0:00

Amy, on this podcast, we try

0:02

to always offer useful takeaways. And

0:05

if you learn nothing else from

0:07

us, learn this useful parenting lesson

0:10

by Pampers Cruisers Pampers

0:12

Cruisers 360 are the ultimate parent hack,

0:14

the best diaper to use as soon

0:16

as your baby starts standing or walking.

0:19

Instead of ordinary diaper tabs, they have a unique

0:21

360 degree stretchy waistband that moves

0:25

with your wild child. Pampers Cruisers

0:27

360 makes it so easy to

0:29

change your baby. Who probably

0:32

doesn't stop moving just because they need

0:34

a diaper changed? Just slide

0:36

on to apply and away they go.

0:38

And fear not parents, Pampers Cruisers 360

0:40

offers an up to 100% leak free

0:42

fit and they just

0:45

got even better with a new

0:47

blowout barrier. Need we say more?

0:49

For trusted protection, trust Pampers, the

0:52

number one pediatrician recommended brand. Download

0:54

the Pampers Club app today and

0:56

earn Pampers cash. Then

0:58

redeem your Pampers cash for

1:00

exclusive Pampers coupons, savings and

1:02

rewards. Only redeemable via Pampers

1:04

Club. Pampers cash has no cash value.

1:09

I don't wake up looking for innovation. I like my

1:11

bread and my peanut butter on it. That's

1:14

what I like. What fresh hell.

1:17

Laughing in the face of motherhood. If I'm at

1:19

a restaurant or something, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm

1:21

vegetarian. I don't know because I'll have any old

1:23

mushy pasta than salmon. With Margaret Aples and

1:25

Amy Wilson. You have to let kids make their

1:27

own choices to a certain degree, but parameters

1:30

around it makes sense. A podcast

1:32

that solves today's parenting dilemmas so

1:34

you don't have to. New Food

1:36

Wednesday becomes regular Tuesday. Hello

1:42

everyone and welcome to What Fresh Hell? Laughing

1:44

in the face of motherhood. This is Margaret.

1:47

And this is Amy. This week we're going

1:49

to talk about picky eaters. We

1:51

have talked about picky eaters on

1:53

the podcast before, but we realized

1:56

that that was our first ever

1:58

episode of the show. the podcast.

2:00

Episode one, yes, picky eaters. It's something

2:03

that people ask us a lot about

2:05

and it's totally worth a revisit. I

2:07

did ask Margaret at some point giving

2:10

an update on my picky eaters and

2:12

so that's also in the feed but

2:14

this Amy, I'm going to blow your

2:16

mind because we talk about our

2:19

own kids and their eating habits

2:21

in this episode. How old was

2:23

your oldest kid when this episode

2:25

was recorded? In this time capsule,

2:27

I mean it's from 2016 to

2:29

eight years ago, my oldest was 13. 13

2:32

years old, you blew my mind. You're like, well,

2:34

my 13 year old. I'm like, holy

2:36

cow, it's been a long road.

2:38

Wow, and that was the big

2:40

one. We've been walking these lonely

2:43

streets all these years.

2:45

Yeah, that 13 year old now drives,

2:48

can go to a bar if he wants

2:50

to. Yeah, it's a long time. Amy, I'm

2:52

going to read you a direct quote from

2:54

that episode. Are you ready? Yes. I

2:57

wish so much that

2:59

I could look into the future

3:01

and know that this all works

3:03

out okay. Like if I could look 10

3:05

years down the road into the future and

3:08

know it's okay, I wouldn't have to worry

3:10

so much about it. Who said that you

3:12

or me? Me and I was like beating

3:15

myself up in this episode. I'm like,

3:17

and I will say I certainly have

3:19

some of my own

3:22

issues around food, which I've discussed on the

3:24

podcast. I consider myself in some

3:27

ways to be a picky eater, which

3:29

I find to be one of my like

3:32

worst qualities. And

3:34

it's something that I've

3:36

definitely in my

3:39

family, I guess I'm a more difficult eater.

3:41

I have a lot of issues around this

3:43

episode. And I was listening to like baby

3:45

Margaret and I just wanted to be like,

3:48

sweetheart, relax. So if you are baby Margaret

3:50

right now, I am literally

3:52

wow, is that the

3:54

wrong? You should have the word

3:56

literally. I am figuratively reaching

3:58

through the microphone. and

4:00

like putting my arms around you to give

4:03

you a gigantic calming

4:05

hug and say it's

4:07

not all gonna be alright it's not

4:09

gonna work out perfectly but like

4:12

everything else it's going

4:14

to be different I have told the story

4:16

on the podcast before about

4:18

a friend of mine from college

4:20

who gave me life-changing advice which is that

4:22

she had snuck somewhere away that she was

4:25

not supposed to be in high school I

4:27

believe with a boy gone to like some

4:29

house maybe her grandma's house probably to you

4:31

know I'm sure sit and say

4:34

prayers while they held hands on the

4:36

couch and she had locked

4:38

the keys to the car in the

4:40

car and so she's like where she's

4:42

not supposed to be she's made this

4:45

huge mistake she sits down on

4:47

the sidewalk and she's like she said that

4:49

thing that she kept saying is like this

4:51

is going to end at some point this

4:53

is going to be different at some point

4:55

like I am NOT always going to be

4:57

sitting here dreading this moment and I kept

5:00

coming back to me listening to

5:02

this episode and thinking wow it

5:05

really did turn out just like that I

5:07

will say that food and what my kids

5:09

eat at the time we recorded that episode

5:11

I would say was occupying roughly 79% of

5:14

my bandwidth yeah and I would

5:17

estimate that today it occupies about

5:19

4% of my bandwidth

5:21

and that's the best thing I can say

5:23

to people that's good that's done more than

5:26

a 90% react can you set the table

5:28

for what was happening in 2016 in

5:30

this episode you had a picky eater how

5:32

picky why was it taking up 79% of your

5:34

bandwidth I can and I will my children

5:36

let me knock your socks off for a

5:39

minute were seven

5:42

five and four so meal

5:44

times were hellacious they

5:46

were what fresh hell

5:49

every night for some different

5:51

what reheated hell what

5:53

like reheated or even worse

5:56

What hellacious think have I

5:58

put maximum. For towards

6:00

to be greeted by literal

6:03

like shouts of dismayed. Skiers.

6:06

I'd. Recriminations That's a good use of

6:08

the word literal that was literal sense

6:10

of dismissed as an emerald tears one

6:13

of my kids. I have realized. Has

6:15

some sensory stuff that defines a

6:17

lot of aspects of things for

6:19

this child. I talked a

6:21

lot about picky eating and like oh,

6:23

it was part of a larger constellation

6:26

of things that are going on and

6:28

is I didn't really see those things

6:30

as clearly then as I do now

6:32

and it. Food was

6:34

a problem for real

6:36

reasons. And it's.

6:39

It's. Totally fine and I think

6:41

I saw my kids do not

6:43

eat a roomba. But the

6:46

other day this is my big win. Would like

6:48

to simply them sir will seem insane. We got

6:50

take out to portray and I was like sitting

6:52

around watching three of my kids just eat. like

6:54

to pull like. If

6:56

you told me that picture what exists.

6:59

Nine. Years ago I would have been

7:01

like that's insane like one of my

7:03

kids, only it's very plain past us.

7:05

One of my kids would never even

7:08

be able to smell support. Lady who no

7:10

less be the same room with it. Yes,

7:12

things have evolved so

7:14

much and to do

7:16

my kids now. Are

7:19

they like mother might to pass the Brussels

7:21

sprouts for? And do they. Are my

7:23

favorites? No. Kids who

7:25

were very good eaters then have

7:27

different issues Now different things go

7:30

on with food throughout your life

7:32

ends. And gonna spoil the ending.

7:35

I. Think the best thing that we did

7:37

this around food was make it the

7:39

least interesting thing happening at the table.

7:41

Family. Conversation enjoy was the

7:43

purpose of meal time. We can

7:46

dig in a lot on what

7:48

that looks like and what that

7:50

means, but. Looking. Back if

7:52

a could have reached back

7:54

through the microphone and told.

7:56

Baby Margaret. One thing I would have

7:59

said you're doing the most important thing

8:01

which is filling your household with a

8:03

generalized. Feeling of like caretaking.

8:06

And happiness And the food

8:08

stuff will work and positivity

8:10

around mealtime. And said of fear

8:12

and an apprehension and citing and

8:14

writ large I think your kids

8:16

will remember. These errors as like we

8:19

did a lot of singing and dancing

8:21

and driving and go to the zoo

8:23

and seem cool stuff since having a

8:25

lot of fun. and last and they're

8:27

not time of her male time that

8:29

much and I think I probably could

8:31

have done things better in. Terms

8:34

of always offering.

8:36

May. Be wider range. Is and stuff

8:38

but he quit sli happens is

8:41

that your kids. Turn out to be the

8:43

kind of eater that you are. And

8:45

like Spoiler Alert this is the

8:47

podcast. I think about having re

8:50

read my journals at one point

8:52

from like. Four. Years span.

8:54

And I was in a relationship and every

8:56

other page was dismissing the exact. Same thing

8:58

about the relationship again and again for

9:01

four years straight And. Like how

9:03

I didn't realize. That I was reading

9:05

the same thing every two days. But like

9:07

the podcast version of that is, your kids

9:09

are gonna turn out like you. So

9:11

when I have this first episode I

9:13

didn't me listen but I remember at

9:15

the time so my oldest kid. Was.

9:18

A picky eater and the family. and

9:20

and I assume because I think this

9:22

is what happened in real life. By

9:24

the time my oldest was about thirteen,

9:26

he was moving out of that states.

9:28

And Iran are you being like was like

9:31

what's the secret Oh my gosh, I literally

9:33

was like tell me your ways. amy i

9:35

need to know what you did this and

9:37

this was a kid who just a set

9:39

the table from for where this to had

9:41

been was just again like a sensitive kit

9:43

and other ways to which i think you're

9:46

right to underline that like didn't like tags

9:48

and close pants had to be soft you

9:50

know that kind of stuff and that kid

9:52

would eat like for foods and then five

9:54

foods and then penny but not rigatoni and

9:56

this kind of role but not that and

9:58

of rule and You know, there were

10:01

many years of that and then slowly with

10:03

I think I'll skip to the

10:05

ending for me. I think the key is

10:07

you don't worry about it but you don't

10:09

ignore it, right? Like not freaking out about

10:11

it doesn't mean never put

10:13

any thought into it. It's like you

10:15

help them, you encourage them, you put different

10:18

foods in front of them. There are things you

10:20

can do to keep it from getting worse certainly

10:22

but worrying about it is not really one of

10:24

them. And this kid's case as

10:27

they reached puberty started going into,

10:30

you know, growing quickly and then

10:32

went to a camp without us

10:34

for a couple of weeks where dinner was

10:36

dinner and that was

10:38

I wouldn't recommend it for everybody but for this

10:40

kid that did the trick nicely. Like oh, I

10:43

do like enchiladas and again like enchiladas that was

10:45

not my wildest dreams that I think this kid

10:47

would ever eat enchiladas. Well they

10:49

did when that's all there was at this camp

10:51

and there were peers and there were cool 20-year-olds

10:53

saying the enchiladas were delicious like all sorts of

10:56

things I couldn't provide at home. And what

10:58

I think looking back and

11:00

re-listening to the episode really jumped out

11:02

at me is that one

11:05

always makes choices in one's

11:07

home about what their preferences

11:09

are and then the variables

11:12

are different children that come into

11:14

those choices. And what

11:17

I'm saying is this,

11:19

I certainly have

11:21

kids who have a lot

11:24

of anxiety around food. I remember being

11:26

that kid, I remember having

11:28

those anxieties. I

11:31

then make a choice that

11:34

I choose peace over

11:36

anxiety at mealtime which

11:39

may mean you don't have

11:41

to try the food that

11:43

grandma just made. And

11:46

if you don't like it, I'm

11:48

going to allow you to try the plain option

11:51

of that item even if

11:53

it means that at my

11:55

table someone says, I Can't

11:57

believe your kids don't eat what they're served. Let

12:00

me years. Shane Ray. I

12:02

can make my own choices about

12:04

how we conduct ourselves around. Food

12:07

is. Even. If other people

12:09

don't agree with this races and I think

12:11

that when I listen to Baby Margaret I

12:13

just hear so much of like I want

12:16

to do the right thing and I want

12:18

everyone else to do the right thing it's

12:20

and then when asked evidence to tell me

12:22

that I'm doing the right thing, my kids

12:25

changed a lot. In eight Nine Years,

12:27

but also Margaret said psyllid. And

12:29

Eight Nine Years. Of like oh,

12:31

we've actually made a choice. To.

12:35

Alleviate. Anxiety on this score that you

12:37

may or may not agree with and listen

12:39

may or may not be the right choice,

12:41

but that's what we're doing and what I'm

12:43

seeing in the big picture is kids who

12:46

have enough nutrition probably could use to eat

12:48

a little bit more vegetables. I could I

12:50

used to it more vegetables. As a kid

12:52

I really like vegetables. Now I eat a

12:54

lot of the my order them at every

12:56

meal. Six it's fine I have chosen were

12:59

on the spectrum. Of anxiety

13:01

to. New. Foods: I

13:03

want to live there and I just

13:05

personally. Feel much more comfortable with it as a

13:08

choice. Also I ever thought about anxiety around foods

13:10

and the solicit would close underlies it. Can we

13:12

take with an all time I think this list

13:14

to it. Margaret. Exciting

13:16

news! I am about to have

13:18

a new baby nephew and believe

13:20

it or not, this will be

13:22

my. Thirteenth Nessie Amy, you're ready

13:24

to give up. Your amateur status your

13:27

throw and said is effortless. Our family

13:29

a seen a lot of babies and

13:31

as soon as they start standing or

13:33

walking I send them all a whole

13:35

lot of pampers. Cruisers: Three Sixty

13:37

Pampers Cruisers Three. Sixty don't

13:39

have ordinary diaper tabs, instead

13:41

they have the unique three

13:43

hundred and sixty degree stress

13:45

you he spent set moves

13:47

with your. Newly mole by a little

13:50

one peppers. cruisers three sixty offer a gap

13:52

free sit that is up to one hundred

13:54

percent leak proof crucial once your baby is

13:56

quite literally up and adam and that gap

13:58

free sit ups for the your baby

14:00

from taking off their diaper, a habit

14:02

you do not want them to get

14:05

into. You can say that again. And

14:07

Pampers Cruiser's 360 just got even

14:09

better. With a new blowout barrier,

14:11

need we even elaborate on the

14:13

need for that, friends? For Trusted

14:16

Protection Trust Pampers, the number one

14:18

pediatrician recommended brand. Download the Pampers

14:20

Club app today and earn Pampers

14:22

cash. Then redeem your Pampers cash

14:25

for exclusive Pampers coupon savings

14:27

and rewards. Only redeemable via

14:29

Pampers Club. Pampers cash has

14:31

no cash value. Hello,

14:33

Hellions. You know we listen to a

14:35

lot of podcasts that are in our own. And

14:37

today we want to tell you about a

14:40

podcast that really speaks to us and will

14:42

speak to any parent of a child with

14:44

special education needs. The podcast is called Understood

14:46

Explains. This season of the show is hosted

14:48

by teacher and special education expert

14:50

Juliana Otubay. And it's

14:53

all about how to navigate individual

14:55

education plans also known as IEPs.

14:57

The latest season of Understood Explains

14:59

covers topics like how to tell

15:01

if your child needs an IEP

15:03

and it busts common myths about

15:05

special education. One of my kids

15:07

has an IEP and I found

15:09

this podcast so validating and so

15:11

helpful. I feel better equipped to

15:13

advocate for my child's educational

15:15

needs now. This podcast is helpful

15:17

for parents in many different situations whether your

15:20

child already has an IEP or you're just

15:22

starting to wonder if they might need extra

15:24

support in the classroom. Juliana has content for

15:26

kids of all ages and for kids who

15:28

are learning English as an additional language as

15:30

well. To listen to Understood Explains, search

15:33

for Understood Explains in your

15:35

podcast app. That's Understood Explains.

15:39

So I think I have a slightly different take but

15:41

it's probably coming to the same place which

15:44

is that anxiety around food is not

15:46

worth it and certainly at your table

15:48

is not worth it and fighting is

15:50

not worth it and right and all

15:52

of that. On the other hand what

15:54

we know about anxiety is you can't

15:56

reduce or address anxiety by accommodating it

15:58

right that if it's legal. I only

16:00

eat blueberries, like okay, you only eat blueberries but

16:02

if you then only, if you have

16:04

a six-year-old only eat blueberries and you only

16:07

ever serve or present or make available blueberries

16:09

then you will have a seven-year-old who only eats blueberries. You

16:11

have to and then they'll be like, but I don't like

16:13

that kind of blueberries, right? This one looks wrinkled or whatever.

16:15

And the other thing I was going to say about anxiety

16:18

is I think nobody who has anxiety

16:20

about anything, food or airplanes or dogs or

16:22

whatever, actually wants to have that anxiety. It's

16:24

not a good feeling. You don't

16:26

want to have it. I'm

16:29

not saying that you're doing this, you

16:31

know, therapy in your home at every meal. That's not what

16:33

you should do. But saying

16:35

like we're just not going to deal because

16:37

it's hard, you're probably not going

16:39

to move them along a way that they do

16:41

want to move along. I'm thinking about my picky

16:43

eater. We would go to a cookout, 4th of

16:46

July and I remember the tears, the tears

16:48

in the car and the way there. Oh, you

16:50

talk about this on the other episode with these

16:52

bun and tomato and ketchup sandwiches. Wait, he needed

16:54

a plan. Like what am I going to eat?

16:56

And I decided that we weren't going to bring

16:58

peanut butter and jelly because he doesn't want to

17:01

do it where we want anymore because he would

17:03

eat rolls, bread and rolls like that category was

17:05

safe. But and I had compassion like

17:07

this kid in his booster seat, Thierry

17:09

concerned what am I going to have for dinner? I'm like,

17:11

well, I think I know there's going to be rolls and

17:14

you like ketchup so you can have ketchup on rolls and then

17:16

we'll see if there's something else you like. For

17:19

me, I felt like that was a good, I was

17:21

accommodating, I was not accommodating his anxiety.

17:23

I was compassionate towards his anxiety. I

17:25

let him know that he was going

17:27

to be safe. There was something he

17:29

could do, but it wasn't like you

17:32

can sit in the car and I'll take you for ice cream

17:34

later because you didn't like anything at the cookout. I just

17:36

feel like there had to be, there's this balance you currently

17:39

have to do to do with

17:41

this, to not let it take over further

17:43

and it's hard to know where to draw

17:45

that. Yeah, I think that's right. But I

17:47

think that just having the conversation around like,

17:49

what am I solving for here? Am I

17:51

solving for keeping people happy?

17:53

But there's clearly too far an

17:56

end of that spectrum, right? Like you don't

17:58

want to just be like. Like it's the

18:00

most important thing is that my kid never

18:02

faced an obstacle and therefore it's

18:05

buttered noodles forever. That's

18:07

not healthy. On the other hand, I

18:10

want to go to this wedding and I know

18:12

that one of my kids is going to cry

18:15

the entire time

18:17

there about the food. And

18:20

I actually kind of want to enjoy

18:22

my let's say sister's wedding. And

18:25

so I am going

18:27

to take food off the table tonight and we're going

18:29

to work at it some other day. It's

18:32

maybe a not today problem. Similarly

18:34

and I still do this with my kids.

18:36

We just had this recently. I

18:38

had a family dinner, lots of generations at the

18:40

table. I said to my kids beforehand and my

18:43

kids are teenagers like find something you

18:45

want to eat on the table. I don't really care what

18:47

it is. Try not to comment on

18:49

the food. I'll keep some a little plainer on the

18:51

side in case you don't like the sauce on it.

18:53

Eat that. That's totally fine with me

18:55

because for me, what I'm

18:58

solving for like what's most important at

19:00

that table is like my kids

19:02

getting the gift of sitting down with like

19:04

three generations at a table, not

19:07

like are you trying the food? I

19:11

don't care if you're trying the food. But

19:13

even getting that three generations at a table,

19:15

that's tricky sometimes with a

19:17

really, really picky eater, restricted

19:20

eater, getting them to sit down

19:22

like you were saying before like if the

19:24

smell of chipotle makes you gag and there

19:26

are kids for whom this is not like

19:28

they're not making that up, even that, even

19:30

sitting at the table and coexisting with food

19:32

is a big step. It's something that I

19:35

think is important but it's not easy. Oh,

19:37

I had this child. Yes, absolutely. A kid

19:39

who, you know, and there's lots of kids

19:41

like it's obvious like every, you know, comedy

19:43

thing you see is like, oh, we

19:45

can't let the food touch and yikes, yikes and

19:47

that kind of thing that kids have. First

19:50

of all, kids don't have a lot of things

19:52

they can control. They can control what they put in

19:54

their mouth. So like there's a reason why control and

19:56

food goes together. It's very normal, makes a lot

19:58

of sense. There are some beloved,

20:01

you know we love them, biological imperatives

20:03

here, right? The kids' food tends to

20:05

get more restrictive as they get into

20:07

motion because in the wild, you

20:09

don't actually want a kid who can walk everywhere and put everything

20:11

in their mouth. So like, a baby puts everything

20:13

in their mouth is different than a three-year-old who

20:16

does because that three-year-old is more likely to

20:18

encounter poison berries, right? Lots

20:20

of different reasons why these are all

20:22

things that reasonably happen. It's

20:26

meeting your kid where they are and then

20:28

helping them to move where they are.

20:30

Like that's the two-pronged thing that we're

20:33

always trying to do. And yes, for

20:36

lots of people, that's

20:38

a kid who's like, can you tolerate

20:40

sitting in a room with someone who's

20:42

eating mustard? I'm not gonna lie, Amy,

20:44

I still struggle with that myself. Like

20:47

if I sit down at a ballpark and a guy

20:49

next to me is eating like a hot dog with

20:51

mustard and ketchup on it, I'm like, this guy has

20:54

ruined my day. I just don't wanna- To me, it's

20:56

the combo. Don't let him sit next to me. The

20:58

combo of ketchup and mustard, keep walking. It's so

21:00

gross to me and like the smell of it

21:02

and I have a lot of my own

21:04

sensitivities around food and smells. My husband

21:07

calls me the super sniffer and

21:09

it's true. I don't

21:11

choose to be around smells I don't

21:13

like. So like, it's, I think food

21:15

can be a great place

21:17

to use our former guest,

21:20

Dr. Becky's good inside starting

21:22

point that like, this

21:24

kid is good inside. They're trying to give

21:26

you their best. But like if

21:28

what you're getting is very difficult,

21:30

like why? Don't start with like,

21:32

it's because they're a bad kid. Like no, they're a

21:34

good kid. Now let's start

21:36

the conversation. And I think that's

21:38

right. They're a kid who wants to be at

21:41

the table with all of us enjoying themselves. What's

21:43

getting in their way of that? And

21:46

then what are the decisions I'm willing to

21:48

make in regard to that? And it's not

21:50

as simple as like they'll eat when they're hungry

21:52

and taste the rainbow. No. That

21:54

being said, I think there are

21:56

some big

21:58

guidelines. that we can

22:01

talk about around mealtime that I think

22:03

are helpful. One of them

22:06

is, think about, in order

22:08

to think about this question of like, what

22:10

is going on at mealtime that is making

22:12

this eating picky, right? I'm

22:15

going to say one

22:17

of the biggest culprits, I think, is dinner

22:19

time. That dinner is

22:22

the meal at which we most often focus

22:24

on like, this is when the family comes

22:26

together, this is when we try these

22:29

foods, this is the meal I

22:31

cooked for three hours, this

22:33

is dinner headline. And

22:36

that dinner can be one of the worst

22:38

times of day to be eating because

22:41

everyone's tired. Everyone's

22:43

at the end of a long day. After school

22:45

restraint collapse has, everyone's had their after school restraint

22:47

collapse. It's

22:50

in full effect, right? There's other stuff they're trying to

22:52

get to. As your

22:54

kids get older, it's homework. As the

22:56

kids are younger, it's often like, okay,

22:58

after dinner is dessert, relax TV, fun

23:01

things. There's a lot working

23:03

against you at dinner time and it's worth

23:05

just clocking that. And the biggest thing that

23:07

is working against you is that

23:10

your kids may not be that hungry. So

23:13

especially young kids who've been at school all

23:15

day, they've had usually like three meals by

23:17

dinner time. They've come home,

23:19

they've had a snack. How

23:21

hungry are they? And

23:23

so think of all of these

23:25

factors that are

23:28

coming together and you're like, now

23:30

it's time to try my delicious

23:32

fishy swas, mustard chicken. And it's

23:34

like, no, I don't want to

23:36

do that. I'm not hungry. It

23:38

smells gross. I'm tired. And

23:40

I just want to get to the cartoons that I

23:43

know come after dinner. And

23:45

so I just put

23:47

that in your path, folks. Like maybe

23:49

lunch is the time to try more

23:52

new things. Oh, that's interesting.

23:54

And also I was thinking lunches, sandwiches

23:56

and carrot sticks, but dinner, again, we

23:59

like code these. things, right? Lunch

24:01

can be little bite-sized things, bread

24:03

with anything on it counts as

24:05

lunch but dinner has to be a

24:07

meat with some kind of gravy on it

24:09

and a vegetable and it's also where we're

24:11

more likely to innovate and try

24:13

new and different things because I don't want

24:16

to eat the same thing every day and

24:18

my spouse doesn't so we try to mix

24:20

things up and neophobia is one word they

24:22

use to describe these kids for whom like

24:25

a new food is deeply, upsetting

24:28

unfamiliarity around food and

24:30

dinner is the time where that neophobia is most likely

24:33

to rear its head. Don't you think you the same

24:35

thing for breakfast every day? They can have the same

24:37

thing for lunch every day. I don't care but dinner

24:39

like you said mustard chicken. Right.

24:41

Breakfast is basically eight moving parts, right?

24:43

Like pancakes, waffles, French shows, I

24:45

mean we're in the US like bacon

24:48

or sausage and then like strawberries or

24:50

oranges or apples like. Right. That's

24:53

right. The moving pieces. And picky eaters

24:55

like breakfast because it's like it's the same.

24:57

It's predictable. A lot of it is prepared

24:59

foods like pre-prepared foods which are

25:02

consistent. You know what a bowl of Cheerio is going to

25:04

taste like? Even what a blueberry is going to taste like kind of.

25:06

And people have different preferences at breakfast too, right?

25:08

Like you know I am a toast and

25:11

peanut butter. That's my breakfast every day.

25:13

Like I like my same little breakfast. I

25:15

don't wake up looking for innovation. I like

25:17

my bread. I'm a peanut butter on it.

25:19

That's what I like. And so it's

25:22

not that these are rules that like kids

25:24

are ready at breakfast but you

25:27

are waking up so hungry at time of day.

25:29

Like there's reasons why you know. And

25:31

I think that people have gotten the story of like well

25:33

kids used to do what they were served. It's like right

25:35

but a lot of things have actually changed.

25:37

I mean you know kids

25:40

maybe are not as active or

25:42

they're on different schedules. Like there

25:44

are reasons why maybe if you

25:46

were like working on the

25:48

farm all morning you sat down to one meal

25:50

a day and you just went to town on

25:52

whatever it was. I don't

25:55

know but I think that starting

25:57

with like you clean your place.

26:00

at dinner, there's a lot of things getting

26:02

in your way there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

26:05

That makes sense. So dinner is the place where

26:07

you're most likely to introduce new foods and also

26:09

so that's another reason, right? Your picky eater is

26:11

going to have a hard time. I don't

26:13

think that that means necessarily that, okay, so you

26:15

have the same three foods that are safe. I

26:17

think I got into a little bit of a

26:19

trap with my two kids when they were little

26:21

because my picky eater would only eat chicken

26:23

nuggets and you know microwaves, frozen broccoli and

26:26

then I would eat something else

26:28

with my spouse and he came home from work and so

26:30

I kind of turned into like that's what's for dinner and

26:32

then all of a sudden when I was introducing something else,

26:34

there was whaling and gnashing of

26:36

teeth. If you want to,

26:38

yes, same. And that's how I grew

26:40

up. I had, we had kids dinner and

26:43

then my mom and dad ate when my dad came

26:45

home from work, like a nice dinner. And you want the

26:47

kids to eat. It definitely leads to some issues. Yeah, you

26:49

want the kids to eat so you give them the two

26:51

or three things they eat and then they'll eat two or

26:53

three things. So what I'm thinking back to this first

26:56

episode ever, I remember from this episode

26:58

that you had used Pillsbury Crescent Rolls

27:00

as the constant that your picky eater,

27:03

you know, didn't know what awaited them

27:05

on the dinner table. Might be mustard

27:07

chicken but they're also going to be Pillsbury

27:09

Crescent Rolls and there was the sort of sameness

27:12

of one thing and then you could introduce different

27:14

things around it. This was a solution that

27:16

worked phenomenally for me. Your

27:19

food with unfamiliar food that

27:22

like you never go from

27:24

like it's Pillsbury Crescent

27:26

Rolls, chicken nuggets and broccoli

27:28

to mustard chicken, you

27:31

know, ramps and

27:33

you know, some sort of pop over. This

27:35

is what I was like, you don't do

27:37

it. You can't make that hard lift on

27:39

a kid. And that's right.

27:41

I think they call this chaining, food

27:43

chaining that like you start to

27:45

introduce and build stuff

27:48

out. And for

27:50

us, that worked really, really well that

27:52

a kid who came to the table

27:55

knowing whatever else happens, I could just

27:57

eat a Pillsbury Roll.

27:59

and I will not

28:02

be hungry and miserable and then

28:04

I could just leave the

28:06

table or I could maybe try

28:08

some of the other stuff but like I'm

28:11

looking for my familiar things

28:14

and I will say that I

28:16

don't know if this is the greatest idea my kids

28:18

sometimes kind of approach this like but I do think

28:20

there's a little bit of a skill in like you

28:23

can find something to eat on that table and

28:26

like put a small servant I don't eat

28:28

salmon it's a very common food people serve

28:30

it everywhere I don't like it mm-hmm I

28:32

don't like it either you don't like salmon

28:34

I hate it if I'm like out of it like a

28:36

dinner kind of thing and they serve salmon I mean it's

28:39

somebody else's house I'll just eat it but if I'm in

28:41

a restaurant or something I'm like I'm sorry I'm vegetarian

28:43

I don't know because I'll have any old

28:45

mushy pasta than salmon yeah anything but

28:47

salmon so funny I don't know if

28:49

we've discussed that salmon is gross so

28:52

I know if I go to a dinner party

28:54

like if I came to your house for dinner

28:57

it's two couples right like you're like I've

28:59

made my delicious salmon my heart sinks

29:01

and I'm like I am hopefully you've

29:03

called me beforehand been like is there anything I don't eat and

29:05

I'm like salmon and peas are the two things we don't want

29:07

on the table but I have it so now

29:09

it's time to eat the salmon I

29:12

take a small serving of salmon and then

29:14

I load up on the sides like that's

29:16

still how I eat with stuff I don't

29:18

like so I think and this

29:20

leads me into my next big revelation and

29:22

we're gonna we got some I

29:24

think some really solid solutions in part three we're gonna

29:26

be right back more and more

29:29

you hear about the importance of

29:31

electrolytes as part of staying hydrated

29:33

because you need the sodium and

29:35

the potassium not just the water

29:37

whether you're looking to hydrate during

29:39

a workout while traveling or at

29:41

the end of a long night

29:43

sports research hydrate electrolytes have got

29:45

you covered with over 65 trace

29:47

minerals seven essential vitamins and coconut

29:49

water powder crisp and refreshing and

29:51

without any sugar this is hydration

29:53

powered by sports research they're little packets

29:55

you can just grab and take with you

29:57

to mix into your water bottle on the

30:00

go. My favorite flavor so

30:02

far Amy? Got to be the cherry

30:04

pomegranate. Interesting. My high schooler

30:06

likes the lemon lime and she keeps a few

30:08

handy in her backpack for days that she has

30:10

practiced after school. These electrolytes have the sodium and

30:12

the potassium that you need to go with it

30:14

in the optimal ratio for daily hydration.

30:17

Visit sportsresearch.com and use code

30:20

WHATFRESH at checkout for 50%

30:23

off your purchase

30:25

of hydrate. That's

30:28

sportsresearch, S-P-O-R-T-S-R-E-S-E-A-R-C-H sportsresearch.com

30:30

and use code

30:33

WHATFRESH for 50%

30:36

off your hydrate electrolytes order.

30:38

Amy, you know me well

30:40

enough to know that my

30:42

daily power breakfast is toast

30:44

with peanut butter on top. Toast with peanut butter.

30:46

It's also by the way one of my favorite

30:49

power breakfast. We agree on that thing. We were

30:51

recently together and we shared some toast with peanut

30:53

butter and I'm going to tell you we use

30:55

hero bread. It adds even

30:58

more protein and fiber to that combo

31:00

without adding any more sugar. Hero

31:03

bread has remade the carb-y empty

31:05

calorie bread products into versions that

31:07

include no net carbs, zero gram

31:09

sugar and fewer calories plus more

31:11

protein and fiber while still being

31:13

super fluffy and delicious. I was

31:16

not sure that that particular combination

31:18

was going to be possible but

31:20

hero bread has figured it out.

31:23

This is one I'm glad they let us try.

31:25

It's like it really tastes good. I've been trying

31:27

to add more protein to my diet and I

31:29

would have thought that a hamburger rolls was not

31:31

the place to do that, Amy. But

31:34

all of hero bread's products from

31:36

rolls to tortillas to croissants, we

31:38

please offer protein and fiber

31:40

zero to one grams of net carbs

31:43

and zero grams of sugar. Start

31:45

your hero bread bundle on their website

31:48

and get 10% off your order. Go

31:50

to hero.co and use the code motherhood

31:52

at checkout. I like this bread, people.

31:55

It's HERO.C-O and

31:58

code motherhood. for 10% off

32:01

your order of hero bread. If

32:06

you like food TV you'll just

32:08

love Food TV Junior

32:11

offering a range of programming that

32:13

covers the topics kids care about

32:15

most. Tune in tonight when

32:17

our programming kicks off with Why

32:20

Are These Foods Touching? I'm

32:23

not in anything. Why are these

32:26

foods touching? If you make me eat

32:28

this I will cry. At 7.30 we

32:30

bring you our beloved classic That Looks

32:32

Weird. Are

32:38

you trying to torture me?

32:40

Immediately followed by back-to-back episodes

32:43

of all sorts of chicken nuggets.

32:45

Yeah, chicken nuggets! And don't forget

32:47

to tune in Saturday for an

32:49

all-day marathon of That's Not

32:52

How Liam's Mom Makes It. She doesn't

32:54

make that weird brown part I thought.

32:56

That looks really gross. Not

32:59

gonna eat that. Food TV

33:01

Junior. Where kids come

33:03

to eat. That smells like

33:05

Vanna. Did I just have a

33:07

sandwich instead? So

33:12

you were talking about my familiar foods. Very

33:15

helpful. Big point. I'm not going to dial

33:17

down on it because if you've listened to

33:19

the podcast all you already know it. Big

33:21

fan of the whiteboard where you lay out

33:23

especially for kids who are anxious. Here's

33:26

what's for dinner every night and

33:28

here's what's happening every night.

33:31

Wednesday dad leaves town. Friday

33:33

dad is back. Mom goes out

33:35

to dinner with like for kids as soon as

33:38

they can read you can do this with pictures

33:40

when they're littler. I think it's

33:42

super helpful to give kids a

33:44

lot of information because Sarah

33:46

Ulcher did this. Remember Mighty and Bright is her company.

33:48

We had her as a guest a fresh take and

33:51

she was talking about this in terms of kids if

33:53

it's divorced parents and they're going back and forth from

33:55

home to home. The most important thing for a kid

33:57

is to be able to see a visual representation

33:59

of Here's how today's going to go. So

34:01

it totally makes sense that that happens for food too.

34:03

Right. And think about it. Like

34:05

being a kid is really hard. I mean, my

34:08

sister in law, I remember, pointed this out to me

34:10

at some point. Like school is

34:12

like, okay, it's art time. Are you enjoying

34:14

art? Stop art. It's math time. You

34:17

hate math, but you have to do it for an hour. Okay,

34:19

now stop it. Now kickball. And you're like,

34:21

what the heck? Like if someone made you

34:23

live your life like that every day, it

34:25

would be torture. And

34:27

I think like, right, that we forget that

34:31

like, oh, come on, we're going, jump in the

34:33

car. Where are we going? Like

34:35

the kid is just constantly at the mercy of your whims and

34:37

then shows up to dinner and it's like,

34:39

I don't know what this weird food is. I don't know if I

34:41

want to eat it. Well, that's what's for dinner. And that's not if

34:43

my spouse and I are home alone. What do you feel like? What

34:46

are you in the mood for? You know? So first

34:48

thing I started doing that really helped is a lot

34:50

of like, and it sounds like a

34:52

lot of work. And please know that I'm

34:54

not talking about like Pinterest board versions of this. A

34:58

lot of like, make your own, add

35:00

your own. So it's a burger night.

35:02

There's like cheese, bacon. There's like four

35:04

things that could go on the burger

35:06

and then it's taco night. And

35:08

so it's like you can just have plain ground beef

35:10

with rice or you can have

35:12

rice and beans or you can have, you

35:15

can make your own version. And I do

35:17

think that giving kids some control over the

35:19

choices they make is helpful. And

35:22

one thing that unlocks this for me and it

35:24

never occurred to me is letting kids

35:26

serve themselves at the table too. That

35:28

like I had gotten very used to like, here's your segmented

35:30

plate and I give you this much of this and this

35:32

much of this and this much of this. Once

35:35

we started passing food, I feel like the

35:37

kids just had a lot more control. Like,

35:39

oh, I can take a little bit of

35:42

salmon and a lot of roll and

35:44

three pieces of broccoli. Like that's

35:46

my comfort level with this food.

35:49

And that I found until my kids were eight or

35:51

nine, again, like you said, like just

35:53

out of habit, just out of shortcut. I was

35:55

like, okay, I know you don't like this. I'll

35:58

give you a little piece. I was making. all

36:00

of those decisions and it was getting in the

36:02

way of their like growth in relationship with food.

36:05

I love that make your own idea because then these kids

36:07

again for whom new foods are a little distressing,

36:10

they can see the chickpeas in the table

36:12

and they may be like, chickpeas gross and

36:14

you say, oh, I think they're delicious. I especially

36:16

like them when I cook them in the oven

36:18

and they're crunchy, they you're exposing them to them

36:20

in a very, they're not on their plate, but

36:23

they're in the room and they see somebody else

36:25

enjoying them and then maybe two weeks later they

36:27

see you enjoying them again. Like it's a

36:29

good way to introduce more foods into

36:31

their awareness in a low pressure way.

36:33

Yeah. And I do think that the

36:35

action of like, I'm going to reach over and

36:37

try that versus like, I put that on

36:40

your plate and there will be no brownie

36:42

until you eat it. It's just a completely

36:44

different kind of interaction and something I

36:47

think that kids can start doing very, very

36:49

early. And

36:52

then, you know, table culture, we talked a lot

36:54

about in this episode and the only thing I

36:56

want to say about table culture is

36:59

we don't talk about the food at my dinner table. My

37:01

sister-in-law gave me this rule. We talk about anything

37:03

but the food. You like it,

37:05

you don't like it, you eat it, you don't eat it.

37:08

Think about hunger. Like maybe a kid's not

37:10

eating because they're not hungry. And

37:12

then now that my kids are teenagers,

37:14

we're doing another reset around, oh wait,

37:17

we don't do, I'm not hungry at dinner and then I'm

37:19

going to eat 36 Oreos and make 47 trips to the

37:23

fridge to eat nonsense. That's not allowed. That's

37:25

not a good idea at night. Turns

37:27

out, no, it's not great

37:29

because I still get a lot of like, well,

37:32

I'm not hungry at dinner but suddenly

37:34

at 9, I'm eating a bowl

37:36

of something, you know. And

37:39

it's, you have to let kids make their

37:41

own choices to a certain degree but parameters

37:43

around it make sense. And

37:46

what about dessert? Do you offer dessert

37:48

regularly in your house? I will say

37:50

my kids are now in an age

37:52

that they get their own desserts. And

37:55

I was just having this conversation this week with

37:57

my husband. We're just a little bit. We

38:00

need a back to one at our house. We're out of

38:02

control with a lot of things. It's like I've

38:04

been sick and traveling and he's been

38:06

traveling and like just like the piles

38:08

of chaos are everywhere and they're like,

38:10

let's just get taken because we're lazy

38:12

is every night and the

38:15

let's stop at the corner store for dessert

38:17

on the way home from the sport,

38:20

the concert, the lesson has become

38:22

this weird default also and everybody. And

38:24

so I think it's time for a

38:26

back to one around like just kind

38:29

of dessert as food,

38:31

you know? And I

38:33

think one of the things that I looked

38:35

up revisiting this episode is don't make dessert

38:37

a default and I was like, oh, that's

38:39

a smart idea. Like dessert happens sometimes. Sometimes

38:42

there's cookies on the table when you

38:44

get home from school, but there's no

38:47

like giant balance wheel in which like

38:49

this, then this food and dessert. It's

38:51

not a reward. It's not

38:53

a naughty, I deserve this. It's

38:56

just sometimes it's there and sometimes it isn't. Sometimes

38:58

it's there and sometimes it isn't and sometimes we

39:01

eat too much of it and you

39:04

know, one of my kids was, I

39:06

was thinking about people talking about, oh,

39:09

I was reading some article about, oh, they went to grandma's if

39:11

you fed them this and now we're all fighting because we

39:13

don't allow it. I'm kind

39:15

of team like there's never one day that

39:17

makes your nutritional profile. So like, I don't

39:20

care what they eat at grandma's house, but

39:22

at one point my kid went to

39:24

grandma's house and ate so much

39:26

ice cream and they don't have any kind of lactose

39:29

intolerance, but they ended up with like

39:31

really bad gastrointestinal bible. They were painful,

39:33

I would say. I will go into

39:35

details. Maybe some people are eating while

39:38

they listed this, but it kind

39:40

of taught them not to do that. I

39:42

mean, I think that this can all be a little

39:44

bit more light touch. The other thing

39:46

I did, do we talk about new food Wednesday already?

39:49

No, no, but I mean, we have ever, but you should talk about

39:51

it now. The other thing that I tend to do, and

39:54

I did love this and it worked out really well, someone gave

39:56

me this tip I stole it from someone, can't remember who, wish

39:58

I could credit you. New Food Wednesdays

40:01

so that we tried New Foods on Wednesdays and then

40:03

the rest of the week and then once it was

40:05

a New Food Wednesday, it could go into any slot

40:07

on the rest of the week. Right.

40:10

New Food Wednesday becomes regular Tuesday.

40:12

New Food Wednesday became regular Tuesday

40:14

and one of the things

40:16

that you talked about that I think is very

40:18

important is watching the labeling and like you said

40:20

the falling into. Oh, he doesn't like

40:23

peas. I'm never going to serve him peas. Oh,

40:25

he wouldn't want that. Oh,

40:27

he won't taste that. Always

40:30

offer. Just continually offer and I do

40:32

find now that my kids are tweens

40:34

and teens that they constantly surprise me

40:37

with, you know what I want to

40:39

try? I mean my kid who I didn't work that hard

40:41

on pretty much eats everything. Just

40:43

went on a trip with his aunt was

40:45

eating all sorts of crazy foods that I

40:47

would have never thought of and

40:49

I try not to comment on that either. Like oh my God,

40:52

you used to. You would have never tried that before. Just

40:54

kind of try to let the food

40:57

stuff be a stream that's passing by.

41:00

Every once in a while you may have to go into the stream

41:02

and do a rescue. That rescue being

41:04

like you have eaten 76 Oreos

41:06

and nothing else so we need to

41:08

do a reset around this but generally

41:10

just let it pass you by on the

41:12

stream. The

41:15

other hopeful story I will tell

41:17

Amy is that in this episode,

41:19

our New Food Wednesday that

41:22

I had just done was lasagna and

41:24

it went terribly but I was like it's only one day a

41:26

week and it's kind of the point of the thing. Everybody tried

41:28

it. Nobody will eat it now.

41:30

It's horrible. Everyone, they thought I was

41:32

trying to kill them making them eat lasagna and I

41:35

will say that my kid, my pickiest kid is now

41:37

basically Garfield. Like he only eats lasagna

41:39

and I was like be careful what

41:41

you wish for people. That's such a

41:43

good because like I went from a

41:45

non-lasagna eater to Garfield. Right, that's an

41:47

intense process but for food chaining lasagna,

41:49

like once your kid will eat noodles

41:51

with stuff in it. Like I

41:54

was thinking about food chaining is

41:56

like if your kid eats cheese ravioli then

41:58

maybe now they'll eat cheese and and

42:00

meat ravioli and they're eating ground

42:02

beef and now you can, that

42:04

you chain from familiar things become

42:07

or if you're kibalee crescent rolls, maybe

42:10

they'll have peanut butter on

42:12

crescent rolls and now they're gonna try almond butter. Okay,

42:14

now we have almond butter, now we can try this.

42:17

The lasagna is very. Yeah, and

42:19

also like a tortilla wrapped around

42:21

chicken is a chicken

42:24

sandwich, is a bao bun in

42:26

a Chinese restaurant. Right, right. And you can

42:28

really be like, this is what this is

42:30

and it's the same thing we say about

42:32

so many things. You're scaffolding rather than getting

42:34

in there and making something happen. You're

42:37

just like, oh, let's try it. Oh, I'll serve a

42:39

variety of things. Oh, this, oh, that, not like, if

42:42

I do not somehow get this pork chop into

42:44

this six year old's mouth, it

42:46

means everything is

42:49

lost. Not true, friends,

42:51

from the future, we're here to tell you,

42:53

not true. And I will say, before we

42:56

closed, it's not perfect at my house.

42:59

Kids who were the most sensory are still struggling

43:01

the most with this. As you

43:03

get older, different issues start to come

43:05

in around food, especially, you know, weight

43:07

and food issues. There's lots of stuff

43:09

down the road that's still gonna be

43:11

complicated and difficult. Set

43:14

that tone of like, what happens

43:16

at my table is joyful family

43:18

time and the food is secondary to it.

43:21

The food will come along, but

43:25

keep your pediatrician in the loop about this too.

43:27

Look it up, Google it.

43:30

Like, that's different than picky

43:32

eating. And so, don't

43:34

look to us for things that are medical

43:36

issues. Like, is your kid

43:38

gaining weight? Are they getting any nutrition? These

43:40

are questions you should be talking about

43:43

every year at your pediatrician's office. And

43:47

then from your comedy podcast, friends, you

43:49

should be getting the idea that like,

43:51

New Food Wednesday. We think you can

43:53

relax a little bit and maybe try New Food

43:55

Wednesday. Well, yeah, the relaxing, right, your anxiety will

43:57

not change anything in the...

44:00

increase the anxiety of your picky eater

44:02

who probably feels anxious around food and

44:04

that's why they're picky. They're not doing

44:06

it to get to you even though

44:08

it feels that way. Yes, for sure.

44:10

For sure. They're good inside.

44:12

They're hungry inside. Just like find it

44:14

together. Solved it. Solved it

44:16

for the second time maybe, let's be honest. Yes,

44:19

for the second time, right. Then and

44:21

now picky eaters, they aren't a problem anymore.

44:24

Do you follow us on YouTube? If

44:26

you go to youtube.com and search what

44:28

fresh out podcast or just click the

44:30

link in the show notes for this episode, you

44:32

can follow us on YouTube. We're trying to get

44:34

to a thousand subscribers on YouTube. Go

44:36

subscribe to us there. Even if you don't, you know, you don't

44:38

have to watch every video or anything. Just hit

44:40

subscribe, get us to a thousand subscribers so that

44:43

you're out there. You have to watch every video.

44:45

We have a bunch of our episodes on video.

44:47

You can watch us talking. You can see some

44:49

of our comedy shorts. You can see all sorts

44:51

of stuff we do. So follow us on YouTube.

44:54

So much fun to be had over on YouTube friends.

44:57

And with that, thanks for listening and we'll talk

44:59

to you next time. So long. If

45:11

you're a parent, I invite you to

45:13

join us at the Mindful Mama podcast

45:15

where it's all about becoming a less

45:17

irritable, more joyful kid. It's

45:19

sometimes hilarious and always thought provoking

45:21

experts and firms. Mindful Mama,

45:23

we know that you cannot give what you

45:25

do not have. And when you

45:27

have calm and peace within, then you can give it

45:30

to your children. I'm Hunter Clark

45:32

Fields and I can't wait to see you there. Welcome

45:35

to the Mindful Mama podcast. Blair

46:00

and Molly as two busy moms and

46:02

actors and somewhere between potty training and

46:04

the pandemic they both felt like they

46:06

lost their creative kaboom. In their new

46:08

podcast Unsticking It, they are going to

46:11

talk about how all of us can

46:13

get back to what lights us up

46:15

after motherhood. Amy, I need this. Me

46:17

too. And Blair and Molly will be

46:19

talking to fellow imaginative minds. We're

46:21

talking actors, artists, and creators of

46:23

all kinds about how we can

46:25

all unstick ourselves from whatever muck

46:28

we're stuck in. Follow, subscribe, and

46:30

listen to Unsticking It wherever you

46:32

get your podcasts. That's Unsticking It

46:35

with Blair and Molly because sometimes

46:37

life steps.