0:13

Hello and welcome. I'm

0:13

Rachel.

0:16

I'm Jake,

0:17

and we're so board. The

0:17

Podcast where each episode we

0:21

take a close look at a tabletop

0:21

game and discuss our personal

0:24

experiences with said game to

0:24

help answer the question, Will

0:27

this cure our boredom?

0:29

That's right, we look at

0:29

the mechanics complexity and

0:31

replay ability in a game to

0:31

determine if it's the perfect

0:34

alternative to say,

0:36

having your laptop commit

0:36

un alive before trying to record

0:39

this episode,

0:40

and then also having every

0:40

technical issue we could

0:42

possibly have before recording

0:42

this episode.

0:45

Whoa. Hey, welcome Emma

0:45

and Tilly, welcome to our

0:49

podcast.

0:51

Thank you. Thank you. Glad

0:51

to be here.

0:54

bear, bear, bear bear.

0:56

Sound the horse and sound.

0:59

It's just Jake, Jake is the sound board.

1:02

relatable, relatable,

1:05

Emma and Tilly are from

1:05

the Geek Squared Show podcast.

1:09

Feel free to go ahead and tell

1:09

us a little bit about yourselves

1:12

and introduce yourself.

1:14

So I'm Emma beside me is

1:14

Tilly. And yes, we are hosts of

1:18

the Geek Squared show, which is

1:18

a podcast we host where we talk

1:21

about the things that we talk

1:21

about which consist of

1:24

movies, TV, books, comic

1:24

show, comic show comic shows,

1:31

pretty much anything that

1:31

inspires us, and we just love to

1:33

have a good old conversation

1:33

about it. We release episodes

1:37

every Monday wherever you get

1:37

your podcasts. So check us out

1:40

if you think that might be something you're into.

1:42

Yes, we've got Emma and

1:42

Tilly on our show. And they are

1:46

here to talk about a game that

1:46

we've been playing together. And

1:50

just to be fair, we're also on

1:50

their show, I think having a

1:54

more interesting conversation,

1:54

to be honest, debating who's the

1:58

best Batman?

1:59

Yes, it was very

1:59

enlightening. I have some

2:03

different opinions after that.

2:03

And I would like to throw some

2:06

fists, but I will refrain.

2:09

It was brutal. Before we

2:09

get into the game that we're

2:13

talking about today, Jake, real

2:13

quick. Tell us all about

2:16

streaming.

2:18

Streaming is when a

2:18

content creator and a computer

2:22

love each other very, very much.

2:22

And they get together and they

2:26

make stuff or they play stuff

2:26

and other people watch them play

2:30

stuff.

2:32

So it's porn.

2:35

Tilly, I don't think you're old enough for this conversation.

2:40

We stream on Twitch weekly

2:40

on Wednesday nights we stream

2:43

board games at twitch.tv/so

2:43

board Podcast. I'm not sure what

2:48

we're going to be playing when

2:48

this episode releases or what we

2:51

will have just played because

2:51

this is kind of recorded in the

2:54

future. So I don't know. That

2:54

being said, I am also streaming

2:59

on Twitch and I just got a

2:59

Nintendo 64 controller so I'm

3:03

going to be doing some more

3:03

retro streams. Castlevania is on

3:06

the list. Starfox is on list.

3:06

Donkey Kong 64 That's a good

3:10

one. Mystical Ninja. Those are

3:10

all coming up soon. But I'm at

3:14

twitch.tv/naughty Doc 541 That's

3:14

NAU gh t YDO C 541. And it's not

3:23

really consistent right now.

3:23

It's whenever I'm not working so

3:26

but make sure you have

3:26

notifications turned on so you

3:28

can see when I'm on.

3:29

Alright guys, tell us

3:29

what game are we talking about

3:32

today?

3:33

So guy no crisis.

3:40

ToKaido

3:42

This is an awesome

3:42

little game where you are taking

3:45

your walk across Japan. It is so

3:45

cute and just wholesome and I

3:50

love it.

3:50

Yeah. Tokaido is actually

3:50

designed by Antoine Bauza with

3:54

art by Xavier, Ginny fee Duren,

3:54

published by fun forge games in

3:59

2012. And fun fact, I didn't

3:59

know when we started playing or

4:04

when we were playing earlier.

4:04

But Tokaido means eastern sea

4:08

Road, which is what you're walking along.

4:10

Yes. ToKaido is actually

4:10

one of the most traveled roads

4:14

in Japan.

4:16

Learn something new. Is

4:16

it realistic to walk from Kyoto

4:19

to Edo in four days?

4:21

According to Google Maps,

4:21

it would take you 98 hours to

4:26

walk from Kyoto to Tokyo.

4:28

Hmm, that's pretty

4:28

accurate X will oh well, but the

4:33

thing is, is that you're not

4:33

walking for 24 hours straight.

4:36

Not true. You might be

4:38

it's gonna take you more

4:38

than four days to walk this

4:41

road.

4:41

Yeah, I mean, as per the

4:41

time period, you could also take

4:45

a horse drawn cart. True, or a

4:45

donkey or a donkey?

4:50

But yes, it will take 98

4:50

hours so it's almost almost

4:54

accurate.

4:55

Yeah, okay. But yeah, so

4:55

that's basically the synopsis of

4:58

the game. We Are travelers that

4:58

are walking across the Tokaido

5:02

Road and traveling from Kyoto to

5:02

Edo. And your goal is to gain

5:08

the most victory points while

5:08

traveling by doing things like

5:12

meeting fellow travelers

5:12

stopping at temples, capturing

5:16

panorama paintings, visiting hot

5:16

springs and buying souvenirs.

5:21

Alright, Emma, do you want to

5:21

describe what the board looks

5:25

like and kind of the play order

5:25

and what the travelers are?

5:29

For sure.

5:30

So the board is set up in

5:30

a linear path to your

5:33

destinations, but many

5:33

locations, you can stop along

5:36

the way. There's hotsprings.

5:36

There's merchants, there's

5:40

places where you can stop and

5:40

get your panoramas. There's also

5:43

ins where everybody gathers

5:43

before we set out for another

5:46

day, at the end of each day we

5:46

gather at these ins, the person

5:50

furthest behind all the path is

5:50

always the next person to go,

5:53

which can result in sometimes

5:53

someone going multiple times in

5:57

a row that is a popular

5:57

strategy. And there's also

6:00

different travelers that each

6:00

person can be that provide

6:03

unique powers. And start with a

6:03

different number of coins you

6:07

can use to buy food and

6:07

souvenirs. Until you

6:11

tell us about the locations you can stop

6:12

that Well, boy would I

6:12

ever like to do that. So we've

6:17

got a bunch of different

6:17

locations, we've got the village

6:20

where you draw three souvenir

6:20

cards and choose any number to

6:23

buy, you can opt to skip out and

6:23

buy no souvenirs, souvenirs are

6:28

organized into one of four

6:28

categories. We've got food and

6:31

drink small objects, art and

6:31

clothing. And a unique

6:34

categories of souvenirs are

6:34

worth more points. And the

6:36

person with the most souvenirs

6:36

at the end also gets three bonus

6:39

points. There's also a farm

6:39

where you get three coins from

6:43

the reserve. There's also

6:43

different panorama spots where

6:47

you can gain one piece of the

6:47

respective panoramas. So we've

6:50

got the rice paddy, we've got

6:50

the mountains, and we've got the

6:53

ocean. Once you gather all of

6:53

the cards for each panorama, you

6:57

get bonus points on top of that

6:57

as well. Then we also have the

7:00

hotsprings where you gain a

7:00

random card with either two or

7:03

three victory points.

7:05

So there's also the temple

7:05

location. This allows you to

7:08

donate anywhere between one to

7:08

three coins to the temple, which

7:11

each grant you one victory point

7:11

per coin. And at the end of the

7:16

game, there is an end of game

7:16

bonus for the player who has

7:19

donated the most player who has

7:19

donated the most gets 10 victory

7:23

points, second place gets seven,

7:23

and it goes down from there down

7:27

to the fourth player getting to

7:27

also we have encounter spaces

7:31

these are where you're going to

7:31

be meeting people or travelers

7:34

on the road. And you'll get to

7:34

talk to them and they'll offer

7:36

you different rewards. Some of

7:36

the rewards include victory

7:40

points, coins, free souvenirs,

7:40

free donations to the temple and

7:44

free panorama pieces. And the

7:44

inn is the last location that

7:49

we're going to talk about on the

7:49

actual board. This is where

7:52

everyone stops to sleep and eat.

7:52

This is mandatory. This is kind

7:56

of like the rounds, if you will.

7:56

This is what separates when you

8:00

change turn order and things

8:00

like that. So the first person

8:03

to arrive draws meal cards equal

8:03

to the number of players plus

8:07

one, and then chooses one to

8:07

purchase for themselves. The

8:11

next player to arrive chooses

8:11

from the remaining meal cards

8:15

and so on and so forth. Players

8:15

cannot have more than one have

8:18

the same meal card at any given

8:18

time in the game. And meals are

8:22

always worth six victory points,

8:22

which is nice, because you're

8:25

always going to have 20

8:25

something at the end of the

8:28

game. Assuming you can pay for

8:28

it. Assuming you can pay for it,

8:32

yes. Now the person who spends

8:32

the most money on meals will get

8:36

three bonus victory points at

8:36

the end of the game. And the

8:39

last person to arrive at the end

8:39

actually gets to go first into

8:44

the next section of the game.

8:44

And the person who arrived right

8:48

before them go second, and

8:48

third, and then fourth,

8:50

continuing. So the first person

8:50

to get there. So the last one to

8:53

leave last one to get this first

8:53

one that leaves.

8:56

And I mean that's

8:56

basically the game. So you are

8:58

just traveling along this path,

8:58

you get to choose to stop at

9:03

these various locations along

9:03

the way, you can go as far ahead

9:07

or not as you want. Some

9:07

locations offer two spots that

9:13

can hold two travelers at a time

9:13

and some only offer one, but you

9:16

just kind of go down until

9:16

somebody gets to the end. And

9:20

then that person is done until

9:20

everybody gets to the end. And

9:24

then it kind of goes again. And

9:24

there are three rounds,

9:29

essentially that you're playing

9:29

through like that. A couple of

9:33

variants that you can have in

9:33

the game is you can do it like a

9:37

beginner's mode where you

9:37

playing without the travelers

9:40

that give you the special

9:40

abilities. You can do a return

9:44

trip basically where you're

9:44

playing in the opposite

9:46

direction and traveling from Edo

9:46

on the right to Kyoto on the

9:50

left. That doesn't make much of

9:50

a difference. It's just like the

9:54

special places that you go to

9:54

are in a little bit of a

9:56

different order. Gastronomy

9:56

means that You only draw enough

10:01

meal cards for the number of

10:01

players instead of doing the

10:04

plus one. So that gives you a

10:04

little bit less of an option

10:07

when you go to buy your meals.

10:07

And then there's a preparations

10:11

variant that kind of offsets the

10:11

benefits that people get from

10:15

arriving first or last at the

10:15

end. So the person who arrives

10:20

last at the end actually has to

10:20

pay an extra coin, because

10:23

they're going to be the first

10:23

one to leave and get to choose

10:25

what they do on their way out.

10:25

While the first person who

10:28

arrived at the end actually gets

10:28

two coins, to kind of pay for

10:32

the fact that they are going to

10:32

be the last one to leave. But

10:36

that's basically the game. So

10:36

let's talk about our

10:39

experiences. This is where it's

10:39

gonna be fun, huh?

10:45

We have had a lot of fun

10:45

playing this game. I think it is

10:48

only fair to start with the

10:48

chaos. That is Tabletop

10:52

Simulator. if we may. You know

10:52

what, Tabletop Simulator is

10:56

great. However, you have the

10:56

freedom to do pretty much

11:00

whatever you want. There was a

11:00

lot of throwing pieces around

11:03

tipping over coin bowls,

11:03

flipping the table. Yeah, either

11:08

when things weren't going our

11:08

way or what we between turrets,

11:12

whatever we felt like it just

11:12

poking fun of each other. Yeah,

11:15

just because we're bored. Yeah.

11:15

And we like to mess with each

11:19

other.

11:19

If you've got the option

11:19

to flick a piece, launching it

11:23

into the stratosphere, I think

11:23

you just kind of have to

11:26

mandatory.

11:28

Yeah, so I think Jake

11:28

and Tilly both kind of took this

11:32

as a goal in life while playing

11:32

on Tabletop Simulator. And I

11:38

just want to say like, this is

11:38

nothing new for Jake, this is my

11:40

first time playing with Tilly on

11:40

here. But why are the guys

11:43

trying to cause chaos.

11:47

Because it's what they do.

11:47

Now, it was great, though, it

11:53

added another layer of fun when

11:53

things I wouldn't say got a

11:57

little stressful. But whenever

11:57

we had to consult the rulebook,

11:59

and there was just some dead

11:59

air, we kinda just got to fool

12:02

around and laugh at ourselves.

12:02

So it was great.

12:04

I liked the scheme a lot,

12:04

because it's kind of chill. I'm

12:08

only batting 50/50 for this

12:08

game. So I don't you know, I

12:12

don't have any, like special

12:12

love for it or hate for it. It's

12:16

a very cool experience. You're

12:16

just going and traveling and

12:20

getting these different

12:20

pictures. Basically, I like it

12:23

kind of reminds me of parks

12:23

almost.

12:26

I agree with that. Again, it's the same kind of concept where you can stop

12:28

anywhere along the way that you

12:30

want. And you're receiving

12:30

different things. There's kind

12:34

of a point salad where there's a

12:34

variety of different ways to

12:38

gain points, which I really

12:38

like, you know, it's not just

12:40

one strategy that you have to go with.

12:43

I definitely liked that

12:43

there's like different character

12:46

abilities. So it started like

12:46

literally every time you can

12:49

play a different game, or it's

12:49

like from something like

12:52

Monopoly, it's like, you know,

12:52

it is what it is. And that's how

12:56

it's always going to be, you know,

12:58

again, comparing it to

12:58

something like Monopoly. I like

13:00

the Zen feel of this game,

13:00

because I'm someone who loves to

13:05

play games, but isn't

13:05

wholeheartedly competitive. So I

13:08

love just being able to chill

13:08

out, you can step away from the

13:11

game if you need to. Or if you

13:11

need to just take a mental

13:14

break, come right back to it.

13:14

You haven't missed too much. It

13:16

doesn't get cutthroat

13:16

competitive. And it's just a

13:19

great game to play with a group of friends.

13:21

I agree with you. I'm

13:21

like, I really like kind of

13:24

those chill games. I'm also, I'm

13:24

not super competitive. I do

13:28

sometimes get upset when Jake

13:28

wins for all the Forever games

13:32

like well,

13:32

because Jake wins all for

13:32

all forever. And I never would

13:36

ever never.

13:37

Sometimes I do get a

13:37

little annoyed with that. But I

13:40

honestly don't play Super

13:40

competitively either. And I just

13:43

really kind of enjoy the journey

13:43

of playing the game. And in this

13:46

you're enjoying the journey of

13:46

walking across Japan and like

13:50

kind of collecting these cool little things.

13:52

Yeah, the aesthetic of the

13:52

game is very nice. The ancient

13:56

Japan theme. I really dig that.

13:56

It's very cool.

14:00

It's definitely a very,

14:00

like calming art style.

14:03

Okay, what are your

14:03

guys's favorite ways of gaining

14:06

points in this game?

14:07

Personally, I like I

14:07

can't remember the character's

14:10

name right off the top my head

14:10

but it's the painter character

14:13

where once you get to the end,

14:13

you can also pick a panorama

14:17

card. Because if you like you

14:17

can play basically at two times

14:22

speed with that, which is nice.

14:24

That is nice. And also

14:24

just in general the panoramas

14:27

are like a good way to get

14:27

points. It's one of those things

14:30

that I think I commonly

14:30

underestimate. I'm always like,

14:34

the panoramas are a waste of time I'll do something

14:38

I find I focus too much

14:38

on the panoramas and miss out on

14:40

all the other points about you,

14:40

Emma. I am

14:45

very different when it

14:45

comes to board games. I just

14:48

enjoy getting the bather

14:48

achievement. I like visiting all

14:52

the hot springs they got little

14:52

monkeys and um little baboons

14:56

and if you go to as many

14:56

hotsprings as you can and

14:59

therefore the most Almost out of

14:59

all the other players, you get

15:01

this achievement called bather,

15:01

and I just like it.

15:05

Okay, Jake, what's your

15:05

favorite way to get points in

15:07

this game?

15:08

My favorite way that I

15:08

ideally would like to get points

15:11

in this game is the gift shop.

15:11

But I don't think I've ever

15:14

gotten points from the gift shop.

15:17

You don't do it or somebody blocks you.

15:19

Yes, I do really like the

15:19

temple, because it's 10

15:23

additional points at the end, if

15:23

you have the most of their plus,

15:27

for every coin that you donate

15:27

there, you get one victory

15:31

point. And there is one

15:31

character that I believe

15:33

whenever you donate, you get two

15:33

victory points for the first

15:36

coin. Hmm. So that is one of my

15:36

favorite ways to do I would like

15:40

to go and collect all the stuff

15:40

at the gift shops, but I just

15:43

never seem to get that

15:45

it is definitely

15:45

difficult. My favorite way to

15:48

get points is to go to the gift shop.

15:51

And this is why it's so difficult

15:53

to be aware of this fact,

15:55

I'm always grabbing

15:55

those spots blocking the gift

15:58

shop. Yeah, that's my favorite

15:58

way. Because I don't know what

16:01

it is about games where like,

16:01

you collect sets of things,

16:05

because I do the same thing in

16:05

five tribes where you're

16:07

collecting the sets of cards

16:07

from the market, but like I

16:10

really liked that mechanic, I

16:10

guess, and trying to collect all

16:14

these different types of items.

16:14

And so that is typically how I

16:19

try to gain points. But I forget

16:19

to do other things. Like, it's

16:24

really important to kind of mix

16:24

that up with other things

16:26

because the panoramas, like

16:26

that's free, all that costs you

16:29

as a stop, right? Whereas the

16:29

gift shop costs actual money.

16:32

And that's money that takes away

16:32

from being able to pay for meals

16:36

later or, you know, being able

16:36

to do some other stuff. So it

16:41

requires a balance that I often

16:41

forget. Yeah, I often visit the

16:46

gift shop thinking it's a great

16:46

idea and then realize that I

16:48

have no coins to spend

16:48

beginner's mistake,

16:53

impulse control, impulse

16:53

control poor.

16:56

All right. Do you guys

16:56

have any fun stories from

16:59

previous games that you had

16:59

played together? Or with anyone

17:02

else?

17:02

No, I don't think so. I

17:02

think they were pretty standard.

17:05

The most fun was with you guys.

17:05

To be honest.

17:08

The most fun was

17:08

definitely having a coin bowl

17:10

battle up in the top right.

17:12

Oh, my goodness. I was

17:14

up there trying to read

17:14

the rulebook. And you guys are

17:17

putting these bowls of it. And

17:17

I'm like, I'm trying to read

17:21

like

17:24

I was throwing the balls

17:24

over the edge.

17:26

Well, they were getting

17:26

stuck, like hovering over the

17:29

rulebook and casting this shadow

17:29

so that I couldn't

17:33

read it. That's not what I

17:33

was trying to do. I was just

17:35

trying to throw him over the

17:35

side. Okay.

17:37

I was just trying to

17:37

throw chicks little hand thing

17:40

on the screen.

17:41

I was just watching. I was

17:41

watching the chaos ensue. I

17:44

could do nothing to stop it. You

17:44

were helpless. I was completely

17:49

helpless. I was an innocent

17:49

bystander collecting my

17:53

hotsprings victory points and

17:53

getting that bather achievement

17:57

Yeah, just just pay them.

17:59

And it was actually a

17:59

pretty close game Jake one this

18:02

one but we were all within like

18:02

two points of each other. Yeah,

18:06

I

18:06

was surprised how close it

18:06

was in the end. Yeah. worked out

18:09

really well.

18:10

You guys did well, learning learning.

18:13

We try for a while there.

18:13

It seemed like we were way way

18:16

behind to the point where Rachel

18:16

said you guys, you know, you're

18:20

supposed to move the little

18:20

thing at the top to keep track

18:23

of your points. So we said Yeah,

18:23

yeah, we know. This is how many

18:26

points we have.

18:28

We just really suck is

18:28

what Emma said and I was like,

18:31

Oh, I just mean to make you feel

18:31

that way.

18:34

But that being said the

18:34

achievements at the end can

18:36

really make a difference.

18:36

panoramas you collect again, the

18:40

gourmet bather, etc

18:40

achievements, they really really

18:44

do add up.

18:45

Yeah, because I think I

18:45

only collected the one for

18:47

having the most souvenirs and

18:47

then Emma until we were playing

18:51

on a team because they have they

18:51

unfortunately are missing a

18:55

second laptop. Yes. So Emma and

18:55

Tilly playing on a team and then

19:00

Jake like split the rest of the

19:00

achievements pretty evenly

19:03

between them I think.

19:04

Yeah, I got three I think

19:04

yeah, I really got one

19:08

Jake only got three

19:12

Yeah, three out of the

19:12

five the fact that you can just

19:17

flip and flip and flip and flip

19:17

and flip and flip and flip just

19:22

continuously and watch the table

19:22

and Tabletop Simulator just fly

19:26

off into the distance. I do like

19:26

flipping the table. It's just

19:30

the best Yeah, I

19:31

think we had just as much

19:31

fun in Tabletop Simulator as we

19:34

did playing the game.

19:37

Just cuz you can make a mess and you don't have to clean it up. Checkers would be fun on

19:39

Tabletop Simulator and that's

19:43

like a boring

19:44

game. Yeah, just load up

19:44

the game that has like the most

19:48

components and just flip the

19:48

table and that's your pastor

19:51

evening. Honestly,

19:54

I am excited to talk about

19:54

the expansions for this game.

19:58

New encounters was the first

19:58

expansion Note was released in

20:00

2012. This only adds four new

20:00

encounters to the encounters

20:04

deck, so it's not really a huge

20:04

expansion. But the Crossroads

20:09

expansion from 2013 adds new

20:09

choices to each location. So at

20:14

the hotsprings, you will now

20:14

also have bathhouse cards, you

20:18

can pay one coin to take a

20:18

bathhouse cart, which is worth

20:21

four victory points immediately,

20:21

and then counts towards the

20:24

hotsprings End of game bonus.

20:24

Cherry Tree cards are available

20:29

at all panorama locations

20:29

instead of picking that panorama

20:33

that you are at. So if you're at

20:33

either the rice paddy, the ocean

20:37

or the mountain, you can instead

20:37

choose to pick a cherry tree

20:41

card. And it is worth one coin

20:41

immediately and two victory

20:46

points immediately. The gambling

20:46

den is something that you can do

20:49

at the farm locations, you bet

20:49

two coins and you roll this dice

20:53

that is provided and you have

20:53

the chance to either lose all

20:56

your money, get your money back,

20:56

get four coins, or get eight

21:01

coins, depending on what you

21:01

roll. And there are also

21:04

amulets, amulets are available

21:04

at the temple locations. There's

21:09

a set pool of available amulets,

21:09

and they will all have different

21:13

effects. So So one of them, I

21:13

believe, is you can use it and

21:16

get gold immediately, or use it

21:16

to get a panorama of your choice

21:19

immediately. Once you use that

21:19

it is returned to the pool of

21:23

available amulets. So it is one

21:23

time use. And it does cost one

21:28

coin at the temple. So instead

21:28

of choosing to donate, you can

21:31

choose to purchase one of these

21:31

legendary objects are available

21:35

at the souvenir shop. These also

21:35

have different effects, which

21:39

will change the number of

21:39

victory points that you get. So

21:41

one of the effects is instead of

21:41

acting as one of the types of

21:46

souvenirs that you can get, it

21:46

actually counts as a fifth in

21:51

that set, adding an additional

21:51

set of victory points. Yeah,

21:57

next, we have calligraphy cards,

21:57

these are cards that are

22:00

available from when you land on

22:00

the encounter spaces. Instead of

22:04

choosing your encounter, you can

22:04

choose to pay one coin to

22:07

purchase the calligraphy card

22:07

from the available pool. These

22:10

are worth victory points. And

22:10

they are also counted towards

22:14

the end of game scoring

22:14

objective. So that is the

22:17

Crossroads expansion.

22:18

I like a lot of these

22:18

options that they're adding,

22:21

it's like, okay, you can go to

22:21

the hotsprings. And you can get

22:24

more victory points if you have

22:24

the extra coins to spend. But if

22:29

you don't like you can still

22:29

just get the regular thing from

22:32

the hotsprings for free. That's

22:32

really cool. And like I like the

22:35

legendary items from the

22:35

souvenir shop. That's really

22:38

cool.

22:38

I do too. I definitely

22:38

like when there's like a very, I

22:44

guess, in this case, like pool

22:44

of items or powers that you can

22:47

get. Because the more complex

22:47

something is, I feel like the

22:51

more strategy can go into it.

22:51

And the more strategy you can

22:54

put into it, the more fun you're

22:54

gonna have. Yeah,

22:57

yeah. And it sounds like

22:57

this expansion in particular

23:01

adds to the game without getting too confusing.

23:04

Yeah, there's a very fine

23:04

line between complex and

23:07

confusing. That's true.

23:10

And we'll get more into

23:10

that in our rating section,

23:13

complex and simplicity and

23:13

difficulty and all that.

23:17

The next expansion that is

23:17

out currently is a 2016

23:22

expansion. It is called the

23:22

matSuri expansion now and the

23:25

matsuri is a festival or feast.

23:25

So what this does, this adds new

23:29

effects that happen when you

23:29

visit the ends. So the first

23:33

person to stop at the end draws

23:33

two matsuri and gets to choose

23:37

the effect. There are 17

23:37

different effects. So some of

23:40

them are each shop has one less

23:40

space available from now until

23:45

the next in. That's one of the

23:45

examples I saw. And if that shop

23:49

only has one space on it, that

23:49

shop is closed, you cannot go

23:53

there. So it adds things that

23:53

change between rounds, quote,

23:58

unquote, I mean, this game

23:58

doesn't exactly have rounds. But

24:00

like I said earlier, those inns

24:00

kind of split that up into

24:03

rounds. But there are 17

24:03

different effects. I didn't want

24:06

to go and list them all. If

24:06

you're interested. Go look it

24:10

up. That being said, there is

24:10

one other expansion or add on

24:14

I'm very excited about talking

24:14

about there was a Felicia Day

24:19

promo card. That is a character

24:19

card that you can choose at the

24:23

beginning of the game. It was

24:23

only available at a German game

24:27

convention in 2014. So

24:27

unfortunately, they can't get

24:31

it. But I love Felicia Day and

24:31

she's in a lot of board games,

24:35

actually.

24:35

Yeah, this is the second

24:35

time we've seen a Felicia Day

24:39

promo card.

24:40

She just become like the

24:40

female geek queen of Earth,

24:44

I guess. No. I mean, I

24:44

know that she's on Wil Wheaton

24:48

tabletop show on YouTube. So

24:48

yeah, she

24:52

was also in the guild and

24:52

wrote the guild. And it was

24:55

incredible and it makes me cry.

24:55

That was before I played WoW

25:00

too. So like, that's saying

25:00

something. I watched all of that

25:04

before ever playing. Wow. Hmm.

25:04

Okay. Wow. Wow.

25:10

Wow.

25:13

Anyways, now we want to

25:13

talk about the Board Game Geek

25:16

ratings. So this game is

25:16

actually rated only at a seven

25:19

point O of 23,000 reviews. The

25:19

board game rank overall is 632

25:25

of all games on Board Game Geek.

25:25

So that's a pretty high rating

25:29

overall, considering there are

25:29

10s or hundreds of 1000s of

25:33

games on there. That being said,

25:33

7.0 doesn't feel super high for

25:37

this game. I kind of anticipated

25:37

the higher rating,

25:40

as did I know what would

25:40

you guys give it out of 10?

25:44

I'd give it an EIGHT. I

25:44

think I was gonna say as well.

25:47

Yeah. Because it's a nice, like,

25:47

fast paced game. Like he kind of

25:52

just relaxed through it. Like

25:52

it's not crazy mind bending.

25:56

Yeah, I also gave it an

25:56

EIGHT. I immediately wanted to

25:59

play it again. That's like, you

25:59

know, what I use as a basis for

26:02

my writing.

26:03

That's a good system. I

26:03

mean, I agree. It's, it is very

26:07

quick. And I think that also

26:07

goes into that like wanting to

26:10

play it again, it doesn't take

26:10

you two hours to get through it.

26:13

Right? You have time to do that.

26:13

Like, okay, you've got to your

26:16

destination. Now let's play

26:16

again, where you turn around and

26:19

you go back the other way,

26:19

right? Yeah, that's a good idea,

26:21

too. I think it's probably a

26:21

7.0. Because it's a little bit

26:26

on the lighter side weight wise,

26:26

it does not have as much

26:30

complexity to it as a lot of

26:30

other games. And my theory is

26:35

that the people who go on to

26:35

BoardGameGeek, and rank these

26:38

things are the type of people

26:38

who are looking for more medium

26:42

weight or heavyweight games.

26:42

Yeah,

26:44

so the Crossroads

26:44

expansion is rated at 7.5 of

26:49

2300 reviews. And the matsuri is

26:49

only been rated 839 times, but

26:55

it is rated 7.4. So I feel like

26:55

when you add them more

26:58

complexity, you aren't getting a

26:58

higher rating. All right,

27:01

I think it's time to go

27:01

into our rating section. So the

27:06

first rating that we have is

27:06

easy versus difficult. That's

27:09

basically like, How many times

27:09

do you have to go back to the

27:12

rulebook and look up something?

27:12

How many times do you have to,

27:16

you know, consult or clarify or

27:16

something doesn't quite make

27:20

sense to ask Emma and silly to

27:20

go first, and give this a rating

27:26

between one and 10. All righty,

27:30

I gave it a six out of 10.

27:30

I picked it up very quickly,

27:33

which is saying a lot because I

27:33

struggle with instructions and

27:37

any kind of order. And it did

27:37

take me a while to get to the

27:41

point where I fully understood

27:41

that I had to track other's

27:46

movements and sort of plan ahead

27:46

because I lacked any kind of

27:48

foresight. And there was a few

27:48

times where we had to consult

27:51

the rules. And though they are

27:51

easy to understand, we did have

27:54

to go back to them a few times. So I had to knock off a few points there. So I gave it a

27:56

five out of 10. I think although

27:59

it is pretty straightforward. I

27:59

think, like, say a kid under the

28:04

age of 12 would kind of struggle

28:04

with this. So took off points

28:09

just like nitpicky there, five

28:09

out of 10. Overall,

28:12

that's fair. I think I'll

28:12

give it a four. The base concept

28:17

is very linear, like you just

28:17

move to the place you do the

28:20

action. And you get the points

28:20

in that so that we didn't have

28:24

to look the rules a couple of

28:24

times while we were playing all

28:26

four of us together. But I feel

28:26

like like with any game with

28:30

instructions, like if we played

28:30

it 100 times, we would have it

28:33

memorized, you know, so I feel

28:33

like they're not complex rules.

28:37

But there are definitely rules

28:37

where like, You got to kind of

28:40

remind yourself so before,

28:43

I think the thing that

28:43

is most difficult is just

28:47

figuring out what some of the

28:47

symbols represent. Yes, that was

28:51

mostly what we had to go back to

28:51

the rulebook and look up is

28:55

like, oh, you know, I got this

28:55

encounter card, and it doesn't

28:58

have any words on it, it's just

28:58

the entire interaction, or the

29:02

entire effect is described in

29:02

symbols. And if it's not

29:06

completely clear from the

29:06

beginning, then you have to go

29:08

into the rulebook and find that

29:08

and see what that actually is

29:11

supposed to do. I'm going to

29:11

agree with Tilly, I think and

29:14

give it a four.

29:16

I was gonna give it a

29:16

three. Before everyone said it

29:19

was higher than that. Three, I

29:19

was gonna give the three because

29:24

I've only played this game one

29:24

other time, months ago. And I

29:29

remember pretty much how to play

29:29

the game. There are a couple of

29:33

things like the symbols that you

29:33

need to look up. But even that

29:36

it can be sort of intuitive. So

29:36

like your card, Rachel starting

29:40

character had the symbol of two

29:40

encounters with a question mark

29:44

between them. And just looking

29:44

at that, as I said, Oh, that's

29:47

you get to draw two and keep one

29:47

and discard the other. And we

29:52

went looked it up and that's what that meant.

29:54

See, I found that the

29:54

question mark was confusing,

29:56

like I feel like there are other

29:56

more common ways To depict,

30:01

like, draw to pick one. And I

30:01

don't know, like a slash would

30:06

have been used to like represent

30:06

or this or that. I don't know, I

30:10

feel like there was a better way

30:10

to depict that.

30:13

I don't know. I thought it

30:13

was sort of intuitive. Maybe I'm

30:16

the crazy one.

30:18

Apparently you're on the

30:18

same wavelength as the people

30:20

who made the rules. So it's all

30:20

good.

30:23

Antoine Bauza and I are on

30:23

the same page.

30:29

Would you happen to be Japanese? Jake? No, I am not at all.

30:34

There it goes my theory.

30:36

I wish.

30:38

All right. Next is

30:38

simple versus complex. This is

30:42

basically what kind of

30:42

strategies do you have available

30:46

to you in this game, a more

30:46

complex game has more

30:50

strategies. If this is confusing

30:50

at all, in comparison to easy

30:55

versus difficult, we'd like to

30:55

use the example of chess, chess

30:59

is an easy to learn game,

30:59

because there's only so many

31:02

pieces, and each piece has its

31:02

specific move that it does. But

31:06

it's an incredibly complex game,

31:06

because there is a huge variety

31:11

of strategy that you can bring

31:11

to it. And so what do you guys

31:15

think this is a 10 would be like

31:15

the most complex game that you

31:20

have ever

31:21

experienced. I feel like

31:21

I'm gonna go with a six on this.

31:25

Because although there are

31:25

different strategies that you

31:28

can use, and like I said,

31:28

there's the different characters

31:31

that have different abilities.

31:31

So it's different right off the

31:35

bat, like you start each game

31:35

with a different strategy in

31:37

mind, as is. But then as the

31:37

game progresses, it changes

31:41

because other people take some

31:41

of the like bonus things, so you

31:44

kind of have to readjust. So

31:44

it's not extremely complex, but

31:49

it's complex enough that you do

31:49

have to pay attention. So I'll

31:53

give it a solid six,

31:55

I would like to second to

31:55

that. I will also give it a six

31:57

out of 10 for all the same

31:57

reasons you just listed. And I

32:01

found it to be deceivingly.

32:01

Strategic, like for such a

32:06

simple game, I mean, comparing

32:06

it to chess is not far off. I

32:10

mean, on the base level, you're

32:10

just going across this track.

32:13

However, there's things like the

32:13

different players involved.

32:16

There's things like what you're

32:16

trying to accomplish, there's a

32:19

lot of different strategies you

32:19

can pick and choose from. And

32:22

some of them pay off highly

32:22

other ones are the bather

32:25

achievements, which are just

32:25

fun. Yeah,

32:31

I think I'm gonna give

32:31

this a four on the strategy.

32:36

Just because after doing this

32:36

for a while, we've played many

32:39

games, and you start to kind of

32:39

compare the complexity of this

32:42

game to the next game. And we

32:42

have played far more complex

32:46

games. And so a 10, for us would

32:46

be something that is, you know,

32:50

probably something that you guys

32:50

wouldn't be interested in, or,

32:52

you know, like, yes, so just

32:52

kind of based on my experiences

32:58

with other games, where this

32:58

falls is a four. But I think

33:02

it's really good that we have

33:02

you guys on here as kind of like

33:04

new baby gamers.

33:06

We are baby gamers for sure.

33:09

Like, it's really good

33:09

for new listeners, and like

33:12

people who are just getting into

33:12

board games to hear what this

33:15

is, from your perspective,

33:15

rather than from the perspective

33:18

of more experienced gamers.

33:20

May I ask what the most

33:20

complex game you guys have

33:23

played is dominant species.

33:27

It could be dominant

33:27

species. This is a game where

33:30

you are playing like these

33:30

various types of animals in like

33:35

at the beginning of an ice age.

33:35

So like you can be spiders or

33:39

snakes or birds, or like you're

33:39

playing a species of animals and

33:43

you're attempting to survive the

33:43

Ice Age basically by migrating

33:48

and doing all kinds of other

33:48

things. And there's just a lot a

33:53

lot going on and a lot to keep

33:53

track of. But I'm not convinced

33:57

that's the most complex

33:59

I think the most according

33:59

to board game geeks weight

34:02

system is spirit Island.

34:02

Dominant Species is weighted at

34:07

a 4.0 for Spirit Island is

34:07

weighted at a 4.05

34:13

Okay, spirit Island is a

34:13

game that we will definitely one

34:18

day do an episode on.

34:19

I'm not kidding doesn't

34:19

even feel that. Well, it's

34:23

complex. But I feel like

34:23

dominant species is worse

34:28

because dominance per case, I'm

34:28

gonna digress here real quick.

34:33

Dominant Species is a

34:33

competitive game where you're

34:35

fighting against each other to

34:35

win spirit island you are

34:38

working together. That being

34:38

said, the more people you have

34:41

in spirit Island, the harder it

34:41

gets, not only does the game get

34:45

harder, but now you have three

34:45

different people to juggle

34:49

abilities between.

34:51

I can't imagine playing

34:51

that game with four players like

34:53

it would be impossible. Well,

34:53

because we're sitting here

34:57

trying to optimize our turns.

34:57

Well, I can do this And you can

35:00

do that. And we're like trying

35:00

to figure out how we can protect

35:03

this island together. And it's

35:03

difficult playing with Jake,

35:08

because he's talking about what

35:08

he's going to do three turns

35:10

from now. And I'm like, no. What

35:10

are we doing now? Right now?

35:16

Now, it doesn't matter anymore.

35:18

Yeah, I'll just bet I

35:18

figured it out. I've already

35:20

figured.

35:22

But anyway, Jake, you

35:22

have to give this game Tokaido

35:26

rating on simple versus complex,

35:28

I think I would land this

35:28

smack dab in the middle of five.

35:33

Okay, because there's definite

35:33

strategy involved into when you

35:38

get to the inn, like when you

35:38

want to get there first, and

35:41

when you don't want to get there

35:41

first. And what you are doing in

35:45

between those ends. And I think,

35:45

especially if you had the

35:49

Matsuri expansion, that would

35:49

change things drastically. Okay.

35:55

Lastly, we have rote

35:55

versus random. So this is just

36:00

how random is the game are there

36:00

you know, a lot of elements like

36:05

cards and dice and things that

36:05

really just make the game super

36:10

random. And that would be a 10

36:10

verses, you know, rote is like,

36:15

if you had a one on this scale,

36:15

it would be the same exact game

36:19

every time you played.

36:21

I feel like I was gonna

36:21

say four, but I think three, so

36:24

you don't feel like it's very

36:24

random. Not supremely No, I

36:29

think, like, it's definitely

36:29

random in the sense, like, your

36:31

opponents are always going to do

36:31

something different every time.

36:34

But like, the only really random

36:34

part is the character that you

36:38

get at the beginning, which sort

36:38

of dictates how you're going to

36:42

play the rest of the game. So I

36:42

feel like there is opportunity

36:47

for randomness and differences,

36:47

sort of right off the bat, but

36:51

like, the bulk of the game

36:51

remains fairly similar.

36:54

I feel like it is the

36:54

opposite. Like the bulk of the

36:59

game is random. But there are a

36:59

few components that remain the

37:02

same, such as the track you're

37:02

following, it's the same every

37:04

time, you can add other elements

37:04

that change it up, you can add

37:08

expansions, but for the most

37:08

part, it's the same. And what's

37:11

different is yes, the characters

37:11

that you can choose from the

37:13

beginning. Also, there's

37:13

randomization in the cards, you

37:17

don't know what kind of cards

37:17

you're gonna get, particularly

37:20

at the bathhouse, you can get

37:20

one or two victory points, you

37:23

don't know which ones you're

37:23

gonna get, when you go to the

37:25

merchants, the stores, you don't

37:25

know what items you're gonna

37:28

get, when you go to the ends,

37:28

you don't know what kind of food

37:30

you're gonna get. So I find that

37:30

there is a little more

37:34

randomization, I gave it a five,

37:34

I know it's not much higher than

37:37

Tilly. But I did have to add a

37:37

few points just for those

37:41

elements.

37:42

I agree with you, I'm

37:42

going to put it right smack dab

37:44

in the middle of five, because

37:44

of exactly what you said, like

37:48

there's a lot of cards that are

37:48

randomized, and that affects

37:52

your ability to, you know, for

37:52

example, with the souvenirs,

37:56

that completely affects your

37:56

ability to gain the sets, right,

38:00

you may get terribly unlucky.

38:00

And just keep getting the same

38:05

two types of souvenirs and never

38:05

see the other ones for some

38:08

reason, that's a possibility.

38:08

Same thing with like the meals,

38:12

you could get really unlucky and

38:12

get stuck with meals that you've

38:15

already had, and are unable to

38:15

purchase what's remaining at the

38:20

end. Although that goes back to

38:20

strategy a little bit, you know,

38:24

you might want to be the first

38:24

one to get to the end so that

38:26

you have that first choice. But

38:26

you know, all of that is, is

38:30

still randomized. So I agree,

38:30

I'm putting it at a five,

38:35

I am going to put it at

38:35

probably three, because the

38:44

number of cards is kind of

38:44

limited. Your track never

38:48

changes unless you take one of

38:48

those variants and change it

38:52

yourself. I don't feel like

38:52

there's a whole lot of

38:55

randomized elements to this

38:55

game, other than the cards that

38:58

you're drawing, because Rachel

38:58

and I have had this argument

39:02

before I wanted to, but per

39:02

Rachel, you are not allowed to

39:07

consider another player's

39:07

actions as random.

39:11

Yes, I heard that episode

39:11

and kept that in mind. And

39:14

purposely did not say anything

39:14

about the strategy adding to the

39:18

randomization.

39:21

I think it's a three.

39:23

Okay, what if we allowed

39:23

other players actions to be

39:26

considered random you would get?

39:26

They would be a five.

39:29

I would say that would make it like a six

39:31

six for you six for me,

39:31

too. But we're playing by the

39:34

rules here.

39:35

Maybe we need to open

39:35

this up to our listeners at some

39:38

point and see what they think

39:38

since Jake keeps bringing it up

39:41

as like some hard fast rule that

39:41

I set that makes no sense at

39:45

all.

39:46

I feel like simply in the

39:46

in the way you guys do this

39:50

ranking like the easy versus

39:50

difficult and the simple versus

39:52

complex and then wrote versus

39:52

random. I feel like strategy is

39:55

more involved in the complexity

39:55

rather than the randomness

40:00

Absolutely, that's where

40:00

strategy is meant to be in the

40:04

simple versus complex. And so

40:04

yeah, that's where we're talking

40:07

about players actions.

40:07

Absolutely. I agree.

40:10

Random would be like the

40:10

functions of the game itself,

40:14

regardless of what the players

40:14

are doing. Yes. Also, that is

40:18

hilarious.

40:21

It's a slight

40:21

technicality, I suppose.

40:25

All right, Emma and Tilly,

40:25

now's the time to answer the

40:28

question. Would you rather play

40:28

Tokaido over having your laptop

40:32

commit un alive before trying to

40:32

record this episode, as well as

40:36

having a bunch of other

40:36

technical issues?

40:39

A million times Yes. Yeah. I

40:40

feel like it's pretty safe to say yeah.

40:43

Yes, it is a very fun

40:43

day. Especially if we can do it

40:46

on Tabletop Simulator and flip

40:49

tables. I can flick some

40:49

some pieces, I'm happy

40:53

that even more so yes.

40:56

I do want to say like,

40:56

I'm hard on Tabletop Simulator,

40:59

because Jake drives me crazy

40:59

with it. But it is a fantastic

41:03

way to play board games with

41:03

people that are not local to

41:07

you. So if you are brand new to

41:07

board games, and you don't know

41:11

what this is, go check it out.

41:11

It's like $20 on steam at full

41:15

price. And it's very often on

41:15

sale. And so you go on there.

41:19

And then you get access to all

41:19

of these little workshop add ons

41:23

that you can add for free. A lot

41:23

of the games are scripted. So

41:27

you don't need to do as much

41:27

work in like the setup, quote,

41:31

unquote. It's a great way to

41:31

play games with people who are

41:35

not local, and Emma and Tilly

41:35

are not even in the same country

41:39

as us. But we're able to play

41:39

board games together. Yes, we

41:43

are from the great white north

41:43

eh yeah, this episode may not

41:47

have been possible without board

41:47

game simulator. So we do Oh,

41:50

it's a lot.

41:52

I've heard of the

41:52

tabletop simulator. And I'd also

41:56

like seen it, like in video, but

41:56

actually like navigating it

42:00

using the keyboard, mouse and

42:00

all that it was it was pretty

42:04

user friendly, I would say. Agreed.

42:07

Well, I'm glad you guys

42:07

had a good time with it. All

42:09

right. So there you have it.

42:09

That is Tokaido. Thank you

42:12

everybody so much for listening.

42:12

As always, you can hit us up on

42:16

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42:16

at so bored podcast. That's S O

42:21

Bo, AR D we'd love to hear from

42:21

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42:26

have or fun experiences that you

42:26

have playing this game. You'll

42:29

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42:29

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42:33

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42:33

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42:36

feel like doing it on social

42:36

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42:39

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42:46

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42:58

which we are just getting done

43:02

with right now.

43:03

So yeah,

43:05

let's keep this going. I

43:05

want to thank Emma and Tilly

43:08

again, as well for joining guys.

43:08

Feel free to go ahead and plug

43:13

your show and tell us all about it again,

43:15

for sure. It was an

43:15

absolute pleasure being on the

43:18

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43:18

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43:22

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43:22

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43:25

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43:25

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43:28

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43:31

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43:31

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43:35

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43:35

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43:38

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43:38

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43:42

the behind the scenes footage.

43:46

All right, yeah. Thank you. Yeah,

43:47

thank you.

43:49

We also want to thank a&t

43:49

podcast management for editing

43:51

this episode. They are

43:51

professional podcast editors and

43:55

can be found at a n t hyphen,

43:55

podcast management.com. We also

44:00

want to thank Mitchell Mims, the

44:00

designer of our art. He is

44:03

currently accepting commissions

44:03

so go check him out at m i s c.

44:06

O S Ara on Instagram or on his

44:06

website, Mitchell Mims. That's

44:11

mi ch e l m i m s dot c AR ar

44:11

d.co. We are once again

44:17

streaming every Wednesday

44:17

evening on Twitch. We start

44:21

anywhere between 530 and seven

44:21

Pacific time. And we go for

44:25

about two or three hours

44:25

usually. But we stream all sorts

44:28

of board games on there. You can

44:28

find that at twitch.tv/snowboard

44:32

podcast. And I'm also on Twitch.

44:32

I'm going to be streaming a

44:36

bunch of retro games soon at

44:36

twitch.tv/nau. ght UI D o c 541.

44:43

Right. And once again,

44:43

make sure you go and listen to

44:46

the most recent episode of The

44:46

Geek squares show where we are

44:49

debating who is the best Batman.

44:49

It's fun. It's good. It's a good

44:54

time.

44:55

Yes, spoiler alert. We

44:55

talked about the nipples.

44:58

Oh no. The Bat nipple I

44:58

can't talk about that again.

45:05

Thanks, everybody for listening and we'll see you next time.

45:08

i Bye bye