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1:01

Wellness,

1:02

one earth doesn't mean,

1:04

and why would we need to unpack it?

1:07

With over fifty eight million

1:09

hashtags on Instagram ramp, the

1:11

topic has really never been

1:13

more prominent. But,

1:15

and there is a but here.

1:17

Three and five of us feel that wellness is

1:19

in readably confusing. We

1:22

want to feel healthier. We want to feel

1:24

happier, but we have no idea

1:26

what clickbait and what's genuinely

1:29

health enhancing? Who's an expert?

1:32

And who's peddling absolute nonsense?

1:35

And look, I am right here with you on

1:37

this. at times, I've also

1:39

found this world really hard to navigate.

1:42

So welcome to wellness unpacked.

1:46

Our new podcast hosted by

1:48

me, Ella Mills, author

1:50

entrepreneur and founder of Deliciously

1:53

Ella.

1:54

this series aims to do just

1:56

as it states. Unpack the

1:59

world of wellness

1:59

with expert guests. These

2:02

guests will be sharing with me and

2:04

with you. They're three pieces

2:06

of advice for a better life to

2:08

feel healthier and happier. This

2:11

is a show and a conversation that's

2:14

about progress. It is not

2:16

about perfection. It's about helping

2:18

you make

2:19

small, simple sustainable

2:21

changes.

2:23

And within that, I'm gonna be

2:25

testing out a different wellness trend

2:27

every single week. Intermittent

2:29

fasting, salary juice, collagen,

2:32

ketogenic diets, CBD.

2:34

You name it. I'll try it.

2:37

I'll then unpick the trend, separating

2:40

act from FAD with

2:42

my friend, an NHS GP,

2:44

doctor Jemma Newman.

2:46

And together, we'll be equipping you

2:49

with the tools that can genuinely make a difference

2:51

to your life and well-being and equally

2:53

helping you potentially put

2:55

to one side the trends that may

2:57

make a little bit less different.

3:02

So are you ready for episode fourteen?

3:05

This is the final episode of this

3:07

series of wellness unpacked. And

3:09

our fourteenth guest is Doctor

3:11

Will Bauschopoulos. and I

3:14

truly cannot think of a better person

3:16

to round off this series. Will's

3:18

holistic approach to well-being really brilliantly

3:21

sums up so many of the key messages

3:23

that we've explored so far in this series.

3:26

Fundamentally, that health is a journey

3:29

and it's a very deep the personal exploration

3:31

that is going to look different on all of us.

3:34

But the one thing that I think we should and

3:36

could or have in common is this focus

3:38

us on simple daily tools. And

3:40

it's these simple daily tools that Will talks

3:43

about so passionately. It's not about

3:45

fans or trends, but at she's so

3:47

much more of a back to basics which

3:49

I have to say feels especially appropriate

3:52

in the current climate. There was an extraordinary

3:54

statistic I saw recently. where

3:56

almost sixty percent of people under forty

3:58

are deprioritizing their

3:59

health at the moment because of the cost of living.

4:02

I certainly found it quite reassuring Will's

4:04

approach in terms of those simple,

4:07

free daily tools that we should be thinking

4:09

about. And Will's been on a

4:11

very personal journey himself with

4:13

his own health which I certainly felt

4:15

mirrored a lot of what I've been through, and

4:17

I'm sure lots of you will feel the same.

4:19

And one of the things that I think you'll all

4:21

enjoy, and I certainly enjoyed in this episode

4:24

is the need to focus on progress over

4:26

perfection. Again, seeing our health

4:28

as a nonlinear, very

4:30

long term journey. So let's get into

4:32

the show.

4:35

Well, well, thank you so much for joining

4:37

me today. Welcome to the show.

4:38

thank you, Ella. It's a it's

4:40

a privilege to be here, excited to be here

4:42

with you. So

4:43

I was just telling you, I've been a big fan

4:45

of your work for a while and been following a lot

4:47

of what you say, and I think we'll

4:49

get into this. But I think what's so powerful

4:51

is that you take a lot

4:53

of complicated concepts and make them very

4:55

applicable to people every single day, and I think

4:57

our listeners will take a lot from

4:59

you with that today. But I wondered if

5:01

we could kick start with the question

5:03

that we ask everybody first, which is

5:05

what does wellness mean to you?

5:08

I

5:08

think we think they're associated exclusively with

5:10

health. And

5:11

I think that there's so much more to

5:13

it. I think that it's when you are fully aligned

5:17

in your true authentic self.

5:19

And when you

5:21

get to that place, there

5:23

is like physical health. There's also

5:25

emotional health and you're just you're

5:28

happy and

5:29

you're enjoying your life. And that's that's I think

5:31

where we all dream of being and

5:33

you know, part of the challenges of being adults

5:35

is it doesn't always come along

5:37

as easy as we wish it would, but

5:39

but that's what we're striving towards.

5:41

I

5:42

love that and I also love that you caveat

5:44

the fact that it sounds easier than

5:46

it is in real life and it's not always

5:48

a linear journey. And I'm really curious,

5:50

what's that journey look like in your own

5:52

life to getting to that definition and

5:54

that sense of well-being in yourself?

5:57

very imperfect. A lot

5:59

of stumbling, a

5:59

lot of fallen. You

6:02

know, people may be surprised that I feel

6:04

like sometimes people whipped me up as

6:07

being

6:08

ambassador for healthy eating.

6:11

And

6:11

yet of my forty

6:13

two years, the vast

6:15

majority of them I spent eating junk food.

6:17

And

6:18

so an important part for

6:20

me is connecting with people on their

6:22

level And I feel

6:24

like I understand where they're coming from

6:26

because I was there. And

6:28

I always sort of feel like the message

6:31

that I put out whether I'm on social

6:33

media or in my books or wherever it may be.

6:35

I feel like I'm talking to the version

6:37

of myself from ten years ago. I

6:39

love that. It's funny. Actually, makes feel quite

6:41

emotional because I I very much resonate

6:43

with that before I started delicious

6:45

the other. the idea of meditating

6:47

would have seen so alien

6:50

such a waste of time. I hated

6:52

healthy food. I loved sweets

6:54

and chocolate and all that sort of thing.

6:56

And I had this moment

6:58

recently actually where I thought, gosh, it's all been

7:00

really worthwhile. It's not being perfect

7:02

and it's not being linear by any means, but

7:04

I'm happier in a more

7:06

consistently, contented, peaceful

7:09

way and you know, when you're

7:11

making that decision, it's quite intimidating. And

7:14

I think knowing that it will be worthwhile in

7:16

the end is quite it's quite reassuring hearing

7:18

that from you.

7:19

Yeah. I think it is intimidating. You

7:21

know, if you said to me in two thousand twelve

7:24

that I would be vegan

7:26

or anything sort of like that, I would have told you

7:28

you're completely crazy. And and I

7:30

think that that's one of the things that's

7:32

important to me in the position that I

7:34

am is to present

7:37

a path for people

7:39

that is not overwhelming and intimidating,

7:41

but instead is a

7:43

celebration of just

7:45

taking that small little dinky

7:47

stab and recognizing that frankly,

7:49

you deserve it, that you deserve to

7:51

feel better, to feel well. And

7:54

and every step on that path is worth celebrating

7:56

because it's a beautiful thing. And

7:58

was there one particular moment in

7:59

your life that made you think, right,

8:02

I've gotta make a big change? It

8:04

feels like there was this moment, Ella,

8:06

where I was looking at

8:08

myself in the mirror, and the the the

8:10

man that I saw in the mirror didn't come

8:12

out of nowhere. This

8:14

was the conservation of years of

8:16

working too hard and

8:18

deprioritizing myself in

8:21

the interest of trying to accomplish my professional

8:23

goals. And during that time, you

8:25

know, really, we're talking about my medical training.

8:27

My medical training in the States was sixteen

8:29

years. And I was grinding

8:31

the whole time. I mean, I was

8:33

basically working the whole time. And

8:36

fast food fit so

8:39

perfectly. It tasted

8:41

good. It made

8:42

me feel good for, like, a quick second, not

8:44

a couple hours later, but

8:46

it

8:46

was cheap, it was easy.

8:48

So

8:48

it's, like, everything that I needed they

8:50

could fulfill except for the fact that I paid a

8:53

price, but that price was delayed

8:55

later on. And I feel like I

8:57

woke up one day and I looked in the mirror

8:59

I'm in my early

9:01

thirties, and

9:02

I'm just like, who is that guy?

9:04

This is not the guy that I

9:06

remember. from high school,

9:07

from college, and he doesn't

9:09

look well. And

9:12

I was in a place where my health

9:14

was compromised, by my choices,

9:16

and I was having medical problems. I

9:18

was also depressed. I was

9:20

anxious. And

9:22

I had

9:24

extremely low self esteem. And

9:26

which, I mean, may shock.

9:29

Like, if a person knew me in that moment, it

9:31

would say your pushing you all of your

9:33

professional goals. How can you possibly feel

9:35

that way? That's

9:36

how I felt.

9:38

And so I knew something

9:40

needed to change. And I was

9:41

looking for that solution in the irony

9:44

of it all. This is not

9:46

a slight against the

9:48

healthcare systems that exist in the US and

9:50

the UK. or against

9:52

doctors because I am

9:54

one. But I didn't

9:56

want my own medicine. I didn't

9:57

want pills. didn't wanna just cover

9:59

it

9:59

up. I wanted a real solution.

10:02

I just didn't know what that was. I hadn't yet

10:04

been taught. Before

10:05

I move us on to our first piece

10:07

of advice, because think there's such riches

10:09

in there. I'm just curious, was there anything

10:12

in particular or any tools that

10:14

you felt really helped you

10:16

build your self esteem to

10:17

help you on that trajectory to

10:19

improving your total overall

10:22

health. It's

10:22

a great question.

10:25

So I think, you know, I'm just gonna

10:27

speak for myself here. This is not

10:29

necessarily something that's been scientifically validated

10:31

I think the part of it is the

10:33

maturation process that you independently go

10:35

through. So I

10:37

feel like I was an extremely insecure

10:39

twenty something male. And

10:42

when I got into my thirties, I started to

10:44

feel like I was finding and understanding myself.

10:47

Strings and weaknesses and all. And that

10:50

was part of what helped me to get there. I think some

10:52

people get there at a much younger age.

10:55

So that's part of it. I think

10:57

that taking steps

10:59

that are

11:00

challenging and

11:03

persevereing through them, demonstrating

11:05

to yourself that you can do it, that

11:07

there's a reward on the other side. To

11:10

me, that really helps to build my self

11:12

esteem, my self confidence. So,

11:14

yes, exercise is good for you. but

11:17

also exercise is challenging.

11:20

And if you can get yourself to go and

11:22

do it, and then you feel that

11:24

benefit in that reward. That

11:26

is part of what I think pulls you to a

11:28

better place. And so so for me,

11:30

it was partially reexercised and then it

11:32

was transforming my diet and

11:35

then just kinda seemed to open up.

11:37

And then

11:37

you saw the benefits kind of build up over

11:39

the last ten years?

11:41

Absolutely. And and I think the part

11:43

of it too was that being

11:46

in a state of

11:48

feeling

11:49

unwell. I

11:50

didn't feel good. I

11:52

was

11:52

sick. And when

11:54

you can lift

11:57

yourself out of that, which for me

11:59

was through

12:00

diet and lifestyle. The

12:02

difference in how you feel is enough to

12:04

start to feel good about yourself. because

12:06

you've drawn yourself to a better place, you've managed to

12:08

get there. And so I

12:10

think that to me was a big part of this, was just

12:13

kind of overcoming those challenges that I

12:15

was struggling with. And

12:16

I think the sense that that's been a

12:18

kind of ten year process leads us

12:20

on

12:20

so brilliantly, actually, to your first

12:23

piece of advice, which is something I

12:25

absolutely love, which is to focus on

12:27

progress over perfection. And when

12:29

you're thinking about your diet, it's the

12:31

overall diet pattern versus

12:33

exactly what you do on a minute by minute

12:35

basis that matters. I think it's

12:36

very important to understand this. You

12:39

know, no

12:40

one meal will make

12:42

or break your health, and there is

12:44

no such thing as perfect. There's

12:47

never been the perfect human with

12:49

the perfect diet, you know, even though there are

12:51

these beautiful Hollywood people and

12:53

whatnot, they have their challenges

12:55

too. And so

12:57

I think it's important to to see

12:59

that ultimately what matters is

13:01

the bigger picture. and not

13:03

those small choices, and you are

13:05

entitled to pick the

13:07

food that Dr. B says is not

13:09

necessarily the most healthy food on the

13:11

planet, and enjoy it because I

13:13

do too. There's nothing

13:14

wrong with that. But understanding

13:16

that in the grand scheme of things, your

13:19

broad diet, a diet that really should

13:21

be built on abundance.

13:23

And

13:23

what we would love to see is

13:26

eating more plants in variety. And

13:28

when you do those simple steps

13:30

you start to move yourself towards.

13:33

A diet that I

13:34

believe is going to make you feel

13:37

well and is going to elevate your

13:39

health and there are many benefits that come from that.

13:40

I

13:41

found it very insightful will

13:43

that you said, go and eat the thing

13:46

that's not kind of inherently on the good for

13:48

you list. and enjoy it. And it was

13:50

the enjoy it bit that I really wanted to pick

13:52

up on because I think as I

13:54

guess leads on to a second question, actually,

13:56

certainly where eyes sit. I feel like we have a

13:58

very binary, very

13:59

kind of black and white look

14:02

at the way that we eat and

14:04

we're kind of being good or we're being bad.

14:06

And so I think so often,

14:08

people don't actually enjoy it. You know,

14:10

there's a big piece of chocolate cake, go out

14:12

for dinner, and, you know, you're having

14:14

fries and and all the rest of it. but

14:16

you don't actually enjoy it because you sit there

14:18

and people feel so guilty about it. And

14:20

I'm really curious your take on that because my

14:23

sense is that exactly what you're

14:25

saying, you know, a healthy diet is

14:27

something that you can sustain for decades,

14:29

not not for days, and it's that,

14:31

you know, mostly plant rich dire

14:33

that you can adjust and flex to

14:35

suit your lifestyle, but then keep

14:37

coming back to lots of plants.

14:40

But I just feel that

14:42

people really really struggle with that. It

14:44

sounds like a simple premise, but in reality, I think

14:46

there's just so much guilt laded

14:48

with not being quote unquote perfect. I

14:50

think it's just part of striking that balance.

14:52

Yeah. No.

14:52

I totally agree

14:53

and I just I find it

14:55

a real shame that we've almost lost the enjoyment

14:58

of the balance because

15:00

we have this diet culture

15:02

so ingrained in our society.

15:04

And I guess as part of that, I know you talk about

15:06

kind of a health hype train and the

15:08

dangers of that, of the fact that

15:10

there's always what feels like a kind of new

15:12

faddy diet whether that's the keto diet

15:14

or the Atkins diet or the duke diet

15:17

and so on. And I'm quite curious

15:19

your thoughts on

15:19

all of that. I can

15:21

find something good in

15:24

literally every single diet.

15:25

No matter which one it is.

15:27

Like, even the carnivore diet, which I categorically

15:30

disagree with. at least

15:32

they're eliminating certain foods that are

15:34

unhealthy. So

15:37

at the end of the day, though, Speaking

15:39

to these specific sort of dietary

15:41

patterns, I think it's

15:43

about creating a lifestyle that just

15:45

feels very natural to you.

15:48

and doesn't require such rigorous

15:50

strict effort because when

15:52

it's so strict and so effort

15:54

based, it feels like ultimately

15:56

it's set up for failure. And

15:57

when you fall off the bandwagon, that's

15:59

when the problems start to show up.

16:02

So I prefer things, like, I

16:04

think that's sustainable.

16:05

is an important word when it comes to dietary

16:08

choices. And so

16:09

rather than shoe hoarding yourself

16:12

into some specific pattern that you heard

16:14

was you know,

16:15

the way to go and it's trending or whatever

16:17

it may be. I instead

16:19

think that it's better to just start

16:21

to make small simple, sustainable choices

16:24

that you can get on board with that you think are

16:26

great, that you're eating food that you love,

16:28

and then given

16:30

time, like, not a quick thing, not four

16:33

weeks, but given months, given

16:35

years, like, we're talking about my ten

16:37

years experience. given years

16:39

that this can get you to a better place.

16:42

Right. And I guess it would be fair to say

16:44

that sticking to say a ketogenic

16:46

diet for ten years would be quite

16:48

tricky and might

16:50

detract some enjoyment from your life because as

16:52

you said, it's just so rigid. But

16:54

I'm also curious where you think that's obviously a big

16:56

trend at the moment. about measuring

16:58

your blood sugar. There's so many

17:01

devices around that I've seen

17:03

people wearing. Obviously, I'm not talking about for

17:05

patients with diabetes of it's a

17:07

different kettle of fish. But

17:08

it feels to me like, again, the

17:10

diet transmuter

17:11

so far that we're kind of taking

17:13

very medicalized like the keto diet or

17:16

this blood sugar control, and then

17:18

translating it to all kind of

17:20

healthy adults, which feels a

17:22

little bit misrepresentative to some extent

17:24

potentially? I think you're right. So I

17:25

guess real quick to comment on the

17:28

ketogenic diet or, you know, if that diet

17:30

is more broadly,

17:32

There are definitely people. There is no doubt. There are definitely

17:35

people who have

17:36

health related issues consuming

17:38

a

17:38

standard US or

17:41

standard British diet and

17:43

they move towards, for example, a

17:45

ketogenic diet and actually improve their health.

17:47

There is no doubt. but

17:49

the problem is sustainability. It's a very

17:52

restrictive diet. And

17:54

the vast majority of people who

17:56

attempt to follow a ketogenic diet don't actually get

17:58

themselves into tosis.

18:00

So, you know, again,

18:02

I feel like there are choices that

18:05

exist, that are more

18:06

sustainable are just as

18:08

if not more enjoyable and

18:10

that don't require you to make compromises

18:12

that could potentially be

18:15

problematic. when it comes to

18:17

some of the trends of biohacking. Will

18:19

you

18:19

just expand

18:20

on biohacking for anyone who doesn't

18:22

know exactly what that term means? Yeah.

18:24

So biohacking is sort of

18:26

the idea of

18:29

finding tricks to

18:31

improve your body's

18:34

performance or physiology or

18:36

whatever it may be. And

18:38

in many cases, it involves

18:42

wearable

18:42

technology or other sort of

18:44

technology based tools that

18:46

provide some sort of insight that you would

18:48

use to make your choices. And,

18:52

you know, in this conversation about

18:54

continuous glucose monitors, let

18:56

me say that there

18:59

is a role for consumers' glucose

19:01

wanderers. It's not to say that there is no

19:03

role. For

19:04

example, I'm involved with a company named

19:06

Zoe. And part of what we do is we use consumers'

19:09

glucose monitors, but it's also important for people

19:11

to understand we do much more than

19:13

use consumers' glucose monitors. We also use

19:15

microbiome and we use food

19:17

blogging app and your blood whippets. Right now, we're just

19:19

gonna focus on the glucose monitor. People

19:22

are plugging this in.

19:24

And what it does is it tells

19:27

you what your blood sugar is

19:29

around

19:29

the clock. It's

19:30

definitely interesting. you have a

19:33

meal and you can see what your

19:35

blood sugar does after that meal.

19:37

The problem is that

19:39

you are taking your

19:41

health in your choices

19:43

and you're distilling it down

19:46

to one variable, blood

19:49

sugar. As

19:49

if this one variable

19:51

is the

19:52

principle determinant of human health

19:54

during your lifetime.

19:57

There is no one variable that the

19:59

principle

19:59

determinant of human health during your

20:02

lifetime. And

20:03

when we oversimplify it

20:05

like that,

20:06

We're asking for

20:07

trouble because these

20:09

choices that you make, you

20:12

will accidentally it

20:14

tripped up on choices that aren't good for this

20:16

one variable, but

20:17

actually you're compromising the bigger picture,

20:19

which is your health. And

20:21

there's examples that we could cite.

20:24

The example that I would cite

20:26

is applicable to both the use of these

20:28

glucose monitors. and

20:30

also to the ketogenic diet,

20:31

which is that they would motivate you to

20:33

say I should not consume fruit.

20:35

Fruit is incredibly healthy.

20:38

It's

20:39

actually been shown to reduce your risk

20:41

of obesity, to reduce your

20:44

risk of diabetes, and

20:46

many other diseases. yet

20:49

if the principal concern was

20:51

carbs such as in

20:53

ketogenic diet or if

20:55

the principal concern was, what does it do to

20:57

my blood sugar? You

20:59

would exclude

20:59

fruit from your diet.

21:02

And I

21:02

see this as

21:06

Inappropriately, vilifying

21:08

a healthful food based

21:10

upon some sort of rule or standard

21:13

or metric that actually is

21:15

missing the big picture, which is your health? It

21:17

feels

21:17

to me, certainly,

21:19

that all of these sort of trends, if you

21:22

just wanna compile them

21:24

altogether, I think the biggest challenge, as you said, is

21:26

that

21:26

yes, there can be benefits, but ultimately, they're

21:28

all quite reductive. they're all massively

21:31

simplifying something incredibly complex

21:33

and removing all nuance, which I

21:35

think generally in life is not the

21:37

best approach in my view.

21:39

But what I'm curious about is do you feel

21:41

that reductivism is so

21:44

tied to the fact that we're desperate for a

21:46

magic answer. We all

21:48

want a silver bullet, you know, one thing

21:50

we can do that will change our

21:52

health and because we're so drawn to

21:54

that. We quite want one pill we can

21:56

take or one super food powder or

21:58

one multivitamin or one diet we

21:59

can follow and sort of that is that

22:02

case closed. Yeah.

22:04

I

22:04

think that's true. We've seen this time and time

22:06

and time again. And, you know, I think it's

22:08

kinda interesting when you think about this

22:10

within the context. of, for example,

22:13

how the healthcare system has

22:15

evolved. So, I mean, if we went back

22:17

to

22:17

World War two and Penicillin gets invented

22:19

for the first time, that really is what

22:22

created

22:22

the healthcare system that we have

22:25

because that pill was so

22:27

powerful, so seductive.

22:29

that

22:29

we discovered that you could use pills to treat

22:31

medical problems. And then

22:33

we built an entire

22:34

healthcare system around that, and we

22:36

lost track of the

22:39

bread and butter basics

22:41

that grandma

22:42

taught us,

22:44

and

22:44

grandma was right. You have to

22:46

eat a balanced, clean diet.

22:49

You

22:49

have to exercise. You have to get a good nice

22:52

rest. You have to pay attention to

22:54

your mood. And it's

22:56

unfortunate that we have lost that from our

22:58

healthcare system and part of the

23:00

reason why we have lost sight

23:02

of our ultimate path

23:04

is because we've been seduced by

23:06

pills or by the powder or by the

23:08

blood sugar. What you get back to

23:10

is the simple stuff

23:12

It's

23:12

kinda boring,

23:14

but the simple stuff. It really

23:16

works. I was

23:17

just gonna say on the simple stuff. I always

23:19

say the same thing, you know, if you're really think about

23:21

your health. It's about eating more carrots and more

23:24

lentils, and these things are so unsexy.

23:26

They just don't get massive kind of media

23:29

pickup versus things that are trends or

23:31

gadgets or Gizmos. And

23:33

they just need yeah. They need a bit of

23:35

promoting those simple simple

23:38

tools. think that leads us on

23:40

Nancy to your second piece of

23:42

advice, which is the importance of nurturing the

23:44

mind gut connection. will you tell

23:46

us a little bit more about why this was so

23:48

important to you to include in your three

23:50

pieces of advice?

23:51

It's kinda shocking. the

23:53

connection that exists between

23:55

our gut microbiome and

23:58

our brain and

23:59

our You would

24:01

think of these as separate things, and

24:03

yet they are completely intertwined, completely

24:07

connected, they're talking to one

24:09

another, literally as we speak. and

24:12

one affects the other and

24:14

vice versa. And

24:16

so the reason why I bring this up

24:18

is that for Part

24:20

of what I've done as a gastroenterologist is

24:23

care for people who have complex

24:25

medical issues and they're not

24:27

getting better. And many

24:29

of them,

24:30

the they

24:31

do everything right.

24:33

They eat a clean diet, they sleep,

24:36

they exercise. And there's something

24:38

invariably that's holding them

24:40

back. And what I've discovered

24:42

Ella in my professional experience

24:45

is these people

24:47

where it just feels like they're

24:49

not where they need to be, yet they're trying and

24:51

they're doing everything right. Many times

24:53

it comes back to the gut brain

24:55

connection. And if

24:56

there's something in their life

24:59

that is distressing them,

25:02

or

25:02

troubling them. They may be conscious. They

25:04

may be unconscious.

25:06

They may not even, like, be

25:08

fully aware that this is there.

25:10

but

25:11

it's there and

25:13

it's

25:13

activating this connection between the brain and

25:16

the gut and ultimately restricting

25:18

their gut health.

25:20

And so

25:21

a quick example, I'll help you in

25:23

mind, is I

25:25

had a patient

25:26

recently who

25:28

she had

25:30

ulcerative

25:32

colitis and was

25:35

suffering

25:35

for in

25:37

basically years in and out

25:39

of flares,

25:40

and he were trying

25:42

everything. We

25:43

were doing diet lifestyle. We had

25:45

our good medication.

25:47

And this

25:48

just felt like such a struggle like we

25:50

were both frustrated. And then

25:53

everything changed when she

25:55

left her job. She

25:58

didn't realize that

26:00

it

26:00

was the work that she was doing

26:02

and the stress that she felt around

26:04

that work and the way that her boss

26:06

was treating her. that was

26:09

impacting her in such a

26:11

negative way that it

26:13

actually was manifesting through her

26:15

ulcerative colitis. And

26:17

when

26:17

she had the audacity to leave that

26:19

job and find a new job,

26:21

she

26:21

went

26:23

into remission. most

26:24

disturbing instantly.

26:25

And so it's

26:28

I think one of the powerful parts

26:30

of our life, which is that

26:32

we need to tend to our

26:34

mood and have we feel be very

26:36

conscious of this and

26:38

nurture it because this

26:40

ulcerative colitis example through this

26:42

patient of mine, this is

26:45

just her story, just

26:47

one example. I think every single one of us has

26:49

a story to tell in how our

26:51

mood affects us and our health more broadly.

26:54

It's amazing.

26:55

It's such a powerful example.

26:57

I remember actually quite early on in

26:59

the podcast with me a few years ago, but we

27:01

were talking to got health specialists here

27:04

in her saying the very similar types

27:06

of stories where so many

27:08

patients, they were just so focused

27:10

on their diet? What can I get right in my diet? What can I get

27:12

right in my diet? And seeing little

27:14

reprieve in their symptoms such as particularly

27:17

with IBS? and then addressing their

27:19

stress and their mental health, suddenly

27:22

all their

27:22

symptoms changed. And What

27:25

wanted to ask will because I think

27:27

sometimes stress feels like a really

27:29

intangible concept. It's

27:31

obviously a word that we all hear all day

27:32

every day. There's a lot of

27:34

headlines around stress, but I

27:36

think it'd be really helpful actually for listeners

27:39

just to almost give us A101

27:41

on what is stress do in the mind and

27:43

the body because I think

27:45

in the kind of hustle harder culture of

27:47

the western world, there's this sense

27:49

of like, oh, what doesn't clearly makes

27:51

you

27:51

stronger, you know, stress, just

27:54

part of life. Gotta just get on with it.

27:55

And actually, not realizing that

27:58

it's not just around us or just

27:59

in our minds, not that that's a just living

28:02

in your minds, but actually it really

28:04

kind of proliferates all around

28:06

the body and can have profound

28:08

effects especially over time.

28:10

Yeah.

28:10

That is so true. I think we need to separate

28:13

out the type of stress that can

28:15

be beneficial to

28:17

us. because it's a challenge that our body or

28:19

that we can rise to and then grow

28:21

stronger from so like an example of this

28:23

is exercise. Right? So

28:26

exercises and stress on the body, but

28:28

because you go through that stress, you

28:30

actually become fortified

28:32

and become more capable. You grow

28:35

stronger. So this is not an argument against things that

28:37

are challenging. Things that are challenging are actually

28:39

incredibly important in our life. And you and I, we

28:41

were talking you know,

28:42

podcast about how facing

28:45

challenges

28:45

and persevering through them is actually part of

28:47

how you build self esteem.

28:50

but that's different than a

28:52

perpetual state of distress

28:55

or

28:55

duress. where

28:57

you feel like

29:00

you are being closed off or boxed in

29:02

in a way by things that are happening in

29:04

your life. And when

29:06

that happens, it's

29:09

activating certain physiologic responses that

29:11

we have in our body that were

29:13

designed for us to, like, you know, in the moment

29:15

that we need to rise to a challenge,

29:17

we can rise to that challenge. But

29:19

instead, we're just activating those responses

29:22

perpetually. And it's

29:24

things like, for example, the

29:27

brain will release a hormone called

29:30

corticotropin releasing hormone. and

29:32

it's

29:32

connected to our sympathetic nervous

29:35

system. So people hear

29:36

about sympathetic versus parasympathetic,

29:39

Harrisonathetic, by the way, is

29:41

like a relaxed state. So

29:44

it's like the way

29:44

that you feel when you're ready to go to bad

29:47

or

29:47

when you're relaxing on the couch, digesting

29:49

a delicious meal.

29:51

Right? It's a different place or how you

29:53

feel like the Zenlike feeling of a good

29:55

session of yoga. as opposed to

29:57

the sympathetic nervous system, which

29:59

is

30:00

our fight or flight

30:03

nervous system system.

30:04

It's like

30:05

our adrenaline rush. It's

30:07

the part

30:08

of us that needs to get something

30:10

done and to step up.

30:12

the brain in the setting of

30:14

stress releases this hormone called corticotropin

30:17

releasing hormone or CRH.

30:19

It spreads

30:20

throughout the body and

30:22

it initiates a cascade

30:24

as cascade of events where

30:26

multiple steps are happening activating

30:28

the sympathetic nervous And if

30:30

you follow that waterfall down to the bottom, the

30:33

part that

30:33

gets affected at the end is

30:35

your gut microbiome.

30:36

And so there's

30:39

a compromise that we make

30:41

in order to activate this part of

30:43

our body. You can't just

30:45

turn into a superhero and not have to pay some

30:47

sort of price for this. And

30:50

so when we activate this,

30:52

ultimately it manifests through

30:55

our gut.

30:55

And

30:56

there are many examples

30:58

in the real world that we encounter

31:00

where, you know, for example,

31:02

you're

31:02

getting ready to speak

31:04

publicly and it makes you nervous.

31:06

And that stress response

31:09

that you have is actually

31:11

manifesting with some queasiness. or

31:13

a little pit in your stomach, where

31:15

that ball, that pit starts to grow and

31:17

become bigger and becomes actually something that's more

31:19

painful and uncomfortable. Okay?

31:23

So we've all been there and experienced

31:25

that. That is the manifestation

31:28

of this stress response. But

31:30

what

31:30

if we were activating that twenty four hours

31:32

a day? And that's kind

31:34

of what we're referring to here

31:37

is that when

31:38

we activate this part of our

31:40

body excessively, particularly when

31:42

it's an ongoing situation

31:44

where we feel uncomfortable.

31:46

that is where we get

31:49

into things that can have negative

31:51

consequences in terms of our broader

31:53

health.

31:53

And if people are wanting to

31:56

nurture this mind gut connection and

31:58

really look after that

32:00

microbiome, what would be the key

32:02

tools that you would suggest become part of

32:04

a daily ish slash

32:06

weekly routine. I

32:09

think

32:09

that there's a number of different tools that

32:12

we can why. Some of them have literally

32:14

nothing to do with what you eat. So

32:15

as an example, like

32:18

literally getting a good night's rest.

32:21

can be

32:21

absolutely huge.

32:23

And being attentive to

32:25

the hours that lead up to when

32:27

you're going to bed, because it's

32:30

during

32:30

that window of time that we can do things

32:32

that potentially could disrupt our sleep.

32:34

So eliminating caffeine in

32:37

alcohol later

32:38

in the afternoon or late in the evening, and

32:40

being very cautious about our exposure

32:42

to bright white, particularly

32:44

light from electronics.

32:46

Those lights can

32:47

actually suppress the hormones that

32:49

are associated with sleep like melatonin. Melatonin

32:52

supplements by the way have become very

32:54

popular. But we shouldn't have to

32:56

supplement with melatonin in order to get a good

32:58

night's rest, our body produces it.

33:01

And so it's important get away from those bright

33:03

lights. So, like, for example, they're

33:05

super nerdy. I don't have them in the room

33:07

here with me right now, but I have

33:09

these blue light blocking glasses. They're

33:11

very orange And I'll

33:13

typically wear them for two hours prior to

33:15

going to bed. And I found them to

33:17

be pretty helpful. Like, I I can

33:19

actually sense

33:21

the quality of my sleep because I have

33:23

really deep dreams when I

33:25

wear

33:25

these glasses. So getting a

33:27

good night's rest is one thing.

33:29

physical movement is another.

33:32

Just getting outside and

33:33

some exercise. As simple as

33:36

going for a walk can be

33:37

difference making. And when it comes to our food,

33:39

I

33:40

see it as we should eat in a

33:43

way that elevates both

33:45

our

33:46

mood mood and our

33:47

gut microbiome at

33:49

the same

33:49

time. We can rise

33:52

the tide. And the

33:54

way

33:54

that we do this was actually demonstrated

33:57

by Professor Felise

33:58

Jaca in

33:59

a clinical trial called the Smiles trial.

34:02

In the Smiles trial, it's an interesting

34:04

name for a study. They were

34:06

treating people who had major depression, moderate

34:08

to severe depression with

34:11

the a dietary

34:11

change and they gave them a

34:14

plant centered

34:16

Mediterranean

34:16

diet and found that it

34:18

significantly

34:20

improved that underlying

34:21

issue. Now they didn't measure the microbiome in

34:23

that

34:23

study, but I'm quite sure that

34:25

if

34:26

they did,

34:28

a

34:29

plant centered high fiber Mediterranean diet. They

34:32

would discover that part of what was

34:34

happening was we were benefiting

34:36

the gut And part of

34:37

what was happening was we're also lifting up

34:40

our mood through this brain gut

34:41

connection.

34:44

Yeah.

34:44

Her work

34:45

is apps extraordinary. Actually, a couple of my colleagues went to

34:47

SMR that she did a few weeks ago, and we're

34:50

just absolutely shocked at

34:53

the data really just

34:55

backing

34:55

up all the things that we've talked about today

34:58

with this mind gut connection and the fact

35:00

that the way that you live your life has

35:02

such a found impact on your mental health. And I think that's something

35:04

yeah. Often we go through life

35:06

and we don't necessarily realize

35:08

what making us feel in a certain way

35:10

or think there's not as much we can do about it.

35:12

And I think, as you said, just to go back to

35:14

words you were using earlier, it's very empowering

35:17

actually to start to piece

35:18

this all together. And I guess,

35:20

in piecing it together, I know

35:22

very passionate about lives on medicine, and

35:24

I think it's very powerful for these words

35:26

to come for a doctor to say yes your diet

35:28

is important, but so is the whole of the rest

35:30

of your life and the way that you take care

35:32

of your mind and your body. and

35:35

I feel that links are very well with your third piece of advice, this idea

35:37

of service with the purpose. What did

35:39

you mean by that? On

35:42

a

35:42

beautiful run through the park, on a pleasant day, you can easily

35:45

get lost. No. No. No.

35:47

She didn't kill him. in

35:50

your true crime podcast. It

35:52

was the pool guy. So obvious.

35:54

Whatever motivates you works for

35:57

us. It's all about letting your run

35:59

be

35:59

your run. And Brooks is

36:02

here for every runner doing the

36:04

research and sweating the

36:06

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your run. Brooks,

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36:42

Okay. So I'm

36:45

gonna

36:45

step away from being a medical

36:47

doctor for a moment and I'm

36:49

just gonna come to you

36:52

as Will. I'm a

36:53

guy. I got three

36:54

kids. I'm a dad. I'm

36:57

a proud husband. And what are

36:59

the things that I've learned in my

37:01

life that, like, let's pretend Ella that I'm sitting down with my son who's six

37:03

years old. And I wanna teach him, I'm

37:05

dead. I don't have a conversation

37:07

with my son. about

37:09

the lessons that I think are really important that I've

37:11

discovered that I wish I'd know.

37:13

I think service with a

37:16

purpose is

37:18

incredibly gratifying.

37:19

And part of coming back to

37:20

building that self esteem that you and I

37:23

were talking about in the very beginning,

37:25

to serve others, the serve others

37:28

to elevate them, to

37:31

invest

37:31

into their

37:33

well-being. The beautiful

37:35

thing about it is

37:37

that we are such social creatures. We need

37:39

one another. We can't do

37:41

it without the

37:42

support and love of others.

37:46

I

37:46

would be

37:47

nothing without my family backing me

37:49

up. And I'm quite sure you

37:51

would say the same. Definitely.

37:54

definitely And so

37:57

though recognizing

37:58

that

37:59

part of getting

38:00

that support where we lift one another up comes

38:02

from taking that step forward

38:05

to serve first.

38:06

the serve first So I'm

38:09

a big believer that when you give others give you back

38:11

so much more. And then service

38:13

with a purpose, purpose. I've

38:16

I've

38:16

witnessed this in my professional career,

38:18

but I've also just

38:20

felt this myself, which

38:23

which is that is that we

38:24

need to feel like we're working towards something.

38:27

And so I think

38:29

it's really important as humans this

38:31

is part of, you know, I kinda feel like what happened for

38:34

me as I left my twenties

38:36

getting into my thirties. It's starting to figure out, like, what

38:38

do I

38:40

wanna do? What

38:40

is my life about? And there should be

38:42

a theme,

38:42

and it could be one of many different

38:44

things or a couple.

38:46

It could

38:47

be family.

38:49

It could be something

38:50

professional. It could be a

38:52

hobby. There are a

38:53

lot of great options out

38:55

there. But find what it is that

38:58

defines you. and

39:00

do it, and

39:01

enjoy it, and

39:02

when you align your life around that.

39:04

So I've

39:05

been very fortunate that

39:07

my

39:07

career has

39:08

fallen into place, not by my

39:10

planning, but just sort of I've been very

39:13

lucky. My career has

39:14

fallen into place where the things that I get to do

39:16

on a daily basis are the things that are

39:18

my passion. And it gets me excited, and

39:20

it brings up the best of me.

39:22

And

39:22

that to

39:24

me is a big part of what has contributed to

39:26

the satisfaction have in my life. So

39:28

I think it

39:30

just comes back to investing into

39:32

those relationships and doing the things

39:33

that your passion about and making

39:36

sure that you build around that north

39:37

star. I

39:38

agree wholeheartedly with that, and

39:41

it's actually interesting. I

39:42

feel that

39:43

sense of aligning your life

39:45

with your values is a story and

39:47

a message that just keeps coming up

39:49

time and time again from so many

39:51

different professionals, whether it's you as a doctor. I know

39:53

you're speaking as as well as a whole

39:55

rounded person, but it's just interesting also

39:57

from a psychologist

39:59

psychologist

39:59

and a neuroscientist. And from a

40:02

whole multitude of different people coming

40:04

at the topic of health and

40:06

well-being from different angles, and yet

40:08

that message continues. to stay the same, which I think

40:10

is so interesting. And I guess as a closing

40:12

question, I almost just really want

40:14

to rewind it. You know, you were talking about

40:17

being in your shoes ten or so

40:19

years ago when you weren't where

40:21

you wanted to be in your life. You didn't feel

40:23

you were really

40:26

recognizing yourself. I'm sure there's people listening who are

40:28

thinking, great, but I

40:30

don't really know what my purpose is. You

40:32

know what I'm I'm not that

40:34

happy. I really wanna be happy, but I'm I'm

40:36

not very happy. I feel quite

40:38

stuck. I feel quite ruddlous.

40:40

I feel

40:42

quite lost. what words would you have for them? The first thing

40:44

that I would say

40:44

is I want you to know that you are

40:47

above. There are people in your life who love you.

40:49

They care about you deeply.

40:52

I think

40:52

it's important for all of us to acknowledge that. They may sound a

40:54

little corny or cheesy, but that's, like, I

40:57

think, part of feeling good

40:59

about ourselves is is feeling

41:02

loved by others and

41:04

it's something that exists for all

41:06

of us. You deserve to feel well. You deserve to feel good

41:08

about yourself. You deserve to love the

41:10

person that you see in the

41:12

mirror. And the and part

41:14

of feeling that way is to just

41:17

accept the things that you're

41:19

passionate about. It's

41:21

okay whether it's popular,

41:23

not popular, whatever, maybe, doesn't matter. Just be

41:26

just be

41:26

just be happy. Just do the

41:29

things that bring you great joy.

41:32

what a

41:32

perfect perfect moment to end on.

41:34

And, well, I really can't thank you now

41:37

for taking the time to share. so

41:39

much valuable insight and information

41:42

with us. I really, really

41:44

respect and appreciate your very holistic take

41:46

on health and well-being and I

41:49

hope it's been helpful for listeners to move away from

41:51

a very kind of singular path or reductive way of

41:53

looking at their health and

41:55

kind of appreciate. all

41:57

facets of it and all facets of

42:00

who they are. So just a massive thank you

42:02

so much. It's my pleasure. Thank you

42:03

for having me. Thank you for

42:06

everyone who listened and

42:08

I guess I'll leave it at that.

42:10

Well, what a

42:13

pleasure

42:13

to

42:14

speak to Will? He's truly radiant.

42:16

it's a sense of reassurance that

42:18

I think is often missing

42:20

in this very confusing world

42:24

of wellness. So I hope you took as much from that I

42:26

certainly did and I feel very lucky

42:28

to have been able to finish the series

42:32

with him. It feels like it's bought so many of the different themes

42:34

that we've explored together. And

42:36

for a final fact or fad, the part

42:38

of the show

42:39

where doctor Newman and I

42:41

test out all sorts of wellness trends. We're going to

42:43

be looking at infrared sauna

42:46

blankets. So let's find

42:47

out what doctor German

42:50

Newman thinks. So,

42:51

Gemma, today

42:54

we have a topic,

42:55

which I'm fascinated to hear what you think.

42:58

We're looking infrared corners. It's

43:00

quite an ramp trend. I'm

43:02

sure we've all seen it. I bought

43:04

one in lockdown. Best

43:06

purchase ever. I just love it.

43:08

It's so cozy. there's something that

43:09

makes me

43:10

feel so relaxed and calm at

43:13

the end and a very

43:15

curious if there's any evidence behind it.

43:17

But before we start looking specific

43:19

there in Fred's corners. Could you just give us

43:21

a kind of top line? What's the

43:23

difference between a sauna obviously has

43:25

an extraordinarily rich

43:28

long lasting cultural history,

43:30

particularly in the Nordic countries. Yeah.

43:32

And then an infrared sauna, which

43:34

feels very

43:36

kind of twenty

43:36

first century. Yeah. No.

43:37

You're right. So sauna or sauna, as they say,

43:39

in Finland, has been around for a long, long

43:41

time. And it was a great way to

43:43

bring communities together. And it's essentially a

43:45

way of heating your body from the outside, you know,

43:48

they use hot coals and things to

43:50

heat the body. And there's lots of

43:52

reported health benefits over

43:54

the years. But the infrared sauna, that's more of a kind of a heating the

43:56

body almost from the inside out. It's a

43:58

safe kind of

43:59

radiation that

44:02

essentially increases the core body temperature. Like

44:04

you would, if you were exercising or if

44:06

you were in a sort of normal outdoor

44:10

sauna, but it uses infrared electromagnetic frequencies to

44:12

do that. And why

44:14

may

44:14

that be good or not good?

44:16

So

44:17

they it's it's good.

44:18

So the top line is it can have

44:21

some good health benefits, but there's also

44:23

a huge amount of claims online.

44:26

that there are no evidence for. So it's kind of a

44:28

bit of a mixed bag. The idea is

44:30

that it's gonna be great

44:33

for things like skin health and joint health

44:35

and detoxification and weight loss and

44:38

it can help your mood and all

44:40

sorts of

44:42

other things And there are some studies to show that it can help with some of those

44:44

things. So we've got evidence to

44:46

show that it could be beneficial for joint

44:48

health and

44:50

recovery, specifically studies on

44:52

rheumatoid arthritis, for example, as

44:54

well. There are some study evidence to show

44:56

that it can be really beneficial for

44:58

your mood. reducing things

45:00

like anxiety and depression. Not sure why

45:02

might be something to do with the fact

45:04

that it's supposed to help reduce oxidative stress.

45:07

there's some moderate evidence to suggest it's good

45:09

for your cardiovascular health as

45:11

well. Again, not really sure

45:13

why, but it may be to do with nitric

45:15

oxide release from electromagnetic

45:18

frequencies that you're exposed

45:20

to, it does seem

45:20

to be able to reduce your blood pressure

45:22

and your blood vessel flexibility. which

45:25

are two important things for maintaining cardiovascular

45:28

health. And there

45:29

is some model evidence that it

45:31

might improve performance and

45:34

recovery. I'd like to see more evidence on

45:36

those things. And we don't have any evidence really that it

45:38

can help with anything like detoxification or

45:41

weight loss or

45:44

your skin health or cancer. There's even been cancer claims online.

45:46

We have no evidence for any

45:48

of those. I think the main

45:52

thing that would really sway a lot of people would be weight loss

45:54

or detoxification. Those are the things

45:56

that I think people think all this might be quite

45:58

good

45:58

in always not be quite good for

45:59

for. but we don't really have evidence for it. I

46:02

mean, sweating does reduce

46:03

water retention, so you may find that

46:05

you weigh a bit less after

46:07

a sauna session. but that's more

46:09

to do with the water that you've lost

46:11

from the planet. It would just come back

46:13

when you rehydrate. Yes. That's that's one

46:15

of the biggest fallacies that

46:18

I found. And then when it comes to things like detoxification, the idea

46:20

is that we build up certain chemicals

46:22

and heavy metals in our fat cells. And

46:24

if you go into

46:26

a sauna, or you have a

46:28

infrared sauna that that sweating can actually somehow get rid

46:30

of those toxins. But because you're

46:32

not increasing a metabolic rate

46:35

or you're not really inducing fat burning,

46:37

then there's not really any evidence for

46:39

toxin elimination either. But

46:42

yeah, I'm excited to see that there is some pretty

46:44

good research on things like joint health

46:46

mood

46:46

and reduced oxidative stress.

46:48

So it's

46:48

a sort of exciting early stage

46:52

research happening. Yeah. But it may not do everything that Instagram's

46:54

promising you that it will. Exactly. And

46:56

I would

46:56

actually be really wary of

46:59

some of those claims because people

47:01

will spend a lot of money on these I was gonna say it's really expensive. It was

47:03

a lockdown

47:03

purchase. And as I said, I

47:06

love it. love

47:08

it for two reasons. Number one, because

47:10

you're all strapped in. You can't use

47:12

your phone. You can't use any devices.

47:14

And so I find kind

47:17

of in the evening. I'll pop something nice and

47:19

telly. And then I'm just generally relaxing. Like, I

47:21

really am relaxing and all

47:24

your muscles relax in

47:26

the in the heat. Mhmm. And so I

47:28

get to the end and I feel I do

47:30

feel infinitely calmer than if

47:32

I just watch TV basket by

47:34

myself. Alexa, without the blanket.

47:36

And I love being hot, like I

47:38

love. I'm just like

47:40

a lizard. man.

47:42

So in the cold months, I

47:44

look for anything that would turn me into a

47:46

lizard, basically. But I can see he

47:48

could be just pointed because I I wouldn't say

47:50

I've noticed many other changes.

47:53

No. I think

47:54

it's just important to

47:57

be aware that the basic foundations of health

47:59

are

47:59

gonna be the same for everybody. You know, things like good

48:02

nutrition and good mental

48:04

health and sort

48:04

of prioritizing moving your body

48:06

and sleep and In infrared sauna

48:08

devices are another interesting addition

48:10

if you have the money and

48:13

you'd like to. But, yeah, I wouldn't

48:15

necessarily up against every single claim that's been made out

48:18

there. And is this is the last

48:20

episode and the

48:22

last fact far of the series have really really been reflecting.

48:24

And they've not taken one thing from every

48:26

single conversation that we've had but

48:28

actually over the whole series of

48:30

the podcast. it

48:32

really has been that there's so many snazzy things

48:35

out there, but are

48:37

very normal, very natural desire

48:39

for a quick fix.

48:42

will never be solved. Mhmm. And there are so

48:44

many powders and devices and

48:46

gadgets and gizmos and diet

48:50

plans and all sorts

48:52

of promises and people and

48:54

gurus. But ultimately, fundamentally,

48:57

true good health is something that

48:59

you measure and you look at.

49:01

over decades, not even over a year. Mhmm.

49:03

And it fundamentally is made up of time

49:05

with friends, going for

49:08

a walk, can't believe they go for a walk has ninety percent of the benefit of a

49:10

marathon that came from our Blue Zones episode,

49:12

which is extraordinary. You know,

49:14

sleeping more

49:16

It's managing your mental

49:17

health, breathing exercises, five minutes of

49:19

mindfulness. And all of these things

49:21

could have a role in your life if you'd like them

49:23

too if you enjoy it.

49:26

you want to be a lizard like I want to be a lizard.

49:28

But they're wholly unnecessary. And

49:30

I think that's been such helpful

49:34

message. You know, it's the same even when we were talking

49:36

about protein powder. Yes, you can buy

49:38

it. Yes, it could be

49:39

an easy way to get protein

49:41

if you don't have time to Kirk,

49:43

etcetera, etcetera. But ultimately, chickpeas,

49:45

tofu, much cheaper,

49:48

delicious,

49:49

Yeah. Easy peasy. Yeah. And actually, it

49:51

is it's almost a quite depressing

49:53

message, which is it's

49:56

putting in it's

49:58

kind of she fundamentally is truly putting in the time every day.

49:59

Isn't it? It

50:00

is. And it's the daily ish

50:02

habits. It's not the one green powder

50:05

you take in the morning, but

50:08

consciously having a few more veggies at each meal --

50:10

Yeah. -- or stopping watching Netflix and

50:12

going to sleep a little bit earlier.

50:15

And I say that it's depressing

50:17

only because it's not easy. Yeah.

50:19

And we'll see making those decisions

50:21

every single day. Yeah. And also with reference to the Blue

50:23

Zones episode, there are so many things that are out of our

50:26

control that the families that we grew

50:28

up in and the social determinants of health

50:30

that we just have no

50:32

control over. That to me is the most

50:34

depressing part. But when

50:36

you realize that there are

50:38

incremental things you can do each

50:40

day to help you feel better than you did

50:42

before, then that's that's the gold,

50:44

isn't it? That's the real gold of all of

50:46

these messages. It's the things that you've known about forever, that your did,

50:48

that your great grandma didn't. Actually, it's almost

50:50

kind of reverting back to that and leaving

50:52

all the fancy things. tap

50:56

into it if you like it, but fundamental. I've one thing

50:58

from the whole series. It's the

51:01

simple boring everyday

51:04

supermarket friendly things that are fundamentally gonna stack up

51:07

to shape your health. Nothing else.

51:10

I agree.

51:12

So wow, that's

51:14

it for this episode for

51:16

this series and I

51:17

just can't thank you all

51:19

enough for coming on this journey

51:21

to feeling a little bit better with me. It's been such

51:24

a honor to speak to such an

51:26

incredible collection

51:28

of guests.

51:28

to soak up all their

51:31

wisdom. I really have implemented quite a lot of

51:33

what they've said in

51:34

my own life and I'm seeing

51:36

quite

51:36

shoring transformations but not from the big things but from the

51:39

small simple tools. From changing

51:41

aspects of

51:41

my outlook and my nutrition on a day to

51:43

day basis and

51:46

it's extraordinary what can

51:46

happen I think when you start to really focus in on

51:48

it.

51:49

So I can't wait to see you guys back

51:51

here. We'll be

51:51

back in January. Anything

51:53

you want us to talk about next series, anything you've

51:56

enjoyed this series, please let us know.

51:58

Please share it. As always,

52:00

at deliciously, yellow on social or

52:02

podcast at deliciously

52:03

yellow dot com. And just remember, if

52:06

you're gonna make any big changes to your

52:08

lifestyle, it's always worth consulting your

52:10

GP. And otherwise, that's it.

52:12

Just a mess thank you for

52:14

listening. A massive thank you for being part of this

52:16

community and a massive thank you to

52:18

curly Media who have

52:18

been the most brilliant partners in producing

52:21

the show this series.

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