0:41

Hello, and

0:41

welcome to being boss,

0:43

a podcast for

0:43

creative entrepreneurs. I'm

0:46

Emily Thompson.

0:47

And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

0:53

Alright, let's do this. I'm excited about talking to you all by myself

0:55

today, Kathleen,

0:57

I know it's been a minute since the two of us have hung out just the two of

0:59

us. So let's get into it. Let's

1:04

do it. I'm excited about this one, everybody get ready.

1:08

As always, you

1:08

can find our show notes and

1:10

links and all the things that we

1:10

mentioned at WWW dot being boss

1:15

dot club. So just the other day

1:15

I was doing some of the end of

1:20

the month admin, but you've got

1:20

to do as a creative entrepreneur

1:23

and I noticed on my freshbooks

1:23

dashboard, that I was just

1:27

$1,000 shy of hitting my monthly

1:27

goal. And you guys, it got me in

1:31

gear. with the click of a

1:31

button. I sent out some

1:34

invoices, I got paid within

1:34

hours and I met my goals. So

1:38

fresh books cloud accounting not

1:38

only makes getting paid easier,

1:42

it's going to help you reach

1:42

your goals by giving you the

1:45

status of your business at a

1:45

glance. Try fresh books cloud

1:49

accounting for free by going to

1:49

freshbooks.com slash being boss

1:53

and enter being boss in the How

1:53

did you hear about us section?

2:02

Okay, so before we dig into the

2:02

meat of today's episode, I

2:05

wanted to talk a little bit

2:05

about an Instagram comment slash

2:09

question that we got about what

2:09

it means to do the work. And

2:13

here's exactly what our listener

2:13

said. Hi, boss. Ladies, thanks

2:17

for another great episode. I

2:17

found you about a month ago and

2:20

have become addicted. I love the

2:20

topics your style, tone and

2:24

atmosphere. Even though I'm a

2:24

freelance designer and greeting

2:27

card maker from Copenhagen, the

2:27

ups and downs of starting a

2:30

creative business seems to be

2:30

pretty much universal. That's

2:33

true. She mentioned something

2:33

about taxes, but we won't go

2:37

there. I wondered if you would

2:37

consider doing an episode about

2:40

how to get unstuck and how to

2:40

keep going. I know you always

2:44

say just do the work. But

2:44

sometimes you can get a bit

2:46

stuck. So do you have any tips

2:46

on how to do the work like

2:50

planning apps methods? anything

2:50

really, or maybe I overlooked an

2:54

episode. So once again, thanks

2:54

with a little prayer hand emojis

2:58

Keep up the good work PS, I

2:58

would love to contribute in some

3:01

way Have you considered making

3:01

some cool t shirts for listeners

3:05

to buy. And that's from Maria in

3:05

Denmark. So first off, thank

3:11

you, Maria for taking the time

3:11

to listen, and to ask us what it

3:14

means to do the work and how you

3:14

can contribute. So on

3:17

contributing, I just want to

3:17

remind all of you that if you

3:21

love the show, and you like

3:21

listening, the best way you can

3:23

contribute is by leaving us a

3:23

rating and review on iTunes

3:27

telling a friend about being

3:27

boss, tell them what your

3:29

favorite episode is. Give them

3:29

one that they'll really resonate

3:32

with. And finally sign up for

3:32

our newsletter list at being

3:36

boss club. Alright, so Emily,

3:36

what do you think it means to do

3:41

the work?

3:43

It means to just

3:43

show up and make the motions

3:48

that make the thing? I think I

3:48

don't know, I kind of struggled

3:51

with this question that's always

3:51

come through on Instagram as

3:53

well. And one of the reasons why

3:53

Kathleen and I haven't been

3:57

showing up to record alone

3:57

anymore is that we're kind of

4:02

feeling like we're running out

4:02

of things to say. And then

4:04

that's really not true, because

4:04

we have a shit ton of things to

4:06

say, we feel like there's only

4:06

so many times that we can say,

4:10

do the work. But Maria has

4:10

challenged us to try it another

4:15

way telling you how to do the

4:15

work. And that's what I hope we

4:19

can do today. But I think for

4:19

me, the core of it is showing up

4:24

and doing the motions, whatever

4:24

it may be adding some intentions

4:28

in that is fantastic. All the

4:28

things we can, we can help you

4:33

build layers on top of that, but

4:33

at the core is just showing up

4:38

and doing

4:38

it. I know for

4:38

me as often opening up a laptop.

4:42

I remember whenever I was

4:42

graphic designing full time, you

4:46

know, like I wasn't podcasting

4:46

and doing all the other things

4:48

that my role is now it was

4:48

simply opening the InDesign file

4:51

for me was doing the work. And

4:51

what I really want you guys to

4:55

know is that doing the work

4:55

isn't just one thing, though.

4:58

It's an entire exploration. And

4:58

that's what our entire podcast

5:02

is about. Every single episode

5:02

is us digging into different

5:06

facets of what it means to do

5:06

the work. So the answer to your

5:09

question is in every single

5:09

episode, and it's not just one

5:14

thing, it's going to be

5:14

different for everyone. It's

5:17

going to change and that's why

5:17

we like interviewing so many

5:19

people because what doing the

5:19

work means for them is something

5:22

different every single time.

5:22

Alright, so next up, I freely

5:28

want Maria and all of you to

5:28

know that even the most

5:33

successful bosses feel stuck

5:33

from time to time because this

5:36

is what she's really asking

5:36

like, how do you get past

5:39

feeling stuck. So, Emily, when

5:39

do you feel most stuck? And what

5:45

do you do to get over it?

5:48

Sure. So getting

5:48

unstuck is something I

5:51

definitely can talk about

5:51

because that does that is

5:53

usually like the the point

5:53

before doing the work that

5:56

people struggle getting past I

5:56

don't think doing the work is

5:59

the problem. I think that

5:59

getting to doing the work is the

6:03

problem. And that unstuck

6:03

madness is what comes in

6:05

between. So whenever I'm feeling

6:05

just generally stuck, so maybe

6:10

it's a really fantastic

6:10

beautiful Sunday, Monday like it

6:13

is today when I when we are

6:13

recording, and I don't know

6:16

where to begin, or I don't even

6:16

know if I want to begin because

6:19

I'd rather be outside in the

6:19

beautiful Sunday Monday,

6:22

I judge you'd rather be

6:22

outside than he knows me right

6:26

now.

6:27

Sometimes

6:27

Kathleen, I would I won't take

6:29

it I would love to be hanging

6:29

out with you outside. That would

6:32

be ideal for sure. Except we

6:32

have to stay in the shade for

6:36

you. And that would be sad for me.

6:37

I'm working on.

6:39

Good. But the

6:39

thing that I do whenever I'm

6:42

feeling stuck, or just not

6:42

really wanting to do the work is

6:45

I just show up and get it my to

6:45

do list. I know that it's

6:48

important. Usually you hear

6:48

people to say eat the frog, for

6:52

sure do the like biggest

6:52

grossest thing first, but

6:55

sometimes whenever I'm feeling

6:55

stuck, I want to do something

6:58

fun and easy first, so that I

6:58

can get the momentum going to

7:02

continue on with all the other

7:02

tasks. So it could be something

7:05

that feels gross like tackling

7:05

my inbox, which for me is

7:08

usually eating the frog. Or it

7:08

could be something fun, like

7:12

designing a new sales page or

7:12

something like that, whatever it

7:14

is, I just get started, I get at

7:14

my to do list. And before I know

7:19

it is the end of the day, and I

7:19

totally did all of the things. I

7:23

do often find that whenever

7:23

creatives and or business owners

7:27

are struggling with what it is

7:27

that they want to do next, it's

7:30

usually because they are being

7:30

consistently faced with the

7:35

decision fatigue that comes from

7:35

making a million little

7:38

decisions all day long about

7:38

what it is that they're going to

7:40

do next.

7:41

Amen to that.

7:41

There is a point last week

7:45

whenever I was afraid to open

7:45

our Slack channel because I

7:48

literally thought I just don't

7:48

want to make one more decision.

7:51

Like I can't. And it usually

7:51

hits me hard on Friday,

7:55

for sure, but I

7:55

find that my to do list.

7:59

Opposite from slack. Like let's

7:59

not talk about Slack, because I

8:02

get my to do list is the thing

8:02

that keeps me from getting this

8:05

decision fatigue last week also,

8:05

Lily went out of town for the

8:10

weekend, David and I were home

8:10

alone for a whole week. And we

8:13

kept asking ourselves, what do

8:13

you want to do next, like cuz

8:17

for once we didn't have a kid

8:17

following us around, you know,

8:21

dictating what it was that we

8:21

were doing. So I literally had

8:24

to sit down at one point and

8:24

brain dump a to do list of all

8:27

the things that we wanted to do

8:27

now that we were without the

8:30

responsibility of having a kid.

8:30

And that To Do List helped

8:33

facilitate the next action over

8:33

and over again, so we weren't

8:38

having to make those decisions.

8:38

So I've been super proactive in

8:42

my business. And super mindful

8:42

of this as well. Because I know

8:45

how badly this decision fatigue

8:45

can totally wreck your

8:48

productivity. So I've created a

8:48

massive to do list of all the

8:54

things that have to get done in

8:54

my business at any given point.

8:57

So I batch my quote unquote what

8:57

to do next decision making by

9:02

using project management

9:02

software to hold everything that

9:05

I need to do. So I can go at one

9:05

project, I can create all the

9:09

tasks and schedule them all. So

9:09

like one batch of decision

9:12

making, will give me things to

9:12

do for the next two or three

9:15

weeks. And that for me has been

9:15

huge and helping me feel

9:19

consistently unstuck. I never

9:19

come in really stuck because I

9:24

just go in get on my to do list,

9:24

there are no decisions to be

9:27

made. Just start checking them

9:27

off.

9:30

Yeah, I want

9:30

to give you a big high five for

9:32

that. And it's one of those

9:32

things that I've really

9:35

integrated into my process as

9:35

well. Like if at any point

9:38

something needs to be done, I

9:38

stick it in the to do list. And

9:41

it used to be that maybe it

9:41

would ping pong around in my

9:44

head for a while and I might

9:44

come back to it in a week and be

9:46

like, Oh yeah, we were gonna do

9:46

that thing. It's kind of like,

9:50

whenever you're supposed to get

9:50

together with a friend for lunch

9:52

and you're like, yeah, let's

9:52

totally get together sometime.

9:55

And then no one's pulling out

9:55

their schedules. Like it's never

9:58

gonna happen. It's the same

9:58

thing with your to do list if

10:00

you're feeling stuck and you

10:00

don't know what to do next. Like

10:03

let's say you know, even for

10:03

Maria being a greeting card

10:07

maker, let's say that she wants

10:07

to do a round of pitches and

10:10

like Yeah, that's a great idea.

10:10

I should do a round of pitches

10:12

sometime to like magazines or

10:12

websites that focus on

10:16

stationary don't keep it as just

10:16

an idea start to task it out in

10:21

your to do list and you'll make

10:21

it do So Emily I love that you

10:25

got down into like the granular

10:25

day to day how to get unstuck

10:29

mindset a little bit more broad.

10:29

Whenever I'm feeling stuck. It's

10:33

usually it feels more of like a

10:33

midlife crisis type of

10:37

situation. Yes. And so whenever

10:37

that's happening, like I kind of

10:43

I know that I'm stuck whenever I

10:43

start feeling bored, or

10:48

depressed or kind of like,

10:48

what's the point or feeling like

10:51

every everyone is doing the same

10:51

thing or selling the same thing.

10:55

Like, that's whenever I start to

10:55

feel really stuck. And so I've

10:59

just got to get out of my own

10:59

head. If I am too far into my

11:04

own work, I forget that there is

11:04

a whole world of inspiration out

11:07

there. And it's so easy to begin

11:07

to believe that the bubble that

11:10

you interact within like so from

11:10

your Facebook groups, to your

11:14

Instagram feed, even your, you

11:14

know, local network of peers and

11:18

creative colleagues, you start

11:18

to believe that that's all there

11:21

is right? And you've made it

11:21

your whole world in a really

11:25

good way, because you're living

11:25

what you love, but it can turn

11:29

on you and you can start to feel

11:29

like that's all there is. So

11:34

there's an entire world of

11:34

inspiration out there. So

11:37

whenever I'm feeling stuck,

11:37

first and foremost, getting a

11:40

trip on the books, whether

11:40

that's a day trip or taking, I

11:45

mean, this sounds cheesy, this

11:45

isn't even entirely true for me.

11:47

But taking a new route. Just

11:47

yesterday, I took Foxy out to

11:52

this little Scholastic Book

11:52

Fair, where I met our podcast

11:56

guest, Jessica Lauren. So that

11:56

was so fun to see her in real

12:00

life. But on the way back home,

12:00

I took a wrong turn. And I got

12:04

onto a Turnpike where there was

12:04

not an exit for another 10

12:07

miles, which doesn't seem very

12:07

long. But I felt like I was

12:11

going to another state like I

12:11

felt like I was on a long road

12:14

trip. But it was so I was kind

12:14

of grateful for the experience,

12:18

too. I wasn't in a hurry by any

12:18

means to just kind of like, get

12:22

out of my daily path home and to

12:22

be forced onto a detour. So on a

12:28

grander scale, though, traveling

12:28

to a new city or a new state,

12:32

like finding something new to

12:32

explore for me is huge whenever

12:36

it comes to getting unstuck. So

12:36

it might also even look like

12:40

trying a new kind of workout. So

12:40

maybe trying out a bar class

12:43

that I've never tried or going

12:43

rock climbing. These are all

12:47

things that I've done. But at

12:47

one point, they were new to me

12:50

and they really kind of

12:50

energized me. I also I've

12:54

mentioned this before on the

12:54

podcast, but listening to comedy

12:57

specials is huge for me like so

12:57

just laughter laughter cures

13:03

all.

13:05

That's cheesy, for sure. It's cheesy, but it's so true.

13:10

I love that

13:10

well, and, and I do experience

13:13

this too. So like there is that

13:13

like finite like day to day

13:16

unstuck madness that you have to

13:16

have to get through. But I often

13:22

are the place where I most often

13:22

feel stuck is whatever I'm

13:25

trying to flesh out new ideas,

13:25

or I have this thing in my head

13:29

that I want to put into the

13:29

world It hasn't made itself into

13:32

that to do list yet. So the

13:32

process of getting it out of my

13:35

head and into their to do list

13:35

is where I usually find myself

13:39

most stuck. And I like to I the

13:39

same way I need to get out to

13:43

get out of like where I am right

13:43

now I have to get away from this

13:46

computer guys like for my brain

13:46

to actually work it's best I

13:51

need to not be sitting where I'm

13:51

sitting right this second. And

13:54

where I usually sit whenever I'm

13:54

doing the work, quote unquote.

13:58

So what I'll have to do is walk

13:58

away from my computer and I'll

14:00

either go for a walk, I do love

14:00

going for a good drive, or get

14:05

in my kitchen and start making

14:05

something or whatever it may be

14:08

just so my brain can do

14:08

something else. And it can

14:11

wander around whatever idea for

14:11

sure. And that's usually

14:14

whenever some great ideas or

14:14

fleshing out will happen. And

14:18

then I have to sit down with a

14:18

big notebook, I cannot do this

14:21

at the computer, I have to do it

14:21

on a notebook, and brainstorm

14:25

like pen to paper. And so I have

14:25

several notebooks that like if I

14:29

were to show them to most

14:29

people, it's just a jumble of

14:32

words and weird columns, like

14:32

nothing makes any sense. But it

14:35

totally makes sense to me. So

14:35

whenever I'm feeling unstuck, I

14:39

have discovered this process for

14:39

for getting things out of my

14:43

head. And it includes getting

14:43

away from it for a minute or a

14:46

day or two. And then coming back

14:46

pen to paper to flesh things

14:51

out. And then at that point, I'm

14:51

able to take it, put it into my

14:55

computer into my project manager

14:55

management system as a timed

14:59

line list of tasks, so that from

14:59

then on out, there's no decision

15:02

making, it's just doing the

15:02

thing I've been wanting to do.

15:05

You know,

15:05

and I also want to share that there have been problems to be solved that

15:07

we've been stuck around for

15:11

months at a time, like it isn't

15:11

always resolved within two or

15:15

three days. As decisive and fast

15:15

acting as we are. There are some

15:19

things that just need time to

15:19

unfold. So I want to throw this

15:23

out there too, that if you're

15:23

stuck around kind of a big

15:25

picture idea, or a business

15:25

model idea, or a big marketing

15:30

idea or even a branding idea.

15:30

Um, you might just need to give

15:35

it a few like keep doing the

15:35

work. So like, we're talking But

15:39

now going through the motions of

15:39

making things happen and getting

15:42

hired and making transactions

15:42

where you're getting paid to do

15:45

the work. But if it's like a

15:45

really big idea, maybe just give

15:49

it some time to simmer on the

15:49

backburner a little bit and come

15:52

back to it whenever you're

15:52

ready, or whenever the ideas

15:55

ready,

15:56

for sure, giving

15:56

yourself grace and permission to

15:59

do that, I think is imperative

15:59

for a working creative, where

16:03

you cannot be making all the

16:03

things all the time, if we were

16:05

to act on every idea we've ever

16:05

had. Shit, guys, seriously, my

16:11

life would be intense, and not

16:11

the kind of intense that I would

16:14

enjoy by any means. But by

16:14

giving myself the grace and

16:17

permission to put things on the

16:17

shelf for a moment, so that I

16:19

can do the work. And also let

16:19

those ideas, marinate and mature

16:24

and do whatever it is they need

16:24

to do before I take action. I

16:27

think being very mindful of that

16:27

is super important for, for

16:32

putting your energy where it

16:32

needs to go most in the moment

16:36

and also not jumping on ideas

16:36

too terribly early. But that's a

16:40

whole other conversation for

16:40

another day.

16:44

All right, so

16:44

beyond getting stuck on things,

16:47

how, how do you like what's your

16:47

mindset or attitude when it

16:52

comes to doing the work and making sure that like, you're still a happy, productive

16:54

person, even whenever you're

16:58

feeling stuck, maybe or like

16:58

kind of grinding through that to

17:01

do list,

17:02

right, actually

17:02

doing the things that I don't

17:04

want to be doing. I have to

17:04

totally set myself up on a sort

17:10

of reward system to get through

17:10

most of my days, or like my to

17:15

do list is, is thick, like it's,

17:15

it's quite hefty. And sometimes

17:20

it can be really overwhelming,

17:20

especially on Monday mornings,

17:23

like Monday mornings, I usually

17:23

come in the earliest, I'm

17:27

usually hitting things the

17:27

hardest, because it's

17:29

overwhelming all the things that

17:29

I have to get done, and I need

17:32

to get out them or I'll just

17:32

like lay in bed and cry all day.

17:35

Not really, but maybe. So I have

17:35

to give myself or I have like a

17:40

little reward system where you

17:40

know, if I click all my buttons

17:44

for the day, then I'll treat

17:44

myself to lunch on the front

17:48

porch, instead of at the kitchen

17:48

counter or wherever it may be.

17:52

And it's little things, it's

17:52

little things like that, that

17:54

really, really help. But I also

17:54

think that like regardless of

17:59

what I'm tackling, and how big

17:59

my to do list as I have to be

18:04

positive about it, if I were to

18:04

get up any day and be overly

18:09

bitchy about what it is that I

18:09

have to tackle in any given day,

18:14

let alone being crabby on the

18:14

daily about it, then I might as

18:18

well just throw in the towel and

18:18

I have totally adopted whenever

18:22

we did our interview with Lisa

18:22

Congdon and her partner clay,

18:26

like we chose this mantra, I

18:26

have to tell myself that not too

18:30

often because I do tend to stay

18:30

pretty positive but sometimes

18:34

have to remind myself that I

18:34

chose this so that even if an

18:39

upcoming day or week is super

18:39

overwhelming, or just really

18:43

fucking mundane, I chose it and

18:43

I'm going to do it and I'm going

18:47

to enjoy it. Otherwise Don't

18:47

bother. What about

18:56

that all sounded very positive.

19:01

Should I left my

19:01

job and like, I also I get to do

19:04

cool shit, we get to do really,

19:04

really cool shit. And it still

19:07

work though. Like, whenever I

19:07

have a totally had work, right?

19:12

Whenever I have a task on my to

19:12

do list that like it's Friday

19:16

are releasing a minisode about

19:16

cocktails and I have to go do an

19:20

Instagram story where I'm making

19:20

a cocktail. That is still a task

19:24

on my to do list that I cannot

19:24

mark off until in the day

19:27

Friday. So no doing it early.

19:27

And actually, the day that I had

19:32

to do that if you guys aren't

19:32

familiar. A couple weeks ago, we

19:35

did a cocktail minisode I wanted

19:35

to do an Instagram story. It was

19:39

a great idea weeks in advance.

19:39

So I made myself attacks where I

19:42

even think Caitlyn did it, which

19:42

is even worse, and someone else

19:45

gives you a task. It's like a

19:45

whole other level of what the

19:47

fuck. So Friday comes around. I

19:47

did not want to make a cocktail.

19:52

I did not want to do that shit.

19:52

But it was on my list. And I

19:56

really did want to do it. And so

19:56

for me, that was one of those

19:59

moments where I had to just do

19:59

it and smell and I loved it. The

20:04

cocktail was fantastic. And the

20:04

whole time thing and yes, this

20:07

is my job. And this is a pretty

20:07

sweet job. If ever there were

20:11

one so even like even the really

20:11

exciting things can feel really

20:15

mundane, but it's keeping that

20:15

positive attitude that makes you

20:19

enjoy the fun things as well as

20:19

the not so fun things.

20:22

Okay, I want to dig into a couple of things that you said there because I

20:24

have a few ideas like this is

20:27

behind the scenes real chat. You

20:27

guys

20:29

helped me out Kathleen.

20:30

So one thing

20:30

is that um whenever it comes to

20:33

other people tasking you with to

20:33

dues one of the things that I

20:36

love about our Wednesday morning

20:36

meetings With our entire team is

20:40

that we are all just kind of

20:40

chatting through our week and

20:43

our tasks and our to do's. We're

20:43

kind of blending Big Vision

20:48

ideas with daily grind tasks

20:48

that we need to get done. But

20:51

what's cool about it is that

20:51

because we all use the same

20:54

project management software,

20:54

typically everybody's tasking

20:57

themselves with things to do, or

20:57

like, we're kind of talking

21:01

about it out loud. So it doesn't

21:01

feel so much like everyone's the

21:05

boss of everyone else, right?

21:05

It's kind of like we've set our

21:09

team up so that they are the

21:09

boss of themselves in a lot of

21:12

ways. Yes. But one thing I was

21:12

thinking is that we always have

21:16

a money. Monday morning huddle,

21:16

the two of us kind of over

21:20

slack. And I've been realizing

21:20

that it gives me a little bit of

21:23

anxiety, like waking up Monday

21:23

morning, knowing that I'm about

21:26

to get like a list, right of

21:26

like yours that you've got on

21:30

your plate. Here's what I need

21:30

from you. And here's what we're

21:32

doing, right? Yep. So I was

21:32

thinking and I got in yesterday,

21:37

Sunday evening,

21:38

I noticed

21:38

Kathleen got ahead of me this

21:40

week, guys. She was like, Fuck

21:40

you, Emily. I'm doing it.

21:43

Because like I

21:43

had an anxiety about it, you

21:46

know. So what I was thinking is,

21:46

I wonder if Monday's are already

21:50

crazy for you, like hitting the

21:50

ground running. We should do

21:53

those on Fridays, like either

21:53

Friday, or Friday afternoons and

21:58

kind of like, here's what's

21:58

happening in the week ahead. And

22:01

it might help us prepare more

22:01

instead of feeling like we're

22:03

jumping into cold water on

22:03

Monday morning, or hot water

22:07

depending on what

22:10

season. Right?

22:10

I'm totally down for shifting

22:15

that that's actually a really

22:15

good idea. Because I usually get

22:18

in, I usually do a quick look

22:18

through evolve my things Friday

22:22

in the day, like I'm done with

22:22

all my things for the week. I'm

22:25

not gonna work anymore, but what

22:25

do I have looking ahead? And

22:28

then I always do an even more

22:28

hardcore, like, what's ahead for

22:33

my week, either Sunday morning,

22:33

or Sunday night or Monday

22:35

morning. But if I could do that

22:35

Friday night, I wouldn't have to

22:39

worry about doing it Sunday

22:39

night or Monday morning.

22:42

So there we go. This is what it looks like you guys to do the work in

22:43

action. We have discussions like

22:47

this.

22:49

love that idea. I'm totally down. I'm sorry, it gives you anxiety, let's fix it

22:52

No, like not

22:52

in a bad way. And not even in a

22:54

real obvious way. It's one of those things where I didn't realize how much it was maybe

22:56

weighing on me and more than

22:59

anything, probably just because

22:59

I work out first thing Monday

23:01

morning. So I don't even see it

23:01

until three hours after you've

23:05

written it. And I'm like, Oh my

23:05

gosh, Emily must think I'm

23:07

slacking whenever like it's my

23:07

same work schedule that I've

23:11

always had. Right?

23:12

No, I know you're coming in later. It's fine. But no, I think that's a,

23:14

that's a wonderful solution.

23:18

All right. So

23:18

I wanted to share one of my

23:21

mindset tricks for not

23:21

necessarily getting unstuck, but

23:25

getting really focused. And for

23:25

me, of all time, like if I could

23:30

just pick one thing, if yours is

23:30

like being positive, and I chose

23:34

this, mine is getting really

23:34

specific about what it is that I

23:38

want. So really thinking about

23:38

what I want to be doing all day,

23:43

thinking about what I want to be

23:43

doing a year from now and really

23:47

visualizing it. So that might be

23:47

getting on Pinterest and making

23:50

a mood board of what it looks

23:50

and feels like to live the life

23:54

that I want, or even writing a

23:54

really detailed story. So we

23:58

were up in Toronto for our

23:58

freshbooks event. When was that

24:03

last October, October?

24:05

Yeah,

24:05

hashtag being

24:05

boss, Toronto. And we hung out

24:08

with my friend Tammy falls. And

24:08

she's a life coach who uses a

24:13

specific practice called Bhavana

24:13

Bhavana.

24:18

I remember

24:18

talking about this, when I

24:20

that's not the state and I can

24:20

never,

24:22

I can new

24:22

words. I can never say it. But

24:26

it's basically writing out a

24:26

very detailed story about what

24:30

you want and getting as detailed

24:30

as possible and are coached or

24:34

my coach Jay prior tells me this

24:34

all the time, which is if you

24:37

can see it, it's yours. And so

24:37

those are kind of the mantras

24:41

that run through my head every

24:41

single time whenever I'm feeling

24:44

stuck or even need to get

24:44

focused. It's like okay, what do

24:47

I want? And this is everything

24:47

from where do I want to live?

24:51

To? What do I want to be doing

24:51

all day like my work to what do

24:55

I want to make next? All of it?

24:58

No, I think I think that's really important. Being able to get super, super

25:00

specific about what it is that

25:04

you want and gives you the path

25:04

forward. Whereas if you don't

25:08

know what you're working for,

25:08

you're just gonna be all over

25:10

the place because there's no end

25:10

point. But if you can create

25:13

that end point doing the work is

25:13

so much more focused. And also

25:18

not what is the word I'm looking

25:18

for not forgiving, but

25:22

gratifying. Because you know,

25:22

you're working for the thing

25:26

that you want. And so I think

25:26

that makes doing the work a lot

25:29

easier. you're much more likely

25:29

to actually show up and do it if

25:32

you know what will happen when

25:32

you're done.

25:35

So we're

25:35

friends with a lot of very

25:37

successful and Driven

25:37

entrepreneurs, I listened to a

25:41

lot of podcasts where some, like

25:41

major entrepreneurs are being

25:44

profiled. So we're talking to

25:44

Richard Branson, like the top

25:48

dogs, right Oprah, all these

25:48

people. And so I went in for us

25:52

to brainstorm some ideas about

25:52

the qualities and

25:56

characteristics that really

25:56

successful people portray

26:01

whenever it comes to their

26:01

mindset, specifically, so

26:03

whether that's around getting

26:03

unstuck, or getting focused or

26:06

just doing the work. So one of

26:06

the first ones that I thought

26:11

about was always being like a

26:11

student of life, always learning

26:15

something new. So whether that's

26:15

reading books, or just having

26:20

conversations with mentors, or

26:20

listening to podcasts, I think

26:26

that the most incredibly

26:26

successful people I've watched

26:29

are constantly continuing their

26:29

education, they're taking

26:33

courses, they're practicing

26:33

their craft, they're doing it

26:37

all the time.

26:38

So that I agree

26:38

with that. I also think part of

26:41

that is also being open to be

26:41

proven wrong. I think whenever

26:45

people shut themselves off to

26:45

learning, they're shutting, or

26:50

if they're shutting themselves off to learning, they're probably the kind of people who

26:52

will like say the thing and then

26:55

be sure they're so right, that

26:55

they won't listen to anyone

26:57

else's, like opinions or facts.

26:57

And I think that whenever you

27:02

can have an opinion, or you

27:02

know, give direction or

27:05

whatever, but be open to

27:05

learning that maybe your way

27:09

isn't the right way, or that

27:09

your answer isn't the one, then

27:12

you are much more open for

27:12

growth and evolution, which I

27:16

think is super important for

27:16

someone who wants to show up and

27:20

do the work, you can be better

27:20

at doing the work if you learn

27:24

from others.

27:25

And I think that that plays into just being really curious. And so even from

27:27

our Instagram question like how

27:32

do you get unstuck? When am I

27:32

ways is just asking a ton of

27:35

questions like How could we be

27:35

doing this better? And it's

27:38

something that we do all the

27:38

time? How could we be doing this

27:40

better? What's working? what's

27:40

not working? What could be

27:43

refined? Who could we learn more

27:43

from? getting really super

27:49

curious? Like, why why are we

27:49

doing it this way? Why is

27:51

everyone else doing it this way?

27:51

is a really great way to get

27:56

into a mindset that's going to

27:56

lead to success, or, or just a

28:01

lot of confusion.

28:04

What are the I

28:04

think there is I think there is

28:07

the possibility for being overly

28:07

curious. I think people can use

28:11

curiosity or use like never

28:11

ending curiosity as a way to

28:16

procrastinate actually doing the

28:16

work, which I think is a sticky

28:20

place to get into. So just

28:20

curious enough for sure, but not

28:24

so curious that you're just

28:24

asking questions and not doing

28:26

anything else?

28:27

Oh, damn, right.

28:29

Oh, no, that's

28:29

a good point. And, you know, I

28:33

think that there's these

28:33

juxtapositions with all of this,

28:36

whenever it comes,

28:37

I think it's all

28:37

a balance, I think you can I

28:39

think you can learn too much and

28:39

never actually take action, I

28:42

think you can be overly curious

28:42

and not ever actually take

28:45

action. But I think some of this

28:45

is all very important. Um, I

28:49

also, I also think that a boss

28:49

needs to tap into some luck, a

28:59

little bit. I love this one a

28:59

ton. Because I do believe in

29:04

luck, for sure. But I think you

29:04

have to prepare yourself for

29:06

luck. I think you have to put

29:06

yourself in the right place at

29:10

the right time. I don't think

29:10

you just happen upon it. So I

29:13

think what there's like this

29:13

really cool thing, and everyone

29:16

should know that we suck at

29:16

these sayings or something about

29:19

like, successes where

29:19

preparation meets luck or

29:23

something like or

29:24

like, luck

29:24

shows up whenever you're doing

29:27

the work.

29:28

Maybe Maybe we

29:28

can just make up these bars. So

29:31

I like this intimate hopefully

29:31

you guys know what we're going

29:34

for. But that's how I feel about

29:34

luck is that you have to you

29:37

have to meet it. And that does

29:37

not just come to you. So I also

29:41

think part of luck is having

29:41

that positive attitude. I think

29:45

you can believe you're unlucky,

29:45

I think you can believe that.

29:48

Nothing good will ever happened

29:48

to you. And you'll be right. But

29:51

I think you can go into the

29:51

world thinking that if I do

29:54

these things, great things will

29:54

happen, then you'll also

29:57

probably be right. So I think

29:57

luck is something you do have to

30:00

cultivate.

30:01

Yeah, I once

30:01

saw a study that kind of

30:05

measured luck. And it was

30:05

literally the same for

30:09

everybody. It's just that people

30:09

either identified as lucky or

30:12

unlucky. So it was up to them.

30:12

But I believe in a little extra

30:18

luck and really taking note of

30:18

luck and I think that's when you

30:22

do a great job of Emily is

30:22

taking note of synchronicities

30:26

and that's where it like shines

30:26

big time. So I've been listening

30:30

to a lot of how I built this

30:30

that I've talked about it a lot

30:34

on this podcast. They're not

30:34

advertising with us. So whenever

30:41

they're profiling, like the

30:41

founder of whole foods or the

30:45

founder of Patagonia, I feel

30:45

like a lot of them have talked

30:48

about how they were working just

30:48

as hard as any of us, right?

30:54

They just got lucky. And that

30:54

was the difference between

30:56

millions and billions. So I'm

30:56

still working toward the

30:59

millions. But I think that luck

30:59

is what will get us the

31:03

billions.

31:04

Amen to that,

31:04

yeah, must start rubbing my

31:07

pennies together, whatever it is

31:07

that you're supposed to do to

31:09

bring good like, I don't know,

31:09

cross my fingers and my toes.

31:12

Um, I agree. But beyond luck, I

31:12

think that being kind and being

31:18

honest, are two that are super

31:18

important in this being kind

31:23

with others and yourself and

31:23

honest with others, as well as

31:28

your as yourself. Those are some

31:28

basic one, guys, super basic

31:31

ones that are very important

31:31

that you still need to practice

31:33

them.

31:34

Right. And you know, just stuff like knowing your strengths and weaknesses. I

31:36

know that that's shifted my work

31:40

and my mindset, whenever I just

31:40

know what I'm good at and what

31:43

I'm not good at, and then doing

31:43

what I want. Yeah, like get

31:47

unstuck by doing what you want to do.

31:48

Right? For sure.

31:48

And I think that even like

31:52

getting down to like business

31:52

model, knowing your strengths

31:55

and weaknesses, like you know,

31:55

for designers who are doing

31:58

branding, but hate websites, but

31:58

do it anyway, even though they

32:01

know they suck at it, or

32:01

whatever it may be. Don't do

32:04

them know your strengths and

32:04

weaknesses, double down on your

32:07

strengths and find ways to

32:07

either overcome or ignore your

32:11

weaknesses. whatever needs to be

32:11

the case, I also think that part

32:17

of being able to show up and do

32:17

the work effectively is owning

32:21

your shit, whatever you think

32:21

that may mean, I think that

32:25

people who don't succeed are the

32:25

people who are passing the blame

32:30

to other people, or people who

32:30

aren't handling problems,

32:34

whether they're their own

32:34

problems, or someone else's

32:37

problems that you just need to

32:37

shut up and fix and go on with

32:39

your life, whatever it may be. I

32:39

think that think that a boss

32:42

knows how to knows how to own

32:42

their shit and problem solve

32:45

along the

32:46

way. Yes, and

32:46

then also just persevere. Like

32:50

keep doing it. Keep doing it

32:50

every day going up ever all the

32:54

time all day.

32:57

I agree. So I

32:57

want to talk I want to talk for

33:00

a second about one of the things

33:00

that sort of prompted this

33:03

episode, or at least is wanting

33:03

to dive into this a little bit

33:05

more. When we were in New

33:05

Orleans a couple of months ago,

33:08

shooting our book photos. We

33:08

were having lunch in between

33:14

photoshoots at this really cool

33:14

restaurant in the quarter. And

33:17

we were just like sitting there

33:17

seeing you and our friend Sarah

33:20

Becker Lillard, he was doing our

33:20

photos we were just chatting and

33:23

we were talking about or talking

33:23

about the book. And we're

33:26

talking about our team and how

33:26

things were going with, with the

33:29

things that we were doing, and

33:29

the upcoming projects and things

33:32

that we want to do. Like it's

33:32

just like fun girl time business

33:35

talk, as a food, little little

33:35

booze as well as a great time.

33:39

And there was this guy who was

33:39

sitting at the bar, and we

33:43

noticed him being kind of chatty

33:43

with the with the bartender. He

33:47

was there alone. And we were

33:47

just talking though minding your

33:49

own business. And as we were

33:49

getting up to leave, he stopped.

33:53

And he stopped us to ask us our

33:53

advice, which is well, he goes,

33:57

can

33:57

I ask you guys

33:57

a question? And I was like, Oh,

34:00

great.

34:00

Right here. Yeah.

34:06

But yeah, it was so funny, because he was like, You guys look like, I

34:08

don't know you're in charge.

34:12

Right?

34:14

So you guys look

34:14

like you know what you're doing?

34:16

And we were

34:16

talking about business. So we

34:19

were and we're not the quietest

34:19

people. We're not? We're not

34:23

dainty ladies. No.

34:25

We're definitely going and telling everyone our business, whether they want to

34:27

know it or not. So I'm sorry.

34:30

But we're talking about things like our book, because obviously we're

34:32

there shooting our book, we were

34:34

talking about our team and

34:34

roles. I mean, whenever Emily

34:37

and I get together, literally,

34:37

if we're sharing a hotel room,

34:41

before the light comes on, we

34:41

might be talking about work. So

34:44

we're talking about upcoming

34:44

projects and dreams and ideas.

34:49

And so I think that he really

34:49

noticed not only the stuff that

34:53

we were talking about, but that

34:53

we were having a really good

34:56

time talking about business,

34:56

like talking shop is our hobby.

35:00

I mean, that's how this podcast

35:00

started. And I think that he

35:04

noticed that we were conveying

35:04

confidence whenever we were

35:08

talking about it. But then also,

35:08

I think that he probably thought

35:11

that we were somewhat

35:11

approachable. Maybe had nothing

35:14

to do that with the fact that we

35:14

were in full hair and makeup for

35:16

a photoshoot.

35:18

Right? Or maybe

35:18

we just looked fantastic. And he

35:20

wanted to chat with us next,

35:20

which I'm totally down for. I

35:23

mean, whatever it was, he felt

35:23

that he could he could stop this

35:25

for a chat and so we did.

35:28

Yeah, and so

35:28

he was having a problem. Do you

35:31

want to share with our listeners

35:31

what that was? Sure. Let's

35:34

see if I can

35:34

remember it more or less. Before

35:37

he had went on vacation. To the

35:37

French Quarter, for a couple of

35:41

days, he, he had hired a new

35:41

assistant and the new assistant

35:45

had showed up. And was fantastic

35:45

was sort of dream assistant

35:49

material. She was there for two

35:49

or three days. And then just

35:53

before he left, she didn't come

35:53

in the last day before he left

35:57

and didn't call, didn't email,

35:57

nothing, just total, no show.

36:01

And then I think the next day,

36:01

like the day he left, she also

36:04

didn't show up. And then once he

36:04

got there, she texted him. And

36:07

it was some mess about like, not

36:07

feeling well, and he was wanting

36:11

to know what he should do.

36:11

Because the right thing would

36:14

have been for her to text or

36:14

email or call the first day and

36:19

say, I'm not coming to work.

36:19

That's not what second day, the

36:23

second day and the third

36:24

day, like if

36:24

you're not coming to work, you

36:26

need to let someone know every

36:26

single day that you're not

36:28

coming in,

36:29

agreed. And so

36:29

especially like new job, all the

36:32

things and so his question for

36:32

us was, what would you do? What

36:35

would you do in this situation?

36:38

Are we answering that on air?

36:40

Well,

36:42

I don't know.

36:42

Yeah, I can't remember what I

36:44

said. I can't, like I think I go

36:44

she's out.

36:47

I think you did.

36:47

And I was like, consider giving

36:50

her a second chance. Cuz I

36:50

remember us both like having

36:53

opposing views. Yeah, we usually

36:53

do.

36:56

Which is funny

36:56

because I just had a situation

36:58

like this and you were like,

36:58

she's gone. And I was like, I'm

37:01

gonna give her a second.

37:04

Oh, actually, I

37:04

also was a Pimm's cup date, and

37:08

therefore significantly more

37:08

forgiving.

37:11

So Emily's

37:11

your boss, give her a drink

37:14

before having a hard conversation.

37:15

Right? I'll be

37:15

much more pleasant for sure. And

37:18

that's just general general

37:18

conversation, for sure. Um, so I

37:22

can't remember how it all ended

37:22

up ending. But I remember

37:26

leaving thinking, no, quite

37:26

often we have conversations

37:29

about like, what dudes think of

37:29

us as like cute little creative

37:34

entrepreneurs doing their thing.

37:34

But to be, you know, in a place

37:37

where we're having conversations

37:37

about how legit our business is

37:42

to have a dude, a grown man, an

37:42

older man stopped us to ask us

37:47

our opinion, for a scenario such

37:47

as this gave us both not didn't

37:55

give us confidence, because I

37:55

think neither of us lacked

37:57

confidence in that area at all,

37:57

but was sort of a note of like,

38:01

you know what?

38:02

We are bosses.

38:02

Fuck, I know. You know, I hate

38:05

to say that that incident was

38:05

validating because I don't need

38:10

my bossiness to be validated by

38:10

some middle aged white dude. But

38:16

it was kind of validating. And I

38:16

think it's because I mean, we're

38:18

coming from centuries of, you

38:18

know, like guys being in charge.

38:24

And we're coming from a culture

38:24

and society that value suits

38:29

more than values creativity. And

38:29

so for us to be in the middle of

38:33

this incredibly creative city,

38:33

working on a very creative

38:37

project that we are getting paid

38:37

to do not sitting in suits,

38:40

having booze,

38:40

cussing, and laughing as we're

38:44

talking about our business and

38:44

have some guy value our opinion,

38:48

was it was gratifying for sure.

38:51

It felt like a certain amount of just recognition or even

38:53

acknowledgement from, from what

38:58

has been deemed as capital P

38:58

professional,

39:01

greed. And so

39:01

and we wanted to share this

39:03

story as just like, as a

39:03

showcase of what showing up like

39:09

a boss can look like to other

39:09

people. And again, not that

39:13

we're like super concerned about

39:13

what everyone thinks about us,

39:16

even though as a brand you

39:16

obviously should. Kathleen and I

39:20

have cultivated not only a brand

39:20

that showcases this like we're

39:26

boss, we do the work, whatever

39:26

it may be. But we exude this in

39:31

public, when we're having

39:31

private conversations as you are

39:35

practicing these values as you

39:35

are showing up and doing the

39:39

work and giving it your all and

39:39

all the things that we preach

39:42

consistently. people notice and

39:42

it matters to people and they

39:47

see you as someone who is an

39:47

expert or professional or

39:50

someone who can help even if you

39:50

break all the traditional molds,

39:54

Kathleen and I were there full

39:54

hair makeup, like tattoos,

39:57

showing drinks in our hands, all

39:57

the things and I was probably

40:01

wearing a see through shirt. I

40:01

think maybe I had no not that

40:06

day. I fully covered that day.

40:06

Maybe that was it. Whatever it

40:14

may be, that was a moment for us

40:14

or we saw these like these

40:18

pillars of bosses come together

40:18

for us in a way that that showed

40:24

us that the work that we're

40:24

doing, not only like in our

40:27

business, but what it's done for

40:27

us personally, is definitely

40:31

putting us where we want to be

40:31

we want to be the kind of women

40:35

in business that not only women

40:35

look up to, but men do as well.

40:38

Well, because the shit that

40:38

we're doing is real.

40:42

Yeah. And that's a whole other conversation when he does

40:46

save that one for later.

40:49

So I feel like

40:49

there's so much more that we

40:51

could say on the subject of

40:51

getting unstuck and getting

40:54

focused and what it means to do

40:54

the work and really run it

40:57

through all of our pillars. But

40:57

today, we talked a lot about

41:00

mindset. And I think that's

41:00

probably a good place to stop.

41:04

And we'll make sure to cover

41:04

more around what it means to do

41:07

the work whenever it comes to

41:07

habits and routines, boundaries,

41:12

money, and even, you know,

41:12

processes and apps and tools

41:16

that we use. So if you guys

41:16

haven't checked out any of our

41:21

archives, be sure to scroll

41:21

through and pick one that stands

41:25

out to you listen to it, share

41:25

it with a friend, have a

41:29

conversation about it, and

41:29

you'll really start to uncover

41:32

what it means to you to do the

41:32

work via Zynga and then you can

41:37

go have cocktails in New Orleans

41:37

and hope to get hit on slash ask

41:41

for advice by some dude tip he

41:43

did not hit on us. That's rude of me.

41:45

No, not at

41:45

all. I I feel like I'm gonna

41:48

have a vulnerability hangover

41:48

about that conversation because

41:51

I think like ultimately, I don't

41:51

know there's like a certain

41:54

amount of acknowledgment which

41:54

makes me think like if you need

41:56

acknowledgement, a lot of us are

41:56

doing work by ourselves and we

42:00

feel like what are we working

42:00

for? It's it's hard to kind of

42:05

work in a vacuum if you feel

42:05

isolated or like you're not

42:08

being seen or heard by anyone.

42:08

So I think I was just like a

42:11

good moment of, I don't know

42:11

being seen

42:14

right? Well,

42:14

proof I think it was a good rule

42:18

of proof where which is

42:18

something that you need

42:21

occasionally. So thank you man

42:21

it kingfish you win.

42:27

This episode

42:27

of being boss was brought to you

42:30

by fresh books cloud accounting,

42:30

thank you to fresh books for

42:33

sponsoring us and you guys can

42:33

try it for free by going to

42:35

freshbooks comm slash being

42:35

boss. Thank you so much to our

42:41

team and sponsors who make being

42:41

boss possible our sound engineer

42:44

and web developer Corey winter.

42:44

Our editorial director and

42:47

content manager Caitlin brain,

42:47

our community manager and social

42:50

media director Sharon lukey. And

42:50

are being countered David

42:54

Austin, with support from braid

42:54

creative and indicia biography.

42:58

Do the work. Be

42:58

boss, and we'll see you next

43:00

week.