0:04

Hello, oh my voice is breaking

0:06

Josh. Oh you've reached that age. News, look at that.

0:09

Hello, welcome to We Are History. I am Angela

0:11

Barnes. I'm John O'Farrell. And don't forget

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you John? Yeah, you get a free

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car. I

0:34

think you get a little flat in town as well. And

0:36

don't forget to subscribe listeners and then it

0:38

just downloads automatically

0:47

onto your cassette recorder, which is

0:49

how these things work. It's magic. I don't really

0:52

understand it Angela. It's weird

0:53

because no one can tell you bluff

0:56

it so well. What are we

0:58

talking about this week Angela?

1:00

Well, it's that time of year

1:02

John. Oh yeah. Isn't it? Yes.

1:05

What are you doing this time of

1:07

year? I'm leading on this one because I've got

1:09

strong feelings about this subject Angela and

1:11

I'm going to bore you with them.

1:12

Are you? Brilliant. I'm

1:15

such a lucky girl. So we

1:17

thought this week we'd look back at the infamous

1:19

gunpowder plot in 1605. See

1:21

what actually happened, how it played out, the impact

1:24

it had at the time and the way its memory was

1:26

used by people in power to further their agenda

1:28

John.

1:29

Oh indeed. Yeah. Well, this is all history

1:31

isn't it? That's always used to further their agendas. Angela,

1:34

childhood memories of bonfire night? I loved

1:36

bonfire night when I was a kid because it was just before

1:38

my birthday. So I was getting in or you

1:41

know, when you were a kid, you get excited about your birthday.

1:44

So you go bonfire night meant it was my birthday

1:46

in a couple of days. So yeah, I

1:48

loved it. But in those days you had proper bonfires.

1:50

In the garden with the family. And it was actually

1:53

cold. Yeah. Like you'd

1:55

wrap up and your fingertips would be cold. Whereas

1:57

now, if I go to a

1:59

a firework display or something now, you wrap up

2:02

warm and go I'm too hot. That

2:04

might not be global warming, it might be just the time of

2:06

life, who knows? It might be, yeah, fair

2:09

point. I just heard something exciting

2:11

about being a child and being allowed out at night and

2:13

then to be allowed to write your name with a sparkler

2:15

and have Dad lean in and

2:17

light the firework and it to go out and Mum

2:20

would say don't go back to it and she was serving up

2:22

jack of potatoes and mulled wine. Happy days.

2:25

We could potato soup, we always used to have. I

2:28

remember cycling down my road

2:29

and every garden had a

2:32

bonfire in it and the kids standing around and that was the tradition

2:35

back then. Before it became much more centralised

2:37

and counselled. It was a really

2:38

big thing, they don't do the bonfires anymore

2:40

do they? It's just firework to speak now. My

2:43

dog is quite okay with firework,

2:45

she sits on the balcony and watches them. But

2:48

I know a lot of people whose pets are really affected

2:50

by it and I know farm animals are affected by

2:52

it and stuff like that and I just go is it worth it for that

2:54

one night? I used to think it was so brilliant when I was a

2:56

kid and then when I heard grown ups talking about limiting

2:58

it I thought I don't spoil all the fun and now I'm thinking

3:01

oh the poor dogs. Yeah

3:03

it just makes me really sad when I think because they don't

3:05

know what's happening do they? Yes.

3:08

But it really affects them. But it has

3:10

sort of declined.

3:11

Yeah, we're sort of

3:14

more about Halloween now aren't we? When

3:16

I was a kid we didn't do anything for Halloween. No.

3:19

I remember actually we didn't know what trick or treat was,

3:21

we'd heard the phrase trick or treat but no

3:23

one did it when we were kids. And it just

3:26

sort of started when I was I guess about 11

3:29

or 12. There's a couple of people obviously seen

3:31

it on films in America. And

3:33

I remember somebody rang the doorbell and my mum answered

3:35

it and they said trick or treat and my mum went oh treat

3:37

and took all of this.

3:38

I said no mum, it's just not a chance

3:40

sweet. They

3:42

weren't

3:43

off for you mum. I was not doing that. I

3:45

mean when I was just coming in I remember answering my front

3:47

door and it was about October 25th

3:50

and these two tall scary 15, 16,

3:53

17 year olds just stood at the door and went trick

3:55

or treat. They weren't in costume, it

3:57

wasn't Halloween. They were just coming out of my house. I'm

4:00

asking for shit.

4:00

Maybe they were like five year olds dressed as

4:02

teenagers.

4:03

Scary hoodies. Maybe that's what it was. Yes,

4:05

well it was certainly scared me. But

4:08

I lament the loss of the

4:10

English culture that went from fire

4:12

to night. And it's another example

4:14

of us importing American culture,

4:17

displacing our own culture and

4:19

our own history. I know that things

4:21

move on and that America is a sort

4:23

of dominant cultural and economic

4:25

powerhouse and that it's natural that we

4:27

would start to sort of be in their shadow. We have

4:29

just put a Hollywood film on the West End John.

4:32

Fair point about

4:34

English culture. We put a Shakespearean

4:37

musical on Broadway. There you go. It's just an

4:39

exchange program. Exactly. I can't

4:41

make for a second. No, that's a fair point. But

4:44

Halloween of course is a European

4:46

festival, probably pre-Christian festival

4:48

that was adapted into the Christian festival,

4:51

night before all souls night. And then

4:54

went to America and became its own thing and has come back again

4:56

in a different way. You know, these

4:58

things evolve and change. I'm not

5:00

going to say it's not a little bit sad. When

5:02

I was a kid, lovely English traditions

5:04

like letting off bangers and throwing them out the upstairs

5:06

of the bus, yobs throwing air bombs

5:08

around after closing time and traumatizing

5:10

the pets. Quaint old British customs like

5:13

that. Andrew, I miss them. Do

5:15

you remember paying for the guy?

5:16

I do. I remember some friends and

5:18

I made the guy once and put it in her

5:20

little brother's push chair

5:21

and pushed it round. You

5:23

went around. You went around. Extortion.

5:26

You paid money from old ladies for your rubbish. We

5:29

did. Spent it on sweets at the shop. It was great.

5:32

Yes. I remember when I first moved London, the

5:34

kids were still doing it in the 80s. This

5:36

little street urchin said, pay for the guy. I

5:39

remember giving him 50p and saying, don't spend it on glue.

5:43

So where do we start, Angela?

5:45

How far back should we go

5:48

discussing the Guy Fawkes

5:51

plot, the Gunpowder plot? Don't ask me, John, because you know what

5:53

will happen. I think it's best that you make this decision.

5:56

There was this big thing called the Reformation

5:58

in Europe. The split

6:01

in the Christian Church leading the division between the

6:03

Roman Catholics and the Protestants. I think it's fair to say

6:06

things got preheated

6:07

from time to time. Angela? We haven't done an episode on that.

6:10

Hi. We're pretty massive. It's like doing the Second

6:12

World War. Well, yeah, it is. But,

6:15

you know, fair to say feelings were running high, Angela?

6:17

Yeah, I think that's fair to say.

6:19

Yeah. I mean, we'll take it as read that the listeners

6:22

know about.

6:22

I wonder if there's one listener somewhere sitting listening

6:25

to this in shock, going, wait, what, there's

6:27

more than one type of Christian Church?

6:29

Anyway,

6:31

well, sorry to shock you, listener. But yeah, the

6:33

Reformation was this big thing. And of course, by

6:36

the time we get to 1600, Europe

6:39

is very divided. And Britain has

6:41

been divided. It's gone back and forth. Queen Mary was

6:43

a Catholic. But then Queen Elizabeth

6:45

I had been a Protestant in the latter

6:48

half of the 16th century. And

6:50

her reign had seen increasing persecution

6:52

of Catholics in England. People were fined a

6:54

shilling, a shilling, Angela, if they absented

6:57

themselves from the service of the Church of England. It's

6:59

about

6:59

five p.m. in it. Any money? Yeah.

7:01

I'm pretty sure it was quite a bit more back then. And

7:04

of course, decimalisation came in much later than that. That's late

7:06

in that, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, thanks.

7:08

I didn't want to get it clear. So

7:10

these non-attenders at church were called recusants.

7:14

How do you pronounce that? Recusants. Recusants. Recusants.

7:18

What were we reading, Buck? Yeah, I know. The

7:20

recusants. We

7:23

could have checked, but where's the fun in that? I know.

7:26

It was particularly applied to Catholics, that phrase. And

7:29

in 1593, another law, Angela,

7:31

required Catholics

7:31

to remain within five miles of their homes, which

7:34

is pretty draconian, isn't it? Yeah. And

7:36

of course, it was high treason to import or publish

7:38

any official documents from the Vatican. Well,

7:41

that's the pope just messaging John there. Yeah,

7:43

you're not messaging. I don't know if you know that. So you're

7:45

talking about us.

7:46

So it was illegal, of course,

7:48

to be a Catholic priest at this time. Absolutely.

7:51

So famously, a lot of stately homes, when you visit them,

7:52

they have those priest holes, don't they? Yes, right. They

7:55

hid in little behind fireplaces

7:58

or in the roofs and stuff. Yeah. So

8:00

when the authorities turned up

8:02

looking for them, you could hide your priests.

8:04

I've had such a euphemism, doesn't it? As does

8:06

pre-soul. I know,

8:09

let's be honest.

8:10

I think we've got quite a few euphemisms

8:12

in it.

8:13

That's the way our minds work, I think. So

8:15

the best estimate for the number of Catholics in England at

8:17

this time is about 1% or 40,000. But

8:21

this was those who practiced. If the country had switched

8:24

to Catholicism again, it wouldn't have been 99% resisting. No,

8:27

most of these Catholics, it should be said, were loyal to

8:29

their monarch and they didn't want any trouble.

8:31

You know, just want to worship in peace. It's

8:34

not a hill to die on this. No, quite. They've waited

8:36

a long time for the death of Elizabeth, with

8:39

hope that the new monarch would bring an end to their persecution.

8:42

And then in 1603, Elizabeth

8:43

finally dies. The

8:46

theories aren't there about how she died, that she might have died by

8:48

lead and mercury poisoning. That's right,

8:51

yes. Because

8:51

this white powdery substance that they used,

8:54

or she used to lighten her skin, which

8:56

is known as, and this is another

8:57

word that I've just read, John, so I'm going

8:59

to take a run up at it. Venetian, I

9:01

can do that word. Venetian, serous?

9:03

I think so. Do you think? Yeah.

9:05

C-E-R-U-S-E. What is that? It's a substance

9:07

that contained loads of lead.

9:10

Okay. Basically, lead exposure over time.

9:12

Not good for you, John. As if that's

9:14

not bad enough, there's something

9:16

called cinnabar,

9:17

which actually sounds quite yummy, doesn't it? Yeah. It's

9:19

kind of like a cinnabar. Like a cinnamon roll, but

9:21

it's not.

9:21

It's a substance that was used to make lipstick

9:24

in the 16th century, which would give your lips a

9:26

little reddish

9:27

tinge, probably because they're just swelling up and

9:29

having a reaction.

9:31

Because the cinnabar is toxic and was essentially

9:34

a mercury sulfide mineral.

9:36

Yum, yum, yum. Put that on your lips. So

9:38

lead and mercury were the two most prevalent

9:41

toxic substances in different cosmetics

9:43

that Elizabeth increasingly caked

9:46

her face and lips with in the 1580s and 1590s. And

9:49

other poisonous substances, such as arsenic,

9:51

were used in early modern... Made

9:54

shit being

9:54

a woman, John. It is. Well, I know... You've got to look pretty,

9:56

but actually... I know, but look, you notice how I gave you the

9:58

stuff about makeup, Angela. Oh, I'm

10:00

in charge of the explainers. All the time, I

10:02

went by the way. Stand back, I'm lighting

10:04

this quad car. Yeah, but in

10:06

the end, actually, she did, she died, I mean, she's probably weakened

10:09

by all this over the decade. In the end, she got

10:11

pneumonia, and she died at Richmond

10:13

Palace at the age of 69, which is actually

10:15

not bad for this particular period we're

10:18

talking about, which is called the Olden

10:20

Days period. Elizabethan.

10:23

Elizabethan, that's good. I've just worked

10:26

it out, John, have you? That's a new phrase you could've

10:28

got. I don't think I want to come up with that. We're going to dub that

10:30

period the Elizabethan Age. So

10:32

her cousin James VI of Scotland becomes James

10:34

I of England. He

10:37

comes down south, he eats a lovely loin

10:39

steak on the way down, he nights it, and it

10:41

becomes Sir Loin Steak. That's true. That

10:43

is true. Is that how Sir Loin comes from? He

10:46

knitted a loin steak on

10:48

that way down. So

10:50

they say, because some people say Henry VIII,

10:52

but it was James I, James VI. Suddenly,

10:54

it's all changed in London, and Angela, all the egg-a-steak

10:57

houses, they open up, serving Sir Loins.

11:00

Scottish people everywhere. That was the biggest change

11:02

that happened, wasn't it? and the steak houses, yeah. Loins

11:04

became Sir Loins. And that's the end of the podcast,

11:06

thank you very much. Although

11:08

James was a Protestant, English

11:11

Catholics, they thought he would be far more sympathetic

11:13

to their plight than Elizabethan

11:14

had been.

11:15

So in the first few months, he did attempt

11:18

to be kind of all things to all men.

11:20

All people. All people, men, people lost

11:22

my notes. He did away with fines for not attending

11:25

Anglican Church, but then found himself under

11:27

pressure from the increasingly Puritan

11:29

Parliament to bring the fines back again. Within

11:32

a couple of years, bitter disillusionment was

11:34

setting in among certain Catholics.

11:36

And they were going, hmm, I don't like this new king,

11:39

and his parliament's even worse. It's not

11:41

as if there's any way of getting rid of

11:43

the whole lot of them in one go. And

11:46

then someone has a thoughtful sip of

11:49

his beer, and he says, unless...

11:54

So the first meeting of the Gunpowder Plot, Conspirators,

11:56

was on the 20th of May 1604 in the... and

12:00

Drake in the Strand. I

12:01

love it. I love when these things start

12:02

in a pub. It's in a pub. You go, we

12:05

should blow up Parliament and the King. Yeah,

12:07

normally you wake up the next morning, you go,

12:09

God, I was talking rubbish last night. Oh,

12:11

God. But the mistake that these people made, these gunpowder

12:14

plotters, was to speak with the plan when they'd sober

12:16

up. Oh, it's

12:16

great. Well, isn't it? Yeah, it's

12:18

like... If I'd start with every drunken

12:20

plan I'd ever made, my fault. Yeah, it's like, I wonder

12:22

if one of them went, God, we had a few last nights, didn't

12:24

we? The other one was going, no, no, no, we're doing it. We're doing

12:26

it. Yeah, yeah. I bought the

12:29

gunpowder. The idea was to tunnel under the House of Lords

12:31

and hide barrels of gunpowder underneath the

12:33

spot where both houses and the new King

12:36

would all be gathered for the state opening of Parliament

12:38

and then blow them all up and

12:41

then have a rebellion and

12:43

stuff and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

12:45

Well,

12:45

I love about this. It's even... I mean, the

12:47

second half of that plan is obviously they've not thought about. No.

12:50

But the first half is just we'll tunnel under the House

12:52

of Lords, as if that's an easy thing to do. Nobody's

12:55

going to know you should dig in a tunnel under the House of Lords. Oh,

12:57

no, that's fine. So however ill thought

12:59

out the second part of the plan where they murder

13:01

the King and all his ministers and the members

13:03

of the Parliament, it came pretty close to succeeding.

13:06

Yeah, yeah. Considering what a madcap idea

13:08

it was, even half as much

13:10

gunpowder as they used would have wiped out the entire

13:13

ruling class of the country in one moment.

13:15

All the noblemen who effectively kept order

13:17

in the Shires, the Privy Council who managed

13:20

the country's finance and foreign policy,

13:22

all the bishops who had been there who ruled over

13:24

the church, even Black Rod would have

13:26

perished, leaving the country without anyone to

13:29

do whatever Black Rod

13:31

does. Right, it depends on which one you're referring to, Angela.

13:33

Black Rod is either the personal attendant

13:35

of the sovereign in the House of Lords or a

13:38

male stripper ground available for parties operating

13:40

on a commissary. John, you did not just murder Black Rod, Joe. I

13:43

mean, there's low hanging fruit, Joe. And

13:45

then there's a Black Rod, Joe. You've

13:47

got to do it, man. You've got to gag, Angela. You'd

13:50

be chucked out of the comedy writer's gang

13:52

if you didn't. If you just let Black

13:54

Rod charge you by. My comedy

13:56

writer's union. You've got to do

13:58

it. So England didn't... possess a standing

14:00

army to step into the power vacuum, and

14:03

anarchy would surely have followed with all

14:05

the innocent, non-conspiratory Catholics the most likely

14:07

target for any backlash.

14:08

Yes, so this is why so many Catholics were terrified

14:11

by the prospect of such an action, because they

14:13

just wanted to live their lives in peace, eat their wafers

14:15

in private. Most Catholics weren't

14:17

looking to join in a religious war against the Protestants,

14:20

but now they're all going to be tainted because

14:23

of this terrible conspiracy.

14:24

Yeah. So the leader of the conspirators

14:26

was not the man we associate with November the 5th,

14:29

but Robert Katesby. And by rights,

14:32

he should be the figure burned on bonfires

14:34

around the land on November the 5th. But Penny

14:36

for the Robert, it just doesn't have the same name to

14:38

it. Penny for the Bob though. Penny for the Bob. Or

14:41

you could, Bob for the Bob would have been better, wouldn't he? Well,

14:43

they should have worked on it for the last couple of years. I

14:45

thought they should have done. You could have, yeah. I'd say Penny

14:47

wasn't very much, if you're honest. The dictionary

14:49

of National Biography says that he

14:52

is said to have exercised a magical influence

14:54

upon all who mixed with him. So

14:56

basically a mad cult leader who persuaded

14:59

people to carry out an insane and barbaric

15:01

plan. He was the Osama bin Laden

15:03

of his day.

15:04

And the writer and historian Lady Antonia

15:06

Fraser called him the Prince of Darkness

15:09

at the center of the gunpowder

15:10

plot. Ah, thank you, Lady Antonia Fraser.

15:13

I mean, my first day at university, her

15:16

daughter was starting on the same day as me. And

15:18

this young girl, I was 18, she sat opposite

15:21

me and said, can you pass the sword? I

15:23

went, yeah, it's a bit like that here, isn't it? The sword,

15:26

the sword. Could you pass the sword? Oh, you're not joking.

15:28

You really talk like that. That's

15:30

how you talk. But

15:32

of

15:32

course, the person we most associate

15:34

with the conspiracy is, of course, Guy

15:37

Fawkes. He was a former soldier who

15:39

gained experience with gunpowder when fighting

15:41

in the Spanish Netherlands. Yeah. Guy

15:43

now needed to go undercover. So after

15:45

much thought, he hit upon an

15:48

imaginative alias, John. Do you know what it was? I

15:50

do know what it was. It's hilarious. John Johnson.

15:53

John Johnson. It sounds like somebody's just asked you on the

15:55

spot. What's your name? Bob, Bob, Bobson.

15:58

John Johnson.

15:59

John Johnson.

16:02

And security at the Palace of Westminster

16:04

must have been slacked.

16:05

I love this

16:08

bit of the story. So the conspirators discovered

16:10

that a coal seller directly

16:12

underneath the House of Lords was available

16:15

for rent. Because of course, why would

16:17

you not just rent out space? Oh, we've got a garage,

16:19

let's just rent it out to whoever wants it. Where

16:22

is it? You know, in the seat of government. And

16:25

they leased it. It was quickly leased by this trustworthy

16:28

looking John Johnson bloke who turned

16:30

up twiddling his massage.

16:31

I'd like

16:33

to rent the coal

16:35

seller. What

16:36

are you going to put in it? A coal? My

16:38

name is John Johnson. John Johnson.

16:41

So it's insane,

16:43

isn't it? Incidentally, they always called it

16:45

a seller, but it was actually on ground level. It

16:48

was a sort of store room. And it was just a huge

16:50

piece of life for the conspirators that this was available,

16:52

as you said, to tunnel under Parliament.

16:55

That would have taken ages. So

16:58

this big empty store room was available to rent. So it

17:00

was their lucky day, apart

17:03

from them getting caught and being hung drawn and

17:05

quartered, obviously. But you have to take

17:07

your positives where you can find them Angela.

17:10

Maybe we should take our first break there and find

17:12

out if they succeed after this.

17:19

Hello,

17:26

and welcome back to We Are

17:28

History, where we are talking about

17:30

the Gunpowder Plot. Remember, remember

17:32

the 5th of November?

17:34

Gunpowder, treason and plot. I

17:36

see no reason why something

17:39

in treason should never be

17:41

forgotten. Ironically, I forgot. But nevermind. We got

17:43

there. So

17:43

Guy Fork, he's

17:48

promptly started filling this seller that

17:50

he's rented

17:50

in the House of Lords because of course,

17:53

started filling it up with barrels

17:55

of gunpowder. Did they not just

17:57

see him wheeling him back? What's in those barrels?

18:00

There's some soaring, soaring

18:02

stuff. 36 barrels of explosives, all

18:04

ready for November the 5th, plus a packet of sparklers,

18:06

mulled wine, some overcooked jacket potatoes. Has

18:08

it all... Has it all... It's got it all

18:10

there, yeah. Where did you go? had

18:13

been early October, but following

18:15

an outbreak of plague in the capital, it was put

18:17

back a month. And it's recently been argued

18:20

that, having now sat around for so long, the

18:22

gunpowder might have decayed and might have failed

18:24

to detonate. No way of knowing this, of course, for certain,

18:26

but the sensation of dramatically

18:28

lighting a fuse and then wondering why nothing is

18:31

happening is still reenacted every bonfire night.

18:33

The delay also, of course, created time for

18:35

more anxious conspirators to start

18:37

having second thoughts. Yeah. You

18:40

know, when it's all happening in a pace, you sort of get swept

18:42

for long. Yeah. You get a pint of think.

18:45

You go, I'm gonna have a good plan on it. Hang on a minute. So

18:47

on 26th of October, Lord

18:50

Monteagle's servant handed

18:52

his master a letter.

18:53

We don't know who Lord Monteagle is. We don't need

18:55

to say Lord Monteagle. Lord, that's all the man, isn't it? It's Lord, yeah.

18:57

And his master

18:59

gave him a letter that had been delivered by a stranger

19:02

in

19:02

the road.

19:03

And it advised him that for his

19:05

preservation, he should avoid his attendance

19:08

at this parliament, which was to receive

19:10

a terrible blow. Little clue

19:12

in there. Yeah, yeah. And then it said

19:14

he should burn this letter, which is never

19:16

a good sign, is it, John? No, you should

19:18

burn this letter after reading. He's never after just getting

19:21

your gas

19:21

bill. You have to burn after reading

19:23

it. Well, that just keeps warm. Yeah, that's true. The

19:27

letter was shown to the king on the 1st of November,

19:29

because, you know, no urgency. Give it a few days.

19:33

And then on the evening of the 4th of November, a

19:35

general search was undertaken at the Palace of

19:37

Westminster above and below. So

19:40

who sent this letter? It's one of the great mysteries

19:42

of history, along with how did

19:45

Liz Truss ever become Prime Minister. Whole

19:47

books have been written on the subject. But

19:49

the thing I would say about this is,

19:51

Angela, I don't care. Who

19:53

was the mystery letter? Am

19:56

I proper? Are you even slightly? You're not even

19:59

slightly.

19:59

Which one, John? Well, there was someone who

20:02

had a sister-in-law or a cousin of me. I can't remember. I

20:04

did read about it. I left that detail out. I'm

20:06

sorry. We

20:07

don't care. So the letter obviously

20:10

prompted a search of the Palace of Westminster. I

20:12

wonder if they thought it was a hoax because

20:14

we used to... Yeah. When I was at

20:16

school,

20:16

like, made today where I grew up is a back

20:18

town. Right.

20:19

And we used to... every now and then, somebody

20:21

would phone our school with an Irish accent.

20:23

Same with mine. And say

20:25

there was a bomb in the school and we'd all go and sit on the field while

20:27

the Piffa dogs came out. We

20:29

had the same mid-70s. We had the same thing. There

20:32

would be someone who hadn't done their homework and didn't want

20:34

to get in trouble in English. Yeah. So

20:37

he'd just ring the school from the school telephone box and say there's

20:39

a bomb in the school. We're all evacuated into the

20:41

playing fields and he's going, yeah, I didn't have

20:43

to give it in. A thousand

20:45

boys! A thousand boys out of the field. We did it like three times

20:48

and everyone knew it was him and no teacher ever found out. I

20:50

mean, he never found out who it was at our school,

20:52

but they did it several

20:53

times. Yeah.

20:54

So the search

20:56

of the Palace of Westminster's happening. Yeah. And

20:59

at midnight on November the 4th, a

21:01

man was discovered besides a surprisingly

21:03

large amount of wood, John. And

21:06

he said his name was, can you guess? Oh,

21:08

it's John Johnson. It was

21:09

John Johnson. And he was standing

21:11

guard over his master's supply

21:14

of winter fuel. I've got questions there, John. Yeah.

21:17

I mean, at night. Do you guard wood at night? Do

21:19

you guard wood at night? And also why is his master's winter

21:21

supply of fuel at the House of

21:23

Law?

21:23

Why is he taking it to work with

21:25

him? He's a man who maybe lives nearby. And

21:28

it's like a big storage company, isn't it? You

21:31

put a load of wood in there and you stand guard in there. I

21:33

was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, of course you

21:34

do. Sorry, my bad. So they pulled away a few

21:37

bushels of these sticks and of course it revealed 36,

21:39

36 huge barrels of gunpowder.

21:41

Oh,

21:46

that. Yeah, well, the shop had run out of fire lighters. Yeah,

21:48

we've got to light this wood. That is my

21:50

master's supply

21:51

of... Yeah, gunpowder. Yeah.

21:54

Winter gunpowder. Yeah. Yeah,

21:56

they searched John Johnson and he

21:58

had fuses in his pocket. I don't know what they

22:00

are. I'll give them things. Oh,

22:03

you've got me, but society is to

22:05

blame. Let's just presume

22:07

that the gunpowder was still good on November the 5th and

22:09

it had blown up. What would have been the damage

22:11

done?

22:12

Well, in 2003, the Institute

22:14

of Physics in London asked scientists

22:17

at the University of Abberist with Centre

22:19

for Explosion Studies. That sounds like

22:21

a dangerous

22:22

place to study, doesn't it? A lot of boys on it. One

22:24

experiment goes a bit wrong there. A lot of dysfunctional boys

22:26

on that course. Yeah,

22:27

yeah, I bet. I see why they have

22:29

it in Abberist with, like right on the couch.

22:31

It's a long way from everyone else.

22:33

They asked them to estimate

22:35

the probable effects of detonating 36

22:38

barrels of gunpowder under the old House

22:40

of Lords. Yeah, obviously a lot of

22:43

guesswork in this. No one knows how tightly the barrels

22:45

were packed with gunpowder, but they reckon

22:47

that the amount of explosives would be about 5,000

22:50

pounds. That's

22:52

in weight. Yeah, weight, yeah. Yeah, that's

22:54

in the weight.

22:54

Yeah. So,

22:56

in terms of the shock and the relative devastation,

22:58

it would have been the 9-11 of

23:12

its

23:20

day.

23:21

Yeah, I suppose it would. Yeah, maybe not quite as many.

23:23

To what? Who knows,

23:24

actually? Yeah, I think

23:27

it's the first major terrorist attack. It's a

23:29

gunpowder plot, I think, is fair to say. They're the original

23:32

terrorists, aren't

23:32

they? Yeah.

23:33

And of course, the most insane and

23:35

sort of ill-thought-out part of their plan

23:37

was that the power vacuum created

23:40

by the atrocity they thought would immediately result

23:42

in a general Catholic uprising across

23:44

the country and that they could put James's

23:47

eight-year-old daughter on

23:50

the throne and then they could rule

23:53

through her as Lord Protectors. Say,

23:55

no, not everyone's as deluded as she is,

23:57

just because you really want that to happen doesn't mean

23:59

that.

23:59

that the Catholics are

24:01

getting up rising, you know half of it. There's a great

24:03

quote from Mark Twain which is, it ain't

24:05

what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's

24:07

what we know for sure that just ain't so. And

24:10

that's exactly where these guys were, there were certain of it. It's

24:12

like when you try and talk to socialist workers about the revolution.

24:14

And so they're like, yeah, and the workers will seize control

24:17

of the work means of production. You're going, which

24:19

workers, guys? The people in the call centres, the traffic

24:21

wardens, the Amazon delivery guy. The ones that read

24:23

the sun and vote Brexit, those ones. Do not

24:25

think they might just go, shit, this looks dangerous up there.

24:27

I think I'll keep the family inside and wait for this all to blow

24:29

over. By the way, I'm not saying

24:31

all worse than class people read

24:33

the sun and vote Brexit. I'm just

24:36

saying a significant amount of them do. And

24:38

they're not joining the workers revolution,

24:39

whether you like it or not. So anyway,

24:42

when the news about the gunpowder being discovered spread

24:44

across London, it was of course a sensation.

24:47

Every Lord, nobleman and bishop

24:49

was in London that night. And

24:51

when they realised that November the 5th was intended to be the

24:53

last morning they would ever see, they shared

24:55

a sense of moral outrage and

24:57

divine deliverance.

24:59

Now, it is, of course, possible

25:01

that the letter to Monteagle was a forgery

25:04

by the security services. Because

25:06

something we don't think about happening before

25:09

the 20th century has really

25:11

inspired seems such a 20th century concept.

25:14

But the theory is that they'd known about the plot for

25:16

some time and were waiting until the last

25:19

moment to expose it, thus creating

25:21

the maximum impact and giving themselves

25:23

the widest reign to act against the conspirators

25:26

and any other Catholic they didn't like the look of. And

25:28

if this was the case, then it was certainly very

25:30

effective.

25:31

Yeah, there are still conspiracy theories

25:33

that the whole thing was cooked up by the Protestant

25:35

establishment, probably with the help of the CIA and

25:37

the Israeli security service. These don't

25:40

really stand the test of looking at any source

25:42

of material that isn't just blokes on the Internet. Yeah,

25:45

I mean, actually, conspiracy theories aren't a modern invention.

25:47

They did circulate pretty soon after the gunpowder

25:49

plot that the whole thing had been

25:51

cooked up. And the perpetrators

25:53

framed by the establishment, by the Earl

25:55

of Shaftesbury to rally support for James

25:57

I's shaky new regime.

25:59

theory about. Well the thing is only foolish

26:02

people believe this Angela. Well I don't know.

26:05

I mean wake up sheeple. That's

26:07

what I'm saying. Wake up sheeple. Conspiracy theories

26:10

are how stupid people make themselves feel clever.

26:12

That's what they say. Guy Fawkes

26:14

was initially brazen in his proud admission of

26:16

his murderous intentions. Though bearing

26:18

in mind what they went on to do to him he might

26:20

have been better off saying he was very very sorry.

26:23

There are famously only two signatures

26:25

by Guy Fawkes. So that meat legible

26:28

before the torture for example and then that

26:31

horrible shaky scrawled after

26:33

the torture for example. So

26:36

through torture they eventually learned the names

26:38

of the other conspirators and they also learned that days

26:40

and days of agonising unendurable agony does nothing

26:42

to improve a man's handwriting.

26:43

Who'd have thought it? But Robert

26:45

Catesby and the other plotters have been in the Midlands

26:48

declaring that the king and his heir were dead and

26:51

they tried to gather support for a Catholic

26:53

uprising and that one

26:55

in the Midlands was very interested. They're like oh

26:58

don't really doubt anything about that. It's funny

26:59

isn't it? You sort of forget

27:01

because even before the internet news would travel

27:03

pretty quickly in our lifetime.

27:05

And you think that of course they're

27:07

just assuming it had all run to plan. Yeah. They've

27:09

made their way to the Midlands and telling everyone

27:11

they're all dead. They're

27:13

all dead yeah. They're all blown up.

27:14

How would they know it happened at that point? Yeah. So

27:16

really when you think about how slow

27:19

information

27:19

was. Yeah absolutely. It's mad in the world we live

27:21

in now to remember that

27:22

isn't it? So their plan

27:24

to kidnap the king's nine-year-old daughter

27:27

who was eight

27:27

a minute ago. I know. She's been a grub so

27:29

far. She's been a grub so far. She's

27:32

been in his podcast for eight years. Different time with

27:34

different men of course. I think she's going to be 32. She

27:38

was either eight or nine wasn't she? She might

27:40

have been eight before the plot and nine after. No

27:42

one ever thought they would. But

27:44

it failed miserably regardless. And eventually

27:47

they made a last stand the remaining

27:49

conspirators

27:49

at Warwick's castle. And

27:52

here they discovered

27:53

that their gunpowder was damp. Brilliant.

27:56

Shook the weed on it. And with

27:58

the genius of Mark's

27:59

stage of the project they hit upon another

28:02

brilliant solution didn't they John? Yeah they were like

28:04

I know we could put all our gunpowder

28:07

by the fire to dry out. Yes

28:10

putting gunpowder really close to the fire that

28:12

seems like a totally flawless plan to

28:14

me. Yeah so tragically appropriate

28:17

that the gunpowder plot literally blew up in their

28:19

faces. One of the conspirators

28:21

was blinded making him useless for the

28:23

final shootout. They're judging

28:25

from their competence up to that point they probably appointed him

28:27

chief lookout. So

28:29

that was the miserable failure of the gunpowder

28:31

plot deluded terrorists driven on by righteous

28:33

certainty who brought great suffering

28:36

to those they purported to represent. Of course

28:38

nothing like that could ever happen today.

28:40

Nothing like that could happen today

28:42

that's the catchphrase of this podcast. You

28:44

get out of mud. You get out

28:46

of mud. So those who were not killed

28:48

at the shootout in Warwickshire were put on trial

28:50

for high treason and mischief. Yeah

28:53

mischief seems a bit petty doesn't it given that

28:56

they tried to murder the entire establishment. You

28:58

stand charged with attempted

29:00

mass murder and being a proper nuisance.

29:02

Dye Fawkes was famously

29:05

hung drawn and quartered and I think people don't

29:07

like to see too much about what that actually means.

29:09

I'm gonna tell you it involves castration

29:12

and disembowelment with the entrails

29:14

being waved in the face of the victim and

29:16

then burned in a furnace. Thankfully

29:19

we don't reenact every November the 5th.

29:21

Yes quite. James I

29:23

no doubt shocked us how close he and

29:25

his family had come to death. Declared

29:27

that the date should be celebrated evermore by

29:30

ye hoodies letting off ye air bombs at two

29:32

in the morning outside ye's John's house.

29:34

Oh grandpa's back. In

29:37

fact actually in Samuel Peep's diaries

29:39

he

29:39

describes the 5th of November and boys throwing

29:42

firecrackers. Yeah what's the thing

29:44

about that? Blandads

29:44

were always moaning about it and

29:47

actually rather brilliantly in 1666 which we know

29:50

what happened

29:50

in 1666. Yeah Great Fire London. Just a couple

29:52

of months after the Great Fire of London

29:54

had destroyed pretty much the entire

29:56

city. Samuel Peep's comments

29:58

in his diary that there There were very few bonfires

30:01

that year in London John. What a shame. Funny that,

30:03

isn't it? Oh really, Samuel, people are not quite

30:05

as thrilled about the whole bonfire thing just after

30:07

the entire city and their houses are burned down.

30:10

What a surprise. I think we should

30:12

take another break there Angela, while

30:14

we bemoan a lack of fire on 1666. Speak

30:17

to you after this.

30:29

So we're back talking about November the 5th

30:32

bonfire night. Having an annual autumn bonfire

30:34

was already a tradition, in fact burning all the leaves

30:36

that had fallen from the trees and marking the change

30:39

of season. So this was sort of hijacked

30:41

as being an act of remembrance for this event.

30:43

It became compulsory for

30:45

service of thanksgiving to be given every year

30:48

on the 5th of November. And a

30:50

great deal was made of God's act of

30:52

deliverance from this heinous act.

30:54

This remained in the Ag of the Prayer book until 1859, Angela. Wow.

30:59

In the aftermath, James I seized

31:01

on this plot to assert his divine right to

31:03

the throne and God's special protection of his

31:05

position. But surprisingly, Angela, there was no encouragement

31:08

of anti-Catholicism and

31:10

there was no state-sponsored attacks

31:13

on Catholics.

31:13

Although some tried to suggest the Spanish

31:16

or the French were behind this plot, there

31:18

was no evidence of this. And James

31:20

tried to play down this suggestion because he's

31:22

currently at peace. And he

31:24

doesn't want to whip any antagonism that might jeopardise

31:27

that state of affairs. But effigies

31:29

of the Pope were burned on November the

31:31

5th and in some parts of the country, mobs

31:34

used the date to attack suspected Catholics.

31:37

Although it wasn't state-sponsored,

31:39

it still wasn't great for the Catholic. No, it

31:42

wasn't, no. There's the same thing that

31:44

happens here in terms of our national

31:46

calendar. And I remember the first

31:48

had been all same state and in the Catholic

31:50

calendar that had been a big festival. And

31:52

now here was a political anniversary rather than a religious

31:54

one. So the fifth was

31:56

encouraged and the first farmed upon.

31:59

wasn't the central

32:01

character in the story of the consp- or

32:03

John Johnson as it prefers to be known, wasn't

32:06

the central character in the story of the conspiracy

32:08

until about 1800. Before

32:11

that they burned effigies of the Pope on November

32:13

the 5th but then as time passed during

32:15

the 17th century and tolerance towards Catholics

32:17

increased, seemed rather poor

32:19

taste to burn the Pope on. Took

32:22

a century or two but you know. So

32:25

instead they burned an effigy of the man who

32:26

tried to destroy Parliament. When I

32:28

stood for Labour and made head back in 2001 the

32:31

locals of Cook and Rise burned an effigy of

32:33

John Prescott so I put them down

32:35

as again. But people have

32:37

always put whoever they wanted on the top of their bonfires.

32:40

Recent ones have included Osama bin Laden, Margaret

32:42

Thatcher and Jerry Halliwell. Seems

32:45

a bit mean. Doesn't have a bit of the top. I don't like

32:47

all her songs but crikey. Yeah

32:49

Westminster School in 1681 the boys burnt

32:52

an effigy of a Presbyterian, Jack

32:54

Presbyterian. That never really caught

32:56

on that one but the very opposite of a Catholic

32:59

villain but still a villain to them so that'll do.

33:01

Yeah

33:01

just burn whoever you don't like in that moment.

33:04

Guy Fawkes as we said seems to have emerged

33:06

as the central villain around the 1790s

33:10

when he was the central character in a play

33:12

at the Royal Haymarket Theatre and

33:14

then several other productions included his name in

33:17

the title and by the 1850s

33:19

there are a series of

33:20

Guy Fawkes pantomimes which

33:22

seem hard to imagine today. What's that boys

33:24

and girls? A bunch of terrorists are going to cook.

33:27

He's behind you who? John Johnson.

33:30

Let's publicly disavow them and burn their tentacles

33:32

before their very eyes boys and girls. And of

33:36

course the date became even more special during

33:38

the glorious revolution. I was doing an

33:40

episode on that. I found that really interesting. When

33:42

the Dutch sort of landed

33:43

in the West Country and the West Country went come in have a scone.

33:46

Yeah let's go. That's when the next King

33:48

James of course was forced

33:52

off

33:54

the throne and November the 5th was the date

33:56

that William of Orange landed in Torbay.

33:59

another Protestant celebration

34:01

and the obliging winds that brought him to

34:03

England were seen as another divine intervention

34:06

like the one that had exposed

34:07

the plot in 1605 or the storms that had wrecked

34:10

the Spanish Armada in 1588. I

34:12

mean it really went to prove that God's

34:15

favorite country was England. I think it's hard to

34:17

overlook the evidence any other way isn't it? If you say so, John,

34:19

yeah. Weirdly November the 5th was

34:21

celebrated in American colonies before

34:23

independence as stories of boys burning

34:26

the Pope in Boston and in

34:28

other towns, New York I think, but

34:30

George Washington forbade his officers and soldiers

34:33

from participating in that ridiculous

34:35

and childish custom of burning an effigy

34:37

of the Pope. Fun fact,

34:40

because of the tradition of making effigies

34:41

of Guy Fawkes out of old clothes,

34:43

in America the word guy

34:46

came to mean any scruffy man which

34:49

eventually just became slang for man. So a

34:51

guy

34:51

is because of Guy Fawkes. Yeah and

34:53

that means women as well, doesn't it? Hey you guys. Hey guys.

34:56

Hey guys. I'm so excited to have you here guys.

34:58

It all comes from the penny for the guy that you were pushing

35:00

around in your pram. Yeah well not me

35:02

personally. I find it. It was

35:04

celebrated until quite recently in parts of the Caribbean

35:07

because lots of loyalists fled the

35:09

American colonies and settled in places

35:12

like you know Barbados. Although

35:14

I don't think people necessarily were aware why they

35:16

had a big bonfire on November the 5th and put an effigy

35:19

of a man on top.

35:20

Of course the authorities became torn

35:23

between having this one sanctioned day

35:25

of celebration of the monarchy being saved and

35:27

the general unreleaved riotous

35:29

nature of the events that evolved on November the

35:32

5th before health

35:34

and safety had gone mad. And of course

35:36

in Lewis, in Sussex in 1785

35:39

the authorities famously tried to intervene.

35:41

A magistrate read the riot

35:43

act but it was knocked to the ground and

35:46

they rioted even more until midnight.

35:48

Have you ever been delayed that? I have. Not done it

35:50

in Brighton. Of course just down the road. And

35:52

I remember the first time I went

35:54

I was a student at Sussex University

35:56

so the campus is in

35:58

Falmer which is just to stop. Oh right.

35:59

It's very near Lewis. Yeah. And

36:02

my first year, everyone was like, you have to go

36:04

to this thing. You have to go. And it

36:06

was carnage. It was absolutely carnage. And

36:08

we got the train. It's one or two stops, I think,

36:10

so it's not many stops. And it was Lewis from

36:12

Falmer. And the train was, every

36:15

student on campus was going to the thing. And there were a few

36:17

beers inside them. And I remember, I was much smaller in those

36:19

days. I was like a little size eight thing. And

36:22

I remember my friends just putting me in the luggage rack.

36:24

Because there was no space on the train. They just popped

36:27

me in the luggage rack.

36:27

Don't leave her behind. Don't forget.

36:29

It's the most

36:30

traumatic thing about it. And then you get there. And it's just,

36:32

yeah, absolutely

36:33

carnage. But also

36:35

the parade is like all these sort of middle

36:37

ages. They look like Klan hoods, don't

36:40

they? Yeah. Oh, it's

36:42

so, what's the word? It's so sort of

36:44

sectarian. Sectarian

36:45

and really sinister.

36:47

Yeah, it

36:47

is sinister. It feels very sinister. It is. But

36:50

it's a series of rights. They're carrying tar barrels. Yeah.

36:53

Well, actually, I was going to talk about that. Because when I was at Exeter

36:55

University, when I was a kid, our big trip on

36:57

the coaches was to Otteridge St. Mary. Ah, yeah, yeah.

37:00

Similar story. I don't know if that's still going on, but this was

37:02

the 80s. And the

37:04

tradition in Otteridge St. Mary is that they have, none

37:07

of the village carry these tar barrels on their back,

37:09

flaming. I was there, saw the tar

37:11

barrel flaming, coming towards us. Everyone

37:13

surged back. A crowd crashed through

37:16

a plate glass window of a shop. And

37:18

people were covering glass and putt and stuff. And

37:20

then someone else goes, ah, Rusty's got it. Give him a rusty's

37:22

got it. No, he's gone that way. And it's like staggering

37:24

this way and left. Because things are really heavy. And flames are pouring out.

37:27

Everyone's hair's getting singed. And

37:29

the tradition is to surge towards the crowd

37:32

with it and scare them. And it's just

37:34

the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in my life. It

37:36

must have been banned by now. But maybe some lesson can

37:39

say. No, it's probably still going on. It

37:41

seems appropriate that the gunpowder plot was celebrated with

37:44

fireworks and all the fire risks that those

37:46

brought with them. It's still the busiest night of the year

37:48

for the fire brigade. Yeah,

37:49

I mean, to begin with, all the fireworks. You think

37:51

about it, all the fireworks are just homemade biometers.

37:54

Great. Again,

37:55

brilliant idea. Perfect. And do you know

37:57

what happened, Angela? Lots of guests. blew

38:00

themselves up or sustained horrible injuries and

38:02

burned their whole house down.

38:04

It wasn't until the Explosives Act

38:07

in 1875, you've had centuries of this, 1875 finally

38:12

regulated the manufacture and sale of fireworks.

38:15

Honestly John, I mean you can't even make

38:17

homemade bombs

38:17

these days. Yes I know.

38:19

And of course more recently the Fireworks Act 2003 limited

38:23

their sale and the power

38:24

of publicly available fireworks even

38:26

further and a good thing too

38:28

says this

38:28

dog owner. Yes they brought in a 120 decibel limit

38:30

but by that point my old dog

38:34

was deaf anyway. Oh that's no good. And

38:37

then in recent decades of course Guy Fawkes

38:39

has become some of a pin-up boy isn't it

38:41

for wannabe resiversives. Those

38:44

masks from V for Vendetta get worn

38:46

on demos and processed by young men

38:48

who'd like to cast themselves as urban terrorists for

38:50

an afternoon. They're all made in sweatshops in Indonesia

38:53

obviously. Yeah. And of course there's that

38:55

right-wing website called Guido Fawkes

38:57

and the old joke that Guy Fawkes

39:00

was the only man to enter parliament with honorable

39:02

intentions. All of which as I find

39:04

a bit glib and stupid if I'm honest. Parliament

39:07

and taboxie? Good thing says John.

39:10

Killing politicians bad thing. Well.

39:14

Call me a centrist dad Angela but I

39:16

don't think it makes you smarter and more clued up than everyone

39:19

else if you believe that Westminster should be blown

39:21

up sky high. Yeah.

39:26

Don't kill politicians. I'm remaining. Don't

39:28

kill politicians. Not sure. I'm

39:34

still thinking about that. When Gordon

39:36

Brown was prime minister he commissioned a book about being

39:38

British and I wrote a whole chapter about the gunpowder

39:41

plot in fact and how I think we should reimagine

39:44

that day as a celebration of our parliamentary system

39:46

and also the last time the government found

39:48

any weapons of mass destruction. I bet the Catholics

39:50

loved you for that. I know. But

39:52

I think it's a shame that we don't really have a proper national

39:55

day in the way the Americans have 4th

39:57

of July. I do

39:59

and I don't. I suppose. I mean

40:01

they let off fireworks to celebrate their independence

40:03

and the birth of their nation and what do we

40:06

have, St George's Day, some bloke

40:08

from the Middle East who wouldn't even be allowed in the country

40:10

today, is supposed to have killed a dragon.

40:12

Did he? Yeah. I mean,

40:15

have you seen any dragons? He was obviously

40:16

very good at it. No, no, maybe that's why we have no

40:18

dragons in England. I mean, the English hate cruelty

40:21

to animals, I don't know why they're celebrating him. And

40:23

I just, I don't know, yeah, the idea of us having

40:25

a national

40:26

day like that would just be co-opted by certain...

40:29

Yeah, flavour of it feels

40:31

like, doesn't it? Yeah, but I just, I suppose what I

40:33

was saying is make it about something positive, say that

40:36

our parliamentary system is something to celebrate and

40:38

just because we let off fireworks

40:40

on that day already, I think it would be a good way

40:42

to reframe it. But it's disappearing, as we said, it's Halloween

40:45

now and we're just having a sort of American

40:47

celebration. So I think it'd be a good

40:49

day to celebrate our

40:52

system of government. Just don't burn anyone on top of the bonfire,

40:54

as that's really not a very nice thing to do. And also

40:56

it's more effective if you burn them

40:57

in the middle. Also, if

40:59

you are having a bonfire, please,

41:02

please, before you set light to it,

41:04

go underneath and check for hedgehogs. Hedgehogs

41:06

go, oh, let's hibernate in large

41:08

piles of leaves and sticks in the autumn,

41:10

they go. But, oh, poor hedgehogs.

41:12

But most of the hedgehogs are delicious, actually.

41:16

So that's the story of the gunpowder

41:19

plot and how it's been remembered or misremembered

41:21

down the centuries. John says make

41:23

it a national holiday. Excuse for another day

41:25

of work, Angela. My

41:27

main source for this podcast was a book by James Sharp.

41:30

Thank you, Mr. Sharp, called

41:32

Remember, Remember the 5th of November.

41:35

And we've got a few Patreon supporters

41:37

we'd like to give a big shout out to. Yes,

41:39

don't forget you can join our Patreon.

41:42

Patreon.com slash we are

41:44

history. I've said that with an upward inflection because I wasn't

41:46

sure, but then I got confidence. It's right. Patreon.com

41:50

slash we are history. And you can get your

41:52

episodes a week early and ad free and

41:55

other bits and bobs and goodies and mugs and

41:57

stuff. So thank you to Fiona Brown.

41:59

Marion, Eva Muller, Olivia

42:02

Foster and Alan Baxter. I

42:05

want to say we couldn't make the podcast without you. Thank you,

42:07

guys. And yeah, click on the link that

42:09

Angela mentioned and we can keep making

42:11

this thing. You learn a thing, Angela?

42:14

Yeah, I've learned a lot, John, actually. Yeah,

42:17

this November the 5th, keep pets indoors.

42:19

Don't throw fireworks. I mean, do you

42:21

remember all the adverts on telly?

42:23

They were terrifying, weren't they? And

42:25

the thing about keeping your fireworks in a biscuit tin.

42:27

And cover the box,

42:28

close the box. I remember

42:29

the last time we had a tin of biscuits.

42:32

Remember,

42:32

you want them now. Family circle. Let's

42:34

get one after this. I really want a biscuit. Have

42:37

a great bonfire night, guys. Have

42:39

a great Halloween, trickle bloody trees.

42:41

Don't go back

42:41

to a lit fireworks. Wear gloves.

42:44

See if they work, those adverts. Trick or treat.

42:46

Thanks a lot, guys. Bye.

42:54

History is written and presented

42:56

by Angela Barnes and John F. With

42:58

audio production by Simon Williams. The

43:01

lead producer is Amory Lott and the group

43:03

editor is Andrew Harrison. With artwork

43:05

by James Parrott. We are history is

43:07

a podmasters production.

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