming art directors but then lacking that leadership piece that's so required for the job, or you have art directors being put into very heavy design roles.

17:01

That's really more so about identifying what is the person that you're hiring good at?

17:07

What are they not good at? I think that if you're hiring an art director who is very strategically strong and you're making them do execution and getting into the nitty-gritty of illustrator, that may actually be backfiring, not only for the person you hired, but actually for the entire project and the entire team, because you're not using that person to their fullest extent and their maximum potential.

17:27

When it comes to a creative director, I mean, that's way less execution at that point.

17:34

What you're executing now is like morale and team spirit.

17:38

You are everybody's cheerleader, making sure that people are motivated, that they're working well together.

17:44

It's your job to implement more so soft skills than hard skills.

17:49

The skills that you're implementing are things like well, susie doesn't work well with George, but Jason does.

17:55

So I think we need to switch the teams, because that's going to help keep everybody working towards that vision.

18:03

We're not going to have kinks in the project in terms of team-related things.

18:06

The client's going to be happier. You're also correlating with the client on a bigger level and understanding like what is it that they're looking for from this project?

18:16

You are also ideally letting your teams pitch the ideas that they came up with, as opposed to taking credit for everything, so it's really like leadership and all of that trickles down.

18:27

So it's on you, as the creative director, to create the culture for your creative team as a whole, figuring out who does well and what, identifying strengths and weaknesses.

18:36

So it's actually more so of a management position than it is a creative position.

18:41

It's just the creative part is like well, I did the creative executing at one point in my career so I know how to direct it and know how to critique it.

18:50

But it really is more so a management role, which I think is what gets like.

18:54

There's a misconception, or that gets kind of misconstrued a lot of the time because it sounds like such a sexy job based on public figures that we see as creative directors or fashion designers.

19:06

But there's a lot of people involved behind the scenes that they're actually managing towards that output, that they're creatively.

19:13

Totally. Yeah, managing people can be such a beast and it's definitely not for everyone.

19:18

So it takes a certain kind of person who can be creative and lead with their strengths there but also be like really good with people and managing teams.

19:31

Yeah.

19:32

Cause, like I don't know, that's something that I had to learn. It's a learned skill for me.

19:36

Some people are, like, really naturally gifted in that area, but it's not easy, so I love that you like specify that, like so much of that role is leadership and you know, supporting people.

19:49

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I definitely see, like you know, when people say like, oh, they want to be like the CEO of a business, like there's something so sexy and like glamorous about that, and I see a lot of the same attitude applied towards creative direction, until people actually get into the job and they're like, oh, I'm not creating anything, I'm people managing and I have to, like you know, use empathy and make sure people were working well together, and I'm kind of like a home room teacher in a sense.

20:15

But for like a creative team, then they're like no, no, no, no, no.

20:18

I don't want to do that. This is not what I signed up for, which there are ways to around that.

20:22

You know, like as a photographer, oftentimes they're a creative director but they're executing things so like.

20:28

I think it's also about exploring what are you really good at, being honest with yourself about your strengths and weaknesses and then also looking into are you more so of a thinker or are you more so of an executional type of person?

20:40

Do you like working with people? Because if you do, you might have the potential being a great creative director, but if you don't, that's kind of like off the table altogether.

20:48

You know Right.

20:49

Totally. Yeah, I'm going to talk and, like I mentioned, you're one of my favorite people to follow.

20:54

Tell me about your journey, like how did you get started there and start talking about what you're doing, and like how does it support what you do in your work outside of TikTok?

21:06

Yeah, on accident.

21:08

I think that's like everybody's story, which is more I talk to.

21:12

They're like I was supposed to a video and then it, you know, took off and for me the video I posted didn't age well, it was a.

21:19

I broke down a product placement segment on Carpal Kuriogi with Lizzo and for Yiti and in like 24 hours it got 2.1 million views and I was like, wow, people like ads apparently and they like to hear other people talk about ads.

21:37

I had no idea, I thought it was just me and, like my friends and everybody in the advertising world I didn't know regular people enjoyed that stuff and I just kind of continued after that like reviewing and critiquing ads, like in basically kind of in public on the internet.

21:55

And I had before actually I did advertising content.

21:58

I was doing more so like personal branding type of content and showcasing okay.

22:04

So if you know you have, take somebody like Selena Gomez or Bad Bunny how do they create a brand out of themselves, market themselves as a product and then ultimately create businesses out of that, whether it be a liquor business, a beauty business, like.

22:18

How did those things happen? But I didn't really feel super aligned with that content.

22:23

It's like part of my background, but it's not the thing I wanted to be really like, known for or kind of a point person for.

22:28

And so, yeah, I posted that video about about Lizzo and her brand, and it just took off and afterwards started sharing things about what other brands are doing and breaking down the sound like art direction things and calling out the design principles that are being used and sharing ideas.

22:46

And then this year I also, again on accident, kind of shared a video just introducing myself that, like I'm a creative director, I have an agency.

22:56

I share a lot about what that means, and that went crazy of people being asking questions about what is a creative director?

23:03

How do I get into that? Is it just fashion?

23:06

Can I be that in like theater?

23:08

Can I do it in music? How does this job work?

23:11

And so it kind of added another pillar to my content and sense of, like you said earlier, demystifying like what is creative direction?

23:18

How can you get there? Because, honestly, I wish somebody did that for me earlier, maybe in high school, maybe I wouldn't have gone to college and I would have gone straight to portfolio school or something.

23:28

And so it's been really helpful to see, like how inspiring that has been to new and emerging talent to realize that like, oh, there are so many things that they can pursue in the creative industry beyond.

23:40

You know some of the things that they were told in school or you know, by a teacher or something of that nature.

23:47

Cool. And now I know you have like a course too on like how to become a creative director, which is like super cool, like you're kind of taking that step in the education space, like you said, like you wish that existed before, or at least like a baby step in that direction, so that other people can explore that for themselves.

24:06

What made you want to do that?

24:08

Yeah, it was the same kind of story where I mean I've paid way too much money for portfolio school.

24:13

They're expensive. There's now like a ton of free options as well, which is great, but you probably don't really know about them unless you know that you want to be an art director or be a copywriter or do graphic design full time and work in an agency space.

24:26

So you already have to be informed before you make that decision to apply, and I didn't really see anything that was catering to people who had like a fascination with this industry but didn't really know where to go with that fascination.

24:40

So it was, like you said, like a little bit of a baby step in terms of this is what a creative director is.

24:45

These are the responsibilities. Here are the industries that have them.

24:49

Here is a list of like portfolio schools.

24:52

If you want to go into advertising, here's a list of programs that are in like fashion and you know.

24:57

So it's been really helpful. I've gotten feedback from people saying that like, oh, I actually applied and I got into this program and I'm really excited I wouldn't have known about it or even putting in requests for like future courses.

25:11

I'm like back on a backlog now, like requests of how do I build a portfolio and like what goes into that, and what websites do I use, and you know how do I apply for jobs and know what I'm applying for.

25:22

So it's kind of like snowballed and I didn't even really even think that that was going to be interesting to people whatsoever.

25:29

But, yeah, it definitely called out not only that there's interest, but there's just like a lack of awareness, which is crazy because it means we're literally in the same exact spot that we were when I was applying to portfolio school, totally, I think.

25:45

To me it like even your breakdowns of like campaigns and things it just feels like there's clearly a gap in education for the creative advertising industry because and like we've done this, like I went to a traditional university as well and you know the things I learned were so outdated and you know not to discount that because I'm grateful that I had that experience.

26:06

I know lots of people can't go to university, but the way it relates to my day to day work is just so off.

26:14

So to me it feels like you know these platforms like TikTok or even your mini course or things like that can be like living curriculum and you can learn so much from the people who are actually practicing the craft that you want to do.

26:29

That's why I love like what you're doing on TikTok, because it's almost like a little mini lecture and like if you're interested in this thing, you get so much of that from someone who's actually working in the industry and relevant to like a current campaign, like sometimes even in like textbooks and things like that.

26:47

They're just so dated. What you're reviewing and analyzing is so dated, but like this is happening right now, right in this moment, like you can still learn so much in real time, and that's why I appreciate your content so much.

27:00

Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, I definitely want anybody who views it to feel that way and also to understand that like, because the industry is so reactive and it's so reliant on pop culture, there's not really like a standard for what is a good and what isn't a good idea.

27:18

It's like what's culturally relevant, what are people interested in?

27:21

How can we make people talk, how can we meet them halfway about topics that they're already discussing, and so it's encourage.

27:28

It kind of encourages, I think, younger talent to really like pursue ideas that they have, as opposed to say, oh well, I don't know enough about how the industry works, so I'm not going to pursue these ideas.

27:39

I think they're just going to like defeats the purpose of having younger voices and Gen Z and Gen Alpha like enter these spaces and culturally guide some of the older generation towards what's relevant and what's important.

27:52

Now.

27:55

I'm curious about your social channels and how you've leveraged that, because I know it's obviously really built around your personal brand.

28:03

But then you launched an agency. So can you talk to us a little bit about how those social channels were part of your launch strategy if they were at all and how you kind of visualize that side of your creativity kind of merging with what you're doing on the agency side with your partner?

28:20

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, when we launched, we didn't have a portfolio as an agency, so the challenge was how do you show that you are credible?

28:29

And so it was kind of like a no-brainer for us in sense of, well, we have a co-founder that has personal brand equity, talking about literally the exact same thing that we have an agency in, and so it allowed for clients to go and find, let's say, me on the internet, watch through some of my content similarly to how anybody else would do it, and be like, oh okay, I understand how this then process could be applied to something that I'm working with them on or a project that is coming through louder stores.

29:03

So it's been really helpful.

29:05

It's also been incredible in terms of a client pipeline and connecting with other founders, because that was already a majority of people that were in my audience anyway.

29:16

So, yeah, I mean it's something also that I've mentioned when I would advise public figures is like if you're launching a business, it has to be relevant to whatever it is that you already have a personal presence in or influence in, because it just makes sense to people.

29:33

You're not climbing yet another uphill battle to establish credibility in something completely and utterly new.

29:39

I mean, it's possible and people have done it, but it is hard work and so being able to leverage like a personal brand and something that is very relevant to advertising and then having an agency that is in the advertising field, it's just kind of like a.

29:55

It was very seamless in terms of connecting us with people and also talent.

30:03

I had no idea that when I would say that I have an agency, that I would be getting like 15 to 20 emails of portfolios and resumes and people that are like I just want to work for you.

30:12

I don't care if it's for free, I'm like I care, but it's been really cool, both on the client side of things and connecting us with really cool people building interesting products and brands, but also connecting us with emerging talent that wants the experience and is hungry to make a name for themselves in the creative field as well.

30:32

Yeah, we've found the same thing. We Mitzi does more personally on TikTok than I do, but we have an agency account on TikTok and we treat it very differently from Instagram or any other channel.

30:43

A lot of it is just like commentary on what it's like to be at an agency and like some of the funny things and making fun of ourselves.

30:50

But even in that sense, without even purely showing expertise, it still created so many opportunities like either on the brand side, as, like potential clients or even some of the people that work for us now came and discovered us through TikTok.

31:04

So it's such an interesting channel for sure, and tons of opportunity continues to be there.

31:11

Yeah, and it's smart that you guys also have an agency account, because it shows like your culture at Arcade and like what your clients can be a part of, or potential team members if somebody wants to join the team too like what they can expect from working with you all.

31:26

Totally.

31:26

Yeah, it's fun. I think our team I'm pretty sure they have a good time.

31:29

Yesterday they were filming a bunch of TikToks and it's like fun to just like see the like scenarios happening.

31:36

But I want to talk a little bit about like your content on TikTok.

31:40

Like one thing I mentioned already is that you break down advertising campaigns and I'm curious if you have, as you've been like doing that work.

31:49

Do you feel like there's some common things that brands are getting wrong about marketing to Gen Z or millennials in general?

31:56

We've seen like big brands kind of shift from this, but I still see a lot of it and I'm almost like, oh, somebody Gen Z is missing from this team.

32:04

It's like blatantly obvious, but it's the like kind of corporate brand forward.

32:10

Like we're up here as a brand and you as a customer, like down here, we're talking down to you about what we know and our you know, our expertise as a brand and all these features and things that we think we know that you'd like.

32:24

Gen Z like doesn't like being sold to.

32:30

Like that, I would argue millennials don't either.

32:32

They want to see that a brand they can see like a friend in the brands that they're buying from.

32:40

And so I remember was it 2019 when McDonald's decided that they were going to do their famous orders campaign and I was reading about it actually in like the team that was working on it and essentially the problem they were finding was, like Gen Z and millennials like don't have the same brand recognition for McDonald's.

33:01

It's like older generations do, and so they don't really see it as like this cool, nostalgic brand.

33:06

It's like it's gross and it's fast food and why would I want that?

33:10

I'm going to go to Kava or like sweet green or something of that nature, and they also were not really resonating with, like, the very corporate, boring, bland tone that McDonald's was giving to them.

33:23

And so they decided that the issue was there was no like resonance or emotional connection, because it kind of felt like the brand was looking down on its own customers.

33:35

And so they decided like, oh well, what are the things that these generations are talking about that are interesting to them?

33:40

Well, they love music, they love celebrity culture, they're into fandoms.

33:45

We have famous celebrity customers.

33:47

Why can't we show that we are a fan of the same people our customers are and that these people are also our customers?

33:55

So like not only are you participating in fandom culture as a brand, you're also then kind of putting your customer on a pedestal because you're taking their order, their customizations, and putting it on like a temporary menu for other people to partake in and enjoy.

34:09

And so they did. I think the first one was with Travis Scott and it just it blew out of the water, like I think it blew their expectations with how much sales it was able to make them.

34:20

And they were also pushing like app downloads because there were certain like merch things that people could buy from the app and it really got Gen Z and millennials excited to buy from a brand that they otherwise wouldn't really buy from, because there's, you know, now they can bond with McDonald's over like fandom which is wild, but it was just you know and same thing kind of, with like the characters they brought back with like grimace and all of that kind of stuff.

34:46

So I think there's it's really like not just understanding culture, it's like understanding subcultures and also like what are these generations interested in and meeting them, where they are, kind of becoming one with them and participating in a conversation.

35:01

And I think the other thing too is that a lot of brands assume that Gen Z and millennials don't like being sold to period.

35:08

It's like, no, we love to spend money, like we want to buy from brands and we want to find the coolest new things and we love trends like hello, tiktok, right, but we don't want to be sold to in a way that feels so stagnant and that really like makes us feel like we're just a wallet to a company and instead we want to feel like what is the culture here?

35:27

Like, what are the? You know, I think even during like Black Lives Matter, people started looking up companies and who these, these the teams are within these companies.

35:37

Who are the investors? They're interested to know more about the culture of these companies, the values they portray, and I think selling that and putting that into the advertising versus just the features and product benefits is so much more important when it comes to like Gen Z and the younger generations.

35:59

So valid.

36:00

Yeah, I want to talk about trends.

36:02

I was just going to say I really wanted one of those Travis Scott McDonald's, like chicken nugget.

36:07

They were so good, like it was so that March collection was brilliant.

36:11

It was so good, so sad. It sold out. Yeah, and it was a great time for Obani to add to the groupinnen formats to chat with.

36:17

I want to talk about trends because you mentioned, like you know, culture and like subculture or pop culture.

36:22

I think there is. At least.

36:24

What we've seen a little bit is that some creative leaders feel like trends might cheapen their brand or it's very surface level and like not a like true deep connection with an audience.

36:36

I think there's a way to do it well and I'm sure you have opinions about that.

36:41

But when you think about creative campaigns and leaning into trends or culture, like what's your approach to doing that in a way that feels like a bit more substantial, like how do you approach trends?

36:54

And maybe even like I know we have listeners who oversee brand marketing like how can they get into trends without just like doing a trending sound on TikTok?

37:02

Like how can they have like a deeper trend kind of engagement that actually makes an impact into their business?

37:10

Yeah, that's a great question. I think trends cheapen your brand if you hop onto them without any intention and thinking about okay, gut check, does this trend relate to, you know, the North Star of our company?

37:26

Does it communicate something about our brand?

37:29

Does it like help us build an audience within that subculture that the trend is coming from?

37:35

And then the other thing is like, does this trend have longevity or can it be spun as nostalgia in the future?

37:42

So like, for instance, I personally think that the like you know, beyonce concerts, especially the Renaissance tour, there was that moment where she would say everybody on mute in her song and everybody's like silent, dead silent, and like some cities.

38:01

It was funny because the people were like, they were like city rivalries coming out of that.

38:05

I was really, really thrilled for Atlanta, atlanta was mute, they were, yes, they did they showed up.

38:11

I saw the videos. They were them, and DC did like the best.

38:16

They did so good. I was like, yes, city pride, but I think that is an example of something that could be even utilized next year.

38:25

I was seeing some creators peers of mine actually saying like, oh, it would be brilliant to do like a commercial with that thing and you could even I'm actually citing an example.

38:34

I think Nikki Riordan and Cocoa Moco on TikTok were proposing a Super Bowl commercial with Beyonce for Doritos and they were like, oh, yeah, she should say like it should basically kind of mimic her concert and she says everybody on mute.

38:51

And then there's one person that's like opening a chip bag or like crunching on a Dorito, and so it kind of sells.

38:57

Like, oh, this is really crunchy chip type of thing and I thought that was such a brilliant idea and it's like it is born out of a trend.

39:03

But because, like this is part of somebody's music catalog and also really well known celebrity that just like maintains relevancy forever, it seems like that could be something that could be spun as nostalgia and so, like fans could participate in that moment and talk about my God remember when we were there and she said that in person like there's so many different subcultures that could kind of like revive this trending moment into now, a memory, a piece of nostalgia, but also a selling point for a company.

39:33

So I think that's a great way, for instance, to use like a trending sound or something to figure out.

39:40

Does it have longevity?

39:43

Can you use it as nostalgia?

39:45

Can you tap into people's memories later, because you don't want something that people are not going to remember for more than two minutes you know For sure and you're right, that example connects to the subculture, like that moment means something to Beyonce fans, so it's like connecting them to be like okay, you know and you recognize and I know, like I was there, so you're right, it's like a way to like build connection, not just like jump onto something that people are talking about, right.

40:11

The thing. The other thing that stood out to me about that example too is it's like the trend is present, but it's more.

40:16

The trend in the fandom is more the environment, but the brand or the product is still.

40:22

It's the focal point in that situation.

40:25

Exactly.

40:26

So many brands are getting on trends just to do the trend, so that they're part of the conversation without involving their actual brand or product in any meaningful way.

40:35

So I think that's a really valuable example.

40:37

Yeah, that's such a good point and kind of like you inspired me to think of.

40:41

Basically, I think, a great way for brands to see if a trend is worth implementing, like does it help me grow within a particular culture, within a particular audience?

40:52

Because trends are really great for brand awareness but they flop if you don't know who you're raising awareness amongst or what that trend is relevant to.

41:00

A brand that is black owned, it may be helpful for them to participate in, like black subculture trends because that's their audience that they're targeting.

41:11

If it doesn't really raise awareness for a particular community that you're looking to target or it doesn't convert within a particular community, then it might not be the best use of a team's time to simply like use a trending moment or trending sound willy-nilly yeah totally.

41:26

That's a good disclaimer. I know we've talked about TikTok quite a bit In your opinion, like can TikTok inform creative campaigns or should they?

41:37

They are is the reality, you know.

41:40

I mean, I think TikTok is such a great they're, of course, caveats, and I was actually talking with a friend of mine who's a recording artist who was kind of complaining that music is not really what it used to be, because people are making music for TikTok as an advertiser, though, like Jingles are back, which I love, thanks to TikTok, you know, and so that is actually like a really positive thing, because then you can get like really great brand recognition out of a brand song or there's just more of like that joyous component to advertising that I think we're missing in billboards and that we may have been even missing in like traditional TV sometimes.

42:21

So I've actually seen that not only is our brands putting a lot of their money into TikTok, because that's just where people are, it's actually informing the way that they present advertising then on other platforms and other channels that they have.

42:35

How do we make our TV commercial just as entertaining?

42:39

How do we make that TV commercial tie back to a TikTok trend or like those types of things?

42:45

So yeah, it's 100% informing creative, not only natively in the platform but also in other distribution channels and other places that brands may choose to advertise themselves, whether it's a traditional pop-up or out-of-home experience, or it's another digital channel.

43:04

Love it.

43:05

So good.

43:06

Yeah, you've shared a lot about what it means to be a creative director and what it looks like, which is great because we discussed it's always been one of those.

43:15

If you know, you know kind of things. But I'm wondering if, before we go, if there's some simple takeaways you can share with our audience on even just how to get started.

43:24

I know you took a non-traditional path.

43:26

What kind of tips are you sharing with people as they ask about how to just get on that, any sort of path towards becoming a creative director?

43:34

Yeah, I think I would say start with one place which is like gotta get really honest with yourself and like super self-aware.

43:42

Am I a thinker and I like ideas, or am I a doer and do I like to execute the ideas, or I'm more the executional part of the talent?

43:51

Both are incredibly important. I think some people are like no, I want to be the idea person.

43:55

That's just not sexier. But like the idea is one thing, but it also relies on the execution.

44:00

So each side is really important. I would ask myself that for me personally, I love the idea part.

44:08

You asked me to design a logo and I'll be like you know.

44:13

So that's kind of like a great place to start, because as you climb further towards creative director, you will be more involved in the ideation space.

44:25

So you have to be okay with that. And sometimes it can translate where somebody who really loves the executional arm can become kind of like a micromanager towards the executional talent.

44:36

So you now have to trust that you are hiring people way better than you that are able to execute that idea exactly how you want it or in a totally different way.

44:46

That's actually better than what you envisioned.

44:48

And the other part is do you enjoy people management?

44:52

It's not even like do you have people management skills.

44:54

It's like do you like managing other people?

44:56

Do you like working together in teams and dealing with client issues, which may be good?

45:01

or bad resolution.

45:03

Yeah, exactly, oh, my God, yes, having difficult conversations like is that a strong suit that you have?

45:09

Are you willing to have them? Often those, I think, are the questions I would be asking myself if I want to become a creative director, versus do I have, like, just good ideas, or can I design something, or can I make something?

45:21

That's great. It'll be really helpful earlier in somebody's career, but the further you go, the more it's like nebulous in terms of responsibilities.

45:30

And it's really more about working with people and ensuring that you're a good leader and that you don't have people talking about you the way some of us talk about our former bosses, and that people actually enjoy working with you and that they see you as somebody who is invested into their career.

45:49

Because to assume that you're going to be the last person they work for, I mean, that's just kind of like.

45:54

It's just not true. So like they're going to be going to another boss, they're going to be going to another job.

45:58

Have you equipped them with exactly what they needed to get from this?

46:02

So it's about gut checking yourself.

46:05

If you're a good leader, can you manage people and also like, can you lead an idea from concept towards execution, whether it's you're working with a small team or a large team.

46:15

So those are kind of it's like more soft-skilled type of questions that I would ask myself, as opposed to just can I make something?

46:23

Because everybody can make something, you know, and it's going to be cool in its own different way.

46:28

But the that may mean that if the only thing that you'd like to do is like to make things and to bring things to life in terms of executionally, then there are plenty of executional roles that are helpful and needed, but it may not be that a creative director is like the best fit, you know, yeah.

46:47

Yeah, that's so helpful and I know it's going to be super valuable for our listeners who are in the creative industry.

46:52

So thank you so much for walking through this.

46:54

We have one last question that we'd like to ask all of our guests.

46:57

So who is making waves right now and why?

47:02

Oh, Hugo Boss.

47:04

I'm surprised. I love their yeah, I love their creator marketing initiatives.

47:12

They've been really good at like hopping into, like creators across different spaces within lifestyle, fashion and beauty, and even like entertainment, and bringing those people into really, really meaningful content opportunities and working with them with interesting ways.

47:30

I am blown away, honestly, that I even said Hugo Boss because I feel like three, four years ago I would have never even brought them up for any reason whatsoever.

47:38

But they've been doing such a great job with incorporating influencers in meaningful ways, like to girl and, you know, finding ways to work with creators.

47:48

That is interesting to Gen Z, because Hugo Boss used to be like a really older kind of brand, you know.

47:55

So I think they're doing a pretty good job in terms of staying relevant amongst a newer generation that will find them interesting and captivating and hopefully also their products worth buying For sure.

48:07

Yeah, that's an interesting example.

48:09

I'm going to dive into that. I didn't know that they were working with Tube Girl.

48:11

That's cool.

48:12

Yeah, they did something similar to like I mean, a lot of them have been using her like friend and inviting her to do that but they actually did more like commercial style paid ads between different creators and it was about it was all like very office themed for their new collection.

48:32

And I think part of the script for Tube Girl was like there was another creator with her and she was acting like the boss and Tube Girl comes in and she's late because you know she doesn't control the tube, and so that was like the script.

48:45

It was kind of cute, you know, so fun.

48:47

Yeah, I'll look that up. That's awesome, yeah, okay Well, thank you so much for your time, kate.

48:51

Our very last question for you is where can listeners connect with you?

48:54

Oh my gosh everywhere. Yeah, I'm available on LinkedIn, hiktok, instagram at Katarina Tarantiva.

49:04

It is maybe a little hard to spell, but I've passed on all my links to Mike and Mitzi, so hopefully We'll drop them in the show notes.

49:12

They'll be there Definitely.

49:13

Perfect, so that should be an easy, easy way to find me.

49:17

Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your insight and also for wearing that great jacket to this movie.

49:24

Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it Again.

49:26

This is a huge like full circle moment. I love your show, highly recommend anybody to keep listening to your show because it's so insightful and I'm just honored to be here with you.

49:35

Thank you so much.