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[Music]

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[Music]

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welcome

1:00

to the we hack purple podcast where each

1:03

week

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we meet a different person who works in

1:06

the information security industry

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and they let me ask them a thousand

1:10

questions this week we have

1:12

hyanne song of f5 she is the evp

1:17

of security product and uh we're gonna

1:20

tell you what that acronym means

1:22

i assure you it is extremely impressive

1:25

um this week we are sponsored by thread

1:27

fix which is powered by denim group

1:29

and there's so much more i want to tell

1:31

you but first

1:33

i want to introduce you to haiyan let's

1:35

bring her out

1:38

hello hello

1:41

hi thank you so much for being on the

1:43

show

1:44

thank you for having me i've been

1:45

looking forward to this moment for a

1:47

couple months already

1:49

oh i know i schedule so far in advance

1:52

i'm really

1:54

a scheduler your your session is so

1:57

popular i'm just so

1:59

honored to be part of this and looking

2:01

forward to our conversation

2:04

thank you so i was wondering if you

2:07

could

2:07

tell everyone your name your job title

2:10

and then a little bit about yourself

2:13

so my name is hyen song and

2:16

i recently started at f5

2:19

in january as their new executive vice

2:23

president

2:24

responsible for the security business

2:28

we call it the security product group

2:31

and i came here from splunk

2:34

where i used to run their security

2:36

business

2:37

almost had seven years seven great years

2:41

at the previous company um and it's just

2:45

been

2:45

such an amazing space to work in and

2:48

i'm five months in almost and super

2:52

excited

2:52

energized um and there's days very

2:56

exhausted because we're very intense

2:58

uh but working on really interesting

3:00

challenging

3:01

and uh amazing things around the digital

3:06

experience which is all powered by

3:08

applications

3:09

and apis cool

3:12

i was really excited when you said yes

3:14

because you have a very impressive title

3:16

and you do a lot of things so i was like

3:18

yes she said yes

3:21

um could you tell me a bit about your

3:24

job so i'm really glad that because i

3:26

remember when you switched jobs and i

3:28

was like uh oh

3:29

i hope she has enough experience at the

3:30

new job but it's been months now

3:32

so you know what your job is can you

3:34

tell us because honestly i've never met

3:37

an evp before and i don't know it sounds

3:40

pretty

3:41

it sounds kind of amazing thank you

3:44

tanya

3:45

um we're just one of the

3:48

security professionals working in the

3:51

industry just like you

3:52

and many of your audiences here

3:56

we take a different role right try to

3:58

advance the technology advance or

4:00

industry

4:02

my role particularly that i'm super

4:04

excited about as you know f5

4:07

really started in the load balancer and

4:12

helping

4:13

everybody getting the best experience

4:15

with the internet this is

4:17

years ago and over the years they got

4:20

to do more and more help people deliver

4:22

the applications that powers or business

4:25

powers or life

4:27

and in the evolution of application

4:31

delivery

4:32

everybody knows how important security

4:35

is becoming

4:36

and the fact that you're on this podcast

4:37

i'm sure that's probably either part of

4:40

your job or

4:41

something that you're aspired to do and

4:43

you want to get into the industry

4:46

so securing applications and nowadays

4:49

securing the apis becoming even more

4:51

important so my job it's really about

4:55

building the security product

4:58

and the offerings and the services to

5:01

help

5:02

our customers who are getting into this

5:05

new digital economy that everybody

5:07

really sort of got to experience and

5:10

enjoy in the last year and a half i

5:11

would say

5:13

how to secure them and try to make sure

5:16

we deliver the right

5:18

user experiences safely

5:21

oh that's so good you should write my

5:24

resume because it would be way better if

5:26

i had the way that you explained that so

5:28

good

5:30

do you um i also love the way you said

5:33

how everyone has had

5:34

the chance to enjoy the digital

5:36

experience over the past year and a half

5:38

i'm like oh you're so

5:39

good

5:43

okay so your job because you're

5:46

you're an executive vice president so

5:48

that so a lot of times when we talk to

5:50

people on this podcast

5:52

they have more kind of boots on the

5:54

ground types of jobs

5:55

but a lot of us aspire one day to have a

5:58

job like yours

6:00

what is it like like a day in the life

6:02

of your job

6:03

is it a lot of meetings do you have to

6:05

write papers do you have to brief a lot

6:08

of people do you have to do

6:09

presentations because some people are

6:10

really afraid of doing presentations

6:13

well you just listed all of them all of

6:16

the things that

6:17

may not be like doing them all in one

6:19

day but most cases it's actually doing

6:21

all of those one day

6:24

for example we're in the middle of doing

6:26

or

6:27

you know financial planning for the next

6:29

year and

6:30

as part of that um you know you really

6:33

spend time with

6:34

your product leaders engineering leaders

6:36

and sales leaders to say hey what does

6:38

next year look like

6:39

and you know do we have the crystal ball

6:42

try to say

6:43

well this is where the business is going

6:44

to come from and things so that's

6:46

extremely

6:48

uh important to get that done for the

6:50

company

6:52

and and we actually don't have the

6:54

crystal ball so you have to really bring

6:56

a lot of information and triangulating

6:58

them and make some judgment calls

7:00

so that's one of the the jobs we do

7:02

right and

7:03

um everybody uh learned that gosh you

7:06

know in order to really plan sometimes

7:08

you got to

7:09

uh i think amazon is the one who made

7:12

this super famous like

7:14

how do you work from backwards what is

7:16

that you want to deliver to your

7:18

customer what is the end goal

7:20

and then work backwards and try to make

7:22

your plans

7:23

and so i think that's the other part

7:24

that we do right as part of a leadership

7:27

team and let's try to like get together

7:29

and define what the future may hold for

7:31

us

7:32

and i just did a team of site uh this

7:34

week where we

7:36

allowed ourselves to dream a little

7:38

right two years down the road what do

7:39

you think we're gonna be like

7:41

and in order for us to get there what is

7:43

that we need to do

7:44

in order to deliver that so those are

7:47

part of the most i would say

7:50

rewarding satisfying exciting part of

7:53

the job

7:54

and there's other things you have to

7:56

chase down something you got to chase

7:58

down where is this peel in order for me

8:00

to go and get this done

8:02

that may not be the most rewarding but

8:04

very important

8:05

and and i think there's the other piece

8:07

that i do enjoy spend time on is to

8:10

really in

8:12

the old days having one-on-ones in

8:14

person

8:15

having a lunch to connect with people

8:18

nowadays mostly you know over zoom and

8:21

have a conversation

8:22

but just connect with people and

8:25

understanding

8:26

what's top of mind for them what is

8:28

blocking their progress what can you do

8:30

to help

8:31

and their days i get to do a mentoring

8:33

session with

8:35

some folks who are just aspiring to be a

8:38

new

8:38

you know architect a leader those are

8:41

really just rewarding

8:43

in so many ways and i always want to

8:45

make sure i find time to do that

8:46

it doesn't matter how crazy my schedule

8:48

is

8:51

oh my gosh honestly so obviously you

8:53

can't tell us

8:54

but it would be so amazing to be a fly

8:56

on the wall during that

8:58

off-site to hear all the ideas and like

9:01

to

9:02

and just like to watch a whole bunch of

9:03

people with a lot of

9:05

experience who are really smart come

9:07

together and then make

9:08

a multi-year plan like

9:13

sometimes i get a little excited on the

9:14

show i'm sorry

9:16

no that's a just an amazing process and

9:19

experience and

9:20

and i think you know in many ways

9:24

it's all because the

9:27

players the contributors and it's not

9:30

because

9:31

one person has crystal ball in the

9:32

future it's a team effort

9:34

that helps define and shape the future

9:37

of a business

9:39

oh that's so cool so

9:42

what types of personality traits or

9:44

maybe aptitudes

9:46

would someone need to be really good at

9:49

a job like yours i mean i feel like i

9:52

can already guess that you have to have

9:53

a really good work ethic

9:55

but but other than that like what types

9:58

of things could make someone good at

10:00

this

10:02

um i remember seeing the question coming

10:05

in

10:05

i was giving some thoughts i was like

10:07

well

10:08

actually i always have to believe it's

10:11

the team that you put together

10:14

because each everyone would bring a

10:16

different talent right

10:18

into the work and nobody is perfect i

10:21

know i'm not

10:22

and so but to really have this

10:25

the right leadership and do make the

10:27

right decisions

10:29

uh you need a team that you know who are

10:31

super duper experts in certain area

10:34

and who are willing to work together as

10:37

a team and augment

10:38

each other and debate things so we get

10:42

all the right perspectives

10:43

so i guess if those are important things

10:46

to do

10:47

is to build a team that the the

10:49

qualities of the leader needs to be

10:52

really value value you know the people

10:55

around you

10:56

and value the value of teams

10:59

and have the ability to bring people

11:02

together i think that'll be one thing

11:04

and uh willingness to be open-minded

11:07

because you don't know everything and

11:10

hopefully a good communicator because

11:12

you got to go communicate to your team

11:15

communicate your customers

11:16

communicate to your bosses and board

11:19

because you know we're in a position

11:21

in a role that we need to be really

11:24

sharing what's important and influencing

11:27

and get buy-ins from all the different

11:29

stakeholders

11:31

oh that's so cool you probably have

11:34

really good persuasion skills

11:37

like you're probably i try

11:40

i try

11:43

tanya you've been so modest i've seen

11:45

you presenting i've seen you coming

11:47

making a pitch

11:48

and your persuading skills it's just

11:52

built in so

11:53

uh you're just being too modest here

11:58

so if you're gonna set direction for a

12:00

company and figure out all the steps

12:03

basically that you need to actually

12:04

achieve those goals

12:06

i feel like you probably need

12:10

technical skills or have previous

12:13

technical experience

12:14

in because like if you i don't know you

12:17

tell me

12:18

do you do you need to have technical

12:20

skills to get where you are today

12:23

i think my journey certainly benefited

12:26

from my technical backgrounds

12:29

and i started as an engineer as a

12:31

researcher

12:32

and my first job was at a company called

12:35

informix

12:36

and building a trusted relational

12:39

database

12:42

so you know if you ask me do you need to

12:45

start that way

12:46

in order to get to the role and do the

12:50

job

12:51

i would say no you don't have to there's

12:53

many ways many paths

12:55

to have a successful career but

12:59

whichever direction or starting point

13:02

you have

13:03

i think it's super important you

13:05

understand the space

13:07

you be a student of life you learn learn

13:10

what

13:11

matters to your customer learn what's

13:13

important

13:14

uh you know what's the challenge what is

13:16

the the most difficult thing to solve

13:19

and immerse yourself uh you do need to

13:22

be

13:23

knowledgeable you do need to be uh

13:26

credible

13:26

right and you you all know in the

13:28

security and

13:30

industry there's something called the

13:31

street cred and you can have many ways

13:33

to get that

13:34

and it's important to have that

13:37

so that would be my advice is you don't

13:41

have to be

13:42

a double e or computer science major to

13:44

get into the space

13:46

but you do need that sort of drive

13:49

to learn and to be knowledgeable to be

13:52

as deep as you could get

13:54

to to to to build that street cred

13:57

oh that's that's such a good way of

13:59

putting it too because

14:02

if you're going to argue or i mean i

14:05

guess try to persuade or

14:06

or whatever like make a goal it's like

14:08

these are the reasons why i'm choosing

14:10

these goals like see this space over

14:12

here

14:13

right you know these needs aren't being

14:14

met by a huge part of our industry

14:16

and like we could help solve this

14:18

problem and the problem does exist

14:20

right that's a good way of putting it

14:23

yeah okay so i have more questions as

14:26

you probably guessed

14:27

so um for everyone in the chat

14:31

if you want to ask hyanna question you

14:33

can you can also click the thumbs up

14:35

button if you want

14:36

i always press the button anyway

14:42

so so do you think that there's training

14:45

that someone could take

14:46

to try to one day get to where you are

14:50

i find that there's all sorts of

14:51

training all over but

14:53

actually what to do so that you can

14:55

reach that end goal in your career

14:57

do you have any ideas on that um that's

15:00

a great question

15:01

like you know in my whole career when i

15:03

res

15:04

sort of uh do the retrospection right

15:07

what sort of are the pivotal points and

15:10

what are the things that helped me

15:12

i do feel like i take every opportunity

15:15

even starting at informix i remember

15:18

there was classes that teach you about

15:20

negotiation i got negotiating to yes

15:23

i still remember that and there's like

15:26

classes to teach you

15:27

the right pronunciation you know i came

15:30

out of i grew up in china sometimes i

15:32

i pronounce things little differently um

15:35

so i think it's more the attitude of

15:39

doesn't matter how great you are there's

15:40

always opportunities to learn

15:42

and if you're afford an opportunity go

15:44

learn that

15:45

in terms of to get to where i am um

15:49

you know to have an opportunity to lead

15:50

a business lead a team

15:53

i would say besides the

15:56

technical sort of knowledge product

15:59

knowledge

16:00

and the business understanding of you

16:02

know the industry you're in

16:05

having the right leadership and

16:07

management training

16:08

it's important and because those

16:10

training help you to become a better

16:12

leader

16:13

a better manager and you know

16:17

i recently just had my team go through

16:21

uh training around you know how to be

16:24

a leader that's a multiplier versus a

16:27

diminisher

16:28

and i you know there's the one thing

16:32

that people

16:33

say well i may have learned all the

16:35

skills but sometimes i

16:36

regress so it's always good to refresh

16:39

you know yourself um what are the things

16:42

that important to be a leader

16:44

at the end of the day the leader's job

16:46

is to bring a team along

16:48

is to create a lot of geniuses

16:51

not just being the genius right so so i

16:54

think

16:55

i'm always a big fan of learning my

16:57

whole motto in life is you know be a

16:59

student of life

17:01

but to become an executive become a

17:04

leader

17:05

i i think be mindful of getting yourself

17:08

immersed in those learnings are equally

17:11

important than knowing your industry and

17:13

knowing your

17:14

technical skills this is

17:18

this is so wise so years and years ago

17:21

when i first officially became a manager

17:23

so i would say

17:25

like 12 years ago was the first time i

17:26

officially held a management role

17:29

and they had this deal in the government

17:32

where i was working that you had to go

17:34

and take a whole bunch of courses and

17:35

you add a year and a half to complete

17:37

them and i was like

17:38

yes i'm gonna learn stuff this is

17:40

awesome and my manager who had brought

17:42

me in

17:43

who was awful she was absolutely awful

17:46

um

17:47

yeah so she'd interviewed me for one job

17:49

and i quit my job and i came and then

17:51

she gave me a completely different job

17:53

and i was really upset and she's like

17:54

well you're awesome at it

17:56

and the guy who was doing it before

17:58

sucked so and the team loves you so i

18:00

don't care you're doing it

18:02

um and so i was yeah i was supposed to

18:04

do net and then they had me doing

18:06

sap whatever but the point is she said

18:09

oh i'm not taking this training it's

18:11

such crap i already know how to be a

18:13

manager i'm awesome

18:15

and i was like and she asked me if i

18:18

would sign her name

18:19

to the attendant sheets and i said i'm

18:21

not very comfortable committing fraud

18:23

for you brenda

18:25

and she was like europe and then used

18:27

the b word and i was like awesome

18:29

see after the training and then when i

18:31

quit she said

18:32

well you're the best person that's ever

18:34

did this job so guess what i'm gonna

18:36

give you a bad reference so you can't

18:37

leave

18:38

and i was like yeah but i'm so awesome

18:41

it doesn't matter

18:42

and now i have all this extra experience

18:44

on my resume

18:45

and also anyone that calls you and then

18:48

you say

18:49

all of this awful stuff and then they

18:51

call all my other references

18:53

they're gonna know what's up because you

18:55

don't want to lose me and so

18:57

i ended up not even needing a reference

18:59

and i had three drop

19:01

job offers within a week because at a

19:04

zillion years programming experience and

19:06

i was like you'll want me to come

19:07

program for you and they're like yeah

19:08

okay

19:09

um but anyway it's so interesting

19:13

because she was awful and had been in

19:15

the same like level for a really long

19:17

time and was like i don't need to learn

19:19

anything i already know that crap

19:21

and i'd come back from every single

19:22

course and tell her like oh i learned

19:24

about different communication styles and

19:26

she's like

19:27

your softness is anyway she felt that my

19:30

softness was a problem

19:31

and that i should be more hard but now

19:34

you

19:35

who are way way more successful than

19:37

that person

19:38

are telling me you always want to learn

19:41

you always want to improve

19:42

and how i love how you said you want to

19:44

brush up on things

19:46

to make sure that you never it's so

19:48

awesome what was that course that you

19:49

said that they took

19:50

it was how to be um a leader that

19:53

multiplies could you explain

19:54

what the violina modifies and so there

19:57

was uh

19:58

i this actually was introduced to me

20:00

when i was at splunk

20:02

uh there's a book called the multiplier

20:04

and

20:05

was written by this amazing lady

20:10

liz wiseman when i took

20:13

that course i was like wow this is

20:16

so good and it teaches me to be a better

20:20

leader

20:20

and honestly taught me to be a better

20:23

parent

20:24

um so so when i came over to f5

20:28

you know i got a new team and we just

20:31

had a completed acquisition like three

20:34

months ago

20:34

so i got an opportunity to lead this

20:37

this team

20:38

and so i said you know what would be

20:40

more important than

20:42

bring my team together and have the same

20:46

language of leadership language and

20:49

and have the same way of working um

20:53

so i said let's introduce this let's

20:55

let's bring everybody together

20:57

and let's use this to give all of us a

21:00

refresher

21:01

on what that is and so i'm a big fan of

21:04

that

21:05

and especially the whole value there

21:08

they said you know you can be one genius

21:10

yourself

21:11

or if you're a multiplier you're going

21:13

to create an army of geniuses that's

21:16

just

21:17

you know my my

21:20

um the most rewarding experience as a

21:24

manager and leader is to be able to do

21:26

that

21:27

yes when you when you mentor someone and

21:31

train them and then you see them blossom

21:34

yeah and especially like i know as a

21:36

manager like i want to keep the good

21:38

ones

21:39

but when i see them go off and like

21:41

they've outgrown me

21:42

do you know what i mean i'm just like

21:45

yes

21:46

i am 100 with you on that and

21:49

oh by the way i was gonna say you made

21:52

such a great decision to leave

21:56

that job because right you know

22:00

the most important thing is to work for

22:03

someone that you

22:04

really believe in and and you share the

22:07

values

22:08

and stand up you know for for what you

22:11

basically say hey i don't believe in

22:13

those values i

22:14

gonna go and do something that that's

22:17

more aligned

22:18

so yeah yeah the next thing

22:21

i i'd already worked with him before and

22:24

he

22:26

brought me so he had been promoted and

22:28

so he brought me over with a promotion

22:30

and then i worked for him for

22:32

i actually worked for him until i

22:33

switched into security

22:35

yeah for like years and years like

22:38

almost four years

22:39

um but yes your boss makes your whole

22:41

day for better or worse yes

22:43

yes very chew okay i have a ton more

22:47

questions but very briefly first

22:49

i am going to thank our sponsor i want

22:51

to thank threadfix

22:53

because they make the most stupendous

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vulnerability management

22:57

this side of the galaxy um

23:01

i told them i wanted to say something

23:02

fun and i have to say every time

23:04

it's fun and also they're wonderful

23:08

um i actually was in this private chat

23:10

recently

23:11

and someone was asking about them and

23:13

before i could say something everyone's

23:15

like everyone that works at denim

23:17

group's awesome they're the nicest

23:18

people on the planet and i was like oh

23:20

that's what i was gonna say

23:23

um yeah it's nice to have um it's nice

23:26

to have sponsors but let's get back to

23:28

the topic that we're supposed to be on

23:30

which is how our audience can become

23:33

evps one day so

23:37

so you have a lot of work experience

23:38

this is not your first job or your

23:40

second job

23:41

it's definitely at least your third job

23:43

so

23:45

what types of job experience do you

23:47

think that someone should try to get if

23:49

one day they hope their career

23:51

could go like yours

23:52

[Music]

23:54

you know i my first job at informix i

23:57

was there for almost 10 years

23:59

i just remember this great

24:03

colleague who basically said hyen you've

24:05

been a rising star here

24:07

i'm going to give you some advice do you

24:10

want a career in the valley

24:12

of course he said if you do

24:16

you need to get a diverse sort of

24:19

experience

24:20

uh you cannot be uh just successful in

24:23

one place

24:24

even though any formats are done through

24:26

four jobs right

24:27

um so i got a taste of

24:30

trying different things and doing

24:32

different jobs just builds that

24:34

perspective and help you continue to

24:36

grow because

24:37

i always say why people hire leaders

24:41

and and and the vps or evps

24:45

it's not because you come in with

24:48

many years of experience it's actually

24:50

it's because

24:51

because of the years of experience and

24:54

the perspective bringing

24:55

you can help to make the right decisions

24:57

right on where we should be

24:59

investing what we should be doing how

25:01

should we position

25:03

what are the opportunities that that's

25:05

that's lying ahead of us

25:07

so the important thing in those role is

25:10

making those

25:11

strategic decisions for the company and

25:14

building a team behind you know like

25:17

those decisions and to make it happen

25:19

right

25:19

so it's the vision is the execution so

25:22

if you think along those lines

25:25

is you got to you know i'm a big fan of

25:29

you got to be grounded

25:30

you know there's there's no sort of uh

25:32

you know floating

25:34

if you're floating then you're not

25:35

necessarily grounded

25:37

and to to know the ground truth so i'm a

25:40

big believer in that uh

25:42

so coming from the ranks as i think is a

25:44

great opportunity

25:45

and uh take on you know something that

25:48

that you're not familiar with

25:50

so you can understand a totally

25:51

different perspective i went from

25:54

informix to a company who does

25:56

application service providers

25:58

type of services and i went from a

26:01

system software to

26:02

a totally service provider and that

26:05

changed i was like oh i did not realize

26:08

that

26:08

you you install something you deploy

26:10

something in two minutes your pager

26:12

starts

26:12

versus a software company six months

26:14

later okay there's a bug on the release

26:17

you put out right six months ago right

26:19

that's before that's before all the ci

26:21

cd and the new way of doing things

26:23

um that whole point is you got to go and

26:27

get those perspectives and so when you

26:29

make decisions

26:31

you actually know there's more

26:33

perspectives than what you know

26:35

and and you you seek out people and

26:38

you develop that in intuition

26:41

so recommendation is try something new

26:45

if somebody offer your management and

26:47

leadership role take that

26:49

and i always say what's the worst case

26:51

gonna happen the worst case

26:53

you didn't like to be a manager but

26:55

guess what after you do that

26:57

you become a much better employee even

26:59

though you go back to be

27:01

an individual contributor so i always

27:03

recommend

27:04

people to take those opportunities and

27:06

if you're a manager you you're giving

27:08

expanded relation you know like

27:10

responsibly

27:12

keep pushing yourself and you always

27:14

have the choice to do something

27:15

different

27:16

and smaller going back right so um

27:19

there's literally no downside

27:22

i have gone back from management down to

27:24

individual contributor around

27:26

four times in my career so yeah

27:30

yeah it being yeah anyway whenever i do

27:33

technical work i don't know how to

27:35

explain it but

27:36

i really love my job and i have less

27:38

stress yeah

27:39

but then someone's like do you want to

27:41

be the boss and lead things and i'm like

27:43

yes i do

27:44

and then after a year or two i'm like no

27:47

i don't

27:50

okay okay more more questions actually

27:54

um you know how a lot of people oh hi

27:57

unicorn from connecticut

27:59

hi kellen hi everyone in the chat people

28:02

were saying hi so i thought i would say

28:03

hello

28:06

so you were talking about how people

28:08

should try a bunch of different things

28:10

i've heard a lot of people talk about

28:12

diversity in tech

28:14

so tech um especially uh in

28:17

silicon valley which is where i believe

28:20

you're located

28:21

like is a lot of is like a big sea of

28:23

white dudes

28:25

right and so do you believe so like i'm

28:28

really biased

28:29

everyone who watches the show knows my

28:30

bias like i believe that

28:32

diversifying all the different types of

28:34

people that we have in tech is important

28:37

for a lot of reasons but do you believe

28:39

that

28:40

that would help kind of like the

28:42

leadership of a company if they have

28:44

more different perspectives

28:47

absolutely i i think um silicon valley

28:50

is interesting

28:52

it's actually um in most of the places i

28:55

worked

28:56

in is fairly diverse um

28:59

but you know in certain segments is

29:01

probably what you're describing

29:03

i was lucky enough in most of the the

29:06

companies i end up

29:07

being part of we have more diversity

29:10

than

29:10

probably the typical company here and

29:14

f5 is one of the most diverse um

29:17

executive leadership team i've ever been

29:20

um so i

29:21

you know check it out and if you have

29:24

time

29:25

uh that's one of the really rewarding

29:27

experiences

29:28

even though i've been here for just um

29:31

five

29:31

five short months um but i do believe in

29:36

diversity i believe in so much that uh

29:39

when i was when i was at splunk i

29:41

remember i was describing to people

29:44

my team and you know what background

29:47

they had

29:48

you know public sector and private

29:50

sector

29:51

and where they came came from

29:54

you know canada and and then you know

29:56

like all the different countries

29:58

they were saying oh you know just like

30:01

your team

30:02

looks like a united nations um

30:05

and that was really one of the things

30:08

um i would say well we were able to

30:11

build a very strong business over there

30:13

and i

30:14

sort of attribute a lot of that to that

30:17

team and to the diversity of the team

30:20

to how we learn from each other help

30:22

complete each other

30:23

and so not only i believe in it i feel

30:26

like i have

30:27

a proof point for it oh that's awesome

30:30

oh i love it okay it is now time for the

30:34

super difficult cheese question

30:36

because i know people in the chat will

30:38

not allow me to not ask the cheese

30:40

question

30:41

so if you have listened to this podcast

30:43

before

30:44

the reason why this question was called

30:47

so the question is does your job pay

30:49

well in your opinion

30:50

but i was explaining when i first said

30:53

it

30:53

you know i'm not asking how much money

30:56

you make because that would be weird

30:58

but does it pay well and so when i was a

31:00

software developer

31:02

and i finally was working like full time

31:05

as a dev

31:06

i remember going to the grocery store

31:08

and i was looking at two different types

31:10

of cheese

31:11

and i thought you know oh this one looks

31:14

pretty good but also this one sounds

31:15

pretty tasty i really really like cheese

31:18

and um and then i realized i make so

31:21

much money now as a dab because i'm a

31:23

full-time

31:24

dev now like i can buy both

31:27

and it was like this moment where i'm

31:29

like i've made it

31:30

i know that that might sound like not a

31:32

lot to you but for me it was like this

31:34

huge moment of like i'm not

31:35

poor i'm not poor i can go to the

31:38

grocery store and not have to count

31:40

every single penny i'm like oh my gosh

31:41

this is so amazing for me

31:43

it felt so good and um and i and i grew

31:46

up quite poor and i was just like i've

31:48

made it

31:49

it was this magical moment and so now

31:51

it's called the cheese question

31:53

and so i suspect the answer is yes

31:56

but does being an evp of product

31:59

security

32:00

does that pay well as a job for how how

32:03

hard you work and how much experience

32:04

you've

32:05

had to put in to get to where you are

32:07

today is this good

32:09

it's very good and anything

32:13

it's it's um you know like i think

32:16

that's

32:17

part of the value system that we all

32:20

have

32:21

and this job it's definitely not a nine

32:23

to five and

32:24

and and uh you know i i believe in the

32:27

the whole us system

32:29

you know on compensation and the risk

32:32

and reward

32:33

and and how hard you work what's

32:36

responsibility you have

32:38

and and the pay you know should be

32:40

somehow is a function of all of those

32:43

uh so i would say you know yes

32:47

um and um i think definitely

32:50

you know i can get both cheese yes

32:55

you know what like on the show we've

32:57

been asking that question

32:59

and some people are like yeah so i'm a

33:01

vegan now

33:02

if that's the question because like

33:06

especially when i started the podcast

33:10

so in august it makes one year but i was

33:12

a startup founder and it was like

33:14

oh yeah there's not a lot of cheese in

33:16

my house right now but now

33:18

a year and oh how long has we have we've

33:20

been doing this now like a year and

33:22

three months i'm able to buy lots of

33:25

cheese again

33:26

life is good i love that question that's

33:30

such a great one

33:31

too i'm sure each of us would have or

33:34

like you know i can buy my two cheese

33:36

kind of

33:37

moments right throughout our career and

33:40

i so you know i came to this country

33:43

and the first job i had was doing um

33:46

filing like you know the invoices in the

33:49

student

33:50

sort of office of of a university is

33:53

like five dollars

33:55

an hour and now i think about i was like

34:00

wow okay you know we were able to do

34:03

that at the time and then

34:05

happiness is not a function of how much

34:07

money you make

34:09

that i can certainly attest to

34:13

oh that's awesome okay so more questions

34:17

that the people listening to this

34:18

podcast may want to know about

34:21

are there many opportunities for those

34:24

in your type of job or field

34:29

i think you know like in cyber security

34:32

for sure

34:33

right uh you know this tanya more than i

34:35

do because

34:36

there's so many people coming to you and

34:38

and getting training

34:40

and doing all the things um so

34:44

for sure um and in and

34:47

but as you sort of grow in your career

34:50

and and climbing the

34:51

the ladder um i would say in cyber

34:55

security

34:56

there's still a lot of opportunities to

34:58

be in those leadership roles

35:00

uh but sometimes it does get harder to

35:03

find that perfect role because

35:05

it's the space it's the opportunity

35:08

it's the people you get to work with and

35:11

it's the vcs behind the company or

35:14

you know uh there's a lot of

35:16

opportunities but sometimes

35:17

finding that one that's the the perfect

35:20

fit or very good fit

35:22

it's not like you know you can just pick

35:25

right there's it takes a lot of effort

35:27

and

35:27

and there's some luck that's associated

35:29

to it

35:30

uh but you know i what i've learned is

35:33

in this role you do get a lot of calls

35:36

and there's definitely a lot of

35:38

opportunities um

35:41

and so if you're like interested aspire

35:44

to

35:45

to do this and you shouldn't be like wow

35:48

you know would i have job security i

35:49

think you will have plenty of

35:51

opportunities

35:54

oh that's awesome would you say that um

35:58

networking is something that you would

36:01

want to do if you're trying to look for

36:02

like your perfect spot

36:05

i think networking and to be connected

36:07

with people

36:08

was was just people in the industry

36:12

whether it's you know job searching or

36:14

not is a good thing to do because

36:17

nobody has all the information and even

36:20

just to help with your job

36:22

networking it's a good thing to do and

36:25

and if you're

36:26

looking for opportunities it's even more

36:28

important

36:30

okay awesome

36:33

okay so now i have a two-parter question

36:36

so it's sort of a really easy question

36:38

but sort of a really hard question

36:40

so what do you like the best and what do

36:43

you like

36:44

the least about your job and

36:47

you probably shouldn't say it's this

36:49

person but other than that

36:51

you're like this guy he's the first i'm

36:54

just kidding

36:56

would you like the best and what do you

36:57

like the least

37:01

i think like you know i'm here for five

37:03

months

37:05

um maybe when i sort of

37:08

look back at the five months what is the

37:10

thing i'm super proud of

37:12

uh is how quickly uh

37:16

we were able to get the team together

37:19

and and building that rapport and

37:23

to have a team that supports each other

37:25

and

37:26

and willing to go to bed for each other

37:29

because this person is off and i'm gonna

37:31

try to fill in

37:32

and and this thing is happening and you

37:34

know we're gonna go i i

37:36

think that's always you know it all

37:38

comes down to

37:39

the people and the relationships that

37:41

that i loved

37:43

uh that's the best part right and you

37:45

know all the way from

37:46

my colleagues my my teammates at the elt

37:50

member and to our ceo i think that's

37:54

that's really sort of that culture

37:57

um it's it's just amazing um

38:01

and that's the best part and the least

38:04

part um gosh

38:08

i i think it's been so

38:11

intense and sometimes

38:15

i was like i need a little more time to

38:18

step back

38:19

and think and and and i

38:22

i think hopefully you know as the new

38:25

team all settle in the business sort of

38:28

gets gets sort of chartered

38:31

out the map and and we will be able to

38:34

spend a little more time

38:35

sort of strategizing thinking and

38:39

and and reflecting um that's probably

38:43

the one that i'm hoping that i'll get

38:44

more time to do

38:46

i feel like there must be a huge

38:49

learning curve when you come in at

38:51

such an incredibly senior position and

38:53

then

38:54

also setting strategy so you have to

38:56

learn as much as you possibly can

38:58

and then apply it yeah that must be a

39:00

lot

39:01

yeah on top of that um luckily

39:05

um or you know however you want to

39:07

describe it

39:08

on my third day we announced an

39:11

acquisition

39:12

of a new company called volterra and

39:15

and that's part of the security product

39:18

group

39:18

so you can imagine the rest of uh

39:22

what happened uh so but it's it's really

39:25

you know speaking of learning um that's

39:28

part of the learning i was like we're

39:30

really sort of building out a new

39:33

platform

39:33

uh to we call it edge 2.0

39:37

is how do we take all the applications

39:40

and the current cloud and really take

39:43

that

39:43

all the way to the edge because i think

39:45

that's how the future gonna

39:47

uh really hold for application delivery

39:50

and security it's not happening

39:52

just in the cloud or in a data center is

39:55

gonna

39:55

be totally happening all over the place

39:58

we need to be where

39:59

the the user is um so i

40:02

have the volterra business and

40:06

and that's gonna be part of our security

40:09

offering and also going to be really the

40:11

the platform that will build more and

40:13

more

40:14

sas services on for the company super

40:17

exciting but a lot of work

40:19

and i also manage the shape business

40:22

which is

40:23

totally amazing um how you know

40:26

you're probably familiar with that you

40:28

know like they are the ones who

40:31

literally created the concept of

40:33

credential

40:34

you know stuffing as like a threat and

40:38

uh we were really they are protecting

40:42

most of the the the largest banks and

40:45

institutions and and

40:47

and just having that mission

40:51

on your team and then and seeing all the

40:54

geniuses behind that technology

40:56

it's just amazing i'm actually

40:59

reading my audiobook right now so i'm

41:02

doing the readings for it like literally

41:04

all day i did it and i covered

41:06

credential stuffing today

41:07

perfect oh my gosh that's so awesome

41:10

that's so amazing too

41:12

like to create a defense against such

41:15

i remember when i first heard about it i

41:17

was like that's so weird but that's such

41:19

genius

41:20

and oh that's so so crappy so that's so

41:23

amazing like

41:24

to have made a tool to protect people

41:26

against this and in the book of course

41:27

i'm recommending that people

41:29

not get any specific vendors tool yeah

41:32

that they

41:33

but that oh it's a very important thing

41:36

to uh to be uh watching out for and

41:39

defending against because it at the end

41:42

of the day

41:43

it's your customers data that's at risk

41:46

so yeah exactly and if your customers

41:50

have a bad experience on your platform

41:52

even if it's because they've been doing

41:54

password reuse which they theoretically

41:56

should not do

41:57

but like they're regular consumers they

41:59

shouldn't have to memorize a bunch of

42:00

security things we should absolutely

42:02

yeah yeah i'm with you okay so tanya off

42:06

topic with the credentials stefan sorry

42:11

okay okay so let's say someone's

42:13

watching this high-end

42:14

and they are thinking okay so that

42:16

sounds amazing

42:17

and one day i want to try to get to

42:20

where she is

42:21

what advice would you give them like an

42:24

actionable step that they

42:25

they could try to move towards trying

42:28

one day to get to

42:31

your level i don't know how else to say

42:32

it right like how to get to where you

42:34

are

42:36

um i think first of all to find that

42:39

passion that you

42:43

really enjoy you know being challenged

42:46

every day because to to be in this role

42:50

you are challenged every day whether

42:52

it's eternal

42:54

external business or or people or

42:57

organization uh so you have to really

43:00

have

43:00

that mental uh readiness and toughness

43:04

and then to do that

43:05

and uh just actionable it's just like

43:08

you know

43:09

be be like figure out how to take that

43:12

in and be strong right

43:14

um i think the second part as we talked

43:17

about is

43:18

really continue to build your leadership

43:21

skills

43:22

continue to apply your knowledge um

43:26

making good decisions and continue to

43:30

figure out as new information come in

43:32

how do i make better decisions

43:34

nobody is a genius but the ones who are

43:36

making better decisions is the ones

43:38

who's always willing to learn

43:40

always willing to take in different

43:41

perspectives and iterate

43:43

and get better and better i think that

43:45

will be my

43:47

recommendation is developing that

43:50

approach and mindset and and go for it

43:53

you go very far oh that's so good that's

43:57

such good advice

43:59

okay so we have come to the end of the

44:01

questions and

44:02

now if someone wants to know more about

44:05

you

44:06

if they want to follow you how can they

44:09

do that they're like i'm in

44:10

how do i how do i learn more about her

44:13

what are their options

44:14

yes so i am i think over the years

44:18

i did sort of speak in various different

44:22

opportunities and i got a chance you

44:24

know to speak for splunk and others

44:27

um and and that's still out there i

44:29

think that would

44:30

be able to give you some of the

44:31

perspectives am i building out

44:34

my social media sort of

44:37

you know approaches at f5 just started

44:39

and that's why i don't even have

44:41

a particular handle for f5 specifically

44:44

but i do have a linkedin

44:46

and uh you know over there i share you

44:49

know some

44:50

readings and learnings and and i

44:53

certainly welcome if

44:55

that's a place you want to connect and

44:57

and follow

44:58

and i promise i'll work with tanya to

45:01

get my social media site

45:03

much stronger she's such an expert and i

45:06

still remember her

45:08

advice and i'm gonna you know that's one

45:10

of my new year resolutions

45:12

is to to put that into action

45:17

oh my gosh seriously i i have learned a

45:20

lot since i

45:20

accidentally made a handle and now i

45:22

have purple hair it's weird

45:27

it's funny if you if you just go with

45:29

things before you know it

45:30

it's just yeah they just they just grow

45:33

oh absolutely and someone is saying

45:35

twitter haiyan please so i guess there's

45:38

a request that you make a twitter

45:39

account sometimes we will

45:41

i will they've spoken spoken

45:44

yes thank you

45:48

so much for being on the show you have

45:50

shared

45:51

a lot of really good insights and a lot

45:53

of good career advice for literally

45:54

anyone

45:55

not even someone that necessarily wants

45:57

to get all the way up to where you are

46:00

someday thank you so much for being on

46:02

the show

46:03

thank you tanya i had so much fun and

46:07

you've been amazing in so many ways

46:10

thank you for having me

46:12

thank you and with that we will see you

46:15

all

46:16

next week the we hack purple podcast

46:20

every week has an amazing guest and this

46:22

week

46:23

was no different hayan was amazing

46:26

i can't wait until she gets a twitter

46:28

account so i can follow her

46:30

and you better believe it i'm going to

46:31

add it to the webpage when we get it

46:33

thank you everyone to tune who tuned in

46:37

um we want you to know that this episode

46:39

was sponsored by thread fix

46:40

powered by denim group we have so many

46:43

more things in store for you in the

46:45

coming weeks

46:46

we also will be we will be releasing our

46:49

new secure coding course

46:51

in june come hell or high water so stay

46:54

tuned for that

46:55

until then see you next time on the

46:57

wehack purple

47:04

podcast