0:48

As a busy

0:48

professional, it's likely that

0:50

support comes up for you quite

0:50

often, from getting the support

0:54

that you need from your team or

0:54

your family, to giving

0:57

appropriate support to your team

0:57

or your family or your customers

1:01

or your clients. We all get and

1:01

give support to everyone around

1:05

us. But we also oftentimes feel

1:05

like it's missing the mark. So

1:10

how do we hit the mark? And how

1:10

do we help those around us hit

1:14

the mark. It's not through more

1:14

systems or more instructions, or

1:18

definitely not through more

1:18

managing. It's through more

1:21

leadership. Welcome to being

1:21

boss, a podcast for creatives,

1:25

business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live

1:27

life on their own terms. I'm

1:31

your host, Emily Thompson. And

1:31

this week, I'm talking support

1:35

and leadership with my boss pal

1:35

Sally netherwood. Sally is a

1:39

global leadership coach based in

1:39

the UK, working with clients all

1:44

around the world. She has spent

1:44

the last two decades coaching

1:47

extraordinary business leaders,

1:47

entrepreneurs and changemakers

1:50

as they pursue their leadership

1:50

journey. Sally sees her role as

1:55

a catalyst for transformational

1:55

moments along this leadership

1:59

journey to create the

1:59

magnificent leaps that propel

2:03

her clients to a new and richer

2:03

way of living and leading. She

2:07

is the leaders champion holding

2:07

them to a level of brilliance

2:11

they scarcely dare believe as

2:11

achievable. The way she works is

2:15

challenging and liberating, it

2:15

creates pivotal life enhancing

2:18

moments of transformation. I met

2:18

Sally several months ago when

2:22

she joined me in the C suite the

2:22

exclusive application only third

2:26

tier of the being boss

2:26

community, where I meet with the

2:29

six figure boss members every

2:29

week to discuss relevant topics

2:34

and workshop obstacles and

2:34

opportunities. Sally immediately

2:38

struck me as a gem of a boss

2:38

with her quiet, observant

2:42

demeanor her impeccable

2:42

questions and her ability to

2:45

leave us all scribbling down.

2:45

What we've since dubbed as Sally

2:50

isms whenever she has something

2:50

to say the conversation you're

2:54

about to hear was recorded live

2:54

with a group of community bosses

2:57

joining in for one of our

2:57

monthly clubhouse conversations

3:00

which is available to our second

3:00

tier of the community. And to be

3:03

clear, the community does have

3:03

three tiers. There's the

3:06

community, which gives access to

3:06

all bosses, the clubhouse where

3:10

you get access to extra being

3:10

boss content, and the C suite

3:14

that application only peer

3:14

mastermind group of six figure

3:17

CEOs. So as you listen through,

3:17

you may hear us sharing more

3:21

about what's happening in the

3:21

chat or taking questions from

3:24

the audience who were all

3:24

totally digging our chat on

3:27

support and leadership, as I'm

3:27

sure you're about to as well.

3:31

But now before we dive in,

3:31

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4:22

being boss and enter being boss

4:22

and the How did you hear about

4:25

us section? Hello, everyone. All

4:25

the bosses in the room? Hope

4:34

you're doing well. How are you

4:34

Sally?

4:37

I'm good

4:37

Emily. Hi, how are you? Hello

4:39

everyone.

4:42

Everyone, I've

4:42

invited Sally to join me this

4:45

month, I guess for this club

4:45

house conversation. I cannot

4:48

wait to introduce everyone to

4:48

her You are going to love her.

4:52

What's going on today is Sally

4:52

and I are going to be having a

4:55

conversation around support very

4:55

specifically leadership. I have

5:00

very much so enjoy getting to

5:00

know Sally over the past several

5:05

weeks in the C suite. And one of

5:05

my favorite things is how she's

5:10

pretty quiet. Which is

5:10

interesting for the boss crowd.

5:14

Usually bosses are like in their

5:14

Sally's very like observational.

5:20

And then whenever she speaks

5:20

everyone in the room just start

5:23

scribbling down exactly what it

5:23

is that she's saying. So we've

5:27

all coined them as Sally isms in

5:27

this in the C suite. And so I

5:33

thought it was very important

5:33

for me to bring her to all of

5:35

you and show you this amazing

5:35

resource. And boss mine that is

5:40

in the community. And we're here

5:40

today talking about leadership

5:44

and support, which is the topic

5:44

of the month. So, Sally, with

5:49

all of that I would love for you

5:49

to share us a little bit or

5:52

share with us a little bit about

5:52

yourself and how it is that

5:56

you've gotten to this place.

5:59

Thank you.

5:59

Emily's no pressure there is

6:01

though, Sally isms to order,

6:01

I'll have to see what I can do.

6:07

So how did I get here? Well,

6:07

I've been doing it, as you said,

6:10

an intro for 20 years. So it

6:10

feels like I've been doing it

6:13

forever. I do. I do know the

6:13

story of how I got here. But it

6:16

is almost so long ago. It's like

6:16

a story that I know, rather than

6:20

really remembering it. So my

6:20

professional life was in

6:24

advertising. At the start, I did

6:24

10 years in advertising. And I

6:28

got to the point where that

6:28

wasn't right for me anymore. But

6:31

I wasn't sure quite what was

6:31

right. And I had an idea for a

6:34

business I wanted to start. So

6:34

it was definitely an

6:37

entrepreneurial idea. And I left

6:37

the advertising agency that I

6:42

was at to start this idea. And I

6:42

got my spare room all set up

6:47

with a computer and a desk and

6:47

I'm ready to go and started

6:51

researching this idea. And the

6:51

more I researched it, the more I

6:55

thought, I don't want to do

6:55

this, this is a service I want

6:58

to buy. It's a service I want to

6:58

pay for it was a sort of a

7:02

concierge idea helping people

7:02

run their lives. Because when I

7:05

had had a really busy life and

7:05

advertising, that's what I

7:08

wanted, I needed somebody to get

7:08

my washing machine fixed to sort

7:12

out my holidays to to help me

7:12

run my life. So I thought, well,

7:16

I'll leave advertising and do

7:16

that. But it's not what I wanted

7:20

to do. So he had that kind of

7:20

moment of Oh, so what do I do?

7:25

And it was coaching was around

7:25

then life coaching. I think it

7:30

was probably better known in

7:30

America two years ago, that 20

7:33

years ago than it was in the UK.

7:33

But I had heard of coaching,

7:36

mostly from life coaching. So I

7:36

got myself a life coach to help

7:40

me work out what I was going to

7:40

do. And I should say that while

7:44

while I was sitting there

7:44

working out how I was going to

7:48

make a living, having walked out

7:48

of one various people started

7:52

calling me up and asking me to

7:52

help them to give them advice.

7:55

Could you talk me through this?

7:55

I used to work with you a few

7:58

years ago, could you give me

7:58

some advice on this. So I was

8:01

for virtually no money at all,

8:01

sort of a you know, sort of

8:04

embarrassed to charge for it was

8:04

sort of giving people an hour

8:09

here and afternoon there of my

8:09

time to sort their confidence

8:13

out or their business out or

8:13

their ideas out and got myself a

8:16

life coach and said, right, you

8:16

need to tell me what I'm going

8:19

to do for a living because I'm

8:19

blank. I have no idea what I'm

8:22

going to do for a living. Yeah,

8:22

I'm doing this stuff now, which

8:25

is helping people you know, with

8:25

confidence and things but you

8:27

know, but what am I actually

8:27

going to do for a living? And

8:31

she, of course, we're family,

8:31

maybe maybe you're doing it?

8:35

Maybe Maybe it's come to us

8:35

though coaching really did come

8:38

to me. And as a result of that

8:38

life coach that I work with, I

8:43

learned about coaching, I

8:43

learned about where to go for

8:46

training. Well, I say I learned

8:46

but I'm not always a huge

8:50

researcher. She said, Well,

8:50

there's this company called

8:53

coach you and there's this

8:53

company called CTI coaches

8:56

Training Institute. They're the

8:56

ones I know. So I looked at them

9:01

both. One was live and had

9:01

sessions in London, the other

9:04

was all virtual. So I thought

9:04

I'll go for the live one. And

9:07

that was the extent of my

9:07

research. But I chose a good

9:10

one. I chose a good company. And

9:10

essentially I trained while I

9:16

was doing it. So I was coaching

9:16

and learning what I was doing

9:19

while I was training. So it

9:19

really was a career that came

9:23

and find me which I do think is

9:23

often a case with entrepreneurs.

9:28

It's often something you didn't

9:28

realize you were doing or you

9:33

thought it was your hobby or you

9:33

thought you did it to relax and

9:37

it can creep over you and

9:37

suddenly realize oh, people

9:40

might actually pay for this

9:40

people might actually value

9:43

this. So that was 20 years ago I

9:43

grew very I life coached really

9:48

for about a year and very

9:48

quickly got into leadership

9:51

coaching, which I love. I love

9:51

everything about leadership

9:56

coaching. I love my clients. I

9:56

love what I get to do it's such

10:00

a privilege to work with people

10:00

and you know I do the word

10:05

transformation comes up a lot in

10:05

my when I talk about my work

10:09

because that's that's the goal.

10:09

The goal is to not make it hard

10:13

work for somebody to create a

10:13

change. The goal is for them to

10:17

make it easy because the

10:17

Transform, they're transformed.

10:20

It's not a long arduous journey.

10:20

It's like I'm here and now I can

10:25

do it differently. I can see it

10:25

differently or I can behave it

10:27

differently. So the business has

10:27

gone up and down over the 20

10:32

years and up and down as an in

10:32

different directions. And here I

10:36

am today

10:38

Mmmm. I love

10:38

that you're talking about what

10:41

you are. What you found in your

10:41

clients is also the exact same

10:46

journey that you went through

10:46

like it was this long process of

10:49

transformation. For you, it

10:49

wasn't that you quit your job,

10:52

and you just knew exactly what

10:52

you're going to do next. And you

10:54

like when did it you it was a

10:54

process of transformation where

10:58

you quit the job. You thought

10:58

you knew what you were going to

11:01

do, then maybe not. So you like

11:01

started down the journey. And I

11:05

also really love that you found

11:05

everything you allowed

11:09

everything to find you, I guess

11:09

is what I'm trying to say it

11:12

wasn't this hard push, which

11:12

oftentimes entrepreneurs think

11:16

especially after they quit their

11:16

job, you know, I need to solve

11:19

the problems, you know, make

11:19

ends meet all of the things they

11:21

start pushing in, in specific

11:21

directions, when I do think

11:26

there is something necessary to

11:26

following a slower process and

11:32

letting the things come to you,

11:32

which is it sounds like exactly

11:35

what you did.

11:36

Mm hmm. I

11:36

think that's true. And I often

11:40

think when you, you don't know

11:40

where you're going, and then you

11:44

submit like, it's like a fault.

11:44

It's like there's fog in front

11:48

of you, you know, there's Land

11:48

Beyond the fog, you know,

11:50

there's something that you're

11:50

trying to get to, but there's

11:52

the fog in the way. And

11:52

sometimes it's in a moment, you

11:56

know, or it's six months. And

11:56

then a moment, literally is

12:00

other times it's plowing through

12:00

it, but you can suddenly see

12:04

what's beyond. And often find,

12:04

then you can look back and go,

12:09

Oh, of course, this was where

12:09

I'm I was coming, of course when

12:14

I look back. So when I look back

12:14

at what I was good at in

12:17

advertising, what made me

12:17

successful in advertising. I

12:20

wasn't particularly good at the

12:20

actual adverts of advertising or

12:24

in the craft, if you like I was

12:24

good motivating people and

12:27

persuading people and bringing

12:27

people on board and getting them

12:30

ready to do what they needed to

12:30

do. So and that's essentially

12:34

what I still do now, a little

12:34

bit more structure around it,

12:37

but same kind of thing.

12:39

Right? You just

12:39

have to wait for the light to be

12:42

shed on what's already there.

12:43

Yes,

12:44

right. I love

12:44

this. So I want to start moving

12:48

in the direction of talking

12:48

about leadership and support

12:51

because that's what it is that

12:51

we're here to talk about today.

12:54

And like I said earlier, I think

12:54

I mean, it comes so naturally to

12:59

you, whenever you're you.

12:59

Everyone watching this in the

13:02

clubhouse conversation sees how

13:02

animated Sally can get. whenever

13:08

she's talking about things that

13:08

she's feeling very excited

13:11

about. And anytime I ever hear

13:11

you talking about leadership,

13:16

and really adjusting and

13:16

accepting some mindsets around

13:20

how it is that we we show up for

13:20

ourselves in our businesses, and

13:25

our customers, our teams, all of

13:25

those things. That's where I see

13:28

you get the most animated and I

13:28

love it. So we want to head in

13:31

that direction. And I want to

13:31

talk first very, I guess

13:35

probably broadly around

13:35

leadership because they feel

13:38

like sometimes that can be a bit

13:38

of a buzzword, you know, like,

13:42

just be a leader get some

13:42

leadership training all these

13:44

things, it's kind of lost its

13:44

meaning or so I want to start

13:48

there. What does leadership

13:48

mean? And how do you find it

13:55

really fitting into sort of this

13:55

universe of the being boss? I

14:00

guess system of being?

14:04

I think it's a great question and preparing for this, you know, you told me you

14:06

were gonna ask me that. And I

14:09

thought, Oh, what is leadership?

14:09

My god, I spend my time doing

14:15

leadership talking leadership,

14:15

what actually do I mean by

14:19

leadership? So I'm going to

14:19

caveat that with this is what I

14:22

mean, by leadership, there's a

14:22

as many different definitions

14:25

that are out there, as there are

14:25

leaders, I should think what I

14:28

think leadership is, is being

14:28

able to influence people to work

14:35

or move in some way that

14:35

furthers your cause furthers the

14:41

progress towards your goal. So

14:41

if you if that's in business,

14:45

and you have employees, it's

14:45

it's having those employees feel

14:49

like they want to that they're

14:49

motivated to that they

14:52

understand why they're working

14:52

hard here, and why they want to

14:58

work hard and why not just about

14:58

the graph, the actual hard work,

15:01

but the way in which they work

15:01

that there's an internal

15:04

motivation to work, not just

15:04

because I get paid in my hours a

15:07

nine to fix or whatever. So,

15:07

leadership is about having the

15:12

people go with you. And I

15:12

sometimes things it's easier to

15:15

explain by setting it apart from

15:15

managing, because managing being

15:19

a manager is a really important

15:19

job. And I think in a being boss

15:24

context, probably most of us

15:24

small business owners are both

15:28

managers and leaders, and

15:28

they're both valid roles, but

15:33

they're different. So a manager

15:33

is responsible for the outputs

15:38

in a way It's managed for so in

15:38

your business, Emily, it's

15:42

Almanac, it's getting the

15:42

candles to look good to work,

15:47

you know, to be a good quality

15:47

to be produced on the right

15:50

budget on time shipped

15:50

appropriately to the client to

15:54

the customer. And looking pretty

15:54

and making them feel good when

15:58

they get it that's managing that

15:58

process, managing the budgets,

16:02

keeping an eye on your fingers,

16:02

all of that is managing,

16:06

leading, is how you influence

16:06

people. So leading is making the

16:11

person who's rapping or making

16:11

the candles feel excited by or

16:16

to feel motivated by or part of

16:16

the vision or devoted to you or

16:21

devoted so the the customer,

16:21

there's something more integral

16:25

to the way that they're

16:25

producing it. And so it's almost

16:28

like a manager is responsible

16:28

for the product or service

16:31

output and leader is responsible

16:31

for the human input is how does

16:36

that human being feel while

16:36

about working here? Or about

16:41

making your product or providing

16:41

your service?

16:44

And why is that

16:44

important? I mean, I mean, we

16:46

get it, but like from you, why

16:46

is it important for you to not

16:51

only manage, but to inspire and

16:51

lead.

16:59

Because you

16:59

get more of a person you get

17:04

rather than doing a good the

17:04

right job, to the right standard

17:11

that has been set for me, or

17:11

that is on the wall and that the

17:15

or written down in the service

17:15

book or whatever, rather than

17:17

doing a good right job. You get

17:17

people doing their best, you get

17:24

people doing that better, even

17:24

better for you, they're better

17:28

or best. You get people wanting

17:28

to think outside the box, you

17:32

get people coming to you going,

17:32

you know, on the wall that says

17:35

we do 123? Well, I've been

17:35

thinking that if we did three to

17:41

one, it would save us money,

17:41

time and space. So it actually

17:45

gets people feeling I'm part of

17:45

this business, I'm not just here

17:49

for the money. I'm here because

17:49

I'm part of this business. And

17:53

if I can help it succeed, I will

17:53

get some fulfillment and

17:57

motivation from that as well.

17:57

The other side of of influencing

18:01

is making people feel like

18:01

they're growing, of leadership.

18:04

So it's constantly, you want to

18:04

constantly develop your

18:06

business. So you want to

18:06

constantly grow your team. So

18:09

your team needs to know that

18:09

there's a future here, that

18:13

they're going to learn and grow

18:13

that or they're going there's

18:16

some sort of progression for

18:16

them, or some sort of training

18:21

or promise of ferment, which

18:21

makes people feel more

18:27

emotionally attached to the

18:27

business. Leadership, of course

18:32

extends to clients as well to

18:32

your clients and customers.

18:36

Indeed, it was

18:36

what you're cultivating here is

18:41

loyalty, right. And we all know

18:41

that selling a customer who's

18:45

already bought from you is

18:45

significantly easier than

18:49

selling the one who has an

18:49

already having employees that

18:52

are loyal to you, or results in

18:52

less turnover of employees like

18:58

they're going to stay on, they're going to become more integral for your business,

19:00

you're going to spend less time

19:02

refilling roles that you've just

19:02

refilled all of these things,

19:06

there really does wrap up a

19:06

whole lot of very important

19:10

results from not just managing,

19:10

but leading and in the context

19:15

of you know, the community this

19:15

month and the things that we've

19:17

been talking about, we've been

19:17

talking about support, and how

19:20

it is that we give support, but

19:20

also how it is that we get

19:24

support. And we've been focusing

19:24

a lot on, on the getting of

19:27

support. How it is that we are

19:27

putting people in our lives in

19:32

our businesses, because they

19:32

will say to all of this that

19:34

we're talking about also works

19:34

for your life to like is your

19:39

life partner on board for that

19:39

home renovation. If you're the

19:43

one holding the vision, you need

19:43

to lead everyone towards that

19:46

vision. And the same thing with

19:46

your kids as you're thinking

19:48

about that. And thinking about

19:48

my preteen, like how can we

19:51

really get her to buy in on the dishes?

19:54

Yeah, but it

19:54

is funny when I was thinking

19:56

about that as well. And it's

19:56

like when your child's younger

19:59

and you need them to eat their

19:59

vegetables, you know you need

20:01

them. We don't just need them

20:01

for you. You want them to enjoy

20:04

and like their vegetables. You

20:04

know you have as a parent of a

20:07

young child the ability to force

20:07

them to eat their vegetables, or

20:10

pay them to eat their vegetables

20:10

or say Eat your vegetables or

20:14

there's no TV. And yet what we

20:14

seek to do is kind of explain

20:21

why eating vegetables is good.

20:21

So there are fat lettered you'll

20:23

be able to run faster, your legs

20:23

will grow longer, your muscles

20:26

will be stronger if you eat your

20:26

vegetables, you know, it's it's

20:29

giving them their own motivation

20:29

for eating vegetables rather

20:34

than just because you said so.

20:35

Right. It's

20:35

definitely giving context and

20:38

actually Think of funny thing

20:38

here. And this ties back to

20:41

everything we do here at being

20:41

boss. It requires a

20:45

conversation, like there's a

20:45

difference between giving an

20:49

order and giving context. So

20:49

saying I need you to, you know,

20:53

so it Almanac is about, there's

20:53

a difference between getting

20:58

someone to package an order and

20:58

saying, This is how I want you

21:01

to prep this box, and not giving

21:01

any contacts and they're gonna

21:05

be like, well, I don't want to

21:05

put the sticker on that way, or

21:07

I don't want to use two pieces

21:07

of, of tissue paper or whatever,

21:11

as opposed to walking them

21:11

through what happens. And why it

21:15

is that we have these protocols

21:15

so that everything does arrive

21:18

very safely. And I give that

21:18

example, because that's

21:21

literally been something we've

21:21

had to do, we are very

21:23

particular about how it is that

21:23

we package our boxes, both for

21:27

the safety of the products

21:27

inside, but also for the

21:30

experience that the customer

21:30

gets whenever they receive the

21:33

package. Without that context.

21:36

They don't have any real reason

21:36

to follow that other than Oh,

21:41

I've been given this

21:41

instruction. But we don't have

21:45

as many workers in the workplace

21:45

these days, I don't think we're

21:48

just order takers. People want

21:48

to know why it is that they are

21:52

doing something, how it affects

21:52

the bottom line. And all of that

21:56

requires more conversation,

21:56

which requires a bit more

22:00

connection, which there is the

22:00

difference between a leader and

22:04

a manager? Yes,

22:06

that is the difference. And you've also highlighted that upfront

22:08

leadership can take more time

22:13

than managing somebody. So you

22:13

can just tell somebody what to

22:16

do. You could even type it up

22:16

and hand a sheet to somebody

22:19

when they walk in. So telling

22:19

somebody what to do is quicker.

22:24

But as you said, the leadership

22:24

part, the involvement, then

22:27

making them feel part of the

22:27

process and understanding the

22:29

process might take longer on

22:29

that first morning. But you reap

22:34

the rewards later down the line

22:34

where they are sticking to the

22:38

process because they understand

22:38

why or they're more involved in

22:40

it, or they're looking to improve it or they're coming back to you and saying Actually,

22:42

you know what, I've noticed the

22:45

stickers peel off if we do them

22:45

this way. So why don't we do

22:47

them that way. So leadership is

22:47

an upfront investment quite

22:51

often, but it's for the reward

22:51

further down the line.

22:56

Hmm, I need to

22:56

walk my kid back through filling

22:59

up the dishwasher.

23:03

Yeah, and why

23:03

and why a dishwasher works and

23:07

why this is

23:07

important and how it how it

23:09

relates to, you know, the

23:09

livelihood of our family, like

23:13

if you're doing dishes or not

23:13

doing dishes, and then I can go

23:16

do this thing so that we can go

23:16

on vacation except maybe not

23:19

vacation that may be a very bad example.

23:21

But you know,

23:21

I that is a good example related

23:24

fair dishwasher. Thing is

23:24

because it brings in emotions.

23:27

And that's where leadership

23:27

leadership is about influencing

23:30

how people feel about things. So

23:30

if you tell your daughter to

23:34

load or empty the dishwasher, of

23:34

course she doesn't want it's a

23:36

boring, it's a bad job. Nobody

23:36

wants to do the dishwasher. But

23:42

if you explain to her how you

23:42

feel, if you have to do it all

23:46

the time, or you have to

23:46

indicate maybe just talking

23:49

about my son's here, but how I

23:49

have to go to the dishwasher and

23:51

restock it after they've put

23:51

their things that plates in

23:55

because otherwise nothing will

23:55

come out clean. If I just shout

23:59

at them and say if it didn't,

23:59

but if I explain how that makes

24:03

me feel they can't, that you've

24:03

got a different buy in. And

24:10

people are more likely and

24:10

that's leadership's are taking

24:12

it to, to working with your team

24:12

or people, your suppliers or

24:17

your customers, if you can

24:17

understand how they feel, and

24:22

how you want them to feel and

24:22

seek to influence that then

24:26

you're becoming more and more

24:26

influential and more and more of

24:30

a leader.

24:32

And in that

24:32

case, you also get more and more

24:34

support.

24:35

Yes, right.

24:36

So the people

24:36

who are in your life or in your

24:39

business, your vendors, your

24:39

customers, your team, your kids,

24:42

whoever it is, with that more

24:42

buy in, you are getting more

24:49

support. And you're also I think

24:49

in that giving more support

24:53

people want purpose, and what it

24:53

is that they're doing. They want

24:56

to know why they want to know

24:56

that it has an impact. And we're

24:59

all here because we want to

24:59

impact others you want to

25:04

influence others, right? Not

25:04

just bosses want that. Right?

25:08

Your team wants that your kids

25:08

want that your husband wants

25:11

that, like everyone wants that.

25:11

So by doing these things, you

25:16

are both supporting and getting

25:16

support in a way that you could

25:20

not otherwise. I just want to

25:20

take a minute to shout out to

25:27

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25:27

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25:31

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that's gussto.com slash being

25:58

boss. Okay with that, I want to

26:08

go into some foundational

26:08

elements of effective

26:14

leadership. So I mentioned

26:14

earlier that you're really great

26:17

with just like giving us some

26:17

quick quips, who's a good

26:20

foundations, all of these

26:20

things. So I would love to hear

26:23

from you. What are some of those

26:23

key elements that we need to

26:28

keep in mind to elevate our

26:28

roles and our businesses or

26:32

lives or whatever, from manager

26:32

or task giver, or you know, or

26:36

even just boss and into that

26:36

leader space.

26:44

And the word

26:44

you use that which is a great

26:46

one in leadership is elevate. So

26:46

I think the thing to remember

26:50

about leadership is it's it's

26:50

not like a promotion, you don't

26:54

get promoted to leader and there

26:54

you are, there you sit.

26:57

Leadership is a life long

26:57

journey. It's it's constant

27:03

work. It's, you know, personal

27:03

development, professional

27:06

development and developing your

27:06

leadership. And your ability

27:12

with a leader is ongoing, so

27:12

that for me, there's, there's

27:16

two key skills, and four key

27:16

actions for being a leader, the

27:21

two key skills are listening,

27:21

and being curious. And really

27:27

listening, and is listening to

27:27

learn, rather than listening to

27:33

wait till it's your turn to say

27:33

your thing. You know, it's

27:36

really listening. It's, it's

27:36

putting the spotlight on the

27:40

other person. And your whole job

27:40

is to learn what what am I

27:46

hearing with my ears from this

27:46

person, but you listen with all

27:49

your senses, you listen with

27:49

your eyes, you listen with your

27:53

skin, you know, you get

27:53

goosebumps, sometimes when

27:56

you're really listening to somebody or you really connect with something, you're listening

27:58

with your emotions, you know, we

28:00

catch emotions from somebody. So

28:00

if you're really listening to

28:03

somebody, and they're feeling

28:03

sad, or related or fearful, you

28:08

can learn to feel that inside

28:08

you. And all that information

28:13

that you're taking on board

28:13

allows you to understand that

28:17

person better. So listening is

28:17

if if you know if anyone says to

28:23

me, what's the one thing you

28:23

must do as a leader? If it's if

28:26

it really is down to one thing,

28:26

it's learned to be the most

28:30

exquisite listener? And, and,

28:30

and that really does go to that

28:34

intuition. I know you love

28:34

intuitive things, Emily, but you

28:39

know, Liz, you know how there

28:39

are times when you're talking to

28:41

somebody and you just know

28:41

something? And you don't know,

28:43

you haven't been told it.

28:43

There's no factual evidence, but

28:46

you just know something about

28:46

that. And leadership as well is

28:49

leaning into that and allowing

28:49

yourself to see if that

28:54

intuition is right, being quite

28:54

comfortable with it being wrong,

28:58

but actually asking, you know,

28:58

I'm sensing I'm wondering, I've

29:02

got an idea. Would you like

29:02

this, so it's sounding it out.

29:06

And that's bringing me to the

29:06

next crucial skill, which is

29:09

curiosity. So cute. great

29:09

leaders are curious, great

29:13

leaders are problem solvers,

29:13

just like entrepreneurs, problem

29:17

solvers. puzzlers really trying

29:17

to work my way through this to

29:22

the most simple solution, or the

29:22

most elegant solution, or the

29:26

most financially sensible

29:26

solution or whatever it may be.

29:30

But it's curiosity and ongoing

29:30

curiosity. So that's the loop of

29:34

listening and learning and

29:34

listening and learning and

29:37

listening and learning.

29:39

I find it so

29:39

intriguing that you're talking

29:41

about, especially in the

29:41

listening piece, this idea that

29:45

you don't just listen with your

29:45

ears, right. And you brought up

29:48

intuition, because literally, as

29:48

you're saying that I was

29:51

thinking like you are actually

29:51

talking about sort of digesting

29:56

information for the purpose of

29:56

using your intuition. Mm hmm.

30:00

Right, like it is engaging with

30:00

all of the senses, which does

30:04

require amazing attention. So

30:04

you can't be a leader and like,

30:09

also looking at your phone while

30:09

someone's talking. Right? Or you

30:13

can't be a leader and be

30:13

thinking about your to do list

30:16

all day. Like you really have to

30:16

engage everything for the

30:20

purpose of listening and feeling

30:20

and sensing everything in that

30:25

way. So that the one of the

30:25

things that I love about really

30:28

bringing intuition into so much

30:28

of it is that we do is because I

30:34

do believe that your body and

30:34

mind all of the things has the

30:38

ability To pick up on so many

30:38

signs and signals that your

30:42

conscious brain cannot be aware

30:42

of all of the things, right. And

30:47

so that distillation of all of

30:47

that information is the

30:51

intuition. I don't think it is

30:51

so much like, I don't think the

30:54

planets are telling me what to

30:54

do. or anything like that. I

30:59

think I'm instead picking on

30:59

picking up on so much

31:03

information. And then that gut

31:03

feeling that bit of intuition is

31:08

my ability to distill all of

31:08

that into something. So I

31:13

appreciate you talking about

31:13

that in terms of listening,

31:15

because I think you're right. And I've never thought about that, like, full sensory

31:17

listening before

31:21

little sensors

31:21

and listening with your wisdom

31:23

and your experience, as well.

31:23

And the thing I was thinking

31:27

about intuition is your

31:27

intuition is never wrong. You

31:31

just sometimes interpreted

31:31

incorrectly.

31:35

Yes, and sometimes it needs you to learn something first. Right? A lot of

31:37

people are like, Oh, my

31:39

intuition was wrong. I ended up

31:39

like, doing that thing. And it

31:43

was horrible. Well, like, there

31:43

was a lesson there for you to

31:46

learn that you needed to learn

31:46

first, and now you can go do the

31:50

thing. Like I don't think that

31:50

your intuition is wrong, is

31:53

incorrect, either. I think it's

31:53

I think it's always right one

31:56

way or the other.

31:57

And taking the

31:57

lessening thing back to the

32:00

support thing. Often, we're

32:00

really keen to support somebody,

32:06

we're really keen to offer our

32:06

support to an employee or a

32:09

customer or a friend or a child

32:09

or whatever. And we've decided

32:13

what support they lead, we've

32:13

decided what trouble they're in.

32:16

And we've decided what we're

32:16

going to do to support that

32:19

person and our intentions are so

32:19

good. And sometimes we can

32:27

confuse or divert people from

32:27

path. And sometimes we can do

32:32

damage or just annoy by doing

32:32

that. So listening is really

32:37

good there as well. It's, I

32:37

sense, or I see that you need

32:41

some support, I'd like to

32:41

provide it. What do you need?

32:45

Yeah. Well,

32:46

I also love that

32:46

you're saying that everyone

32:49

wants to support but also no one

32:49

wants to listen. Right?

32:54

Especially that like full

32:54

sensory, listen, like we're all

32:58

way too distracted. Like we all

32:58

want to support. Of course, we

33:01

want to support our teams. Of course, we want to support our customers, of course, they want

33:03

to support, you know, our

33:05

family, all of those things. But

33:05

when is the last time you sat

33:07

down and listened, like really

33:07

full body listened, because that

33:12

is step number one. So if you

33:12

feel like you need to support

33:15

people that you want to support

33:15

people, check yourself and make

33:18

sure you're actually taking the steps.

33:21

And that they

33:21

do want the support and and what

33:24

they need, you know, ask them

33:24

and I think it's important to

33:27

say that a leader doesn't have

33:27

to spend their entire day

33:30

listening and supporting, you

33:30

know, there are times when you

33:33

have to do stuff, right stuff.

33:33

But it's, it's knowing which

33:37

mode you're in. And if you've

33:37

decided, right, it's Emily, me I

33:42

need I want to give me some

33:42

attention today. So I'm gonna

33:45

switch my phone off, turn my

33:45

computer off, move away get

33:51

somewhere maybe we'll get a

33:51

coffee and maybe we'll change

33:54

our location. A great place for

33:54

talking so often in a business

33:58

context, we sit across the table

33:58

with work stuff in between us.

34:03

And we're immediately sort of

34:03

confront confronting each other

34:08

or or there's something or

34:08

there's the problem is in

34:11

between us and we're tussling

34:11

over it or whatever it might be.

34:14

And the best way to listen to

34:14

somebody Have you ever noticed

34:17

I'm sure you've noticed this

34:17

with your daughter Emily is in

34:20

the car when they're sitting

34:20

next to you or walking so going

34:25

for a walk if you really needed

34:25

a deep conversation or a deep

34:28

listen with somebody go for a

34:28

walk. That didn't really helps.

34:33

I need to do more of that you're

34:34

right. Actually

34:34

I will say do you even run the

34:37

parenting they feel like most of

34:37

our parenting does happen on

34:40

walls. Right like some of those

34:40

like really big conversation

34:43

we're talking about things or

34:43

leggings out it definitely is

34:46

our daily walks Ooh, you're

34:46

right about that.

34:49

Well I sort of

34:49

change the eye contact is really

34:52

important for listening but

34:52

actually when we're having a new

34:55

thought we have to look up and

34:55

if I'm in with eye contact with

35:00

you all the time I'm actually my

35:00

brain cannot have new thoughts

35:05

it needs to be able to look at

35:05

that's where my new ideas

35:08

section is. And I have to be

35:08

able to look away from you and

35:11

look up to access my idea

35:11

section.

35:14

Oh my god you just blew my mind and I think not only my mind there's gavia

35:16

see your whoa comment over there

35:20

in the chat for sure you are

35:20

completely right. And you're not

35:25

texting if you're walking I

35:25

can't text and what it's like to

35:28

get hit by a car. Right? You're

35:28

not like sitting there on the on

35:32

your laptop. You're not writing

35:32

notes like you are just

35:35

listening. Oh, you're totally

35:35

right. So I want to move on to

35:38

this. This cute espies and then

35:38

we can move past skills. But

35:42

when it comes to curiosity, what

35:42

does that look like? Do you have

35:46

any like thoughts or tips on

35:46

like listening, full body

35:50

listened to everything but

35:50

curiosity? How does someone,

35:55

embrace and show that?

36:00

Be Dumb? So

36:00

when you're being curious, the

36:03

dumb questions are the best

36:03

ones. So I have worked with lots

36:09

of people in lots of businesses

36:09

over the years, and I start them

36:12

on curiosity, and they go, I can

36:12

hear them, I put them in

36:15

partners, and they weren't, you

36:15

know, they're practicing being

36:17

curious with each other. And I

36:17

hear something but don't you

36:20

think it would be a good idea?

36:20

If you were to could just call

36:24

them up and confront them with

36:24

it? Question mark? So it's a

36:28

question. It's a it's a, this is

36:28

what you should do, disguised as

36:33

a question. And I'm telling you

36:33

how clever I am. Or I'm and I

36:37

may even be really genuinely

36:37

trying to serve you and help you

36:40

by giving you an idea. Whereas

36:40

in this context, curiosity is

36:45

assuming they're the expert, and

36:45

you know, nothing. And so the

36:50

questions to ask open questions,

36:50

not closed questions. So closed

36:56

questions are the questions that

36:56

end and yes or no, they're sort

36:58

of dead ends in the Curiosity

36:58

world. Do you like French fries?

37:05

Yes. What do you like about

37:05

french fries? Oh, well, I love I

37:10

love the hot sensation. And it

37:10

leads you down a different path.

37:13

So always ask open questions.

37:13

That not closed questions, and

37:18

the best dumb open questions

37:18

begin with the worst. So what

37:24

were half what how doesn't quite

37:24

fit my rule? How? And when? So

37:30

what where, how and when? So

37:30

what do you like about french

37:34

fries? When do you most love

37:34

eating french fries? How do you

37:38

like to eat french fries?

37:38

They're all and what? You're

37:41

getting the answer? Yes, you'll

37:41

find out a bit about french

37:43

fries eating. But you'll find

37:43

out they love to eat them on

37:47

holiday when they're with family

37:47

and friends. It's the only time

37:50

they let themselves eat french

37:50

fries. So it's an indulgence. I

37:52

didn't you'll find out more

37:52

about the nature of that person.

37:57

The one question that that I

37:57

think kills curiosity, it well

38:02

doesn't kill it. But if it

38:02

follows my rules, but I rule it

38:04

out is why why do you like

38:04

French? Why do you eat french

38:08

fries? Why has a little bit of

38:08

defend yourself? in it? It has a

38:12

you have to explain yourself

38:12

with why it sounds like I've got

38:16

an opinion. It does. It's not a

38:16

rule. But I tend to avoid why

38:21

people tend to feel they have to

38:21

defend themselves with a why. So

38:24

curiosity, open questions that

38:24

that explore and then just

38:29

follow your nose and then ask

38:29

more. Just and and what you like

38:32

about that, and what you like

38:32

about that, like really dumb

38:36

questions, and you get much more

38:36

information.

38:41

I often find in

38:41

my experience, whenever,

38:44

whenever, really all the time,

38:44

this is just kind of me as I

38:49

like, for other people. Whenever

38:49

you're workshopping things, or

38:53

whenever there is a team member

38:53

or maybe a partner. Partners

38:59

something No, no do anything

38:59

specific here. But um, I always

39:05

find it's significantly more

39:05

helpful. If things are not going

39:08

down the right path. Let's say

39:08

let's say you've given someone a

39:11

problem to solve, and they're

39:11

not like, there's not really the

39:15

solution. I often find that

39:15

telling someone they're wrong is

39:21

not going to work. Right,

39:21

especially the kinds of people

39:24

that we like to be around and

39:24

work with they, I find that

39:28

people like to come up with

39:28

these things on their own,

39:30

right, they like to find

39:30

themselves in this place. And I

39:34

think you're at this lesson of

39:34

curiosity, even if you know that

39:36

something someone has done is

39:36

incorrect or not the best way to

39:39

do it, following this line of

39:39

questioning out of curiosity can

39:44

help them get to the place where

39:44

they're seeing the problem with

39:48

their solution, or they're

39:48

seeing a better solution to the

39:51

problem or whatever it may be.

39:51

So that you're helping you can

39:55

help people through their own

39:55

process through this, like open

39:59

ended questions and like, Well,

39:59

tell me how you did that. And

40:03

what do you think what happened

40:03

if we were to try this other

40:07

thing and like, you could throw

40:07

in some things? Me Maybe I'm

40:11

really literally just but I do

40:11

this?

40:14

In a nutshell,

40:14

that's coaching, that is

40:16

coaching. Coaching is helping

40:16

somebody else find the solution

40:21

to their challenge or problem or

40:21

choice. Yeah.

40:24

And it works. So

40:24

I find it works and it builds.

40:28

It builds this openness for you

40:28

know, presented, actually in the

40:33

C suite and all of my

40:33

masterminding, we do this thing

40:35

that we just call shady ideas,

40:35

right where and we've talked

40:38

about on the podcast Kathleen

40:38

and I started doing this years

40:41

ago with this idea of you. You

40:41

just start having these

40:45

conversations where you're just

40:45

saying things, you're just

40:47

presenting problems. And I feel

40:47

like this curiosity piece and

40:50

what I'm talking about of like

40:50

getting people to their own

40:52

solutions really opens up to the

40:52

honesty that is real in not

40:59

every solution is going to be

40:59

the best, everything can kind of

41:02

be improved, and people aren't

41:02

defensive. whenever it comes to

41:06

workshopping new ideas, whatever

41:06

it may be. I think there's

41:08

something very important, too,

41:08

especially in this this

41:12

conversation of leadership and

41:12

thinking about how this

41:14

curiosity can help lead people

41:14

to solutions, without you giving

41:18

them the solution. So without

41:18

you telling them that the

41:20

solution that came up was

41:20

incorrect, more of let's have a

41:24

nice question oriented

41:24

conversation that can lead you

41:27

to a better solution. I think

41:27

that's also a very important

41:30

skill to have. Especially when

41:30

you're like me, and you just I

41:34

don't like telling other people they're wrong, and rather than prove it to themselves,

41:41

but I tell

41:41

you, what, usually nobody's

41:45

completely wrong. Hmm. So it's

41:45

about holding them and finding

41:50

which they did I go wrong, or

41:50

which is the right stuff that I

41:54

need to do again, but which

41:54

point in the path did I take the

41:58

wrong turn? Oh, I see. Now it

41:58

was there, if I you know, so

42:01

it's helping them do that. And

42:01

it's a it's an very, so I when

42:05

you're dealing with your kids,

42:05

one's partner, they help

42:10

employees or that people come to

42:10

you with a problem, you know,

42:14

when you're the boss, leader,

42:14

manager, whatever, when you're

42:18

in a position of authority,

42:18

people come to you with a

42:21

problem. And I always encourage

42:21

people to see the problem as a

42:24

beach ball. Remember those nice

42:24

1970s sort of inflating or maybe

42:29

showing my age here, but

42:29

inflatable beach balls, they're

42:32

really light, and they're really

42:32

easy to carry. And every problem

42:36

that somebody comes to you with,

42:36

you see it as a beach ball, and

42:39

your job is to not touch the

42:39

beach ball, is to not have it go

42:43

in. And so they'll come in and they go, I've got a real problem. I don't know how to do

42:44

this, and they start handing

42:46

you, the beach ball. And your

42:46

job as a leader and a coaching

42:50

leader, as you've just

42:50

described, is to have them leave

42:55

your office or your desk or your

42:55

telephone, knowing what they're

42:59

going to do without you touching

42:59

that beach ball wants. Because

43:05

if you constantly provide

43:05

solutions to the problem, you

43:09

will end up with a desk full of

43:09

beach balls that you will never

43:12

get out from under and you are

43:12

training your staff, or your

43:15

team or your kids to come to you

43:15

every time they've got a

43:19

problem. And if you instead

43:19

train them to be resourceful,

43:24

and resilient and solve their

43:24

own problems, you will get less

43:27

and less people coming to you

43:27

with their rituals.

43:32

Every boss was

43:32

saying this to rewind, and

43:35

listen to that, again. Play

43:35

themselves. This is like this is

43:41

the plague of the boss for sure,

43:41

is growing a team and in the

43:47

find themselves in constant

43:47

review mode, right or problem

43:50

solving mode for those people.

43:50

So I think you just gave us a

43:54

wonderful analogy for that.

43:54

Okay, so listening and

43:58

curiosity, those are the two

43:58

skills, what do you have for us

44:01

beyond that.

44:04

So to really

44:04

influence somebody to motivate

44:08

somebody to get them to do what

44:08

you need to do not in a

44:12

Machiavellian way, just because

44:12

they want to because they bought

44:15

into it. There's four thing you

44:15

have to know yourself first. So

44:19

you have to really look down

44:19

inside yourself and work out why

44:23

you're doing this. What you do

44:23

want, what what is this all for?

44:28

What What do you need that

44:28

person to do? Well, where are

44:31

you today? And where are you

44:31

going with this? And I think you

44:35

did this beautifully. Emily in

44:35

the CEO daycare. I was looking

44:39

at that again the other day. And

44:39

you know, you start that with a

44:43

look inside yourself. So yeah,

44:43

I've got it sitting here next to

44:46

me. So I could remember, you

44:46

know, you start with the money

44:48

Mojo, which is what is my

44:48

relationship with me? That's got

44:52

nothing It seems to do with a

44:52

building a business. I mean,

44:55

what what's that got to do with

44:55

business? But actually, it's

44:58

looking inside yourself? What's

44:58

my relationship with money? What

45:01

do I fit? What do I want it for?

45:01

What was it all about? You do

45:04

values you do where you are in

45:04

the change that you get

45:07

everybody centered and clear

45:07

with who they are? before they

45:12

get into so what do I want and

45:12

the next bit is so your

45:15

intention settings and so on. So

45:15

who am I get? Who do I need to

45:19

be if I want to create this

45:19

business. And so, and I love the

45:27

way you do intentions and I love

45:27

the way you do the monthly and

45:31

I'm probably gonna steal that

45:31

from you in my coaching. You may

45:34

thank you because it's it's a

45:34

way of saying that's me. My mind

45:39

that's in my mind if I want to.

45:39

So let's say for example, I'm a

45:43

procrastinator, if I'm a

45:43

procrastinator, I, but I've got

45:46

this brilliant idea that I know

45:46

is going to happen, I'm going to

45:49

set the intention that I'll just

45:49

do the first thing this month.

45:53

So I'll just do the first thing,

45:53

and then I'll do the next thing.

45:56

And I am being realistic with

45:56

myself about who I am, what I'm

46:01

good at what I'm not so good at

46:01

what I want to achieve or not.

46:03

And then I'm taking charge of

46:03

myself. So when managing myself,

46:07

I'm taking responsibility for

46:07

myself. And so those the first

46:10

two stages of being a powerful

46:10

leader is to understand

46:14

yourself, and to be able to

46:14

manage yourself to almost

46:19

regulate yourself doesn't mean

46:19

not be your full self, but it

46:23

means just not off the hook. And

46:23

I often have people come to me

46:27

sort of saying, Oh, well, that's

46:27

just me, you know, I'm late for

46:30

everything. That's just me, as

46:30

I've always been like that.

46:32

That's just the way I am. And

46:32

it's like, well, no, there isn't

46:36

a gene for Lego, you know, you

46:36

you didn't get conceived will

46:41

write late on this one. There we

46:41

are. You know, it's it's not

46:45

like that. You've got into a

46:45

habit, maybe a lifetime habit.

46:50

But you've got into a habit of

46:50

lateness. And so here's the

46:56

phrase that I think one of the

46:56

most liberating phrases is until

47:00

now. Until now, I've been

47:00

somebody who was late. Until

47:04

now, I've been somebody who put

47:04

off the important things. Until

47:08

now I shied away from difficult

47:08

conversations. Until now, I

47:12

didn't give my full attention to

47:12

people when I was listening to

47:15

them until now. Because what

47:15

that does is it puts it in the

47:19

past, but maybe just only a

47:19

second ago over your shoulder.

47:23

But it's until now I was that

47:23

person, which suddenly liberates

47:27

you to say, Hmm, so from now on,

47:27

I'm going to try being five

47:32

minutes early. Or I'm going to

47:32

try putting my phone down. When

47:35

somebody comes to talk to me,

47:35

I'm going to try. So until now

47:39

is a great way. Instead of

47:39

saying oh, I've always been like

47:42

that. It's well until now I've

47:42

been like that.

47:47

You can borrow?

47:47

intention setting I'm borrowing

47:50

until now. I would match to is

47:50

also you pulled that on me

47:56

recently. Did I do you did

47:56

several weeks ago I'm recalling.

48:03

And it was the most liberating

48:03

thing for you to I don't even

48:06

remember what the context was.

48:06

We were talking about something.

48:09

And you were like, what have you

48:09

just said until now? And I was

48:12

like, Oh my god, like the weight

48:12

fell off.

48:15

And it doesn't

48:17

ruin statement.

48:17

the truest statement is just

48:19

simply adding that sort of this

48:19

is not an X and can you eight is

48:24

it annex ng that will just say

48:24

adding adding that to the

48:27

beginning of your sentences. It

48:27

does give you so much more

48:31

potential and opportunity for

48:31

what comes next. Yeah, I also

48:35

want to know that what you're

48:35

talking about here, and this

48:38

like knowing who you are, and

48:38

managing yourself is very much

48:41

so at the core of being boss.

48:41

And it's funny too, because we

48:45

were actually working on some

48:45

some updated values for being

48:50

Boston the past couple of

48:50

months. And I had the entire

48:54

team working on this. And Cory

48:54

actually one of the ones that he

48:57

did, he circled leadership and I

48:57

thought we are not a leadership

49:02

brand. Or apparently so because

49:02

what you what you just what you

49:07

just said it, I think perfectly

49:07

aligns with one of those core

49:11

sort of mantras of being boss

49:11

and being bosses owning who you

49:14

are knowing what you want and

49:14

actually making it happen.

49:17

Right, you cannot own who you

49:17

are, and know what you want, if

49:21

you don't know who you are,

49:21

right? period, and you can't

49:24

make it happen if you are not

49:24

managing yourself. So I think

49:30

you just put me in my place when

49:30

it comes to being boss and

49:32

leadership. I appreciate that.

49:37

I see you as I

49:37

see this whole community as

49:39

leadership, you know, it is

49:39

about standing up for what you

49:43

are willing and yearning to

49:43

create in this world. Hmm, and

49:48

getting on with it,

49:49

and getting on

49:49

with it right and making no

49:51

excuses and willfully putting

49:51

anything that you do not want to

49:57

take with you behind you.

49:59

Yeah. And

49:59

that's that's why that's a

50:02

really great point because so

50:02

often what got you to this

50:07

point, so what got you to being

50:07

able to launch your own business

50:10

or got you to the point of being

50:10

able to bring on a team member,

50:12

your first team member or a

50:12

sales person or whatever it

50:15

might be the behaviors or the

50:15

the leadership that got you to

50:21

this point might not be what

50:21

moves you forward. So the

50:25

behavior the habits, the way of

50:25

operating that have made you

50:29

successful till now might slow

50:29

you down might even sabotage you

50:34

achieving it. So which is why

50:34

this constantly learning about

50:39

yourself, and reinventing

50:39

yourself or nudging evolving

50:44

yourself forwards, you've got to

50:44

do that because the person that

50:47

won the deal last week might not

50:47

be the one that one wins next

50:51

week steal that's twice the size

50:51

or with a slightly different

50:55

target audience got to keep

50:55

evolving, for sure, which takes

50:59

it to the foot. So the reason

50:59

for doing it the other reason

51:02

for doing this learning about

51:02

yourself, and learning to

51:06

regulate and manage yourself

51:06

that which part of which which

51:09

you use put into the world today

51:09

is because as we said at the

51:13

beginning, leadership is about

51:13

influencing others. So the three

51:17

and four, if you like, is

51:17

learning other people noticing

51:23

other people, which is that the

51:23

listening and curiosity,

51:25

listening and curious about

51:25

yourself and listening, curious

51:28

about other people. So standing

51:28

into somebody else's shoes, we

51:31

are so guilty as humans with the

51:31

best of intentions, that when

51:35

somebody looks like they need

51:35

motivating, we will say the

51:37

things that would motivate us.

51:37

So I know if I were in your

51:41

position, if I were in your

51:41

position, I would want somebody

51:44

to say this to me. So I'm gonna

51:44

say it to you. So for example,

51:48

expertise, some people are

51:48

really motivated by being a

51:51

specialist and really expert and

51:51

highly thought of in something.

51:55

And but if you've got somebody

51:55

who's more of a generalist who

51:59

wants to have a position that

51:59

oversees all sorts of areas and

52:03

wants to sort of be more of a

52:03

big picture role, encouraging

52:08

that person to become a sport,

52:08

you should go to training course

52:11

you should go on a training

52:11

course and really get deep into

52:14

this. Because you think and

52:14

you're hearing yourself and go,

52:17

Oh, yes, that'd be great. That's

52:17

what I do. But you've got to

52:20

then look at the impact you're

52:20

having get curious, this, this

52:23

doesn't seem to be working, then

52:23

they're not motivated. And

52:26

actually, what I know about this

52:26

person is this. So you're

52:29

constantly listening and being

52:29

curious about what what

52:33

information you're receiving,

52:33

and what that's telling you and

52:37

you put something back in and

52:37

how does that land? Oh, that's

52:40

the lights going out of their

52:40

eyes with that. So let me even

52:44

be honest about it and go, Well,

52:44

I can see that I really do

52:46

motivated you with that advice.

52:46

What do you need? To go back to

52:50

the dumb question? curiosity?

52:50

What do you need? Okay,

52:56

what's number four?

52:59

I shouldn't

52:59

get rolled on before, did you? I

53:01

was just thinking, I

53:01

accidentally wrote number. Yeah,

53:07

number one is self awareness.

53:07

Yeah, right. Number two is

53:10

learning to manage yourself.

53:10

Number three is empathy, really.

53:13

So it's really understanding how

53:13

the other person feels. So

53:17

number four, is then and

53:17

motivating them or influencing

53:21

them or exciting them along your

53:21

you know, along with your cause,

53:25

using what you've learned, using

53:25

what you've learned, and

53:30

managing yourself. So you go, I

53:30

know that I would just be really

53:34

motivated by getting I'd like an

53:34

extra week's holiday every year.

53:37

So I'm going to offer it to this

53:37

person, but maybe that's not

53:40

that's the last thing they want.

53:40

I'm

53:44

really excited

53:44

about this. Yes. Okay, we do.

53:50

We do have one question from a

53:50

boss here live with this. And

53:54

this is from Asandi. Hello,

53:54

Asandi. And I will say as Asandi

53:57

over here in the comments,

53:57

earlier posted, bless and

54:00

release. And I've heard her say

54:00

that in the community a couple

54:03

of times I've seen it, I think

54:03

there is something so powerful

54:06

to just even the ability to

54:06

bless something and then

54:10

obviously also releasing it. But

54:10

her question is, what are the

54:15

leadership challenges that your

54:15

clients most frequently face?

54:20

She's curious if how, and if it

54:20

differs from bosses, you were

54:24

navigating in the, in the

54:24

States.

54:28

I'm what my

54:28

clients are all over the world.

54:31

So I have a lot of clients in

54:31

the States. In fact, I probably

54:37

have equally equal numbers of

54:37

American clients and UK clients

54:41

and then a handful of others

54:41

elsewhere. So I'm just gonna,

54:45

I'm going to answer the first

54:45

part because I can't get my I

54:48

can't think how it's different

54:48

for the states. I think the you

54:52

know, there's different moods in

54:52

different countries at different

54:54

times, particularly this year,

54:54

depending on what phase of the

54:58

corona coaster you're on, you

54:58

know, different mood. But I

55:04

think honestly, and often I

55:04

think women claim this one for

55:09

themselves more than they need

55:09

to is imposter syndrome, is I

55:17

think you actually call them

55:17

frosty feelings. You know, it's

55:19

that kind of imposter syndrome.

55:19

That feeling it's not it's not

55:23

me, I'm not really the one to

55:23

this, somebody must have already

55:25

thought of this before me. And I

55:25

have worked with the most

55:30

confident alpha, you know, men

55:30

and women and I cannot say it's

55:35

exclusively that they've all had

55:35

that but it's been Very rare to

55:39

find somebody who doesn't have

55:39

some form of imposter syndrome.

55:44

It they just express it in

55:44

different ways. So I think that

55:47

is an I'm talking heads of

55:47

global organizations right down

55:51

to, you know, somebody who makes

55:51

candles, Emily.

55:57

Right? Thank you

55:57

so much for saying that. Because

56:00

I often find and feel like this

56:00

has actually come up many times.

56:04

But it doesn't matter how often

56:04

people hear at that everyone is

56:08

experiencing this, everyone

56:08

still feels like they're just

56:11

experiencing it because they're

56:11

just beginning or because they

56:13

are in this one situation or

56:13

because that's just them. And

56:16

that's how they deal or whatever

56:16

it may be, and that they're

56:19

doing wrong, that by feeling

56:19

this things like there's

56:21

something just wrong. And

56:21

granted, it could be more right.

56:25

Like, you could not be feeling

56:25

those things for sure. But

56:29

everyone experiences them from

56:29

candle makers, to CEOs of huge

56:36

companies. Everyone experiences

56:36

frosty feelings in one way or

56:41

the other, which also just rolls

56:41

into, and almost becomes our

56:44

like, lifelong purpose not only

56:44

like lifelong leadership, or

56:48

lifelong learning and always

56:48

being curious, but also

56:51

consistently fighting our own

56:51

imposter complex or frosty

56:54

feeling so that we do keep

56:54

showing up to do the work, then

56:59

it's about time for us to start

56:59

wrapping this up. So I would

57:02

love to know from you if there's

57:02

one have any last thoughts or

57:07

any last like comments, any last

57:07

tips you have for bosses who may

57:12

be listening to this, who maybe

57:12

needs to make that change from

57:17

managing either themselves or

57:17

others to really stepping into

57:21

that leader role?

57:23

Know that

57:23

imposter syndrome is part of the

57:26

job. So know that you're going

57:26

to wonder if you're good enough

57:30

for us? And the answer is maybe

57:30

maybe not. You know, we're not

57:36

always good at everything. But

57:36

give it Don't let the imposters

57:40

voice dictate whether you're

57:40

good at it or not. On that last

57:46

on that point. And I suppose the

57:46

other thing I would say if you

57:49

take anything if you take only

57:49

one thing out of this whole

57:52

hour, it's lesson, really

57:52

practice your listening, you can

57:56

you know, I've been listening

57:56

professionally for 20 years, and

58:01

I can still get better and

58:01

better. And I learned more and

58:05

more about listening and about

58:05

learning through listening.

58:09

And where can

58:09

people find more about you?

58:13

They can find

58:13

more about me at my website,

58:16

which is Sally netherwood.com.

58:16

Love it.

58:20

And my final

58:20

final question, Sally, what

58:23

makes you feel most boss

58:28

creating a

58:28

lightbulb moment and somebody

58:32

saying that moment where they

58:32

were over here and now something

58:37

has shifted and they will never

58:37

be back there again. It is

58:41

they've just popped to a new

58:41

place. Sometimes that's a little

58:45

thing makes a big difference

58:45

like and until now kind of

58:47

moment. And sometimes in my work

58:47

I'm privileged to to make quite

58:51

profound shifts in people. And

58:51

those have been really great

58:54

days. And I love

58:54

it. Thank you so much for coming

58:58

to hang out with us. This was as

58:58

magical as I thought it would be

59:02

Sally.

59:05

Fun as I thought it would be.

59:11

If you're anything like me, you're feeling some inspiration after that

59:13

chat. So the question is, do you

59:17

want to have some of your own or

59:17

sit in Well, I chat with guests,

59:21

then I can't encourage you

59:21

enough to join the being boss

59:23

community where you'll have

59:23

access to inspiring

59:26

conversations at every level.

59:26

Every member gets access to our

59:30

Monday meetups and our community

59:30

platform for posting questions

59:33

and engaging with members. In

59:33

the clubhouse you'll get access

59:36

to additional content like the

59:36

making a business podcast and

59:39

clubhouse conversation calls

59:39

like the one where this

59:42

interview was recorded. And if

59:42

you're a six figure boss looking

59:46

for an inspiring group of like

59:46

minded business owners to hold

59:49

you accountable and help you do

59:49

the work. Then check out the C

59:52

suite which has access to

59:52

everything else to learn more

59:56

and join in by going to being

59:56

boss club slash community. And

1:00:00

until next time, do the work. Be

1:00:00

boss